Breaking Barriers: Millennials, Diversity, and the Future of Wine with Isis Daniels

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I don't care what you choose to do. I don't care if it's biodynamic. I

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don't care. Whatever label you pick, the wine needs to be good.

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So we're just going to settle that right now. I don't care. Sit

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back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with

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Paul K. Hey, welcome

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to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today in beautiful Southern

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California, about to have a conversation with ISIS. Daniel, way out of the Washington, D.C.

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area. Introductions in just a moment. Hey, don't forget to

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subscribe and click a thumbs up for me. If you don't have a thumbs up,

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then don't bother doing anything. And have a listen

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to a recent release of Rex Pickett, the famed author of

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Sideways. He's back in the scene and we ran into him in Napa, had a

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great conversation with him. So he's@winetalkspodcast.com but now

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over here, we're here to have a conversation with isis. The

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Millennial Psalm. I love that term, the millennial Psalm.

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You know, are you a millennial for one. Is that I am a millennial. I'm

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actually on the tail end, depending on where you get your,

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you know, statistics from. I'm either the last millennial or the year

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before the last. So woot, woot. Go millennial.

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Well, I raised three and I guess I use that term loosely,

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raised all hardworking girls. And so I understand.

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Well, no, I don't understand the generation, frankly. What I do understand,

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there are, as you're saying, older millennials. And that's kind of scary

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because we've already gone through the generation. Yes. Millennials are

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in their 40s. So I have, my second oldest brother

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is the, is a millennial and he's at the top of the list and

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he's in his 40s. So it's crazy. Well, it's. Tell me,

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tell me then how is it because you are a wine professional, you have a

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level 3 wit set degree W set headed to Paris, which is really

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cool. We'll talk about that. To get your diploma, which is the highest level of

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WSET recognition and certification. But, you know,

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the millennial generation is not a wine drinking generation

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or the at least to the industry. It's difficult to figure

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out where they're at. How does your interest in this become

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so apparent and fortified?

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So I just like most wine professionals, I think I

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always say that wine chose me. I didn't choose it. I had a friend at

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the time who recommended that I drink wine. She thought that

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I looked like a wine person, whatever that means. But

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it worked. I started drinking wine with her and then with family, and,

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ah Sahm reached out to me and said, hey, we need more, you know, African

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American women in this industry. I recommend taking a course in

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our local school in D.C. called Capital Wine School. Shout out to them, woot,

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woot. Um, but honestly, my

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passion for wine came organically. I was

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obsessed with wine knowledge. I had no idea. All of the

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ins and outs of creating wine in that glass that started in that

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bottle, that when really started in the vineyard, it was just. I

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was just amazed. So that was my turning point.

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But to talk about millennials as a whole, I think that

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the industry has failed to speak our language, which is why I've

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had success in my social media journey, because. Because I talk about wine

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my way, and I think millennials are just interested in

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authentic expression, and we want to

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be able to enjoy what we like our way. But

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the best way to do that is to talk about it in a inclusive

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manner, to create environments where you can explore and then

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allow people to just do what they want after that without policing their

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interests. So, being a millennial, we're all about freedom. Let us do what we

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want. You have spoken volumes there.

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You touched on a couple hours worth of stuff, but let's just kind

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of peel it back because it's so interesting. And I tease some

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groups because you said something about being authentic

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and do it our way, which I think is totally right on. And

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I think that, what does it mean to do it our way?

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I have this romantic view of wine, and being a

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retailer you don't have to depart from sometimes because you selling wine

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sometimes is totally different than the romanticism of it. But

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I think everybody, every generation, eventually, like you have,

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lands on that glass of wine and realizes there's something more

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to the alcohol.

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Have you seen that with the millennials, now that you're talking their language?

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Yes. So the issue

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is, okay, I'm trying to backtrack and think about how I want

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to explain. This wine is amazing, right?

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Every person who's interested in wine, they have that first wine. No

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matter how expensive it is, no matter the quality, it doesn't

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matter. Every wine lover has that one wine that they tried,

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and they said, this is something special. There's something to this. Right?

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And the problem when it comes to millennials is that we have a hard time

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getting them to that first step of even trying wines,

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or if they have a wine that they don't like for the first time, and

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they just say, wine isn't for me. Trying to communicate to them, to

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understand that there are so many different expressions and styles of wine, and it's about

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figuring out what best fits your palate. We have a

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hard time of having that conversation to get millennials and

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generations younger, which is Gen X, right.

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To just try it, you know, and I

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don't even know. Did I answer your question? Well, yes, you. And that's

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okay. Just make it sure. Okay, well, we're. We're. We're just having

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fun here. You know, we're trying to keep it real. Right. So, yes, absolutely.

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Let's do that. Well, no, this is. This is the premise

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of my dad's company back in the 70s and 80s, and that was, I

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don't like wine. You know that you heard that all the time. You still do.

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Still very small population. The percentage of the population that drinks wine. But

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is it because we didn't have the right wine, which sounds like you're

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saying, or we just outright had a bad one, which there's plenty of on this

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on the shelf. And so they have the one that tickles their

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fancy. And like you, the academia kind of

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kicks in. You're like, whoa, I wonder what this is all about.

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So what do you think that is? What do you think that

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IT factor is? I have a hard time with the idea

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that drinking a glass of apothecary is going to do anything for anybody

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or 19 crimes. But at some point,

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I'll give you my notion you can have a discussion is

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when you have an honest glass of wine, a properly made glass of wine that

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expresses something other than sugar and

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supermarket shelves, that's when you have that IT factor.

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So I believe that what you're saying is

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right and at the same time, wrong. Okay,

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that's right. I've been known by my wife. That's. I've been told by my wife

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many times. You're so funny. But

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the truth is, we as wine professionals, or even

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wine enthusiasts who have been drinking wine for a very long time, have had

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the opportunity to have amazing wines that we know are

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just, you know, just take us to a whole nother world, right?

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We have to make sure that we respect the barefoots,

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the, you know, all the wines. You just said 19 crimes, all of

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that, because it's a gateway.

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Yesterday, I had the wonderful opportunity of

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interviewing a guest on my Instagram live show tasting Thursday.

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And, you know, she's a excellent mixologist. She's absolutely

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amazing. But the interesting thing was I asked her when she

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fell in love with wine. She said she fell in love with wine 10 years

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ago when she walked into a 711 and she bought

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a. What is that wine called? From Australia.

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You know exactly which one I'm talking about, too. It's Yellowtail. Yellowtail,

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yeah. Okay. They have a 7 11. Oh, yes, they did.

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All right. But when we hear it, or when professionals hear it, wine

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enthusiasts hear it, we're just. We cringe at the thought because we understand

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what quality wine tastes like. But we have to understand

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that people who are wine novice, it doesn't matter what wine

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it is. Whatever wine gets people through the door to be

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interested is a win for us. And I think we, as an industry,

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we shun people. Just like, you know, I

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always compare wine to people, and I do it on

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purpose because we have all these different people.

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All people have different preferences, different lifestyle, different choices.

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And we feel that if we love our lives and we feel that

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it's superior to someone else, we judged them, and we can't do

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that. You can still allow people to like what they like

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and show them based off of whatever they're drinking. You like

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this. Okay, cool. I'm so happy you're drinking wine. Encourage them.

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But you know what you could also do? Have this wine. It fits your budget,

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it fits your palate preference, but it's also better quality.

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Help people grow rather than shun what they like, because

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there's a reason Barefoot Yellowtail and all these other wines

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are still in production. People buy it because they like it.

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I agree with that completely. And I think the white, that's

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what White Zinfandel did in 1974 with Bob Trincaro.

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And, you know, my father used to carry Lancers and Matuse and

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Gallo Rhine wine and Burgundy, and it's always been that way.

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And I think, you know, one of my sort of unanswerable

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questions is, like, what. What if profit wasn't part of this equation? What if

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big business wasn't part of the wine business? Let's say it was, you know, back

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to the days of early Burgundy and Bordeaux, and you just drank the wine of

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your neighborhood because that's what you did. And that's those

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relationships. We'll get to that. That question in a second. But

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it seems to me that wine has a

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connection to the soul. Eventually, yes. And I don't. I don't think the

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entry level wines do that. So they bring to the table the people

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that haven't experienced it, but it tickles their

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fancy. And then all of a sudden, you can't drink it anymore. Isn't that

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fascinating, right? It is fascinating, but I think

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we are talking about culture. And

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for wine novice who are just entering, wine

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isn't a part of their culture. I grew up in a

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family, well, one side of my family that doesn't drink

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alcohol at all. The other side of my family, they're not wine drinkers, but

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they do drink. Right. And my journey in wine

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was unique. I mean, I don't know, I guess I have a dry

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palate just to start. I didn't drink sweet wines in the beginning. That just wasn't

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me. But it was definitely a

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cultivating of a culture for myself. And now my

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family, you know, I am looking into non alcoholic wines for

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my side of my family that doesn't drink. And then the side of my family

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that does, they count on me to bring wine to the table. And so

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I think when we talk about people who

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have, who understand quality of wine, it has become

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a part of them. Yes, they have that one aha moment with a fantastic

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wine. But I also feel that when we look at other

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people who are entering into the space, they are cultivating that new

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culture for them, their family, their friends. And you know, it

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takes time to understand, hey, what you're drinking. I get that you

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like it, but there's some better options out there and not all

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options are breaking the bank. You know, it's interesting,

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I suppose this happens to you now with your family if you explain that

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and other friends that aren't in the wine world yet.

