Behind the Lens: How Klaus de Jong Brings Wine Culture to the World

1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,280
The way you know, what is the difference between artistic movies and

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,520
movies for cinema? Cinema movies always is about

3
00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,280
heroes and art house movies are always about losers. Think

4
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,320
about this. Sit back and grab a glass.

5
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,600
It's Wine Talks with Paul K.

6
00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,160
Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are in the studio today

7
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,590
in beautiful Southern California, about to have a conversation about with Klaus

8
00:00:26,990 --> 00:00:30,590
de Jong of Friesland, Holland. Is it Holland?

9
00:00:31,070 --> 00:00:33,870
Yes, it's Holland in the northern part. Very small.

10
00:00:34,910 --> 00:00:38,550
So it says here. I got this off of Chap GPT or

11
00:00:38,550 --> 00:00:42,270
Claude, one of them, Claus Jung, a Friesland based film producer

12
00:00:42,270 --> 00:00:45,790
and entrepreneur based in Ernawald. He studied

13
00:00:45,790 --> 00:00:49,070
electronics at the Technical University in Delft.

14
00:00:49,630 --> 00:00:52,910
You know, these words are not. You said the English might be the word. You

15
00:00:52,910 --> 00:00:56,550
know, Dutch might have been the language of New York, but I can't think of

16
00:00:56,550 --> 00:01:00,210
the word. It's a very harsh language. It is very

17
00:01:00,210 --> 00:01:04,050
hard. So anyway, before moving into creative work as founder of

18
00:01:04,050 --> 00:01:07,570
Farmhouse Film and TV, he produced more than 30 Dutch feature

19
00:01:07,570 --> 00:01:10,210
films, most famously Michel de

20
00:01:10,930 --> 00:01:14,490
Rutter at Redbad. In 2017, he launched

21
00:01:14,490 --> 00:01:17,810
Mind Masters TV. This is

22
00:01:17,810 --> 00:01:21,250
fascinating for me because I've been following you and paying attention to what you're doing

23
00:01:21,570 --> 00:01:25,210
and reading your bio and the

24
00:01:25,210 --> 00:01:28,800
questions I have listed here. You have turned Wine

25
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,840
Masters TV into a preeminent

26
00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:35,680
education source for wine aficionados and

27
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,120
professionals. Is that. Was that the objective

28
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,120
when you started this? No, no, I'm from entertainment, you

29
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,840
see. Already said these films, by the way, in America, as

30
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,560
Michelle, the writer is called Epidural. It's. It's also in America.

31
00:01:55,490 --> 00:01:57,890
You can find it in some streamers. But

32
00:01:59,410 --> 00:02:03,250
no, that was not the idea. I just wanted to make entertainment. And I was.

33
00:02:03,250 --> 00:02:07,090
We were figuring out why there was no wine shows on tv. There's

34
00:02:07,090 --> 00:02:10,730
so many food shows and this wanted to make something with

35
00:02:10,730 --> 00:02:14,290
wine. And I had the idea that probably everyone

36
00:02:14,290 --> 00:02:17,970
wanted to have that, but that wasn't happening. And

37
00:02:17,970 --> 00:02:21,370
I know now why, because television in general, they boycott

38
00:02:21,370 --> 00:02:24,010
alcohol. And I think it's too niche.

39
00:02:25,370 --> 00:02:29,090
But uncertain moment. There was Chef's Table on Netflix and

40
00:02:29,090 --> 00:02:32,690
that was done in a cinema way that's

41
00:02:32,690 --> 00:02:36,250
different. It's a different way of shooting. And because I'm from

42
00:02:36,250 --> 00:02:39,290
cinema, that's what I'm doing already for 30 years,

43
00:02:40,010 --> 00:02:43,770
for me was more easy to adapt that style from

44
00:02:43,930 --> 00:02:47,450
Chef's Table and translate that to wine. And

45
00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:51,420
later on we made also studio shows, et cetera. But the

46
00:02:51,420 --> 00:02:55,180
beginning, it was really meant as pure entertainment and in a cinema

47
00:02:55,420 --> 00:02:58,380
kind of style for on

48
00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:02,380
Amazon and that kind of for the streams, Apple tv, et

49
00:03:02,380 --> 00:03:06,060
cetera. It's an interesting approach because, you know, wine is

50
00:03:06,060 --> 00:03:09,900
such a small percentage of the people that understand or care to understand

51
00:03:09,980 --> 00:03:13,820
or are interested in wine. If you ask in America, if you

52
00:03:13,820 --> 00:03:16,620
ask 100,000 people, do you drink wine?

53
00:03:17,110 --> 00:03:20,830
25,000 would raise their hand. But some of those are just, you know,

54
00:03:20,830 --> 00:03:24,550
Italian, you know, restaurant wine drinkers and they don't drink it at home.

55
00:03:24,550 --> 00:03:27,830
So for you to feel like there was a

56
00:03:27,830 --> 00:03:31,590
marketplace to show a cinematic, Cinematic. Cinematic

57
00:03:31,990 --> 00:03:35,830
approach to wine is very interesting to me. And you know,

58
00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:39,590
the production value of your product is very high and

59
00:03:39,590 --> 00:03:43,390
I can see then the cinematic background. But. So

60
00:03:43,390 --> 00:03:46,350
you did it, you did it as a hobby at this point. Yeah.

61
00:03:47,950 --> 00:03:51,670
And still I see. Still I still see it as a hobby. And

62
00:03:51,670 --> 00:03:54,590
how is it? I don't like, I don't like to work.

63
00:03:56,270 --> 00:03:59,910
Well, that's a good point. It's gotten past

64
00:03:59,910 --> 00:04:03,670
that because it sounds like it's being used for the Master of

65
00:04:03,670 --> 00:04:06,510
Wine program and all types of W set

66
00:04:08,350 --> 00:04:11,890
education as well. There's a lot of wine schools using

67
00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:13,250
it also in the States.

68
00:04:15,490 --> 00:04:19,090
All kinds of. Yeah, a lot of educational

69
00:04:19,810 --> 00:04:23,450
use is it? And that wasn't started in that way. In a certain

70
00:04:23,450 --> 00:04:26,650
moment I found out that the documentaries find their way on Amazon,

71
00:04:26,650 --> 00:04:30,450
etc. But to have a channel and people have to pay

72
00:04:31,010 --> 00:04:34,770
subscriptions and it's best to move a little bit to the educational part.

73
00:04:34,770 --> 00:04:36,690
But we still call it

74
00:04:38,290 --> 00:04:41,250
edutainment, as you say in the entertainment world.

75
00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:44,770
So it's educational and entertainment at the same time.

76
00:04:46,610 --> 00:04:50,130
Talk about an English word, edutainment. That's difficult.

77
00:04:51,170 --> 00:04:54,970
I don't know. There's not English words, but in the world of

78
00:04:54,970 --> 00:04:58,770
content, it's quite, quite. There's

79
00:04:58,770 --> 00:05:01,330
a word that use a lot. You know, it's one thing to,

80
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,080
to bite this off and get into the wine world. And I've been 35 years

81
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,600
just sort of, you know, the podcast is now five years old

82
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,280
and I see the headwinds of the industry in general. So you've got, you've not

83
00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:15,920
only have the headwinds of. Of

84
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,480
cinema and you're. We're going to talk about the Dutch film market in a

85
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,200
minute. But media has headwinds to

86
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,840
get people to watch and then wine has headwinds to get people to

87
00:05:28,910 --> 00:05:32,710
venture out of their comfort zone and try wine or try to do

88
00:05:32,710 --> 00:05:36,470
things. How did this, how did it grow

89
00:05:36,470 --> 00:05:40,190
like that? With both of those being substantial headwinds

90
00:05:40,430 --> 00:05:44,190
in both industries, you've been able to land this thing At

91
00:05:44,190 --> 00:05:47,230
a point where, you know, people are watching and noticing.

92
00:05:48,910 --> 00:05:52,190
Yeah, I think my background is. Is

93
00:05:53,470 --> 00:05:57,320
important. So from my background I know what the standards

94
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,080
are the streamers want to have and all kinds of TV stations and what

95
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,320
the level should be of. Of the

96
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,840
entertainment. And that is something what we

97
00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:11,680
understood very well from, from. From the filming point of view, the cinema point of

98
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,400
view. So I, I know the international sales business

99
00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,200
very, very well. And because all our movies are sold also abroad. They

100
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,720
do it, they do it in general. But. So

101
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,960
for me it was a kind of

102
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,160
logical thing. But what really happened, we would. The idea was

103
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,960
to shoot another movie in 2020 in Morocco as an

104
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,640
action rom com actually. And then Corona came.

