Beyond Luxury: Exploring Bordeaux’s True Essence with Jane Anson

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I often say, if you want to know if a winemaker is going to be

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one that you like, go and look in their wine cellar. If they only

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have their own wine in that cellar, that is a problem. Sit

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back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with

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Paul K. Hey, welcome to

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Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today in beautiful Southern

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California, and we are going to have a conversation with Jane Anson all the way

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out in downtown Bordeaux. Let me just give you a quick introduction

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to who she is, because we've been trying to get together for a long time.

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And for anyone who has taken or has fallen in love with Bordeaux, not just

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the wines, but the mythology, the architecture, the families, the

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ambition, the contradictions. Today's guest has probably shaped

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the way you think about the region. Jane Anson is one of the world's most

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foremost authorities on Bordeaux wine. But what makes her different is

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that she doesn't write about Bordeaux as a luxury product. She writes

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about it as a living organism. A place where weather, economics, history,

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ego. That's a good word. Inheritance and agriculture

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collide in every single vintage. So I'm just going to start

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with that. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. Thank you. And, you know, today

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we've got pretty Southern Californian weather. It is about 32

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degrees centigrade here. Beautiful, beautiful hot day. So that'd be like

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74, 75. We're going high. I think we're in the 80s.

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Whoa. Yeah, it's pretty warm today. We just got back from Ireland two

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days ago and we had very little rain, which was

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bizarre. Right. So I was looking at an Instagram post last

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week because my daughter is studying at Trinity, saying this is the first time

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all year that there was no rain in any part of Ireland.

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So, yeah, you lucked out. Maybe I ran into. Or we went to the

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Trinity Bookstore. You might have done. Yeah. So who knows? It was

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pretty. We were inspired by that. It was actually great walking tour of Dublin

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at the time. You know, there's something here that just jumped

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out of the page before we get started, completely into immerse ourselves in the Bordeaux

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history and lifestyle. But this is an interesting concept

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and I'll admit that Chap GPT came up with it, but

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it was. She doesn't write about Bordeaux as a luxury product.

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She writes about it as a living organism. And luxury

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is an important word here in respect to

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where does Bordeaux lie? Do we pitch Bordeaux as a

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luxury product? I just got an email from a client yesterday. He wants

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the new 2025 Angelouze for his collection.

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$300 a bottle or something in us and I thought,

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is that where Bordeaux needs to be as a product, or are we talking

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about trying to cover all spectrums of marketing wine?

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One of the things that's kind of interesting about Bordeaux as a region is that

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it's. It's big. It's much bigger than I think we realize.

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We kind of think of it often like Napa, because it's a similar

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pitch, like a similar place for a lot of the great wines.

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But there are thousands of different wineries in this region.

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So you can either go to that full, high luxury end of people like

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Angelus or Latour, or, you know, all of those big names, but

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you've also got a lot of smaller estates that are

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sold for a fraction, like $10, $15, $20,

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compared to those big three hundreds. I'm actually just at the moment

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writing up a tasting I did of a winery that's in Santa

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Millian called Sol Beni, which is owned by a guy who

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used to be the football coach for the Japanese world team. He's. He's French,

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but he worked for the Japanese world team. World cup team,

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sorry. For Nigeria, for Qatar. So I'm

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publishing it now because obviously, you guys, you're about to kick off the. The World

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cup in the States, right? So, yeah, so you can. You can get everything in

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Bordeaux. There's. There's always a story to find in this region.

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How many Chateau winemaking, chateaux are there in Bordeaux? Just for

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the reference, I've lived here now for 20 years. And just to give

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you some idea of the seismic shifts that are happening in

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Bordeaux right now, There were probably 8,000

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chateaus when I moved here. So 20 years ago. Today, there are

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maybe 4,000. It's a big, big contraction. But that's

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still a lot compared to many wine regions. No, that's a lot. But

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if you read the books from. My father

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had a huge history of wine books here. He was a very academic guy. And

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if you read them back then, there may have been 8 to 10,000 chateau

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making wine in this heyday, let's say. And I wanted to reference

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that because in Napa, in California, the whole state of

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California, I think there are 4,000 licenses granted, of

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which most of those are probably alternating

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proprietorships where you get to hang your shingle at somebody else's facility.

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And I thought, wow, what a radical difference in

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culture between. Well, we think Napa Valley is like, there's like

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700. I mean, literally, like, maybe less than a thousand Wineries.

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And here we have a district of France with now 4000 wineries.