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Look, let's face it, only 25% of the population in general drinks

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wine. So it's always been a small percentage. But

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that the conversation at dinner quite often, if not all the

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time with novices or experienced people or

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enthusiasts comes to wine because people really

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want to know. They really want to kind of understand it and hear it from

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somebody like you who has an experience and understanding you have that same

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experience. Oh my gosh. But it's because I love wine so

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much. I think like they see the joy that wine

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brings to me and they just want a piece of the pie. Even again, going

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back to my family that doesn't drink, I,

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you know, the conversation about non alcoholic wines, I know, is

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a bit tight within our community because of the low

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quality of non alcoholic wines that have been, you know, the standard.

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Right. But whenever I am

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at a family event, they always ask, did you bring something

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for me to try? And to me it gets me so excited because

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wine is supposed to be about community and bringing people together. And

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it doesn't matter what your palate is. If you like sweet wines, if you like

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dry wines, if you like non alcoholic wines, get it out. Isis, right.

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It's important to remember they want to be a part of the

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same joy that I experience. And I think that that's the

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best thing about being a wine professional, being a wine enthusiast,

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is that we discovered a light something that has been on

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this earth since the beginning of time. Right?

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We want people to come in and enjoy it with us, and they want to

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be a part of that as well. I have this. I

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try to be very careful at these dinners. I went to one the other night,

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lots of guys, maybe one wine enthusiast out of the seven or eight people at

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my table. And I try to be very careful not to dominate the conversation and

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let people explain what they like and more

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listen to understand what they're talking about, rather than just respond

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and spout off what I know about the wine industry, which

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doesn't seem to be much even after 35 years. But

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interesting you say non alcoholic because

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we've been going to the fancy food show for years. Used to be in San

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Francisco, in Vegas last year. And there's always an overriding

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theme. Organic foods, like 10 years ago were really hot and then

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olive oil was really hot. There's all these different things. And this year

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was non alcoholic everything. And I don't get it, frankly.

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But I want to ask you a question because even the non alcoholic spirits

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are. They're hard to drink. They're really. I don't understand. If you want

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to drink bourbon, drink bourbon. Don't just color the water brown, you know. But

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there was one guy stuck a bottle of Prosecco in my face

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and he says, you have to try this. I go, how'd you know that I'm

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a wine in the wine business? Because I didn't. I said, well, I'm not very

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fond of these non alcoholic wines. I had them on the show.

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They happened to be in California, not too far from here. But it

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was fabulous, actually. And I tasted with my staff during our regular

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tasting. Are you finding the quality improving in these things? And,

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you know, why is that happening? It is, it is. My

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gosh, the non alcoholic wine options are getting better

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and better, and I'm so grateful for it. Now

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we understand the stats, right? I

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don't remember exactly what the number is, but since COVID

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people have been a little more health conscious. You know, that's the whole movement of

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clean wines and all the other labels. And when it comes to

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clean Wine and all that, I'm kind of touch and go. But when it

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comes to non alcoholic wines, I'm all about

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inclusion. I'm actually now certified in DEI

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and understanding the cultural importance of inclusion.

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Remember I painted that picture of my family, my side of

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the family that couldn't drink or they choose not to.

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They felt like they were missing out. They felt like they were missing out on

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the experience of my success and my growth and

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being able to provide that. They are now able to come to functions and

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they are excited to taste and drink wine with us, even if

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it doesn't have alcohol. And I always paint the picture as well.

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You know, you are working and everyone's leaving for a happy hour after work.

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There are people who choose not to go out to do these

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functions because they feel like it's not an environment for them. But if we

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normalized mocktails, if we normalize non

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alcoholic options when we get together as a community,

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you're now inviting people who you typically feel left out to come into play.

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And that helps the wine industry, it helps other industries.

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We're all about cultivating that money. Come on. But when

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we decide to. Right. But when we decide to leave people

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out, you know, it's harmful.

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And I do think that with the great

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growth of non alcoholic beverages and it's

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opening up doors even the last week, and I'm going to just say this

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last point on this. I worked an event with

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a friend, one of my best friends, and she is pregnant.

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And you know, we work in wine. So I'm working

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and I'm drinking wines and I'm drinking cocktails and she's just watching me,

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wishing that she could be a part of the fun owie, you know,

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but if it were normalized that they have great wine

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options that just don't have alcohol because she can't drink it,

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wouldn't that change the experience of everybody

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involved? I just, I want people to shift their thinking and

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understand that not everything is about you and your preference

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and what you want. Some options are made for other people who don't have

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the same experience. That's a very healthy outlook on

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it. And there's, I think that's why so much attention is being paid to it

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now as well as you were you brought up briefly this,

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the clean wine movement or the organic wines,

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biodynamic orange wines, whatever segment you want to

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address. It always fascinates me because

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humans do this. They, they, they do did something. Let's

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case, wine making was always natural, quote unquote, because you

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And I know there's no FDA definition of that, but let's just say heavy on

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the quote, unquote, right? Yeah. But then

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we invented all this stuff to put in wine and defoaming

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agents and all the mega purple and all that, and then now we

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boast about not using them anymore. And I just find that fascinating. The.

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The monks of the 12th century in Burgundy and Bordeaux and. And up until

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probably, like, the 40s, these things didn't exist. Herbicides, pesticides, and

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in whatever the other one. There's three side. There's three

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sides somewhere about

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it. Yeah. Um, is. Is it of interest to the

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millennial groups or the. Your. Let's just say, your followers in general

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to have access to organic wine? And do you believe

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that gives the winemaker an excuse to make something that tastes like horse crap?

302
00:18:53,950 --> 00:18:57,230
No. So I'm going to answer the fir. The last question first.

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I don't care what you choose to do. I don't care if it's biodynamic. I

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don't care. Whatever label you pick, the wine needs to be good.

305
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So we're just going to settle that right now. I don't care. But

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I think that millennials are interested in

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paying better attention of what we put into our bodies, and

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I support that. I think that's why they care if it's

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organic, they care if it's natural, they care if it's biodynamic because they want

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the least amount of hands touching, and

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then, you know, than is necessary. But I do

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think that I would caution any person who cares about

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all of the labels. Right. To understand that some of these

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choices are being made to stabilize the wine and to make sure that the quality

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of the wine is what it should be. And

316
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we should educate ourselves to not just ride the train

317
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of what other people are saying online, do research.

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Organic doesn't mean natural. Natural doesn't mean clean. Clean

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doesn't mean biodynamic. You know what I mean? Like, do

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your due diligence to understand what it is that you are putting into

321
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your body. That's why I am a supporter of the wine

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labels. I know everyone in the wine industry is going

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to be so annoyed by this, but again,

324
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it says something. We're in America, like, everything is

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processed. Everyone is getting all of these illnesses, and it's just a lot.

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And the, you know, the main issue is what we put in our. Into our

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bodies so that. So us having

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clients or, you know, consumers who are paying

329
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better attention to what they consume is not a problem.

330
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It just Means more work for you. And I get it. It's annoying,

331
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but I think we should care what we put into our bodies.

332
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I don't know. Look, the concept has always been

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you are. Everybody has always said you are what you eat, but it's more like

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you are what you eat, eats. Right. We have to understand what's going on below

335
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the SO soil. We. America has known that we've destroyed

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many crops with insecticides and herbicides, and it takes years

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for them to come back in their natural habitat. But,

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you know, I gotta play devil's advocate. I had a winemaker in here, and

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he. I said, what do you think of this idea of putting ingredients on wine?

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And of course, he was against it. And his comment was, well, do you go

341
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back in the kitchen at a restaurant and ask the chef what's in the food

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now? We probably should in some cases. But I mean.

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And I use. This is my new coin phrase. I use it earlier. An honest

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glass of wine would preclude all those things anyway, because I went

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to a tasting of the day, which I thought was going to be this big.

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Boorish guys hanging out for lunch in Beverly Hills

347
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actually was very fun and very interesting. And it was a vertical of grunge, which

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was I, even after 35 years, had very few tastings of.

