Breaking Barriers: How Ten Ten Wine Bar Champions Black-Owned Wines

0:00 I don't know what it is about wine, but it really does bring people together. And I think maybe it's because you can have conversations. 10 people can try a glass of wine and really have 10 different things to say about it. And I think that that opens up the door to conversations about other things and opens up the door to different experiences that people can talk about. And I don't think that that's the same with other spirits. Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul K. Hey, welcome to White Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio today in beautiful Southern California, about to have a conversation with Leslie and Lee Jones, founders of Ten Ten Wine Bar in Inglewood, California, my old stomping grounds. Have a listen or look for the release of my new show called the Back Label. No additives, just the stories. The first episode comes out in May, and it's about the wine industry, the backstory of the industry, what's going on in the behind the scenes, why people do this. And we're going to find out now because this is going to be a task at hand.

1:04 Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Excited to be here. Thank you. Thank you. Came all the way down from Inglewood. Yes, indeed. Which has gone through a major metamorphosis as times change. Yes. Definitely looks different from 15 years ago. Yeah. Even two years ago. Yeah. Right. You grew up there? Yes. Yeah, we did. I left there in the 60s, so I don't get the whole Renaissance. But my dad was president of the Chamber of Commerce, Lions Club, all that stuff. Went to Daniel Freeman School. What has happened? Is it SOFI that changed the complexion of Inglewood, or is it just a natural metamorphosis? Is what's going on with. Yeah, I mean, I think naturally the city was. The location of. Inglewood is the perfect location. It's conveniently located to freeways, not far from the beach, really close to the airport. So Inglewood was already a great location. So I think naturally things were going to pop up there anyway. But. But with SOFI Stadium coming and the Intuit Dome coming, I think that it really just accelerated all of that growth in Inglewood. And the revamp of the form. Yeah. And the revamp of the form. Yeah. What happened?

2:14 You know, that's interesting. Cause I learned how to ride a bike at the Forum, so I learned how to drive there. Yeah. Now they don't allow that, but I definitely learned how to drive at the Forum. There was no form. It was actually Hollywood park at the time. Yeah, yeah. But in. My first lemonade stand was right there on Manchester, near Prairie. So it kind of drifted away, and it got a little tougher out there in that neighborhood, and now it's coming back, and I suppose Sofi is part of it. But you're right. I think the location, the natural location is such a great place near the beach. Randy's Donuts is right around the corner. You have anything you need right in Inglewood. So when you guys were growing up, was there a wine culture in your home? No, both of our parents didn't drink. Really. And it wasn't like, you know, wine was forbidden, but they just didn't drink. And so even though we had a lot of gatherings of family and friends, people really just didn't bring wine or liquor to our house because they knew that our parents didn't drink. So even if they drank, we just. We really didn't have liquor. So how did this evolve at high school or something? That's where it started. You're an event planner by trade, right? Yes.

3:32 An attorney by trade. That's right. So you saw law school. Yes. This is a huge departure from that. Yeah, just a little bit. And your sisters, you get along, which is incredible. Yeah. You know, on the most. Most days. Yeah, most days. Any. Anything that is, like, needed for business, we're able to do together. So. Yeah. That's a great combination. It is. So what. I mean, look, retail wine, retail restaurant. A huge difference from event planning and of course, being an attorney. Right. What was his motivation from. Where is the wine culture coming from that you guys adopted? We created it within ourselves. So we went to high school together, college together, all the things. And so that's really. Was what we did decompress over and is. Let's go to dinner. Let's get a glass of wine. Let's get a bottle of wine. Let's like. That's how we kind of bonded in adulthood. And so we said, how can we recreate the moments that we spent building our relationship for others? And that's the evolution of 1010. And with her doing events, it was a space where we can do both. So you can host your event. You can.

4:50 But we also have the restaurant, the retail of it, so it's able to. To really do both of our expertise, hers and events, mine and wine. Not saying you're not an expert in wine, but yeah, we better. Careful. But you're. She's like, really, really, really good with events. So that's why we're like, let's get a space that we can do both. So when you went to law school. Yes, indeed. You were. You wanted to be an attorney or you realized when you went to law school, maybe there's something else. Yeah, no, through law school, I was like, I'm going to be a public defender. This is it for me. And then I still practice. I do trademark law, but once I graduated, passed the bar, started doing family law, criminal law through a private firm, and just realized it's not really for me, and just wanted to pivot and figure out what it is that I will wake up and want to do every day. And that's when I was like, yeah, wine bar. I get a lot of. I have a lot of winemakers that come through here. French, some of the greatest names you've ever heard of. Yeah. And they have the same story. They actually weren't planning on being in the family. And this is the people that have been in the business. Yeah. They went off to law school, they went off to business school.