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What a seismic difference. Yeah. And so a lot of those have, you

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know, families living in them that have lived in them for generations. So

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it is. It's a big shift having so. So, you know, such

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a contraction because it's very much part of the heritage,

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the history and the kind of lifestyle of living here. So

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going back to the luxury thing. I want to. I don't want to finish. I

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want to finish that. I had a gentleman on the show recently. His name is

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Zaya Unan. He's an Iranian immigrant when he was 13.

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Incredible story. And he. He is going

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after a luxury brand. He. He wants to not topple,

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but he wants to compete with lvmh, that kind of level of

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L. And you see in Napa, Chanel just bought

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root estates. Incredible. Purchase one of the greatest pieces of property

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in the Napa Valley. And I'm wondering if there's. If

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we're doubling down on the idea of this luxury lifestyle

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coming back, because clearly the Gen Z's and the rest of the

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population is. Is not into it today.

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Yeah, I think. I think what we're seeing

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is this big polarization of the very

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top end are doubling down on that idea of luxury lifestyle

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and reaching the top 1% and being very much focused

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towards that. And then that kind of leaves a whole opening for people

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who are looking more for experiences, for emotions, for

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real connections. And then you get the smaller wineries, the

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biodynamics, the organics, all that kind of stuff. So in Bordeaux,

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just like in every wine region, I think that's the big split right now.

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Well, was it for you that

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this lifestyle and romanticism of

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Bordeaux now, my father used to say in this. And there he is in the

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picture there. Yeah, you know, the French were pros at

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romanticizing their brands and creating the

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mythology around. Around wine. And clearly

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Bordeaux and Burgundy do that. But what was it for you that

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you got there 20 years ago? Yeah, we intended to stay for a year or

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two. So we moved out here from London, and we'd had our

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first daughter, the one who's now in Ireland studying at Trinity.

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We intended yet to be here for a year or two, and then we got

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here, and I was writing widely about lots of

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different things. And I realized when I stayed in Bordeaux for longer, I

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could find everything I needed in this place. Because you've got history, you've got

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economics, you've got ego. I love that you mentioned that word, ego,

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because Bordeaux is such A clash of so many different things.

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And then you also have the enjoyment of kind of tasting the wine and getting

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to understand the people behind it. So as a writer as well

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as someone interested in wine, there's just so much in this region

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and somehow 20 years have passed very happily and here I still am.

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I can't help but think of like, Steven Sprayer. Yeah, I

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worked with Stephen for a long time because I was with. Yeah, I

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was with decanter for about 18 years, which is the magazine that he

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was very much key to in his last 20, 30

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years of his life. And I left Decanter about five years ago to set up

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my own website. But a lot of my formative tasting

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experiences were with Stephen Spurrier. What a

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legacy. And I mean, that's something

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you put on your resume. I often say I was so lucky

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when I moved here that I knew nothing at all about

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wine because when I started working with Decanter, I was really doing the

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news gig because that was my, you know, I was a journalist, so I did

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a lot of news for them. And then I started tasting with people like Steven

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Spurrier and Michael Broadbent. But I was luckily,

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didn't know to be overawed by that. I just, you know, met them and was

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really. So I could tell how great they were and how much they knew.

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But I wasn't nervous to taste of them. I think had I known

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more, it might have been less. Less easy.

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You know, I just thought of. Had a thought from that conversation. If you look

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past my computer here, which you can't, there's a Hue

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Blind auction paddle. And on the back of the paddle you're meeting the whole family

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here. Now we have. Oh, hi. Her down as well.

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At least we know that this is an AI. This is not

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AI. So

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this paddle is a Hubline auction paddle. My father had written the notes. He bought

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some echem that day. And Michael Broadbent was the.

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In my. My relationship with. With Bartholomew, his son, is

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based on that relationship, based on that history. Even though I don't think

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my. My father and his father necessarily friends, but they certainly were

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acquaintances. And I thought my question was like,

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does that exist today? Are those relationships

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in the wine trade still really important or the.

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The crux of the industry as they were back in the 70s and

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80s? I certainly hope so. I think you know as well

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there is something about wine which is different from other. From

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a lot, a lot of other products that we buy, whether alcohol or not,

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because there is something about wine. And maybe the Size of the bottle and

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the way that we interact with it is we tend to be in social

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situations, but in slow social situations, that is

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something that I think we miss out on now

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in so many different parts of our lives of just having to slow

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down, talk, you know, exchange with the people around us.

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And there's something about wine which I think encourages that slowing down,

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something that we don't get so often in our lives today. So, yes, I think

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it's still a people business. I think relationships are still very, very important.

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Of course, now algorithms come into wine like everything else.