105
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,240
Rom Com. Wow. Action Rom Com. Yeah, that is something like.

106
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:48,820
Yeah. No, that was not a dvd. He wrote the script and we had money

107
00:06:48,820 --> 00:06:51,740
on it, so we could do it, but we couldn't do it because of course

108
00:06:51,740 --> 00:06:55,300
Corona Morocco was closed. We were very

109
00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:58,900
fanatic about that. And then we had this idea,

110
00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:02,460
okay, we have now a bunch of documentaries. Maybe we can start a

111
00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:07,140
channel. Because I didn't believe the movie business would

112
00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:10,860
come back in take at least three years, at least. And

113
00:07:10,860 --> 00:07:14,500
took four years in the end. And the still is only on 50% at the

114
00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:18,170
moment in the cinema. And so still not

115
00:07:18,170 --> 00:07:21,890
good. So we had this idea suddenly

116
00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:25,570
we had time. I had the idea, okay, we start. We started the channel,

117
00:07:26,450 --> 00:07:30,250
but from the beginning. And that's what I tried to explain. Just I didn't explain

118
00:07:30,250 --> 00:07:33,730
right from the beginning. My, my background was. I know

119
00:07:33,970 --> 00:07:37,210
if we make content, we don't do that for a YouTube channel or for our

120
00:07:37,210 --> 00:07:40,810
own channel. It should be at. That should be on a level that you can

121
00:07:40,810 --> 00:07:44,410
sell it to food stations or any airlines or whatever,

122
00:07:44,410 --> 00:07:48,130
or streamers. So for us is that

123
00:07:48,370 --> 00:07:51,250
very important. So we have no sponsoring at all.

124
00:07:52,370 --> 00:07:55,890
Also no advertisement which shows always our subject

125
00:07:55,890 --> 00:07:59,569
self independent people never are paying or whatever.

126
00:07:59,730 --> 00:08:02,130
Sometimes you get a bottle if you go away, but that's it.

127
00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:07,250
But that was for me

128
00:08:08,050 --> 00:08:11,790
very important. The content we create also for our own

129
00:08:11,790 --> 00:08:15,030
channel. So the, the Wine Master channel that should be also

130
00:08:15,270 --> 00:08:18,470
suitable on other platforms. So. And that is actually the

131
00:08:18,710 --> 00:08:22,310
channel is only I think 20% of the whole

132
00:08:22,470 --> 00:08:26,230
thing. The most of the shows are going to mine schools or

133
00:08:26,470 --> 00:08:30,230
airlines. Last week American airlines sold

134
00:08:30,230 --> 00:08:33,590
bought 30 shows in once. Wow.

135
00:08:34,830 --> 00:08:38,030
Let me stop you there for a second because what you just said is

136
00:08:38,910 --> 00:08:42,590
against the grain of what most contemporary

137
00:08:42,910 --> 00:08:46,670
production companies and at least in Los Angeles, you know, which

138
00:08:46,670 --> 00:08:50,030
is struggling with studios, you know, going bankrupt

139
00:08:50,669 --> 00:08:54,270
and you Know vertical productions being made on people's

140
00:08:54,270 --> 00:08:58,110
hands. And so everybody talks about well you should start your channel on

141
00:08:58,110 --> 00:09:01,870
YouTube and let people notice you. And here you are saying no, I'm going

142
00:09:01,870 --> 00:09:04,910
direct to the old distribution channels

143
00:09:05,470 --> 00:09:09,230
to produce product that going to land in front of people.

144
00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:12,990
Now what fits in the, in the quality standards? What

145
00:09:14,430 --> 00:09:18,070
by example Apple is very tough. You don't get show easy on

146
00:09:18,070 --> 00:09:21,670
Apple TV because they are very tough in the quality standards. Our

147
00:09:21,670 --> 00:09:25,350
shows are there, our long shows and then because we

148
00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:28,190
meet I know what level we need to deliver

149
00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:33,550
to be broadcasted and and additional choice that you,

150
00:09:33,630 --> 00:09:36,590
you choose R for free watching and people

151
00:09:37,310 --> 00:09:41,070
can, can see it on, on YouTube or whatever or you say

152
00:09:41,070 --> 00:09:44,830
of your people have to pay or the licenser has to pay. And people

153
00:09:44,830 --> 00:09:48,670
only pay if the quality is top notch because there are already so much free

154
00:09:48,670 --> 00:09:52,390
content around. That's true. So we, we

155
00:09:52,390 --> 00:09:55,960
have no choice. So if we choose for the pay model what we did

156
00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,920
and that's what we are used to because our movies are also not for free.

157
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,560
You know that millions operations that there's a

158
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,440
world of distribution with a lot of licenses and everyone has to pay. Of

159
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,680
course. Yeah, that's a different way of thinking.

160
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,920
And I think in the world of wine we are on maybe one of the

161
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,360
so not like not so many people that can say that they are

162
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,250
completely independent. I think the, I don't think

163
00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:25,970
the Wine Spectator Spectator is independent in that sense. That

164
00:10:27,730 --> 00:10:31,090
the producers pay a lot of money and then they get eight pages of

165
00:10:31,490 --> 00:10:35,290
attention. You know that's not, that's, that's, that's a

166
00:10:35,290 --> 00:10:39,090
financial thing. I don't know if they like to hear this, but

167
00:10:39,090 --> 00:10:42,890
I, I, I, I know also with influencers they, they, they get

168
00:10:42,890 --> 00:10:46,650
a lot of trips offered and, and, and five star

169
00:10:46,650 --> 00:10:50,410
hotels and first class tickets. We don't do that.

170
00:10:50,890 --> 00:10:54,650
I think that's, that's not unlike being a stewardess or a

171
00:10:54,810 --> 00:10:58,250
flight attendant because the industry is very glamorous as you already

172
00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:02,129
the places we're going to talk some of the places you visited and the families

173
00:11:02,129 --> 00:11:05,970
you've interviewed. But it is a glamorous business. It's a romantic business.

174
00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:09,650
There's lots of perks to it and not a

175
00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:13,210
lot of cash flow. In fact, that's the current problem with the

176
00:11:13,210 --> 00:11:17,050
trade. And I was in Wine Paris, you know, a few weeks

177
00:11:17,050 --> 00:11:20,850
ago and everybody's crying the blues and it's not on

178
00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:23,730
it's worldwide this problem issue.

179
00:11:24,610 --> 00:11:27,410
But at the same time, you know shows like

180
00:11:28,050 --> 00:11:31,690
Drops of God just get all kinds of attention. So it

181
00:11:31,690 --> 00:11:35,330
seems to me there's a. There's a glimmer, there's a point there and your product

182
00:11:35,330 --> 00:11:38,570
is so, you know, properly made that there is

183
00:11:38,570 --> 00:11:42,280
opportunity still, you know, in all facets of the

184
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,960
wine trade, because it is depressed and it's time to

185
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,640
grow. How did you

186
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,120
get then to these preeminent families

187
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,280
who drew and. And some of these other people that you've interviewed.

188
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,680
The most of these famous families are based in Europe. And

189
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,610
culture wise, the wine is more. Let's

190
00:12:07,610 --> 00:12:11,170
say business wise is not Europe, but culture wise is

191
00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:14,890
Europe most important. So we can simply drive everywhere. Just to

192
00:12:14,890 --> 00:12:18,730
start with. So that's just stepped on the car and six hours

193
00:12:18,730 --> 00:12:20,970
later I am. I met place

194
00:12:23,130 --> 00:12:26,770
and no, how that

195
00:12:26,770 --> 00:12:30,570
works is we. I think we had the right intention. That was actually

196
00:12:31,410 --> 00:12:34,770
in the beginning, bit difficult because what you had sour grapes and a lot of

197
00:12:34,770 --> 00:12:37,330
producers felt a bit attacked.