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And it was clear. And that was one of the questions that the host asked,

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like, do you think this is a vertical? And it was obvious to me that

351
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this was a vertical of. Of a wine with

352
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particular vineyard characteristics. And all you were tasting and the difference was

353
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the terroir. What. What was happening that year at that time at that place.

354
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And that's my definition of an honest glass of wine. Yes. Let's

355
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face it. Apothec Red 19 crimes. Those are all formula wines.

356
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They're made to taste the same every year. Yeah, absolutely. Let me ask

357
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that question then. I read an article recently, and the guy was.

358
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This author was saying that he was

359
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upset with the wine industry or thinks that we're not doing it right because we're

360
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not asking the consumer, what do you want to drink? And formulating wines around what

361
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that response is. Does that completely fly in the face

362
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of what wine is to be one. Okay, all right,

363
00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:43,220
let me. Here we go. Hey, you got to take it easy. You know, I'm

364
00:22:43,220 --> 00:22:46,930
sound like, all right, do I tread lightly or do I call the water?

365
00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:50,930
So I love wine.

366
00:22:52,050 --> 00:22:55,650
Okay, so let's just start there. We've established that. Okay, good. Right.

367
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I understand the value of terroir.

368
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I understand the value of understanding the essence of

369
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wine. Whenever you taste a wine, you should understand where it was

370
00:23:07,170 --> 00:23:11,010
grown. You should be able to taste the ocean. You know, I just.

371
00:23:11,010 --> 00:23:14,670
I want to be able to express experience where that wine is and

372
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teleport there with my glass. So as a wine

373
00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:20,550
lover, I side with that.

374
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:25,590
I understand the notion of, well, we need to be able to ask

375
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the consumer what they want, but not. We already established

376
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:33,110
every person has a different palate. So if you have a

377
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desire of a certain flavor

378
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:40,480
profile, okay, let's figure out the region,

379
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,200
let's figure out the year. Let's figure there are resources out there. And

380
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,280
guess what? It's also not even rocket science. The other day, I was

381
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,000
making muscles for my dad. I wanted to put some wine in

382
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,360
there. I looked on the back of a wine I never had, it said Maraton,

383
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,000
and it was a Chardonnay. So I knew that it would have everything that I

384
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,320
needed in there and also have a little bit of salinity maybe, possibly, I don't

385
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,840
know, like, you know, it's just. There's a gambler. But when you are an

386
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,280
educated buyer, you can make those gambles and

387
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,560
possibly, most likely choose a wine that best fits whatever you are trying to

388
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do. Right? So, no, I do not feel that

389
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,240
you can. You should craft wines to be a specific thing.

390
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,720
I don't think it's necessary. I think that we can use our

391
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,160
educated guests in order to find wines that best fit

392
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,160
our palate or whatever we are currently eating or anything else.

393
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:36,420
It's not necessary to force anything. I just don't think it's

394
00:24:36,420 --> 00:24:40,260
necessary. Well, it's a profitability issue. It's obviously

395
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:43,780
a very vicious cycle, but this is a profitability thing. I mean, obviously, if we

396
00:24:43,780 --> 00:24:47,540
can sell wine that people know. I've told this story before, and I'll make

397
00:24:47,540 --> 00:24:50,540
it shorter this time, but I met a woman at the. We were doing a

398
00:24:50,540 --> 00:24:54,340
TikTok video, oddly, at the aisle of Ralph's Market here locally

399
00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:57,940
in Southern California. And a woman came by to buy wine. And I knew her.

400
00:24:57,940 --> 00:25:01,780
She knew that she remembered me, couldn't remember my name, but she says. I go,

401
00:25:01,780 --> 00:25:05,540
what are you looking for? She says, something different than I usually drink. Oh, okay.

402
00:25:05,540 --> 00:25:09,100
That's like music to our ears, right? I want to break out of something,

403
00:25:09,580 --> 00:25:12,540
but it's such an emotional product. And she knew I was in the wine industry

404
00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:16,140
for forever. I think I coached her kids in Little League or something. And.

405
00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:19,500
And I said, well, here's a couple of things that are like, J. Lord, what

406
00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:23,300
she Drank that are different. And she. In the sense of that they'll

407
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:26,940
take you someplace else. And she's. She wouldn't buy them. And I thought, wow. And

408
00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:30,460
I told my intern, I said, what an emotional decision this is for people to

409
00:25:30,460 --> 00:25:34,300
buy a wine. And she stated she wanted to break out of her

410
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:37,860
mold, which is great for us, but at the same time was

411
00:25:37,860 --> 00:25:41,380
unable to take the recommendation because she looks at the label herself,

412
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:44,020
wants to make that decision on her own.

413
00:25:45,380 --> 00:25:48,980
Have you seen the show Drops of God? No. On

414
00:25:48,980 --> 00:25:52,740
Apple tv? Oh, you must have saved eight episodes. My wife and

415
00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:56,210
I binged on it like two days. Watched all. Okay,

416
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:59,970
okay. So I need to look into it. I got it. You'll love it because

417
00:25:59,970 --> 00:26:03,730
it's centers on wine, but it's. It's about

418
00:26:03,730 --> 00:26:07,490
the storytelling of wine. And the reason I brought it up is do you

419
00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:11,210
think that we sort of dig our own grave in

420
00:26:11,210 --> 00:26:14,850
promoting the aristocracy of wine, which is most people's

421
00:26:14,850 --> 00:26:18,570
apprehension? Because we do swirl and sniff and we do

422
00:26:18,570 --> 00:26:21,650
talk about the cedar we smell and we do talk about the terroir. And what

423
00:26:21,650 --> 00:26:25,090
does that mean? And all of a sudden people are going, I don't smell that.

424
00:26:25,610 --> 00:26:29,290
I must be stupid. Is it a self propagating prophecy that

425
00:26:29,290 --> 00:26:31,930
we do that? No.

426
00:26:32,970 --> 00:26:36,570
I love the tradition of wine. And I think

427
00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:40,170
that I also feel when we talk to the

428
00:26:40,170 --> 00:26:43,530
OGs within the wine community who are afraid of change and

429
00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:47,450
afraid of trying new things, I think they hear

430
00:26:47,530 --> 00:26:50,810
that we want to sacrifice tradition and the full

431
00:26:50,970 --> 00:26:54,720
understanding experience of wine. I think the

432
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,440
problem, and I always use this analogy because

433
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,120
when I said it that first time, it stuck with me. So when I was

434
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,840
in Italy, I hung out with my friend Julian and his girlfriend is a

435
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,680
professional volleyball player. And we were talking about exactly what this

436
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,280
conversation is. What do we need to know? All of the.

437
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,680
Okay, pause. Do consumers need to know

438
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,140
the ins and outs of wine in order to enjoy it? And this is what

439
00:27:21,140 --> 00:27:24,740
I said to her. All right, you're a volleyball

440
00:27:24,740 --> 00:27:28,380
player. You know the rules. When you come, you are

441
00:27:28,380 --> 00:27:32,180
dressed ready to play, and you come and you are, you know, you're

442
00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:35,820
playing volleyball. You tell me, the people who

443
00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:39,660
come to enjoy your game, do they need to know

444
00:27:39,740 --> 00:27:43,260
all of the, you know, all of the rules.

445
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:46,910
Do they need to dress how you dress? Of course not.

446
00:27:47,150 --> 00:27:50,950
You can be a novice who's never seen volleyball and go and be

447
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:54,710
blown away by the skill. But guess what? The more you

448
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:58,550
watch, the more you learn about the game, the more you understand what's

449
00:27:58,550 --> 00:28:02,350
going on, the better you're able to participate and enjoy the game.

450
00:28:02,670 --> 00:28:06,390
But guess what? You still never have to dress and show

451
00:28:06,390 --> 00:28:10,190
up the same way that she does as a professional. And I think that we

452
00:28:10,190 --> 00:28:13,910
have to do a better job as a community saying, hey, we're not going to

453
00:28:13,910 --> 00:28:17,510
discard our tradition, but we do need to create a safe

454
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:21,010
environment where people can know. You don't have to know everything to try

455
00:28:21,010 --> 00:28:24,850
wine, but when you're ready, I got

456
00:28:24,850 --> 00:28:28,570
you that. You know, like, it's just. It's not that

457
00:28:28,570 --> 00:28:32,170
deep, you know, it's just not that deep. It's okay. Just straight.