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And we were talking about AI. A lot of. If you're looking on the

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back label of a wine now, a lot of that will be tasting notes that

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are written by AI. As a wine critic, I'm very happy to say that I

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am 100% human wine critic. And if I am

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writing about a wine I've tasted, it really is my opinion. But

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of course, we're seeing those evolutions. But at its heart, wine is

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a people business. I'm glad you said the back label,

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because I just launched a TV show through the Internet,

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through the website of the Civil Net news

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agency in Armenia called the Back Label. And the idea

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behind that concept is that's where the story is. And

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going through the tasting yesterday was a Maison Mark, Maison

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Domain tasting and tasting the Chateau

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Luden gouache. I don't know why I can't pronounce that.

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I would just stick with Ludena. Yeah, Luden. Okay. So she

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and I heard her story and we've talked about it briefly off camera.

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It seems to me that's where the industry needs to go back to.

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Despite all the AI and all the tools we have, which are just tools,

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the whole concept still lies in the story, in the history and the architecture

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you mentioned. Louden Louden is a very interesting

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state just in terms of the last century of

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Bordeaux. So it is located right up in the northern part of the Medoc.

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We're probably talking about an hour from downtown, from where I am

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right now. Back in the 60s and

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70s, it was the heart of a big social life because it was owned by

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an English family who were also merchants, very successful.

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It was really known for its parties. And in those days,

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you could make good money owning a

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small estate up in the northern reaches of the medoc. In the

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2000s, it was bought by a Chinese company. In those years when the Chinese were

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buying a lot of Bordeaux chateaus, the aim was that it would all

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get sold overseas in China. But that didn't happen. And they really

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struggled. And it's now been resold again to this young

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French company who are putting it back onto the idea of it being

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like a center of wine tourism. They've just opened this new

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boat that goes from Luden over to a. A little island in

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the middle of the river where they have a restaurant. So it's a great.

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It's really interesting that you picked that one, because for me, that's a very good

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example of how Bordeaux has changed the different people who live here and

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own the properties. And this push now to have this more authentic

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connection with people. I fell in love with the woman.

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We chatted and chatted to the extent where she was ignoring some other patrons that

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were coming to the table. And the commercial director was

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like, hey, you got to get back to work here. But is

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that. Is that the direction then? Because. And

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maybe it's because social networking and digital marketing and email marketing,

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which is. Which we were prolific at here at Wine of the Month Club originally,

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has changed the level of communication so radically that the stories of

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Bordeaux, maybe they got diluted, maybe they got

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convoluted. Maybe this Chinese invasion, so to speak, you

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know, kind of disrupted the romantic side of the wine trade.

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But it seems to me that storytelling,

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innotourism, and experiential marketing is

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critical now. I think that for all of us in everything,

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that the noise is so great now, we have so much

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digital marketing bombarding us,

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the smart people will realize that it's

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getting back to that idea of human connection is going to be. Is so important

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in wine. And I think maybe we have lost it and Bordeaux

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suffered for that. One thing about the Chinese coming here last year, in fact,

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that is. Or, sorry, the last. Last two decades, it kind of is part of

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the romantic history of Bordeaux, because Bordeaux is a port city. We're right on the

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edge of the Atlantic Ocean. It has been, for the last 2,000

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years, a site that people have come to. So one of the things that was

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kind of fun for me when I moved here was how

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this great history of England, where for 300 years, Bordeaux was like a

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duchy of the English crown. And very, very, very important part of the history.

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You had the Romans here, you had, like, you name it, everybody has moved

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into Bordeaux. And so the Chinese were part of that lovely contin.

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But it didn't work out because maybe the strategy was different. They were buying

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in order to take a lot of the wine overseas or back to

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China, as opposed to, you

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know, making it just. Just another destination of Many. So maybe that was

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the. The difference. But. But certainly the idea of

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Bordeaux as being an outpost of many

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different cultures is something that I've always enjoyed about living here.

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Isn't that the saving grace of the wine trade

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anyway, despite the fact that the

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current generation of marketeers and critics will say it's

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too slow. They're just farmers. They don't know. They don't understand

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marketing. But isn't the history this thousands

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of years of winemaking? There's a winery In Armenia

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that's 6,000 years old, but Bordeaux certainly a couple thousand years. The

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monks in Burgundy, isn't that the saving grace of

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its value to the human

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society? I think I love that. That idea of the human condition.