6:08 They're going to do their own thing. And it called them back. Yeah. And there's something about wine that does that, in my opinion. In fact, you guys mentioned it in one of your. One of the bits. One of the TV spots bit, what you gather over wine. Yeah. And I always try to figure out why that is. Like, what is it about that glass of wine that gathers. Now, you have a neat, unique proposition, which is most of your wines are from African American vineyards. But it's still. There's something unique about this product. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what it is about wine, but it really does bring people together. And I think maybe it's because you can have conversations that, you know, people can try.

6:50 10 people can try a glass of wine and really have 10 different things to say about it. And I think that that opens up the door to conversations about other things and opens up the door to different experiences that people can talk about. And I don't think that that's the same with other spirits. I think, you know, with tequila, even though there's so many different brands, substantially different ideas. Yeah, very, very different. But, you know, when you're drinking tequila, the goal is not to sit down and chill with your friends. The is what notes is on this. The goal is to get wasted. Right. You know, and so I think that wine just opens up that door to have that. Those conversations. I wonder why that is. I mean, I've tried to have winemakers define it. Vineyard men, you know, vineyard guys that tend to the vineyards, understand the soil at at some point, you know, that that root goes down there, grabs these nutrients, grabs the character of what that wine's going to be. Yeah. And must happen there as to why it reaches our soul to. To have these conversations. It's so different than every other beverage. When did that happen to you guys? Like, you're. You're in law school, you're doing events, You're. Those are hectic things. Putting on a wedding and putting on. And all of a sudden you're like, wait a minute.

8:02 Yeah. Yeah. When was that? I think our first trip to Napa. Oh, yeah. We went to Brown Estate and their tasting room. That's back in the day when you used to go on the property before they had their downtown location. And I remember we were in this literally small tasting room, did the tour and had that Zinfandel. I was hooked. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Just the whole experience, we got to like, what? Yeah, yeah. I think. And we had been drinking wine before that. Exactly. Yeah. But we had never gone and experienced a tasting or been to a vineyard or a winery at all. And so I think, you know, visiting Brown and visiting a few other. We went to Cade and, you know, a bunch of other wineries. I think actually seeing the work that people put in to produce the wine and the whole process and like, literally just the science and the creativity and the beauty behind just creating a bottle of wine that people are gonna enjoy at a. At a later time, I think kind of spoke to us, like, individually, but we didn' talk about it until we started to think about opening up 1010. You know, it's interesting. The. The show I was just talking about when we launched here. The first episode comes out tomorrow. It's about Wine Bar in Armenia, which is my heritage, and another show that's going to come out later. The first, like, Cold Open, you know, like, in the cinema world, Cold Open was.

9:33 The guy says it doesn't make sense as a business. Yeah, right. I mean, winemaking and selling wine, as you know, currently in today's industry is pretty tough. Yeah. And the margins are, like, that big. Right. I'm sure the margins at your place are that big that you have to work with. You know, years ago, I can't remember, it was 2005 or something social happened, and I wanted to bring on some African American winemakers onto the show, which started about five years ago. And I went to the African American. The association of African American Vendors website. There were like five at that time. And now there's like 200 or 250 members of the group and there's some thriving winemakers. And I will say at the tasting, I went to Napa a couple years ago was I tasted every wine there and I thought they were great. What is that Renaissance from what, why did that happen? Why did it change so rapidly? Because I tried and only few years later it was rather dramatic. The industry, people reach out. What, what do you think it was? I think it's visibility. I think that people have inspired others to know that you can do it. So when you see, you know, the McBride sisters in Target, when you see Brown Estate on a wine menu at, in Manhattan beach, then I think it starts to inspire you to say, yeah, I can do this. Yes, this is a path. And

11:04 like you said before, it's only five. But I think people have seen like, yeah, this can happen and this is something they thought about, this is something they want to do and it can be done. So let me, you know, give it a try. So that's our stance is let's support as many as we can support. So there's more visibility and, and more people that are inspired. So instead of 250, now we're at 500, now we're at 1,000. Boom, boom, boom. So I think it's visibility. I don't know. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I think that organizations like AAAV have really made an effort to expand the wine community, the black wine community. And I think at some point AAAV only allowed winemakers in and then they decided to expand their membership to wine bar owners and you know, people that were just really interested in uplifting the black wine community. And I think since doing that, it really has helped to expand the black owned businesses in the wine space and expand black people's interests overall in wine. And I think spaces like ours also do that. You know, we're the only one in Inglewood, but there's definitely others. There's offhand in Santa Monica. You know, there's, there's a couple other in like the San Fernando Valley. So there's our what Rialto area. Like there's other ones that are popping up and really their goal is to share the wines that they're drinking at

12:37 home with their community. And I think that that has helped to expand people's interest in the wine space. It's interesting because I just lost my train of thought. Oh, the barriers, right. Social barriers for sure. But it's not just for African Americans. Wine has that aristocracy about it. Right, right. It's what I'm fighting with this new show, the back label, which is. It's really about the people and the passion it takes to do this. And we already discussed the financial side, which is very positive. So those barriers must have been exaggerated for your community to get involved, because it does carry aristocracy with it. I don't know why it does that, except that maybe the psalms of the world, maybe the. The people in the know wanted to keep that gay. Yeah, yeah.