198
00:12:39,330 --> 00:12:42,890
But no, I just said to him this, you know, don't worry, I just want

199
00:12:42,890 --> 00:12:46,530
to. I've just have intention. Not bad intention. I just want

200
00:12:46,530 --> 00:12:48,530
to make a documentary about

201
00:12:49,810 --> 00:12:53,570
Sira and you are the talking head. And I don't know from the

202
00:12:53,570 --> 00:12:57,380
beginning it was quite easy to get them. Yeah. So

203
00:12:57,380 --> 00:13:01,060
if the moment one or two or three want to do it. And I

204
00:13:01,060 --> 00:13:04,300
made a lot of. Of course, I used also our producer

205
00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:06,940
directors, backgrounds from the movies that helped also.

206
00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:12,220
But I think our intention was from the beginning, not

207
00:13:12,220 --> 00:13:15,940
as a journalist. It's not that I wanted to fight with

208
00:13:15,940 --> 00:13:18,460
these people, I just wanted to have their stories.

209
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:22,780
And now, so far, everyone

210
00:13:23,180 --> 00:13:26,940
is happy to work with us. Even difficult times like Anzo

211
00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:28,610
Gary, what is not easy to get.

212
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,920
And Piero Antonori also. Same. Talking about Italians,

213
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,120
do you think. I got a ton of questions. I

214
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,920
want to be efficient with them. But do you think then these

215
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,400
luxury brands, the LVMH brands, the Moet Hennessy

216
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,800
brands, the Folio brands, do you

217
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,600
think that they're feeling the pinch as

218
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,950
well right now? Or do you think that level of

219
00:13:58,510 --> 00:14:02,310
product in the LVMH world is sort of exempt

220
00:14:02,310 --> 00:14:05,950
from some of these market forces? What you've seen

221
00:14:05,950 --> 00:14:09,670
cool. I see the panic everywhere, that's for

222
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:13,470
sure. I've here already three years. The panic also with the luxury brands. Yeah.

223
00:14:14,510 --> 00:14:18,230
We did an Hawaiian Master's class Grand Cru in Champagne two

224
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:22,000
years ago. So we visited there, I

225
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,080
think 20 wineries or so in a short time. Many short videos.

226
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,600
But we had also all the drinks. So you have to talk with everyone.

227
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,840
Yeah, especially now

228
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,640
it's a luxury product. You don't need it. You don't need expensive

229
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,440
champagne. And I think the generations look at it

230
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,120
differently. But at the same time I keep reading and

231
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,320
seeing below, Napa particularly, there's some

232
00:14:47,860 --> 00:14:51,060
pretty big brands being bought up by these luxury brands to

233
00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:55,300
either anticipate the return of the volume, which I expect

234
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:58,980
that the wine is too old of a product and too important to

235
00:14:58,980 --> 00:15:02,340
human existence for it to dry up.

236
00:15:02,660 --> 00:15:06,380
And I don't believe in that doom and gloom position that people

237
00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:10,060
are taking. And maybe it's companies like winemasters

238
00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:13,460
that are going to keep in front of people.

239
00:15:14,650 --> 00:15:16,330
Does it bother you then when you see

240
00:15:17,690 --> 00:15:21,050
substandard quality work being done in this trade

241
00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:25,130
to share the story like you

242
00:15:25,130 --> 00:15:28,410
cringe like I do sometimes Now

243
00:15:28,810 --> 00:15:32,490
I don't get the question. To be honest. I missed the point.

244
00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:35,690
Ask me again. Oh well, it seems like

245
00:15:37,850 --> 00:15:41,640
your product is very polished and you do you set out

246
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,280
to do that because of your background. Plus you saw

247
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,760
a niche in the wine world that needed cinematic

248
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,840
quality wine information. But there's so

249
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,640
much bad. There's so much bad product out there. Does it bother you to see

250
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,120
that? Or you just kind of let rolls off your shoulders and you go on

251
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,600
with what you're doing. The last thing I

252
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,040
suppose when bad products. What do you mean by bad products?

253
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,640
Well, poor cinematography, poor

254
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,420
representation of the. I'm not gonna say poor

255
00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:17,100
acting, but just bad hosts and all the things that go along with

256
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:20,820
this that maybe forced the industry backwards a

257
00:16:20,820 --> 00:16:23,700
couple. Because let me see if I can articulate this better.

258
00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:28,740
The wine is always and always will be suffer from

259
00:16:28,740 --> 00:16:31,940
this. The concept of aristocracy and the

260
00:16:32,580 --> 00:16:36,300
falutin idea of wine. And I see it all the time when

261
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:40,000
I go to a restaurant and there's still somliers that

262
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,160
want to know more than you as the client. And so I'm

263
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,680
wondering if that whole ambiance still is a barrier

264
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,520
for the things you're doing. No, I think I. I'm more.

265
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,440
You have to know before I was in filming it was also a

266
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,200
rock and roll. It was a music

267
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,120
and there was a little time overlap.

268
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:07,590
I was. I thought for my 20 to 25

269
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:10,790
almost constantly but

270
00:17:13,030 --> 00:17:16,310
I. I'm very sensitive for real people. So

271
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:19,990
my, my favorite host at the moment is. Is

272
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:23,630
Jamie Goode and he doesn't like

273
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:27,190
to. He doesn't do his best to be pretty but he's more rock and roll,

274
00:17:27,190 --> 00:17:30,590
plays guitar and he's very honest and the other guy is. Is

275
00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:34,320
Andreas and is also playing guitar and

276
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,960
both. Both have enormous knowledge, travel a

277
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,800
lot. I. We

278
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,240
Try to make it a bit more fun in general. Our

279
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,240
not beside Polish our TV shows are mostly we try to make

280
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,360
it a bit funny but I think you need

281
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,600
that kind of people because there's too many snobism around wine

282
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,440
and that doesn't. That is not nice to watch for the people. It's

283
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,760
much nicer to see people like

284
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,600
Jamie and what we saw. We made this show. It's called the

285
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,400
Science of Wine. It's full of music and jokes and we make a lot of

286
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,080
fun about ourselves. But in the meantime the information is

287
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,440
spot on. There's no one is doing that on that level.

288
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,000
So that's what I also mean by edutainment.

289
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,080
It has both. But I think you need that also more in the wine

290
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,880
business. Too many is to snobist. Snobistis. I know. Is

291
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,560
that good English? Yes. Snobby snobby, snobby. Yeah,

292
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,240
I guess it's not Dutch.

293
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,400
Yeah but I think the world world of wine can. Can be have

294
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,960
a. Have a bit more rock and roll to my opinion. Well that's funny you

295
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,640
said because there's the Cliff Lead Winery in Napa which

296
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,080
named all its vineyards after their favorite rock and roll songs.

297
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,250
No. So I

298
00:18:57,250 --> 00:19:00,610
mean. I mean of course not for marketing point of view but the people that

299
00:19:00,610 --> 00:19:02,490
are involved could be a bit more.

300
00:19:04,330 --> 00:19:08,130
Could be a bit more. Overall I agree with that. Maybe

301
00:19:08,130 --> 00:19:11,850
that's the generational flexibility we have to have in this trade.

302
00:19:12,410 --> 00:19:15,450
And you know my dad got me into this business and I'm very good friends

303
00:19:15,450 --> 00:19:19,130
with people like Bartholomew Broadbent whose father was

304
00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:22,820
one of the great critics, you know still placed for

305
00:19:22,820 --> 00:19:26,380
that type of position. But I went to a dinner recently at

306
00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:29,780
in Beverly Hills, went to a restaurant and. And the

307
00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:33,100
sommelier was exactly the person you're talking about who just

308
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:37,099
builds that barrier and wants you to know that he knows

309
00:19:37,099 --> 00:19:40,940
more than you. Rather than cater to the client and what

310
00:19:41,020 --> 00:19:44,860
they're interested in learning or understanding. And this

311
00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:48,170
is the part I don't think we're ever going to rid ourselves of that type

312
00:19:48,170 --> 00:19:51,890
of a person because that's just the way you know self

313
00:19:51,890 --> 00:19:55,410
education of wine can get. But are you looking

314
00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:59,250
to go into drama as well like this drops

315
00:19:59,250 --> 00:20:03,010
of God episode where you're going to make sort of rom coms

316
00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:06,730
of in the wine trade? Oh no. I

317
00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:09,570
had years ago to do. I had an idea to do something in.

318
00:20:10,770 --> 00:20:14,390
In champagne and someone else stole that idea of me.

319
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:18,190
So that's now in the Dutch television. It's called literally champagne. Yeah,

320
00:20:18,430 --> 00:20:22,190
they stole the whole idea. But we are working on

321
00:20:22,190 --> 00:20:25,630
an English project actually. But that is more related to

322
00:20:27,150 --> 00:20:30,430
our friend. Com. Sour Grapes.

