0:00 It is the DNA of the grape that determines the shape of the glass. When we develop a new shape for a specific grape variety, we never do it on our own. We always surround ourselves with some of the bigger and smaller winemakers from a particular region. Nothing is done on a computer. Trial and error. It's all about smell, taste, mouth, feel, texture, aftertaste. And we can only do this with the true influences of wine, which to me, are the winemakers. Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul K. Hey. Hey. Welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And yes, I am the guy that sold 17 million bottles of wine direct to the consumer and tasted 100,000 wines along the way. We're here to have a conversation with Maximilian Rudel. Introductions in just a moment, but Wine Talks here is to tell the stories, the stories of wine, because wine is more than a story, what is in the glass. It's about why it's in the glass. And since we're with Maximilian today, we're going to talk about the glass. Yes. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Paul. Thank you for having me. You know, we were just talking a little bit about, you know, how important the glassware is, and I've tasted wine from in plastic tumblers to.

1:11 To your fabulous glassware. But last night at dinner, mentioned to my friends, I'm going to see Maximilian Riddell. Riedel. Riddell, the way you want to pronounce it, but it's Riedel. Rhymes with needle. That's the way it works. Oh, okay. Riedel. And he said, why does that happen? Why? It just tastes better when we put it in the proper glass. Is there a simple answer to that? Well, nowadays it sounds simple, but when my grandfather did the research in the 1950s, people thought he was on the wrong path. And over the next two generations, the wine world, including the consumer, became very much aware about the importance of the instrument, the tool, or how I like to call it, the loudspeaker for fine wine. And yes, the glass makes a difference. And it's very easy to test this at home. If you have real or not, just put the same beverage into different shaped vessels, smell and taste the difference, you will be amazed. It's kind of interesting because it's. And I have a hard time explaining it as well, to the extent that it is the same chemical compound in both glasses. If I put it in a plastic tumbler or put it in a fine crystal glassware, it is the same thing that's inside, but it's the vessel that is changing its perception. No, it's not the vessel, it's not the material, it is the flow, it is the shape, the architecture, the design that we have been

2:41 studying. I mean, we are the oldest glass producing company in the world. We are in the 11th generation producing glass since 270 years. And only the last three generations really fell in love with wine. As I said, 1950s. And it's very interesting when we talk about white wine versus red wine, different shaped glasses used. When we talk about thin skinned red fruit such as Pinot Noir versus Cabernet, which is a very thick skinned red fruit, the glass can help, the glass can support the glass cannot change the wine. Yeah. So I suppose molecularly it's the same stuff. It's the same stuff. Correct. It's besides food having an influence over what you're doing.

3:28 It is an important feature that I like to show people, and particularly at my home, when they come and they ask that question, are we talking about wine? And wine to a lot of people is an intimidating subject. But when you break it down to something as simple as this, as interesting as this, it starts to raise an eyebrow. Like, wow, I didn't even know this. Part of what you know. Yes, appreciate a glass of wine is how is it that it's only been three generations? I mean, you have 11 generations here in the company. Yeah, but you're saying the last three, maybe four generations had the appreciation for. For wine? Well, because wine, obviously, if you open history books, it has a long history. But the way how we enjoy it nowadays with food, and we're not royals or related to the church, it's fairly new, it's fairly unique. And so only in the 1950 in Europe, people drank wine as a pleasure because wine was then seen as energy. You know, people who worked the fields, they got a glass of wine or beer.

4:31 That's also the tradition. The concept behind the beer is the nutrition that it carries. So to make wine palatable the way we enjoy it now, I think my grandfather was there at the right time. And the first glass collection he dedicated to the world of wine was called sommelier in the 1970s. Wow. Word was even around that. Imagine. And in the 1970s, why call it sommelier? Because then the true wine influences were the sommeliers. If a sommelier said, this wine is good, it's going to be on my wine list, then you made it as a producer. Of course, times have changed, but only in the 1970s, the world really became aware of using proper stemware to enjoy wine, including the professionals. Now, how did crystal, lead, crystal at that time become the important factor of, you know, the breakdown of a glass? Or was it. Was it crystal in the first place? Lead crystal then was popular. It was introduced, invented by a gentleman called George Ravenscroft, turn of the century, 100, 200 years ago. And the reason why lead was added was so that you could not only shape the glass, you had a longer period of time because it softened the glass to a certain degree. But in those those days, glasses were more art objects, so it was important to color them, it was important to engrave them. And for that, you needed the lead composition. Nowadays, we have replaced it. I don't want to call it