458
00:28:32,650 --> 00:28:36,410
That's a very articulate and an impromptu

459
00:28:36,410 --> 00:28:39,730
way to handle that, and I think it was excellent. Her response was had to

460
00:28:39,730 --> 00:28:43,530
go with, now I get it. Yeah, she got it immediately because

461
00:28:44,020 --> 00:28:47,300
that's her life. She's a volleyball player, and she's not expecting

462
00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:51,340
the people who come to cheer on to sit alongside her and

463
00:28:51,340 --> 00:28:55,140
play. Yeah, that's so interesting. The reason

464
00:28:55,140 --> 00:28:58,900
I brought the Drops of God up was because we'd been tasting with friends for

465
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:01,540
a long time. And one time I've told the story before,

466
00:29:03,220 --> 00:29:06,780
we were tasting wine in Napa, and it was the same vintage, two different. Two

467
00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:10,340
different vineyards, wherever we were at. And my friend says, I think it's a bunch

468
00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:14,170
of bs. They actually said, but I think it's what you guys say.

469
00:29:14,170 --> 00:29:16,290
I go, what do you mean? He goes, well, you say there's, you know, leather,

470
00:29:16,290 --> 00:29:19,690
and you smell this. He goes, I think it's. I said, okay, what do you

471
00:29:19,690 --> 00:29:22,770
think? I said, taste those two wines again. I go, are they different? He said,

472
00:29:22,770 --> 00:29:26,610
yes, they're different. I said, okay, you already started. You just

473
00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:30,450
aren't articulating what the difference is. Well, he watched this

474
00:29:30,610 --> 00:29:33,130
Drops of God. Now, this is a few years ago that we went through this

475
00:29:33,130 --> 00:29:36,770
conversation. He watched Drops of God. They went out that

476
00:29:36,770 --> 00:29:40,620
night to dinner. He ordered a glass of the house poor Bordeaux, and he

477
00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:44,380
started trying to describe it to his wife. And I thought, there's a

478
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:47,220
victory. You know, there's one for the Gipper right there.

479
00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:52,020
He now has that conversation with himself, at least when he tastes

480
00:29:52,020 --> 00:29:55,780
something, to say, wow, this is pretty fascinating, and I'm starting to get it.

481
00:29:57,220 --> 00:30:01,060
But isn't it about the storytelling? I mean, you'll. You'll. If you watch

482
00:30:01,060 --> 00:30:03,860
the show, which you should, because I think you'll be fascinated by it

483
00:30:05,380 --> 00:30:09,140
sometimes knowing the backstory, sometimes understanding what you're

484
00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:12,660
doing. You were in Italy, for instance, with your friend. I mean, what

485
00:30:12,740 --> 00:30:15,700
better place to enjoy a glass of, you know, Brunello or

486
00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:19,900
Barolo or something, and you're sitting watching the, you know, the Parthenon or you're

487
00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:23,619
at the Coliseum. Isn't that part of the story,

488
00:30:23,619 --> 00:30:27,380
though? Isn't that part of the experience where wine really kicks

489
00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:30,420
in and you start to realize, yeah, this enhances

490
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:35,350
by understanding this down to how the wine is

491
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:39,070
made, who's behind making the wine? And the experience

492
00:30:39,310 --> 00:30:43,030
you have while you're drinking it, all of it matters and all of

493
00:30:43,030 --> 00:30:46,710
it tells a story. And we always talk about how you can have

494
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:50,390
that one glass of wine in Italy, wherever you

495
00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:53,390
are just enjoying that glass, and then you have it in the States, and you're

496
00:30:53,390 --> 00:30:57,230
all just in a moment, your mind is immediately back at

497
00:30:57,230 --> 00:31:00,510
that time, and you're remembering the stories that the psalm told you about the wine.

498
00:31:00,510 --> 00:31:04,140
I mean, it's the experience. And I think

499
00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:07,900
that it's important to emphasize

500
00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:11,740
that, yes, you're drinking wine and we want to make sure that you

501
00:31:11,740 --> 00:31:15,020
are enjoying whatever you have. But it's about the moment.

502
00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:19,140
And again, like you said, the story, it's all about the story from

503
00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:22,900
the past all the way down to the present. It's just there's

504
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:26,660
so much history to taste. And here's my definition of terroir. We're going to talk

505
00:31:26,660 --> 00:31:30,370
about women in wine and people of color in wine. It's a very

506
00:31:30,370 --> 00:31:32,970
hot and important subjects that we're facing with. But

507
00:31:35,530 --> 00:31:39,170
the concept of terroir, which is typically defined

508
00:31:39,170 --> 00:31:42,890
as the soil, the sense of time and place

509
00:31:43,530 --> 00:31:47,050
that a wine is made. And I've added that not

510
00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:50,810
solely, I think people agree with me in other tomes I've

511
00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:53,370
read about it, but it also includes

512
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,880
this historical aspect or viewpoint that the

513
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,400
winemaker brings to the table. So if he or she is making a wine, and

514
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,240
here's the analogy I brought up the other day, and I was not one's better

515
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,760
than the other, but if you had two winemakers with 20 years experience

516
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,600
and you gave them the same grapes from the same vineyard from the same time,

517
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,640
the one winemaker had been in that vineyard for 20 years making the same

518
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,640
wine. And one winemaker has traveled the world

519
00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:22,890
and maybe even alternate vintages, Southern hemispheres, northern hemisphere, whatever,

520
00:32:23,050 --> 00:32:26,250
and made 20 vintages from all over the place,

521
00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:30,490
and you're going to get different wines. Absolutely. And so this

522
00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:34,210
says that terroir not only includes the soil and the moment that that

523
00:32:34,210 --> 00:32:36,650
wine was made, but what's brought to the table.

524
00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:41,370
There's a very interesting movement.

525
00:32:42,090 --> 00:32:45,020
There's two movements, as you know, women in wine

526
00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:49,730
and I and I try to peel back, and people

527
00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:53,370
of color as well, how the

528
00:32:53,370 --> 00:32:56,970
industry sort of got going. I mean, if you went to the

529
00:32:56,970 --> 00:33:00,770
Napa Valley vendors association in 1969, you would have seen it was all

530
00:33:00,770 --> 00:33:04,370
white males from all walks of life. That

531
00:33:06,450 --> 00:33:09,770
I don't know if it was deliberately excluded from, or it was the

532
00:33:09,770 --> 00:33:13,390
intimidation of. Or was it the unapproachability of the industry.

533
00:33:13,390 --> 00:33:17,110
What. What do you think created the exclusionary

534
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:20,310
features of the industry? And then what we're doing today

535
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:24,750
to help mitigate that problem. Okay, well, I'll just keep

536
00:33:24,750 --> 00:33:27,910
it two hours worth.

537
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:32,630
Honestly, no. Because the point is this. We

538
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:36,150
live in a misogynistic world, and

539
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:40,620
I don't care to pretend as if reality

540
00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:42,940
isn't reality. Women,

541
00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:48,180
not too long ago, we were just able to vote, including people of

542
00:33:48,180 --> 00:33:51,980
color. So we have to be realistic when we talk

543
00:33:51,980 --> 00:33:55,100
about these things. America's very young,

544
00:33:55,580 --> 00:33:59,420
but the progressions that we've been able to experience in recent years and

545
00:33:59,420 --> 00:34:02,300
even the things that are happening right now that are being threatened,

546
00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:06,660
these are all recent. Having a. A

547
00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:10,380
panel or boardroom or anything, these are things that we still struggle

548
00:34:10,380 --> 00:34:14,140
with today. I went to a predominantly white

549
00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:17,260
boarding school where they wanted to know about our black

550
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:20,900
experiences. And we were speaking to a board full

551
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:24,660
of older white women. And so. You know what I mean? And

552
00:34:24,660 --> 00:34:28,300
it's very difficult. Viewpoints already established, you know,

553
00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:32,060
and so just be clear about history. Be

554
00:34:32,060 --> 00:34:35,820
clear about what the truth is. Why weren't women a part of the

555
00:34:35,820 --> 00:34:39,500
conversation? Why weren't African Americans or people of

556
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:43,300
color a part of the conversation? Historically, we haven't been welcomed

557
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:46,660
to the table, and so that's why we are still

558
00:34:46,820 --> 00:34:50,620
fighting to be able to be welcomed and for our voice

559
00:34:50,620 --> 00:34:53,060
to be respected. It's just history.

560
00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:58,470
Do you think this is like that fight never ends? My

561
00:34:58,470 --> 00:35:02,270
experience, I reached out. I think Maybe it was 10

562
00:35:02,270 --> 00:35:05,950
years ago I reached out to the Napa Valley or the black

563
00:35:05,950 --> 00:35:09,670
Association. Vendor association. I forgot the name. Exactly. And I think there were five

564
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:12,150
or 10 members. And now apparently there's like 250.

