Why Biodynamic Wines Might Actually Taste Better: Smith Haut Lafitte’s Radical Approach; Ludovic Fradin

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When you drink a bottle of Smithite, first of all, you drink

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a wine who has its story. We have the sense of the place. You

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drink a wine with the law of the three F.

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Freshness, finesse, food bearing. Sit

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back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with

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Paul Kay. Hey, welcome to

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Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today in beautiful Southern

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California, gonna have a conversation with Ludovic Frondon from Smith aux

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Lafitte in Bordeaux. An incredible winery. Been there. I don't know

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if you know that or not. Did I say that right? Yeah, Ludovic Von find

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out. It's correct. Okay. He is the right hand man to

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Florence Catiard, who you may have remembered was on the show

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recently at the winery in Napa Valley. Incredible wines. And we're going to

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taste some today, I guess. Yeah. Thank you for bringing those. You're welcome. Anyway, welcome

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to the show. Of course. Glad to have you here. Me too. Thank you.

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So what is this? This whole. What are you here for? A week? Two weeks.

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I'm here for a tour starting today and

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ending on the 27th of July of June. Sorry, that's still

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a trip. Yeah. So two weeks. A good two weeks. And clients

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dinners. What? It's a mix of a lot of things.

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Clients, dinners, wine talk today.

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And that's the most important thing. It's the most important to start with a

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wine talk before to talk about the other one and.

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Yes, for sure. But the. The purpose is to

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promote. To introduce Catia properly in

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California. Visiting as well the winery this weekend

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and then going to Seattle and then going to Texas as well, before

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to coming back to France. Texas is, you know,

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the top. When I was selling a lot of wine, the top five states in

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America that were wine states. It was California, obviously. Texas.

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Yeah. Florida. Florida. Illinois, Michigan. Yeah,

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correct. New York as well. Is

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Cathiard in those places now? Cathiard is in all

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those place except Illinois. So yes, we

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are. So I'm starting to visit all the distributors

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and customers. It's hard work. It's

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a long work. Distribution in us is a key point.

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It's a long process with your free tier system as well. But

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it's a proper way to do it. And you try to touch the

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final customers in a shop or in a

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restaurant. So this distribution

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needs time, is a right

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distribution for wines. And we have to

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show and we have to introduce the wine because every time

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that people taste our wine, they are amazed and they have what we

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call the wow. The wow factor. The wow effect.

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Yes. So what do you think Ms. Macron is going to do

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with Trump's threat this morning of this 100%

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tariff? Did you guys catch that? No. You didn't catch it? No. Yeah, it was

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on the news this morning. I didn't. So eat. So. All right, we'd hate to

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have that. That could destroy a lot of stuff. Okay,

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so let's, let's back up a little bit because there's so

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much history here and. And you recently had a major

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loss at the winery. Monsieur Cathard, Florence's husband,

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it's been a few months that he passed away.

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How has that affected what's going on at the winery and in

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Bordeaux in general? Of course it

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affect all the team personally, because we know

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Daniel for forever and so he was really

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passionate, dedicated to the winery. He was

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not retired, so he was with us every day. He

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enjoyed to meet people who come at the winery and to shake

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their hands and so on. So he was deeply involved.

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But Daniel has

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that skill of passing

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all his responsibility from a long time. He created

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six years ago now Conseil de Surveillance, which is

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a surveill of Council of Surveill. And

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when he told me I'm creating the Conseil of Survey, I'm the president

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of Conseil of Survey, I said, may, what would you do, Daniel? And

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he told me, I will give advice and I will survey.

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Well, it's good work if you can get it. And

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Daniel always said, let it be, let it

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go. And I remember to hear me as

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well, the show must go on. And he did

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everything, which is extremely great for

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Missouri and everything was in the proper hands

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from a long time. I mean, for example, Fabian Tegen, which is

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our commercial technical directors winemaker,

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is at the winery and the family for we celebrate his

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30th vintage this year.

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Wow. So the vineyard manager is. Is with us

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for 15 years. The cellar master

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for over 14 years. Me as well, for 14 years.

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So the team around Florence, of course is there

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and in the same times, of course. The two daughters

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of Florence and Daniel are deeply involved in the winery.

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Mathilde and Alice, we were two youth band,

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Bertrand and Jerome. So Matilde is a

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caudalie branch cosmetic side and

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Alice is the with Jerome. Her husband is a

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hotel. Well, I don't know. Florence, when she was on the

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show is not. She wasn't complaining, but she was sort of suggesting that

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maybe the daughter of the son in law that's involved with the cosmetic

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line. Yeah. Is doing much better

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than the winery. So she was saying, I got in the wrong business. But I'm

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just teasing. She was. It's a. It's a different business.

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You see it everywhere. Yeah, yeah. They have a development which is incredible.

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But the product. Their products are great. And what is very important in this

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family is that the free business develop, develop in the

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same times, on the same way. The hotel is a palace hotel

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is a two star Michelin. They open Loire Valley in 2020.

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They open as well. Source de Voujo in

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Burgundy last February. And next year

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it should be the Alsace one. So that's a great

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development in the same time. And of course,

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Kodali is starting

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Kodali starting in 1995. And today they're sure

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that cosmetic is booming at Kodali. Is incredible

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development all around the world. And so that's great because

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of course, all the image

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advertising with vines that they are using are coming from Smith.

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Okay, what do you think of my eyes? I put some on here. Can you

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tell you did it okay? Yeah. You had a good time. You

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have good protection. That's great. My wife, when we went to Paris, she's like, we

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have to get this, you know. And then we find out it's everywhere. Anyway, their

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formula are great. They're coming from the seed and the.

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And about the vines. So in fact, it's. He

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working well. The products are very good. Let's go back to that for a second.

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Because, yeah, the grape seeds and the extraction and. And

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was founded on this. But. And you said they're sort of parallel with the winery,

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that this business has grew when. When the cathiars.

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Let's go back to that day. They were both skiers. Right. They're both us. I

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mean, the French. French national skiers.

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I don't know if Florence was on the Olympic team, but

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Florence was on the Group B National. Right. And Daniel

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was on the Group A with Jean Claude Keeley. The three gold medal

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winners. Yeah. So it was Don Hill

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Racer and they opened a sporting goods store, I think. Right. And then it

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became a very big chain. Do you. Do you know what

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their thought process was when they got out of retail, out

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of sporting good retail and wanted to be in the wine business? What was that?

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What were they thinking? First of all, I think Daniel and Florence

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was in this booming time

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in the 70s, in the 80s in France, where

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all the economy was very performing, and the supermarket side

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as well. And after

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many years in that type of distribution, I think that Daniel wanted to do

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something else. He told me that

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the supermarket with the name Gentile faced a situation where

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big, big boys are coming, like Carrefour and Walmart

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and so on. And he needs to develop more. And it

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was a time where you have to sell the industry

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to an investor which came bigger, which become casino.

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And I think that he saved

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all his employees. He has a very nice improvement and

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development in this industry. And there is a time where he has to leave.

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And he left and he wanted to do something because he was young.

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He has something like 54, 53. And he

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thought that he was too young. But he remembered that in

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this supermarket and at the starting point, when he was playing

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in the cellar of his grandfather, he was playing above the

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VAT of wines. And so he always wanted

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to enjoy wines. And he told me

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that at the first time he wanted to see Champagne, but

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the price of Champagne house was too high. He went to

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Burgundy, but he told me I did not like the weather in

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winter. And so he arrived with Florence at Miss

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O Lafitte. And he discovered a kind of Eden,

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but in a pity condition. And I think he saw

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in that winery his future life.