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I really love that thought, that

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one of the problems that we face now is that we feel so disconnected from

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each other and we don't have those kind of moments of shared communion. And

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maybe wine isn't the only solution, but it is one

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of the solutions. That idea of sitting around, like us having this lovely

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conversation now, this is something that

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we could do more of. I have a really cool book, we

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talked about it briefly, that's coming out in October, which is called Bordeaux

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Chronicle, and it's

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a photography book. And the guy who's taken the

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photographs is called Sam. Sorry, Peter Aaron, and he's the son of Sam

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Aaron, who was the owner of Sherry Lehman for

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years. And his son went to Bordeaux

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in the 1960s. He was commissioned by Alexis Lachine, who was

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obviously a big, big American, Russian, Russian, American, kind of legend in

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the wine industry, to take photographs in the 1960s. He came

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over, he took all these amazing images of different

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estates, but they never. It never turned into a book. So

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the idea was Alexis was going to write a book. That didn't happen. So

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2024, fast forward 55 years. Peter came back to

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Bordeaux and took the same images 55 years later.

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And so this book's coming out in October, and I've done this really lovely

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kind of socioeconomic look at how Bordeaux has changed over the

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last half century. And they're just really cool,

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cool images. And. Yeah, that is, I think, part of

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the fun of this region, how it

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evolves. It looks to the future, but it's always got those 2,000 years of history

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behind it. I forgot his Chateau. Alexis

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Lachine. Yeah. So Lascombe and Prerequisite and pre

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religion. Yep. So a funny story. I don't know if you know this or

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not. Probably do. Well, there's two stories for Alexis, for

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Chateau lescaut. For me, one, I bought a wine club in 1994

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out of New York. It was called the Wine Society of America.

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Long story short, I bought all the remaining assets, and that

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included a couple of palettes of Alexis Lachine's book.

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Interesting. Yes. And I paid 25 cents a copy,

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and I gave them away as to new members, you know, they thought I was

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the World's Fair because it retailed for $35. But

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the other thing that's interesting about the Encyclopedia of French Wines.

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Yes, right. Yeah. I still have a copy somewhere in here.

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The other thing that's interesting, that Chateau Lascombe is. Is there's a

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young. Well, she's 95 now,

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Joanne DePuis, who brought the wines. You may know her. She brought the

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wines to the Judgment of Paris for. For Stephen in her

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l Baggage, including the broken Freemark Abbey

304
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that poured all over the carousel. But

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I didn't know her link to Lascombe. Yeah. So they were at

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Chateau Lascombe, and this is a crazy story. And she has a little book. I'll

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send you a copy. She was sitting between Alexis

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Lachine and Andre Telechev, and the.

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One of the workers from the Chateau Lascombe came to them and said, there's

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a phone call for Mr. Barrett. And Mr. Barrett.

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Jim got up, I would imagine. Yeah. And he didn't. Didn't know

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why. He thought it was the kids. I used to surf with Kevin, this,

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the youngest son, that's not part of the Chateau

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Montelena. Anyway, that's when he was told

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by the phone call, told him that he had won the judgment

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of Paris. And so he came back and told

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Joanne that this happened and Andre Telecheff overheard. He goes, keep

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your mouth shut. We're guests of Mr. Lachine. We're not going to announ.

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We won this. That's crazy. I did not know

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that story. I will send you the book. Oh, that's amazing. That's. Yeah,

321
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it's really crazy story, but. Well, you know, Lasco now is

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owned by Americans again. So that's another good example of the evolution.

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When Lachine and his consortium sold it, it went

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to, I think, Canadians. It went to big financial

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companies, and then it went to a French company, and now it's back in American

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hands. Is a prevailing thought process in

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most Bordelaise that you speak with, at least in the wine trade, is that they're

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just passing through. This idea that the chateau and

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this land is to be curated. And yeah, I think very much

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when you're talking about those, you know, really significant

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names at those big Chateaus, even if you're French, you know that you're

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just a. You're a custodian, you're looking after it for the next generation.

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And that's again, something about wine which is so unusual.

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Whatever you do is inevitably for 25 years later.

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So you, even if it's for your own family, you're doing it for the next

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generation. And isn't that exactly the problem? Not the

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problem. Isn't that exactly. Maybe it is part of the problem.

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Well, it probably is to extent, but it's.

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I'm not part of this doom and gloom

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culture with the wine trade right now, even though things are off a little bit

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and there's consumption issues and generational issues going on. But

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it seems to me that that's why we're in those

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situations. We do have to think 25 years down the road, at least five.

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And how do you predict the marketplace in five years? You have to plant,

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you pull it up, whatever you're doing in the trade, to understand what's going on.

