The Wine World Needs to Wake Up: Jean-Charles Boisset on Biodynamics and Breaking Rules

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We are all one. So wine is, as you

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just said, Paul, brings unity and brings

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diversity, brings equality, brings all of us

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within this unbelievable vessel that

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is the glass, the expression of all our cultures.

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And I think it's fabulous because wine

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eventually can bring peace. Sit back and grab a

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glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul Kaye.

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Hello. Listen to that beautiful sound.

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Beautiful. We love the Baccarat line that

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you've produced. Oh, thank you so much. We love, we love

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the Baccarat Hotel. Fabulous. Isn't it great? We love

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it. Yeah. We love it. I mean, not right now in New York, but for

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those who— Eventually. For the folks that don't know what's happening, Monsieur

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Jean-Charles Boisset just walked into the room, and apparently that's when he walks walks in

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the room, everybody knows. Is that what happens? Well, because I make a lot of

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noise and I carry it back out. Yes, it

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carries. Listen to the sound.

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Oh, that is beautiful. The depth is beautiful. It's

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insane. Actually, I'm looking for the— I'm looking for the martini glasses. I heard

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they're not out yet. Well, it's coming, it's coming. Obviously, you know, many

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factories and manufacturers were closed as well in

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France. And, you know, Baccarat is made in the town of

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Baccarat, right outside of a beautiful town, you know, very well named Nancy.

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They've been making Cristal there since

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1764, and they were closed

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for a little while, so they got delayed, but we're launching it in January. Okay,

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I'll look forward to that because— We cannot wait. I, I,

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when I read about the Baccarat Hotel being the, the only licensed

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name for a hotel, and then I read about the town, like

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4,500 residents, and they, that's all they do is make Cristal there. And then

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we saw your product line. Marta brought it to us. Thank you. And I'm

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like, okay, I gotta get some of this. 'Cause I wanna be the only one

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on the block that has it, right? Absolutely.

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Well, and we wanted Paul to create the ultimate glass. So, the one and only,

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the only glass you need for white, rosé, and of course, red

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wine, and whatever type of red. Thank goodness. So, the width

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is 9.5 centimeters. The opening around

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the mouth is around 8 centimeters. And then you have a lip, which

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allows you, as you're looking at me here drinking, go

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directly into the middle of the tongue, the umami area.

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Mm. You see, it goes right in. Yeah. So we've

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calculated the height of the glass to

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penetrate your mouth in such a way that it goes right in the middle. It's

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perfect. And that's what we were trying to achieve is

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perfection to accompany the movement, the

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geste, as you know well in French. Absolutely. The movement is everything as a

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winemaker. as tending the vineyards, as obviously tasting

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wine. It's all about how we behave. If you do kickboxing,

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the geste. If you do tennis, the movement. Yes.

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It's all about how we move. I don't think, I don't think, and, and I

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get this question all the time, that people understand the

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value of the glass when it comes to tasting and enjoying wine. Right.

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How important that is. And I have tasted wines. I said, okay, just take this,

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take a plastic tumbler and put a, put an 1881 Cab in it and put

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it in one of these glasses. And you tell me that they don't taste different,

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that the The experience at least is different, right? That's right. So, this is beautiful.

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It's fundamental. Thank you, Paul, for mentioning that. There's, I

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believe, 3 things which are essential. One,

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the glass. 2, the decanter. Yes,

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very important to have a great decanter. And 3rd,

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the association, the understanding, and the love of all

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one another. That trifecta, that tri-mingle relationship

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of the glass, the decanter, and the person. And I've

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collected over 5,000 decanters in my life. Really? Which

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are— where's that collection? I wanna see it. Well, there's 75 of them

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at 1881. Yes. On, on, in the museum.

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And there's around 800 at Buena Vista and the balance

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in all our different wineries. Wow. And I've collected

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glasses. And to your point, Paul, tasting in different

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glasses is a very different experience. It's like traveling in a different car,

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which is like being in a different decorated house. Yes. And I really believe the

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glass, as you said, said is essential, the

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movements, the celebration, the respect of the wine,

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and at the same time, how it goes into your

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mouth, how it creates the mouthfeel, and what we call

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the retro-olfaction, which means the wine you

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swallow and you inhale it, and

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it goes back in the back of your nose,

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into your nostril again, through the back end. Covers all the senses. All the

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senses. And I think a glass which is

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one-dimensional, is a sad moment because one, it doesn't

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respect the actual wine being made. Two, it doesn't

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really help the pleasure and unveiling of the wine.

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And third, it's not as tactile. I mean, look at the centrality. That's

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right. That was my next point. I know you love to touch. That was my

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next point. Touch and feel and

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caress. That was my next point. Use your fingers for something. The

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weight. And you know what I like? I always

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say, Paul, to people, If you don't want to swirl in

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the air because you've never done it, use the table. That's

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right. Go clockwise to

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create energy, a vortex, and go

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counterclockwise to create cows. The

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yin and the yang. Oh, that's interesting. I've never done both

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ways. I'm sort of a counterclockwise guy. Well, look, yeah, I'm sort of a

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counterclockwise guy. I don't know, is that a good thing? Well, it's a great thing.

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And the way you're doing it— are you ambidextrous? Uh, yeah,

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pretty much, right? Well, I could see you're very good with both. So

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what I recommend is you go clockwise with your left

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hand. Oh, good idea. Very simple. And

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counterclockwise with your right hand. You put between 2 of your

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fingers the stem, right? Very simply.

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I like that. And then you bring the

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glass to your nose at around 1.5 centimeters.

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You could dive into— this opening is great because you could

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really dive in. Yes. Look at my nose. See? Right?

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I'm very ripped, Sean. Nose like the Greek

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philosophers. You look like Socrates.

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Aristotle. Plato. You're the man. Sound like him too.

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But you know what I'm interested with this nose of this glass? Because I like

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to move from the top to the bottom of the glass. I like to feel

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what's going on around me. That's what you mean. This glass is uniform. And

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you move very well. And I'm talking about your beautiful

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wife who's with us. Thank you. Yes, she is beautiful. Well,

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and Paul, you just mentioned something essential. Think about a

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Catholic cross. Verticality,

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horizontality. That's right. What you want The

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mouth, the tongue is created on the

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front, is a sensor. It's a sensory analysis.

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So your front is salt, sugar. The

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back end is bitterness, acidity. The side is

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fatness. Yes. In the middle is what the Japanese call umami.

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You want what I call always horizontality and

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verticality. And the French are very big in that. When you learn how to

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taste wine, I mean, for me, I've never learned how to taste wine

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because my My mother gave me wine from her

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breast. Well, I suppose that's— Yeah, it's a

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very— You could have experienced different types of wine that way, but—

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Yeah, she made sure that I— It was a Vougeot,

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no less. Well, Vougeot, can you believe, Paul? My mother

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acknowledged to me many years later, I was born in Vougeot, in

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the cradle of the Grand Cru, looking at the Clos Vougeot, the Musigny, the

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Chambolle-Musigny, the Connemare, the Echazeau.

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And she said only like— and then you've met my mom, probably

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very conservative lady, but she said, Jean-Charles, I need to confess

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within all the movements of what now we have to put on the back

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label. I was pregnant with you. I never stopped drinking wine and

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smoking. Well, maybe that explains a couple of things. Who

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knows? The way it was. When

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did she admit this to you? Was this recently or— This was 10 years ago

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when I turned 40. When I turned 50, she acknowledged a lot. more

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things that I cannot repeat. So tell me about those days.

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Vujoh, you were— you came here when you were 11. You went to Buena

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Vista. Well, thank you for asking. So, Thayne was

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telling you certainly about his background, and he will more about

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being raised in a great state of America, which I love, one of my

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favorite states with wonderful people, very similar to me.

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So imagine Vujoh, born in 1969,

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literally in the leaf of the vineyards of Vujoh.

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My parents had started the winery in the living room. My

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bedroom was on top of the winery, as well as my sister, who's

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4 years older and a great sister, really very inspirational.

