Did Dr. Jan Krupp Abandon Medicine for a Vineyard Gamble That Changed Napa Forever?

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Being a doctor is satisfying in some ways, but in a

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lot of other ways, it's not so creative. And so I love the

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idea of planting a vineyard and hopefully succeeding in growing

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some of the world's best grapes. And it's just the challenge of it and

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the pleasure of creating wines that were really good

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and growing fruit that better and more famous

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winemakers really loved. Sit back and grab a

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glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul

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Kaye. Hey, welcome to Wine Talks

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with Paul Kaye. And we are in studio today in beautiful Southern California, about to

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have a conversation with Dr. Jan Krupp up in the Napa

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Valley. Let me read what ChatGPT wrote when I asked it for

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75 words on, uh, Dr. Krupp. And that would be,

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what makes someone trade a successful medical career for a

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mountain of volcanic rock everyone else considered worthless?

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Dr. Jan Krupp did exactly that and transformed the unplantable corner of

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Napa Valley into Stagecoach Vineyards, one of California's most celebrated

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sources of wine grapes. Today, the physician turned vintner

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joins Wine Talks to reveal the risks, relentless work, family

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partnership, and fearless vision behind Krupp Brothers and the

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extraordinary gamble that helped reshape modern Napa Valley wine. How about that,

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huh? Welcome to the show. I like that a lot, Paul. I guess I should

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use ChatGPT more. Welcome to the show. Thank

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you. Thanks very much for having me on the show. Like I mentioned, we're supposed

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to be up there right now. And just, I had to agree with my wife

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about not traveling, you know, 2 days after a large

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wedding in the family. And I suppose she was right.

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Well, glad to hear that. Hopefully you'll be able to visit Napa in the

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near future. Well, we do, we do plan on coming up pretty soon.

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Because I really prefer, and for the most case,

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Proper, um, uh, podcasting, but it's really hard in, in the Napa Valley

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because I never know what environment I'm gonna get. So when I

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come up there with my microphones and the cameras, and then they put me in

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a little dark room, or they put it in a room next to the, you

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know, the processors, you have the air conditioners going on. And so

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this, this is more secure when we do something virtual, but

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then I also like to shake people's hands and stuff. But let's,

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Let's talk about what you've done. You've got a book coming out called Forging

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Eden, and it's about the

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transformation. It seems like it's a story of your career in the wine trade, or

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are we talking about just Stagecoach Vineyards? What's the book about?

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Yeah, the book is about how I evolved from a physician with a

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successful practice into, as you said, creating one of Napa's most

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iconic vineyards. And then pursuing my hobby of

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making wine, buying a small winery, really being able to focus on

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that after I sold Stagecoach. For 17 years before I

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started planting vineyards, I was a home winemaker. One of my professors taught me

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how to make award-winning wine at, in medical school, and I continued

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with it and loved it so much I decided I need to do more of

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it. That's a, I didn't catch that part,

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the home winemaking part, which is certainly

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very popular. There's places you can buy home winemaking kit,

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uh, apparatus. And my brother-in-law, you know, my

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brother-in-law, he, in fact, it was his son that got married. Uh-huh. Um,

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was up in Napa years ago and they were planting

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saplings at Silver Oak and he pulled over and the guy gave him like 6

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saplings and he propagated them here in Glendale, California.

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And he's been dying to, uh, to taste what he's created. Uh-huh.

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I'm not sure I'm so excited about it, but he's— but

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what, so how did that happen? Was that because fermentation sciences when you

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were in medical school, and that was at Yale, correct? Or is that with Stanford?

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Well, that was where I was an undergraduate. When I was at Stanford, one of

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my professors was really good at teaching a good friend of mine and me

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how to, how to save people. We got to be friends and he said,

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you know, Jan, I can teach you and Keith how to make wine better than

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most of what you can buy. And so that was an offer I couldn't

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refuse. And for 17 years, my friends and I made wine.

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And the first few wines,

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we weren't, they really weren't better than what we could buy, but

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our wines got better and better. And I

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love doing it. I also always have had an orchard and a big vegetable garden.

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And so it was nice to able to do more of both

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in Napa. It's kind of interesting because it is, I

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mean, it is science. Let me ask you this question then.

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It always fascinates me that there's that homegrown, not necessarily, I

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don't mean in your garage homegrown, but I mean this, the cellar, right? The cellar

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rat type progression through into professional winemaking.

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You, you don't need to go to UC Davis necessarily to

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understand winemaking and make good wine. You can learn it in your

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garage. That's true. You sure can. And there are many

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examples, as you know, Annette, of winemakers who never went

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to Davis or Fresno or Cornell and make really good wine.

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So I, yeah, we got better and better at making it in our

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garage, and each one of my friends was able to contribute something

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different. Some of 'em were really good at hauling barrels. The

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cardiologist was great at cleaning up our act. And after he did

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that, we would win best of shows pretty frequently. So it

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was, it was a really a, a good group of friends, a lot of fun.

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The wines got better and better, and eventually I wanted to do more of it

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than, than just in my garage. Well, you, you, you talk about in the

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synopsis of your book about this idea that the,

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medical profession was— I'm not gonna say it got boring. I'm gonna say that

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it seemed like you were not getting the fulfillment out of it that you had

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hoped, or that maybe you had, but was slipping and,

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you know, making a career change from something as stable as the medical

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field. Well, maybe not today, but, you know, those days. Of course. And,

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and moving into a really risky environment,

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was purchasing the vineyard The

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first thought, you, you, there wasn't a thought of necessarily creating the most iconic vineyard

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in, in the valley necessarily at that point. It was just to have something.

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It, it was a, a set of small steps, Paul. You know,

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as you, we've talked about the home winemaking and the, the home orchard

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were the first step and wanting to do more of it. I started looking

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for property that I could plant. Love planting things that grow and produce

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fruit. And I found 41 acres high up on

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the mountain, high up on Atlas Peak in Napa. And that was

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an undiscovered area back in 1990. So

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part of what gave me the courage to make the full transition

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was that I had experimented on a small scale. I built a house

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there, planted 23 acres of grapes to

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start. And that was very successful. We were

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making money at it. Famous winemakers really wanted the grapes. We had a

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waiting list. Wow. So between that small

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success and dealing with a lot of rocks even there, and between

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being able to help and occasionally save patients that other doctors

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threw up their hands, needed help figuring it out, and

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just a sense of confidence that I probably gained from my parents,

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I figured I would tackle it. I wanted to do more than the

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41. One day I saw a poster on a telephone

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pole for 750 acres and I thought, well, this is crazy.

