The Hidden Power of Emotion in Selling World-Class Wine; Thomas Sequy of Troplong Mondot

1
00:00:00,176 --> 00:00:03,686
I think for me, more than selling the bottles, you need to sell

2
00:00:03,718 --> 00:00:07,469
emotion. You need to sell a story behind. We have a story. We

3
00:00:07,469 --> 00:00:11,124
have things to say to our end consumer. And for me, this is the most

4
00:00:11,172 --> 00:00:14,602
important part. If you are selling a bottle just for a

5
00:00:14,602 --> 00:00:17,905
price, for prestige, let's say,

6
00:00:18,706 --> 00:00:22,441
forget it. This is definitely not very interesting. Sit back and

7
00:00:22,457 --> 00:00:26,112
grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul

8
00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:29,915
Kaye. Hey, welcome to Wine

9
00:00:29,915 --> 00:00:33,432
Talks with Paul Kaye, and we are in studio today, a beautiful October

10
00:00:34,042 --> 00:00:37,414
morning. We are going to have a conversation with Thomas Seguy.

11
00:00:37,703 --> 00:00:41,476
Great. How's that? Pretty good, huh? Yeah, that's pronounced well. Thank you. He's

12
00:00:41,476 --> 00:00:45,089
from Troplong Mondot on the Saint-Émilion side, the

13
00:00:45,089 --> 00:00:48,686
Right Bank of Bordeaux. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Paul. Thank you for hosting

14
00:00:48,718 --> 00:00:52,491
me today. You're making the tour, right? You're headed all over.

15
00:00:52,620 --> 00:00:56,220
United States. What are you doing? I'm starting by San Francisco. I

16
00:00:56,220 --> 00:00:59,340
just landed on last Sunday and I'm spending a few days

17
00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:02,680
here. I'm making a tour with Duclos, which is a great

18
00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,480
partner here for us in the US and worldwide,

19
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,980
I would say. Then I'm here in LA today and I'm going to New York

20
00:01:09,980 --> 00:01:13,140
tonight. How often do you leave Bordeaux and come

21
00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:16,940
to— Let's say around 90 days a year, roughly. Really?

22
00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:20,520
Wow. That's considerable. Yeah, yeah. We travel a lot because we feel

23
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,740
that for a winery like us, it's very important to be present on the market.

24
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,158
Markets. We are selling our wines. So that's why

25
00:01:28,303 --> 00:01:32,022
we are helping, first of all, our négociant. Perhaps you,

26
00:01:32,390 --> 00:01:35,933
you're, you're, uh, you know about the system of Bordeaux.

27
00:01:36,093 --> 00:01:39,780
It's a complex system, but very interesting too. And so we have these links

28
00:01:39,780 --> 00:01:43,595
between the négociants, between the importers we are working with, and

29
00:01:44,028 --> 00:01:47,635
quite often also with the final consumer, those people that we're going to meet

30
00:01:48,356 --> 00:01:52,139
during wine dinner, during sometimes masterclass. We

31
00:01:52,204 --> 00:01:56,051
also met many sommeliers, all the wine industry that

32
00:01:56,051 --> 00:01:59,294
we can touch in a country is important for us to

33
00:01:59,968 --> 00:02:03,662
visit and to speak about our wines. Listen, I don't think I've ever

34
00:02:03,662 --> 00:02:07,211
discussed this on the show. And because Bordeaux is such a unique

35
00:02:07,355 --> 00:02:10,904
part of the wine world, it's probably the most well-known part of the wine world.

36
00:02:11,466 --> 00:02:15,240
Let's discuss that distribution section for just a second because we're

37
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,596
gonna get into the marketability of wine, what's going on in the marketplace today.

38
00:02:19,158 --> 00:02:22,932
But Bordeaux, in its infancy, when it was young, and it

39
00:02:22,932 --> 00:02:26,592
still has this this distribution method, négociants

40
00:02:27,282 --> 00:02:30,813
were the main players for getting wine into the world from

41
00:02:30,813 --> 00:02:34,424
Bordeaux. In other words, the châteaux themselves were not

42
00:02:34,424 --> 00:02:38,196
responsible for distribution. Exactly. And it seems to be,

43
00:02:38,421 --> 00:02:42,208
you know, Duclos is a négociant, but now we have

44
00:02:42,208 --> 00:02:46,044
the 3-tier system in America and all the other ways of distributing wine in the

45
00:02:46,044 --> 00:02:49,399
world. Is it sort of a combination of all different things as far as

46
00:02:49,832 --> 00:02:52,301
What's happening today, négociants, distributors, and

47
00:02:52,397 --> 00:02:56,244
direct-to-consumer? What do you mean by

48
00:02:56,244 --> 00:02:59,995
that? Well, you have négociants like Duclos. Yes. But then you

49
00:02:59,995 --> 00:03:03,826
have distributors like Southern. Exactly. Yeah. Right? And then you

50
00:03:03,842 --> 00:03:06,904
also probably do direct-to-consumer or not? We don't do

51
00:03:06,904 --> 00:03:10,318
direct-to-consumer, except if we sell a few bottles

52
00:03:10,751 --> 00:03:14,454
to our boutique, because we also have an otorisme, which is a very

53
00:03:14,454 --> 00:03:18,285
important part of our activity. But it remains in a

54
00:03:18,285 --> 00:03:21,892
very, very small proportion, because it's just because for people, just

55
00:03:21,892 --> 00:03:25,727
coming to visit the wineries. But I would say 99% of the business

56
00:03:25,984 --> 00:03:29,802
will be through the négociant first. This is the first step. And then it goes

57
00:03:29,834 --> 00:03:33,364
to the importers. And then you mentioned the free trade system in the US, which

58
00:03:33,364 --> 00:03:36,797
is a particular system. But in another country, like, I don't know,

59
00:03:37,118 --> 00:03:40,872
UK, for example, you have importers that could sell directly

60
00:03:40,904 --> 00:03:44,097
to its own private customers or also distribution system.

61
00:03:44,610 --> 00:03:47,979
So each country is a bit different. That's interesting because There,

62
00:03:49,149 --> 00:03:52,836
I remember early on in the days when I started working in the wine

63
00:03:52,836 --> 00:03:56,394
trade, it would say négociants. I forgot the,

64
00:03:57,180 --> 00:04:00,995
this transition word, but élève, right? So that, that, that

65
00:04:01,268 --> 00:04:04,874
in the old school of négociants, they actually elevated the

66
00:04:04,874 --> 00:04:08,722
wines, either aged it further, they put it back in barrel. Yeah, it's true. Or

67
00:04:08,722 --> 00:04:12,008
whatever. Yeah. And I don't, that's not as much part of the process anymore. No,

68
00:04:12,104 --> 00:04:15,919
nowadays, because there is the en primeur system. So usually,

69
00:04:16,015 --> 00:04:19,818
usually at the origin of the négociant system, a winery was only focused on

70
00:04:19,867 --> 00:04:23,633
the production. So as part as the wine was ready

71
00:04:23,892 --> 00:04:27,432
to be sold on the market, the négociant, at that time, it was

72
00:04:27,464 --> 00:04:31,153
perhaps 100 years ago, the négociant was

73
00:04:31,267 --> 00:04:34,836
coming into the winery and say, I'm going to buy a proportion, a percentage of

74
00:04:34,836 --> 00:04:38,211
your wines, something that we call nowadays an

75
00:04:38,324 --> 00:04:41,965
allocation. And these wines at the origin were

76
00:04:42,372 --> 00:04:45,823
purchased as a juice. It was even not a bottle. And the

77
00:04:45,887 --> 00:04:49,416
négociant was aging his, as you mentioned, aging his wine in the Quai des

78
00:04:49,416 --> 00:04:52,850
Chartrons, for example. Yes. And then he was bottling the wines

79
00:04:53,668 --> 00:04:57,261
and resell it through the world, different markets.

80
00:04:57,534 --> 00:05:01,288
This is the origin. And then nowadays we are

81
00:05:01,304 --> 00:05:05,026
talking about distribution in bottles. So everything

82
00:05:05,074 --> 00:05:08,812
is bottled at the wineries. You have even the mention on the château, on

83
00:05:08,844 --> 00:05:12,340
the label, sorry, bottled at the winery, which is 100%

84
00:05:12,469 --> 00:05:15,333
nowadays of the business. And we have this

85
00:05:16,121 --> 00:05:19,950
system of en primeurs. So you put on the market a

86
00:05:19,966 --> 00:05:23,792
wine which is not yet ready. So it gives to the winery

87
00:05:23,824 --> 00:05:27,568
an advantage of cash flow to invest in

88
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,381
the next harvest. So, because at that time, back

89
00:05:31,784 --> 00:05:33,850
in the few decades ago, it was

90
00:05:35,415 --> 00:05:39,238
necessary for wineries to have enough cash flow to be able

91
00:05:39,254 --> 00:05:42,859
to finance a harvest. It's costly to have that. You have to finance the

92
00:05:42,859 --> 00:05:46,305
picker, you have to finance the barrel, which is very expensive, a barrel.

93
00:05:46,769 --> 00:05:50,391
But you don't buy 1 or 2 barrels. You need to buy, for wineries, 200,

94
00:05:50,455 --> 00:05:54,124
300 sometimes. It's very big volumes. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Hundreds.

95
00:05:54,301 --> 00:05:58,066
And imagine the cost of that. You have to finance your truck,

96
00:05:58,082 --> 00:06:01,832
you have to finance your— as I mentioned, the picker, you have to mention everything,

97
00:06:01,912 --> 00:06:05,422
your tanks, and the cost of production. So that was the origin.

98
00:06:06,416 --> 00:06:09,045
And then progressively also, it became

99
00:06:10,327 --> 00:06:13,838
really interesting because at the origin, you were mentioning,

100
00:06:14,672 --> 00:06:17,926
you were putting on this profile of

101
00:06:18,182 --> 00:06:21,645
business, en primeur, a lower price. So

102
00:06:21,661 --> 00:06:24,963
supposedly, at that time, you were buying the wines— Mm-hmm.

103
00:06:25,412 --> 00:06:28,795
Not yet available, but at a better price. And 2 years after,

104
00:06:29,244 --> 00:06:32,730
you were supposed to make a bit of return on investment.

105
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,990
I want to stop you there for a second. It's kind of interesting because we

106
00:06:34,990 --> 00:06:38,610
were talking about the Château Montelena briefly, and I was listening to a

107
00:06:38,610 --> 00:06:42,410
podcast with the president. They were in California. It's a little different. It's

108
00:06:42,410 --> 00:06:46,130
the New World. You've got more opportunities. You're not

109
00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:49,610
handcuffed by the traditions, which I'm not

110
00:06:49,610 --> 00:06:53,010
disparaging. I think I'm jealous of the traditions of the

111
00:06:53,010 --> 00:06:56,610
French, and the French are jealous of the opportunities in

112
00:06:56,610 --> 00:07:00,455
America. But so it's It's— the grass is always greener, right? But

113
00:07:00,632 --> 00:07:04,127
he was talking about the idea they still make Riesling at this very

114
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,024
well-known château in Napa, Northern Napa and Calistoga.