13:31 And I mean, also it's been around for so long, you know, so. And it has been passed down from generation to generation. There's, you know, a lot of wine houses that, you know, this is. The dad started now as the uncle now. So it's just like passing along. And yeah, it has been some gatekeeping. But, you know, I think that more today it's. You're able to get knowledge. You're able to Google this or read this book and things like that. And so I don't think the knowledge was as accessible before as it is now. And so with technology, it. It has allowed for a little bit of the gatekeeping to open up a little bit. You know, let me try to get to this part about your clientele in a second. But those barriers that. That were built are built around, they still exist to a certain extent. They always will. I think wine does that Evidence bio. I went to a recent dinner. It was a port tasting, actually. It. In Beverly Hills. I don't know if you know, but one of the greatest port collections in the world is right here in Glendale. Yeah. Yeah. Guy named Don Schliff used to run wine warehouse. Okay. And he's actually putting up for auction soon.

14:50 Oh, really? He's getting on an age and he's collecting this stuff forever. But anyway, that's beside the point. I went to this tasting. It was at Beverly Hills. I won't call anybody out on this, but the. The Psalm there was exactly the person I'm talking about. Yeah. The one that keeps that barrier up so that you don't know what he's talking about or she's talking about. And then you. You just have to succumb to their knowledge base and not learn anything. And I think this is the part of the industry that. That is keeping people out from trying to do this. It's so excited to hear what's happening at aaaav. Because the wines I tasted, they were really good. Yeah. I thought they were all over the country. Right. There's some from Virginia and some from Long island. Whatever. The only one I was having a little trouble understanding was the method Chaperonois in a can. Oh, yeah. Did you guys taste that? It was good, but I just know how you do it, and I know you pour champagne in your place. Yeah, yeah, that's a hot topic. I don't know. I don't know either. All right, there you go. Just saying.

15:53 I prefer. Mine is 750 milliliters. So how do you deal with that, then? There's one gentleman on one of the TV spots that you guys did where he says, I don't drink much wine, but now that this 1010 is here, I get to come and get to enjoy it. Do you have a conscious effort to keep the aristocracy low and keep the doors open for people to learn and understand? Yeah, I mean, that's literally our goal. We want 1010 to feel as approachable as we possibly can. And so, you know, we both have back. Like, we've done our education and wine. We. Our team has done their education in wine. But at no time do we want people to come in and feel like they can't learn from us, that they can't ask questions.

16:40 And we tell people, if you feel like you don't know how to pronounce something at one restaurant, or if you feel like you have a question when you go to the grocery store, like, come to us and ask us. And so I think also, too, that we kind of present ourselves as, like, you know, just down to earth people. Like, yeah, we have this wine knowledge, but, you know, we don't walk around saying, like, oh, I'm this, this, this, and this, you know, and so it just makes people feel more comfortable with asking questions. And we've also been intentional about it as well. We've hosted free wine education courses where we've literally walked people through the whole wine process. We've hosted different tastings at Free Char at no charge for people, just so that people can feel more comfortable into not only our space, but different spaces and ordering wine and asking more questions about wine. Because, like Lee said, we really did bond in our adulthood over wine. And we just don't want people to be robbed of that opportunity just because they don't feel comfortable or their parents didn't drink wine or, you know, whatever reason causes people not to explore our favorite beverage. Right. Have you found that almost all conversations, whether in the store or off the store, this intrigues me because at the same time that it's in their aristocratic moniker about the. About the wine trade, you probably experience what I do, which is almost every conversation at dinner with friends or. Or

18:13 people you've never met before. When they find out that you understand wine, that you're part of the industry, the conversation always goes there. And it's rather unintimidating at that point. They have legit questions, they want answers, and you're down to earth people. You get that down to earth answer, and that becomes a non. What's the word? I'm looking for a non intimidating environment all of a sudden, which fascinates me all the time. Yeah, I know. I think people. I mean, wine is fun. There's so many things that you can know about wine. And even if you're a master sommelier, there's still things that you can learn. And I think that that's another reason why people love to of gather around wine. Because there isn't one answer. There isn't one direct, like, solution. And so, you know, to be able to be that for people, whether that be when we're in the grocery store. And that's definitely happened to us before, where we've just been at our, like, local vines and someone's like, oh, that's a 1010 girl. Actually, I was trying to pick a bottle of wine. Can you help me?