6:02 organic, but it's much more environmental friendly in the production and in the recycling way. Was it really a bleed at that time? That's not even part of our subject matter. But was it really a bleed of lead into various beverages that were put into a lead? Well, I can't confirm that. I mean, obviously in those days, people have done tests, especially for decanters to hold whiskeys and other beverages. And I don't think that in those days people died of lead poisoning from crystal decanters. I think that the environment then was so poisoning. There were other reasons now, going back. To the wine and your. Your grandfather realizing. And that was the 70s, an important part of the wine path for Americans, of course, with the judgment of Paris correct. But I always, I contend that wine really hasn't changed that much in the last 6,000 years. It's still a fermented, it's a picked grape.

6:59 Certainly we find the processes and we. And I've always asked the question of the winemakers, what is your end goal? What are you trying to do? Why are you spending so much time experimenting and innovating in the vineyard to do this? And I guess it's just to refine the expression of the wine. And. And certainly your glassware has a ton to do with that in these. These days. Is that appreciation being felt throughout the trade, in the restaurant trade, the consumer trade, that. That the. Your glass. We want more, right? Yes. No, I mean, it's a very good question, and I'm very thankful for that. I can only say I was just in Aspen, Colorado, with my family for them the first time, and I would say every other restaurant carried our product because they have paid attention to the wine portfolio. Wine has become a very important part of the restaurant dining industry, and it made me very proud and very happy. And it's similar all over the world because it's the consumer that demands it, I believe because the consumer is aware that the glass can have an impact on how we taste. People want to get the most out of their investment.

8:12 To me, every bottle of wine is an investment depending on your budget. And obviously, we're not only working with the consumer and the restaurant trade. We are working with cruise ship industry. And they have done a lot of tests and they have learned that if they use proper stemware, maybe fine crystal, nowadays, the lighter the better. Interesting enough. In the old days, we had to explain how to proper polish them so they don't break. Nowadays, people seem to have gotten beyond that point. And the cruise industry has proven back to us that if you serve good wine in best wine glasses, it motivates you to maybe enjoy a glass or two more. So you're in Aspen with your family and you have children? Yes.

8:59 One of the questions I had here was like your earliest recollection of the glass industry and whether you were going to default into the glass industry or that you had ambitions to do other things. Like many winemakers, come back to their family trade. So for you, was that the case? And then how about your kids? Yeah. So I'm very thankful towards my parents for the education that my sister and I have received. We are a family business. We're not the third generation that wants to sell. I'm the 11th generation. We are way beyond that. But it took also my parents, obviously a lot of creativity to make it interesting to me. I could have done everything in the world. I could have become a manager of a bank, for example. But my parents sold me the concept to be so interesting to world to work in the wine and in the wine glass industry, that this is all I wanted to do. And bringing up my kids, it's very similar. They're very young. Obviously they're not allowed to taste wine, but they're allowed to smell. They come to some of my tastings.

10:02 I invite them. I want them to engage with the. The concept. I want them to be interested. I mean, for me, when I saw my dad for the first time on stage talking about our glasses to a bigger audience, he was like my hero. That's what I wanted to do. It's like watching a movie over and over again. And so I'm trying to do the same with my kids. I don't want to be the last. Let's put it this way, it has to be a 12th generation. That's fair enough. You know, for me, my father asked me to join him in 1988. I had already been at Corporate America and already started a software company with five guys and no money and a bunch of business cards. And I wasn't. I didn't go to it because I thought this was an amazing industry. And I. I worked in it, my father's store, many years. But it took a few years for me to understand how valuable this interesting and important a glass of wine is to the human story culture. Yes. And I find that fascinating. It's not every day. It's not a day that doesn't go by that I don't thank my dad for having introduced me to this. Beautiful. And being part of, you know, the storytelling of it. Because it's just every person who. Like Today you have 500 people coming to your seminar. Unbelievable. In Los Angeles. So excited. Yes. And you're gonna. Every one of these people is gonna walk away better off than they were when they got there and more interested in telling your story. Yes. But of course, social media helps. You know, I've become, for whatever reason, very engaged with social media. There