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That's a big jump. But— Wow. Yeah, it

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was. And that's just part of Stagecoach now.

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But I, you know, I started getting viticultural

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consultants to look at it. I enlisted my brother who's always been very

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successful to be a major partner. not only financially,

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but with really good ideas. I brought

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winemakers up to see if they'd want the grapes and

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explained what I was gonna do. And so it was a jump from 41

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to 750, and we weren't gonna plant it all at once. We were just gonna

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plant 200. And it was a big, big step. You're

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right. A lot of banks turned me down to get a loan. Well,

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let's back the trolley up a little bit. You were seeking

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And I'll tell you an interesting concept because right here is my father.

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This picture's from his painting, but it's a picture in 1975 in our wine shop.

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Wow. In Palos Verdes Estates. And one of the things that grew

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the Wine of the Month Club, which started there in 1972, was that

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he would visit, he would take a booth to a show and he would go

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to the legal shows and doctor shows and boat shows

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and gun shows. And there was a lot of interest when he went to the

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professional shows like the doctors and the dentists and whatever was going on.

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And I'm wondering if that lifestyle, because

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of the elevated social environment that doctors are in and

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dentists and in the legal profession, is it a lifestyle

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that you were seeking? This idea of, or just

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the idea of making wine was just interesting to you as your scientific

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curiosity. But sometimes it's just the idea that I get my own

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brand, I'm gonna have my big château, and I'm gonna act like a— Yeah.

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No, that wasn't my motivation. I, you know, being a doctor is

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satisfying in some ways, but in a lot of other ways it's not so creative.

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And so I love the idea of planting a vineyard and hopefully

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succeeding in growing some of the world's best grapes, hopefully growing fruit

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that could make wines like Ridge-Monobello or Château Margaux.

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And it's just the challenge of it and the pleasure of

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of creating wines that were really good and growing fruit that

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better and more famous winemakers really loved.

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So just looking for another success and a new challenge. My medical

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practice at first was very challenging. I went to a

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community without many subspecialists, and so I often

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had to solve problems that in Glendale, an infectious disease

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doctor or an endocrinologist might solve. And eventually the community got more

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mature. But I guess I love challenges despite

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the stress of overcoming them. I do love the creativity

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of planting a vineyard. It's just from the ground

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up and hopefully producing world-class fruit. I like

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the creativity of making wine, and my scientific

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background helps with both. Did you know what that meant when you

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started this? What a— what— see if we can drill down to this

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definition, world's best grapes. Did that have meaning to you

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before you started this, or did the world's best grapes come around? It's kind of

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like the movie Elf, you know, yeah, world's best coffee, and everybody, you know, what,

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what, but what does that mean? I, I guess, um,

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what it meant to me, Paul, is that when I was, um,

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when I did my military service for 2 years in Phoenix, I worked in the

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Public Health Service there, And so I had a lot of extra time to

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cook with my friends and have, have pair wines,

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French wine and American wine at each dinner once a month.

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I also was graced by the

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drive-up wine shop where the guy got really wonderful wines

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like Château Margaux and Mouton. And for

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some reason they were pretty cheap. I learned later that he didn't pay his taxes

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and ended up in jail. I guess that was one of the reasons. Love

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that. But I, I really loved what I was trying from

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him. And I guess I've got a pretty good palate and I can tell

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the difference whether it's a ripe peach or, you know, a, a crummy

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peach. And I also applied that to wines. I just

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like excellence and I like great stuff. And

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I guess I, I tasted it there and I thought, I'd like to do this

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someday. But when, when was that? approximately?

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Wow. Long time ago. That was in the early '70s. And then after that,

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I went back to Stanford and that professor taught me how

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to make wine. And for years, we

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just tried to make better and better wine and wine that you could really

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enjoy drinking and that would win awards. And

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when I started out to plant a vineyard, I talked

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to some of my friends who had vineyards that produced really great fruit.

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And I said, I'd really love to do this. I'd really love a backyard

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vineyard and my medical practice. I thought I'd have both when I bought the

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41 acres, and the vineyard kind of got away from me,

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as you know. You know, we were, uh, I was asked to appraise

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a, um, a cellar not too long ago down the street from here

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in Arcadia. And I went into the cellar and unfortunately it was,

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uh, just completely mismanaged. There was no air conditioning. The provenance

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of all these wines was terrible. The labels were moldy. And so I told the

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family, I said, Uh, just, you know, open a bottle and drink

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it in your father's memory. And if it's no good, open another one because there's

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no chance of selling it. But, but they had, he had collected

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so long ago that he had a bottle of Petrus that he bought from Trader

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Joe's that had a sticker of $19.95

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on it. Wow. So I don't know

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if it was any good or I'm sure it was no good at all. No

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good. Whatever. So this, You know,

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there's, there's this jumping off point like Jim Barrett from Château

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Montelena. He, when they won the Judgment of Paris in

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1976, he didn't leave his law practice until

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1983 or '86 or something like, well, 8 to 10 years later.

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When did you decide, well, maybe I need to focus

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full-time on this? After you bought the 750? Yeah.

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After I bought the 750 and we had a, a list

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of really good wineries buying the grapes, and we were starting to develop a waiting

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list of wineries. And we, you know, it looks like

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it was going to be a really profitable venture.

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And I got really busy with that. I loved working on

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up on the mountain with my crew and checking for grapevine

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diseases and brainstorming with them what row direction to

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plant the grapes and what varietal to plant in which area and talking

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to consultants and winemakers trying to get it right. And it was just

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kind of all-engrossing. It became the center of my life.

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And once it really started going and making

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some money, I figured I'd rather do this full-time.

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Are you married? I am married. And was she—

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were you towing her along or was she pushing back? What was going on in

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that relationship? That's a good question. Well, look,

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Well, I'd only go through the same thing myself, so what the hell? Okay. So

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my first wife, I was towing her along and she

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thought this would be a great opportunity. And we sold our house in

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Orinda and built a house in Napa and planted the

237
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vineyard. And after about 4 or 5

238
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years of that, she said, you know, I really don't like this.