565
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:16,710
But this. This struggle, this fight, this continued, is

566
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:20,790
probably never going to end. Probably always have to raise that flag, always be

567
00:35:21,110 --> 00:35:24,960
beating the drum to make sure that people understand that we're

568
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,640
here and we're participating. So I

569
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,720
am a woman of hope. Okay? And

570
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,320
my view on issues,

571
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,880
not even just within the wine industry, but anything that is connected to the point

572
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,280
when we get to a space where we can be honest about

573
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,560
where we are and how we got here, that is the

574
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,970
only way we're going to be able to develop tools

575
00:35:53,130 --> 00:35:56,850
for change. Unfortunately, we are still in a space where people

576
00:35:56,850 --> 00:36:00,330
are afraid of being labeled something, afraid of being

577
00:36:00,330 --> 00:36:03,850
canceled, afraid of a lot. And until we're in an environment

578
00:36:04,330 --> 00:36:08,010
where we feel safe enough to be honest about what we see and what

579
00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:11,810
we've experienced, until we're in a space where we are empathetic to be

580
00:36:11,810 --> 00:36:15,570
able to hear other people's experiences and understand, just because

581
00:36:15,570 --> 00:36:19,360
it's not my experience doesn't mean that their experience isn't true. We're

582
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,120
not going to be able to create the tools that will cultivate a

583
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,280
culture change. And again, that's that DEI coming in.

584
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,960
Culture change is very scary. Cortisol levels

585
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,720
shooting up to the sky, right? That's right. And it's okay.

586
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:38,400
It's all right. But we have to be able to have the

587
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,720
full dialogue. And then for the people in certain

588
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:45,480
circumstances that need change, we need to have trusted people who provide

589
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,150
tools that help support us to that change. And so

590
00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:52,590
the thing is, to answer your question, is it possible?

591
00:36:53,070 --> 00:36:56,190
Yes. But unfortunately, people are people.

592
00:36:56,830 --> 00:37:00,350
And it's going to take the great majority of us coming together

593
00:37:00,670 --> 00:37:04,350
and just being honest and wanting to do better as a community

594
00:37:04,749 --> 00:37:08,590
of people with different backgrounds and different stories and different experiences and different,

595
00:37:08,830 --> 00:37:12,510
you know, views, we have to get to that place. So

596
00:37:12,510 --> 00:37:15,710
it's possible. It's going to take a while. Sorry. That's an interesting thought. Because

597
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:19,950
industry was founded on that. Let's face it. I mean, Robert Mondavi is Italian. Louis

598
00:37:19,950 --> 00:37:23,470
Martini was Italian. There's Germans that came to Napa

599
00:37:23,470 --> 00:37:27,110
Valley. Look at Mike Girgich, Croatian or

600
00:37:27,110 --> 00:37:30,870
Slovenian, came to Napa. And so it always seemed like there was

601
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:35,830
at least no resistance to ethnicity.

602
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:40,390
And maybe because people of color are obvious, that's the issue.

603
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:43,880
Women are. Obviously, that's an issue. And I've done a lot of women on the

604
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,680
show, a lot of women that are breaking barriers here with some ideas.

605
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,440
We'll talk about a couple in a minute. One of them was Aaliyah, forgot

606
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,880
her last name now, but she was making wine from

607
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,320
flowers. Yes. In Oakland. And

608
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,040
despite the fact that this is an amazing thing to do, I was actually very

609
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,840
impressed with this young girl because she not only is making wine, but

610
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,640
she was able to get that California ABC to license a 40 foot

611
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,360
container in a parking lot as a winery. It's taken me forever to get

612
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,920
this building licensed. And she, I mean, how do you do that? But she

613
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,600
said something very fun and very interesting. She said, I, I encountered

614
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,880
racism, sexism and grape supremacy.

615
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,720
Oh, come on. Grape supremacy. You ever heard that one before?

616
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,960
I've never, but I get it. Is that funny? Yeah. I go

617
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,760
into a wine shop and I tell them I have wine for flowers. Like, you

618
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,660
know, get out of here. We don't. We only deal with wine from flowers. But

619
00:38:38,540 --> 00:38:42,220
recently, some of the women I've had on the show, and I'll talk about them

620
00:38:42,220 --> 00:38:45,660
now, When I asked the question, have you.

621
00:38:45,900 --> 00:38:49,660
Do you feel like you've race faced any sexism during

622
00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:53,420
this process? And the answer has been no at this point. Now, hopefully, that's because

623
00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:57,340
of the efforts of you and other people in this industry to break those barriers

624
00:38:57,340 --> 00:39:00,780
down, even though women have better palates than men anyway,

625
00:39:02,220 --> 00:39:05,780
as you know. Who, me?

626
00:39:05,940 --> 00:39:09,780
So. But

627
00:39:09,860 --> 00:39:13,460
it's been very interesting. And they're. I'll talk about three of them.

628
00:39:14,580 --> 00:39:18,420
I don't remember, won't say their names, but all three of them were creating

629
00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:23,180
new avenues of wine packaging. So we're going to talk

630
00:39:23,180 --> 00:39:26,860
about that in a second. And so here they are.

631
00:39:26,860 --> 00:39:29,540
They're women trying to break into an industry

632
00:39:30,740 --> 00:39:34,220
and break into it with a. I'm not gonna say they're revolutionary ideas. I think

633
00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:37,820
they've been around. But they're attacking a segment which is not the

634
00:39:37,820 --> 00:39:41,620
primary segment of wine, and that is canned wines or

635
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:46,140
half bottles in. In glass, whatever they are, premium wines

636
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:49,820
in alternative packaging. And I think,

637
00:39:49,820 --> 00:39:53,300
wow, that's fascinating that they chose not only as a woman to get into the

638
00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:56,870
wine business, but they chose a segment of it that's. Yeah, I

639
00:39:56,870 --> 00:40:00,630
grant it's growing, but it's certainly not part of the

640
00:40:00,630 --> 00:40:02,750
mainstream part of the wine business today.

641
00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:08,910
Have you encountered any racism or sexism

642
00:40:09,150 --> 00:40:11,950
in your travels that you feel like is pretty overt?

643
00:40:13,630 --> 00:40:16,350
Of course, I think that my

644
00:40:16,590 --> 00:40:20,430
experiences are slightly different because I'm isis and I just move

645
00:40:20,430 --> 00:40:23,710
differently in this world. I don't know. Ever since I was a little girl, I've

646
00:40:23,710 --> 00:40:27,240
lived in my own bubble. And whenever there are obstacles,

647
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:31,560
I will either push through or I figure a way around.

648
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,160
I don't. I don't know. That's just how I am. I've had

649
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,960
most of my issues within the wine industry. Hasn't really been

650
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,359
with particular wineries per

651
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,240
se. I think, well, there's two. Two

652
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,880
ways to answer this. Within the wine industry, I think

653
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,640
I've had a harder time with clientele. Like, you know, I've been invited to

654
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,120
certain wineries, especially in California,

655
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,320
where the winery is warm and kind to me, but

656
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,800
when I've gone to their tastings where I am the token. I'm the only black

657
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,520
person in the room. The people who are being hosted will

658
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,280
look at me and make me feel slightly uncomfortable. And I have to put on

659
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,520
the, well, I belong here and just enjoy myself despite

660
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,680
that has happened. But I think that most of my

661
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,310
issues have been on the content creator side, where there are certain

662
00:41:23,470 --> 00:41:27,190
wineries that I know have worked with other friends of

663
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:30,990
mine who are not people of color. But whenever I've tried to work with

664
00:41:30,990 --> 00:41:34,110
them, I've received no's or low ball on

665
00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:38,350
pay. You know, my friends were very open. And so they'll tell

666
00:41:38,350 --> 00:41:42,190
me, well, this is what I charge for this type of content. I'll

667
00:41:42,190 --> 00:41:45,790
ask for that and they'll decline. Or they'll say, well, we can only afford this.

668
00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:49,070
Not knowing that I know other people that they've worked with recently.

669
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:52,970
So it depends.

670
00:41:53,370 --> 00:41:57,170
Yeah, it's definitely out there for sure. Do you think that the

671
00:41:57,170 --> 00:42:00,890
recognition of, let's say, the Kim Lewis in

672
00:42:01,290 --> 00:42:04,970
New Orleans, or Chassis Cooper, Tanya here

673
00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:08,730
in San Francisco, Vincent Morrow at the Press

674
00:42:08,730 --> 00:42:12,570
in Napa, that these kinds of recognitions help

675
00:42:12,570 --> 00:42:15,290
move the needle? Absolutely, of course.