19:12 I'm like, sure. What do you like? No problem. How can I help? So we'll never say no to that. Like, to be a part of pushing the wine community forward, about pushing the black wine community forward. We see it as a privilege, especially in the times that we're have. In the times that we're in when our industry is suffering a little bit. I think we take great pride in being able to do that for people. How many clients walk in and go, I did not know that there were so many African American winemakers and that there's an association and that you actually exist a lot. Yeah, I would say every day it happens, for sure. Yeah. Sometimes a couple of times a day that light you guys up. Like, it's like, wow, that's so cool. Yeah, it's awesome. I mean, the cool thing about where we're located is we are so close to the Forum. We are so close to Sofi Stadium. We are so close to Intuit Dome. And so many people really just kind of pop in. They're like, we Googled where to go before going to a concert at Sofi, and you guys popped up and you had a reservation available. So we booked. And so then they end up having a whole experience at 10:10 when they thought they were just coming there to get a bite to eat before going over to see, you know who Lady Gaga Yeah, Lady Gaga or Bruno Mars or whoever. And so then we're able to have that conversation with them. What is the Forum doing now? What are they. They do concerts. Yes. Really? Yeah.

20:37 So it's literally. They had Dave Matthews there. I love Dave Matthews. So I went. But they redid it as a concert venue. Yeah. Because it went through some rough times. Right. I mean. Yeah. The Lakers left and it was kind of closed for a while. A church bought it and it was operating as a church and then it closed again and then the owners of Madison Square Garden purchased it, re refurbished it and then. Yeah, now it's a concert venue. It's a great venue. When he was president of the Chamber, he would sit with Kareem, all those guys. And my dad's a basketball square. He's from Egypt, so he doesn't even know anything about it. Chick her and all these guys. That's pretty cool.

21:18 What was it? What was the. The clubhouse at the Farm? Oh, the Form Club. The Form Club, yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because on the other side of this wall is a boxed up neon sign, really cool neon sign that they used in the TV show, whatever the failed Laker TV show was. I forgot the name of it now, but I bought it at an auction. Oh, man. I put it up somewhere. My wife's not happy. That's awesome. She's not into my collect. So do you pour by the glass as well? Yes, we pour by the glass. So when you went to the ABC for all that? Because I've seen many. There's one in man beach uncorked, not allowed to pour glasses.

22:02 Yeah, we were able to with our license to be able to pour by the glass, which is great for us because it allows people to try the wines. You know, when you buy a bottle is. I feel like that can be intimidating because you're nervous, like, is this going to be the right one that I. And even when people do buy the bottle, if we have it open, I'm like, here, give it a try first before, you know, you dive in. Because that is an investment. And we want everybody that comes into our space to be able to enjoy and not sit there and be like, oh, man, I wish I wouldn't have got this, or I should have went with that one. So we're very grateful through the licensing process that we're able to pour body glasses. I saw you have a tasting flights as well. Yeah. For those people that want to try that. Yeah, yeah. A lot of our newcomers will dive towards our flights because it gives them the opportunity to, you know, try several wines without committing to a glass or a bottle yet.

23:02 Or, you know, we change our flights often, so it also gives our regulars an opportunity to try some wines that they maybe haven't had before. So, yeah, it works out. Do you have a corkage fee or you don't allow it? You know, we do have one, but rarely do people bring in their own wine because. Interesting. During this time, we'll talk about that. Now, the. The depression in. In wine sales, which we understand, we all know has all kinds of reasons why that pressure's on sales right now, but. Right. Suffice to say, it's suffering a bit. A lot of restaurants have had to go to starting allowing. Some don't even charge me. Well, maybe because I'm in the trade. Some people don't even charge corkage. But at some point, it feels like that they've loosened that loose because just to get people to come in and bring a bottle of wine. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a large part of our clientele is still being introduced to wine, and so we don't have a ton of people that come in and want to pour their own bottles.

24:05 It happens, but it's not as frequent as probably other spaces, because even though August will make five years that we've been there, there's still a lot of people in our community that don't know that we're there and that just kind of stumble because they saw something on the news or they saw something on social media. Our friend told them to pop in. So they really come in wanting the whole 10, 10 experience, doing a flight or, you know, doing a tasting or something along those lines so that they can try what we have versus bringing in something that they already know they love. So have you felt this depression? I mean, I was in Paris, the wine Paris thing the first time. I. It wasn't difficult to convince my wife to go with me to friends. We have a lot going on.