239
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I'd like to move with you to San Francisco or Piedmont. And if

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you don't want to move, I'll probably file for divorce. Wow.

241
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And, you know, I think the marriage wasn't so solid in other

242
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respects, Paul, to be honest. So I said,

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well, I thought about it a long time. And I said, well, if you want

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to file, go ahead. I really have found my roots here. And

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I'm not moving to a city. No pun intended about the

246
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roots. So, wow, that's a What a

247
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serious thing. I don't usually talk about those kinds of things on the podcast,

248
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but that's so important to a decision you

249
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had to make because maybe you would've made a different decision. You wouldn't have

250
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experienced this amazing growth and the lifestyle of the Napa

251
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Valley. Yeah, it was a critical decision.

252
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And if the marriage were perfect in every other respect

253
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or really good, I might have gone with her back to an urban

254
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environment. But it was just a good time to,

255
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to split up and to focus on grapevines. And at that point,

256
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the wine, the 750 had been purchased and you had

257
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planted it. Had you produced grapes yet? What at that point? Yeah,

258
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at that point when she gave me that

259
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ultimatum, I had just found the 750

260
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and I was really loving the 41 acres.

261
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So it was kind of a dream. I didn't know that I could

262
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find partners with money and banks and

263
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customers, but it was a dream that really grabbed hold

264
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of me. And I— so

265
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she left. The divorce was unpleasant. And

266
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about 3 years after I started Stagecoach, I just

267
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didn't want to go down the mountain anymore to my medical practice. I said, this

268
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is wonderful being up here. in the open air with all these grapes.

269
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A lot of great customers, great workforce, good

270
00:17:53,020 --> 00:17:56,620
consultants. It was, for me, it was paradise, Paul. You know,

271
00:17:56,780 --> 00:17:59,580
that's, that's an interesting perspective.

272
00:18:00,860 --> 00:18:04,300
And I, I'm sure it was much different then than it is today. And, you

273
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know, certainly parts of Napa Valley are criticized

274
00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:12,060
for wealthy Los Angelians coming up and thinking

275
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they wanna be part of this lifestyle and realizing that, you know, building a big

276
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:18,790
château isn't the end of the world. And by the way, you have to sell

277
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this stuff once you make it. And this is not so easy. Right. And

278
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so, but here's a real organic approach to it. You

279
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know, you started small, you wanted to see how it went. You,

280
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you kind of bucked the system in the first place by even thinking that you

281
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could plant grapes in that environment. And I have a slug

282
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full of Atlas Peak wines in my in my cellar now that I

283
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,840
bought during COVID that I just adore because of the terroir and

284
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the complexity of the wines. But you did it

285
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organically. You did it because you loved it, not because you thought

286
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,440
this would be the most lucrative thing you ever pulled off, right? No. You weren't

287
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,280
even sure of that probably at the point. No, you're right. I wasn't even sure

288
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,200
it would succeed, especially with that first vineyard. And that's why I kept the

289
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,810
medical practice for I started planting that first

290
00:19:11,050 --> 00:19:14,810
vineyard in '91, bought it in '90, and I didn't leave my

291
00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:18,010
medical practice completely until 1998. So,

292
00:19:18,810 --> 00:19:22,010
so did you see— have you seen even that short time, because I'll call that

293
00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:25,690
short time, the vineyards in Napa have been around 100 years, but

294
00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:30,010
did you— have you seen a commercial transition

295
00:19:31,210 --> 00:19:34,850
of winemaking and the

296
00:19:35,090 --> 00:19:38,770
approach to hospitality evolve in, in

297
00:19:38,930 --> 00:19:42,690
Napa Valley? 'Cause right now it's kind of tough. It

298
00:19:42,850 --> 00:19:46,690
is kind of tough. I think, um, for a long time, as, as

299
00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:49,970
you know, uh, overseas wineries were buying

300
00:19:50,930 --> 00:19:54,770
places and, um, it was growing, it was getting kind of

301
00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:58,850
commercial. Um, and now it's gotten tough for a lot of people and,

302
00:19:59,090 --> 00:20:02,770
and people are selling and, and don't wanna be here anymore, at least some of

303
00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:06,580
'em. I wonder, I wonder why that is, because I

304
00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:10,100
think, I think the Napa Valley, you know, the flag wavers of the early days,

305
00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:13,940
the Mondavis and the Christian Brothers and the Martinis.

306
00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:19,140
And I just, I just had another thought that you are right. There are some

307
00:20:20,020 --> 00:20:23,700
foreign investors coming in, wineries, the French have bought up

308
00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:27,700
some stuff. Right, right. But the one that rings a bell, the

309
00:20:27,780 --> 00:20:31,460
Cathiards, you know, the Florence Cathiard and Château Smith

310
00:20:31,460 --> 00:20:34,980
Haut-Lavigne, I think they're more, more like you when they started in Bordeaux.

311
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,000
they had the same sort of vision and dream and

312
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,840
organic love of it. And that's why they came to Napa Valley. But I don't

313
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,440
think that's always the case. And to get to this point,

314
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,520
which is work, we come up all the time and it's gotten— it

315
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,360
doesn't seem like the cost of the tasting rooms has

316
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,200
been reflective in this decrease in tourism. The cost of the

317
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,800
hotels don't seem to be going down. It just seems like—

318
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:06,580
just less people are coming and tasting room traffic is lower

319
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:11,380
and there's just no anticipation of, of

320
00:21:11,540 --> 00:21:14,820
trying to change that. Is it, what do you guys, is there conversation in the

321
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:18,100
back room? There are conversations. A lot of my

322
00:21:18,740 --> 00:21:22,100
colleagues in the wine industry do think the hotels are too

323
00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:25,940
pricey. Some of us are reducing our fees for

324
00:21:26,020 --> 00:21:29,230
tasting. We have at our winery, made a substantial

325
00:21:29,710 --> 00:21:33,310
reduction. And there is some of that going

326
00:21:33,550 --> 00:21:37,390
on, which is good. I think, Paul, that is part of the problem. The