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And basically, I made wine since birth. I was playing hide and seek in the

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barrel room. I was like, if your parents have a restaurant, you

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taste it all, you're on the menu. Yep. You know probably everything about

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cooking. I was raised there. But what I want to stress Paul,

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to you, who's very human, extremely great

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personality, and very turned to others, very altruistic, very

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similar. 180 people in the village, still the same

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number today. Phenomenal. You knew everyone. I was

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born next to the bakery. The baker started to bake at

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around 3:00 AM. By 6:00 in the morning, you could get a

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fresh croissant. Oh, wow. You know everyone in the village from the

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age of 5 years old to Roughly close to

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105 years old, because people live long in Burgundy, don't they?

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Well, they drink great wine. Beautiful wines. And that was my life.

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So raised with my grandparents next door. My grandparents were

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schoolteachers. And those grandparents that you're referring to very kindly

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took me to the US when I was 10 and a half. Why?

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They were resistant in the war, very close to American soldiers.

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They were obviously there for D-Day. And helped, of

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course, as much as they could because they had been 5 years in the conflict.

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Loved America. Unbelievable. And they said to my sister and

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I, we're going to take you to the US on a 10-day

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trip. In fact, close to where you are. We did

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from LA, one of the big missions of Los Angeles,

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Monterey, all the way to Sonoma. And we came

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to Buena Vista as the last visit of the trip. We

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tasted wine, 3 Chardonnays. I touched the

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building and I said to my sister, this is where we need to

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come. Isn't that great? And I felt that missionary— Yeah. Ocean.

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Right. My body was vibrating and I'm not

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exaggerating. The first thing I said to my parents when we came back, I said,

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one day we— I was 10 and a half. Yeah. We've gotta

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make wine in America. This is gonna be the place. We tasted

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wine with calibers of Chassagne-Montrachet,

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Meursault. Right. Maybe not Meursault, a Corton-Charlemagne

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or Bâtard-Montrachet or Chevalier-Montrachet, but maybe

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even Puligny-Montrachet. And those 3 wines we

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tasted from 3 areas of the Russian

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River and Carneros as white Chardonnays were amazing and they

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were magnetic. So that was the beginning. So this is interesting to me

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because you're born into the industry, you're born in what the greatest,

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you know, I consider one of the greatest wine regions of the world. Thank you.

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Being what it is and its granularity and its, you know, the monks

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were, you know, harvesting in the 12th century. they knew what they had.

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And you come to the New World, so to speak, and you end up in

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Napa, which is in its early days of winemaking, and

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you fall in love with their Chardonnay. Yes. And how does—

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you know, it's like that, a new experience, like an ethereal experience.

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Ethereal. This is— I got— Well, I fell in love

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with what America means. I fell in love with

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you as the people who really constitute and bring the

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energy to this amazing land. Without you as great people, there's

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nothing here. nothing, just a landscape. It's not enough. So when you

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come to America as a foreigner, you magnetize, you

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energize, you inspire, you excited,

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you have your level of energy going way up on the

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Bovis scale to thousands of units. Because of what you

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perceive being a young village, as a

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young person in a young village. A great nation where

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innovation, pioneering, Transcendenting

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what you know and going for what you don't know, allowing to

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say you don't know. I come in a place where the French

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typically are ashamed if they don't know. They don't like to ask

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questions because they're afraid to be judged. So here it's a

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nonjudgmental country, or at least was.

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And the feeling— Yeah, if you want to watch the news now, then you're— Yeah.

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And that's sad to see. But I really

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believe America is the best place on the planet still today.

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I really feel America changed my vision

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of who I am very early on. And I got fortunate, I got to

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travel and come to this amazing country that is the

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dream of the world to come to America. Here's how Jacques Lardier put it,

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'cause I was actually talking to him and I said, well, we don't have, you

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know, we don't have foods growing up in Burgundy like you did. You had

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the wines and the foods that went with it in Bordeaux. and in

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Tuscany. Those things happen. America doesn't have that. We don't even have indigenous

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grapes. And he says, yes, but you have the New World. You get

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to start from scratch and try and experiment and

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make things happen with what you do have. And I thought, that is a

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fascinating explanation because I looked at it the other way. I'm like, oh,

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we're restricted. We don't get that. And you know, Paul, there's

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something we need to be very proud in the US. And I say we,

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I'm obviously pretentious thinking that my 3 decades

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here are really helping, but you've achieved so much

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in a short period of time. You've done so much

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to the world in general, not only in wine, because you're

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helping greatly in wine today. Look, we have a

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team of 28 winemakers worldwide. Wow. Many you've met.

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Very talented, like Thayne. And today we look as much

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at American innovation as we do at European innovation.

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So America what I love pushes it,

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pushes it to the point that, one, it's not that new.

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Remember, America has been— you know, humans

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have been around here. Yeah, that's true. We discovered it recently,

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but it has so much to offer. And number two, it has

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that what I refer to as

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non-judgmental society, which is so

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important. You go to the UK, to Germany, from who you are to what

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your family has done, you already are

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prejudge to what you can, cannot do, how you're perceived.

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In America, it's the opposite. Do you think that's just from

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the thousands of years of mankind being in those areas and

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that's just the way it's going to be? Well, I think it's a

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combination of both. Yeah, I believe the

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spirit of America, which I never want to see going away,

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is that sense of always

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being very Cartesian, meaning

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raise table. You erase what is on the table

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or on the canvas, and you're willing to throw the dice and

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start again from scratch. That is it.

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Admiring it. I mean, look at today, the sense

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of— and I have goosebumps telling you that— of entrepreneurship that there

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is in America, irrelevant of what the world is saying.

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The world always criticizes because the world is always

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jealous. But America is the leader, is the

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most powerful economy, is the most exciting place on the planet,

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has the most diverse geography, group of people,

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and energy. And I really believe America leads

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not only by being strong and powerful, but by

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example, by innovating, by doing. Absolutely. And I would leave you with

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that thought. The world belongs who

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are audacious, who want to take risk, and who want to

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go beyond the establishment or the

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established status quo, and who are willing to

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question. And that's what I love in America is you feel,

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as you get up in the morning, you breathe, and you can do

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it. Her mother is an immigrant. My father came from

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Cairo with a degree in pharmacology, got a degree,

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master's, became a pharmacist, fell in love with wine in 1958

283
00:17:40,101 --> 00:17:43,730
when Quinlan Elizabeth came and Dwight Eisenhower poured her

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at lunch, not at the state dinner, a '59 or '60

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Charles Krug Special Select or Vineyard Select. Wonderful. Nice. And, you know, the

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00:17:51,217 --> 00:17:54,905
first president ever to pour at a state dinner was Johnson after him.

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But the point I'm making is there's a guy named George Mardiki, and he was

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a chef who came to America. You know the guy, right? Yep.

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Omar Khayyam is his restaurant. I'm just reading his book. It's a fabulous book.

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Amazing. That moment that he sees the

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Statue of Liberty and describes his feeling coming

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here after what he came from, you get shivers,

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just like you said. You get shivers because it still stands

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for that. It still can stand for that. It still is that. I don't know

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00:18:25,238 --> 00:18:29,071
if we're reminded constantly of what it stands for. So

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you from Egypt originally, one of my favorite country. I've been there

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15 times. Car. Car. Well, I've gone all

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over Egypt. And when you look at this

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civilization followed by the Greek and then the

300
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Romans and et cetera, you have those amazing

301
00:18:47,788 --> 00:18:51,009
cycles of 3, 4, 5 centuries. Yes. Where

302
00:18:51,009 --> 00:18:54,501
nations are born, they rise, they

303
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mature, and eventually they decline. I

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00:18:58,090 --> 00:19:01,824
hope America is still, and I believe it is, on that

305
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,608
that great growth swing. Take my home nation,

306
00:19:06,426 --> 00:19:10,194
France. Yes. Take the 18th century, which is a time everybody

307
00:19:10,194 --> 00:19:13,466
loved France. It was ruling the world. Louis XIV,

308
00:19:13,803 --> 00:19:17,234
followed by the XV, really went all around the

309
00:19:17,266 --> 00:19:21,115
world, went and helped obviously the

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00:19:21,115 --> 00:19:24,867
independence of the English in America. Of course. Needless to say, we

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won't forget that. But really where

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00:19:28,796 --> 00:19:32,597
innovators in their own way and put France on the map. Today,

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00:19:32,661 --> 00:19:35,516
France is the 7th, 8th, 9th

314
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economy of the world, and it's certainly not what it used to be. So

315
00:19:39,878 --> 00:19:43,454
I think we need to look at it as a life cycle of soil, of

316
00:19:43,470 --> 00:19:47,239
vines, of wines. Well, I think so. Yeah, sure. Why not? And

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00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,249
today, America is the place. I'm energized though

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that I think America has succeeded

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to go a step beyond, as the Greeks have. I mentioned

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Socrates, Plato, and many others.