11:33 was a time where I was seeking a new way of communicating my product, especially to the younger audience. And social media came around the corner. And since day one, I was on Facebook. I was on Instagram. Originally, I saw it as a dating site. You know, I mean, let's not forget, when Facebook came out, what did we do? We were looking, we were peeking and sleeking. But nowadays I use it to communicate. And when I look at my nephews at the age of 19, they're my biggest fans. Not because I'm the coolest uncle. It's because they love what I do on Instagram. That's so interesting. I've noticed that. You know, and. And for sure, in this industry, I think that the industry in general, the wine industry, is slow to take that up. And this is one of the complaints, you know, you. You grasp it.

12:18 Why? Because you think you're a star or something or. No. I tell you, wine is alcohol. And alcohol lately has a very tough time when we think about the birthplace, such as France. And it. Communication, advertising of alcohol is forbidden. And this is very sad. Not because of the term alcohol, but wine is part of every country's culture. That's true. And in America, you're allowed to advertise drugs. Good point. Billboards on the freeway. And what about wine? Yeah. Just because it falls under the category. And of course, it has been seen as a drug. It has damaged a lot of people or whatever. But wine goes with food. Wine is not something that you like a Whiskey consume on its own. Wine is culture.

13:08 And there needs to be, of course, a limitation to it. Well, I have this theory and I bring it up all the time, and that is if you were to take, let's just say, five elements of a culture. Language, if you have a language. Land. If you have land. I'm Armenian. We have land. The food, the music and the wine. I agree with you. This part of the definition of your culture. And it's tradition. It's an expression. Yes. In the Austrian tradition with the grapes you have there, is it part of the culture? Absolutely. I mean, when you go to Austria, all the restaurants serve you Austrian wines, but of course, they're very international. We are a very small country. But when we talk about Austrian wines, we have some very local grapes, Grunewaldline, which has its origin in Austria, Blau Frankisch. I mean, these are all Austrian homegrown grape varieties that around the world are being faced with great respect and. And we celebrate that. I've seen recently there was a tasting here in la, not too far from here, that it was mostly Gruner and what a wide variety of styles that were coming from that part. And I absolutely. From the.

14:21 From what you call supermarket versions to very elegant, sophisticated versions. I was stunned by that. And, you know, breaking a new grape. And again, I'm Armenian, so they're trying to bring grapes. Armenian grapes. Adoni, Voskahad, Kangun, all these crazy names. I've made glasses for them. Oh, have you? Yes, yes, yes, yes. I even made recently a decanter that you can see with the Armenian flag on my Instagram. So we do this. Why did that happen? We do that because, first of all, the wine culture is aware that a glass can make a difference. They see it also as a vehicle for communication. Advertisement meaning we're making glasses for Dom perignon, croque, champagne, etc. But why not make it for local grape varieties like Saparabi from Georgia? So we have done that with great respect and great success. So we're doing this to, of course, also work ourselves into some local markets. Are you the first of the generations then, that has reached out to, you know, to facilitate this kind of, like I say, flexibility, but sort of this approach to doing things like finding grapes, like Otany and producing grapes. Grapes, Glasses around the style. Well, it was initiated by my dad. He was the first interesting project that we had. Let's not only talk about wine because we make glasses for nearly every beverage. And he was invited by the government of Tequila. I'm not saying Mexico.

15:44 I'm saying tequila because obviously the quila, it's a stage. And they invited him. And the president of Mexico gave him a medal of honor for making the very first glass for tequila. Not to get wasted over it in form of a shot, but to enjoy it, like fine wine. And it's amazing. I mean, nowadays we talk more about reposado and angejo than about blanco. Well, it is a properly made tequila. Fine tequila is really more like a brandy. You sip it. Amazing. And you swirl it and you smell it. If you have it in a proper glass, you can smell it. It's amazing. You know, actually, that brings up the interesting point.