327
00:21:37,470 --> 00:21:40,990
other part of the problem, I think, as you know, is that health

328
00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:45,310
recommendations have changed. Mm-hmm. Young people are drinking less

329
00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:48,990
wine than they used to. So I think there are a lot of

330
00:21:49,150 --> 00:21:52,830
factors, but, but Napa did get kind of commercial and too

331
00:21:53,070 --> 00:21:56,780
pricey for many, many people. And— It

332
00:21:56,940 --> 00:22:00,780
just, I, well, one of the, here's the conversation I had with,

333
00:22:01,180 --> 00:22:04,940
with one of the vintners, the younger side, but they

334
00:22:05,020 --> 00:22:08,540
have built, again, went to the Valley not

335
00:22:09,260 --> 00:22:12,380
to seek fame and fortune, but to seek a lifestyle. And

336
00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:16,860
their tasting room manager told me this and see if it jives, that the

337
00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:19,660
hotels have decided almost, you know,

338
00:22:21,180 --> 00:22:24,930
decisively to live with a 30% occupancy,

339
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:29,250
keep the prices high, live with a more skeleton crew,

340
00:22:29,890 --> 00:22:33,730
maybe less full-timers, so you pay less in wages and all

341
00:22:33,810 --> 00:22:37,250
the rest of it, and live at that level

342
00:22:38,290 --> 00:22:41,650
than to lower the prices, increase occupancy,

343
00:22:42,770 --> 00:22:46,530
and run that one, run with a full staff. And what that does eventually, if

344
00:22:46,530 --> 00:22:50,380
less people come, then there's less tasting room traffic. There's

345
00:22:50,380 --> 00:22:53,900
less dollars to go around. Restaurants. I mean, some of the restaurants in

346
00:22:53,980 --> 00:22:56,860
Yountville closed. Right.

347
00:22:57,980 --> 00:23:01,820
And even JCB, you know, walk from that Atelier there, the

348
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:05,740
tasting, the tasting room we had. So I just find it, and I

349
00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:09,260
find personally, I think these are just adjustments.

350
00:23:10,460 --> 00:23:14,180
Where's wine gonna go? It's been around for how many years? It's gonna stay

351
00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:18,180
around, don't you think, Paul? 6,000-something years. But,

352
00:23:18,340 --> 00:23:22,180
and I think that's rooted in what you're doing. Thank you.

353
00:23:22,260 --> 00:23:26,100
And that is producing an honest glass of wine that

354
00:23:26,180 --> 00:23:29,540
I think regardless of the neo-prohibitionists and the packaging

355
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:33,060
changes and all the things that go into, you know, modern marketing,

356
00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:38,500
never changes. What you're doing never changes. I agree.

357
00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:42,120
I agree with you. Yeah. I think every— go ahead.

358
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,160
There'll always be a demand for that type of wine.

359
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,120
And I think it's unfortunate that the hotels are kind of shooting

360
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,160
themselves and the rest of us in the feet. You know,

361
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,480
it just seems to me that even the Gen Zers, the millennials, I mean, I

362
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,080
raised 3 millennials. They love wine, maybe because of my trade, but

363
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,720
I, it occurred to me the other night when we had dinner,

364
00:24:05,890 --> 00:24:09,730
And I brought some Grand Cru Burgundy and some classified growth Bordeaux to

365
00:24:09,730 --> 00:24:11,890
a dinner that my guests didn't know what they were.

366
00:24:13,570 --> 00:24:17,410
Wine novices, as it were. And they both, you know,

367
00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:21,170
the whole table just said, wow, this is really good. Uh-huh. And

368
00:24:22,450 --> 00:24:26,210
don't you think that that recognition is gonna be across all generations

369
00:24:26,610 --> 00:24:29,410
and all peoples that once they get that

370
00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:33,670
complex wine that feels like Atlas Peak, for instance?

371
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:39,270
Yeah, I do, Paul. I think that having wine like that

372
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:42,310
is an epiphany and turns people on to wine.

373
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:45,670
And I think the younger generation will come around.

374
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:51,030
And I think there's controversy about the health effects. There's some

375
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:54,790
positive effects and some benefits. And

376
00:24:55,270 --> 00:24:58,630
even a longitudinal study from Britain seemed to show that

377
00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:03,010
mild wine drinkers and even moderate wine drinkers had kind of

378
00:25:03,170 --> 00:25:06,850
more benefits than risks. So I do think a lot of this

379
00:25:07,250 --> 00:25:10,290
is a cycle and it will turn back positive.

380
00:25:11,490 --> 00:25:14,770
Well, you're an MD. What was your specialty? Internal medicine.

381
00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:19,410
Well, then we should be discussing the Mediterranean lifestyle

382
00:25:20,290 --> 00:25:23,970
and the tannic, the quercetin and

383
00:25:24,130 --> 00:25:27,960
the other things, the resveratrol that What is your medical opinion

384
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,320
of, of the, let's say, the Mediterranean

385
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,000
lifestyle? Yeah, I think the Mediterranean lifestyle is a real

386
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,600
benefit. I think it's beneficial to reduce the heart

387
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,680
disease. It contributes to longevity. I

388
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,600
think wine, when not drunk to excess, has a lot

389
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,520
of positive health benefits because of some of the

390
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,060
chemicals you mentioned. Also because of stress reduction

391
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:57,820
and socialization. I think there are a lot of positives to

392
00:25:58,380 --> 00:26:01,340
a good bottle of wine. I guess

393
00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:06,140
what I read once, it was talking about, and since I have

394
00:26:06,220 --> 00:26:09,820
you on this call, we're gonna finish with, I've got this book I'm gonna bring

395
00:26:09,980 --> 00:26:13,580
off camera. It's written by an MD in

396
00:26:13,740 --> 00:26:17,580
France in the '70s about the curative properties of a glass of

397
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:20,180
wine. So we'll have some fun with that at the end of this. But

398
00:26:21,940 --> 00:26:25,780
would you have ever told a patient you should have

399
00:26:25,860 --> 00:26:29,460
a glass of wine or 2 a night? I have on occasion,

400
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:33,540
you know, patients that were really stressed out and tough

401
00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:37,620
jobs. And sometimes I've told them, you know, maybe a glass

402
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:40,980
of wine at dinner will help relax you. Maybe you want to meditate afterwards.