24:49 Our kids live with us now because of the fires and all this stuff. Oh, gosh. Yeah. So, like, we wanted to get out, but have you felt any of this, or has it been pretty steady? You know, it's. We have, and it's. It's been something that we just have to pivot through. The restaurant side or just the wine side or both? I think more so the restaurant side, like between the fires, the strike, things like that, I think it's just been uncertainty about spending money, but tariffs, all the things. Yeah, exactly. You know, and just really how we navigate that because you can only raise your prices so high, you know, but we've been able to navigate and pivot and still be open, so. Which we're very grateful for because I feel like sometimes you're on Instagram and you see this person is closing. This person is closing all the time. Yeah. You're just like, whoa, that's like, that was a staple of the community. Like, how is this happening? So we seen. But we've also like been able to pivot. So we're very grateful for that. And just like doing. Tasting off sites, doing off site catering, doing off site events. And, and so then the impact of the restaurant is not felt as heavy with us being able to, to market and do more of those type of events that allow to supplement.

26:17 And, and honestly, we have a loyal clientele, so that has really helped us. Like, we literally have regulars where we know on Thursday these people are going to be here, on Friday, these people are going to be here on Sunday, these people are going to be here and say that they bring people out is kind of like a cult following, which we totally support. Yeah. I mean, and it's not even just supporting us inside the restaurant. Like they'll say, oh, you know what, my job is having a Christmas party. I suggested you guys to be the caterers. And so that has really helped our business, like Lee said.

26:57 And we just attribute it to, you know, just having this community that 1010 is kind of built on its own. And we're just grateful that people continue to show up and continue to say our names. I mean, that's. To be flexible today is so critical. You're able to add legs to the stool to keep things going really great. Let's face it, the food margins aren't great. Right. It's a. You have to manage that very closely. And the wine margins have never been great. Right. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you, if you go to like, people ask me all the time, because we're the business, we know what these things cost. Let's just take a liter of Hendrix gin, which you don't pour alcohol, you don't pour distilled spirit. Right. It's like 35 wholesale. Right. That's like a dollar an ounce. Right. And you're buying a martini that's like 3 or 4 ounces, which is a pretty good martini.

27:49 Right. And they've got, you know, three to four bucks in it. And they're selling for 18, 19, sometimes 24y. Yeah, I mean, I understand. Right. Those you can, as a restaurateur you can say. You can point to that. In fact, when I was at USC and I was telling my wife this the other day, I walked into the nine zero, which is on Figueroa, the famed. The famous bar back then. And the owner back then. 1980. 1980, says to me, paul, this is the give. And he points to the burgers that his wife was making. He goes, and that's the take. And he points at the bar because the margins were in the bar. Yeah. Like imagine he's only charging $0.50 for a draft back then. So I don't know what kind of margin to have that again. Yeah. Right. So. So now you guys are in that. In. In the side where both these sides of your business require discreet management. Yeah. At the same time, taking care of your clientele. And I think that's where you've. Sounds like you've established yourself as having this repeat customers.

28:52 When you walked in on the hallway, you saw Kevin o' Leary's picture. He was on the show. And I don't know why. Serendipitously long story, but one of the pieces of advice he gave me when we decided we weren't going to do business together was manage that current customer base. Because the old 80% of your business comes from 20% of your clients. Right. Keep those people in mind because those are the ones that keep the ship afloat. Exactly. As you're going through. Yeah. You know, there's been a huge. I've been doing too much talking right now. The NBA has become quite prolific in wine. Absolutely. Dwyane Wade, there's all kinds of players.

29:36 Yeah. And Chris Paul and an appreciation for wine. Does that affected 10, 10 at all? Oh, I think that. I mean, James Harden, when he played for the Clippers, that was, you know, easy, like, okay, drink his wine. Go see him play. You know, I think that people are interested in the celebrity brands to try them to, you know, kind of, I guess connect with them, for lack of a better word. And so we do a balance of having, you know, the. Those brands, the celebrity brands, things like that. Because a lot of musicians, you know, John Legend, Mary J. Blige, you know. Exactly. So they're. They're in the. In the wine industry as well. So they're still making that. It's called Love, isn't it? Called Love?

30:20 Yeah. Lv. Yeah. Yeah. They still making it. Yeah. Yeah. His rose does really well at Tintin, the sparkling one. So like I said, it's just managing like how we have that celebrity, you know, familiar faces with, you Know, the local people are family owned wines as well, so. But yeah, it is. There's people that come in, they're like, oh, they want to try Tarazi P. Henson's wine. It's like, yeah, well, we have it. Here you are. You know, so that's pretty cool. Early days of celebrity endorsed wines, it's all it was. Right. They got 30 off the top or something in them. Right? Yeah. But there seems to be much more participation with the Dwayne ways of the world.