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But something that he did not

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forecast at the time. It was that he will spend

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so many effort and money behind that winery.

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No one told him that. He didn't believe. He didn't believe that. He told me,

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when I bought it, I thought it was perfect because the harvest is in

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September, October, and then we make the wine. And then in

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wintertime, we sell the wine on Premier in

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early spring, roughly. So it gives me time to make ski.

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Yeah, part of the problem. No. Yeah. But in fact, not he has to sell

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his wine. And so January, February was turning around

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all around the world to develop sales to promote his

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wine, make, tasting and so on. The general condition of the winery when you

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bought it was good, bad medium. At the beginning,

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the condition of the winery was not in a very good,

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healthy position. Yeah, it was a different strategy from the overrunners

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about much more volume. And so the

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idea of Daniel was to turn the winery into

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organic process. But at that time was not named organic. But he had that

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vision to do something very different in terms of quality,

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in terms of blend, in terms of

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something much greater than what it was. He did that, I think,

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and realize how

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difficult would be and how investment. How would be

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the investment to achieve it. And after 30 years,

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Smithite is one of the raising stars in Bordeaux.

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But thanks to Florence, Daniel and all the team, because all

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the efforts, all the strength, the energy,

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the investment they made to raise that wonderful

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terroir. It takes time. So it's in this pace

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south side of Bordeaux, right across the street from Chateau Bailly.

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Old friend Veronique Sanders Van Beek and her husband,

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we were there. Now we didn't get to go across the street though.

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I had an intern here and she is now graduating from Cornell University

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in enology. And she went across the street and she got a chance to take

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a picture with Danielle and they were so thrilled that they had the opportunity. When

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you said that, he liked to greet people. And

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I think this is where this industry is at right now, correctly, like

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relationship. You got to get out there. Yeah. No, relationship

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welcoming is a part of the industry, which is very important.

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First of all, that area where we are changed his name in

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1987. So move from grave to Pasaclonion is still

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classified from the grave. And so it's one of

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the. Nobody knows that, but it's one of the oldest area of making wine after

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Saint Emilion in Bordeaux Aubrion. Our first growth are dated since

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900 something Smith Lafitte 1365.

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So that area is recognized with this

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hill. That's why we have that name, Lafitte. We have several people

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who have that name in Bozeman. It's got one tea or two T's. We have

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two T. Yeah, the Lafitte 2T. Maybe we have several heels. So that's why we

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have two tables. That's an interesting.

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You've come to the US in a very interesting time

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in the life cycle of wine, particularly in the US where there's

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consolidation of distributors and you're stuck with the big boys. And here you are

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with Duclos, which is the right place to be in

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Bordeaux. The idea of hospitality is changing.

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You have a hotel there, you have a restaurant there.

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Spa. I want to know where the podcast host room is in the hotel.

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You'll show me that in the picture later. But the idea of

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hospitality in Bordeaux is relatively new.

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And then we saw what they did at Chateau Bailly with their new tasting room

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and the new barrel room. It seems to me that's just what we need to

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be doing is one bottle, one taste at a time. Well,

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I think that Daniel at that time when he decided to open a hotel with

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Florence, of course in the Smithite,

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you have to remember the situation

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was totally different. I'm talking about

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1999. And Daniel told me,

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if we have to open the door of the

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chateau to make the tour, the visit to explain what we are

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doing, people who are coming at the winery need to be welcomed

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properly and welcome them properly for me was to open

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and hotel and a restaurant. But at that time he's

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starting with a good hotel, but not, not like it is today. So everything

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has grow and today reach what it is.

236
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And it makes sense today it makes sense to welcome people at

237
00:14:52,210 --> 00:14:55,050
the winery. But 30 years ago

238
00:14:55,770 --> 00:14:59,370
everything was closed. I wonder, I wonder how that happened. And

239
00:14:59,370 --> 00:15:03,220
I suppose consumerism. You know, my business

240
00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:06,900
changed dramatically during COVID and then post Covid

241
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,500
it was really, really plummeting and that. And this was

242
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:13,940
that $20 price range. But I.

243
00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:18,380
I wonder if this change is always is just generational. Look, wine

244
00:15:18,380 --> 00:15:22,180
is over 6,000 years old. We know that in

245
00:15:22,180 --> 00:15:25,700
Bordeaux being the quintessential wine district of the world.

246
00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:31,060
I believe every generation comes around to this

247
00:15:31,060 --> 00:15:34,500
kind of wine, this glass of wine that makes you think a little bit when

248
00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:38,300
you taste it. And I think just the messaging now

249
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:41,820
is how we get the message is different. I think that

250
00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:45,940
everything's starting from the customers and from the market. And I

251
00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:48,460
think that the people drinking wines

252
00:15:50,140 --> 00:15:53,980
they are looking for a sense, they are looking for a history,

253
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:58,060
a story behind the winery. Because all the winery has a

254
00:15:58,060 --> 00:16:01,180
wonderful story. And it's not drinking like

255
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,320
a big brands for drinking wines. It's

256
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,560
drinking something differently. And to know better

257
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,200
what you are drinking, what you are eating.

258
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,280
I'm not a specialist in meat, I'm not a butcher. Yeah. But

259
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,600
I know how to recognize a good piece of meat. That's right. All right, that's

260
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,200
a good point. And I think when I know my butcher

261
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,000
and when I know where I come from that meat,

262
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,040
I have special link with my

263
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,840
butcher and where his supply, where his source is meat. And I think

264
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,280
that today in this world where you find a lot of

265
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,000
food industry coming from everywhere, where you don't have any traceability.

266
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,040
And when you reach an education,

267
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,120
when you want to find something different, when you want to consume

268
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,680
differently with more respect. But in fact you are

269
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,420
sorry for that. You are, you are engaged in your

270
00:16:58,420 --> 00:17:02,060
own life, your own consumption. You want to be a part of it. And

271
00:17:02,060 --> 00:17:05,780
so I think people are looking for something different in terms of style,

272
00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:09,380
in terms of sense. You can explain what they are drinking.

273
00:17:09,940 --> 00:17:12,580
And on top of that we had

274
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:16,500
organic process. Biodynamic process means there is no

275
00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:20,500
fertilizer, no herbicide, no pesticide. In our

276
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:24,180
full biodynamic we are certified. We are the only classified

277
00:17:24,180 --> 00:17:28,020
growth on this area to be fully certified. I didn't know that. Yeah, we

278
00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:31,360
know it's just sustainable and organic, but. Yeah, we are. But the vision of

279
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:33,920
organic to get it,

280
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,680
it's one point, but to hold it is another point. Now, everything

281
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,440
that the winery did under the impulse of

282
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,280
Florence and Daniel was to be ready to take

283
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,000
it and to hold it. Because you don't change a vineyard

284
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,520
like that in two years. No, it takes 20 years

285
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,620
going from the rootstock production, going through

286
00:17:58,340 --> 00:18:00,580
the winemaking, the barrel making. Sorry,

287
00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:05,780
going through all the new plantation that we did,

288
00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:09,580
with different density of plantation, different coming from

289
00:18:09,580 --> 00:18:13,340
our own rootstock, changing a chemical vineyard into

290
00:18:13,340 --> 00:18:17,020
organic. Take times growing our own plants as well, nettle,

291
00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:20,180
ferns, chamomile and so on. And that give another

292
00:18:20,260 --> 00:18:23,770
definition in wines and another precision,

293
00:18:24,730 --> 00:18:27,610
freshness in style as well. More purity, actually.