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But it's the core value of the bottle of wine, never

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going to change. What's your objective? What do you want to do as a journalist

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here in Bordeaux? So

349
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I love that question. You know, I so rarely get that question. I have

350
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enjoyed and I feel like I've been very, very lucky that I moved to

351
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Bordeaux in 2003 at a time when

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so many things were actually changing in this region. Like

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it was still the Parker years. So you still had that kind of push

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towards big ripe fruits and

355
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big, big, big push on people doing things differently, which was very important

356
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for this region. But it wasn't long until

357
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you got the influx of China. So you had the 2008, when

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they got rid of all of the taxes in Hong Kong, and that

359
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suddenly put. I had this huge new market coming in and I used to live

360
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in Hong Kong. I spent about three years in Hong Kong at the time of

361
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the handover, when it was going from UK back to China. So

362
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I had a lot of links emotionally with the place. So it was really interesting

363
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for me to kind of be here in a different light

364
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through the prism of wine. And we've

365
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seen, like we said before, we've seen the region contract from

366
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8,000 chateaus down to 4,000 chateaus. We've got the

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struggles now of financial changes

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in the market and the way people are consuming. So I feel like I've had

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a front row seat on all kinds of very, very

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fascinating kind of movements in wine. And I've been

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lucky Enough to be able to write about it. So I've written probably. I think

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I've written five or six books. The first book that I wrote was about how

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the first growths became the first growths. So how did those five chateaus,

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Lafitte, Latour, Mouton, Aubreyon and Margaux get picked out of

375
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those thousands of chateaus? That was a super fun book to write.

376
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And yeah, so I feel like I've been lucky enough to be an

377
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observer and I hope that that's what I get to continue to do.

378
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To be honest about what I'm seeing, to remain at

379
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enough of a remove that I can keep to being a journalist

380
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rather than just, you know, a wine lover. I want to always have

381
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a bit of remove about it. But yeah, I feel like I've been very lucky

382
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to be in such a beautiful city and to see so many changes,

383
00:24:03,910 --> 00:24:06,790
you know, that that triggers a, an angry thought.

384
00:24:07,910 --> 00:24:10,550
How about that? Never heard that before, have you? The.

385
00:24:12,150 --> 00:24:15,670
And that is. I had to read this stuff on LinkedIn and social.

386
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:19,430
And they're very myopic viewpoints of, of

387
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:22,830
this, of all the things in the wine world, I can't tell you how many

388
00:24:22,830 --> 00:24:26,510
people have been on this, this podcast

389
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that thought they were bringing this new idea to the table, putting

390
00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:34,029
wine in a pouch or a box or whatever. And you know, that's just

391
00:24:34,029 --> 00:24:37,830
short term marketing, trying to, trying to capitalize on, on

392
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:42,150
these beverage companies buying up these big brands and taking the

393
00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:45,960
placements. But the part that angers me is that

394
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,680
it's a myopic viewpoint. They're just looking at it very narrowly. They don't

395
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,520
read the history, they don't understand the history. I think it's

396
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,320
very important that you have traveled the world, if you studied it all over

397
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,040
the world, that you've had a viewpoint that encompasses the world

398
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,560
and brings a real position, an

399
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,260
outlook on what you see now that you live in Bordeaux. I think,

400
00:25:09,570 --> 00:25:13,370
I think that's what it's about. And I'm wondering, like when I

401
00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:16,650
interview winemakers, I always have this thought process. Some

402
00:25:16,650 --> 00:25:20,450
winemakers stay at that chateau for 20 years, 30 years, you know, I mean, think

403
00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:23,650
about it. They only get like 40 vintages tops. You know, in their whole career.

404
00:25:23,650 --> 00:25:27,330
That's not very much, right. Versus the winemaker that's,

405
00:25:27,330 --> 00:25:31,050
that's been to South America, that's made wine in Argentina, that's made wine in France,

406
00:25:31,050 --> 00:25:34,770
that came to California and give them the same grapes

407
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:38,830
and you're going to get two different wines completely. So I often say,

408
00:25:38,830 --> 00:25:41,870
if you want to know if a winemaker is going to be one that you

409
00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:45,470
like, go and look in their wine cellar. If they only have

410
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:49,190
their own wine in that cellar, that is a problem. But if they have

411
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:52,870
wine from around the world or from different regions in their country,

412
00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:57,030
then that's a good sign that they care and

413
00:25:57,030 --> 00:26:00,750
that they're attuned to other places, that they're not kind of myopic about how they

414
00:26:00,750 --> 00:26:04,190
make wine. And. Yeah, so that would be definitely one of my

415
00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:07,910
tips. If you get to visit a winery, it's an

416
00:26:07,910 --> 00:26:11,710
interesting thought process. I've never thought of that. Well, you know

417
00:26:11,710 --> 00:26:14,990
what? That's a good point. I had friends that only would buy Napa cabs. They

418
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:18,750
understood that opulent style. And when I took. Many of

419
00:26:18,750 --> 00:26:22,110
them came with me on our trip to Bordeaux and they sat with Veronique