115
00:07:08,425 --> 00:07:11,568
And the reason they do that is because Riesling is a cash

116
00:07:12,194 --> 00:07:15,770
grape. You don't have to age it, you don't have to have barrels, you stainless

117
00:07:15,834 --> 00:07:19,314
steel ferment it, and in 3 months you're in the bottle on the street. And

118
00:07:19,314 --> 00:07:22,585
I, and I had never thought about that concept that the cash comes in. You

119
00:07:22,617 --> 00:07:26,089
can't do that in Bordeaux. No. So the en primeur system

120
00:07:26,701 --> 00:07:29,923
replaces that idea, or at least supplements that idea. But let me ask you this

121
00:07:29,923 --> 00:07:33,532
question. There's a lot of criticism of the

122
00:07:33,581 --> 00:07:37,383
wine trade right now. We, we've— we'll discuss, you know, the dip in sales

123
00:07:37,383 --> 00:07:40,554
and all the things going on with the generations, whether anybody really knows the answer.

124
00:07:40,619 --> 00:07:42,835
I don't know. Yeah. But, um,

125
00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:47,298
if we went from being the négociants-élèves, which

126
00:07:48,139 --> 00:07:51,932
was the main methodology for many, many types of

127
00:07:52,129 --> 00:07:55,925
districts of the world for for wine. And we're slowly making

128
00:07:55,957 --> 00:07:59,741
these changes. And that is a criticism of the wine trade,

129
00:07:59,789 --> 00:08:03,605
that we're too slow, that we don't react to the markets, that we're not

130
00:08:03,734 --> 00:08:07,213
consumer-driven. All the things that you can read about how bad we are.

131
00:08:07,694 --> 00:08:10,821
Do you agree with that? Do you think that some of these methodologies are still

132
00:08:10,869 --> 00:08:14,717
just too slow and old, or this is— the tradition is too important to

133
00:08:14,717 --> 00:08:18,373
give up? No, I think Bordeaux, talking about

134
00:08:18,389 --> 00:08:21,757
Bordeaux, but also a different region, but the We

135
00:08:21,838 --> 00:08:25,565
understand the consumer, but produce— changing, make a shift like

136
00:08:25,613 --> 00:08:29,404
we did in Troplong Mondot in the past vintage, it doesn't take 2 months.

137
00:08:29,645 --> 00:08:33,228
You can't say, okay, the consumer doesn't like anymore the way we do wines,

138
00:08:34,143 --> 00:08:37,983
we're going to change, and within, like, a year, everything will

139
00:08:38,063 --> 00:08:41,758
be on the line of what the end consumer is supposed to

140
00:08:41,774 --> 00:08:45,501
like. Wine is a long-term vision. You don't produce

141
00:08:45,630 --> 00:08:49,339
wine for, let's say, in

142
00:08:49,547 --> 00:08:52,962
the next semester or the next year. When you produce a bottle of Troplong Mondot,

143
00:08:53,010 --> 00:08:55,783
when we release a wine like a '22, '23 vintage,

144
00:08:56,761 --> 00:09:00,480
it's already nice to appreciate this wine. But consider that

145
00:09:00,624 --> 00:09:04,231
perhaps in 20, 40 years, the wine will be even more better.

146
00:09:04,375 --> 00:09:07,998
Mm-hmm. You will have emotion on this wine during a very

147
00:09:08,223 --> 00:09:11,140
long period. So perhaps

148
00:09:12,006 --> 00:09:15,805
the problem of distribution we are facing today, I'm thinking

149
00:09:15,853 --> 00:09:19,299
about the en primeur system, of course, the decrease of the

150
00:09:19,299 --> 00:09:22,859
consumption of the new generation is a mix

151
00:09:23,068 --> 00:09:26,836
of many things. But to be honest with you, in the past

152
00:09:26,836 --> 00:09:30,108
10 years, what we saw in Bordeaux is a big

153
00:09:30,348 --> 00:09:33,796
shift in terms of quality. We never drank better quality in

154
00:09:33,892 --> 00:09:37,613
Bordeaux. It never existed before. I agree with that. Yeah. I used to say

155
00:09:37,805 --> 00:09:41,478
Bordeaux nowadays is like the Silicon Valley of the wine. Because in Bordeaux,

156
00:09:42,055 --> 00:09:45,840
we, for sure, Bordeaux earned a lot of money in the past decades with China

157
00:09:45,856 --> 00:09:49,221
market was Pretty big market. But this money

158
00:09:49,926 --> 00:09:53,740
was reinvested, which is very important. There is— this is definitely a

159
00:09:53,772 --> 00:09:57,505
region in the world, which is perhaps the only one, where you can have

160
00:09:57,778 --> 00:10:01,511
an analysis of your wines within 2 hours. Mm-hmm. So this is

161
00:10:01,543 --> 00:10:05,357
crazy good for— and so you increase your quality. And nowadays,

162
00:10:05,469 --> 00:10:08,593
if you speak with winemakers, merchants,

163
00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:12,567
sommeliers, all the industry, they will tell you Bordeaux is producing

164
00:10:12,663 --> 00:10:16,395
the best value wine in the world. Stupid. I, I— it's

165
00:10:16,443 --> 00:10:19,951
funny you said that, and, and it's not— this

166
00:10:20,113 --> 00:10:23,870
relatively current— I mean, that's relatively new. You even

167
00:10:24,016 --> 00:10:27,439
on, on the other side of this wall where I tasted wine for 35 years,

168
00:10:28,967 --> 00:10:32,048
you know, I saw the evolution, right? Everything that came in the door on a

169
00:10:32,048 --> 00:10:35,743
Tuesday was an expression of the current time, and

170
00:10:35,824 --> 00:10:39,040
whether it was trying to be discounted to get it out because it wasn't working,

171
00:10:39,219 --> 00:10:42,366
even though it's good wine, but the idea was not— was failing, whatever they were

172
00:10:42,415 --> 00:10:46,202
trying to do, or It was just a sign of the things

173
00:10:46,234 --> 00:10:49,823
that were coming into America. And I have to say that currently, and I'm going

174
00:10:49,839 --> 00:10:52,478
to say in the last few years, 2 to 3 years,

175
00:10:53,664 --> 00:10:57,360
the expression of Bordeaux in general has been incredible. And the

176
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,991
pricing has been really quite fair. Yeah. And when you consider

177
00:11:02,298 --> 00:11:05,957
the Napa counterpart, there's no, in my opinion, there's no comparison. I

178
00:11:06,005 --> 00:11:09,519
shouldn't say this, but the value

179
00:11:09,665 --> 00:11:13,382
expression with the complexity And the quality of the

180
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:15,937
wines in even an entry-level Bordeaux

181
00:11:17,029 --> 00:11:20,725
compared to an entry-level Napa is superior.

182
00:11:20,982 --> 00:11:24,726
Yeah. Why is that happening? Because Bordeaux has—

183
00:11:25,866 --> 00:11:29,144
perhaps we forget that, but Bordeaux remained a value for money

184
00:11:29,176 --> 00:11:32,245
since the beginning of the history of Bordeaux,

185
00:11:32,952 --> 00:11:36,214
producing a beautiful Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon,

186
00:11:37,114 --> 00:11:40,744
or on the terroir of Fronsac, of Médoc, of

187
00:11:40,744 --> 00:11:44,373
Saint-Émilion, of course, at good price, fair price.

188
00:11:44,614 --> 00:11:48,099
It's still the case nowadays. We still have amazing

189
00:11:48,196 --> 00:11:51,312
value. Is it the same in the US? I don't have the real price in

190
00:11:51,344 --> 00:11:54,299
mind in the US, but in Bordeaux, when you go to a cellar,

191
00:11:54,957 --> 00:11:58,700
below €20, you will find amazing wines, amazing

192
00:11:58,812 --> 00:12:01,960
value. And sometimes it's even more interesting,

193
00:12:02,651 --> 00:12:06,425
wines which are aged you can purchase some '05

194
00:12:06,458 --> 00:12:10,176
vintage, '04, '02 vintage from a simple winery on

195
00:12:10,176 --> 00:12:13,684
the plateau of Saint-Émilion or in the Médoc side, which is

196
00:12:13,684 --> 00:12:17,324
still very nice to drink, to appreciate nowadays, below €20.

197
00:12:19,192 --> 00:12:21,946
I wonder if it has something to do with— and let's see if I can

198
00:12:21,946 --> 00:12:24,170
articulate this properly, but

199
00:12:25,879 --> 00:12:29,571
the idea of a second label was really just that for

200
00:12:29,603 --> 00:12:33,331
many, many, many, many years. just, this is the second label. And it

201
00:12:33,331 --> 00:12:37,080
was sort of an introduction. Yeah. And it was, it was a min— it

202
00:12:37,257 --> 00:12:40,910
was minimized a little bit, right? You know, this is not the best grapes we

203
00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:44,563
have. It's not the best parcels we have. Youngest vines usually. Yes. And it seems

204
00:12:44,563 --> 00:12:48,249
to have been a shift in Bordeaux that no longer is the

205
00:12:48,297 --> 00:12:52,062
second label to be second. It's to be a different

206
00:12:52,142 --> 00:12:55,828
brand, a, a brand that has a different expression, and that,

207
00:12:55,988 --> 00:12:59,738
that venting that brand has its own methodologies, its own

208
00:12:59,754 --> 00:13:03,521
reasons. Identity, sometimes terroir as well. Yeah. For

209
00:13:03,521 --> 00:13:06,535
Troplong Mondot, it's a bit different for Troplong Mondot and so Mondot.

210
00:13:07,032 --> 00:13:10,078
Mondot used to be a second wine at Troplong Mondot. We were

211
00:13:10,815 --> 00:13:13,188
producing Mondot inside of the same

212
00:13:13,701 --> 00:13:17,243
terroir plots area. But since, as I

213
00:13:17,243 --> 00:13:20,786
mentioned just before the beginning of this interview,

214
00:13:21,716 --> 00:13:25,322
we purchased 10 hectares next to, which is just, you cross the road and you

215
00:13:25,322 --> 00:13:28,737
have our terroir there. And those 10 hectares remain completely

216
00:13:29,490 --> 00:13:33,022
dedicated for Mondot. So we have a single estate. That's why nowadays we are not

217
00:13:33,022 --> 00:13:36,636
mentioning anymore the terms second wine. Right. It's a single

218
00:13:36,636 --> 00:13:40,378
estate with its own identity, the same philosophy of winemaking

219
00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:44,072
that we apply at Troplong Mondot. And so for us, yes,

220
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,348
it's an introduction, of course, and it's also something that

221
00:13:47,476 --> 00:13:50,737
helps us to show something which is more on the daily drinking wines.

222
00:13:51,395 --> 00:13:54,896
Very, as I mentioned as well, easy to

223
00:13:55,266 --> 00:13:58,622
understand for the end consumer with a beautiful, fresh aromatic

224
00:13:59,265 --> 00:14:03,010
and one of the most important points, drinkable on its youth, which is something

225
00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:06,270
we are looking more and more in Bordeaux, and not only on Mondeux, but as

226
00:14:06,270 --> 00:14:10,070
well on Troplong Mondot. I wonder if that's the thing. We'll talk about the generations

227
00:14:10,070 --> 00:14:13,730
now. But what about you? What, I mean, you went to business school? Yes.