323
00:20:31,470 --> 00:20:35,310
Well, you know what, that's an interesting thought but that's a. That's

324
00:20:35,310 --> 00:20:39,010
a. That's. That's a feature film. Yeah, that's a feature we're working on. We.

325
00:20:39,010 --> 00:20:42,690
We're working on that. On that at the moment. It's a wine related.

326
00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:47,170
No, it's based on the. On the Sour Grapes. Sour Grape story.

327
00:20:47,570 --> 00:20:49,170
Oh. Oh, wow. Interesting.

328
00:20:51,650 --> 00:20:55,010
And in English. It will be in English, not an English movie. So we

329
00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:58,890
all. My. My feature movies are all in Dutch, you know, sometimes a bit

330
00:20:58,890 --> 00:21:02,450
English and I just shoot a trailer last year and

331
00:21:02,450 --> 00:21:06,280
that's partly in English but maintain is. Is Dutch. So

332
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,080
it won't be the first time we do a feature in English. Wow, congratulations.

333
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,800
That's. And now this win related. So

334
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,560
I, I just. Someone said why are you not going to do a. Do a

335
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,720
feature about that? Because the story is very interesting but you have to dive very

336
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,440
deeply to have to get the drama out of it. It's not so

337
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,360
easy. You have always in the. In the documentary.

338
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,680
A movie needs more than only effects. You need to

339
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,520
draw a story but has drama in itself between

340
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,320
people. And that's always the hard thing to find out. Well, it's

341
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,840
an interesting thought because these, these miniseries now which I.

342
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,120
When I fly. We're flying to Ireland next week actually and you know, usually

343
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,880
what I do, I'll just binge on some series and it looks. It

344
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,360
sounds like particular ones about World War II. Masters of the Air,

345
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,670
the Brothers in Arms. They. They tend to be

346
00:22:00,830 --> 00:22:04,470
drama series but there is at the end it tells you about

347
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:07,990
each character because they were based on characters. It

348
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:11,710
seems to me like for instance, maybe you've thought of this already but the

349
00:22:11,710 --> 00:22:15,430
book Wine and War with from the Clad strips. I

350
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:18,990
mean to me there's all kinds of drama and history and

351
00:22:18,990 --> 00:22:22,590
edutainment as you call it, built in the stories

352
00:22:22,590 --> 00:22:26,440
and I wonder why those don't make it to the screen. Why is it a

353
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,640
resistance in the industry to talk about wine? No,

354
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:33,240
no, no. If the story is good then people

355
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,520
will be interested. But yeah,

356
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,920
no, I don't think there is a problem. But you need to have a spectacular

357
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,200
story. It's not. You cannot do every. Not a good story.

358
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,120
You need a really good story and a good title, et cetera.

359
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,720
Yeah. Is it harder now than it was, let's just say five years

360
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,410
ago to. To get financed. To get. Yeah. Read the story. The

361
00:22:56,410 --> 00:22:59,770
business. Mine is in panic, the moving business especially

362
00:22:59,930 --> 00:23:03,690
you're from, from Los Angeles. The panic is

363
00:23:03,690 --> 00:23:07,410
complete. I have a lot of friends there and the. The

364
00:23:07,410 --> 00:23:11,050
work has drastically gone back and down and

365
00:23:11,210 --> 00:23:14,970
they all work for the streamers now. But yeah, there's a kind of

366
00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:18,730
panic in the cinema world because the Hollywood doesn't deliver so much new

367
00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:22,530
content. Content as in the past and

368
00:23:23,650 --> 00:23:27,290
financing in general, people don't go to cinema so much as in the

369
00:23:27,290 --> 00:23:30,370
past. So it's all streamer directly to streamers and

370
00:23:30,610 --> 00:23:34,090
etc. But because there's so many, the. The

371
00:23:34,090 --> 00:23:37,730
budgets are lower, lower. So

372
00:23:38,370 --> 00:23:42,090
first in America the, the middle films were already. For

373
00:23:42,090 --> 00:23:45,850
10 years, they're already gone almost. But

374
00:23:45,850 --> 00:23:49,010
now the high budget movies are also kind of. Well

375
00:23:50,050 --> 00:23:53,770
come in problems. The theater right here, I'm in a little town

376
00:23:53,770 --> 00:23:57,090
outside of Los Angeles about a half hour called Monrovia. And

377
00:23:57,250 --> 00:24:00,450
they built this theater to great fanfare.

378
00:24:01,010 --> 00:24:04,570
You know, it's. I don't know, I think it's eight screens. It's. It was opened

379
00:24:04,570 --> 00:24:07,970
years ago, it was heavily attended, just

380
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:11,650
closed permanently. And then there's a. There's that

381
00:24:11,650 --> 00:24:14,130
famous studio in Hollywood that.

382
00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:19,090
That the owner defaulted on a 1.4 billion dollar loan

383
00:24:19,970 --> 00:24:23,490
and a studio that was. That filmed some of the

384
00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:26,690
greatest, you know, sitcoms from the 60s and 70s

385
00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:30,370
and maybe it'll sell for 300 million. So you can imagine

386
00:24:32,530 --> 00:24:35,890
the demand for a studio like that is just plummeted.

387
00:24:36,930 --> 00:24:39,890
So where do you see that settling, I mean is. I know AI is going

388
00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:43,490
to take some of this burden, you know, some of the editing, some of the

389
00:24:43,490 --> 00:24:46,590
script writing, some of the formatting

390
00:24:47,070 --> 00:24:50,590
of things. Are you using AI now much?

391
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:54,190
And how do you. No, no. If you write scripts, what I

392
00:24:54,190 --> 00:24:57,950
permanently do with my writer, then we use that also

393
00:24:58,110 --> 00:25:01,590
to, to check things and ask the

394
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:05,390
questions how do you think the drama is in or is

395
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:09,030
it exciting enough or whatever that way. But the never writes

396
00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:12,430
itself. You have to come up your own with your own storylines, of course,

397
00:25:12,970 --> 00:25:16,690
but as a tool you can help. It can help what's interesting

398
00:25:16,690 --> 00:25:20,250
now because AI is of course one

399
00:25:20,250 --> 00:25:23,890
big stolen show because they still held everything from Internet,

400
00:25:23,890 --> 00:25:26,330
including songs and movies. So

401
00:25:27,610 --> 00:25:31,210
there are big lawsuits going on between studios and

402
00:25:31,290 --> 00:25:34,650
there's AI people they just want to have money because

403
00:25:34,810 --> 00:25:38,370
they simply stole everything. So AI in my

404
00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:42,050
opinion doesn't exist. I'm technically. You said already in the beginning

405
00:25:42,050 --> 00:25:45,770
I'm a technical guy. It just is a very fast way of

406
00:25:46,090 --> 00:25:49,530
processing data. But it's not the thought like

407
00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:53,210
the system will come up with something with self so

408
00:25:53,370 --> 00:25:56,490
if you write movies and all this kind of stuff, you need to with

409
00:25:56,490 --> 00:26:00,010
creativity. But that said, what

410
00:26:00,010 --> 00:26:02,890
AI Is interesting in the past, if you want to have a

411
00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:07,290
movie, animate animated movie, in the past, you had to

412
00:26:07,290 --> 00:26:10,870
do the whole movie. Now you can only do parts of your,

413
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:14,670
let's say spaceships or whatever. You create that once in. In. In. In

414
00:26:14,670 --> 00:26:16,750
special tool for that called Maya or

415
00:26:18,270 --> 00:26:22,070
tools like that. And then you put that in AI and

416
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:25,910
then you write story. And then you can make a whole movie based

417
00:26:25,910 --> 00:26:29,550
on your own. So you learn AI your own elements,

418
00:26:31,470 --> 00:26:35,070
and then you can make, for much less money, you can make

419
00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:39,120
in original story. At this moment, Hollywood is not

420
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,560
prepared to use AI because of all the lawsuits that are

421
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,760
going on. So they cannot use the regular tools because they're based

422
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,400
on frauds. The whole

423
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,120
AI thing is based on frauds. Plagiarize whatever's on the

424
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:57,920
web. Well, I've used it a lot, playing with it.

425
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,200
I actually created a little.