420
00:26:22,110 --> 00:26:25,830
Sanders and they heard the stories and now they get

421
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:29,430
it and actually starting to understand and widen their viewpoint of what

422
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:33,070
wine's about. Yeah. And you're right. What Veronique has done at Obaili is

423
00:26:33,530 --> 00:26:36,930
just so impressive and just shows that

424
00:26:36,930 --> 00:26:40,610
finesse can be just as beautiful as power in wine. It's

425
00:26:40,610 --> 00:26:44,290
really quite. I can't throw her husband under the bus,

426
00:26:44,290 --> 00:26:47,890
you know, we can't. They're having a moment. Gisco

427
00:26:47,890 --> 00:26:51,450
is slightly having a moment. I was telling friends

428
00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:55,290
about Wine Paris because we got a chance to go, and this

429
00:26:55,290 --> 00:26:58,690
is going to be an annual trip for us. Of course, now that I've experienced

430
00:26:58,690 --> 00:27:02,450
it and walking into the Bordeaux tasting section, I was. And I had. I

431
00:27:02,450 --> 00:27:06,290
have some collector clients that I maintained after selling the company. And

432
00:27:06,290 --> 00:27:10,050
it's like this was a dream. I mean, you're walking, you're tasting all

433
00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:13,530
the greatest stuff out of Bordeaux, and it's just a ticket, you know, it's not

434
00:27:13,530 --> 00:27:17,010
even an extra ticket. You just. All day long and you meet the

435
00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:20,330
proprietors and the head winemakers. You're going, this is incredible,

436
00:27:20,730 --> 00:27:24,530
incredible opportunity. You know, you're talking about the classification of

437
00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:28,370
1855, which is, you know, confusing for a lot.

438
00:27:28,450 --> 00:27:32,290
I'd love to read what you wrote about that. I have. Not yet, but

439
00:27:32,610 --> 00:27:36,050
talk about. Let's talk about Eugenie a little bit. Queen.

440
00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:39,890
The. The last queen of France. Yeah. Because

441
00:27:40,050 --> 00:27:43,730
again, before we came on, we were talking a bit about Don and PT Cladstrup,

442
00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:47,530
who wrote the Wonderful Wine and War and just

443
00:27:47,530 --> 00:27:51,130
last year, PT So not Don, but

444
00:27:51,130 --> 00:27:54,900
Petey wrote a book about Empress Eugenie, who was the wife

445
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:58,700
of Napoleon III and Napoleon III, the guy who was basically behind the

446
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:02,460
1855 classification who came up with the idea of doing this

447
00:28:02,460 --> 00:28:06,180
Paris exhibition where they got these wines, you know,

448
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:09,980
to be. To. To kind of make this ranking. So, yeah,

449
00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:13,460
it's a wonderful book, and it talks about Empress Eugenie.

450
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:18,540
You. You get wine in it. But it's also much wider about how what an

451
00:28:18,540 --> 00:28:21,620
icon she was and in fact, how she was really one of the first women

452
00:28:21,620 --> 00:28:25,430
in the world to use fashion as a power play and to kind

453
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:29,190
of signify different things that they wanted politically to

454
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:32,870
achieve that she did through clothes. So Austin really is an

455
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:36,470
amazing woman. She was best friends with Queen Victoria. She lived in

456
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:40,110
England at the end of her life. Really, really cool woman. And

457
00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:44,350
just again, showing us that Don and PT Cladstrup are really

458
00:28:44,350 --> 00:28:48,030
a gift to the wine industry. I love what they choose to write about,

459
00:28:48,670 --> 00:28:52,310
what they did with Wine and War. I'm sure you and me and many

460
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:56,090
people found a way into the human of wine

461
00:28:56,250 --> 00:29:00,010
through reading Wine and War and exactly what happened during World War II

462
00:29:00,250 --> 00:29:03,930
and how these estates kind of protected themselves. You know,

463
00:29:04,650 --> 00:29:08,170
I can't emphasize enough how much I've used the book

464
00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:11,690
and quoted it and the storytelling in that book

465
00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:15,690
that they peeled back, starting with, I was at a dinner party

466
00:29:15,690 --> 00:29:19,410
or something. I was talking to a contractor, and he was showing me

467
00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:22,490
pictures of a wine cellar. Because we always talk about wine, which is part of,

468
00:29:22,890 --> 00:29:26,680
you know, which I love about this industry, is that. Yeah, and we'll talk about

469
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,320
this in a second because we're running around time here. But anyway, he shows me

470
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,320
a picture of the cellar he's building, and there's a stack of Hue wines in

471
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,920
there. I said, do you have any idea the. The. The

472
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,560
importance of this brand of wine that you are