676
00:42:16,410 --> 00:42:20,130
And I want to say this because when you were speaking before,

677
00:42:20,130 --> 00:42:23,910
it came to mind, and now it's relevant again. Women

678
00:42:24,310 --> 00:42:28,150
and people of color have been making wine and assisting in

679
00:42:28,150 --> 00:42:31,790
making wine since the beginning of time, just like everyone else. It's

680
00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:35,190
important that we know that. But also,

681
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:39,510
when I came into the wine industry, I said, oh my gosh, there

682
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:43,190
needs to be more African American people. Why don't I see people like me

683
00:42:43,190 --> 00:42:46,710
here? Once I got into the community

684
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:50,690
of wine professionals, I looked around and saw that there are lots of us

685
00:42:50,690 --> 00:42:54,410
here. It's just that we aren't recognized. It's that when

686
00:42:54,410 --> 00:42:57,170
it's time to allow us to the table to speak,

687
00:42:57,890 --> 00:43:01,290
there's only one that's allowed. And then that one person is

688
00:43:01,290 --> 00:43:05,130
constantly hired for everything. So all you see is Julia Kony.

689
00:43:05,130 --> 00:43:07,730
All you see is Noel Burgess. You know what I mean? All you see is

690
00:43:07,730 --> 00:43:11,370
Isis Daniel. And you feel like, oh, we're not there,

691
00:43:11,370 --> 00:43:15,090
or we've never really made wine. And that's not true. During

692
00:43:15,090 --> 00:43:18,890
the Prohibition, all of the black people who have vineyards, they had to rip

693
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:22,630
up their. Their too. When we started over as a

694
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:25,870
country, we already know that as African American people,

695
00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:29,750
we don't get to start at the same place. So when we start

696
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:33,510
making wines again, it's as if the history that we

697
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:37,150
had in this country didn't even happen. So

698
00:43:37,150 --> 00:43:40,590
again, we have to have these conversations but we have to be

699
00:43:40,590 --> 00:43:44,270
realistic and honest about what the history is. Women

700
00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:48,260
and people of color have always been in wine. It's just that we need

701
00:43:48,260 --> 00:43:52,100
to have space to show up and it not be just the same

702
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:55,860
person over and over again. All of my wine friends who

703
00:43:55,860 --> 00:43:59,540
are pushing the needle and showing up, every time I'm

704
00:43:59,540 --> 00:44:02,740
able to pull someone else and say, hey, I know you want to hire me,

705
00:44:02,740 --> 00:44:06,260
but I think this person might be better. We do a lot of that within

706
00:44:06,260 --> 00:44:10,100
our community so that we can constantly have new faces

707
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:12,380
show up and represent for us.

708
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:16,630
Very noble and bold thing to do.

709
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:23,470
My experience has been, I mean, look, I'm a white male, so let's, you

710
00:44:23,470 --> 00:44:27,190
know, be honest with that. I wish. It's okay. I appreciate

711
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:30,910
that. Oh, my. Listen, can I say something just in

712
00:44:30,910 --> 00:44:34,670
case it needs to be said? Privilege is a

713
00:44:34,670 --> 00:44:38,150
thing, right? Privilege is only not okay when you

714
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:41,930
aren't willing to help other people or when you benefit from it and

715
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:45,650
you ignore the pain or the hardship of others. Just because you have

716
00:44:45,650 --> 00:44:49,330
a privilege is not a problem. Okay? But it's important

717
00:44:49,410 --> 00:44:52,530
that you care. I have my own privileges as a woman,

718
00:44:52,850 --> 00:44:56,450
sometimes even as a black woman. You know, it depends on the environment

719
00:44:56,530 --> 00:45:00,290
and where I am. But how do I care for the other

720
00:45:00,290 --> 00:45:03,970
people who are not getting the same? That is it. So,

721
00:45:04,130 --> 00:45:07,850
yes, you're a white man, you white man. It's okay. I feel better. I feel

722
00:45:07,850 --> 00:45:11,530
better already. We do try to help. That's kind of who.

723
00:45:11,530 --> 00:45:15,050
Okay, Just come on. Well, all right. It's an interesting

724
00:45:15,290 --> 00:45:18,930
notion because I have a three year old granddaughter who

725
00:45:18,930 --> 00:45:22,170
just was cleared of kidney cancer

726
00:45:23,050 --> 00:45:26,890
and she spent a lot of time in the children's hospital in Los Angeles.

727
00:45:26,890 --> 00:45:29,810
And, and you know, it's very tragic to watch a three year old go through

728
00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:33,310
that. But my mother, my, my mother, my wife, that was not a

729
00:45:33,310 --> 00:45:35,150
Freudian slip. My wife said,

730
00:45:37,470 --> 00:45:41,230
she goes, you know, there's so many people here who's. Who don't

731
00:45:41,230 --> 00:45:43,950
have the means that we have, that don't have the family support. We have to

732
00:45:43,950 --> 00:45:47,670
forget the money, just the family support. Two sets of grandparents that are capable of

733
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:51,470
taking care of kids that don't have access to the health care.

734
00:45:51,630 --> 00:45:55,470
I mean, they have access because it's children's hospital, but there's still levels

735
00:45:55,470 --> 00:45:59,250
of access. Right? And so she came away, said, I'm going to start, you know,

736
00:45:59,250 --> 00:46:02,250
charity group or work with a charity group to give people that come into this

737
00:46:02,250 --> 00:46:06,010
hospital that have, that are a single parent that maybe have another child who

738
00:46:06,010 --> 00:46:08,690
they have to take to school every day, but the other one's in the hospital

739
00:46:08,770 --> 00:46:12,570
getting, you know, cancer treatments. We've got to give them a voice and

740
00:46:12,570 --> 00:46:16,370
a chance to, to have the same treatment that we received,

741
00:46:16,450 --> 00:46:20,210
which is very good. And it's sort of the same thing. It's sort of

742
00:46:20,210 --> 00:46:23,810
like if you're not going to use the assets you have and the

743
00:46:23,810 --> 00:46:27,200
privileges you have to help other people, then you just,

744
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,200
you're very self centered and very narcissistic about it. Right? Uh,

745
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,800
yeah, yeah. Hello. I mean, you would

746
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,160
think that this conversation is just like,

747
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,920
obviously. But you know, again, it goes back to that

748
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,720
culture change conversation. Right. People who are in

749
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:49,400
a place of, of certain privileges also have a certain

750
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,050
level of power and people do not want to lose

751
00:46:53,050 --> 00:46:55,770
that power. If you are king of the world, why would you not want to

752
00:46:55,770 --> 00:46:59,450
be king of the world? I understand, but is it ethical?

753
00:46:59,530 --> 00:47:03,290
Is it okay? Is it right? You know, and this is a self

754
00:47:03,290 --> 00:47:07,130
examination thing, but, you know, don't. My soapbox has started.

755
00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:11,650
But you just touched on the worst part of American politics, which is, which is

756
00:47:11,650 --> 00:47:15,450
not modern. People try to think that some of the issues we're going through

757
00:47:15,450 --> 00:47:19,240
today are contemporary and they're not history just repeating

758
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:23,000
itself over your power. Your power concept is all about that. You know,

759
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,440
since we're Talking about Washington D.C. and power in

760
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,000
politics, I was watching, I listened to one of your

761
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,760
podcasts. You're talking about the D.C. wine caucus,

762
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,240
and I spent some time Washington working. My wife did too. And

763
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,160
I find it fascinating that this caucus exists and that's a group of

764
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,860
senators and congressmen that get together and, and discuss and

765
00:47:45,860 --> 00:47:48,620
hopefully move the needle in favor of the industry.

766
00:47:49,660 --> 00:47:52,660
I wonder if it's kind of an internal lobby group. Right, so it's a lobby

767
00:47:52,660 --> 00:47:56,420
thing. But you were laughing like I didn't even. I live here.

768
00:47:56,420 --> 00:48:00,180
I didn't know this existed. So what'd you find out about it? What does

769
00:48:00,180 --> 00:48:03,500
it do? What did it try to do? Oh my gosh. So my

770
00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:06,980
understanding, and I'm still doing research and I want to make sure that, you know,

771
00:48:06,980 --> 00:48:09,340
whatever I say, listeners, please give me some grace.

772
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,080
So, you know, the Congressional Wine Caucus are a group of

773
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,480
representatives of all 50 states where they

774
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,360
are representing the wine industry's interests. They work with

775
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,920
people, wine groups like Wine America and other groups like that that

776
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,280
speak on behalf of all wine people

777
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,560
now. And you know, of course passing legislative laws and all

778
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,030
the things, they work with all the committees and Da, da, da. Right. But

779
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:41,350
yeah, I was very disappointed that I didn't know, I signed up

780
00:48:41,350 --> 00:48:45,110
for. What is it called? I think it's like wine business dot

781
00:48:45,110 --> 00:48:48,910
com. They send articles to my email every day, which,

782
00:48:48,910 --> 00:48:52,070
if you are in the industry, you want to learn more about the wine industry,

783
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:55,870
I recommend doing that. My mom told me, if you want to

784
00:48:55,870 --> 00:48:59,710
become an informed professional, read an article a day.