228
00:14:13,730 --> 00:14:17,510
And you— In Bordeaux. Were you— well, I guess that would— Of course. I guess

229
00:14:17,510 --> 00:14:20,870
that would sort of teach you something about what's going on over there. But was

230
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:23,470
that what your plan was, was to get in the wine trade? Yeah, I think,

231
00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:27,290
oh, quite, quite early, I, I decide to, I had a few

232
00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:31,090
opportunities. I went to Africa. I was working for Jack Daniel's

233
00:14:31,090 --> 00:14:34,350
in Africa, which is really— yeah, I had this internship

234
00:14:34,350 --> 00:14:38,150
at the time. It was in 2010. What do they do with Jack? What

235
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:41,070
does Jack Daniel's do in Africa? Yeah, I don't know. There is a simple reason

236
00:14:41,070 --> 00:14:44,750
is that on the West Coast, French-speaking country like Ivory

237
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:47,870
Coast, and the exception was Ghana, was

238
00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:51,590
the distribution was made by a French big

239
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:55,430
company that we call Les Grands Chefs de France. And Les Grands

240
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:56,430
Chefs de France, they had this, this

241
00:14:59,469 --> 00:15:02,822
distribution. We call it a carte de distribution in French.

242
00:15:03,336 --> 00:15:06,641
And so I was sent like internship to follow

243
00:15:07,187 --> 00:15:10,845
the sales of the Jack Daniel's in Ivory

244
00:15:10,878 --> 00:15:14,664
Coast and then in Ghana. You'll see

245
00:15:14,713 --> 00:15:18,259
a Jack Daniel's truck. It's Southern, I think, that

246
00:15:18,339 --> 00:15:22,110
distributes now. I can't remember. But anyway, they have a new pitch. It's quite

247
00:15:22,110 --> 00:15:25,640
interesting because being a bourbon guy and

248
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,290
American whiskey is bourbon. It says not

249
00:15:29,290 --> 00:15:32,690
Scotch, not bourbon, Jack.

250
00:15:32,690 --> 00:15:36,510
Jack. Yeah, I remember that. Which is interesting. It's not

251
00:15:36,510 --> 00:15:40,090
grown, it's not made in the Bourbon District of America. It's not obviously not made

252
00:15:40,090 --> 00:15:43,550
in Scotland. And so it is an American whiskey. American

253
00:15:43,550 --> 00:15:47,130
whiskey. And so you got to sell this in Africa. I got to sell this.

254
00:15:47,170 --> 00:15:50,490
Yeah. Was interesting experience, the first one. And then I went

255
00:15:50,490 --> 00:15:54,330
through China. I was working in Hong Kong and Guangzhou, south side

256
00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:56,290
of China, which was the amazing experience for me because we were at

257
00:15:58,502 --> 00:16:01,676
at the top period, it was around 12, 13, in

258
00:16:01,692 --> 00:16:05,155
2013, 2012. And at that time, the

259
00:16:05,219 --> 00:16:08,489
business was very high. Everything was possible in this country.

260
00:16:09,403 --> 00:16:12,865
I used to say it's like being in the US in the '50s, you know,

261
00:16:12,929 --> 00:16:16,777
where everything was going up. The economy was in a crazy expansion. So

262
00:16:16,777 --> 00:16:20,351
it was interesting. And then I went back to France.

263
00:16:20,464 --> 00:16:23,958
I finished my study by a master's degree in the wine

264
00:16:24,006 --> 00:16:27,821
industry. And by that, I start working in

265
00:16:27,837 --> 00:16:31,306
wine as a merchant first during 5 6 years, mainly focused

266
00:16:31,933 --> 00:16:35,748
on the Asian markets. And I'm in Trois Le Mondes since nearly 3 years now.

267
00:16:36,537 --> 00:16:40,367
Okay, so that's an interesting question. Yeah. Because if you go

268
00:16:40,416 --> 00:16:44,034
to Harvard Business School, any kind of business school,

269
00:16:44,667 --> 00:16:48,494
I was a business school major. I tutored master's students at USC

270
00:16:49,142 --> 00:16:52,928
in my particular specialty that I liked. And

271
00:16:52,928 --> 00:16:56,732
then there's the book, like, What They Won't Teach You at Harvard Business School,

272
00:16:56,861 --> 00:17:00,536
right? Academia is different than the street. So when you got

273
00:17:00,569 --> 00:17:04,252
done with your degree, master's degree at business school,

274
00:17:04,285 --> 00:17:06,456
it's at Kedge, I guess. Yeah, yeah, it's Kedge.

275
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:12,487
Yeah. What struck you when you went onto the floor? There I am on the

276
00:17:12,487 --> 00:17:16,317
floor of my dad's store trying to sell some wine. What didn't they teach

277
00:17:16,413 --> 00:17:20,034
you? What part of that experience working the floor did you go, wait a

278
00:17:20,034 --> 00:17:23,591
minute, this is not exactly what I thought it was gonna be? Yeah.

279
00:17:24,647 --> 00:17:28,432
It's true that the academy is not really something that

280
00:17:28,432 --> 00:17:31,864
shows you what you mean, what you mentioned, the field. Yeah, the rue.

281
00:17:31,944 --> 00:17:35,617
Yeah, yeah, la rue, exactly. No, the good thing is,

282
00:17:35,794 --> 00:17:39,627
for me, the academy I have was— the interesting one

283
00:17:39,739 --> 00:17:42,546
was the mix we had between the

284
00:17:43,091 --> 00:17:46,508
scientist one regarding the wine. How do you produce wine? How do you—

285
00:17:46,636 --> 00:17:50,004
that's what— that was something which was the most

286
00:17:50,004 --> 00:17:52,971
important in this part. After,

287
00:17:54,157 --> 00:17:57,588
The studies regarding the law of the wines,

288
00:17:58,021 --> 00:18:01,852
the marketing of the wines, yeah, was not the best part

289
00:18:01,868 --> 00:18:05,378
of that. I agree. I agree. And you learn more, you learn more on the

290
00:18:05,378 --> 00:18:09,145
field. You learn how to make the good connection. You learn

291
00:18:09,145 --> 00:18:12,351
some— yeah, I think it's a— It's

292
00:18:13,185 --> 00:18:16,952
the most important. For instance, when I read LinkedIn now, and I've actually started to

293
00:18:17,032 --> 00:18:20,703
stay away from it because it's just a lot of jibber jabber. That's an

294
00:18:20,703 --> 00:18:24,123
American word, jibber jabber. Just talking.

295
00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:27,399
Yeah. And I keep thinking,

296
00:18:27,993 --> 00:18:31,092
half of these people, maybe more than half of these people, maybe all of them

297
00:18:31,461 --> 00:18:35,218
have never gone on the street, tried to sell a

298
00:18:35,234 --> 00:18:39,056
bottle of wine. It's all theory. Maybe some worked at a wine

299
00:18:39,152 --> 00:18:42,909
shop for a little bit, but they just have this opinion of what should

300
00:18:42,941 --> 00:18:46,699
be happening when they really don't understand what the objections

301
00:18:46,699 --> 00:18:49,627
are, what people are seeing, what they're talking about. you know, what it takes to

302
00:18:50,015 --> 00:18:53,328
hold that bottle of wine like in that picture and try and sell it. It's

303
00:18:53,328 --> 00:18:56,997
just a different thing. Which leads me to this. Here you are making your

304
00:18:57,110 --> 00:19:00,732
tours. I believe that this

305
00:19:00,780 --> 00:19:03,916
industry is going back to those types of experiences

306
00:19:04,838 --> 00:19:07,634
where if we're going to show— and I wrote this down—

307
00:19:08,959 --> 00:19:12,511
if we're going to try to explain to a consumer the

308
00:19:12,543 --> 00:19:16,019
emotion in that bottle, glass of wine, which you and I sense

309
00:19:16,019 --> 00:19:19,340
immediately, we need to just sit. Yeah.

310
00:19:20,190 --> 00:19:23,287
Just talk to them. Yeah, you need to. I think for me,

311
00:19:23,896 --> 00:19:27,650
more than selling the bottles, you need to sell emotion. You need to sell

312
00:19:28,052 --> 00:19:31,661
a story behind. And a winery, every winery, not only Troplong Mondot, of course,

313
00:19:32,062 --> 00:19:35,881
we have a story. We have things to say to our end consumer. And for

314
00:19:35,881 --> 00:19:39,570
me, this is the most important part. If you are selling a bottle just

315
00:19:39,843 --> 00:19:43,392
for a price, for prestige, let's say,

316
00:19:44,195 --> 00:19:47,985
forget. This is definitely not very interesting. However, if you sell

317
00:19:48,049 --> 00:19:51,727
a bottle of wine because it's not yet well known in the

318
00:19:51,727 --> 00:19:55,340
country, or you have a new label, like

319
00:19:55,662 --> 00:19:59,388
Mondeux is not new, but we try to— it's a new approach, what we say.

320
00:19:59,468 --> 00:20:03,114
And this is why I love my job at Troplong Mondot, is because we

321
00:20:03,146 --> 00:20:05,683
are showing nowadays a new approach of

322
00:20:06,277 --> 00:20:09,730
winemaking. There is a story behind, there is a

323
00:20:10,214 --> 00:20:13,814
We discuss about the fact that we have many activity on the winery. So there

324
00:20:13,846 --> 00:20:17,462
is many things. So more than selling a price, more than

325
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,408
selling a Merlot, a grapes variety wine,

326
00:20:21,537 --> 00:20:25,096
blah, blah, blah, we are selling emotion. We are selling what

327
00:20:25,628 --> 00:20:29,428
people expect in the wine. When you walk down the aisle at

328
00:20:29,428 --> 00:20:32,568
the market, and it leads to what you're saying,

329
00:20:33,276 --> 00:20:36,642
there's a label after label after label. And this is one of the things that

330
00:20:36,843 --> 00:20:40,129
that even after 35 years, the

331
00:20:40,194 --> 00:20:44,026
revelation or the thought I had at Wine Paris as I'm

332
00:20:44,122 --> 00:20:46,591
walking through Building 7, you know, it's the

333
00:20:46,607 --> 00:20:49,557
7,000th, you know, booth,

334
00:20:50,247 --> 00:20:53,389
right? All— let's just say for you and I,

335
00:20:53,999 --> 00:20:57,366
let's say the average booth has, you know, some have hundreds of wines, some have

336
00:20:57,366 --> 00:21:00,380
a dozen. Okay, let's say there's 50 to 100 wines

337
00:21:01,294 --> 00:21:04,789
per booth average. At least. Okay. Perhaps. Yeah. So let's say it's a million bottles.

338
00:21:05,959 --> 00:21:09,784
Yeah. Close to a million bottles. Is there any other product in the

339
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,098
world that you should go to a convention and all million

340
00:21:13,211 --> 00:21:16,411
bottles are striving for the same thing?

341
00:21:17,707 --> 00:21:21,452
On sale, off sale, bulk, you know? Yeah. That's it. That's it. Yeah.