473
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,480
walking over when you're trying to build this cellar? And he goes, no, I don't

474
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,600
understand the story. And I told him the story about Lieutenant, and he just

475
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,390
flabbergasted. The people don't know that maybe that's our job, you know,

476
00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:54,070
maybe that's your job is this type of storytelling. I think it is. I

477
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:57,550
really do. I think it is one of the things

478
00:29:57,630 --> 00:30:01,390
that I just, well, maybe not discovered, but kind of did a

479
00:30:01,390 --> 00:30:05,110
deep dive into last year was the Cockleshell Heroes,

480
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:08,790
which is another World War II story about a group of

481
00:30:08,790 --> 00:30:10,990
five or maybe eight

482
00:30:12,830 --> 00:30:16,630
guys who are with English army coming up to try and blow up the Nazi

483
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:20,400
submarine pension in Bordeaux. Anyway, two of them who

484
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,160
were captured were killed at a chateau in Bordeaux, which you can still visit.

485
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,640
You can still see the bullet holes on the wall. Where they were executed.

486
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,120
And every year this chateau holds a ceremony

487
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,000
to celebrate them. And it's really. There's so many moving stories

488
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,240
out there. And I, you know, I feel really happy to

489
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,680
have the background of being a journalist, to know how to seek them

490
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,520
out and to enjoy kind of sharing them. I wonder if this

491
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,720
generation understands that. When I sit at dinner time,

492
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,040
I have the luxury right now, the honor to have two of my

493
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,520
three daughters living with us because one was displaced by the fires in Southern

494
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,119
California and the other one just moved from Texas. So short

495
00:31:02,119 --> 00:31:05,520
term, seven grandkids, four extra adults in our home.

496
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,640
Wow, that's something. And one of them is an

497
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,200
Anglican priest. So the conversations at dinner have changed dynamically

498
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,920
when we still. They know a little bit about wine as

499
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,500
well. Priests. Yeah. He's a huge unophile as

500
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:23,940
well. Tell me about the book, the

501
00:31:23,940 --> 00:31:27,580
Bordeaux Chronicles. I mean, I was just reading a synopsis here. I actually

502
00:31:27,580 --> 00:31:30,940
put what you sent me into AI just to summarize it, so. Thank you.

503
00:31:31,980 --> 00:31:35,700
Interesting historical or architectural history of it. The fun

504
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:39,300
thing about it is that Peter, when he. So when he was young, he was

505
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:43,020
living above the shop at Sherry Lehman's and came here

506
00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:46,940
when he was in his twenties. But actually his whole career, he was a

507
00:31:46,940 --> 00:31:50,640
photographer, professional photographer of architecture. So he. Most of the

508
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,480
big architects of the 20th century in America, he was working with.

509
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,040
He was shooting the buildings that they'd done. But he's somebody

510
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,680
who's just got so much humanity. He's a

511
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,160
very funny guy, very warm, and you can feel that in his

512
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,960
photographs. Even when he's shooting

513
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,840
buildings, he captures something that's real and human and

514
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,600
open about them. And so I've just loved working with him. It's

515
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,800
been great. We'll be in the States, actually. We're doing two or three weeks of

516
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,580
launch of the book in New York, in D.C. probably

517
00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:27,180
coming over to Napa in October, November. So it's going to be

518
00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:30,940
fun. Wow. I just scheduled something in November

519
00:32:30,940 --> 00:32:34,740
in Napa. Oh, really? Well, let's try and. Let's try and make. Yeah, that'd

520
00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:37,780
be really fun. Yeah, it needs the attention

521
00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:42,380
because, you know, you know, I was talking to Violet Grgish and she said

522
00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:46,180
that their tasting room Traffic is down 30. I made this part of

523
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:49,310
the conversation what's interesting to me and maybe tired of the Bordeaux. We're going to

524
00:32:49,310 --> 00:32:51,550
run out of time here in six minutes. Yeah. But

525
00:32:53,310 --> 00:32:56,750
Bordeaux is now embracing, you know, tourism. It's opening its

526
00:32:56,750 --> 00:33:00,270
tastings rooms. They're trying to, you know, get more

527
00:33:00,430 --> 00:33:03,990
Public, more access. We had an incredible lunch at Cheval Blanc when we were

528
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:07,790
there, and. But Napa's going the other way right

529
00:33:07,790 --> 00:33:11,470
now. Same architect as Obay, Cheval Blanc and Obail. And

530
00:33:11,470 --> 00:33:15,270
as I'm sure you saw. Really? I didn't know that. Dunning Buildings. Yeah.

531
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:19,590
Oh. What they've done by E is incredible for tourism. But the point I

532
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:23,190
was making was that Napa is suffering a different problem. They're going backwards.