16:24 Since your father was honored by the state of tequila, I mean, you've sat with and been to and discussed the trade with some of the greatest minds in this business. Sure. You've seen. Is there something. I mean, I know I have an answer for the question, but do you see a unifying thread of these in the intellect of people that do this with such, I guess, importance? Well, yes and no. It depends on the country. It depends on the different producers. Some of the producers that we all know have become very cocky because they have made it and they think that they are at the height. But you know, when you are getting the chance to sit with some humble people, like Robert de Vilain from de Mont de Romelu Conti, he is the most kind, most gentle person.

17:21 Person. He reminds me very much of Robert Mondavi. He's open for any kind of question, any kind of discussion. And I'm always invited and I feel very honored. Every December in Paris when they release the new vintage underground. It's truly underground for a very small group of people. I've been invited ever since, and it fascinates me to talk about a wine that the whole world knows and respects. Maybe some of them even sees it as the best wine in the world. And the people behind it stay so humble. And I love that. It's such a. Just as a tangent to that. I sold some real estate. It was a rather large transaction for me anyway. And at the end of the transaction, and this is just before it closes, it's. A couple years ago, I had promised the buyer a bottle of DRC Latash. Fantastic. And he was there the next day. You know, this is a big enough transaction where the money came from Japan to build these apartments, whatever it was. He was there the next day at my office and said, where's my wine? Fantastic. I go, you went through all this two years with this headache and you're worried about the wine. Closed the deal. It closed the deal. Imagine, totally close the deal. It's such an iconic beverage. Yes. And if you've never had it, I tell you, you will not be disappointed. But the expectations might be very high as well. At the end, it's a great bottle of wine made in. In a way that most wines are made. But what makes the difference is

18:53 terroir is the dirt on which the vines grow. They get the energy and they make the best wines. Is that what your glassware? And I actually was sitting with Mariam Sakatalian at a little wine shop called Envino in Yerevan, Armenia, and she had just gotten whatever certification you offer for study it. Yes, Ambassador. Real ambassador. Ambassador. Right. So she excited about that, and she says, you know, we have a great. A glass for Ottomy. And I thought. I thought, that's really cool. And we discussed that. But is that what the objective would be then, when you sit down with varietal, to find the shape that best expresses its terroir, where it's coming from? Like, does it feel like. I just tasted Armenian wine yesterday, it was sent to me and I tasted the minerality that comes from that part of the world. It doesn't always happen. Yeah, yeah. Is that the objective of. Well, the objective is the DNA of the grape variety. My glasses don't change because the vintage changes or the blend goes 1% up or down. It is the DNA of the grape that determines the shape of the glass. This is exactly what. When we develop a new shape for a specific grape variety, we never do it on our own. We always surround ourselves with some of the bigger and smaller winemakers from a particular region. A lot of wine is made in different styles. That's also very important to understand. So we want to cover all the styles. And so it's a tough job.

20:27 Nothing is done on a computer. Trial and error. It's all about smell, taste, mouth, feel, texture, aftertaste. And we can only do this with the true influences of wine, which to me, are the winemakers. Is this a group inside Riedel? You know, it's like Michelin guide. You know, it's the same people that go around or you're sitting. It's me and it was my dad before, and before that, it's my grandfather. We are blessed with a good palate. Yes. I mean, if we wouldn't have our senses, we couldn't do the job. No. It's interesting, though, because last night, as I was tasting and writing notes for this Armenian winemaker, I've known this of myself before. I'm not great at determining and talking about fruit impressions or equating it to satsuma plum, stuff like that. But I did notice that my palate is really good at structure, like understanding the flow and the transition and the length of the finish, all those kinds of things that happen with the structure. And I suppose you see that as well, where people's interpretation of what your glass is doing have different impressions on what they're doing. Absolutely.