294
00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:32,450
So let's go for the listeners, let's go on a technical

295
00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:34,490
basis, in order to convert from a

296
00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:38,970
farm that was using chemicals, herbicides, insecticides,

297
00:18:39,930 --> 00:18:41,370
a minimum of three years

298
00:18:43,930 --> 00:18:47,610
to get just start the certification. But that doesn't include

299
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:53,110
how we learn about the grape that's now being grown in this new

300
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:56,870
vineyard. If you change, if you get your certification, if you are not

301
00:18:56,870 --> 00:19:00,710
ready to hold it, you can have a wonderful

302
00:19:00,790 --> 00:19:04,149
weather without any too much disease. It will happen in

303
00:19:04,149 --> 00:19:07,590
2019. And you can face to a year

304
00:19:07,670 --> 00:19:11,510
like 2018 or 2024,

305
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:15,060
for example, where you have a lot of humidity and a lot of fungus, and

306
00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:18,220
if your vine are not adapted to that

307
00:19:18,780 --> 00:19:22,460
by the result, you lost your production. That's a big problem. It's a big problem.

308
00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:26,780
So the question to be organic or not is a good question,

309
00:19:26,780 --> 00:19:30,460
but it's to hold it when you're ready to do it. And

310
00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:34,460
as soon as you move to organic, you see

311
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:38,300
your yield going down by at least 30%

312
00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:42,260
and sometimes 50. You can't live with that. Yeah. You can't just

313
00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:46,020
automatically accept that, but you have to eventually, I guess.

314
00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:49,140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is something that you have to put on the table.

315
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:52,900
Yes, definitely. And then you do you learn

316
00:19:53,540 --> 00:19:57,220
to bring that yield back up, or you live with it because

317
00:19:57,220 --> 00:20:00,580
it's organic, biodynamic, you're just going to have those yields from that point,

318
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:05,140
actually, never. It never went back. So the yield

319
00:20:05,140 --> 00:20:08,350
roughly as an average, is at about to 30

320
00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:11,710
hectolitres per hectare for the red and

321
00:20:12,590 --> 00:20:15,550
25 as an average 25 for

322
00:20:16,190 --> 00:20:19,910
the white. This year, because we are in primer now,

323
00:20:19,910 --> 00:20:23,549
we release our wines. 25 is the lowest, is the

324
00:20:23,549 --> 00:20:27,230
lowest yield. We never produce in white. 18 hectolitres.

325
00:20:27,310 --> 00:20:31,070
Wow. And in red is just a little bit under what we used

326
00:20:31,070 --> 00:20:33,930
to do. So it's 28 instead of 30, 32.

327
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,960
So. So that's. That's. That's another

328
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,320
complication. I have a lot of people that sit in that chair that do a

329
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,280
lot of crazy things. Pouches, cans.

330
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,960
One woman was in, and she's got a company, and she only

331
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,560
bottles 375s. And that was some revolutionary thing. Okay. And

332
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,600
then in almost all cases,

333
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,260
I don't think I put it right. I'm sure packaging and

334
00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:06,460
alcohol content are all important, sort of superficial parts of our

335
00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:10,140
industry. We know that already. And if you want to put it in a pouch,

336
00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:13,900
I don't see what joy somebody gets out of drinking a

337
00:21:13,900 --> 00:21:17,740
wine in a pouch. But let's say it happened. But it's not the

338
00:21:17,740 --> 00:21:21,500
core of what wine is. You know, wine

339
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:24,260
is a story. It's a conduit

340
00:21:25,940 --> 00:21:28,730
to the soul. Look, for example, that label

341
00:21:29,610 --> 00:21:33,330
does have a little bit of evolution. Yes. So that's the 20, 23.

342
00:21:33,330 --> 00:21:36,850
So we. It was a special year at Smithite because we welcomed King

343
00:21:36,850 --> 00:21:40,690
Charles. So we put a little stamp on it. I think

344
00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:43,450
I remember that King Charles was at the winery. He was

345
00:21:44,010 --> 00:21:47,370
22nd, September 22nd, 23.

346
00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:51,210
Wow. I remember that day all my life. Was he a skier too? Is that

347
00:21:51,210 --> 00:21:54,810
why he came to see? No, he came. He came because his primary purpose

348
00:21:55,210 --> 00:21:58,350
for a European trip was CO2.

349
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:02,940
And since we are certified organic and we are an expert in the

350
00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:06,180
CO2 release as well, because we catch the CO2 that we produce

351
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,260
and we transform it into baking soda. So we are totally neutral in terms

352
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:14,100
of CO2 release. It was a primary tour

353
00:22:14,419 --> 00:22:17,860
as well. I wanted to see as well, the cooperage. So

354
00:22:17,940 --> 00:22:21,660
that's why we do that little stamp. But when you

355
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:25,220
see a bottle of Smithelafit, first of all, you see the coat

356
00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:28,300
arms. These court arms does exist since

357
00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:32,100
1365. Wow. So that's an advertising. It's a little bit of history. It's a long

358
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,820
advertising. Who means that the

359
00:22:35,820 --> 00:22:39,660
colors, the blue colors and the lily flowers here at that

360
00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:43,060
time was the flowers of the king and

361
00:22:43,860 --> 00:22:47,460
the color of the king. George Smith, which is a Scottish

362
00:22:47,540 --> 00:22:51,300
who bought Smithite, he acquires misaelafit in

363
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:55,120
1850, had this

364
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:58,680
quarter of moon in Bordeaux. We have a river

365
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,720
which is named Garonne, and that Garon does a kind

366
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,480
of quarter of moon inside Bordeaux city. And he

367
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,320
was a merchant user. He has a free vessel. And

368
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,840
in fact, he used the Garon was his highway,

369
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,520
actually direct straight to London. He did

370
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,280
trade between England and France. He bought wines and he had it. And he had

371
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,890
this sign which is named Belle, who means

372
00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:28,450
that he has three kids. So you have

373
00:23:28,450 --> 00:23:31,890
signification in the courthouse. So, in fact, when you drink a bottle of

374
00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:35,650
smithite, first of all, you drink a wine who

375
00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:39,490
have his story. You drink a wines which is. We have the

376
00:23:39,490 --> 00:23:43,290
sense of the place. You drink a wine with

377
00:23:43,690 --> 00:23:47,530
the law of the 3F. I'm sure you never heard about the law of

378
00:23:47,530 --> 00:23:51,000
the three F. The laws of the three Fs. No, no.

379
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,680
Freshness, finesse, food bearing. Oh,

380
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,360
that's the law we want to reach first time. Of course, I invented.

381
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,240
I'll have to quote you on that. I'll make sure you get credit for that.

382
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:07,560
Well, I think it's interesting because

383
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,040
being at Wine Paris and talking to the Bordelaise and talking to the

384
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,640
Tuscans and everybody sort of suffering through this period of.

385
00:24:16,550 --> 00:24:18,550
Of social pressure.

386
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:23,990
There's a low elk movement. We know that. You know, pre prohibition

387
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:27,670
type stuff. There's packaging issues. There's

388
00:24:28,150 --> 00:24:31,590
low elk stuff, there's non alk.

389
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:36,110
I mean, seriously, have you ever tasted these things? Why would

390
00:24:36,110 --> 00:24:39,830
you drink them not. It's not wine, it's fruit juice. Oh, yeah. But, you

391
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:43,490
know, and I had the pleasure once a woman brought in a Pinot Noir. She.

392
00:24:43,490 --> 00:24:47,330
It was from California, Monterey, beautiful district, Filipino. And

393
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:51,170
I got to taste the regular still wine. And it's non

394
00:24:51,170 --> 00:24:54,410
al counterpart from the same grapes. And it was undrinkable. And I don't understand the

395
00:24:54,410 --> 00:24:57,810
value. But we won't get into that right now. It's not important what. What I

396
00:24:57,810 --> 00:25:01,530
want to get to is how we. How are we getting the.