403
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:46,120
I think wine is really helpful to to reducing stress levels.

404
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,640
And then you didn't take them into the side room where you had your wholesaler

405
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,920
and all the bottles were priced, and just in case you want to take a,

406
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,240
a bottle out the door while you're at it. Yeah. What your, your

407
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,920
winemaking philosophy today with the Krupp Brothers, uh, because when you owned

408
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,840
Stagecoach, you didn't, um, you didn't manufacture wine at that point,

409
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,600
correct? Not at the beginning. Um,

410
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,780
Started Stagecoach in '95. My brother and I

411
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:18,460
decided to make a little bit of wine in '99, and that's

412
00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:21,260
grown. And when we sold Stagecoach in

413
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:25,260
'17, we bought our own small winery, which helped us

414
00:27:25,420 --> 00:27:28,940
really fine-tune our winemaking equipment and process.

415
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:32,540
And, and are making more wine now than we used to.

416
00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:36,860
I noticed you have quite a variety of, a variety of varietals.

417
00:27:37,180 --> 00:27:40,850
How about that? that, I don't know, I,

418
00:27:40,850 --> 00:27:44,050
I'm not sure I would've equated them with, with Atlas Peak, but

419
00:27:45,170 --> 00:27:48,770
how is that working with this? You have Sauvignon Blanc, you have a rosé,

420
00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:53,090
you've got some Bordeaux blends, you've got your Cabernet. So it's really interesting

421
00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:56,930
to see of so many varietals being made there and that how

422
00:27:57,170 --> 00:28:00,850
well they might do in Atlas Peak. Yeah, I guess,

423
00:28:01,170 --> 00:28:04,610
Paul, I had the luxury of having this huge property.

424
00:28:05,410 --> 00:28:09,110
It stretched from Pritchard Hill to Atlas Peak and a bunch in

425
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:11,910
between. So there are different

426
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:16,470
microclimates, different aspects, some south-facing, some

427
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:20,310
north-facing, some at the bottom of hills that were

428
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:24,310
cooler where Sauvignon Blanc thrived. So I guess

429
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:27,830
I was spoiled by being able to choose from all these

430
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:32,560
varietals and some of the ones like

431
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,400
Syrah. Michel Chapoutier encouraged

432
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,400
me to plant it, and I never would've planted Syrah if he

433
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,840
didn't encourage me and then later give my son an internship.

434
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,320
I mean, of course he's gonna suggest Syrah. I mean, come on. Yeah. Yeah.

435
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,640
He brought 12 of his wines to my house and we tasted

436
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,920
a bunch of mine and some of my

437
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,250
customers. And when he got done, he said, you know, the Cabernets and

438
00:29:00,410 --> 00:29:04,250
Merlots you're producing in your custom are really great,

439
00:29:04,410 --> 00:29:06,410
but if you just save some

440
00:29:08,010 --> 00:29:11,530
rocky ground for Syrah, he says, it would be even better. Wow. And

441
00:29:12,090 --> 00:29:15,530
I felt like kicking him out, but, you know, he was a world expert and

442
00:29:15,530 --> 00:29:19,210
I was just beginning. And I was glad I listened to him because I think

443
00:29:19,450 --> 00:29:23,250
the Syrah does particularly well at Stagecoach. But You

444
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:26,930
know, Paul, to your point, not in all of Stagecoach. There are areas where

445
00:29:27,490 --> 00:29:31,250
it could be mediocre, but on south-facing rocky

446
00:29:31,570 --> 00:29:35,410
slopes, it's just wonderful. Hmm. I can't get my wife to

447
00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:38,450
drink Syrah, and I've thrown all kinds at her

448
00:29:39,330 --> 00:29:43,010
and barely sneak them by. And she usually looks at me

449
00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:47,090
and goes, this is Syrah, isn't it? I'm like, yeah. She can tell, huh?

450
00:29:47,570 --> 00:29:50,850
You got me. Well, her palate— I think her palate's better than mine, even though

451
00:29:50,850 --> 00:29:54,210
she was the accountant at the Wine of the Month Club and I was the

452
00:29:54,290 --> 00:29:57,550
buyer. Tell me about Forging Eden, this, uh,

453
00:29:58,510 --> 00:30:01,230
the reason why you wanted to tell the story.

454
00:30:02,990 --> 00:30:05,870
You know, I, I just feel like it's a story of, um,

455
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:09,310
perseverance, hard work, luck, and, um,

456
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:14,270
family support. I couldn't have done it without my brother. I wanted to

457
00:30:14,590 --> 00:30:18,430
dedicate it to him and, and include a lot of episodes

458
00:30:18,510 --> 00:30:22,220
where he was key in making this work. But I

459
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:25,500
also wanted to kind of popularize the wines from

460
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:29,260
Atlas Peak and Stagecoach as part of Pritchard Hill.

461
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:34,220
They're already popular, but just kind of

462
00:30:36,620 --> 00:30:40,300
put my mark down on what I created and how I did it.

463
00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:44,060
And hopefully it'd be an inspiration to other people. When people come to the

464
00:30:44,220 --> 00:30:48,070
winery and they ask me questions and I tell them about different

465
00:30:48,390 --> 00:30:52,150
aspects that are in the book way before the book even. All of

466
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:56,070
a sudden they say, well, we'd like to do this. Can you give us some

467
00:30:56,150 --> 00:30:59,510
tips on how we can plant a vineyard and start a small winery?

468
00:31:00,310 --> 00:31:02,550
So I think it is inspirational to other people.

469
00:31:04,550 --> 00:31:07,350
It clearly is. But that inspiration doesn't just come from,

470
00:31:08,550 --> 00:31:12,310
you know, tasting wine. It comes— you're right, it

471
00:31:12,390 --> 00:31:16,010
comes from hearing the story. But that story has to

472
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:19,290
come from the heart. I mean, it has to come from the perseverance, the passion,

473
00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:22,730
the pursuit. It's impossible, I think, in this industry not

474
00:31:24,970 --> 00:31:28,730
to have those qualities built in before you try to

475
00:31:28,810 --> 00:31:32,570
do this because the headwinds are great and the margins are

476
00:31:32,650 --> 00:31:36,410
lousy. And, you know, the— You're right.