342
00:21:21,516 --> 00:21:24,405
And you're standing next to the guy or the woman who's trying to compete against

343
00:21:24,405 --> 00:21:27,977
you for the same spot. And the guy that walks up and tastes wine, or

344
00:21:27,977 --> 00:21:30,984
the person who walks up and tastes wine, that you're competing for that same spot.

345
00:21:31,475 --> 00:21:34,357
But there's a certain amount of camaraderie to all of this. But the point I'm

346
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:38,090
making is, how do you differentiate yourself? It can only be

347
00:21:38,894 --> 00:21:42,589
in the story you're telling right now, in the emotion. Well,

348
00:21:42,814 --> 00:21:46,509
of course, that is a very big major

349
00:21:46,509 --> 00:21:50,331
point, but it's true also that we have to consider that Troplong Mondot is not

350
00:21:50,477 --> 00:21:53,753
entry-level wines. We are in a classification system as well.

351
00:21:55,256 --> 00:21:58,958
We are on the classification of Saint-Émilion. We are first growth. So you are

352
00:21:58,958 --> 00:22:02,580
not selling a first growth like that, like you could sell

353
00:22:03,124 --> 00:22:06,954
an entry-level. You mentioned the bulk. This is definitely not the same profile

354
00:22:06,954 --> 00:22:10,367
of sales. But in the middle of those

355
00:22:11,345 --> 00:22:14,934
large portfolios of fine wines that you could find in Bordeaux, in Burgundy, in

356
00:22:15,031 --> 00:22:18,748
Napa, you mentioned as well, or do you make a differentiation between

357
00:22:18,957 --> 00:22:22,674
all those big names, all those big fine wines, which are

358
00:22:22,802 --> 00:22:25,611
all great reputation? So you have

359
00:22:26,675 --> 00:22:30,319
to be, yeah, on the— So you

360
00:22:30,319 --> 00:22:33,673
said something important, the

361
00:22:33,673 --> 00:22:37,263
classification system, which just changed with Santomyon, and some of the big

362
00:22:37,312 --> 00:22:40,553
players exited because they didn't want to deal with it. And so

363
00:22:43,148 --> 00:22:46,647
in Armenia, for instance, where I spent a lot of time, I'm going out there

364
00:22:46,727 --> 00:22:50,430
to do a couple of shows, they

365
00:22:50,494 --> 00:22:54,331
could never ever get together as a group and come up with the idea

366
00:22:54,331 --> 00:22:57,560
of a classification It's not in their DNA to do that.

367
00:22:58,430 --> 00:23:01,350
And so is the classification

368
00:23:01,350 --> 00:23:04,890
system— because a lot of people, now they don't poo-poo it, but they sort of

369
00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:08,110
look at the 1855 classification of the Left Bank and go, yeah, well, you know,

370
00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:11,150
they did this thing and it doesn't even include the vineyard. It really is just

371
00:23:11,150 --> 00:23:14,970
the château. And, you know, you can poke holes in it all day long.

372
00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:18,630
And the Saint-Émilion system seems to be— or the Right Bank system seems to be

373
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:22,390
a little more precise, a little more regulated. But is it an attempt

374
00:23:23,318 --> 00:23:27,123
to give the consumer some confidence, or is it

375
00:23:27,123 --> 00:23:30,655
a marketing attempt so that people say, oh, they're part of the Grand Cru Classé,

376
00:23:31,425 --> 00:23:35,262
or is it kind of like the point system where I don't know how much

377
00:23:35,615 --> 00:23:39,356
impact it has anymore? The impact of the Saint-Émilion classification is

378
00:23:39,468 --> 00:23:43,305
definitely not the same as it is on the 1855s you mentioned, which

379
00:23:43,305 --> 00:23:46,949
is fixed classification. You will never be able to be

380
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,518
going or— Unless you're

381
00:23:49,518 --> 00:23:53,337
1973 and you're Mouton. You know the motto of Mouton. No,

382
00:23:53,674 --> 00:23:57,361
Mouton I was, first,

383
00:23:58,098 --> 00:24:01,464
second I was, first I am, Mouton I remain,

384
00:24:01,913 --> 00:24:05,536
which is great. I like that. Yeah, that's great. And except

385
00:24:05,536 --> 00:24:08,373
that, of course, but back to Saint-Émilion,

386
00:24:08,822 --> 00:24:12,589
Saint-Émilion classification was just created just after the Second

387
00:24:12,589 --> 00:24:16,405
World War in the 1950s. They did the classification and every

388
00:24:16,437 --> 00:24:19,979
10 years you go back, let's say, to school and you have an

389
00:24:19,979 --> 00:24:23,698
examination of the past 10 vintage, but not only your vintage,

390
00:24:24,051 --> 00:24:27,422
also the ratings, also how you can welcome people into your

391
00:24:27,422 --> 00:24:30,987
wineries. So there is a different examination,

392
00:24:31,677 --> 00:24:35,322
different parts of that is examined. And at the

393
00:24:35,370 --> 00:24:39,079
end, you stay, you go up, or you go

394
00:24:39,127 --> 00:24:42,868
down. And so it makes, at the

395
00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:46,577
end, the entrance of Angelus in

396
00:24:46,593 --> 00:24:49,146
'12, the exit of

397
00:24:49,885 --> 00:24:53,578
Cheval, then Cheval and Ozone together, then Angelus,

398
00:24:54,075 --> 00:24:57,832
create a kind of— A triangle. misunderstanding for the Henne country

399
00:24:58,234 --> 00:25:01,958
and Figeac. So, yeah. So that's interesting to know.

400
00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:05,426
It's not easy. It's not easy. It's not very collective, I would say. We need

401
00:25:05,474 --> 00:25:08,798
more collective to be all together. But I

402
00:25:08,846 --> 00:25:12,683
understand that those, the departure of those great châteaux was based on the

403
00:25:12,683 --> 00:25:16,407
fact that the classification started to include hospitality and other things, which

404
00:25:16,552 --> 00:25:20,245
I'm not judging. I'm just, you know, calling out that that's what

405
00:25:20,309 --> 00:25:24,146
they're doing versus you know, the older classification.

406
00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:27,743
And how does the consumer even know?

407
00:25:27,967 --> 00:25:30,842
Like, I see Grand Cru Classé on here. Yeah.

408
00:25:31,805 --> 00:25:35,145
What does the group do for the consumer to

409
00:25:35,161 --> 00:25:38,902
understand what the Centennial classification means? Because it does have more

410
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:42,724
granular meaning than the 1855. Yeah. Because it

411
00:25:42,724 --> 00:25:46,384
comes with regulations, you know, that are, that are dynamic, hopefully

412
00:25:46,497 --> 00:25:50,125
dynamic, because the consumer's changing. Yeah.

413
00:25:50,832 --> 00:25:54,669
But there is, except few tastings that we

414
00:25:54,669 --> 00:25:58,346
are doing, La Jurade, when you taste the wines

415
00:25:58,442 --> 00:26:02,039
from each winery in the classification, there is

416
00:26:02,135 --> 00:26:05,860
no real promotion, collective promotion altogether. The

417
00:26:05,908 --> 00:26:09,055
classification, it's more, I will say, a

418
00:26:09,761 --> 00:26:13,358
kind of administration

419
00:26:13,454 --> 00:26:16,820
stuff that Okay, where I am, I am in Saint-Émilion. For the

420
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:20,520
consumer, I try to— it's not easy. I agree with you. I

421
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,280
am in Saint-Émilion. So do I want to drink a

422
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,240
classified grow? If it's classified, you have the classified, simple

423
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,900
classified, or the first grow A or B. We are part

424
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:34,680
of B. So it's truly a bit difficult. I

425
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,420
don't think the public understands this. No, it's not easy. But go to Burgundy

426
00:26:38,420 --> 00:26:41,920
as well. It's difficult for the end consumer. Oh, do you Corton Premier

427
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,880
Cru? First, I mean, it's difficult, definitely.

428
00:26:45,836 --> 00:26:49,612
difficult. So, you know, it's interesting too, because these are

429
00:26:49,612 --> 00:26:53,227
gorgeous wines. And certainly you and I know, doing this all the

430
00:26:53,227 --> 00:26:56,377
time, having done it for many years, that the price

431
00:26:56,377 --> 00:26:59,912
point sometimes has nothing to do with the quality or the value.

432
00:27:00,474 --> 00:27:03,206
Sometimes the price point can be very good and the value can be very high

433
00:27:03,527 --> 00:27:07,271
as well. And I have, you know, my current list of

434
00:27:07,367 --> 00:27:10,806
clients that I deal with are mostly collectors, all collectors really.

435
00:27:11,465 --> 00:27:14,843
And some collectors that really study, you know, they

436
00:27:14,940 --> 00:27:18,458
understand this. They understand, yeah. They look at it, they understand that they want to

437
00:27:18,458 --> 00:27:22,291
taste, they want to know more. Clarice has been the benefactor

438
00:27:22,291 --> 00:27:25,923
of all this in recent days. And then I have other

439
00:27:25,923 --> 00:27:29,281
collectors that only collected because they don't really

440
00:27:29,313 --> 00:27:32,400
understand. I'm hoping they want to understand, but they just go by

441
00:27:33,176 --> 00:27:36,426
l'étiquette, right? They just go by the label. Yeah, they both do. To see what

442
00:27:36,426 --> 00:27:39,911
they have. And that's kind of interesting. Yeah. And I think our job,

443
00:27:39,976 --> 00:27:43,650
and this podcast is about for the consumer side, is to move

444
00:27:43,779 --> 00:27:47,618
them along from the supermarket wine, from the same old

445
00:27:47,683 --> 00:27:51,093
Josh and Apothic Red and all the other things that are out there,

446
00:27:52,260 --> 00:27:55,339
and teach them the emotion of

447
00:27:56,343 --> 00:28:00,038
an honest glass of wine. And it seems that the only thing you

448
00:28:00,054 --> 00:28:03,658
can really do, and we just did it the other day for Château

449
00:28:03,790 --> 00:28:06,761
Bailly at a my niece's house. We put on a dinner

450
00:28:06,761 --> 00:28:10,568
and I thought this was, I

451
00:28:10,654 --> 00:28:14,333
just, I found it fascinating. It's such an organic

452
00:28:14,707 --> 00:28:17,535
old school approach. Sit down,

453
00:28:18,623 --> 00:28:22,408
here's what's in your glass. You, the internet's not gonna

454
00:28:22,408 --> 00:28:26,230
help you here. No. Digital marketing's not gonna help you here. The

455
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:29,566
metric, you know, return on ad spend's not gonna work here.

456
00:28:29,777 --> 00:28:32,773
You've got to just understand the wines. Understand, or

457
00:28:34,177 --> 00:28:37,985
trust your own emotion also. It's— I

458
00:28:37,985 --> 00:28:41,664
don't know if you remember your first good glasses of wine. I still

459
00:28:41,664 --> 00:28:44,690
remember that. And for me, it was just a pure emotion.

460
00:28:45,303 --> 00:28:48,869
So— It does. It hits you. Yeah, of course. And I

461
00:28:48,917 --> 00:28:52,080
think if you talk about your private collectors,

462
00:28:52,854 --> 00:28:56,090
ask them how they enter in the wine. Why did they enter? Except the fact

463
00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:59,906
that you— because it's

464
00:28:59,938 --> 00:29:03,611
trendy to have a beautiful cellar, blah, blah, blah. Except that. It gives

465
00:29:03,707 --> 00:29:07,235
you an emotion, you know? And this is the most important part.