21:30 But we try to keep them tamed because obviously if I say it's sour and somebody says no, it's sweet, then we have an issue that's a problem. Do you think that this is the intimidating part of wine or the aristocracy of wine that these generations supposedly, which you and I have been watching the news, listening to people on LinkedIn, et cetera, that, you know, the Gen Z's don't want this, they just want to have an experience. Do you agree with that? So I tell you my personal point of view. It's very personal. I think that some of the fine dining world restaurants have taken too much advantage of fine wine in the sense that they see this as a money maker. And a good example is when we talk about wine lists, people getting awards for it. For me, what is a good wine list, of course, is an assortment of different grape varieties from different countries. But most important is the fair price.

22:38 And that's where we are right now, the fair price. It cannot be that I pay for the same bottle of wine. And I know because of my global distribution about import tax and duty, so nobody needs to fool me on that. It cannot be that. In a country like France, for example, Dom Perignon is double the price than it is in Los Angeles. That's a ripoff. Good. There's absolutely no reason, there is no excuse for that. And it needs to be pointed out. So you can see you just poked me the right way because I feel that the young gener doesn't have the access to fine wine because it has gotten too expensive. And we have to reconsider that. I rather pay for the chef's creation a wonderful plate of food more than being overpaying for wine. There is no sense behind this. Why do I have to go through a three star Michelin restaurant and pay triple the price on a bottle of wine? You're right. If you want to cover the cost, which is absolutely fair and you should do so, but put it in a into the price point of either service or the food because that's what you're famous for. Don't try to steal it by increasing the wine prices to a point where it's not fun anymore to drink wine, it's absolutely right. And I think the best evidence of that is you can probably go in this neighborhood and go to three different restaurants and find considerably different prices for the same bottle of wine. Absolutely. And there is, for me, always. How. Should I call it?

24:07 A benchmark. There are three, four wines around the world that every wine list carries. And based on that, I see if the restaurant is overcharging for wine or not. And this. Sometimes it gets to a point where I only would like to drink water just to send a signal. Good, yes, I can afford it, but I don't want to because it's not fair. And I think that this is one of the main drivers. And if I ask my nephews who are brought up in a restaurant dining environment, and imagine the boys are between 19 and 21, obviously in Europe, they're allowed to drink alcohol at that age. And I asked them, so how was this and that experience? Yes. And I said, so what did you drink with it? Well, we had maybe one cocktail or water.

24:53 And I said, how is that possible? Well, we know everything about wine because we grew up in this family, but why should we be ripped off? I mean, imagine how sad that is. So I don't think that there is this overwhelming trend against alcohol seen as being the worst, and it's damaging, which of course, if you over access it, do it, it is. But I think it's a question of budget and fairness. I think that has a lot to do with it. And there's a. Actually, what's interesting, that more wine was sold in the US Last year than the year before. So whatever the consumption issues are doesn't seem to be real when it comes out to the numbers. But then I talked to a restaurant the other day, a restaurateur, and he had hired a new somme, thinking that was his problem. You'll laugh at this because his. His bottle sales are off 40%. And, you know, that's substantial. Wow. You know, tasting room traffic. For instance, I was with, you know, a very famous wine winery last week, and she was saying that their. Their tasting room Traffic is off 20 or 30%, which is a very important part of their business. But regardless, this restaurant. So this guy was changing the psalm because the sales were. I said, what about your waiters and your servers? What do they do? Because they don't know. Well, maybe that's part of the problem, is that you're not training the waiter staff to understand what they have in front of them. Absolutely. And one of the things that happens now, and it drives me crazy, maybe you, too, is they talk about the changing the language of wine. My father had his things. My God,

26:26 I'm getting that on social media. Big thing. I don't understand what that means. Yeah, yeah. Because my dad's language, he would cringe at some of the stuff I would say, but that just means he's in a different generation. And I'll cringe at what my kids say. And the evidence of that is yesterday at this restaurant, the one I was telling you about, they organized the wine list by the following categories. Not Cabernet Pinot Noir. It was big and vivacious, light and airy. And so my wife loves Bordeaux varietals, whether it's Napa or Bordeaux, Me too. And so I had to go to each section to see where they had put those wines. Yeah. And I thought, that doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. But I also have to say that there's a big discussion calling a wine feminine or masculine. Oh, no. And I never use those terms to express my palette or to talk about wine, but I think it's going. It's getting too far. You know, if some countries, if some people, whatever, want to express the style of a wine in a certain way, so be it. I think we don't need to go too far. Wine should not be discriminated. Do you think that this generation is then going to understand.