426
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,770
I had this idea that I would take. And the Psalms never

427
00:27:05,770 --> 00:27:09,530
stepped up. But this, you can imagine the sommeliers of the world

428
00:27:10,170 --> 00:27:13,770
must have heard amazing things, tableside,

429
00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:17,850
anecdotal things, funny things, obnoxious things, annoying things.

430
00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:21,890
And there must be a billion stories from Psalms around

431
00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:24,890
the world that have stood at a table. In fact, when we were in Portugal,

432
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:27,770
I mean, we were in Sicily, we were at the Palermo, we went to a

433
00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:31,460
restaurant. It was the best sommelier service I'd ever

434
00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:34,780
experienced in the world. I've been all over the world, been all the great restaurants,

435
00:27:34,780 --> 00:27:38,340
blah, blah, blah. But this guy from Slovenia,

436
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:41,860
man, he just loved being a song.

437
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:45,700
And so I got, wow, would it be fun to use AI Just to create

438
00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:49,580
these scenarios, tableside scenarios where we can try

439
00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:51,980
and get some humor? So what I found was it was very hard to get

440
00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:55,700
humor for. For AI to edit humor. It

441
00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:59,280
doesn't understand the editing part of getting

442
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,080
humor from an expression or from the timing of the cuts, et cetera.

443
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,920
That's the first problem I ran into. So it didn't understand

444
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,760
the storyline. And it can't be creative. You know, it doesn't

445
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,520
see facial expressions. And I'll give you another example, and you

446
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,840
can chime in on it. I thought, would it be a good idea to use

447
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,680
AI And I'm working on another project for

448
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,640
Armenian stories during the genocide. So why couldn't I

449
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,380
take, let's say, 20 interviews and let. And

450
00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:31,780
take the timestamp and shove it into AI and say, look, weave a story

451
00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:35,460
from this interview to that interview, to the Next interview on the same

452
00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:38,980
subject. Let's just say it's about the

453
00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:43,020
internment camp that they were in and they're talking about

454
00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:46,700
the food they ate, whatever it is, and let AI find the timestamps of the

455
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:50,460
various 10 episodes and create a story with some B roll and

456
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:54,280
just kind of run with it. And what I found was it doesn't understand

457
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,120
the facial expression. It only understands the content, you know, the

458
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,560
transcript. But it doesn't understand when somebody might have rolled their eyes

459
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,240
or made a funny face or, you know,

460
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,880
reacted to something that was said by the previous. By the interviewer. And

461
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,720
so it doesn't have that capability to do that, but

462
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,240
it can rough cut, you know, it can sort of

463
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,840
put things in perspective. So the question

464
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,800
is, does that take away human

465
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,920
work? Does that. Will that? You know, I know friends

466
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,360
that are in the Hollywood business that have lost their jobs.

467
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,360
Their job is no longer needed. Have you seen

468
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,640
that in the Dutch environment? And do you

469
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,360
come back or what? I see it, I just from

470
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,060
creativity point of view, I see it just as a handy tool and for, I

471
00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:50,780
think for software people could be a problem because there

472
00:29:50,780 --> 00:29:54,220
are AI tools that they can program websites and all kinds of

473
00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:59,100
things. But yeah, my

474
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:02,780
example for Dutch movies, we're doing an experiment now to

475
00:30:02,780 --> 00:30:06,540
make a dub with original. The voice of the original actors

476
00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:10,700
and the depth that the mouse is in every

477
00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:13,990
language doing the right thing. So by example,

478
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:17,510
Admiral, our sea battle movie, that is. You can find it.

479
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:21,510
Yeah, we experiment and

480
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:24,150
now actually it's a company quite close to you is doing that.

481
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:30,110
Can we get that done? Because that is for America, Americans, it doesn't

482
00:30:30,110 --> 00:30:33,870
matter because they have the English, but we have. If we can have our Dutch

483
00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:36,870
movies in every language in the right.

484
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,120
And the sync is right. Yeah, and the sync is right.

485
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,600
That's interesting. That's very interesting. That kind of things

486
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,440
are pretty good possible with AI we did the test now with the

487
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,800
trailer and we used it already for Internet and it's on come next week

488
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,200
and it works fine. So,

489
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:57,920
yeah, so

490
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,320
it won't be like those old Japanese movies from the 60s where the voice was

491
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,130
always way off from the. From the lip movement.

492
00:31:09,410 --> 00:31:13,210
Yeah, it's very. It is interesting because if you now have a very good movie

493
00:31:13,210 --> 00:31:16,170
in Spanish or so a lot of people don't want to see that the Spanish,

494
00:31:16,170 --> 00:31:19,730
you can do it in English. That there's also a little bit more competition for

495
00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:23,530
Hollywood. Well, it certainly would open up more markets if you had

496
00:31:23,530 --> 00:31:27,250
a clean, you know, audio sync to separate a

497
00:31:27,250 --> 00:31:30,450
different language. Altogether is it? Dutch is a Dutch film industry.

498
00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:34,520
You know, I obviously familiar with Hollywood. I was supposed to be a

499
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,800
cinema student, by the way. I was accepted to cinema school, but I didn't attend.

500
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,720
I stayed in business school. But you know,

501
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,480
the French industry is very well respected. That's supplemented by the government.

502
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,960
They, they spent a lot of time and energy on the creativity side and the

503
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,720
quality of their, of their industry is. Does the Dutch government

504
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,680
get involved with. With the creative side.

505
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,800
Let's put it that way, that movies and all cases. Dutch is a very small

506
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,150
country, so small language. So in all cases movies are

507
00:32:03,390 --> 00:32:07,190
subsidized by the government. They are. I

508
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:10,990
think 90% is subsidy in Holland. But

509
00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:14,190
the taste of the people that give the subsidy is a bit

510
00:32:15,710 --> 00:32:19,310
left and a bit alternative. That's the problem. So they

511
00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:22,910
don't like broad entertainment. They

512
00:32:22,910 --> 00:32:25,870
don't like. Actually don't like the things that I'm doing.

513
00:32:27,390 --> 00:32:30,650
I do more things for a bigger audience, but

514
00:32:31,370 --> 00:32:35,130
they do more like difficult stories about. And I always say

515
00:32:36,090 --> 00:32:37,930
the way, you know, what is the difference between

516
00:32:39,690 --> 00:32:42,730
artistic movies and movies for cinema?

517
00:32:43,450 --> 00:32:47,290
Cinema movies always is about heroes and art house

518
00:32:47,290 --> 00:32:49,530
movies are always about losers. Think about that.

519
00:32:52,090 --> 00:32:54,970
That's an interesting irony there.

520
00:32:56,890 --> 00:33:00,090
Wow, that's, that's. Well, I just. It's interesting to me because I, I love the

521
00:33:00,090 --> 00:33:03,850
industry and I, I. If people have to go out and have to

522
00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:07,450
pay money and park the car and popcorn etc, they don't want to have this

523
00:33:07,450 --> 00:33:10,810
difficult, heavy, heavy thing. You know, you have to

524
00:33:11,210 --> 00:33:15,050
have to entertain them. Yes. Yeah.

525
00:33:15,530 --> 00:33:19,370
And. And still, you know, still we put always a lot of culture in

526
00:33:19,370 --> 00:33:22,730
our, our story. So because we can never can compete with

527
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:26,390
America so it doesn't make sense to do something the

528
00:33:26,390 --> 00:33:30,030
same. So we do typical things that belong to the Dutch

529
00:33:30,030 --> 00:33:33,310
culture and the Dutch landscape or the Dutch whatever.

530
00:33:33,790 --> 00:33:37,590
But are people still going to cinema, going out like you

531
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:40,790
said, buying popcorn and doing. They say it's

532
00:33:40,790 --> 00:33:44,350
25% less than 10 years ago, but I don't believe it. I think it's 50%

533
00:33:44,350 --> 00:33:46,750
less listening to the numbers. I think

534
00:33:48,110 --> 00:33:51,240
especially all the generation still goes with the youngsters.

535
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,640
That's also a thing. Youngsters are.

536
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,680
How long can they have their attention with something?