466
00:29:07,732 --> 00:29:11,404
Sharing a bottle with your good friends, best friends, collectors like

467
00:29:11,404 --> 00:29:14,644
you, sharing the same passion. Oh, I sourced an

468
00:29:14,852 --> 00:29:18,172
amazing Troplong Mondot '85. I purchased that.

469
00:29:18,637 --> 00:29:21,972
Next week, what do you do? We're going to open it together. And you're going

470
00:29:21,972 --> 00:29:25,773
to share that. You will never open the best bottle

471
00:29:25,773 --> 00:29:29,429
in your mind alone. Of course. Yeah, of course. You will never have that. No.

472
00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:32,889
No, you will— if, let's say, you have the opportunity to drink the

473
00:29:33,827 --> 00:29:37,643
best bottles you wish, and you will never do

474
00:29:37,643 --> 00:29:40,824
it alone. You will call your best friend, your wife, your children, I don't know,

475
00:29:40,857 --> 00:29:44,035
the person you think is the best to share the wine. And this is why

476
00:29:44,309 --> 00:29:47,956
wine is crazy for that. I wonder if that

477
00:29:47,956 --> 00:29:51,195
conversation is a better conversation to have

478
00:29:51,904 --> 00:29:55,722
with a sommelier or with a restaurateur or with a store owner

479
00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:59,000
about the emotion rather than

480
00:30:00,165 --> 00:30:03,288
the ingredients. Instead of saying this is

481
00:30:03,547 --> 00:30:06,814
60% Merlot and 40% Cabernet Franc, that we talk about

482
00:30:08,074 --> 00:30:11,320
how this makes you feel when you taste it and when you have this honest

483
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,581
glass of wine. Because that's why I call them the honest glass of wine, which

484
00:30:13,581 --> 00:30:16,991
is really unadulterated, not meant to be the same every

485
00:30:16,991 --> 00:30:20,808
vintage, reflect the vintage. In my

486
00:30:21,163 --> 00:30:24,445
definition, which I've got some agreement on, which is there's no such thing as a

487
00:30:24,578 --> 00:30:27,917
If wines like Troplong Mondot

488
00:30:29,578 --> 00:30:32,998
are honest, there's no such thing as a bad vintage.

489
00:30:33,321 --> 00:30:36,726
No. Because if the definition of the vintage is to represent

490
00:30:37,808 --> 00:30:40,907
the terroir at the moment, the time it was picked and made,

491
00:30:42,672 --> 00:30:46,478
then that's— if it does that job, then it's a success. Of course.

492
00:30:46,623 --> 00:30:50,139
Yeah. It may taste different. It tastes different for me. Yeah, of course.

493
00:30:51,217 --> 00:30:55,051
What is Bordeaux doing in regards to research

494
00:30:55,083 --> 00:30:58,933
to understand? I've had people sit in that chair that

495
00:30:58,933 --> 00:31:02,590
you're sitting in who have brought canned wines to the market, who have

496
00:31:02,686 --> 00:31:05,798
brought 375s to the market, calling them

497
00:31:06,472 --> 00:31:09,568
quality wines in a small format. And the wines aren't quality.

498
00:31:10,242 --> 00:31:14,027
Small formats have been around forever. Mm-hmm. Nothing new,

499
00:31:15,038 --> 00:31:17,909
but trying to market to these generations

500
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,721
Does Bordeaux supply research? And what are you guys finding? Gen

501
00:31:22,834 --> 00:31:26,677
Zs, millennials, and on out, all this crazy stuff.

502
00:31:28,342 --> 00:31:31,800
Do you have to just put your head down and, like, get rid of the

503
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,387
noise? The project, Bordeaux is working a lot, is

504
00:31:35,645 --> 00:31:39,347
quite linked actually with the University of Bordeaux, Science University

505
00:31:39,363 --> 00:31:42,985
of Wines. They do a lot of research about the global warming

506
00:31:43,082 --> 00:31:46,683
impacts on the vines. Of course, we don't know how it's gonna happen. We

507
00:31:46,683 --> 00:31:47,937
start to know what's gonna happen with the Merlot,

508
00:31:50,146 --> 00:31:53,790
where you let grow the Merlot, if the impact of the heat we had, for

509
00:31:53,790 --> 00:31:57,370
example, this summer, going to have a big impact of your

510
00:31:57,370 --> 00:32:00,854
harvest this year or in the next future vintage. We,

511
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,188
at the winery, invest a lot also in not a proper

512
00:32:05,188 --> 00:32:08,961
scientist research, but every year we learn more about

513
00:32:09,025 --> 00:32:12,685
the previous vintage. How do we going to do? For example, I was

514
00:32:12,797 --> 00:32:16,409
talking with the winemaker last week, just last week,

515
00:32:17,035 --> 00:32:20,406
and And this year, our maceration, cold maceration that we start

516
00:32:20,406 --> 00:32:24,193
by, are longer than they

517
00:32:24,274 --> 00:32:27,837
used to be in the past. We just try new

518
00:32:27,965 --> 00:32:31,785
approach, and it works well. We are quite happy with that because by doing

519
00:32:31,897 --> 00:32:35,412
that, by doing longer maceration, cold maceration like that, we earn

520
00:32:35,894 --> 00:32:39,264
in aromatic, which is a great surprise. Yeah. So

521
00:32:39,457 --> 00:32:42,843
step by step, you learn your terroir

522
00:32:43,613 --> 00:32:47,463
by doing the vinification we are making nowadays. We are

523
00:32:47,463 --> 00:32:50,925
learning a lot, and we are able to increase

524
00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:55,604
our quality perhaps in the future vintage. This is

525
00:32:55,636 --> 00:32:59,370
part, but globally, scientifically speaking,

526
00:32:59,562 --> 00:33:03,136
in Bordeaux, there is many chaires de recherche, which is

527
00:33:03,489 --> 00:33:06,597
a university who's investing a lot of their time

528
00:33:07,895 --> 00:33:11,661
in the research or to make a forecast of what's going to be.

529
00:33:12,207 --> 00:33:16,027
in 20, 50, or even 100 years in Bordeaux. What was the

530
00:33:16,556 --> 00:33:20,392
grape variety? Did harvest start early this year? Crazy early. Crazy early?

531
00:33:20,473 --> 00:33:23,827
Yeah, yeah. This year, we are beating the new records.

532
00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:27,438
Really? Yeah. And the first, alors,

533
00:33:28,112 --> 00:33:31,772
'26 was 19th of August, which is nearly

534
00:33:32,189 --> 00:33:35,865
9 days earlier than the previous record, which was '25

535
00:33:36,844 --> 00:33:40,246
on 28th. And '22 was 29th of August.

536
00:33:41,337 --> 00:33:45,170
Usually, when you— my generation,

537
00:33:45,378 --> 00:33:49,211
father's parent generation, it was late September. You were starting the

538
00:33:49,211 --> 00:33:52,708
harvest late September, and on a good vintage, you were finishing early

539
00:33:53,365 --> 00:33:55,867
and very late October, early November.

540
00:33:57,326 --> 00:34:01,111
So nowadays, the harvest starts much earlier. Also, for

541
00:34:01,544 --> 00:34:05,024
a reason that we choose at Troplong Mondot is that we try to

542
00:34:05,473 --> 00:34:08,554
collect our grapes at the right times, not

543
00:34:08,923 --> 00:34:12,695
overripe, not too acid. We always take

544
00:34:12,711 --> 00:34:15,809
a good example to explain why we are harvesting

545
00:34:16,643 --> 00:34:19,966
at that time and not because we want to be the first one. It's

546
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:23,786
completely— the main reason I give this example, let's say

547
00:34:23,786 --> 00:34:27,413
we are producing apricot together. You are

548
00:34:27,557 --> 00:34:31,040
planting apricot here in Los Angeles, and me, I'm planting my

549
00:34:31,072 --> 00:34:34,700
apricot in Saint-Émilion, okay? If we

550
00:34:34,765 --> 00:34:38,553
collect the apricot together at the highest ripe, at the moment which is the

551
00:34:38,553 --> 00:34:41,989
highest ripe, ripe, ripe, overripe, we're going to taste it

552
00:34:41,989 --> 00:34:45,778
together, my apricot and your, and we will have a very sweet, full

553
00:34:45,778 --> 00:34:49,358
sugar, okay? Of course. If we collect the apricot

554
00:34:49,776 --> 00:34:53,548
at the time that is the best one for Saint-Émilion, and

555
00:34:53,548 --> 00:34:56,438
you, perhaps it's going to be, let's say, 10 days before you, and you, it's

556
00:34:56,438 --> 00:35:00,022
going to be 10 days later, and then we taste. And your apricot will have

557
00:35:00,071 --> 00:35:03,661
the taste of your terroir here, and my apricot will have the taste of Saint-Émilion.

558
00:35:04,095 --> 00:35:07,138
And this is exactly what we want to do. That's an interesting thought. I've never

559
00:35:07,138 --> 00:35:10,072
heard anybody say it like that. We want to, yeah, we want to make

560
00:35:11,426 --> 00:35:15,201
a wine which is reflecting our terroir, the sense of place we want

561
00:35:15,201 --> 00:35:18,826
to express. Okay, let me stop you there. Who

562
00:35:18,907 --> 00:35:21,916
cares? And I don't mean that

563
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,457
derogatorily. No, no, no, it's interesting. I mean that, like,

564
00:35:26,305 --> 00:35:29,198
How do we make people care?

565
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,250
For instance, and I've been playing with a lot of AI lately,

566
00:35:36,504 --> 00:35:40,345
my wife hates it because I'm always doing something silly. But

567
00:35:40,425 --> 00:35:43,712
I made a little series the other day of a sommelier. He walks up to

568
00:35:43,712 --> 00:35:47,442
the table and there's a couple there and they have the wine list and he

569
00:35:47,442 --> 00:35:50,623
speaks gibberish. No language. It's just

570
00:35:51,420 --> 00:35:55,215
Noise, and the concept of this video is

571
00:35:56,135 --> 00:35:59,891
this is what some of your customers hear. You walk up

572
00:35:59,908 --> 00:36:03,148
to the table; you're trying to sell them about a Truong Mondo,

573
00:36:03,897 --> 00:36:07,327
but you're talking in a language they don't understand. It might as well just be

574
00:36:07,327 --> 00:36:11,074
da da da da da. Yeah, yeah, and understood versus

575
00:36:11,107 --> 00:36:14,643
yeah. The second part of the video is the

576
00:36:14,643 --> 00:36:18,084
conversation that that they would understand. And

577
00:36:18,265 --> 00:36:21,758
so, are you

578
00:36:22,048 --> 00:36:25,538
training somms as you make these tours and wine

579
00:36:25,587 --> 00:36:29,201
shop owners to speak the language that these people understand? Oh, yes.