397
00:25:02,410 --> 00:25:05,690
Do we have to. Did we go backwards a little bit in. In the marketing

398
00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:09,330
of wine because of a lot of people say, well, we got

399
00:25:09,330 --> 00:25:12,730
snooty about it, we got intimidated about it. We, you know, we. We rested on

400
00:25:12,730 --> 00:25:16,550
our laurels and we. We have to drink the wine or

401
00:25:16,550 --> 00:25:20,230
just the natural cycle of. Of generations

402
00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:25,110
learning a little bit later, later, I think about what it is. I think we

403
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:28,950
are in the inter. Intergeneration.

404
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:32,630
Yes. Gap, right. Where we have customers who

405
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:36,710
love Bordeaux, collect Bordeaux. I thank them for that from a long time.

406
00:25:37,270 --> 00:25:40,830
And maybe their kids now wishing maybe 30

407
00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:44,660
years, 35 years are not yet really are still learning.

408
00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:48,940
And they are not understanding that complication of wine

409
00:25:48,940 --> 00:25:52,500
world from every region, different grapes,

410
00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:56,180
different profile of wines. And

411
00:25:56,260 --> 00:25:59,540
so in. In France, you have all that different

412
00:25:59,700 --> 00:26:03,180
appellation per region who make maybe more

413
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:07,020
complicated. I remember when I started, when I

414
00:26:07,020 --> 00:26:10,800
started in US it was in 90 first trip I

415
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,520
did was in 1997 or something like that. And there is

416
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,000
a booming Brand which was Australian wine,

417
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,840
Yellow Tail. Yeah, you remember that? Oh yeah. A

418
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,280
massive, huge still floor stacked everywhere. Yeah, yeah.

419
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,880
8.99. And people in fact was

420
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,600
attracted by the price and was something extremely easy, a

421
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,160
kangaroo, you know. This come from Australia. It's a wine from Australia

422
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,370
basically. And Australia was hot then. It's a salt. Yeah.

423
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,960
In France you have some easy brands like

424
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,640
that. I'm thinking about La J Ferme for example, which

425
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,440
is easy going wines. It's been around for a long time. It's been around

426
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,800
for a long time as well. I think they did a good sales.

427
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,880
You have Gypet Chaunet as well, which is a big brand as well.

428
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,720
Maybe the first brands in France, I think. But when you're going to

429
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,040
finest wines,

430
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,880
You need to get a skill of that place. You need to understand what you

431
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,720
are drinking, what you are tasting. And it's more a taste than a drink.

432
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,760
And in fact it's historic histoire,

433
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,080
history behind the wines, winemaking process as well.

434
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,240
And I mean

435
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,460
you have something very special. So in fact you need maybe to

436
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:36,540
adapt to educate your palates with some other wines before

437
00:27:37,180 --> 00:27:41,020
and when you reach that category of wines, you

438
00:27:41,260 --> 00:27:44,820
understand what quality you have in your mouth. You know,

439
00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:47,820
it's an interesting thought because that picture there in

440
00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:51,100
1975, white zinfandel from Sutter Home,

441
00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:55,140
a mistake, an accident, you know, just he was actually trying to make

442
00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:58,950
a Provence style when fermentation stopped

443
00:27:59,030 --> 00:28:01,950
and he ends up with this sweet wine. It became a big thing. And so

444
00:28:01,950 --> 00:28:05,710
I think that tells us that yes, they'll always be

445
00:28:05,710 --> 00:28:09,030
the wines that bring people to the table the first time. White

446
00:28:09,030 --> 00:28:12,390
Zinfandel, Lambrusco, you know,

447
00:28:12,390 --> 00:28:16,110
Matuse, all these different brands from way back. And I was

448
00:28:16,110 --> 00:28:19,590
talking to a master of wine who studies the palate and some other

449
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:23,510
technical parts of wine tasting. And he said they've learned now and they've proven

450
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:27,070
that, that the palate gets tired of

451
00:28:27,070 --> 00:28:30,590
sugar, the sugar. And that's when the

452
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:34,350
consumer will realize when they get that

453
00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:37,550
final taste. And I think this has come back down to what you were doing

454
00:28:37,550 --> 00:28:41,230
here in the US this week, which is getting those

455
00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:45,070
tastes into their mouths so they understand there's something unique and better

456
00:28:45,550 --> 00:28:49,350
on the other side of this. Right. In the meantime, we need

457
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:52,790
those things. We need him to come to the table. And

458
00:28:54,790 --> 00:28:58,390
I was in Beverly Hills a few, few weeks ago at a port

459
00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:02,150
tasting and the psalm in this restaurant, very famous place.

460
00:29:02,150 --> 00:29:05,630
I'm not going to throw anybody under the bus, but he was the exact type

461
00:29:05,630 --> 00:29:09,430
of Person that intimidates and wants you

462
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:12,870
to know, as the consumer, how much he knows. And we don't need that.

463
00:29:13,590 --> 00:29:17,240
On the other hand, in Palermo,

464
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,320
we went to a seaside restaurant, and I think it was. It

465
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,200
wasn't Serbian. I think it was Slovenian, the Psalm.

466
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,760
And we ordered a nice Super Tuscan, I think it was.

467
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,480
And the way he presented the wine and the way he took

468
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,400
so much passion into making sure that the presentation was right.

469
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,240
It inspired you. I even gave him a €60

470
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,860
tip on the side because it was so

471
00:29:44,860 --> 00:29:47,380
fascinating to watch. And I go, we need more of you. I told him, I

472
00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:51,100
said, we need more of you in this industry. Sure. Because we want people

473
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:54,820
to understand the whole experience of

474
00:29:54,820 --> 00:29:58,300
this. We just got back from Ireland, and my friend was drinking all the Guinness

475
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,940
he could drink there. Yeah. And we got home, he started

476
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:05,740
drinking this again. He goes, it doesn't taste the same. Maybe it was for

477
00:30:05,740 --> 00:30:09,140
sure. In Irish. Yeah. In Dubin, I mean, maybe, maybe.

478
00:30:09,540 --> 00:30:12,900
But so is, for instance,

479
00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:17,180
the same friend of mine, we're

480
00:30:17,180 --> 00:30:20,700
doing a wedding, and I only want to pour board Bordeaux. My

481
00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:24,420
nephew's wedding, I'm only pouring Bordeaux. And so I was

482
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:27,540
tasting the second labels of

483
00:30:28,740 --> 00:30:29,140
La

484
00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:36,340
Blanc, a couple other ones. And

485
00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:39,300
so I was able to get them to know that there's a difference.

486
00:30:40,210 --> 00:30:44,010
Did you taste the difference? Like, don't explain it to me. You have

487
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:47,170
to. You don't have to give me words, but just say, are they different?

488
00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:51,250
Yeah. And that's a start. You can. Yeah, because. Right. Which one do you like

489
00:30:51,250 --> 00:30:54,410
best? Yeah, it's a start. Right? Yeah. And that feels so

490
00:30:54,410 --> 00:30:58,130
elementary. Right. Like, maybe we haven't come that far in the

491
00:30:58,130 --> 00:31:01,970
45 years I've been doing this. We're still doing the same thing. Good.

492
00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:05,860
So. So they feel it. They. They

493
00:31:05,860 --> 00:31:09,660
feel the difference. Yep. They enjoy it. On your.

494
00:31:09,740 --> 00:31:13,500
On your. Yeah, yeah, they enjoyed it. And they picked one. They pick one.