537
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,400
Oh, it's. Well, it's very, very short as you know. And, and they're watching

538
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,480
everything vertically on their phones and

539
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,120
movies at least 90 minutes. That's not short. That's hard to

540
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,720
do. Yeah. So I, I'm, I'm. It's a very interesting

541
00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:18,520
question. I'm old enough so for me it doesn't matter anymore. But I'm. I,

542
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,279
I doubt if in 20 years the young people still watch

543
00:34:22,279 --> 00:34:25,839
movies because I don't. Maybe

544
00:34:25,999 --> 00:34:29,759
it changes. But at this moment, at this moment they don't, they don't

545
00:34:29,759 --> 00:34:33,319
do it. They just stay on YouTube and tick

546
00:34:33,319 --> 00:34:37,159
tock. So the question is that's generational. That's not going

547
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,239
to probably come back. We have the same problem in the wine business with Gen

548
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,959
Z's. They say they're not drinking. Millennials, they say they're drinking. I mean, we don't

549
00:34:43,959 --> 00:34:47,659
really know what's happening. But I do know maybe

550
00:34:47,659 --> 00:34:51,099
you've seen this through your travels, through filming

551
00:34:51,339 --> 00:34:54,939
that Eno Tourism, you know, tourism around wines and

552
00:34:54,939 --> 00:34:58,139
wine locations and visiting chateau

553
00:34:59,099 --> 00:35:02,379
is up, is growing. Have you seen that?

554
00:35:03,339 --> 00:35:06,939
You see it everywhere where we are always tourists around. If

555
00:35:06,939 --> 00:35:09,819
we are filming somewhere, there are always, you know, tourists around.

556
00:35:10,539 --> 00:35:14,240
And I wonder. It's interesting because here's my

557
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,800
thought. I had this conversation yesterday with, with the

558
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,440
Concour mondial Bruxelles owner, Mr.

559
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,880
Havo, which is that

560
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,800
maybe with movies it's a little bit different, but it didn't.

561
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,880
My brain is clicking here. The experience of going to a movie theater

562
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,240
is an experience, right? That's the whole thing is you get up, you go, you.

563
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,560
Same with wine, right? Wine is very experiential.

564
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:46,710
The experience to me is not that you got it for $3 on the Internet

565
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:50,550
or that you bought a wine in a pouch or a can. The experience is,

566
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:53,830
well, it's, you know, tourism. I go to a foreign country

567
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:57,790
and we want to go down into Bordeaux or to Burgundy or

568
00:35:57,790 --> 00:36:01,110
wherever we're going to go in Tuscany and visit a chateau, a

569
00:36:01,110 --> 00:36:03,670
villa, taste some wine, have some great food

570
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:08,400
that, that memory of that will never fade.

571
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,680
Right? This is, this is my opportunity to, to

572
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,880
participate in a culture. You would think filming

573
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,560
would be like that too, but I think that saves the

574
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,360
wine business in that experience. That people will never forget

575
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,200
that trip to the Chateau, you know, Cheval Blanc or

576
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,080
whatever they go to and take that home with them.

577
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,080
Yeah, it's. Yeah.

578
00:36:36,910 --> 00:36:40,350
No, you never can compete with the real thing. Although I have to say

579
00:36:40,990 --> 00:36:44,750
that people say the only best. Sometimes you get critics and say, oh, why must

580
00:36:47,070 --> 00:36:50,710
only going your life there is even better. But that's not really true

581
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:54,550
because a normal person doesn't come further than the tasting room, you

582
00:36:54,550 --> 00:36:58,270
know. Yeah, that's true. And we are everywhere. We are

583
00:36:58,270 --> 00:37:01,480
where the action is and where we can do things.

584
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,680
So we show things to

585
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,080
the people that they never Will see if they go to a vineyard,

586
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,760
to the tasting room, it's different at least.

587
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,320
No, you're right. The stuff's really good. What are you seeing?

588
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,040
You've been to South Africa, you've been to Georgia, you've done some various

589
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,120
locations like that. I just went to a tasting recently. It's

590
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,530
called the Raw tasting. It was actually was

591
00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:35,610
concomitant with Wine Paris and

592
00:37:35,770 --> 00:37:38,890
there's a huge Georgian contingency there.

593
00:37:39,850 --> 00:37:43,690
Yeah. Interestingly for me, there's a table of

594
00:37:43,690 --> 00:37:47,170
completely rustic, old school Georgian wines and then there's that

595
00:37:47,170 --> 00:37:50,010
modern version of it. Crisp and light, easy to drink.

596
00:37:51,370 --> 00:37:55,210
Other, other emerging wine regions in the

597
00:37:55,210 --> 00:37:58,710
world that you think you're going to cover that that might be interesting or were

598
00:37:58,710 --> 00:38:02,190
these shows not interested to be. Were they not interesting to people?

599
00:38:03,310 --> 00:38:06,990
No, what you see is in general people like everything.

600
00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:10,950
What these days we don't show so

601
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:14,550
much areas anymore. We just do now this science of wine thing

602
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:18,230
and do a difficult. The problem is if you go to New

603
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:21,870
Zealand. I like to go to New Zealand or Napa, whatever. The

604
00:38:21,870 --> 00:38:25,630
problem is storytelling is difficult because if you go

605
00:38:25,630 --> 00:38:28,950
to the Rhone Valley and you have a lot of history

606
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:33,070
and missions and. Yeah, if you go

607
00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:36,830
to New Zealand. Yeah. Why do we have Sauvignon Blanc? Yeah, just grows here and

608
00:38:36,830 --> 00:38:40,270
we sell a good. But it's not really a story, you know, you

609
00:38:40,270 --> 00:38:43,990
cannot. You cannot show for 50 minutes landscapes. It should be

610
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:47,430
a story. That's right. So what we tried to.

611
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:51,430
With that series, we tried to find like the limit on

612
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:55,520
had a wine and war id. So you need

613
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,080
a bit more in the culture

614
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,760
wise. You can't. You can't fool the people really into

615
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,440
just cinema, cinematic technique to tell the

616
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,239
story. You need the story. Yeah. It always thought so what

617
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:13,560
we did there in Georgia, you had that with the Cradle of Wine and it

618
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,240
was a very story. But afterwards I thought that we

619
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,640
should have done that differently. We should go to that kind of areas and

620
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,640
go more from a journalistic point of view to find stories

621
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,760
that are more from journalistic point of view interesting

622
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,520
and not. Because there is not so much to tell about the wine in New

623
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,840
Zealand that looks like advertisement for producers.

624
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,360
That's something you don't want.

625
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,720
But if I find a story like that, then we always interested. But you

626
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:47,360
need not like, oh, this wine. This winemaker

627
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,440
sits on his hill and he makes fantastic wine. You have to go with him,

628
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,440
make a documentary. Who cares? No one cares.

629
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,920
There's not a particular story behind all these producers.

630
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,640
That's the problem I was in Armenia about a year ago, and

631
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,760
I commissioned a little crew and went out and we shot five

632
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:09,080
sort of video podcasts with some B roll and

633
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,910
stuff. And. And they're out. We just launched them last week. I saw one, yeah.

634
00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:16,470
Oh, you did? And. No, I saw you just watch this. Well,

635
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:19,030
here's the point of that. I wasn't. You know, I wasn't. I didn't want to.

636
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:23,190
I definitely didn't want a comment about the quality of it, but

637
00:40:24,070 --> 00:40:27,910
it looks nice. I'm happy with them, considering

638
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:31,750
what. You know, they're on the fly. The reason I brought it up was

639
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:35,990
the first one was edited here with a Hollywood editor and a

640
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:39,710
friend of mine who was with Anthony Bourdain for two years on Parts

641
00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:43,530
Unknown, and he was telling the stories about, you know, they would go

642
00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:47,250
into, let's say, New Zealand, as you're saying, with an idea of what they

643
00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:50,770
wanted to do, but when they got there, they realized that idea wasn't going to

644
00:40:50,770 --> 00:40:54,330
work, and so they had to, you know, change

645
00:40:54,330 --> 00:40:57,730
their whole entire direction of what the thought process was going to be and how

646
00:40:57,730 --> 00:41:01,490
this show was going to go once they figured out, you know, who these people

647
00:41:01,490 --> 00:41:05,010
were and what the story was. Have you had that experience as well? No, it

648
00:41:05,010 --> 00:41:08,330
happens a lot. This happened the whole. Happens all the time. Yeah.

649
00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:12,250
Yeah. Especially with the show we're doing now with Jamie, that you have a lot

650
00:41:12,250 --> 00:41:16,050
of. You go and you think you have the story, and then it completely

651
00:41:16,050 --> 00:41:19,570
switches to another story. Yeah. So that's a.

652
00:41:19,970 --> 00:41:22,370
Last week, we made a story about tasting. And.