580
00:36:30,438 --> 00:36:32,961
Back what you say, do they understand? Do you

581
00:36:33,154 --> 00:36:36,705
really— the example I took about the

582
00:36:36,705 --> 00:36:40,342
apricot, do we feel it nowadays on the wine? Of course. And this is the

583
00:36:40,342 --> 00:36:44,016
major point. This is— it was an illustration. What I was saying was

584
00:36:44,048 --> 00:36:47,560
an illustration. And nowadays, and you try to— But that's an interesting thought. Yeah.

585
00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:51,348
The idea that you pick— To let the

586
00:36:51,446 --> 00:36:55,088
terroir express. The ripeness for the terroir, rather than the vine. It's a

587
00:36:55,104 --> 00:36:58,140
major point. It's a major point because thanks to that, you will have

588
00:36:58,575 --> 00:37:02,185
amazing expression of your terroir. You won't

589
00:37:02,362 --> 00:37:06,054
anymore do something which could be considered as overripe, so

590
00:37:06,377 --> 00:37:10,155
over-extracted too. We try— when I say reflecting

591
00:37:10,187 --> 00:37:13,788
the terroir is very important because at the end, it's what you have.

592
00:37:15,310 --> 00:37:18,720
Like, if we eat a frozen tomato and if we

593
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,725
eat an amazing tomato that was grown on a beautiful terroir,

594
00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:26,406
which give a taste, which is very, very tasty,

595
00:37:27,161 --> 00:37:30,214
it's very important. And you will feel like me, we will feel it. You know

596
00:37:30,214 --> 00:37:33,475
what I mean? And this is— and the wine is the same. As soon as

597
00:37:33,491 --> 00:37:34,762
you are making something which is

598
00:37:37,546 --> 00:37:41,186
definitely showing the terroir, you will

599
00:37:41,186 --> 00:37:44,731
feel it. And we feel it nowadays into our wines. So here's the question.

600
00:37:45,933 --> 00:37:49,732
Do you decide, do you have to decide as a winery, as a

601
00:37:50,005 --> 00:37:53,740
winery in Bordeaux? And certainly region terroir

602
00:37:53,788 --> 00:37:57,202
specific is the part of this conversation, is the conversation.

603
00:37:57,955 --> 00:38:01,097
Do you decide or do you have to decide? Like

604
00:38:02,363 --> 00:38:05,601
the opulent Napa over-extracted, I

605
00:38:06,371 --> 00:38:09,865
won't call any names out, that sort of set the bar for

606
00:38:10,362 --> 00:38:14,115
all wineries in Napa to sell stuff. And, you know, one of the number

607
00:38:14,147 --> 00:38:17,404
one wines in America right now is Austin Hope. Austin Hope was

608
00:38:17,917 --> 00:38:20,821
part of the Caymus family originally. It was, at least they were involved with it.

609
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:23,260
And the wine has a Paso Robles

610
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,254
inclination to it, but it's part of that

611
00:38:27,848 --> 00:38:31,201
oxygenated, heavy-duty, all-fruit wine.

612
00:38:31,474 --> 00:38:34,779
Mm-hmm. So do you have to decide as a winery, like, we are not gonna

613
00:38:35,549 --> 00:38:38,456
kowtow, another American term, to the

614
00:38:39,970 --> 00:38:43,723
trends of a region, or are we going to keep our head

615
00:38:43,772 --> 00:38:47,171
down and live by the expression of terroir

616
00:38:47,879 --> 00:38:51,472
so that we can educate the consumer? Yeah. Alors, the good thing is

617
00:38:51,729 --> 00:38:55,499
as well, we have a part of the industry who is following this new

618
00:38:55,596 --> 00:38:58,790
approach. The good thing is that when you talk with

619
00:38:59,984 --> 00:39:03,727
some sommeliers, some, of course, journalists as well, they really,

620
00:39:03,824 --> 00:39:07,140
really understand where we want to go. And we feel it into the ratings of

621
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:10,883
our wines. For example, '15, '16

622
00:39:10,995 --> 00:39:14,412
were beautiful vintage, but the ratings

623
00:39:14,749 --> 00:39:18,471
that we have into our wines is increasing drastically in the past

624
00:39:18,856 --> 00:39:22,562
10 years. You're talking about the periodical ratings, the magazines, the

625
00:39:22,610 --> 00:39:26,444
publications? Yeah, like Decanter, Spectator, Wine Advocate, of course.

626
00:39:27,583 --> 00:39:30,327
Like the '22 vintage is 100 Wine Advocate points.

627
00:39:31,450 --> 00:39:35,268
The '25 is on the line of that. We receive 100 still.

628
00:39:36,584 --> 00:39:40,388
So in the industry, we feel it. On the importer side, which

629
00:39:40,501 --> 00:39:44,209
I see, me, for my wine, is that when you talk with

630
00:39:44,450 --> 00:39:47,981
Northern Europe consumer, Denmark is a very, very precise

631
00:39:47,981 --> 00:39:51,609
market where they know what they drink. They really have a

632
00:39:51,818 --> 00:39:55,285
big knowledge about Bordeaux, Burgundy. And they told you,

633
00:39:56,328 --> 00:39:59,828
I really, really like the shift you did in Troplong Mondot wines because

634
00:40:00,261 --> 00:40:04,066
I'm drinking beautiful, expressive wines. Mm-hmm. And so we feel it. In UK, it's the

635
00:40:04,098 --> 00:40:07,944
same. UK is back for us. The market, Perhaps it's more difficult

636
00:40:07,944 --> 00:40:10,533
at the moment because the market is different, but

637
00:40:11,731 --> 00:40:15,226
UK end consumer, they really love the profile of the wine we are making today.

638
00:40:16,702 --> 00:40:19,659
Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. They actually sense that. They can tell what's going on. Yeah,

639
00:40:19,675 --> 00:40:23,517
they're sensitive of that. When we do tours in the

640
00:40:23,517 --> 00:40:27,052
US as well, I'm going to New York and those people, those sommeliers,

641
00:40:27,571 --> 00:40:29,371
the buyers from some

642
00:40:31,447 --> 00:40:34,900
clubs, country clubs or stuff like that, they like the new

643
00:40:34,933 --> 00:40:38,378
approach we are doing. And they recognize the evolution. Because

644
00:40:38,956 --> 00:40:41,749
Troplong Mondot is a wine which is, I would

645
00:40:41,877 --> 00:40:45,393
say, famous. It's not Cheval Blanc or it's

646
00:40:45,393 --> 00:40:49,149
not Mouton, but we have these collectors who are

647
00:40:49,149 --> 00:40:52,840
following us for decades, and they appreciate what we are

648
00:40:52,856 --> 00:40:56,147
doing since nearly almost 10 years now.

649
00:40:57,014 --> 00:41:00,641
So yeah, we feel it. And it's not only for the

650
00:41:00,641 --> 00:41:04,381
geek. No, it's interesting you're able to get that recognition

651
00:41:04,493 --> 00:41:07,514
by a consumer. Consumer, yeah. And you don't know how many that is. But those

652
00:41:07,611 --> 00:41:11,452
are, that are experiencing this, and the only way they can probably do this

653
00:41:12,049 --> 00:41:15,148
is that somebody puts the glass in front of them and says, look, taste this.

654
00:41:15,213 --> 00:41:18,962
Now, just sitting here with the 2011 Michel Rolland influence,

655
00:41:19,496 --> 00:41:23,211
clearly Old World Bordeaux, was

656
00:41:23,308 --> 00:41:26,432
without filtering, which is really interesting to me. But

657
00:41:27,092 --> 00:41:29,910
you spoke about the elegance. They both had elegance

658
00:41:30,812 --> 00:41:34,523
in their own way. Yeah, yeah. I'm not rejecting the previous style. No, I don't

659
00:41:34,523 --> 00:41:38,059
think so. Of course not. The previous style was really interesting and

660
00:41:38,173 --> 00:41:41,661
remains interesting. The only thing is that with the previous style,

661
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,344
we had perhaps— we missed some consumers in their youth.

662
00:41:46,618 --> 00:41:50,387
So it was not very digestible to drink an '11, '12, or '15, '16

663
00:41:50,403 --> 00:41:54,238
vintage just 3, 4, 5 years after the vintage

664
00:41:54,593 --> 00:41:58,091
was released. But the good thing, and as I

665
00:41:58,220 --> 00:42:01,827
used to say for Troplong Mondot wines, Yes. For the previous

666
00:42:01,939 --> 00:42:05,535
approach, there is a drinking window which starts just 10 years after. So

667
00:42:05,615 --> 00:42:08,698
our '16 nowadays starts to show amazingly.

668
00:42:09,629 --> 00:42:13,289
The '16 is rich, but it's opulent. It's a wine which

669
00:42:14,284 --> 00:42:17,993
gives us great pleasure. I used to call it, like the '15,

670
00:42:18,057 --> 00:42:21,878
it's a really comfortable wine. It's a wine you want to pair with a beautiful,

671
00:42:23,034 --> 00:42:26,068
I don't know, steak. Yeah, we are in the US.

672
00:42:26,742 --> 00:42:30,548
the country of the steakhouse. And definitely a '16 vintage

673
00:42:30,821 --> 00:42:34,096
Troplong Mondot, it's the perfect pairing

674
00:42:34,353 --> 00:42:37,918
for a profile of food like that, like

675
00:42:37,982 --> 00:42:41,723
'15. But those vintages, it was necessary

676
00:42:41,755 --> 00:42:45,320
to wait a bit. And that's why, yeah, these drinking vintages start to appear.

677
00:42:45,850 --> 00:42:49,671
And thanks to our acidity, because we mentioned that during the tasting,

678
00:42:50,008 --> 00:42:53,767
thanks to that, the— And And the blend

679
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,496
we have makes a beautiful balance

680
00:42:57,496 --> 00:43:01,097
between the both terroirs we have and

681
00:43:01,193 --> 00:43:04,608
gave us, after those 10 years, round tannins, a

682
00:43:04,898 --> 00:43:07,524
beautiful acidity, which makes something really, really

683
00:43:08,201 --> 00:43:11,685
appreciable now. So at the end, it's good also to

684
00:43:11,685 --> 00:43:15,480
drink old-style Troplong

685
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,309
Mondot. It's just fun and interesting to know. The reason I

686
00:43:19,373 --> 00:43:22,133
brought Michel Rolland, since you brought it up, is just an interesting quote that I

687
00:43:22,245 --> 00:43:25,678
use all the time from him to a young

688
00:43:26,111 --> 00:43:29,785
woman who was starting a winery in Armenia. And

689
00:43:29,866 --> 00:43:33,138
her uncle owns the winery, and he also owns an Argentinian winery.

690
00:43:33,876 --> 00:43:37,679
But Michel Rolland came and said, yes, you can grow grapes

691
00:43:37,727 --> 00:43:41,160
here in this valley, but you won't know for 100 years.

692
00:43:42,235 --> 00:43:45,780
And I mean, it's so true, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then you're

693
00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:49,181
talking about some of these changes that you made just recently. And so, So

694
00:43:49,534 --> 00:43:53,365
that knowledge never— you're never gonna reach that knowledge because you're constantly

695
00:43:53,365 --> 00:43:56,683
changing the market, the way it works, and trying to make better wines. And so

696
00:43:56,988 --> 00:43:59,392
you really, we don't know for 100 years because it's gonna be different this year.