31:04 They're doing this. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think also even with their celebrity, they understand how hard this business is. And a lot of them have lent their celebrity and lent their following to kind of help push our business along. For example, Dwyane Wade, he had a series or has a series called When We Gather. And it was literally just popups of food and wine throughout different parts of, at first the country, but now it's actually gone globally. And the first one that they did was at 10. 10. Wow. And so congratulations. Yeah, thank you. But it was what you say. Yeah, yeah. Georgia. Yeah, yeah. George was there. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, it got us publicity in a couple different magazines, it got us local press, and there was nothing that him and his team asked for in return. Like, they didn't ask for a portion of a sales.

31:56 None of that. It really was just, how can we help expose your brand because you have supported us in buying our wine. And so I know that other NBA players and also different celebrities have done the same for us. And so we're grateful that they understand it's not just about pushing their brand, but how can they also bring other black people in the wine space up? And we've experienced that. They've done that for us. Yeah. I mean, who doesn't want to sit down and drink wine with Dwayne Wade and have good food? So it's like easy call, but the fact that they understand it. In fact, when I was in Bordeaux, not last, which was a couple years ago, but we were having lunch in a chateau and Mikhail Pietros came down, which is a French basketball player. And it's a long story to get there. So I won't tell you why he showed up, but he showed up and we. He gave me his card and he says, I want to bring NBA players to Bordeaux, France, to show them this lifestyle.

32:56 It took me a while to understand what that meant. What that meant was I spent 13 years in America learning your lifestyle. I'd like to show now that, right, the NBA is interested in wine. Bring them to. To Bordeaux. And I don't know what you. I don't know what the show is about. So I was trying to pursue that for a little while. And, you know, Hollywood's tough. No one, they like the idea, but they're like, no, we're not doing it right. Yeah, I still think it'd be a good idea. Yeah. Like, that would raise. That would put the level of wine appreciation, or at least intrigue at a entry level for people to just say, hey, what's going on? So when people come in, how many different celebrity wines do you think you have there? Probably like maybe 15 labels. How many SKUs total do you guys pour?

33:44 About 60. Really? Wow. Yeah, those distributed through the regular channels, like Wine Warehouse and all these things. Are they direct? It's a mix. It's a mix. I would say about 50. 50. Yeah. Yeah. We have, you know, Southern Glazers is at our door. You know, I know I can say that because I'm not in the business anymore. They're at our door, you know, once or twice a week. But we also have people that come in, hand deliver their cases to us. I mean, Amy. Amy Atwood is an amazing distributor. She. She does really. Yeah, she does great work with International. Like. Like a lot of our South African wines come from there. And just how she's had to manage the tariff, shipping, all the things. And South African wines are very popular at Tintin. Yeah. And. Yeah, and just literally creating dinners and highlighting and doing wine tastings and things like that. But, yeah, 50. 50 of people self distributed, which, you know, it was just like, give us a call. Y' all open right now?

34:50 Yeah. Gonna drop off your wine. Perfect. See you soon. I can tell you that picture right there was 1975, and that was very much the way the wine industry was. Yeah. Dave Stair from Dry Creek, Jim Barrett, who was the neighbor, would deliver their wines. Chateau de Monteleno. That's. That's what happened. Maybe that's what the Renaissance is going to be like. Maybe. Maybe cutting out the middleman and just getting back to why did this in the first place. Right, right. Very true. What surprised you when you bit off a restaurant and a wine bar and the hours and the bureaucratic headwinds and all that. Was there something. I was like, whoa, I didn't expect this. Yeah. I mean, I think pretty much everything.

35:36 Yeah, everything. Literally everything. I. You know, we've been quoted saying this before, and it's not really a joke, but when we sat down and did our initial numbers, we were like, you know, we're born and raised in the area. We're like, if our family, our friends, and a few other people come in, like, we'll make ends meet. Right, Right. We both still had our other careers and jobs, so we weren't looking to 10, 10 to support our lifestyles. It was really just a passion that both of us had, and if we made a little money off of it, great. But that wasn't, like, the original goal. Our goal was, like, what can we do to make sure that we pay our employees, pay our vendors, and keep our lights on? Like, that was literally. There was never an idea to, like, actually make money from the business. And so I think, how do you start a restaurant? As a side hustle? Yeah. I think that we were just so naive. We were very naive. Yeah, we were very naive. Yeah, we were very naive. We didn't speak to a lot of people about it, partially because when we first told someone we were opening a wine bar in Inglewood, they were like, that's a horrible idea. Black people don't drink wine. You know? And so we just were like, well, we're not gonna really tell anybody else. We're just gonna navigate the process between the two of us. You know, maybe some help from our dad, maybe some help from our other sister. But we really didn't think about it as, you know, this is a business that we need to build, you know, a plan to make money or eventually, you know, build it to scale or to sell it. That was honestly never anything that we thought about until

37:10 we were, like, a year into it, and people were like, can you do this? Can you do this? Oh, we'd love for you to do this event. And we actually were making money, and we were like, oh, you know, this is. This. This could be a thing. Yeah. And we're kind of, you know, goofing off on our other responsibilities because we're here so much. So maybe we need to figure out how we can make this profitable so we can live off of this and kind of, you know, excuse our other responsibilities. But, you know, when people ask us now, you know, what's the best advice you can give someone who wants to open up a wine bar? And I say, don't. And then after that, I said, yeah, if you get past that, the second thing I would tell you to do is, you know, educate yourself, but don't get a lot of other people's opinions, because I think that if we really invested in what other people thought, we would have never opened up Tintin.