653
00:41:23,490 --> 00:41:26,930
And the conclusion was that the whole

654
00:41:26,930 --> 00:41:30,770
sniffing thing, forget it. It's only for freaks. And you don't, you know,

655
00:41:31,330 --> 00:41:34,570
and the whole. There was a. There's a guy that said Davis page View on

656
00:41:34,570 --> 00:41:37,960
this, and he did for 20 years, and

657
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,440
I worked on this. And he said, also, all these things you can

658
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,960
taste in wine, the cherries and the cherries and the citrus, whatever.

659
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,520
All bullshit. Comes to wine for pairing. Totally not

660
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,080
interesting. It's only about. It is. And I did this for

661
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,880
35 years. I'll tell you a funny story. We were up in Napa not long

662
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,520
ago with some friends, and he said that exact word to me. He goes, I

663
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,170
think what you guys talk about is. And I said, well, wait.

664
00:42:04,170 --> 00:42:08,010
I go. I go. I said, you have two

665
00:42:08,010 --> 00:42:11,730
wines in front of me, two 2014 cabernets in front of you. And you. And

666
00:42:11,730 --> 00:42:15,450
you tasted them from the same wine, Mike. Your same Chateau

667
00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:19,210
or, you know, same villa, whatever, but they taste different. Huh? He goes, yeah,

668
00:42:19,210 --> 00:42:22,250
they do taste different. I said, well, at least you understand that part.

669
00:42:22,810 --> 00:42:26,490
Yeah, the wine geek part. I agree with that completely. In

670
00:42:26,490 --> 00:42:29,850
fact, on the back of my T shirt here, it says, no swirling, no

671
00:42:29,850 --> 00:42:33,410
sniffing. Because that is the part that. That sort of

672
00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:37,210
portrays the aristocracy of wine. But you

673
00:42:37,210 --> 00:42:40,690
have to recognize that there's, you know, the wine has different character

674
00:42:41,490 --> 00:42:45,170
and that. I mean, it's just complete. It's just completely stupid. If you have Pinot

675
00:42:45,170 --> 00:42:48,850
Noir that tastes like Pinot Noir, you just say, oh, there are cherries in a

676
00:42:48,850 --> 00:42:52,570
Pinot Noir. But how would you describe then the cherries? The cherries said, oh, they

677
00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:56,210
taste like. Then you could say it, sherry tastes like Pinot Noir. It's just stupid.

678
00:42:59,150 --> 00:43:02,950
You know, my dad. The Pinot Noir tastes like Pinot Noir. My

679
00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:05,910
dad and I were on a tasting years ago. He passed away a few years

680
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:09,190
ago. But this is. I'm talking about the late 80s, he says, and. And the

681
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:12,910
winemaker said, this tastes like satsuma plums.

682
00:43:13,790 --> 00:43:17,270
And my dad was a chemist by trade, so his palate was

683
00:43:17,270 --> 00:43:21,070
incredible. And he goes, I don't know what a satsuma plum tastes like. How am

684
00:43:21,070 --> 00:43:23,520
I supposed to. How am I supposed to know this?

685
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,760
So you're on your way. You're on the way to do a shoot. Where are

686
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,600
you going? No, no, I'm not at home at the office at the moment.

687
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,760
But you mentioned what's so interesting on this guy because

688
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,200
he just openly said, okay, all the things you learn on the.

689
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,040
On school, on education of the W set. That's all

690
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,080
said. If it comes to food and wine pairing, it's only about. It's. You have

691
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,360
three things in your mouth that you can taste, and that's silky, that is hard,

692
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,200
and that is sour. And depending on how

693
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,400
much harsh it is or how,

694
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,320
then you have to find a wine that has the same characteristics. And he's

695
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,400
demonstrated that for us with

696
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,040
50 kinds of wines and all kinds, in a certain moment, he had a fish.

697
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,320
It was a monk fish. He made on four different

698
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,240
ways. One was with only bottle, one was with only

699
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,050
stock, one was with the Japanese, etc.

700
00:44:21,010 --> 00:44:24,770
Slightly small difference. There were five wines and

701
00:44:24,770 --> 00:44:28,290
five white wines, completely different wines. And

702
00:44:29,010 --> 00:44:30,210
both. All five.

703
00:44:34,610 --> 00:44:37,810
Fitted to one of the dishes. And if you do the test, you do the

704
00:44:37,810 --> 00:44:41,490
test. We were shooting with five people at that moment. You did have.

705
00:44:41,490 --> 00:44:45,280
Everyone could find the right combination. Because he

706
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,960
said, okay, this is how your sonulates would work. Not like, oh, there are cherries

707
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,280
and the Pinot Noir. So I do a cherries you have to see to all

708
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,120
these three things. It's very interesting with all these tests and that plus I didn't

709
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,840
see that coming. I know that guy was

710
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,040
specialized in sensoric things but the brain does. But

711
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,840
taste etc. But didn't see it coming that we were so critical about

712
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,800
the whole tasting thing. It's just swirling and sniffing

713
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,560
and seeing. What is he fault is also because

714
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,200
what he did with Jamie and gave him three wines. Actually they were all three

715
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,440
the same wines that they fooled them with stuff

716
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,920
odors they put in wine. So one that tasted very sweet,

717
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,440
smells very sweet. Oh, that looked like a sweet wine. And the other was like

718
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,240
that. And when you taste them, they're all three the same. Wow.

719
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,880
So who was this? Who was the. That's cool.

720
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:44,510
Oh, I have to look up his name. I forgot his name. It seemed

721
00:45:44,510 --> 00:45:48,230
it. Was he a master of wine? No, he is. He is. He's a

722
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:52,070
crazy D. He has a Michelin star restaurant also. Ah.

723
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:57,350
But he's quite famous about this research. If I tried to find his

724
00:45:57,350 --> 00:46:00,870
name in the meantime. He's quite famous about this. About this

725
00:46:00,950 --> 00:46:04,470
research. And. And more and more people

726
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:08,280
say yeah, it's probably more. He. How

727
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,080
do we. He says it's fine that you want to describe all this odors

728
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,360
in wine, you know, on the palace, but it's hobby you

729
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,400
cannot do. You cannot make conclusions on it. Because he said the

730
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,200
biggest problem is that's also very personal. It's very.

731
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,960
It's very personal. And. And the way he

732
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,120
describes it is not personal because if the wine is very tannic. And

733
00:46:31,770 --> 00:46:33,850
we did a. We did a comparison with

734
00:46:36,090 --> 00:46:39,690
another paper where you make something. I don't know the English word for it.

735
00:46:40,650 --> 00:46:44,330
Sanding paper. Yeah. So you lick on sanding paper

736
00:46:44,330 --> 00:46:47,690
three times and you would say this and this Compare. So this

737
00:46:47,770 --> 00:46:51,530
3Ws are have the same thing. But that's what he tried to

738
00:46:51,530 --> 00:46:55,050
explain also how your. How your mouth feels that

739
00:46:55,690 --> 00:46:58,480
that R string from the 10x.

740
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,560
So yeah. And so you have. Let's say you have 120 and having a

741
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,280
300 and a 500 sanding paper. So you can compare that with

742
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,040
wine. That's very interesting. I didn't see the whole ship

743
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,480
you're coming but I was really impressed. Actually.

744
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,040
No, I. And I agree with it and I was the reason I asked you

745
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,080
the name is because I had a podcast.

746
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:24,880
You have to guide it on a podcast. And he has a really good story

747
00:47:27,530 --> 00:47:30,890
I'd like to hear because I had a guy on who. Who was saying it's

748
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:34,730
called, it's called Peter Cl. Peter Clauster. It's a Dutch

749
00:47:34,730 --> 00:47:38,170
guy and he is. His English is very well, but much better than my

750
00:47:38,170 --> 00:47:41,770
English. Peter Classet. Class. Peter

751
00:47:41,770 --> 00:47:45,530
Clausset. Yeah, I will, I will appreciate Peter Clausset.

752
00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:48,970
Very interesting. Very interesting to hear his, his point of view.

753
00:47:50,010 --> 00:47:53,620
I, I agree with it. I. I've. Of all the

754
00:47:53,620 --> 00:47:56,500
dinners I put on here and all the wine I sold through the club and

755
00:47:56,500 --> 00:48:00,300
all the things we did. I struggled with understanding

756
00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:04,060
wine pairing because it never seemed to work. And I wonder with, with. You

757
00:48:04,060 --> 00:48:07,700
had five different dishes and you had five different wines. Did anybody

758
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:12,340
align. Did anybody say this goes with this one better?