321
00:20:03,771 --> 00:20:07,561
America is representing a lifestyle and a way of

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life, a way of living. Which is still envied.

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00:20:11,737 --> 00:20:14,531
Very much so. Throughout the world. Very much so. We can keep it that way.

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00:20:14,788 --> 00:20:17,904
We can't keep it that way. And I think— I'm sure we can if we

325
00:20:17,904 --> 00:20:21,581
continue the respected debate as

326
00:20:21,613 --> 00:20:24,979
it used to be done in the Greek amphitheater. And hence the

327
00:20:24,979 --> 00:20:28,714
amphitheater. It's a circle place where ideas

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move around. They're not static. And you respect

329
00:20:32,593 --> 00:20:36,088
the fact that we may disagree on a topic, we may evolve

330
00:20:36,264 --> 00:20:40,015
thanks to a topic, and we may change each other's mind. Because

331
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the biggest sign, I think, of intelligence is to know

332
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,383
how to change your opinion if you believe you've

333
00:20:48,383 --> 00:20:51,958
been wrong. That's absolutely right on.

334
00:20:52,936 --> 00:20:56,622
It's not very French though, is it? Well, I believe— The Gilets

335
00:20:56,638 --> 00:21:00,149
Jaunes, et cetera. And all that. And

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00:21:00,566 --> 00:21:03,964
I believe the right of striking and the right of, without

337
00:21:04,157 --> 00:21:07,956
looting, of course, but the right of expressing yourself in the street, like

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Hyde Park Corner in the UK and others. Right. Yeah, for sure.

339
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Self-expression is very important. However, I feel

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the French often became caught in

341
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their own history and became very static and very

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afraid of any sense of being

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themselves. And I think the true

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face of America, it's allowing you to be

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the self that you ought to be and to

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become eventually what you dream

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to evolve into. Well, it sounds like having come here

348
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when you're 11 and living the dream

349
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to buy Buena Vista when you were old enough and in a position to do

350
00:21:53,780 --> 00:21:57,260
that, along with other wineries like

351
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Raymond, et cetera. I was telling Thayne that the Raymond brothers used to pour when

352
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I used to start, when I started tasting wine in the late '80s. I'd go

353
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to the tastings, the Raymond brothers were there, very nice guys. They both stand there

354
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together, just like, it was like, you know, fricking frack, you

355
00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:13,260
know? Salt of the earth, really. I

356
00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:17,080
mean, just amazing people. They were amazing people. Like cornerstones of the valley. The

357
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fact that you could evolve that into what you're doing

358
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today. And now I wanna discuss a little bit But the

359
00:22:23,950 --> 00:22:27,710
biodynamic movement, the organic movement, I get it all

360
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:31,530
the time. I get the stuff that tastes like wet, you know, horsehair.

361
00:22:31,530 --> 00:22:35,370
It's, you know, and I love the biodynamic idea as well as organic, but

362
00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:38,530
some people just aren't doing it right because I don't think you need to suffer

363
00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:41,910
the experience of a good glass of wine just because it's organic or biodynamic,

364
00:22:41,910 --> 00:22:44,970
right? Right. You should be able to enjoy this. If you're gonna make it in

365
00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:48,790
your closet at the dorm, that's organic, is it not? I mean, what else

366
00:22:48,790 --> 00:22:52,530
is it? There you go. So, well, how did you come across deciding

367
00:22:52,530 --> 00:22:55,643
to do that for your wines and then, embrace it so

368
00:22:55,643 --> 00:22:59,399
vividly? Well, I think I'm going to talk about the history and we'll

369
00:22:59,399 --> 00:23:03,234
let Stijn— Okay. —to explain how he embraced it because

370
00:23:03,266 --> 00:23:07,086
he's more of a scientific young man than I am, having done

371
00:23:07,134 --> 00:23:10,970
scientific studies from physics to chemistry. So

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00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:14,131
he comes from a more intellectual engineering

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background, if you wish. I come from a very

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simple background in a sense that my

375
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,560
grandmother, Paul, at 7 years old, had

376
00:23:24,688 --> 00:23:27,333
me, which was great, as well as my parents, do the garden,

377
00:23:28,455 --> 00:23:32,191
pour compost that we would create, which was the alchemy of

378
00:23:32,287 --> 00:23:35,990
birds, horses, and cow, in order to compensate the

379
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:39,645
nitrogen or potassium level of the soil. Yes. And really bring

380
00:23:39,741 --> 00:23:42,787
the energy back to the soil, the life to the soil. So,

381
00:23:43,589 --> 00:23:46,138
in other words, what I'm telling you in a long way is I was very

382
00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:50,082
lucky to learn the meaning of nature as my

383
00:23:50,098 --> 00:23:53,676
best friend, treating like I would want to be treated,

384
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and really respecting her to the depth of her energy

385
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all the way combined with what

386
00:24:01,659 --> 00:24:05,321
surrounds the culture you're trying to bring

387
00:24:05,434 --> 00:24:08,807
to a site or to terroir. So let me be more

388
00:24:08,807 --> 00:24:12,469
specific there. The philosophy of

389
00:24:12,485 --> 00:24:15,617
organic is simple. No pesticides, no

390
00:24:15,714 --> 00:24:19,552
herbicides. Up to now, it's simple. It's going back to what we

391
00:24:19,633 --> 00:24:23,471
used to do pre- World War II. You know, we invented

392
00:24:23,503 --> 00:24:26,682
synthetic products, and the French, unfortunately, so many

393
00:24:27,437 --> 00:24:30,744
that we became genetically modified and we became,

394
00:24:31,210 --> 00:24:34,196
unfortunately, very much synthetic

395
00:24:34,967 --> 00:24:38,628
products oriented. The French in the '60s and '70s were

396
00:24:38,740 --> 00:24:42,257
crazy, and we would spray everything. It was becoming an

397
00:24:42,353 --> 00:24:45,629
8-to-5 life. So I realized very quickly

398
00:24:46,206 --> 00:24:50,040
thanks to my grandmother, who was a schoolteacher and a resistant in

399
00:24:50,072 --> 00:24:53,921
the war and an amazing lady, and my grandfather, that the

400
00:24:53,985 --> 00:24:57,498
world was much larger than the Earth. In other words,

401
00:24:58,492 --> 00:25:01,876
you could think, fit thousands of Earths in Jupiter.

402
00:25:02,422 --> 00:25:06,159
The sun is 109 times larger than the Earth,

403
00:25:07,217 --> 00:25:10,649
and the moon as well is larger than our space.

404
00:25:10,778 --> 00:25:14,579
Mm-hmm. So I learned very fast, Paul, that there was

405
00:25:14,917 --> 00:25:18,703
a key magnetic interaction between

406
00:25:18,736 --> 00:25:22,263
the sun, the moon, and obviously the Earth.

407
00:25:23,024 --> 00:25:26,389
When you stay in the United States, you realize the Aztec and the Mayans

408
00:25:27,215 --> 00:25:31,034
in the 12th, 14th, 15th century used to live according to the

409
00:25:31,034 --> 00:25:34,757
solar and lunar calendar. You go to Asia, and

410
00:25:34,757 --> 00:25:38,176
obviously the Chinese today still live according to the lunar calendar.

411
00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:42,312
February 6th or 7th is— Yeah. the New Year. So

412
00:25:42,969 --> 00:25:46,623
what is so important is Rudolf Steiner put it on paper in

413
00:25:46,671 --> 00:25:49,443
1924. Mm-hmm. Maria Thun

414
00:25:49,619 --> 00:25:53,417
exemplified the application of the lunar calendar into

415
00:25:54,282 --> 00:25:57,087
an agricultural calendar. But what is key

416
00:25:58,433 --> 00:26:02,262
is at 7 years old, 8 years old, 9 years old,

417
00:26:02,375 --> 00:26:05,547
10 years old, I was in the garden, I was in the vineyards.