38:01 One of the comments I made to this woman opened the first wine bar in Yerevana Minas, which the street was a dead street. Nothing was going on. She opened the wine bar, is now very popular. The whole street's popular. And. And she was told exactly the same thing. Yeah. By the distributor saying, nobody in Armenia drinks wine. Yeah. Yerevan, which is the capital, there's no wine drinkers. And she said, yeah, if I had listened to them. Right. We wouldn't have done it. Right. And I just read this quote this morning in a book I was reading. I was a morbid comment, but it's a quote. Only dead fish swim with the current. Right. Everybody else, we got to fight the current. And if you don't fight, fight for something. What's the point? Right, Right.

38:43 Right. And look what it's done for you guys. And even if, Even if it wasn't working at this point, you would have learned so much. Right. For the next venture. Yeah. Because you don't seem like the type that would just let you know, idly go by. Yeah. Right. I don't know. I'm six months pregnant. I've been telling Lee, and I'm ready to retire, so we'll see. I still, I. I have. I. I love it. But no, I mean, we still love what we do. So when you get up every day, what's that motivation like? Can't wait to get there, see who's coming in next. What interesting wine we come through. I think the motivation is one, community, and two, our team. We have a great team and they rely on us. We rely on them. And also just community and our passion and love for. For just the business. So if one of those things are not motivating us, then. Then we'll stop doing it. But usually one of the three. Yeah. Something takes over. Yeah. And creativity. It's. It's a beauty to have your own business because you could. I can wake up and say, hey, we're going to do this today. She might not like the idea, but it's still, we're able to create.

40:05 And I think it's cool to be able to have that space where it's yours. And you can say, all right, we're going to try this or we're going to try that or let's do this. So this will be cool. Like, we just started doing R B bingo. And I was like, I don't think this is going to R bingo. Yes. Everybody's heard of that. Yeah, exactly. So it's just like they play that. We have a DJ come in. He plays Songs you have to, if you know the name of the song, then you cross it off on your spot. And if you get, what is it, four or five in a row, then you get a gift card to 10, 10. So it's just like, well, yeah, why not? A friend of ours said, let's do it. I said, okay, cool, it's working out. But it's just like being able to do creativity like that, it also is a motivating factor for us. You know, I think also being able to support other small businesses, I think that's huge for us. Like Lee said, our friend that asked us to do bingo, he has his own DJing company. You know, we have a florist that comes in each week and does fresh flowers. Of course we have our winemakers that self distribute on their own and we know that their business has been impacted by our business being open. And I sit on the Small Business Commission for Los Angeles County. So small businesses and you know, furthering the mission of small businesses have always been a big deal for me. And so to be able to see other people's business grow because of their interaction with our business and as we're gearing up for things like FIFA World cup and

41:37 the super bowl next year and the Olympics, to be able to have those connections with these businesses and see their businesses grow as our business is growing. I think that that literally is one of my main motivating factors and literally why we decided to the business model that we built 1010 on showcasing 90% of black owned wines, it's because we wanted businesses that weren't necessarily getting exposure in other places around town to have that. And we know there are winemakers that are like, it is a big deal that we're being carried at your spot. So thank you. And so I think that that keeps us going because we want to be able to do that for more people. It takes a village. Definitely does, particularly in today's business environment. Yeah.

42:27 And I always felt we had, we peaked out at 25 employees here in our heyday, which is probably 10 years ago. And I always thought they were family. Yeah, you know, I always took care of them and off, off camera, so to speak. You know, they needed things. We tried to help. One of them used to bring at a difficult time in our life. She had a child and he would come. I fortunately had a man cave in the building where I had video games and stuff so the kid could play all the time. But other than that, you know, it's an important thing. You know, one, one, one Funny story. We're. We're actually out of time here. It's unbelievable. We were in Napa years ago, and I was with a friend. And this is going to go back to maybe some of your clientele that might say something like my buddy did. He. He'll say. He said, I think what you guys say in the wine trade, like, character of a wine, the balance, the, you know, the acid content, all the things that we talk about.