759
00:48:12,660 --> 00:48:16,500
And everybody was on the same page that ever happened. Everyone, everyone agrees

760
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:20,980
it's only based on these three characteristics and the, in the

761
00:48:20,980 --> 00:48:24,460
intensity of these three characteristics. And that should be back in the.

762
00:48:24,620 --> 00:48:28,340
So silky. I don't know how the English word we would say harsh.

763
00:48:28,340 --> 00:48:32,060
Like tannins and, and, and sour.

764
00:48:33,100 --> 00:48:36,460
Yeah, these are the three factors.

765
00:48:36,700 --> 00:48:40,260
Yeah, those are the things your tongue can do. And for the rest, it tastes

766
00:48:40,260 --> 00:48:43,820
like Pinot Noir. And so you snap

767
00:48:44,220 --> 00:48:47,910
a taste like the Syrah. And yeah, he think it's bullshit.

768
00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:51,630
And when I came into the wine, I'm surrounded by all these people. But

769
00:48:51,630 --> 00:48:54,870
this happened in a show where Jamie Good is the host. Jim Good is one

770
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:58,510
of the big influencers in wine and he. And he agreed on

771
00:48:58,510 --> 00:49:02,310
this guy. So he said if this show will be released next year, then

772
00:49:02,310 --> 00:49:05,910
I probably have a lot of criticism from the decanter and from the W

773
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:09,590
set and etc. Because they make him a little bit ashamed. But

774
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:12,230
yeah, if you were sitting there, you would be.

775
00:49:13,930 --> 00:49:17,730
Yeah. We also say. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

776
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:21,250
Do you think that. That the spectator, the decanter, you wine

777
00:49:21,250 --> 00:49:24,730
enthusiast, that they want to defend this

778
00:49:25,370 --> 00:49:29,170
idea that that was disproven during this

779
00:49:29,170 --> 00:49:32,650
tasting. And do you think that there's that much protection

780
00:49:32,810 --> 00:49:33,210
of

781
00:49:36,570 --> 00:49:39,810
the whole. The whole tasting on the palate and what you taste and how you

782
00:49:39,810 --> 00:49:43,600
describe it, that is, that is kind of standardized. But the problem is what

783
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,240
he says. You cannot standardize it because what you think is a

784
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:50,960
cherry is not for other ones, other people to recognizable. So that you have

785
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,040
to train on this to find the same thing. But

786
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,080
he says it is. And I did a lot of educational

787
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,800
shows. We did also level three course completely. And I said to the masters of

788
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,600
wine, somebody said, sorry guys, I like wine,

789
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,280
I have a wine cellar, but I will never. I'm not interested to learn this.

790
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,480
Yeah. And that's very

791
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,320
Strange for a wino maybe, but. No, but people want to just drink what they

792
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,800
like and move on. And they don't necessarily want to hear the pitch. They don't

793
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,520
want to hear the story all the time. I. It's kind of

794
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,920
an interesting thing for me and we have to wrap this up. We're out of

795
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,640
time already. But it's always interesting to me because that, that

796
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,270
intimidation does exist. People

797
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:39,510
when I go to a dinner party are worried, you know, what they're going to

798
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:42,750
pour because Paul's coming. Not that I'm a sufficient auto of anything, but it's just

799
00:50:42,750 --> 00:50:45,350
I'm, you know, in the neighborhood, I'm in the business.

800
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:49,750
And then however, no matter what is poured,

801
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:53,790
the conversation always is around wine. And it's a non

802
00:50:53,790 --> 00:50:57,350
intimidating conversation. It's a fun conversation. Wine does

803
00:50:57,350 --> 00:51:01,070
that. It's just leading into that moment. There's a little bit of

804
00:51:01,070 --> 00:51:04,710
intimidation and fear and. But eventually

805
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:08,070
it becomes a great talking point. And

806
00:51:08,070 --> 00:51:11,910
sometimes a talking point in a dinner conversation. There's nothing else to

807
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:15,590
talk about. Maybe I don't get along with this person, but we can talk

808
00:51:15,590 --> 00:51:19,429
about wine. This kind of works, you know. So what's

809
00:51:19,429 --> 00:51:23,230
your, what's your next show? And we'll wrap this up. What's your next endeavor?

810
00:51:23,230 --> 00:51:26,950
This, the English movie. That's

811
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:30,590
how you'll know which list. Yes. And we are also working on a

812
00:51:30,590 --> 00:51:34,300
new travel show more like what you just described. More

813
00:51:34,300 --> 00:51:38,140
from journalistic point of view, from cultural point of view. Yeah. And not

814
00:51:38,140 --> 00:51:41,700
from wine point of view, but combine these things that is from the wine.

815
00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:45,540
And we're working on, on a new

816
00:51:45,540 --> 00:51:48,020
Sea battle movie in long term. So that's

817
00:51:49,380 --> 00:51:53,180
things. What, what's going on. And for the rest we just record 20 shows a

818
00:51:53,180 --> 00:51:56,580
year for the average for the channel.

819
00:51:56,900 --> 00:52:00,670
25 sometimes. And do we keep on

820
00:52:00,670 --> 00:52:03,510
doing this? How big is your staff?

821
00:52:04,550 --> 00:52:08,270
It's very small. We always shoot. We shoot always with

822
00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:11,990
three people. Yeah, and we do all.

823
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:15,710
We do all. We do all. We have eight cameras and two

824
00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:19,390
drones and we have only three people with all

825
00:52:19,390 --> 00:52:21,590
kinds. Different kinds. Use all

826
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:26,170
lavalier type mics and. Yeah, for

827
00:52:26,170 --> 00:52:29,770
interviews. Yes. Yeah, both. Both. Yeah.

828
00:52:31,450 --> 00:52:35,210
But there's also on cameras. Microphones and microphones are everywhere. But actually

829
00:52:35,450 --> 00:52:39,130
from the sound you'll hear in documentaries and sounds 90 is made in the

830
00:52:39,130 --> 00:52:42,770
studio. It's not recorded live. Yeah. So we have, we have

831
00:52:42,770 --> 00:52:46,490
sound, our sound designer. So we shoot with

832
00:52:46,490 --> 00:52:50,010
three people. Then one of the cameraman and I do the editing and then this

833
00:52:50,010 --> 00:52:53,520
one guy does the sound design and. And the

834
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,000
composer is already the same one for years, but he has a lot of music,

835
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,400
so that's everything. We do that four or five people. Sounds pretty

836
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,160
efficient. Yeah. And we all can do camera, we can all can

837
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,320
do sound, we can all do light. We have a lot of light. A lot

838
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,880
of light. But. Well, yeah, that's the way we do it.

839
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,640
And you can see that, you know, the quality of your work is incredible.

840
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,240
And it's. It's. It's been an honor to have you on the show and hear,

841
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:20,990
hear the stories and thanks for having me. I hope we can do it

842
00:53:20,990 --> 00:53:24,590
again and look forward to seeing more footage and,

843
00:53:25,950 --> 00:53:29,150
you know, the idea of my. The. The four shows I shot in Armenia,

844
00:53:29,470 --> 00:53:33,190
one, the Concord Mundial, the Brook Sale is. Is coming to Armenia

845
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:36,670
in May for the big tasting, which is a huge thing for the industry

846
00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:40,030
because it's a fledging country and a fledging industry,

847
00:53:40,750 --> 00:53:43,230
you know, and part of the conversation, I think, if you listen to the one

848
00:53:43,230 --> 00:53:46,390
with Vahe Kushkarin, who I think is one of the most brilliant winemakers in the

849
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:49,510
world, you know, you're bringing to

850
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:53,830
the world varietals no one's ever heard of from a region

851
00:53:53,830 --> 00:53:57,190
that really no one's ever heard of in a very congested

852
00:53:57,910 --> 00:54:01,110
market that's not. That's not doing well right now. So

853
00:54:01,590 --> 00:54:05,150
all the headwinds exist, but what you

854
00:54:05,150 --> 00:54:08,790
can't quantify is the passion of the people

855
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:12,470
doing it. And I think that's what you try to point out and try to

856
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:16,160
bring, to bring to light. Thank you.

857
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,760
So I'll. I'll see you on the flip side,

858
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,240
as they say in the Hollywood business.

859
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:26,560
Okay, bye. Bye. Cheers.