418
00:26:06,365 --> 00:26:09,874
I saw what not should be done in the most expensive

419
00:26:09,906 --> 00:26:13,062
vineyard in the world, Burgundy. Yes. Because we went into an

420
00:26:13,094 --> 00:26:15,546
intensive compaction of the soil,

421
00:26:16,715 --> 00:26:20,545
obviously treatment in the vineyards from herbicides to pesticides, which will end

422
00:26:20,545 --> 00:26:23,541
up in your glass of water because it penetrates

423
00:26:24,246 --> 00:26:27,386
pipes. It goes in everywhere. It's like

424
00:26:27,995 --> 00:26:31,840
very cancerous. And finally, I really understood

425
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,885
that the rhythm of Mother Nature is not dictated by us.

426
00:26:35,786 --> 00:26:39,433
But by the interaction of the lunar solar

427
00:26:39,433 --> 00:26:43,144
calendar and the Earth. When you get this, Paul,

428
00:26:43,161 --> 00:26:46,984
you get it all. So I was very lucky. I was 11, 12 years old.

429
00:26:47,049 --> 00:26:50,748
We were cultivating the best gardens of Burgundy. And luckily,

430
00:26:51,329 --> 00:26:54,738
my sister and I planted many vineyards together, and we were

431
00:26:54,738 --> 00:26:58,262
physically working a lot the vines and the soil. And

432
00:26:59,087 --> 00:27:02,823
we cannot— Yeah. Be blind. When you

433
00:27:02,823 --> 00:27:06,662
see the results of respecting Mother Nature, working

434
00:27:06,758 --> 00:27:09,842
with her in symbiotic relationship with her

435
00:27:10,533 --> 00:27:13,906
own rhythm, her own cycle,

436
00:27:15,126 --> 00:27:18,805
you embrace her. And I would like to tell you

437
00:27:18,805 --> 00:27:22,242
very early on, and I applaud my daughters who are young

438
00:27:22,355 --> 00:27:25,936
twins, they love to work barefoot because early

439
00:27:26,049 --> 00:27:29,149
on I kept repeating the old Native American saying,

440
00:27:29,662 --> 00:27:32,980
take off your shoes and caress the skin

441
00:27:33,509 --> 00:27:37,068
of Mother Nature. And I think this says it all. I

442
00:27:37,180 --> 00:27:40,755
believe we cannot imagine today

443
00:27:41,364 --> 00:27:44,779
witnessing what I'm seeing outside of the window and

444
00:27:45,051 --> 00:27:48,786
temperatures which are out of whack, heats which is

445
00:27:49,283 --> 00:27:52,505
out of control, weather patterns which are totally

446
00:27:52,505 --> 00:27:56,160
dysfunctional, to obviously everything that we're

447
00:27:56,192 --> 00:27:59,943
combating because of the excess we've created. That's true. And

448
00:28:00,023 --> 00:28:03,696
I would plagiarize the Pope who said it 2 years ago,

449
00:28:03,970 --> 00:28:07,747
we are creating our own outcome. And

450
00:28:07,747 --> 00:28:11,386
he's right on the fact that we, for so long, have

451
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:15,089
pushed Mother Nature on an extreme level that is not right.

452
00:28:15,462 --> 00:28:18,045
And you could see us as a winery,

453
00:28:18,918 --> 00:28:22,473
28 wineries, Raymond Vineyards, where we are today,

454
00:28:22,666 --> 00:28:26,365
where Thane obviously expresses himself beautifully, as well as 1881.

455
00:28:27,758 --> 00:28:31,387
All organic, all biodynamic, the largest estate in Napa

456
00:28:31,387 --> 00:28:34,872
Valley. We started 10 years ago. The soil,

457
00:28:35,241 --> 00:28:38,517
the life of the vines is the best there is ever made in Napa.

458
00:28:39,272 --> 00:28:42,821
Our property is totally solar paneled, water management—

459
00:28:42,934 --> 00:28:46,772
Sustainable too. 100%. Wow. We recycle

460
00:28:46,884 --> 00:28:50,385
glass, we recycle every single cork that we reblend.

461
00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:54,335
We reduce, reuse, and recycle.

462
00:28:55,226 --> 00:28:58,914
We are truly— and I could look at myself in the mirror on a daily

463
00:28:58,930 --> 00:29:02,683
basis and say, we're doing everything for Mother Nature to

464
00:29:02,731 --> 00:29:06,349
preserve what she has granted us to have.

465
00:29:07,108 --> 00:29:10,499
And I think it's very important, Paul, as you are yourself,

466
00:29:10,887 --> 00:29:14,617
you have an incredible palate, you have fabulous judgment, and you know

467
00:29:15,426 --> 00:29:18,890
wine inside out. We're not enjoying what we have in our glass

468
00:29:19,812 --> 00:29:22,857
because we're great winemakers. It's because we're great stewards. Yeah.

469
00:29:23,603 --> 00:29:27,293
steward of the land. Let's be humble for a sec. For sure. 80%

470
00:29:27,309 --> 00:29:31,079
of a great wine is made in the vineyard, right? And it's thanks to the

471
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:34,400
soil. It's thanks to everything that is

472
00:29:34,657 --> 00:29:38,235
given to that beautiful cluster. Of course,

473
00:29:38,909 --> 00:29:42,534
you need fabulous winemakers like Thayne to

474
00:29:42,534 --> 00:29:45,471
take it to the next level, no question about it. But

475
00:29:46,529 --> 00:29:49,978
without the clear passionate

476
00:29:49,978 --> 00:29:53,699
friendship that you have with Mother Nature. Why we

477
00:29:53,843 --> 00:29:57,018
are honestly, and I'm gonna say pretentiously, good at what we do.

478
00:29:57,852 --> 00:30:01,428
I mean, we have 300 wines over 92 points in every single

479
00:30:01,461 --> 00:30:03,898
magazine, 300 per year.

480
00:30:05,309 --> 00:30:08,725
We have an— That's pretty good, Thayne. It's huge. Excuse me. We have an amazing

481
00:30:08,837 --> 00:30:12,013
team, amazing team, and we have

482
00:30:12,205 --> 00:30:15,605
amazing vineyards who are cultivated Paul,

483
00:30:16,456 --> 00:30:20,178
what you have yourself is great magnetism. You have passion. Why do I

484
00:30:20,788 --> 00:30:24,350
want to be with you? Because you're passionate, you're electric, you have

485
00:30:24,463 --> 00:30:28,249
radiation that are very positive coming out of you. You love what you

486
00:30:28,249 --> 00:30:31,844
do, you know what you do, and you do it with a smile. Thank you.

487
00:30:32,341 --> 00:30:35,871
And I say that with all my heart because it's so

488
00:30:36,176 --> 00:30:39,786
critical today. And you have a big influence with your great

489
00:30:39,786 --> 00:30:43,589
podcast as well as our JCB Live, where we'll gladly as

490
00:30:43,718 --> 00:30:46,509
well podcast it too, is

491
00:30:47,806 --> 00:30:51,542
we need to be true to where we come from. We are not

492
00:30:51,671 --> 00:30:55,443
Martian, we are not aliens. We come from Mother Nature. We are a

493
00:30:55,508 --> 00:30:59,087
product of her. We need to be respectful of her. You know, you're

494
00:30:59,087 --> 00:31:01,364
very, you're very, I'm not gonna say fortunate.

495
00:31:03,545 --> 00:31:07,339
One of the most profound comments I hear from wineries all over

496
00:31:07,339 --> 00:31:10,128
the world, the wine, the mayor of

497
00:31:10,890 --> 00:31:13,408
Montefalco, what's his name?

498
00:31:15,772 --> 00:31:18,902
Valentino Valentini. Is that a name for the movies or what?