697
00:43:59,873 --> 00:44:03,496
Yeah. You're picking earlier this year. And so it's

698
00:44:03,864 --> 00:44:07,535
so dynamic. You can never— It's constant evolution. And, you know,

699
00:44:08,994 --> 00:44:12,825
what we are doing now, it's also not so far different

700
00:44:12,857 --> 00:44:16,705
from what we were doing in the early '90s, what Christine

701
00:44:16,705 --> 00:44:20,424
Valette was doing as well. There is just a period when between '04

702
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,029
'05, '06, '16, where the impact of the influence,

703
00:44:24,157 --> 00:44:27,762
not impact, which is, it was used to be a great influence of Robert

704
00:44:27,762 --> 00:44:30,615
Parker by doing wine which were very

705
00:44:31,768 --> 00:44:35,374
extracted, strong wine. That was his style. Heavy aging.

706
00:44:36,655 --> 00:44:40,469
Those wines are, when they're well made, like Troplong Mondot, are beautiful

707
00:44:40,485 --> 00:44:44,122
to drink, appreciate. But the only thing is that you had to wait a

708
00:44:44,186 --> 00:44:46,398
bit more, like 10 years is a good beginning.

709
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:52,895
But back to the '90s, if you drink— I'm coming back on

710
00:44:52,927 --> 00:44:56,458
the '85 Troplong Mondot. It's a crazy vintage, full of

711
00:44:56,458 --> 00:45:00,117
freshness, full of balance. But it was not

712
00:45:00,213 --> 00:45:03,936
made with such extraction, such new hogs. We were harvesting,

713
00:45:04,081 --> 00:45:07,001
of course, not so early than today, but at the

714
00:45:07,049 --> 00:45:10,740
end, we are a bit back of what we were

715
00:45:10,805 --> 00:45:14,399
doing in the past. I thought I had the conversation. Smoother extraction.

716
00:45:14,755 --> 00:45:18,524
I had a conversation yesterday with my— the collector, one of them, and I said,

717
00:45:18,541 --> 00:45:21,162
oh, I've got access to this. It was

718
00:45:22,035 --> 00:45:22,714
domestic wine,

719
00:45:23,167 --> 00:45:26,206
quintas.

720
00:45:26,804 --> 00:45:30,426
And I said— he goes, I'm not going to be

721
00:45:30,507 --> 00:45:33,871
old enough. I'll be too old to even want to drink it by the time

722
00:45:33,935 --> 00:45:37,769
it's ready. I go, that's an interesting problem that you're collecting based on

723
00:45:38,109 --> 00:45:41,101
whether you're going to be able to enjoy it when it's right. Yeah. You know,

724
00:45:41,133 --> 00:45:44,906
one of the— we were talking a little bit about the regulations of the area

725
00:45:44,906 --> 00:45:47,620
of Saint-Émilion and how it's a dynamic

726
00:45:48,824 --> 00:45:52,661
change in what's going on. And part of the problem— not problem—

727
00:45:52,677 --> 00:45:55,904
part of the issues are that hospitality became a major part

728
00:45:55,904 --> 00:45:59,083
of proving that you're keeping up with

729
00:45:59,597 --> 00:46:01,893
what's going on in the marketplace. What happens in

730
00:46:01,925 --> 00:46:05,586
hospitality? We have a strong,

731
00:46:06,084 --> 00:46:08,717
definitely a strong approach on the hospitality because

732
00:46:09,793 --> 00:46:13,419
Except producing wine and making a tourism, we have, as I

733
00:46:13,484 --> 00:46:17,094
mentioned, a Michelin star restaurant. We have one Michelin

734
00:46:17,094 --> 00:46:20,817
star and one green Michelin star. Means that we are producing. I've never

735
00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:24,701
heard you said that earlier. Green Michelin star. Yeah, green.

736
00:46:24,797 --> 00:46:27,878
Étoile verte. Étoile verte. Exactly. It means that you are

737
00:46:29,050 --> 00:46:32,789
producing your own vegetables. No day at Trois Le Mondeaux depending

738
00:46:32,966 --> 00:46:36,802
of the season, but we nearly reach 90% of the vegetables. That's

739
00:46:36,818 --> 00:46:40,417
amazing. Yeah. From our 2 gardens, we have one which is very

740
00:46:40,449 --> 00:46:43,711
close from the winery, and we have a second one which is far from— 2

741
00:46:43,727 --> 00:46:47,374
kilometers far away. So I can assume if I go there that 90% of the

742
00:46:47,374 --> 00:46:50,636
vegetables, herbs— Of course, yes. And the last 10%

743
00:46:50,652 --> 00:46:54,219
will come from maraîchage, which is like 10,

744
00:46:54,411 --> 00:46:57,320
20 kilometers far away from here, maximum. Maximum.

745
00:46:58,187 --> 00:47:01,594
That's amazing. Yeah. And the idea for us is to

746
00:47:02,947 --> 00:47:06,770
to really produce our own vegetables. The chief has his team

747
00:47:06,899 --> 00:47:10,690
of jardiniers who's taking care of

748
00:47:10,802 --> 00:47:14,384
these gardens. And he'd say, for example, this year,

749
00:47:14,981 --> 00:47:18,788
this summer, I really want to focus on a variety of tomatoes. I want to

750
00:47:18,788 --> 00:47:22,442
cook, and they will produce in consequence. Wow. It could

751
00:47:22,507 --> 00:47:25,924
be for zucchini or stuff like that. It will be like that.

752
00:47:26,662 --> 00:47:30,455
And back to our activity. So we have this beautiful

753
00:47:30,471 --> 00:47:32,424
restaurant and we have a boutique hotel too, which is a very tiny boutique hotel.

754
00:47:34,826 --> 00:47:38,463
We have 6 rooms next to the château, and we have 2

755
00:47:38,608 --> 00:47:42,020
small— we have a small house, we call it the House of the Vineyards,

756
00:47:42,517 --> 00:47:46,138
and where we have 2 rooms there. So it's a

757
00:47:46,138 --> 00:47:49,792
complete activity. I used to say, me, when I'm in Troplong Mondot nearly

758
00:47:49,904 --> 00:47:53,701
every day, except when I'm traveling, and I'm in a small village, because when you

759
00:47:53,749 --> 00:47:57,563
arrive, you're going to meet the chief, the cookers who are working there, you're going

760
00:47:57,563 --> 00:48:01,360
to have the winemaker and his teams, you're going to find the people

761
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,775
working in the— The vineyard. in the boutique hotels, and us,

762
00:48:05,047 --> 00:48:08,622
we're working for the wines part. So it's a micro world,

763
00:48:08,830 --> 00:48:12,678
micro village for me, where you have so many different activities. I

764
00:48:12,806 --> 00:48:16,237
told you my sister-in-law and my brother-in-law are coming to

765
00:48:16,269 --> 00:48:19,892
Bordeaux, and they asked for recommendations.

766
00:48:19,956 --> 00:48:23,723
And of course, and my mutual niece with my

767
00:48:23,723 --> 00:48:27,090
brother-in-law is a young girl who studies at Cornell,

768
00:48:27,571 --> 00:48:31,181
and she was given an internship at Château Bailly. So I said, you got to

769
00:48:31,181 --> 00:48:34,199
go by Bailly and Veronique will take care of you. I said, but you have

770
00:48:34,247 --> 00:48:37,970
to go to Saint-Émilion. Ah, yes. Even if it's for one night. Yeah. You have

771
00:48:37,986 --> 00:48:41,228
to go stay there and walk it, see all the wine shops,

772
00:48:41,918 --> 00:48:45,064
all the history, the restaurant, everything. It's just an

773
00:48:45,064 --> 00:48:48,563
incredible piece of history to be part of.

774
00:48:49,558 --> 00:48:52,399
But you said something, and we're almost— we're actually out of time, but I got

775
00:48:52,399 --> 00:48:56,176
to finish this thought. It just hit

776
00:48:56,273 --> 00:48:59,754
me, this parallel idea, the fact that you grow your own

777
00:48:59,754 --> 00:49:02,987
vegetables and herbs. Is that not

778
00:49:03,165 --> 00:49:06,263
unlike wine? Food,

779
00:49:06,877 --> 00:49:10,508
first of all, Americans have the worst diet in the world. We eat things. And

780
00:49:10,589 --> 00:49:14,311
one of the great respects I have for the French culture

781
00:49:14,327 --> 00:49:17,597
is this appellation for not only wine, but butter,

782
00:49:17,613 --> 00:49:20,255
cheese, and the MOF system, all that. Mm-hmm.

783
00:49:22,565 --> 00:49:25,381
elevates. Of course, there's still parts of France where you can go get a hamburger,

784
00:49:25,543 --> 00:49:28,521
McDonald's. I have to tell you,

785
00:49:28,537 --> 00:49:32,212
1989, I went to Paris

786
00:49:32,503 --> 00:49:35,546
and I couldn't believe that people were standing in line

787
00:49:36,372 --> 00:49:40,192
to eat a hamburger when 2 doors down was this amazing baguette

788
00:49:40,192 --> 00:49:44,023
with ham. Yeah. As you mentioned, the grass is always

789
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,211
greener. Exactly. So you

790
00:49:47,919 --> 00:49:50,410
always want what you don't have. But I wonder if it's a never-ending

791
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:56,696
Requirement on our part and the show's part

792
00:49:56,969 --> 00:50:00,582
and your part on the road to educate people on wine and the

793
00:50:00,582 --> 00:50:03,761
transformation of wine and the value of a good wine, the value of honest wine,

794
00:50:04,114 --> 00:50:07,839
not unlike the idea of proper food. And here you

795
00:50:08,032 --> 00:50:11,822
are with a restaurant that grows its own vegetables, which is so different

796
00:50:11,822 --> 00:50:15,418
than the stuff you buy from the vendors for the most part, and

797
00:50:15,498 --> 00:50:18,723
so different from the cuisine you would eat. Like, I'm going to have lunch today,

798
00:50:18,787 --> 00:50:22,633
but at my favorite diner. They don't use— Yeah, of course. Yeah. But when

799
00:50:22,633 --> 00:50:26,319
you taste that and you understand it— It's crazy. The appreciation— Yeah.

800
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,341
The taste— Never leaves. Yeah, of course. Of course. So, yeah, it's a

801
00:50:30,341 --> 00:50:33,994
parallel education process that we're in, is to teach people about

802
00:50:34,026 --> 00:50:37,872
food and wine. And of course, it's part of the experience you have at

803
00:50:37,872 --> 00:50:41,638
Troplong Mondot. If you have the opportunity to visit the wineries, taste

804
00:50:41,638 --> 00:50:45,487
the wine, and then go through the restaurant, The complete experience will be

805
00:50:45,551 --> 00:50:49,308
to also stay at the boutique hotel. It's a crazy moment, of course.

806
00:50:49,565 --> 00:50:53,403
And food and wines remain strongly

807
00:50:54,141 --> 00:50:57,786
linked. Yes. That's why perhaps you heard about that. The Michelin Guide

808
00:50:58,332 --> 00:51:02,089
did grapes like it's the star, but the grapes for

809
00:51:02,105 --> 00:51:05,333
wineries. It started with Burgundy. And last week

810
00:51:05,959 --> 00:51:09,459
there is a— I don't know how you call it. Wait, wait, run, run.