27:37 Well, you just explained that you really don't think that's the problem. So that's. I mean, that's my personal. That's a good thing. You see it every day. And it's an important. Yeah, I have three millennials and their millennial husbands, and they very much appreciate a good glass of wine. And maybe it's because of our culture at home. Yes. It's just part of our culture. Absolutely. But I can't point to them as evidence as to whether the messaging is out there or not. So you're on social, which, you know, there's. Do you remember. Do you. Do you ever know the TV show Bewitched? It was a true. Okay, sure. And in those days. Right. Larry Tate, the advertising guy, you go in, you get the pitch, they have the easel, they do the drawings, they come up with a slogan, and then that was. That was marketing. Yes. You have no place else to go today. I mean, you're probably in. In the main trade mags.

28:28 Trying to sell your wares. But really social is where you have to be. You have to be. You have to be no matter what you do, no matter what you try to communicate, what you try to sell, and especially if you want to find a niche, how to communicate with the next generation, which is so important because. There'S a new brand out. I'm going to say it. It's called Whiny Baby, and she's coming on the show in the next couple weeks. And I want to push a little bit as to what. And this is a Gen Z thing. Now, your grandfather and your father. My dad in his wine shop, we used to sell this piece of tape that you'd put over the label, and that's when people sort of wanted to collect labels and put it in their seller book. And. Yes, I remember those things. All those things. Right? Yeah. Especially with Chateau Mouton. Yeah, yeah, of course with the labels. But this Whiny Baby is very interesting.

29:19 This is a Gen Z brand. The whole point of it is you can write on the label who you drank this with and when you drank it and what occasion, and you peel that off. And I thought, well, that's not new. You know, your father was doing it. My father was doing it. But you know what? I think any kind of innovation that goes into our beautiful industry helps. And if she starts communicating this in the proper way, maybe others will pick up on this trend. I wish for it because it would be so sad to imagine go into a restaurant trying to socialize and not have a glass of wine in your hands, which. Yeah, I mean, everybody. Wine speaks to people differently, but it calms me down, you know, it makes me relaxed, and that's what I need after a busy day. I mean, I'm not doing home office. I've never done it. I'm too busy. My job doesn't allow it. So I need to unwind, and I like to do this over a glass of wine. Fine.

30:15 It's very hard to do, by the way, just so you know, because I. I transitioning out of. I have an office still, too. I have a studio in an office, and I have to go there. I can't sit at the house. No, I couldn't. Even though I have all the horsepower there that I need, I can't do it now. My daughter who works for Apple, during COVID she was. She came out of the retail world of Apple, and she was interviewing for a job that was solely from the house. Whose house? My house. She would leave her house to come to my house to be. Make that our house became her office. I thought, wait a minute, didn't you move out a few years ago? So what do you.

30:55 You're. You're relentless on social, and you're traveling the world. You're taking your kids to Aspen. You're showing them the world this way, which is great. Well, it's not only Aspen. We started the US Tour in Denver a couple days ago. We. We moved from Denver up. Up to. Through the Independence Pass. I mean, I'm a European, and I've done it already five times. I don't know how many Americans have been up to an Independence Pass, which is very impressive. I wanted to show that to my kids. Us coming from the mountains of Austria, we have been to Aspen. We did fly fishing. We went to the Smuggler Mine. We had had so many activities. Wow. Aspen in the summer, to me is even better than in the winter, because snow I got at home myself. Yeah, that's right. And now we're in la. We're here for a couple of days, then we're moving up to Napa Valley. Kids are for the second time in Napa. They love it up there. And then we end up in San Francisco. And they love to go in San Francisco through, obviously, what we tourists do. We're going for the second time to Alcatraz, really, before it's turned back to prison.