495
00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:17,100
And that's why. Yeah. I think the. The most important

496
00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:21,059
things is to recognize the brands that you

497
00:31:21,059 --> 00:31:24,540
like. I think that the label of Smithite is a.

498
00:31:24,620 --> 00:31:28,460
Is something that you can catch easily by that court arms.

499
00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:32,150
The name, the yellow color as well on the label.

500
00:31:32,390 --> 00:31:35,750
So you can see from. From a

501
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:39,350
long distance the. The. The label and you. You.

502
00:31:39,670 --> 00:31:43,190
It's a gauge as well, of quality, of guarantee

503
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:47,670
of purity of the. Of the wines in the place. You know, it's

504
00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:50,070
funny you said that, because at a friend's house,

505
00:31:51,270 --> 00:31:55,030
he has a beautiful wall and it's got the. The horizontal bottles. And

506
00:31:55,030 --> 00:31:58,370
he goes, we'll pick one. I Went right to that.

507
00:31:59,170 --> 00:32:02,970
There was the first thing I noticed, like the recognized label. I go recognize

508
00:32:02,970 --> 00:32:05,650
this. He didn't know what he had, you know. Yeah, sure. So we opened it.

509
00:32:05,650 --> 00:32:09,250
It was really good. We have that chance as well at the name of Smith

510
00:32:10,050 --> 00:32:13,810
in us. Yes, Mr. Smith. Yes. Yeah, yeah. There's

511
00:32:13,810 --> 00:32:17,410
another brand you have too, though. No, the second.

512
00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:22,770
So it's something that the American can pronounce easily,

513
00:32:23,340 --> 00:32:27,140
the name of Smith. So maybe you can help a little bit on the pronunciation

514
00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:30,980
as well, because sometimes the French are not so easy to speak.

515
00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:34,820
And so for American it might be complicated as well. You know, I try

516
00:32:34,820 --> 00:32:38,220
to explain to people that this is a very slow

517
00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:42,380
industry, just rooted, no pun

518
00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:45,660
intended, in the idea that you only get one chance a year.

519
00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:49,870
Correct. But why, why is low? Because the vine is slow.

520
00:32:49,870 --> 00:32:53,470
Yeah, right. When you plant vines before to reach that

521
00:32:53,470 --> 00:32:57,230
quality, at least 20, 22 years. So

522
00:32:57,230 --> 00:33:00,950
before that is a young vines and then the roots need to go

523
00:33:00,950 --> 00:33:04,550
down to get concentration, to get the quality

524
00:33:04,550 --> 00:33:08,070
of the earth before to send the energy up

525
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:12,030
to the grapes and to the seed. So in fact, that's why it takes time.

526
00:33:12,030 --> 00:33:15,520
The cycle is at least 20 years. So you cannot remove

527
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,000
the things as quick than soda, for

528
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,560
example. Do you think that's the premise or the

529
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,400
reason? And I don't agree with

530
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,680
this necessarily, but it's certainly what people talk about that,

531
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,840
you know, we're afraid to give up the old world, we're afraid to give up

532
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,680
the old marketing, we're afraid to give it all up. And I can

533
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,330
say in California, with the way business is

534
00:33:40,330 --> 00:33:44,170
gone, there's a lot of small importers are done and now we're at

535
00:33:44,170 --> 00:33:47,490
Southern. When the book is this thick and yet. And you're going to get lost

536
00:33:47,490 --> 00:33:51,330
in that book if you're in that book. Right. It's impossible. But if you

537
00:33:51,330 --> 00:33:55,090
know what you are looking for France, you're looking for Bordeaux. Yeah.

538
00:33:55,090 --> 00:33:58,730
Right, left bank. Right bank. Okay, Left bank for hers. Gra.

539
00:33:58,730 --> 00:34:02,490
And then you can see maybe our name. Yes. And then

540
00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:06,330
amongst others. Yeah. And that's true. That's. It's a bit

541
00:34:06,330 --> 00:34:09,930
complicated because the. The wine world is. Is made with a thousand

542
00:34:09,930 --> 00:34:12,300
and thousand of producer. So the

543
00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:17,260
cheese, if you want in market share, there is no industry who

544
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:20,580
owns more than 10% of the world market share. Maybe

545
00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:24,380
Galo American Winery is the number one with maybe 5 or 6, I don't

546
00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:27,980
know exactly, maybe 5 or 6, 7, 8% worldwide

547
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:31,740
market share. Then all the cheese is split by thousands and thousands

548
00:34:31,740 --> 00:34:35,260
of producer. So drinking a wine Is

549
00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:39,120
first of all, you need to be an expert. But I think that

550
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,680
you need to understand

551
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,040
what you are drinking, what you are tasting and what you want. And that's why

552
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,840
we do the blend as well. We do blend because in fact, we can

553
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,680
reach the maximum of quality in every grapes, in every varieties

554
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,520
and mixed blend, all of them. In fact, you get

555
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,560
much more finesse and much more availability to be

556
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,240
taste as well. I think, I think this is one of

557
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,760
my. I hang my hat on this all the time,

558
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,840
and I think it's an important thing. And for instance, the other night we had

559
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,520
dinner, we went to a restaurant, I brought a Grand Cru Burgundy and I brought

560
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,520
a third growth classified Bordeaux.

561
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,280
And my guests didn't know what we

562
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,000
were pouring. I didn't want to tell them how much they cost, particularly the

563
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,670
Grand Cru Burgundy at this point. But. But they all

564
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:35,310
said, this is excellent. And it made me think

565
00:35:36,270 --> 00:35:39,830
that the novice can recognize a, an

566
00:35:39,830 --> 00:35:43,550
honest wine properly made, properly reflective

567
00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:46,270
of its soil. And it's in and it's terroir,

568
00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:51,230
as opposed to a sugared up, doctored up, correct

569
00:35:51,310 --> 00:35:55,110
kind of thing. So that's a good thing, right, that this can

570
00:35:55,110 --> 00:35:58,580
be sensed. I think every people

571
00:35:58,740 --> 00:36:02,420
enjoy wines or people who doesn't know wines and want to start in wines,

572
00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:06,740
doesn't have to make too much complication and just try

573
00:36:06,740 --> 00:36:10,460
to recognize which country, where

574
00:36:10,460 --> 00:36:14,100
it is in the country. If you have the chance to visit, it's even better.

575
00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:19,020
And then to see if it is Pinot Noir from

576
00:36:19,020 --> 00:36:22,780
Burgundy or if it is Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot from the Left bank

577
00:36:22,780 --> 00:36:26,260
that you selected. And to try to figure

578
00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:29,880
how is the style of the grapes and

579
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,800
the right answer always, do I like it or don't

580
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,560
I like it? And I think that's the first point. The first

581
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,360
point is at that point, I, I will say, and though

582
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,880
it's been a long time still, but my friends also

583
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,440
rely on me and my family on geography.

584
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,120
And my only reason I have geography when I didn't study in school is because

585
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,940
when you study wine, you not only study geography, but you

586
00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:59,740
study a culture. I mean, it's really, really important to understand the

587
00:36:59,740 --> 00:37:02,860
culture that that wine is coming from. And if you can experience the culture, like

588
00:37:02,860 --> 00:37:06,500
go to Smith o Lafitte, you know, you understand every time you open that bottle

589
00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:10,300
of wine, there's that experience that you had. But, you know,

590
00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:14,060
something interesting happened in Napa recently, and that's Chanel came in and

591
00:37:14,060 --> 00:37:17,460
bought a winery, a Road to States, a very famous

592
00:37:17,460 --> 00:37:21,140
Privately owned winery. Jean Charles Boiset, you know, the famed son

593
00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:24,680
of Jean Claude Boisset, buying everything he gets hands on. Okay.