533
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:27,310
They're requiring appointments for tasting rooms, and they're

534
00:33:27,310 --> 00:33:31,110
not lowering the rates in the hotel rooms. And the occupancy is like 30%.

535
00:33:32,390 --> 00:33:36,110
Going crazy high in Napa, from what I understand. But I hear the new

536
00:33:36,110 --> 00:33:39,870
Mondavi winery is beautiful. It

537
00:33:39,870 --> 00:33:42,910
was under construction last time I was there. Yeah, it's literally just opened, I think

538
00:33:42,910 --> 00:33:46,460
a week ago, so I haven't seen it yet either, but. So what's next for

539
00:33:46,460 --> 00:33:49,660
you? That we are continuing to journal what you're doing.

540
00:33:50,460 --> 00:33:53,940
You're coming out with this new book. You have other things, tomes you are writing,

541
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:57,620
what's happening. So my main gig nowadays is my site, which is

542
00:33:57,620 --> 00:34:01,380
janeandson.com, and for that, I do lots of tastings, tasting notes. So I am

543
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:05,100
a wine critic as well. I just love to

544
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:08,300
combine that with the storytelling and with kind of getting behind

545
00:34:09,420 --> 00:34:13,260
what's really happening in the region. So I'll be continuing doing that.

546
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,360
And I'm doing a new edition. I did a book called Inside Bordeaux, which is

547
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,040
really the biggest book I've done, which is almost like an encyclopedia of

548
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,720
Bordeaux. But even there, I try to make it like I

549
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:27,560
try. If you're listening to me, I hope when you're reading the book, you can

550
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,400
hear me talking about it. I really try to make it a

551
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,200
human look at Bordeaux. Anyway, so I'm just working on the second edition of

552
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,000
that. But that won't be out till 28, because it's a big book. It would

553
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,459
seem like when you're done with the second edition, that the third edition has got

554
00:34:42,459 --> 00:34:46,019
to be in your brain because it's changing so rapidly. I

555
00:34:46,179 --> 00:34:49,979
have a. Yeah. I'm constantly noting down. Anytime

556
00:34:49,979 --> 00:34:52,539
I hear something new, I'm like, oh, I'd better write that down to remember it

557
00:34:52,539 --> 00:34:56,339
for the next edition. That keeps me busy. Well, you know, speaking of

558
00:34:56,339 --> 00:35:00,179
AI Just briefly. And we'll wrap this up, but I'm not wearing it today.

559
00:35:00,179 --> 00:35:03,659
But I often wear this little thing hangs under my shirt, and it just

560
00:35:03,659 --> 00:35:07,379
captures everything that's. I'm being said now seems rather intrusive.

561
00:35:07,379 --> 00:35:10,930
But But I can tell you that it has saved me in a lot of

562
00:35:10,930 --> 00:35:14,730
situations with not remembering something, because at the end

563
00:35:14,730 --> 00:35:18,250
of the day, you can just look up what, what you did and what commitments

564
00:35:18,250 --> 00:35:21,370
you made, what, you know, dates and times you suggested to people.

565
00:35:22,170 --> 00:35:25,770
It's, you know, it's kind of scary. And my wife was like, why are you

566
00:35:25,770 --> 00:35:29,610
doing that? No, it's. It works. I wish I had worn it in Ireland

567
00:35:29,610 --> 00:35:33,450
because I heard some amazing stories that I didn't get to remember. Well, I'm

568
00:35:33,450 --> 00:35:36,770
going to let you go. It's. They can tell a story. Like the Irish. Yes.

569
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:41,010
Well, I. There is one guy at the oldest wine bar,

570
00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:44,650
supposedly you know a pub in Ireland, at

571
00:35:44,650 --> 00:35:48,330
Sean's place, Incredible conversation. A guy named Timothy.

572
00:35:48,330 --> 00:35:51,810
Apparently he's slated for Netflix special

573
00:35:51,969 --> 00:35:55,730
on the making of whiskey. Coming to Kentucky to capture the

574
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:59,490
American side of it. What a story. What a great story. And I.

575
00:35:59,570 --> 00:36:03,250
I wish you great luck in telling your stories because this is what we need

576
00:36:03,250 --> 00:36:06,950
in our trade to continue the romantic

577
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:10,590
part of our business and not the business side of it. Well, thank you, Paul.

578
00:36:10,590 --> 00:36:14,430
It's so, so nice chatting to you. And hopefully we're going

579
00:36:14,430 --> 00:36:17,910
to meet up in Napa in October or November. Keep me

580
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:21,070
posted. We'll be there. Okay. Thank you. Cheer.