785
00:48:59,710 --> 00:49:03,540
So I try my best to do that. And that's how I discovered. Right. Come

786
00:49:03,540 --> 00:49:07,220
on, Mom. But that's how I discovered the Congressional Wine

787
00:49:07,220 --> 00:49:10,620
Caucus. Because they were. They were doing something.

788
00:49:10,780 --> 00:49:14,620
But I was just. I was in shock because I

789
00:49:14,620 --> 00:49:18,140
didn't know who they were. And I was like, okay, so the lobbyists,

790
00:49:18,140 --> 00:49:21,940
they're clearly passing laws and it's all in interest of us, but why

791
00:49:21,940 --> 00:49:25,420
don't I know them? I made a post about it saying, yeah, who else

792
00:49:25,420 --> 00:49:28,940
knows my following online ranges? I have wine

793
00:49:28,940 --> 00:49:32,690
novice wine enthusiasts and wine professionals. The wine professionals didn't

794
00:49:32,690 --> 00:49:35,770
know who they were. And to me, I have the question,

795
00:49:36,650 --> 00:49:40,010
how is it? And I have followers, my wine professional friends.

796
00:49:40,410 --> 00:49:43,650
They've been in the game for a very long time and some even live in

797
00:49:43,650 --> 00:49:47,410
D.C. how do we not know who the Wine

798
00:49:47,410 --> 00:49:51,210
Caucus, Congressional Wine Caucus is? And I mean, if you're

799
00:49:51,450 --> 00:49:54,810
speaking for us on behalf of us, representing us,

800
00:49:55,610 --> 00:49:59,230
we should know who you are. Yeah, that's interesting. Problem.

801
00:49:59,710 --> 00:50:03,230
The Wine Institute. I use the Wine Institute here in

802
00:50:03,470 --> 00:50:06,430
San Francisco quite a bit for my information on

803
00:50:07,790 --> 00:50:11,230
all things wine. It's a lobby group for wineries,

804
00:50:12,830 --> 00:50:16,430
and I suppose they've interacted, but I wonder what they do,

805
00:50:16,430 --> 00:50:20,230
because you said, like you said, there's been no press. You don't read about it.

806
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:23,870
You don't read about decisions. We still have this huge conflict between

807
00:50:24,580 --> 00:50:27,860
post Prohibition rules, the 50 state rules, and

808
00:50:28,180 --> 00:50:31,620
the commerce clause, which doesn't allow. I mean, just frankly,

809
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:35,900
besides sold my company, which was a few months ago, we

810
00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:39,300
were processing tax returns in like 32 states

811
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:42,820
because every state's got a different rule

812
00:50:44,580 --> 00:50:48,380
and it's the only product in the world, right? And what's really

813
00:50:48,380 --> 00:50:51,880
interesting, maybe you don't know this, that all the laws

814
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,320
written up until relatively recently that dealt with

815
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,000
interstate shipping of alcohol were only written around wine.

816
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,720
They didn't apply to beer and they didn't apply to spirits. Some of that's changed,

817
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:06,320
but it's still predominantly wine. And how we

818
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,360
protect the wine industries in our own

819
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,720
jurisdiction, and that's basically the wholesaler's

820
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:16,280
lobby will prevent. It's just like the NRA will prevent anything

821
00:51:16,730 --> 00:51:20,570
with guns to be any new needle to be moved. And the wholesalers

822
00:51:20,570 --> 00:51:23,690
of America. WSWA will fight

823
00:51:24,330 --> 00:51:28,010
tooth and nail to keep. Keep those laws from being

824
00:51:28,250 --> 00:51:31,970
removed because they protect the inside. And I wonder about alcohol,

825
00:51:31,970 --> 00:51:35,690
why. It's, you know, I guess, I guess because

826
00:51:35,690 --> 00:51:39,130
it's post gangster, you know, business

827
00:51:39,290 --> 00:51:42,970
that these things are protected. I don't. I don't know. Post gangster, it's still

828
00:51:42,970 --> 00:51:46,780
gangster if you really think about it. It really. Yes. I mean,

829
00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:50,580
because it's control. During the prohibition, we

830
00:51:50,580 --> 00:51:54,180
know that like spirits in general,

831
00:51:54,180 --> 00:51:57,900
it boomed underground. Bootlegging was a thing

832
00:51:58,380 --> 00:52:02,099
illegally important wines from other countries coming

833
00:52:02,099 --> 00:52:05,140
in despite it not, you know, we're not supposed to do it, but the wealthy

834
00:52:05,140 --> 00:52:08,940
still had means and money to do it. We, I think that they looked

835
00:52:08,940 --> 00:52:12,670
at it and said, there's so much money that came in, we

836
00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:16,230
need to control that and have that. And I think that it

837
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:19,950
hasn't changed since. I also feel that, you know,

838
00:52:20,270 --> 00:52:23,910
if you are trying to do your due diligence to

839
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:27,670
understand our industry, you're going to learn about Congressional Wine Caucus, I believe that's why

840
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:31,310
I came across it. You're going to learn about all these other lobbying groups because

841
00:52:31,310 --> 00:52:34,510
you are trying to invest in your knowledge. Right.

842
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:38,650
But I think that most people don't invest in their knowledge as a

843
00:52:38,650 --> 00:52:42,330
whole. Most people follow. Okay. And it's not a

844
00:52:42,330 --> 00:52:45,930
problem. You have to have a queen bee who has a whole bunch of

845
00:52:45,930 --> 00:52:49,730
worker bees. It's just how it is. Sure, okay. But the thing is,

846
00:52:49,730 --> 00:52:53,170
I believe that they found a way to keep

847
00:52:54,050 --> 00:52:57,730
the wine industry's interests. Laws,

848
00:52:58,210 --> 00:53:01,970
you know, everything that we could have influenced to change if we

849
00:53:01,970 --> 00:53:05,460
all came together. I believe it's on purpose, right underneath the

850
00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:08,860
radar to keep things under control. And I think

851
00:53:10,540 --> 00:53:13,740
now that we know and you know and I know we need to blow this

852
00:53:13,740 --> 00:53:17,580
thing up because we have representatives in every single state

853
00:53:17,740 --> 00:53:21,260
and we talk about shipping laws, we talk about tariffs, we talk about all the

854
00:53:21,260 --> 00:53:24,980
issues that we have. What if we came together as communities and

855
00:53:24,980 --> 00:53:28,140
talked to our representatives and pressed and applied pressure?

856
00:53:28,700 --> 00:53:32,310
Would things change? I don't know. We have to. Well, it's an interesting

857
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:36,110
thought. Finish with

858
00:53:36,110 --> 00:53:39,870
this conversation with this part. There's a woman who wrote a book called Tangled Vines.

859
00:53:39,870 --> 00:53:43,670
It's about the arson, fraud, murder, all the bad things in life

860
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:47,670
in the wine sector. It's a woman named Frances Deaconspiel. She's been on the

861
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:51,510
show. Fascinating woman. She stumbled across the issues

862
00:53:51,590 --> 00:53:55,310
because of a huge fire in Sausalino a few

863
00:53:55,310 --> 00:53:58,980
years ago and some of her great grandparents wines

864
00:53:58,980 --> 00:54:02,460
burned from the 1800s. She didn't know they even existed. Blah, blah, blah.

865
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:06,900
And what she comes out of this book saying is that there,

866
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:10,140
even though these things are felonies,

867
00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:14,220
much of these things that happen in the wine industry, there was no federal

868
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:18,940
interest in prosecuting or going after

869
00:54:19,340 --> 00:54:23,180
anybody. There was just no level. The only reason that Rudy

870
00:54:23,180 --> 00:54:26,860
got busted for making fake wine was because he screwed

871
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:30,660
the Koch brothers. So there he's talking about influence and money.

872
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:34,540
Those guys said, look, we got screwed. You're going to do something about it. And

873
00:54:34,540 --> 00:54:38,260
then they end up catching this guy and fixing it. Joe Franzia, the famed

874
00:54:38,660 --> 00:54:42,300
Charles Shaw creator who passed away recently. Nice

875
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:45,740
guy. Had a lot of conversation with him. I mean, he was

876
00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:49,540
busted as a felony by putting the wrong, you

877
00:54:49,540 --> 00:54:53,320
know, bottling of wine as white cinnamon, but having grape Grenache or Carignan in it,

878
00:54:53,710 --> 00:54:57,270
and they never. They find him. And so there's no

879
00:54:57,270 --> 00:55:01,030
huge awareness of what I'm trying to get to in the federal level to worry

880
00:55:01,030 --> 00:55:03,710
about it. Right. And so maybe you're right. Maybe.