811
00:51:10,366 --> 00:51:12,571
In English, back the trolley up.

812
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,680
Michelin, Guide Michelin. The Guide Michelin is now

813
00:51:18,070 --> 00:51:21,626
making a guide around the winery.

814
00:51:21,756 --> 00:51:25,182
So it will deserve 1, 2, or 3 grapes.

815
00:51:26,020 --> 00:51:29,650
So, and the presentation this year was last week in

816
00:51:29,650 --> 00:51:33,394
Bordeaux. And so only focus for Bordeaux. It exists already for Burgundy. And so

817
00:51:33,885 --> 00:51:35,653
Troplong Mondot, we receive 2 grapes.

818
00:51:37,672 --> 00:51:39,454
Lafite receives, Lafite, Figeac, they receive 3. We receive 2.

819
00:51:41,536 --> 00:51:45,226
Carmeau-Brillon. So it's

820
00:51:45,226 --> 00:51:47,809
another profile of, I will say,

821
00:51:48,466 --> 00:51:51,819
it's not like ratings because they are not rating a

822
00:51:51,819 --> 00:51:55,429
vintage. They are more rating a stability, a consistency.

823
00:51:55,814 --> 00:51:59,392
Wow. Interesting. Yeah. Well, many people will say

824
00:51:59,664 --> 00:52:03,419
another judgment, another thing

825
00:52:03,852 --> 00:52:07,590
that the Guide Michelin— no, I mean, for me, in my opinion, it's

826
00:52:07,702 --> 00:52:11,119
something that will bring some consumers who are not very involved in the wines,

827
00:52:12,042 --> 00:52:15,848
to let them understand that food is quite linked

828
00:52:15,848 --> 00:52:19,379
with the wines. And they also can consider visiting

829
00:52:19,556 --> 00:52:22,997
wineries by its ranking,

830
00:52:24,460 --> 00:52:27,772
1, 2, or 3 grapes. I have great respect for Guy

831
00:52:27,772 --> 00:52:31,483
Michelin because when I travel, I know

832
00:52:31,564 --> 00:52:35,243
that the standardization of their ratings

833
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:39,892
are standardized as they can come because it's internal. Everything's from the same grape.

834
00:52:40,573 --> 00:52:44,314
As opposed to Yelp, Foursquare, and all these other things, which is some— who knows

835
00:52:44,346 --> 00:52:48,070
what this person's experienced in their life that they're rating it 5 stars or whatever

836
00:52:48,118 --> 00:52:51,425
it is. And you go there and you go, ugh. You know, in fact, one

837
00:52:51,425 --> 00:52:53,946
of the worst experiences I've ever had at a restaurant was one of these highly

838
00:52:53,962 --> 00:52:57,670
rated Yelp things. And so I respect the Guide Michelin

839
00:52:57,670 --> 00:53:01,074
because it does do that. At least there's a central focus on

840
00:53:01,668 --> 00:53:05,167
a level of quality that you would expect when you go to it. And now

841
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,763
you're saying that there's a standardization for them for the grape

842
00:53:08,812 --> 00:53:12,500
quality. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily the wines, but the grape quality.

843
00:53:12,740 --> 00:53:16,440
No, no, no. The grapes is the name they give to the star.

844
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,580
Oh, I see. Instead of star, right. Instead of star, it's grapes. But no, no,

845
00:53:19,580 --> 00:53:22,780
they will judge the consistency of the winery. I don't have the

846
00:53:22,780 --> 00:53:26,520
exact— I'm gonna look it up. Yeah, look, have a look on that. It's interesting.

847
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,000
It's completely new. It exists with Burgundy since, I don't know, perhaps

848
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,300
since last year. Bordeaux is the second one, appellation

849
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:36,960
region, which is judged by the Michelin Guide.

850
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,720
So it's another, yeah, Yeah, for me, it could be an opportunity

851
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:44,340
for those people who are not really linked with the wine industry. I can't believe

852
00:53:44,340 --> 00:53:48,020
this. We're already at—

853
00:53:48,020 --> 00:53:51,760
wow, we're going to be an hour here, pretty close.

854
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,560
We could talk forever. Yeah, yeah. This is very fascinating. I'm going

855
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,650
to do something really fun here. I only do it with French visitors.

856
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,320
Okay. This is a book. This will

857
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,160
close out this conversation. This is a book called Wine Is the Best Medicine.

858
00:54:07,007 --> 00:54:10,806
Ah oui. And it's by Monsieur Dr. Médecin de

859
00:54:10,854 --> 00:54:14,669
Murry. Okay, a French one? Yeah, he was a French general

860
00:54:14,718 --> 00:54:17,811
practitioner, MD, also a holistic

861
00:54:18,180 --> 00:54:21,627
doctor. All the benefits of the wine, I guess, for health. So, he

862
00:54:21,835 --> 00:54:24,945
has a whole book on human maladies, human diseases,

863
00:54:25,602 --> 00:54:29,321
and the best wine to accommodate that.

864
00:54:29,930 --> 00:54:33,537
I love that. I'm not sure it's a cure, right? Because no matter what you

865
00:54:33,537 --> 00:54:36,871
drink, you'll feel better, right? So, all right, so I'm going to give you

866
00:54:37,544 --> 00:54:41,349
a malady. Yeah. And I'm gonna give you 3 choices. So,

867
00:54:41,959 --> 00:54:44,961
uh, just to put you at ease, um,

868
00:54:45,892 --> 00:54:48,605
usually 33% of the people get it right because

869
00:54:49,681 --> 00:54:52,812
the, the next question is kind of like the Master of Wine test. Why did

870
00:54:52,812 --> 00:54:56,584
you answer the question that way? Right. Okay. So, okay, so we're gonna

871
00:54:56,584 --> 00:55:00,277
go with, um, anemia, right? The blood disease anemia. Yeah.

872
00:55:00,486 --> 00:55:04,194
You can either have a dry champagne, a Madoc

873
00:55:04,307 --> 00:55:07,937
red, Or a Graves. Well,

874
00:55:07,953 --> 00:55:11,703
Graves is Médoc. No, Graves is beside.

875
00:55:11,832 --> 00:55:15,078
So those are the choices for anemia. Anemia.

876
00:55:15,812 --> 00:55:18,097
And the reasons, then you have to answer why you would choose it.

877
00:55:21,824 --> 00:55:24,620
I would say Médoc. And why? Because

878
00:55:28,830 --> 00:55:31,685
it's a red champagne. I'm not sure. It will be

879
00:55:31,685 --> 00:55:35,106
the Médoc because

880
00:55:35,477 --> 00:55:38,484
of the Cabernet. A strong Cabernet will avoid perhaps

881
00:55:39,916 --> 00:55:42,536
your blood to fill. No, I do it.

882
00:55:44,499 --> 00:55:48,293
Dr. Thomas said so. Because the

883
00:55:48,293 --> 00:55:52,023
Médoc is great as well. No, you're close. You're close because I—

884
00:55:52,071 --> 00:55:55,356
The Cabernet, the skin of the Cabernet, perhaps it's coming about the skin. It's talking

885
00:55:55,389 --> 00:55:58,921
about the Graves. Okay, but let's just say that's your Bordeaux on the Left Bank,

886
00:55:58,938 --> 00:56:02,340
so that's good. What would be your

887
00:56:02,340 --> 00:56:06,060
dosage? What would you recommend, doctor, for how much should I drink of this? For

888
00:56:06,060 --> 00:56:09,500
anemia? At least 3 glasses, one

889
00:56:09,500 --> 00:56:13,120
every meal, one for breakfast, one for lunch. You're a little light. It's 2

890
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,860
glasses a meal. 2 glasses, okay. Yeah, right. So a bottle a day. Yeah, about

891
00:56:16,860 --> 00:56:19,680
a bottle a day. Okay. So the reason it says he calls it out, and

892
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,460
it's very close to what you're saying, anemia is a pathological disease

893
00:56:23,460 --> 00:56:27,220
in the number of red cells, manifests itself in a variety

894
00:56:27,220 --> 00:56:30,809
of disorders, among which are fatigue, vertigo, a lack of

895
00:56:30,905 --> 00:56:34,673
general tone, and sometimes hemorrhaging. It is

896
00:56:34,770 --> 00:56:38,530
therefore advisable, independent of other treatment proper to this type of disease, to give

897
00:56:38,578 --> 00:56:41,900
the patient supplementary amount of iron. Thus,

898
00:56:42,838 --> 00:56:46,620
a Graves' has higher iron content than the

899
00:56:46,959 --> 00:56:50,688
other wines I mentioned. The iron level in the wine can sometimes

900
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:54,490
reach 10 milligrams per liter. Okay. Interesting.

901
00:56:54,538 --> 00:56:56,998
So there you have it. So in case you're ever diagnosed with anemia— I will

902
00:56:56,998 --> 00:56:58,066
consider the Graves'. You'll have to leave the white

903
00:57:01,850 --> 00:57:04,010
bank. Such a pleasure and honor to have you here. Thank you very much. Thank

904
00:57:04,010 --> 00:57:07,670
you, Paul, for your time. My pleasure. I hope you have successful travels.

905
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:11,490
You're headed back to Bordeaux tomorrow? No, I'm back to— I'm going to

906
00:57:11,490 --> 00:57:15,250
New York tonight. Oh, you are? Okay. I take the red-eye flight and then I

907
00:57:15,250 --> 00:57:18,910
will be back this weekend in Bordeaux and I go to Central Europe

908
00:57:18,910 --> 00:57:22,150
next week. Wow. So you see, you're on the road. Yeah. Another world.

909
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:25,870
Slovakia. Nice. Slovakia? Yeah, yeah. We do a big event there

910
00:57:26,803 --> 00:57:30,330
It's not a considering small market for the

911
00:57:30,330 --> 00:57:34,177
population compared to the— Slovakia. Yeah. Just next

912
00:57:34,177 --> 00:57:37,992
to Austria, Bratislava. And yeah, small country,

913
00:57:38,505 --> 00:57:42,144
but a drinker of Bordeaux. You know, it seems the

914
00:57:42,176 --> 00:57:45,975
internet and all the technologies around have made the world a lot

915
00:57:45,975 --> 00:57:49,726
smaller. And the gentleman that's gonna do

916
00:57:49,726 --> 00:57:53,430
this show for us, to edit the show for us, is in Serbia. He's in

917
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:57,043
Serbia. Serbia is a country. We are present there. We are

918
00:57:57,043 --> 00:58:00,095
making Mondeux in exclusivity there. Really? Yeah.

919
00:58:00,496 --> 00:58:03,885
Europe is a region where all,

920
00:58:04,896 --> 00:58:08,429
a large part of the population is well with the

921
00:58:08,510 --> 00:58:12,332
wines. And even if many countries are producing their own

922
00:58:12,444 --> 00:58:15,094
wines, like I'm thinking about Austria, Germany, they're drinking also

923
00:58:16,379 --> 00:58:19,976
different appellation and region wines. So— Well, it sounds like you're doing your

924
00:58:19,976 --> 00:58:23,702
job. Yeah. Cheers. Thank you very much. My pleasure.