31:53 Hopefully it doesn't. And of course, this is, for me, culture. It's culture for them. And I like them to explore because that's exactly what my parents did with me in the 1980s. Obviously, the world was very different then, but imagine what they're going to tell their kids. Yeah, right. So that's what it's all about, storytelling. It's the new world. And I have this conversation quite frequently as an American. I'm a Francophile. I learned French from my father because he spoke French, and I want to speak French with him. And then I'm reading a book now on the last Empress of France, Eugenie, you know, and I'm enamored by this history. Josephine Baker. I mean, I'm enamored by these things. And I find it fascinating because I'm looking at the old world going, wow, how structured, how interesting. This Appalachian control. A. And there's, you know, there's protection of the butter, protection of the wine, protection of cheese. But America's a new world. I mean, you've. It's. And we love it. I tell you, it's still the land of opportunity, especially for my brand. We have so much room to grow.

32:59 And I lived in America for 15 years. I got the opportunity to build a company here, and wow, I didn't know that. And I think we're the only brand that is from tea to tea, which means from Tiffany's to Target. So, you know, that's part of this conversation. That's a big. A big achievement because everybody still wants, in my eyes, to enjoy wine at the best. And wherever wine is being sold, Riedel is not allowed to be missed. Did you. Was that your doing or your father's doing that Riedel became part of the luxury world? I mean, it seems to me that it wasn't founded on a luxury product. It was founded on glassware. But, well, I think everything that is not really necessary to survive is part of luxury. Good. Let's put it this way. So glass always is seen as luxury. The origins of Riedel were in the jewelry, glass jewelry business, coming out of Bohemia in the chandelier and light business. And so it slowly ventured into wine and glass.

33:58 And yeah, when we talk about the average price of a bottle of wine in restaurants, you can still relate to it as a luxury. And, yes, that's why we, I believe, are part of this kind of industry. You know, I just thought of an experience, and I think glassware ties into this. Not only does wine, when you go to Italy, you go to France or you go to Austria, and you have that glass of wine that turns your head. And every time you get that wine, it's the reason why people join wine clubs is that they went to a winery and they now get that box and they go back to that day. And I just realized I have that same experience with glassware. I don't think. I don't think there's rle, but we went to an auction in Paris, and I bought martini glasses from George Sank, the Four Seasons Hotel at an auction. And I have to tell you, every time I pull that out and I make a martini, it's a reflection.

34:54 It changes your mood. Yes. Like you were saying. Yeah, it's really special. And I think the luxury version of the luxury aspect of a fine glassware, of a real glassware has that same feeling, has that same sort of, you know, I'm not. Not I've arrived, but I feel like I'm something special by doing this. Well, it. I think it's the beverage in the glass that makes you feel like that. Well, that's true. But of course, real, we produce machine made, we produce handmade, mouth blown. So we are one of the last unicorns out there that really is capable of shaping glass the way it can be shaped by machine or by hand. And sadly, this kind of craft of handmade is dying because people don't want to work in a factory environment anymore. And if that is the case, then say goodbye to handmade products, not only in the world of fine glass, but in general. So that's, that's. I have to be the ambassador of communicating also the importance of crystal, of glass, the element, the product not only related to wine. And this is also where I use social media for that. I mean, what are you fighting daily when you wake up? Your. Your goal is to continue to tell. The world to stay alive, is to stay alive, keep. Keep my kids motivated. Going to school. And of course, since I've lived in America for such a long time and I've had my group, my crew of close to 100 employees, the most important

36:25 thing as an entrepreneur, if you can't do it on your own, is to motivate your people. Yeah. And. And that's my rule number one. I always want to come with a smile on my face, on my lips, into the matter, how tough the times are. I need to be the one who motivates the group. They have to be inspired by your story. They are. And I appreciate the time today to hear the story. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I look forward to the seminar and I look forward to seeing you out on social. Yes. Appreciate it. It's very nice. Thank you. And by the way, if anybody has any questions, please look me up on maxireedle. R I E D E L I'm the one who answers all the questions personally on my Instagram, which is close to now 600,000 followers. I guess most of the people are food and wine lovers, and I love to chat and I love to be inspired. Wow. That's phenomenal. Appreciate it.

37:17 I'm going to test that. Good. Okay. Cheers. Thank you for coming. Cheers. Take care.