499
00:31:18,998 --> 00:31:22,240
Valentino Valentini. Great name. No, I love Valentino as a person. Yeah,

500
00:31:22,256 --> 00:31:25,306
Valentino Valentini, mayor

501
00:31:26,525 --> 00:31:30,169
of Montefalco. He makes Sagrantino. It's a gorgeous grape. He

502
00:31:30,169 --> 00:31:33,956
makes it biodynamically. And he says, why would I

503
00:31:34,085 --> 00:31:37,840
put pesticides? My kids are playing in that vineyard. Just

504
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,483
like you're playing, right? Why would I do that? That's right. And then you take

505
00:31:41,531 --> 00:31:45,029
the next step of that, and I was talking Piero Incenza,

506
00:31:46,505 --> 00:31:49,939
his grandfather started Ornalaya or Sasagaya. And

507
00:31:50,227 --> 00:31:53,340
this is what you were talking about. He says, the

508
00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:57,078
gravitational pull of the moon alone moves oceans.

509
00:31:57,575 --> 00:32:01,217
For sure, the ebb and flow. Right. So how would we not

510
00:32:01,346 --> 00:32:05,148
consider that when it comes to agriculture? It's a really powerful force, right?

511
00:32:05,196 --> 00:32:08,244
Yes. How would we not consider that? Our whole body is 90% water.

512
00:32:09,210 --> 00:32:12,810
Right? So, such an important thing. And the fact that you're able to— Well, yours

513
00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:16,650
has a little bit of wine with it. Yeah. Yeah. But the fact

514
00:32:16,650 --> 00:32:20,390
you're able to create wines that meet the standard of today's point

515
00:32:20,390 --> 00:32:23,110
system and all the rest of the stuff that we have to deal with is

516
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:26,870
pretty amazing in that realm. That's amazing. Well, and what is amazing, I'm gonna give

517
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:30,330
you an example of where we are right now. So, you are in the

518
00:32:30,330 --> 00:32:33,090
epicenter of the Napa Valley. There's a special

519
00:32:33,090 --> 00:32:36,630
philosophy that I've been following because I've been doing

520
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:38,750
pendulum energy since birth. At 7 years old,

521
00:32:40,610 --> 00:32:44,304
I was identifying water source, water current. I was

522
00:32:45,525 --> 00:32:49,187
really identifying magnetic patterns within the soil.

523
00:32:49,316 --> 00:32:52,962
So what did we do with the new Raymond? As you know, we bought all

524
00:32:53,091 --> 00:32:56,769
the properties around us and we're finishing the road that you

525
00:32:56,769 --> 00:33:00,432
probably have seen on Highway 29. Yes. So what did we do?

526
00:33:01,347 --> 00:33:04,897
We took the pattern of Leo in the sky,

527
00:33:05,701 --> 00:33:08,222
which is a repetition which happens at this time of the year,

528
00:33:08,833 --> 00:33:12,092
pre-harvest. So Leo, the alignment of the stars

529
00:33:12,766 --> 00:33:16,539
that we gridded from the entrance to the first

530
00:33:16,539 --> 00:33:20,280
turnabout. Really? Which represents the moon and then the sun

531
00:33:20,874 --> 00:33:24,438
and then the alignment of Napa Valley in

532
00:33:24,486 --> 00:33:28,146
relationship to the Vacas Mountain, Maikamas,

533
00:33:28,499 --> 00:33:32,288
and Mount Santelina. Phenomenal. And I will explain all that in a few

534
00:33:32,353 --> 00:33:35,371
weeks when we unveil the actual

535
00:33:35,740 --> 00:33:39,223
measurements of why we've created this. We believe

536
00:33:39,897 --> 00:33:42,914
we all here as friends to create additional energy.

537
00:33:43,893 --> 00:33:47,649
We're here to create vibration. We're here to bring

538
00:33:48,724 --> 00:33:52,303
a form of positive energy to all of us.

539
00:33:53,282 --> 00:33:56,796
And the whole idea was, as you turn on Highway 29

540
00:33:57,406 --> 00:34:00,728
to Raymond, you embrace the half-moon

541
00:34:01,177 --> 00:34:04,467
circle of the entrance wall that would take you

542
00:34:04,996 --> 00:34:08,507
into it, you'll have a variety of crystals of

543
00:34:08,555 --> 00:34:12,258
significant sizes attracting you to your

544
00:34:12,306 --> 00:34:14,662
destination and bringing a certain

545
00:34:15,576 --> 00:34:19,279
chakra alignment to your body. And I think

546
00:34:19,776 --> 00:34:22,886
it's going to be amazing because I think a winery needs to take you from

547
00:34:22,886 --> 00:34:26,284
your roots all the way to your vision, meaning your third eye,

548
00:34:27,214 --> 00:34:30,773
and allow all the senses in between to do this. Yes.

549
00:34:31,286 --> 00:34:33,915
And I'm excited to tell you that— That's going to be really something to watch

550
00:34:34,011 --> 00:34:37,858
and see. To watch and see, to watch and feel. feel. And we

551
00:34:37,955 --> 00:34:41,258
purposely made the road wide because I know

552
00:34:42,669 --> 00:34:46,437
yourself and your lovely wife will stop on the side of the road and you're

553
00:34:46,437 --> 00:34:49,756
going to say, I got to see this. What the hell is this? And you

554
00:34:49,756 --> 00:34:53,364
got to be like this, opening your hands like the priest at church, and you're

555
00:34:53,364 --> 00:34:56,523
going to say, I want to receive the energy I'm feeling.

556
00:34:57,357 --> 00:35:01,173
And I think it's very important that we take what I call geomancy,

557
00:35:01,991 --> 00:35:05,839
geobiology, and obviously The additional

558
00:35:05,839 --> 00:35:09,029
level of what we do here is using the golden rule

559
00:35:09,606 --> 00:35:13,293
to advantage, the golden ratio, or the divine

560
00:35:13,293 --> 00:35:16,883
proportion. So to do things according to

561
00:35:16,899 --> 00:35:20,683
certain measurement, like the Pantheon in Rome, like

562
00:35:20,683 --> 00:35:24,209
the Giza Egyptian, obviously, pyramids,

563
00:35:24,273 --> 00:35:27,736
like Chichen Itza or Ixmal,

564
00:35:28,762 --> 00:35:32,513
all those proportions that are really unique, like the Mona Lisa face

565
00:35:32,705 --> 00:35:36,072
is done in a certain way. Yes. Like the Dalí Last Supper is is

566
00:35:36,072 --> 00:35:39,414
designed according to the measurement of

567
00:35:39,526 --> 00:35:42,837
1.618033, the Fibonacci

568
00:35:43,303 --> 00:35:47,095
repetition. Yes. We even have barrels here in the JCB

569
00:35:47,095 --> 00:35:50,807
Phi that we're releasing this week that is right here,

570
00:35:50,855 --> 00:35:54,647
as you could see it over there. That is that barrel that

571
00:35:54,647 --> 00:35:58,214
is made respecting the divine

572
00:35:58,391 --> 00:36:01,187
proportion. The shape is different. Yeah, it's very different. So, Paul,

573
00:36:02,247 --> 00:36:05,919
I want to lead you to the thinking of something very important,

574
00:36:06,753 --> 00:36:10,008
and I think all the listeners need to really

575
00:36:10,841 --> 00:36:13,471
digest and take their time to think of it.