594
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,840
And then

595
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,800
LVMH has all their brands. It seems to me that

596
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,240
there's, you know,

597
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,320
optimism behind all that. Is that

598
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,960
happening on the left bank over in Bordeaux? What are we talking about

599
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,160
in our. Well, we have a winery as well in Napa.

600
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,920
Florence and Daniel bought it in 2020, just before COVID

601
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:53,510
January. Ouch. January. And.

602
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:57,350
But it's a region where they produce

603
00:37:57,350 --> 00:38:00,950
outstanding Cabernet Sauvignon. Yes, it's a region. We are Cabernet Sauvignon

604
00:38:00,950 --> 00:38:03,830
oriented as well as Missourafit. It's a region where you have

605
00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:08,470
to produce great Cabernet Sauvignon. You need one

606
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:12,270
thing which is extremely important to temper. You

607
00:38:12,270 --> 00:38:14,950
need an ocean. We have the Atlantic,

608
00:38:16,010 --> 00:38:19,810
California as a Pacific. And that ocean bring

609
00:38:19,810 --> 00:38:23,050
freshness, brings humidity as well and

610
00:38:23,050 --> 00:38:26,810
gives that ripeness that we enjoy in Campanis

611
00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:30,570
Sauvignon. And if you are in the same times in Napa, if you can

612
00:38:30,570 --> 00:38:34,130
reach the freshness, if you're going high in altitude, for

613
00:38:34,130 --> 00:38:37,810
example, you get a ripeness

614
00:38:37,810 --> 00:38:40,490
of fruit, which is amazing. Amazing.

615
00:38:41,530 --> 00:38:45,340
And this winery in Napa, which is named

616
00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:48,340
Cathedral Vineyard in Rutherford, is a

617
00:38:48,660 --> 00:38:52,300
historical winery. It was Louis Martini's home, was it

618
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:55,980
not, before it was James and Williams Rainey, but it was the home of

619
00:38:55,980 --> 00:38:59,260
Louis Martini. But it was a starting point with James A. Williams

620
00:38:59,260 --> 00:39:03,020
Rainey back in 1850. Wow. Two Scottish men

621
00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:06,820
who left London, they built London Bridge with their

622
00:39:06,820 --> 00:39:10,580
uncle. They were engineer. And I think they left England

623
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:14,660
for the gold rush maybe. And they arrived in California. They did not find

624
00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:18,260
gold, but they find a good place to make wines. Yes. And starting wines.

625
00:39:18,980 --> 00:39:22,740
So that winery has been dig into the Mayacamas mountain.

626
00:39:22,820 --> 00:39:25,780
So they took over the stones and built the winery.

627
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:30,180
So it's historical and iconic as well. Monsieur

628
00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:33,540
Claude is up there still. Claude? Monsieur Claude?

629
00:39:33,950 --> 00:39:36,790
No, he's not. He's not here anymore. Oh, he's not? No, he's not here anymore.

630
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:40,110
Yes. Okay. So he left a year ago. Who's running the show up there?

631
00:39:40,270 --> 00:39:42,910
Justine Labey.

632
00:39:43,710 --> 00:39:46,670
Amazing girl, winemaker.

633
00:39:47,230 --> 00:39:50,190
And so she. I thought that Justine,

634
00:39:50,830 --> 00:39:54,190
when she left, she was at Smithulafit and she

635
00:39:54,990 --> 00:39:58,270
left. She was in internship at Smithite. And she went

636
00:39:58,910 --> 00:40:02,640
just after Covid to Katya Vignan. And I. I

637
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,320
thought at the beginning that the seat would be too big

638
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,600
for her. I'm really impressed

639
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,640
because she need to refurbish all the winery to get all the

640
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,440
permits and she's pretty strong and she make

641
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,960
our extraordinary wines. We get our first 100 points

642
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,480
this year with the 23 Vantage. Are they still taking people around

643
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,800
the property in the electric Range Rover as a tour?

644
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,860
Yes. Yeah. We have the Serie 2 and from the

645
00:40:32,860 --> 00:40:36,540
80s that we refitted with a Tesla engine. Yeah,

646
00:40:36,540 --> 00:40:40,180
yeah. Is it test. Is it appointment only to get the Catal? Yeah,

647
00:40:40,180 --> 00:40:43,900
it is an appointment. Is a. Actually it's a she

648
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:47,540
winery. We have much more women inside

649
00:40:47,540 --> 00:40:51,300
than. Okay, then we'll call it than man. So take appointment. I'll tell you something

650
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:54,500
and I've. I've used this before. I'm going to do it again now. You're jog

651
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:58,300
my memory. And Florence that we were sitting

652
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:01,790
in the main tasting room. I had my cameras on and we were talking and

653
00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:06,310
she said something to me that I thought was really fascinating and

654
00:41:06,310 --> 00:41:09,070
I forgot the question. But she. Her response was

655
00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:13,310
yes, because wine is welcome to

656
00:41:13,310 --> 00:41:16,910
civilization. Correct. And I thought, wow, that was very

657
00:41:16,910 --> 00:41:20,670
powerful comment about the distinction of a good

658
00:41:20,670 --> 00:41:24,110
bottle of wine. And the CAD wines for the listeners are incredibly good. The. You

659
00:41:24,110 --> 00:41:27,350
have the founders. We have three categories. We have the

660
00:41:27,350 --> 00:41:31,110
Oha, which is on the refer for dust.

661
00:41:31,830 --> 00:41:35,670
And then on the. On the starting. On the starting here

662
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:39,510
we have Founding Brothers, which is a border blend. And

663
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:43,166
high on the hill, 1000ft,

664
00:41:43,534 --> 00:41:47,350
1300ft, Cathayard Vineyard, which is a pure cab.

665
00:41:47,830 --> 00:41:51,600
So the. The purpose here is to. To make

666
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,040
a great wine with a nice freshness,

667
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,960
to get that skill of ripeness, but in the same time

668
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:03,040
to find out the freshness that really enjoy

669
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,360
in the wines. Do you think that

670
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,880
for me now, this is my backyard, right.

671
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,960
It's harder for me in Napa to

672
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,760
define except for the hillsides, except for Atlas Peak, Mayacamas Mountains,

673
00:42:20,310 --> 00:42:23,750
the two flanking valley mountains that create a special

674
00:42:23,830 --> 00:42:27,270
type of terroir, but for sure valley

675
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:30,950
floor fruit. Now it's either because stylistically the Napa

676
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:36,069
Napoleon. Do we say that? Bordelaise Napoleon, Yeah. Good

677
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:39,830
work. They have landed on

678
00:42:39,830 --> 00:42:43,670
this opulent extracted probably no sugar, but just

679
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:47,380
this really fruit forward version of defining Napa. When in

680
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:50,860
reality the Cathiard wines do have this amazing expression

681
00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:54,300
of terroir. You tell us that

682
00:42:54,940 --> 00:42:57,980
people are fed up with residual sugar.

683
00:42:58,620 --> 00:43:02,300
And so I think that Napa has to change his style

684
00:43:02,780 --> 00:43:06,620
into. And seeking freshness on every single point.

685
00:43:07,740 --> 00:43:11,340
Freshness and precision. And so I think that

686
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:16,230
Napa in the 70s,

687
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:19,430
because we tried a lot of wines before to make our wines,

688
00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:25,230
has a wonderful wine with a lot of freshness and

689
00:43:25,230 --> 00:43:28,670
beautiful skill to be Aged. And the style of

690
00:43:28,670 --> 00:43:31,510
Napa went to concentration

691
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:34,550
big hawk a lot of

692
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:39,870
reduction as well. And so in fact

693
00:43:39,870 --> 00:43:43,510
that style is gone now. That's right. It's gotten tired. I think

694
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:47,230
so. It's gotten tired and people want to seek something with

695
00:43:47,230 --> 00:43:50,630
more freshness, more healthier. You said the three Fs.