477
00:31:36,570 --> 00:31:40,330
It's just not there. But this is what's interesting to me when I

478
00:31:40,410 --> 00:31:43,750
got this notice from your PR agency, which was—

479
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:48,150
I've tasted 100,000 wines in my career. I tasted every Tuesday for 35

480
00:31:48,550 --> 00:31:52,390
years. It was purely to make sure that I delivered to my customers

481
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:56,550
the best I could find. Wow. I heard 100,000 stories along the way.

482
00:31:56,630 --> 00:32:00,470
I had never heard your story before. And it seems like there must

483
00:32:00,550 --> 00:32:04,390
be more of these, but here you are all these years in this genera— in

484
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:08,070
producing wines and producing a vineyard that's now iconic.

485
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,920
And I had not heard your name. And that's why you had to come on

486
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,680
the show because are there— well, I'm not sure how to phrase this

487
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,280
question. Is it you were just working,

488
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,600
doing your job and PR was not part of the thing? You just,

489
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,200
you already had internal PR because winemakers were seeking your

490
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,280
grapes. It was a low profile kind of person you are. What,

491
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,930
why hadn't I heard of you before? Yeah, I'm not sure why. I think

492
00:32:36,090 --> 00:32:38,810
one reason, Paul, is people who have mainly vineyards

493
00:32:39,690 --> 00:32:43,290
aren't famous, you know? And I kind of felt

494
00:32:43,530 --> 00:32:46,890
like, well, I'm producing all these great grapes that

495
00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:51,050
wonderful winemakers love, and they're the heart of some of their best

496
00:32:51,370 --> 00:32:55,210
wines in Napa. But yet it's hard

497
00:32:55,450 --> 00:32:59,210
for the vineyard to get a lot of credit. Mm-hmm. So that's one of the

498
00:32:59,290 --> 00:33:02,990
reasons I bought the small winery. I You know, just

499
00:33:03,150 --> 00:33:06,590
to have more vineyard designates. It's one of the reasons we made our own

500
00:33:07,710 --> 00:33:11,390
wine brand. So to give credit to the vineyard. And I think

501
00:33:11,550 --> 00:33:15,390
that's, that's the other motivation for the book, you know, not a,

502
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:19,150
I mean, like you say, why hadn't you heard of it? You really like Atlas

503
00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:22,750
Peak wines. I bet you like Pritchard Hill wines too. Yeah. But why

504
00:33:22,910 --> 00:33:26,350
hadn't you heard of this huge vineyard that covers both of those

505
00:33:26,670 --> 00:33:30,520
terroirs? So I think that was another motivation for

506
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,440
me doing this book. It's interesting to me,

507
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,200
and I've had, like, Mike Salacci has been on the

508
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,120
show from Opus, and we discussed this idea that

509
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,960
maybe one day Highway 29 becomes the break

510
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,440
cutting the east and west side of the valley in half. And so you double

511
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,960
the Appalachians because there's East Rutherford and West Rutherford or whatever.

512
00:33:54,540 --> 00:33:56,860
That notwithstanding, the point I'm making is,

513
00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:03,100
does it gonna take that many more years for Napa to

514
00:34:03,740 --> 00:34:07,180
be recognized by appellation? I, I, we understand

515
00:34:07,340 --> 00:34:11,180
it, but certainly the general wine drinking public that

516
00:34:11,580 --> 00:34:15,420
understands Bordeaux and Saint-Émilion and, and Pauillac versus Saint-Julien, et

517
00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:19,020
cetera, or Burgundy, even in a more granular

518
00:34:19,580 --> 00:34:22,600
fashion. that Napa gets that same sort of

519
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,840
recognition that, that appellation drives these

520
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,680
characters. Yeah, I think, Paul, you make an excellent point.

521
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,320
I do run into people who prefer Oakville

522
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,400
wines or Howell Mountain wines or Atlas Peak wines or Stag Lake wines.

523
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,320
So there are some wine connoisseurs that do understand the

524
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,080
difference between those terroirs. Carneros is an extreme

525
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,120
example. But you're right, it hasn't really

526
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,280
hit the popular press like the regions in Bordeaux and

527
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,960
Burgundy have, or in Italy. I'm not sure why that

528
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,680
is. Napa's a lot younger than those

529
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,920
places. You know, when was

530
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,760
the Grand Cru Classé? Was that 1855 or

531
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,440
something? Correct. Yeah. For the Left Bank. Yeah.

532
00:35:13,850 --> 00:35:17,610
Well, I don't know. I think time certainly has something to do with it.

533
00:35:17,850 --> 00:35:21,610
My dad used to sort of, he wouldn't complain, but he

534
00:35:21,690 --> 00:35:25,210
would sort of point out, he was a Francophile. He spoke French.

535
00:35:26,490 --> 00:35:30,170
Wow. His early days as a Cairo— he's from Cairo as an immigrant.

536
00:35:30,810 --> 00:35:34,090
But he always thought that the French were very good at romancing what they are.

537
00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:38,010
But I think it's more than that. And I always envy, and

538
00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:41,480
I've said this before on the show, that I've always envied the Old World of

539
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,480
Europe where they protect their butter, they protect their cheese, they protect their

540
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,560
wine in appellations and controlling that. But the

541
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:53,320
flip side, the French and the Italians love America because

542
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,920
it's a free world and you can do whatever you want. You don't have to

543
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:01,000
grow Cabernet and Merlot and Cabernet Franc in one district. You can grow whatever

544
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,840
you want. So it's kind of like the grass is greener for

545
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:08,370
everybody. But I, I think time has a lot to do with that,

546
00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:13,410
that specialization. And do you think maybe that

547
00:36:14,450 --> 00:36:17,650
this idea that seems to be breaking up a little bit now,

548
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:22,450
but that Napa Valley opulent extracted

549
00:36:23,170 --> 00:36:26,770
fruit-forward wine that made, that became so popular in many

550
00:36:27,090 --> 00:36:30,770
brands, won't throw anybody under the bus. I think that's sort of breaking

551
00:36:31,090 --> 00:36:33,170
down a little bit. Do you see that or do you still feel that? I

552
00:36:33,250 --> 00:36:36,790
do see that. You know, I, I went, I don't own Stagecoach

553
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:40,310
anymore, but I went to a Stagecoach tasting where a lot of the

554
00:36:41,110 --> 00:36:44,550
wineries brought their wines and they did talk about lower

555
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:48,870
alcohol wines and different varietals and the popularity of red blends.