576
00:36:14,273 --> 00:36:17,416
Sustainability, organic, biodynamic,

577
00:36:17,817 --> 00:36:21,441
geomancy, understanding energy

578
00:36:21,970 --> 00:36:25,642
or feng shui of a site, orientation

579
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:29,715
and vibration, and the level of what you feel

580
00:36:30,405 --> 00:36:33,547
within a certain site. And often you would say heat,

581
00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:37,994
It's magical. There's a very high level of energy here besides

582
00:36:38,026 --> 00:36:41,728
the table, the orientation, the way we feel, the way

583
00:36:41,873 --> 00:36:45,587
we are. And I think it's very important. It's the

584
00:36:45,587 --> 00:36:49,291
predisposition of then opening your

585
00:36:49,291 --> 00:36:53,123
senses to wine. And all that, I believe, has

586
00:36:53,155 --> 00:36:55,537
to be taken into account as a whole

587
00:36:57,017 --> 00:37:00,505
because the world is much larger than we think. Yeah. So we

588
00:37:00,569 --> 00:37:03,362
just talked about, I think, all the very

589
00:37:04,117 --> 00:37:07,938
important phases of what surrounds us

590
00:37:08,773 --> 00:37:11,904
and what we need to take into account to create

591
00:37:12,241 --> 00:37:15,725
something that is magical. Okay, so you're the

592
00:37:15,741 --> 00:37:18,984
only guy that I think is going to

593
00:37:19,353 --> 00:37:22,741
get this subject because I've asked this question 1,000 times and

594
00:37:22,741 --> 00:37:26,474
it's just a conversation starter, usually. But

595
00:37:26,474 --> 00:37:30,217
now we're well into this. You don't get this

596
00:37:30,731 --> 00:37:34,121
growing pineapples. You don't get it growing apricots. You don't get it when you make

597
00:37:34,186 --> 00:37:37,743
plum wine. You don't get it when you make sake. But you

598
00:37:37,872 --> 00:37:40,612
get it when you make wines from grapes.

599
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,679
Noah landed the ark on Mount Ararat in Armenia, planted grapes, got drunk, and that's

600
00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:49,528
the end of the story, right? But what is

601
00:37:49,705 --> 00:37:53,193
this ethereal value that makes us want to pursue this,

602
00:37:53,373 --> 00:37:55,383
this dream that you're having in this way we're going

603
00:37:55,898 --> 00:37:59,705
exaggerate the value of a bottle of wine and the soil it comes

604
00:37:59,705 --> 00:38:03,320
from. What's this ethereal thing that allows us to

605
00:38:03,368 --> 00:38:06,019
sit down with our friends and our family and make

606
00:38:06,597 --> 00:38:10,276
conversation that we can't

607
00:38:10,276 --> 00:38:14,003
sell ourselves short on putting an inferior bottle of wine in front of?

608
00:38:14,131 --> 00:38:17,923
We must drink— like, it all boils down to life's too

609
00:38:17,923 --> 00:38:21,232
short to drink bad wine, right? But this is bigger than that. It's bigger than

610
00:38:21,232 --> 00:38:24,681
that. Well, I think we need to ask I'm gonna ask Thayne to serve you

611
00:38:24,681 --> 00:38:28,176
this wine. Okay, so let's do that. And I'll start the explanation here.

612
00:38:28,657 --> 00:38:31,575
Yeah, Thayne, if you could serve our friends these beautiful wines.

613
00:38:32,344 --> 00:38:35,294
So I'm gonna start and Thayne obviously

614
00:38:35,631 --> 00:38:39,061
continue, 'cause I speak always way too much.

615
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:43,694
But what I wanna say on this question is we

616
00:38:43,726 --> 00:38:47,077
are offered a divine,

617
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:50,732
miraculous, gift of gods,

618
00:38:51,198 --> 00:38:54,437
whichever god you believe in. You could be Muslim,

619
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:58,494
Jewish, Buddhist, Hinduist,

620
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,679
Catholic, Protestant, don't want to know. It's

621
00:39:02,968 --> 00:39:06,544
present everywhere. It's a gift of the most noble

622
00:39:07,218 --> 00:39:10,794
fruit that is offered to us that transforms itself. Wow.

623
00:39:11,243 --> 00:39:14,722
Just like a butterfly. So, I believe why wine

624
00:39:15,075 --> 00:39:18,908
is so phenomenal and inspirational and allows

625
00:39:19,004 --> 00:39:21,155
us to have within us

626
00:39:22,215 --> 00:39:25,362
multitudes of thoughts as we drink it because it's a gift

627
00:39:26,229 --> 00:39:29,472
of civilization. It's a product of culture.

628
00:39:30,179 --> 00:39:33,759
It is art, architecture, design,

629
00:39:34,129 --> 00:39:37,452
senses, emotion, personality,

630
00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:41,707
identity. It's everything at one. Wine

631
00:39:42,366 --> 00:39:46,206
for me is the catalyst of energy. It

632
00:39:46,238 --> 00:39:49,992
brings energy within your own self

633
00:39:50,572 --> 00:39:54,391
from the sense of observing to the sense of— Right.

634
00:39:54,601 --> 00:39:58,157
All the senses. Smelling to the sense of touching it with your

635
00:39:58,157 --> 00:40:01,427
mouth. These glasses, I have to say,

636
00:40:02,009 --> 00:40:05,125
are phenomenal for— The magic to the sense of listening

637
00:40:06,287 --> 00:40:10,128
and to the sense of allowing you, thanks to

638
00:40:10,261 --> 00:40:13,875
wine, to think, to reflect, to

639
00:40:13,875 --> 00:40:17,437
somehow, if you allow it to be, to bring you to

640
00:40:17,469 --> 00:40:20,887
another dimension and to inspire you. So—

641
00:40:21,705 --> 00:40:25,331
That's it. It's inspiration. It's true inspiration. True

642
00:40:25,331 --> 00:40:29,102
inspiration. So, Faye, maybe you wanna complete this, but

643
00:40:29,728 --> 00:40:33,418
this is really why I believe wine brings people

644
00:40:33,434 --> 00:40:37,092
together. And this is our big message. We're launching a great

645
00:40:37,125 --> 00:40:40,653
package, which will be called Unité. Because I don't

646
00:40:40,653 --> 00:40:44,339
believe in anything but we are one, irrelevant

647
00:40:44,403 --> 00:40:48,233
of our skin color, irrelevant of our religion, irrelevant

648
00:40:48,249 --> 00:40:51,438
if we French, American, African, or Chinese,

649
00:40:52,111 --> 00:40:55,764
we are all one. So wine is, as you

650
00:40:55,796 --> 00:40:59,049
just said, Paul, brings unity. Yes. And brings

651
00:40:59,081 --> 00:41:02,094
diversity, brings equality, brings all of us

652
00:41:02,767 --> 00:41:04,754
within this unbelievable

653
00:41:05,331 --> 00:41:09,033
vessel that is the glass, the expression of all our

654
00:41:09,033 --> 00:41:12,575
cultures. And I think it's fabulous

655
00:41:12,575 --> 00:41:15,685
because wine eventually can bring peace.

656
00:41:16,592 --> 00:41:20,396
It's fabulous. It's through the

657
00:41:20,396 --> 00:41:24,021
millennial it's done that. They found King Tut with his—

658
00:41:24,937 --> 00:41:28,601
we know what the best vintages of his era were because he was

659
00:41:28,778 --> 00:41:32,314
obviously buried with, as the king, right? He gets buried with the good stuff,

660
00:41:32,394 --> 00:41:35,729
right? It's through Millennial. And this is the part that,

661
00:41:36,323 --> 00:41:39,825
that I think the consumer learns

662
00:41:40,163 --> 00:41:43,570
or feels when they come here. And now what you're gonna build, they're gonna feel

663
00:41:43,570 --> 00:41:46,986
it even more. But our job is

664
00:41:47,421 --> 00:41:51,143
to create that feeling, to get that inspiration into the hands of

665
00:41:51,143 --> 00:41:54,486
the consumer. It's not with €1

666
00:41:54,923 --> 00:41:58,244
per liter wines that I have to deal with in my industry. It's with

667
00:41:58,244 --> 00:42:01,848
quality, Thought-stimulating, inspirational wine,

668
00:42:02,285 --> 00:42:05,014
right? And a sense of place, right? A sense of time and place. So what

669
00:42:05,014 --> 00:42:08,551
we're having right now, the Spring Mountain Cabernet, the 1981. Oh, Spring Mountain.

670
00:42:10,424 --> 00:42:13,993
Wine is really about bringing your own creation and

671
00:42:14,091 --> 00:42:17,644
sharing it with somebody else. It's unique

672
00:42:17,725 --> 00:42:21,416
everywhere that it's made in the world. It has its own

673
00:42:21,465 --> 00:42:24,972
markers. It has its own characters, style,

674
00:42:25,651 --> 00:42:29,191
flavors, aroma. It has its own energy no matter where it's from. Because this

675
00:42:31,546 --> 00:42:35,125
The nose is so complex. And so this whole concept for

676
00:42:35,141 --> 00:42:38,849
1881 really ties in with the whole conversation of

677
00:42:38,962 --> 00:42:42,737
place, because we really dive down into Napa

678
00:42:42,801 --> 00:42:46,063
Valley and we're 100% Cabernet,

679
00:42:46,529 --> 00:42:50,320
somewhat taking the winemaker myself out of it, stepping back

680
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,142
a bit and making all these Cabs in the same way.