881
00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:08,470
Maybe it takes everybody to gang together and start putting pressure

882
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:12,110
to change some of these rules because they're ridiculous and archaic. You know,

883
00:55:12,110 --> 00:55:15,950
what we have to do. What I've been. Okay, so my research has

884
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:18,510
been really trying to understand

885
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,960
wine in the legislative world, because when we

886
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,520
talk about ways and means, we talk about agriculture, we talk

887
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,080
about all of the. Of the committees and the different

888
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:34,760
committees that wine is connected to. It makes

889
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,120
me question how do we get

890
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,200
the average Joe to care, you know, And I

891
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,970
think once we are able to communicate wine at

892
00:55:45,970 --> 00:55:49,330
that level, we'll be able to start asking real

893
00:55:49,330 --> 00:55:53,050
questions as a community. That's why, you know, I've been thinking

894
00:55:53,050 --> 00:55:56,810
about this and researching this for a while, and then, you know, traveling. I'm

895
00:55:56,810 --> 00:56:00,090
at my travel season, so things had to pause for a second. But

896
00:56:00,810 --> 00:56:04,170
my goal has been trying to figure out

897
00:56:04,570 --> 00:56:07,450
how to talk about wine

898
00:56:08,730 --> 00:56:12,410
in business and in, you know, again, wine law, legislative

899
00:56:12,980 --> 00:56:16,420
lobbying, all of that. The same way I was able to talk about wine in

900
00:56:16,420 --> 00:56:20,140
a community drinking way. I got people to be interested

901
00:56:20,140 --> 00:56:23,780
because I spoke wine in their language. But I need people to

902
00:56:23,780 --> 00:56:27,460
understand all of the different ways wine is connected

903
00:56:27,460 --> 00:56:31,220
to our everyday lives. And if you care, you can be a part of

904
00:56:31,220 --> 00:56:34,420
this conversation. But I also feel that it will bloom

905
00:56:35,060 --> 00:56:38,860
to really being a part of, you know, a

906
00:56:38,860 --> 00:56:42,660
lot of the politics that we are afraid to discuss and afraid to be a

907
00:56:42,660 --> 00:56:45,750
part of and to vote and to come out and truly be a part of

908
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:49,310
the process. I think wine could be a catalyst to that if

909
00:56:49,310 --> 00:56:52,070
we discover how to communicate it effectively.

910
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:56,550
Good point. Yeah. You know, you know that the Congressional Caucus guys or

911
00:56:56,550 --> 00:56:59,830
women are going home and having a really nice glass of wine.

912
00:57:00,710 --> 00:57:04,150
Yeah. I really enjoy being on this caucus, you know. Right.

913
00:57:05,350 --> 00:57:08,310
It's taught me a lot about wine. But, you know, it's kind of hard to

914
00:57:08,310 --> 00:57:12,150
move the needle, I suppose, because really. And I

915
00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:14,910
used to use this number when I was pitching things at the Wine of the

916
00:57:14,910 --> 00:57:18,710
Month Club, which was really, truly, if you ask the winest to

917
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:22,270
25% of the population drinks wine, of which that

918
00:57:22,270 --> 00:57:26,110
includes somebody that goes to Olive Garden, orders the house Chianti that they don't really

919
00:57:26,110 --> 00:57:29,830
understand, but they know what they're drinking. It's a small population

920
00:57:29,830 --> 00:57:33,630
to rally. And if it's not affecting

921
00:57:33,630 --> 00:57:37,190
me directly, why do I care? I can go to the market and buy a

922
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:40,610
glass of wine. Buy a nice wine. You know, it's already

923
00:57:40,690 --> 00:57:44,210
been 50 minutes, which is fascinating because it

924
00:57:44,210 --> 00:57:45,330
happens quickly.

925
00:57:48,050 --> 00:57:51,330
And this show airs in Atlanta

926
00:57:52,130 --> 00:57:55,289
on a radio station as well. So I have to keep it around 50 to

927
00:57:55,289 --> 00:57:58,690
52 minutes to get it done. But I think we could do this again.

928
00:57:59,010 --> 00:58:02,730
Oh, continue the conversation. Yes, I would love

929
00:58:02,730 --> 00:58:06,210
that. As things happen. Are you ever in Southern California or in the

930
00:58:06,210 --> 00:58:09,150
Napa region particular? I was just there

931
00:58:10,110 --> 00:58:13,790
two weekends ago. Work or

932
00:58:13,790 --> 00:58:17,310
research or fun work. But

933
00:58:17,470 --> 00:58:21,310
I had a lot of fun. I was creating content at the

934
00:58:22,030 --> 00:58:25,710
Blue Note Jazz Fest in Napa. And so we were able to do that

935
00:58:25,950 --> 00:58:29,470
last year. This year again. And honestly,

936
00:58:29,630 --> 00:58:32,990
wonderful time we had. They. This year they had a wine garden

937
00:58:33,390 --> 00:58:37,190
where they featured a lot of black wines that I feel deserve. You

938
00:58:37,190 --> 00:58:40,950
know, shout out. My favorite winery that was featured. I'm only going to shout out.

939
00:58:40,950 --> 00:58:44,430
One was Theopolis, and

940
00:58:44,430 --> 00:58:47,790
I love her wines. Theo. Excellent winemaker

941
00:58:47,790 --> 00:58:51,550
Vitner does all of it, and her wines are excellent.

942
00:58:51,710 --> 00:58:55,230
So shout out to. I. I think I saw some

943
00:58:55,230 --> 00:58:59,070
footage that you released from there. Yes. I was like, yes, I did.

944
00:58:59,510 --> 00:59:03,190
Yeah. I'm gonna lean on you after. In the next week or two.

945
00:59:03,590 --> 00:59:07,270
I have a TV show that I'm pitching, and it's.

946
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:10,550
I have Anthony, one of Anthony Bourdain's

947
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:15,589
producers on my team. And it's about the stories of wine, basically.

948
00:59:16,070 --> 00:59:18,470
And I'm gonna lean on you because you were talking about

949
00:59:19,830 --> 00:59:23,270
Dwyane Wade and his wines. So there must be a lot of

950
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:27,030
celebrity people of color that have wines or want to have wines.

951
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:31,040
These are the stories I want to tell, amongst many others. Yes.

952
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,040
To highlight that I was at a. I was at an Armenian event, oddly, in

953
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,840
Armenian and Somebody showed me a picture of

954
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,360
a seller that he's working on for a client, and

955
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:46,040
stacked on this. The picture, which is bizarre, was a Hue, which is a

956
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,200
Loire Valley wine. Well, this guy Hue was, like,

957
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,520
arrested during the war and put in jail by the Nazis

958
00:59:53,970 --> 00:59:57,810
and has this story behind him is incredible. So this guy is, like, showing

959
00:59:57,810 --> 01:00:01,530
me this picture because he's building the cellar. I said, do you have any idea

960
01:00:01,530 --> 01:00:05,170
what this wine represents? And that's what I'm trying to get to. Like, what does

961
01:00:05,170 --> 01:00:08,930
this wine represent? What is. What does Dwayne's wine represent? What does Theopolis

962
01:00:08,930 --> 01:00:12,690
represent? I think those are the stories that we want to tell. Oh, yes.

963
01:00:13,570 --> 01:00:16,210
And so that's what I do on tasting Thursdays

964
01:00:17,490 --> 01:00:20,970
on Instagram Live, when I interview different wineries. I've been doing it since

965
01:00:20,970 --> 01:00:23,970
2020. During the pandemic. Different wineries,

966
01:00:23,970 --> 01:00:27,770
winemakers, wine lovers alike will come on and

967
01:00:27,770 --> 01:00:31,290
we talk about their story, their journey over a glass of

968
01:00:31,290 --> 01:00:35,130
wine. And it's fun. You know, I sing my little jingle

969
01:00:35,130 --> 01:00:38,650
that people love. We have a great time. But really, the story

970
01:00:38,730 --> 01:00:42,250
behind wine is my passion, getting to know the people. So

971
01:00:42,250 --> 01:00:46,090
I'm absolutely down to help. Just let me know what you need. Awesome. We're

972
01:00:46,090 --> 01:00:49,810
gonna have fun. Thank you so much for the time today and look

973
01:00:49,810 --> 01:00:52,930
forward to. I'll send you the credentials when this thing gets published, which will be

974
01:00:52,930 --> 01:00:56,290
probably pretty soon since I'm a little tight on my schedule right now, but

975
01:00:56,610 --> 01:01:00,250
fascinating conversation and wish you luck in all the future endeavors.

976
01:01:00,250 --> 01:01:03,930
And certainly if we're cross paths somewhere in town,

977
01:01:03,930 --> 01:01:06,930
we have to have a glass of wine. Absolutely. I gotcha.

978
01:01:07,330 --> 01:01:08,850
Cheers. Cheers.