556
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:52,310
And I think for a while, Paul, people were chasing

557
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:55,670
Cabernet all over Napa and there might be an area where

558
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:59,910
Cabernet doesn't belong. Sauvignon Blanc would be okay.

559
00:37:00,310 --> 00:37:02,970
But people planted Cabernet anyway. So

560
00:37:05,610 --> 00:37:08,810
I think that that's— Napa needs

561
00:37:09,770 --> 00:37:13,290
to break up the terroirs and plant what's best for each

562
00:37:13,530 --> 00:37:16,650
terroir. And again, that was my luxury at Stagecoach.

563
00:37:18,330 --> 00:37:22,170
The property there is now 1,300 acres. Wow. And you could just pick

564
00:37:22,330 --> 00:37:26,010
and choose. It's not all planted, but you'd pick and choose whether

565
00:37:26,170 --> 00:37:29,690
you wanted to plant grapes on Pritchard Hill or Atlas Peak or

566
00:37:30,690 --> 00:37:34,530
down, down in a hole that was cold and, and really fine-tune it. I

567
00:37:34,610 --> 00:37:38,290
think Napa needs to do more of that, and maybe this down

568
00:37:38,610 --> 00:37:42,050
cycle will promote that. I, I am seeing some changes in the

569
00:37:42,130 --> 00:37:45,170
winemakers and winery owners, so hopefully that's coming.

570
00:37:46,210 --> 00:37:49,970
You know, the, the— there's all over the press when you sold, uh, the winery

571
00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:53,890
in 2000, the vineyard in 2017, that we're not— we just, we agreed not to

572
00:37:53,970 --> 00:37:57,820
talk numbers. You sold to one of the great largest landowners

573
00:37:58,460 --> 00:38:01,180
in the world of— I mean, I'm talking about the world of grape owners.

574
00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:06,220
And I had

575
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:09,900
a friend's family that sold a very large appliance firm to

576
00:38:11,020 --> 00:38:14,780
a very large American corporate America. Uh-huh. And they got

577
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:18,540
a very large number. That number right now would be probably an 8th

578
00:38:20,220 --> 00:38:23,920
at today's value. In other words, if they had waited until today, they would have

579
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,600
gotten an 8th of the value that they got 25 years ago.

580
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,880
And you sold about 9 years ago. Do you think in

581
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,240
today's environment that you would have resulted in the same sort of

582
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,640
cash value of the property? No, not at all. I was very lucky, Paul.

583
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,800
I really never wanted to sell Stagecoach. I thought I would die

584
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,960
farming that. So you felt like you were

585
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,850
dying when you were farming it? Yeah. With

586
00:38:52,930 --> 00:38:56,690
the red dirt when I was first creating it. Yeah. But I

587
00:38:56,850 --> 00:39:00,530
was lucky. You know, Dave Finney came to me. He had

588
00:39:00,690 --> 00:39:04,370
sold Orin Swift to Gallo. It worked out really well for him. He was

589
00:39:04,530 --> 00:39:08,210
still kind of guiding Orin Swift and, and helping with the

590
00:39:08,290 --> 00:39:12,130
marketing. He had sold The Prisoner before that. And he, he

591
00:39:12,450 --> 00:39:16,130
came and invited me to lunch, and he was my biggest customer by tons of

592
00:39:16,290 --> 00:39:19,820
grapes back then. By cash value, it was Caymus because

593
00:39:20,140 --> 00:39:23,980
Caymus was just buying Cabernet. But anyway, Dave invited me to lunch

594
00:39:24,220 --> 00:39:26,540
with an investment banker and he

595
00:39:28,380 --> 00:39:32,140
said how good, how well the sale to Gallo had worked out for

596
00:39:32,220 --> 00:39:35,820
him and it just changed his life. And

597
00:39:36,140 --> 00:39:39,660
so I considered it. I knew my brother, I couldn't have done this without

598
00:39:40,060 --> 00:39:43,580
Bart, and even my other brother Fred helped a lot. I knew he would like,

599
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,280
to sell it. Never twisted my arm, but I knew he thought it was time

600
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,280
to kind of put estate plans in order and stuff. So that was one

601
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,200
of my motivations. The reason I brought that up too is because Gallo

602
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,000
is, you know, prolific in the industry and they certainly have,

603
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,840
I've sold a lot of their wines. They're good wines. And my dad sold a

604
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,160
lot of their cheap wines in the wine shop. So,

605
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,200
but they just bought a brand from a young lady who had

606
00:40:09,930 --> 00:40:12,970
not been in the wine business for more than a few years. And, and she

607
00:40:13,050 --> 00:40:16,890
was sort of a Gen Z proponent, or she was

608
00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:20,490
a Gen Zer herself. And she created a brand that, that

609
00:40:21,690 --> 00:40:25,130
I guess is attractive to Gen Zers. It was really interesting to me.

610
00:40:25,930 --> 00:40:29,130
One of the features of the wine, A, it was a crown cap, which I

611
00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:33,050
thought was weird, but 2, you could peel off the label. Right.

612
00:40:33,290 --> 00:40:36,010
And write on the back of it, you know, who you were with, you know,

613
00:40:36,090 --> 00:40:39,740
what the ex— And it, with the experience, I'm like, I tell

614
00:40:39,980 --> 00:40:43,580
myself, and I'm not criticizing her because she was bought by Gallo and what a

615
00:40:43,660 --> 00:40:47,420
great business transaction. But my dad used to do that.

616
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:50,700
We used to have this big piece of, we sold them in the store, this

617
00:40:50,780 --> 00:40:54,620
big giant piece of tape, big square tape thing. Uh-huh. And then you'd put it

618
00:40:54,620 --> 00:40:57,740
on a label and you'd peel it off. And then you'd put it in a

619
00:40:57,740 --> 00:41:01,100
little cellar book and you'd write down whatever you wanted to write down, whether you

620
00:41:01,180 --> 00:41:03,820
drank it with friends or whether you, you know, what your, what your notes were

621
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:07,630
about the wine. And it's a repackaging of something that's already been around

622
00:41:08,350 --> 00:41:12,190
forever, you know? Yeah. But she was smart in doing it that

623
00:41:12,350 --> 00:41:14,430
way. But, but that just triggered a thought.