681
00:42:55,242 --> 00:42:59,061
And any differences that you pick up are truly that terroir, that

682
00:42:59,254 --> 00:43:01,091
place, the soil, the microclimates, really

683
00:43:03,614 --> 00:43:07,381
are all this driving that difference in the Cabernet, just

684
00:43:07,381 --> 00:43:11,228
perpetuating the story of uniqueness in the

685
00:43:11,228 --> 00:43:14,754
valley. The length of this finish is phenomenal. Right?

686
00:43:15,219 --> 00:43:17,319
And so Spring

687
00:43:17,319 --> 00:43:20,814
Mountain, just on the other side, right

688
00:43:20,926 --> 00:43:24,421
behind us right now, Spring Mountain,

689
00:43:24,998 --> 00:43:28,572
it's up above the valley floor, 800 feet and up. It

690
00:43:29,342 --> 00:43:33,189
gives you that wonderful resinous character that you can

691
00:43:33,189 --> 00:43:36,956
even see it, just you see the trees and you see the vineyards up top

692
00:43:37,420 --> 00:43:40,850
and that rich mineral-rich soils up there really

693
00:43:41,924 --> 00:43:45,322
pour into this glass. And you can taste that

694
00:43:45,370 --> 00:43:49,184
place as you taste these wines. And Thain is

695
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,934
really demonstrating as well, Paul, what is so

696
00:43:52,966 --> 00:43:56,781
important that you alluded to earlier. The world

697
00:43:56,829 --> 00:44:00,659
is a fabulous place. Vines can probably go everywhere.

698
00:44:00,755 --> 00:44:04,410
I had a school teacher on viticulture who used to say, look around

699
00:44:05,067 --> 00:44:08,432
Wherever you are in the world, it's most likely vine. Mm-hmm. We just

700
00:44:09,090 --> 00:44:12,423
prune it, cultivate it differently. And

701
00:44:12,936 --> 00:44:16,430
what Thayne is mentioning here in Napa Valley with 1881 is

702
00:44:16,607 --> 00:44:20,261
magic in terms of hilltop, mountaintop.

703
00:44:21,046 --> 00:44:24,652
So, in many ways, we could have thought the philosophy in Napa

704
00:44:24,652 --> 00:44:28,323
Valley was different. It's just the valley floor and maybe a

705
00:44:28,323 --> 00:44:32,105
few little hillsides. But we have, like in the South of France,

706
00:44:32,169 --> 00:44:35,861
the amphitheater of wine. Hilltop, or

707
00:44:35,861 --> 00:44:39,459
mountaintop, as we love to call it, hillside, and

708
00:44:39,700 --> 00:44:43,329
unbelievable valley floor. Yeah. For wine. And you could see

709
00:44:43,394 --> 00:44:46,943
here this unbelievable elegance and

710
00:44:46,943 --> 00:44:50,332
depth in this wine. Who would've thought

711
00:44:50,878 --> 00:44:54,219
that Spring Mountain, which is surrounded, hence the name,

712
00:44:54,653 --> 00:44:58,186
with amazing water springs, would be

713
00:44:58,588 --> 00:45:01,892
so phenomenal for wine? and you could see the

714
00:45:02,116 --> 00:45:04,665
richness, the depth of this

715
00:45:05,483 --> 00:45:09,170
amazing wine. The complexity is amazing. Oh. And here's what, here's what,

716
00:45:09,394 --> 00:45:12,841
what it's telling me now. I taste a lot of wine,

717
00:45:12,857 --> 00:45:16,576
obviously, somewhere north of 100,000, 300 a month. I

718
00:45:16,624 --> 00:45:20,375
get a lot of Napa Cabernet. Yeah. And it's

719
00:45:20,375 --> 00:45:23,853
sort of almost become, I'm not gonna say generic because it's very

720
00:45:23,853 --> 00:45:27,332
special, but there's nothing interesting with some of the things.

721
00:45:27,540 --> 00:45:31,355
There's no expression. It's the typical, you know, a little bit of

722
00:45:31,355 --> 00:45:34,612
cassis, camphor, some good weight, nice balance,

723
00:45:35,222 --> 00:45:38,511
and we're done with it. But this is showing so much more with the complexity,

724
00:45:38,575 --> 00:45:42,184
the spiciness, the minerality, the length of the finish is phenomenal.

725
00:45:42,842 --> 00:45:46,628
And that's what you want. To elevate, to elevate past the ubiquitous,

726
00:45:46,693 --> 00:45:50,511
right? To have something that really has its own

727
00:45:50,623 --> 00:45:54,281
stamp and flavor to it. And

728
00:45:54,457 --> 00:45:57,457
you know, when we think about wine,

729
00:45:59,096 --> 00:46:02,327
Paul, in a deep sense.

730
00:46:04,476 --> 00:46:07,968
What I had people do specifically

731
00:46:08,097 --> 00:46:11,301
from outside of Europe in

732
00:46:11,737 --> 00:46:15,135
Burgundy is I had them taste in our vineyard the

733
00:46:15,135 --> 00:46:18,518
rocks. I literally had them— Lick

734
00:46:18,518 --> 00:46:21,524
the dirt? Well, my chest first.

735
00:46:24,980 --> 00:46:28,509
But it's amazing when you correlate at Raymond

736
00:46:28,557 --> 00:46:32,359
Vineyards where we are here. Yeah. And 1881, we

737
00:46:32,407 --> 00:46:35,439
have 16 soil profiles.

738
00:46:36,594 --> 00:46:40,332
So, Paul— 16? Just different soils of Napa Valley.

739
00:46:40,380 --> 00:46:43,942
So you look at Oakville and then you look at Rutherford,

740
00:46:44,134 --> 00:46:47,904
2 different soil compositions, and you taste it

741
00:46:47,904 --> 00:46:51,321
not with someone like you who tastes and is an expert on

742
00:46:51,514 --> 00:46:55,347
wine, but with someone who is learning about wine. And you

743
00:46:55,347 --> 00:46:59,002
know exactly what I'm gonna say. Wine is made in the soil, in the roots,

744
00:46:59,451 --> 00:47:02,930
in the unseen. You taste someone a

745
00:47:02,978 --> 00:47:06,312
Spring Mountain soil profile versus St. Helena, Oakville,

746
00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:10,480
or Rutherford, and you have them look at the soil.

747
00:47:11,939 --> 00:47:15,754
And I had probably hundreds of people who look at me

748
00:47:15,882 --> 00:47:19,248
deep in the eye and say, I understand. Mm-hmm.

749
00:47:19,713 --> 00:47:23,464
So the visual of the correlation of the soil with the taste of the wine

750
00:47:23,721 --> 00:47:27,265
allows you to understand the complexity and the

751
00:47:27,265 --> 00:47:30,669
diversity and the uniqueness of what wine is about.

752
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,309
And I think that's what thing you just talked about, which

753
00:47:35,374 --> 00:47:38,697
is so cool. And this is why you're in Napa Valley as well.

754
00:47:39,372 --> 00:47:43,065
You know, not Oklahoma, you mean? Well, okay. Oklahoma, the beef is the best,

755
00:47:43,177 --> 00:47:46,870
isn't it? Yeah. I'm a huge fan of the cattle. Yes. You

756
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:50,467
know, sales, but it's so cool to be able to

757
00:47:50,467 --> 00:47:53,908
show someone You know, I,

758
00:47:54,278 --> 00:47:57,920
Paul, I have to do that a lot because I'm obviously from Europe. So

759
00:47:58,581 --> 00:48:02,288
a lot of the people, including close friends of mine, think

760
00:48:02,304 --> 00:48:05,899
Napa is one dimension, or it's that great wine at $150.