696
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:54,630
Food pairing is very difficult when you have wines of that opulent

697
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:58,950
for it. It's very hard to do. Usually the first glass you say wow.

698
00:43:59,590 --> 00:44:03,230
And the second glass your liver say wow. I'm tired, I can't accept it

699
00:44:03,230 --> 00:44:06,700
more. That's right. So. And we make wine

700
00:44:07,170 --> 00:44:10,930
not to drink one glass, to drink one bottle. And when you finish your

701
00:44:10,930 --> 00:44:13,250
birthday, you say, oh my God, it's very good. I can have another one. I

702
00:44:13,250 --> 00:44:16,930
can tell you, since I have in my home for

703
00:44:16,930 --> 00:44:20,530
various reasons, I have two son in laws living with us and two

704
00:44:20,530 --> 00:44:23,890
daughters and my wife and I. And so it's usually four

705
00:44:23,890 --> 00:44:27,690
bottles. And I like to go through the different

706
00:44:27,690 --> 00:44:31,370
progressions. And my. I have one son in law who's was raised on the east

707
00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:35,210
coast. He's got a very peculiar and specific palette.

708
00:44:35,210 --> 00:44:38,850
Okay. He will not ever drink one of the

709
00:44:39,250 --> 00:44:42,970
big style Napa cabs that are popular. He won't drink them.

710
00:44:42,970 --> 00:44:46,650
Okay, I can open. You won't drink them. And I don't blame him. We need

711
00:44:46,650 --> 00:44:49,970
things that the cut the yard wines where they're expressing. Yeah. Some kind of

712
00:44:50,130 --> 00:44:53,650
freshness, but it's as well. As a wine grower,

713
00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:58,130
the question is to extract the sense of the place. Right.

714
00:44:58,690 --> 00:45:02,350
Because the wine is a kind of. Is the

715
00:45:02,350 --> 00:45:06,150
blood of the earth, those roots who are going

716
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:09,270
down into the earth. That's a good extract. That

717
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:14,470
minerality, sapidity and profile. And

718
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:18,230
in fact, you need to create a style.

719
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:21,110
A style coming from the place where you are.

720
00:45:22,390 --> 00:45:26,070
I think that's really important. It's very important. And every vantage is different.

721
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:29,330
So one vantage is a kind of wave.

722
00:45:30,290 --> 00:45:33,170
And we have to ride it as the best as we can.

723
00:45:33,890 --> 00:45:37,170
And that's make that

724
00:45:37,650 --> 00:45:41,330
industry, that process of making wine, a

725
00:45:41,330 --> 00:45:45,050
heart, a passion. Because every year is totally

726
00:45:45,050 --> 00:45:48,650
different and you have to express yourself as the best. So

727
00:45:48,650 --> 00:45:52,490
here's a thought that. And I came up with that all by

728
00:45:52,490 --> 00:45:54,720
myself. Okay. Which is

729
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,520
properly made wine. These two examples here, the Left Bank

730
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,880
Bordeaux, the Old Grave region and

731
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,120
Mayacamas mountains in Napa River. For Napa. Yeah.

732
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:10,720
That there is no such thing as a bad vintage.

733
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,160
Because if you make it honest to the vintage, to the weather, to the

734
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,880
soil, to the manufacturing and the winemaker does their job to express

735
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,800
that. Correct. It will be different from year to year. Yeah.

736
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,480
But if it's by the definition of

737
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,320
explaining, of interest through the bottle, it can't be bad.

738
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,160
Never. It's just different. It is different because

739
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,800
the number of stones that you have in your

740
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,480
terroir. Yes. Right. It remains the same. That's right. That

741
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,290
move. Okay. But the fruits that you're getting, the

742
00:46:47,290 --> 00:46:50,450
constant ripeness of the fruits moving up and down with the weather,

743
00:46:51,170 --> 00:46:54,930
humidity, freshness, disease, and so on. So, in fact, you have a

744
00:46:54,930 --> 00:46:58,290
peak where the fruit is over the

745
00:46:58,290 --> 00:47:02,009
minerality, and you need time where both can

746
00:47:02,009 --> 00:47:05,490
meet. All right. And you have a year

747
00:47:05,570 --> 00:47:09,090
where the fruit is not too high and

748
00:47:09,250 --> 00:47:12,950
is coming to the mineral side quicker. So

749
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:16,790
that's the perfect time to open your bottle. Yeah. And you

750
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:20,430
have yours to lay down, and you have yours that you can enjoy

751
00:47:20,430 --> 00:47:24,230
faster. I can tell you, in 1989 in Napa

752
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:27,550
was a very rough year. I mean, rough on the edges of the wine. Very

753
00:47:27,629 --> 00:47:31,110
tannic year. And 1990 was a very

754
00:47:31,110 --> 00:47:34,870
voluptuous year. That was easy. You could introduce them. So a lot of wineries put

755
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:38,510
the 90 on the shelf and left the 89 back. Okay.

756
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,600
And then the 89 came around. I made really good money

757
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,600
on the 89s because they didn't know what to do with them. And they already

758
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,320
had the 90 on the shelf, so they couldn't, you know, compete with them for

759
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,960
a few years. Yeah, it was great. The question is to forget it. Yes.

760
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,840
And then to open it. At one point. Yeah. You said something important, and

761
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,280
we're done. We're out of time, actually. Already. It's hard to believe, but I have

762
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,880
a question for you from my friend's book here, this doctor, French doctor. But before

763
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,700
we get there, you've been there 14 years in the U.S.

764
00:48:05,860 --> 00:48:09,700
no, Smith, Olafine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

765
00:48:10,020 --> 00:48:13,860
And during those 14 years, you. They've moved

766
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:15,780
from traditional to

767
00:48:17,460 --> 00:48:21,100
organic, sustainable, then now biodynamic. What have you seen

768
00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:24,780
then from the palatability of the

769
00:48:24,780 --> 00:48:28,260
wine? How did it change? Did it become. Would it go from a big, rich

770
00:48:28,260 --> 00:48:31,980
wine to a leaner, fresher wine? What. What was the general gist

771
00:48:31,980 --> 00:48:35,820
of it? We saw back, first of all,

772
00:48:35,820 --> 00:48:39,380
the life in the vineyard, and we

773
00:48:39,380 --> 00:48:42,940
saw the life back in the wines. We saw

774
00:48:42,940 --> 00:48:46,260
vines becoming more resistant themselves to

775
00:48:46,740 --> 00:48:50,460
mildew and some other disease. We

776
00:48:50,460 --> 00:48:53,700
saw more precision, more freshness in the wine, maybe less body,

777
00:48:54,500 --> 00:48:58,280
but much better precision and definition

778
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,720
into the wines. And we saw vines becoming more

779
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:05,440
resistant as well. That's really interesting. They only Became more

780
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,120
resistant. So you end up with more complexity, more layers, more

781
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,920
expression, more sapidity, more saltiness as well. Maybe not

782
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,360
as heavy on the palette, you know, maybe the texture is a little lighter. Correct.

783
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,440
Tannins with tension, you know, not

784
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,480
flappy one. Yeah, right. More tension, more precision,

785
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:28,270
more freshness. You know, it's interesting because when, when biodynamic

786
00:49:28,270 --> 00:49:30,950
became a thing here in, in

787
00:49:31,350 --> 00:49:35,110
California, they were undrinkable

788
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:38,390
and I didn't understand why.