43:22 He goes, I think it's. What are you talking about? He goes. He says, I just think it's just. I don't believe any of that stuff. I said, well, let me ask you a question. He happened to have two 2014 cabernets in front of him at this club Egos we were at. And I said, are those different wines, the same vintage, same winemaker, different plots of land? He goes, yeah, they're different. I said, you're on your way. You may not be able to describe it, but you notice, I think part of that. And this is. Let me see if I can get your thoughts on this. The term that I've been using lately, and it's been used also by other people, which is an honest glass of wine, a real glass of wine that's been made to express a time and a place by somebody that's passion to do that are the kinds of wines that people raise their eyebrows at.

44:14 You may not like them. You know, the character of it. Like, my wife won't drink Syrah to save my life. I can give a chateau to Papa. She still knows it. She like it, but she recognizes that it's properly made and there's something redeeming about it. She doesn't care for the character. You experience that with people that come into the shop. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And what we try to do is, what do you usually drink? Okay, well, let's open you up to this. And I think that that with that, there is an appreciation. Like, I. I don't drink Chardonnay. I have somebody. I don't drink Chardonnay.

44:55 I have a Chardonnay that you actually might like. Yeah. And it's just being able to expose people that it's fun. And I'll tell people all the time, I'm going to do a blind tasting with you. I'm not going to tell you what wine this is. You say you don't drink Chardonnay, I'm telling you Sauvignon Blanc. And you're like, oh, this is delicious. Actually, it's a Chardonnay. So it's just Fun. It's just like. Like, you know, let's expand from. And like you said, is an appreciation for the winemaking. And that's what we're very intentional about our menu of. Actually. Who are we carrying? What is the wine when you drink it? Or you're like, yeah, this is. This is it. So, yeah, I definitely think that happens a lot to where people, like, they only usually drink this or that. But it's like, okay, let's. Let's give this a try and see what you think. I love that. I love that. I don't know. Drink those. Right? I don't drink Cabernet. He's like, all of them. There's a lot. Is. Is.

45:53 Do you guys have the balance between. Life's a party. Like, my. My work is a party, you know, and sort of keep that. It's also business. Yeah, right. Like, you watch Bar rescue, you know, and there's, like, us. They turn it. Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, the cool thing about our space is that on any given day, one of our friends is gonna walk in. It might be a friend that we just saw yesterday, or it might be a friend that we went to elementary school with and we're catching up, but we also know what our mission is. And then we know that we do want to do whatever we can to be around for as long as we can, even if I wanna retire. And so we kind of put that at the forefront. It's crazy.

46:41 I'm supposed to. You want to raise your child? Take an extended break. Yeah. And I think that we know what our goal is, and so we kind of keep that at the forefront. And don't get me wrong, we are definitely like, work hard, play hard kind of people. But we know there's a time and place for everything, and we try to make sure that we're setting an example for our team. If we're, like, crazy and sloppy and all those things, then that kind of opens up the door for our team to do the same. And we want people to have the best experience they can have when they come into our doors. And we can't do that if we're all over the place. And so our focus is really, you know, business number one. And so, you know, having a good time is important. You know, connecting with family and friends, all of those things are really important to us. But it's also important for us that we move our business forward for all the reasons that we've discussed so far up until this point. And so I think that that always Stays in the forefront of our mind with. And it kind of skews how our behavior is. Is such an honor to have you both on the show and. Great.

47:51 Thank you. Thank you. Have to get out there. I've never been to Sofi if it's hard to believe. Right. Oh, wow. Well, we have RAM season tickets and so if you ever want to go to a game, you come with us, come have a glass of wine. Absolutely. See what Phil's putting out these days. Exactly, exactly, exactly. You have to come for sure. We're going to come see you guys. I really, really appreciate the opportunity and the time and I. And it sounds like you've gotten over the hump, you know, that two year hump for startup businesses and you're being creative in sustaining and being flexible with what's going on out there. And I'm going to wrap up this thought. I believe this patch here is from a group back from that wine shop called Les Amie devant, which was 150 chapters in the country. If you had a wine bar, if you had a retail store, you could have a chapter. There's a huge group. Their magazine was the Spectator of its day. You know, bore you with the details, why it failed. But the point of this group was the experiential side of wine. Right.

48:56 Somebody comes into your shop and they have Phil's wine. Yeah. And they didn't know it existed. Every time they join your club, if they join your club, we get to talk about the subscription side. But we'll do that next time, which is my passion. But every time that they open that bottle of Long Vineyards, they're going to remember this moment that they first tasted it at 10:10. Right. And that's the experiential side of wine. It has such memory. Right. When and where and how. If we can bring that back, we can continue to propagate that and make that village bigger wine. Not going away. It's never going to go away.

49:36 It's just manifesting itself self in the future and I think it's behind the experience of what you're doing. So congratulations on. That's really great. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. Cheers to that.