624
00:41:16,350 --> 00:41:20,190
I keep reading about this generation, millennials too, and maybe

625
00:41:20,350 --> 00:41:23,950
the ones after, Gen Zers, being more

626
00:41:24,350 --> 00:41:27,230
experiential. And this

627
00:41:28,270 --> 00:41:31,230
patch here, which is Les Amis du Vent, this is from the '70s,

628
00:41:32,110 --> 00:41:35,220
was exactly that. It was for the public

629
00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:39,380
to be part of a group that wanted to experience wine.

630
00:41:40,660 --> 00:41:44,180
And I guess history just repeats itself, right? It does.

631
00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:47,540
It does. You and your dad had the tape idea and now

632
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:52,260
Gallo thought it was worthwhile. History does repeat itself. Because what are you gonna

633
00:41:52,340 --> 00:41:55,140
do in the wine trade that's new? You know, it's like—

634
00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:59,060
Right. Though the other day I read

635
00:41:59,220 --> 00:42:02,070
about, and I've had many people on this couch behind me that have

636
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:06,710
the latest packaging idea, you know, the cans. One woman suggested Lafite

637
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:10,390
Rothschild would be in a can. And then I just read the other day that

638
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:14,310
somebody's introducing wine in a pouch, like a kid's baby

639
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:18,390
pouch. And I'm like, how is that an experience? Yeah.

640
00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:22,070
To squeeze up Cabernet? I don't get it.

641
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:26,310
Not for me or you, huh? No. Because you're a vineyard owner and because you're

642
00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:28,920
an MD, This is— I usually don't do it for domestic

643
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,040
interviews because all the varietals that are suggestive of this

644
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:39,080
ailing, the body ailing, are French. So I'll

645
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,680
give you— what I do is I give you a human

646
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,640
ailment, which you'll obviously be

647
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,920
familiar with. And then Dr. Murray, who wrote this book called Wine Is

648
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,740
the Best Medicine, this is from the '70s. Oh. And

649
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:58,660
his curative wine for that ailment. And by

650
00:42:58,660 --> 00:43:02,020
the way, regardless of who I talk to, it's still, I'll give you

651
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:06,180
3 choices and the going rate is 33% right.

652
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:09,780
So. Ah! But, and then, but more importantly

653
00:43:10,420 --> 00:43:14,260
is really like the Master of Wine test. Why did we choose that

654
00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:18,100
answer? Right? Like, explain it. And he gives an answer. So let's go

655
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:21,470
with, Let's go with bronchitis.

656
00:43:22,270 --> 00:43:25,550
Since you're an internal medicine guy, would you have

657
00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:29,950
a Graves, a Burgundy, or

658
00:43:30,350 --> 00:43:34,190
a young Beaujolais to cure or to help with the

659
00:43:34,270 --> 00:43:38,110
symptomatic relief of bronchitis? And why?

660
00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:43,230
Maybe a young Beaujolais. Okay. And why would that be?

661
00:43:44,270 --> 00:43:47,950
Just a, a lighter approach, something that's not gonna make the bronchitis

662
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:52,140
Worse. And something you probably won't drink

663
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:56,460
that much of. And what would the

664
00:43:56,540 --> 00:44:00,060
dose be? Ah, the dose would be 6

665
00:44:00,220 --> 00:44:02,220
ounces. 6 ounces.

666
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:07,980
My father would've done it. My father was a pharmacist by trade, by the way.

667
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:11,900
And he probably would've done it in drams, right? So

668
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:16,920
that's pretty good. Well, I apologize,

669
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,240
but it's Burgundy. It's Burgundy. Though, you know,

670
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,080
that's pretty close, right? Beaujolais, just south. Pretty close. Yeah.

671
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,160
Just south of Burgundy there. And he suggests that it's

672
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,280
because of the phosphorus.

673
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,840
But he wants you to warm it up, which is kind of interesting. That is

674
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,700
interesting. Does he say to what temperature, Paul? He says

675
00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:43,100
140 degrees. Wow.

676
00:44:45,020 --> 00:44:48,780
Warm, warm Burgundy, huh? He says these maladies, especially the

677
00:44:48,860 --> 00:44:51,740
last 2, can be accompanied by lassitude,

678
00:44:52,540 --> 00:44:56,380
cardiac weakness, and kidney malfunction, particularly when the now

679
00:44:56,620 --> 00:45:00,380
so popular antibiotics are used. So it sounds like he's trying to supplement

680
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,820
the antibiotic. All right, well, and his suggestion is

681
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:10,870
It doesn't say here. Oh,

682
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:15,110
3 coffee cupfuls per day. Huh.

683
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:20,870
There you have it. Okay, I'll remember that next time on the

684
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:24,630
webcast. Have you ever, have you ever had Burgundy at that temperature,

685
00:45:25,110 --> 00:45:28,950
Paul? Or anyone? Only if, only if the cellar

686
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:33,190
air conditioner broke. No, I don't think

687
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:36,870
I've ever, you know, wine, of course, when you have warm wine, it, you know,

688
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:40,630
it kills all the flavor. Right. I agree. That's so interesting. Anyway,

689
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:43,110
such an honor to have you on the show and a pleasure to hear the

690
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:46,150
story. And I hope when we come up, we can sit and have a glass

691
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:49,270
of wine and share some more. I look forward to that, Paul. Thank you very

692
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:53,190
much for having me on the show. I've loved the interview. Thank you. And

693
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:56,550
look, look forward to the book coming out. When's it, when's it release? October

694
00:45:57,110 --> 00:46:00,800
27th. Oh, so we got a little ways to wait. Okay. Um,

695
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,960
very good. Well, again, thank you for the time and, uh, and have a great

696
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,720
day today and we'll look forward to meeting in person. Sounds, sounds

697
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,520
perfect, Paul. Enjoy your day too. Cheers.

698
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,080
Cheers.