789
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:42,790
They're using the fact that was Biodyn Biodynamic as an

790
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:46,350
excuse for it to taste like kombucha. Right. It

791
00:49:46,350 --> 00:49:49,950
shouldn't because the Burgundians were making it without all the stuff and the

792
00:49:49,950 --> 00:49:53,790
Gordon Lanes were making it years before without all the stuff. When this book

793
00:49:53,790 --> 00:49:57,610
was written, which I'm gonna ask you a question now. Herbicides, insecticides

794
00:49:57,610 --> 00:50:01,090
and fungicides weren't around. Yeah.

795
00:50:01,330 --> 00:50:05,090
And so why did they, why did it take us? I just find it interesting.

796
00:50:05,090 --> 00:50:08,170
We pat ourselves on the back now to do stuff that they're already being done

797
00:50:08,170 --> 00:50:11,849
many, many years ago. We screwed it up and now we're, we're slapping ourselves in

798
00:50:11,849 --> 00:50:15,130
the back for fixing it. And here you've done it for four. You know, this

799
00:50:15,130 --> 00:50:18,890
many years is great because it's maybe. I don't know about the

800
00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:22,730
winery you're talking about, but it's as well about the, the variety

801
00:50:22,890 --> 00:50:26,690
of rootstock that we are using. It's

802
00:50:26,690 --> 00:50:30,330
about the density of production as well. It's about

803
00:50:30,410 --> 00:50:34,250
the. Today we use modern

804
00:50:34,250 --> 00:50:38,010
technology. We use e robot for example

805
00:50:38,490 --> 00:50:42,210
in the vineyards. We use EI in

806
00:50:42,210 --> 00:50:45,290
terms of forecast, weather prediction.

807
00:50:47,530 --> 00:50:50,340
We do a lot of things by hand as well.

808
00:50:51,140 --> 00:50:54,540
Handy. So it's a cost but at the end

809
00:50:54,540 --> 00:50:57,940
it's, it's more tailor made. Every,

810
00:50:58,420 --> 00:51:01,460
every vines are made more

811
00:51:01,940 --> 00:51:05,660
managed under a tailor made process. In fact, to

812
00:51:05,660 --> 00:51:09,500
help that ripeness with this ultimate goal. Cutting the leaves, you know, or

813
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:12,980
keeping the leaves, depends if you have a hot weather or not.

814
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:17,130
Using white clay as a sunblock protection when it's very warm,

815
00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:21,010
scratching the ground to low down desertation. Yeah, really a

816
00:51:21,010 --> 00:51:23,850
green harvest when you have to do it. So

817
00:51:27,370 --> 00:51:30,650
you can make, you can produce, you can help your vines

818
00:51:31,370 --> 00:51:34,330
up to the harvest and you can

819
00:51:35,130 --> 00:51:38,770
adjust the yield, concentrate the

820
00:51:38,770 --> 00:51:42,520
concentration or not and help to reduce as well the

821
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,280
mushroom disease. The milieu by using

822
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:50,120
nettle firms, biodamy on the top. So we use both

823
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,320
organic and biodynamy. You have to learn all that.

824
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,680
Every year is different. You have the impact of the planets, the

825
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,080
warm planets, the Cold planets, the moon tied up, tie down,

826
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,400
who improve the SAP or decrease the SAP. You don't

827
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,180
prune the old vines like you prune the young vines,

828
00:52:09,340 --> 00:52:12,940
depending the moon as well. So. Well, there's Steiner's book right there.

829
00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:17,180
Rudolph Steiner, you know. Yes. I haven't read it. Steiner. We don't read it, but

830
00:52:17,180 --> 00:52:20,980
we love him. But Steiner, we don't. There is a part that

831
00:52:20,980 --> 00:52:24,060
we don't follow is the mystical

832
00:52:24,780 --> 00:52:28,380
part of Steiner where we. We don't believe on it,

833
00:52:28,380 --> 00:52:32,230
but the over influence we believe in on it. Yeah. Well,

834
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:35,950
it was brought to me originally when I got. The best

835
00:52:35,950 --> 00:52:39,710
explanation was from Piero Inchenza. And he has a

836
00:52:39,710 --> 00:52:43,430
Patagonia Pinot Noir. And he said it this way. He said two things

837
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:47,270
that have reminded me of biodynamic farming. That is, one is

838
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:51,590
if the gravitational pull of the moon can shift

839
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:56,150
7/10 of the Earth, all the water, imagine what it does in a

840
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:59,680
vineyard in our own bodies. That's very powerful. And the other was,

841
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,800
he said the armadillos have come back to the vineyard, which

842
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,080
means they're, they're

843
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,760
humane again. Right. That they can sustain life

844
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,240
like this by themselves without chemicals. All right,

845
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,920
I'm going to give you. This is Dr. Murray. He's a French doctor. This is

846
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,400
written in 1974. I have both the French version and the

847
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,570
English version. This is the English version. And he goes through

848
00:53:25,530 --> 00:53:29,210
human maladies, human diseases and sicknesses,

849
00:53:29,530 --> 00:53:32,730
and prescribes not only a particular wine,

850
00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:36,810
but a dosage. Okay, Now I'm going to give you a

851
00:53:36,810 --> 00:53:40,410
malady. I'm going to give you three choices, okay? Just so you feel more

852
00:53:40,410 --> 00:53:43,850
comfortable. No one ever gets it right. At least

853
00:53:43,850 --> 00:53:47,010
33% of the people get it right. Just the mathematical.

854
00:53:47,010 --> 00:53:49,610
Mathematical, yes. So the, the,

855
00:53:50,830 --> 00:53:54,270
the malady is nervous depression. Considering today's

856
00:53:54,270 --> 00:53:57,550
okay environment with all our phones and stupid stuff. Okay.

857
00:53:57,950 --> 00:54:01,150
And you could have a

858
00:54:01,150 --> 00:54:04,950
champagne, the Madoc

859
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:08,630
red or a coat de Bone. And what's

860
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:12,430
the. And what is the. What's

861
00:54:12,430 --> 00:54:15,070
the reason you chose that answer? When you give me the answer.

862
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,400
So champagne Madok red, a coat de

863
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,200
bone, to help your nervous depression. Correct. Which

864
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:25,960
one? You have to choose one.

865
00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:33,560
The Medoc. Why? Because you're from there? Because. No, because tannins maybe are

866
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,400
a bit higher. Yeah, well,

867
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,080
you're right. It is the Madok. Good. What. How much

868
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,120
should you have in a day? One glass.

869
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,600
It says one glass per meal. At least two glasses per meal.

870
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,040
So it's a bottle a day. Right. Almost a big glass. It's a big glass.

871
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,800
Now, here's the reason why. It says the glycerin it contains

872
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,640
combines in the intestine with the phosphates of the fermented grape juice to form

873
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,120
glycerol phosphates of natural lime.

874
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,720
There it goes. Which have tonic virtues in which do not interfere with

875
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:12,500
the functional integrity of the nervous system. Now you know.

876
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:14,980
All right. I agree, Dr. Murray. I agree.

877
00:55:16,260 --> 00:55:20,100
Yes. Such a pleasure having a show. Nice to welcome. Thank you very

878
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:22,700
much for coming. Yeah, it was really great. I hope you have a successful rest

879
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:26,220
of the trip. And we continue to tell the story, please. About Smith

880
00:55:26,220 --> 00:55:30,020
Olafite and Cathayard vineyards in Napa Valley. Yeah. Drinks good

881
00:55:30,020 --> 00:55:33,860
wines because life is short. That's right. Cheers. Cheers.