761
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,204
And when they come here, they're blown away. It's only

762
00:48:10,268 --> 00:48:13,356
47,000 acres of planted vineyards.

763
00:48:13,987 --> 00:48:17,647
It's only this, it's only that. And then they start to

764
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,930
taste the different AVA. And they say,

765
00:48:21,588 --> 00:48:24,874
I cannot believe it. I never thought under such a— such

766
00:48:24,970 --> 00:48:28,721
disbelief, there's such diversity. And

767
00:48:28,721 --> 00:48:32,151
you come from like the most diverse place in the world when it comes to

768
00:48:32,151 --> 00:48:35,790
wine, like across the street. Yes. You know, things change, right? And here we are.

769
00:48:35,854 --> 00:48:38,547
And I, so I'm gonna get a little wine geeky, just a little wine geeky.

770
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:42,715
There are some thoughts of saying, well, you know, Highway 29

771
00:48:42,812 --> 00:48:46,643
here kind of separates the 2 alluvial fans coming off both

772
00:48:46,659 --> 00:48:50,025
sides of the mountain. And maybe there ought to be an East Rutherford and a

773
00:48:50,025 --> 00:48:52,401
West Rutherford and East Oakville and West Oakville.

774
00:48:52,930 --> 00:48:56,542
As a wine geek guy, you know, just for the people that are

775
00:48:56,542 --> 00:49:00,122
listening that wanna know this, is there validity to that? You think that what does—

776
00:49:00,219 --> 00:49:04,056
I'll start on this one because I'm the oldest and I come

777
00:49:04,072 --> 00:49:07,748
from the oldest place in the world of wine. Right. Again, for sure. So

778
00:49:08,583 --> 00:49:11,472
I would like to tell you, Paul, that so many people have asked me, why

779
00:49:11,472 --> 00:49:14,956
do you spend so much time in the, in the US? My

780
00:49:15,004 --> 00:49:18,585
interest in the US is to create the map of the future. I feel like

781
00:49:18,585 --> 00:49:21,948
a pioneer, like the monks of Burgundy that you

782
00:49:21,964 --> 00:49:25,490
alluded to from the 11th, 12th century that

783
00:49:25,538 --> 00:49:29,307
created the beginning of a map that we kept improving and refining

784
00:49:29,340 --> 00:49:32,997
over the last, you know, 1,000 years. Mm-hmm.

785
00:49:33,450 --> 00:49:37,070
So, I'm excited about what you just asked. I really

786
00:49:37,102 --> 00:49:40,861
believe it will get there, and I will encourage it because

787
00:49:40,893 --> 00:49:44,391
even though here we have 300-acre estates, with another

788
00:49:44,424 --> 00:49:48,094
amazing vineyards across the street and many others all over the place.

789
00:49:49,297 --> 00:49:52,759
There's enormous diversity into all our blocks.

790
00:49:53,465 --> 00:49:56,815
We could be in Rutherford, in Santa Elena. There's diversity, as you said,

791
00:49:57,472 --> 00:50:00,967
East Rutherford, West Rutherford, hillside. Which

792
00:50:01,015 --> 00:50:04,782
side of it are you on? The sunset side, on the sunrise side?

793
00:50:05,006 --> 00:50:08,517
Should matter. It should matter. It matters immensely, as you said. So

794
00:50:09,495 --> 00:50:12,851
I believe I believe we haven't— we've barely started.

795
00:50:13,590 --> 00:50:17,284
And again, I represent Burgundy all my

796
00:50:17,284 --> 00:50:20,914
life. This is where I'm from. I'm a product of Burgundy.

797
00:50:20,995 --> 00:50:22,649
Yeah, but you're growing Cabernet. Well,

798
00:50:23,067 --> 00:50:26,215
738 different

799
00:50:27,098 --> 00:50:30,295
appellations in Burgundy today, from Lieu-dit to

800
00:50:30,311 --> 00:50:34,102
Vignoble Designé. That's right. So you

801
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:36,977
take Burgundy at large, Chablis, Chablis, Côte Chalonnaise,

802
00:50:37,749 --> 00:50:40,920
southern Burgundy, Mâconnais, as you said, Côte de Nuits, Côte de Beaune,

803
00:50:41,741 --> 00:50:45,460
include Chablis, of course, and Meulemes, which is very old, fabulous

804
00:50:45,460 --> 00:50:49,199
area north of Dijon, at the end of the Vix,

805
00:50:50,053 --> 00:50:52,986
you know, famous vase that represents the Roman

806
00:50:54,648 --> 00:50:58,441
in the 3rd century making wine there. We have a very

807
00:50:58,441 --> 00:51:02,007
big diversity. And I believe you're gonna tell me, Jean-Charles,

808
00:51:02,086 --> 00:51:05,517
Okay, push it. I'm gonna push it. Clos Vougeot,

809
00:51:05,773 --> 00:51:09,558
140 acres, 82 owners. I venture to

810
00:51:09,558 --> 00:51:12,941
say in the Clos Vougeot that I know by heart, I live there, I was

811
00:51:13,005 --> 00:51:16,661
born there. I tried so much Clos Vougeot. Yeah. Every

812
00:51:16,757 --> 00:51:20,108
producer. I would tell you that within that small,

813
00:51:20,285 --> 00:51:23,973
tiny space surrounded by a wall, not to be

814
00:51:24,053 --> 00:51:27,869
extra geeky, but I could be even more geeky than that. Well, it's—

815
00:51:27,997 --> 00:51:29,889
You would, you would imagine probably

816
00:51:29,970 --> 00:51:33,548
probably 15 different styles of

817
00:51:33,612 --> 00:51:36,597
wine, really strongly different. Why?

818
00:51:37,527 --> 00:51:41,330
We used to say that what surrounds the château goes to the Pope,

819
00:51:41,635 --> 00:51:45,374
the most important man. That's right. Of course. Number 2 circle

820
00:51:46,834 --> 00:51:50,476
goes to the King of France. Of course, you want to

821
00:51:50,541 --> 00:51:53,862
please him as well. Clovis. Exactly. And the

822
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:57,489
third remains to the monks who really makes things happen. So

823
00:51:58,483 --> 00:52:02,218
They've identified those 3 circles as early as the 16th, 17th

824
00:52:02,250 --> 00:52:06,033
century, and we've identified further and further.

825
00:52:06,113 --> 00:52:09,832
So I feel your question not only is a very astute

826
00:52:09,928 --> 00:52:13,583
one, it's a work in progress. I would like to quote my

827
00:52:13,695 --> 00:52:17,350
good friend, Antonio Galloni, that I

828
00:52:17,382 --> 00:52:21,101
interviewed on the JCB Live, similar to you. Yes. And he

829
00:52:21,165 --> 00:52:24,756
showed us on this live show all the different maps that he's

830
00:52:24,756 --> 00:52:28,219
creating, and he shows you how the

831
00:52:28,299 --> 00:52:31,572
importance of place is and matters.

832
00:52:32,476 --> 00:52:36,169
So I believe, Paul, as often,

833
00:52:36,363 --> 00:52:39,151
we've done the obvious. We just started.

834
00:52:40,192 --> 00:52:43,524
We are on our way, but there's so much more to do. Well, we'd like

835
00:52:43,524 --> 00:52:46,592
to be in tow. We'd like to be right there, right

836
00:52:46,592 --> 00:52:50,311
behind you, leading the pack,

837
00:52:50,376 --> 00:52:54,047
see what's going on. 'Cause I think you're right on

838
00:52:54,321 --> 00:52:58,085
with what's happening. We need to educate the consumer. We need to tell 'em

839
00:52:58,085 --> 00:53:01,873
these stories. We need them to understand the value of what you're

840
00:53:01,954 --> 00:53:04,965
doing. Thank you. And that's the critical thing. And we are so

841
00:53:06,263 --> 00:53:09,756
honored to be with you. Well, thank you. And to do

842
00:53:09,804 --> 00:53:13,392
things together. And I cannot believe that,

843
00:53:14,594 --> 00:53:17,958
you know, all the audience you're building and the great

844
00:53:17,958 --> 00:53:21,435
podcasts you're doing and the interest. You are

845
00:53:21,884 --> 00:53:25,104
a blessing to the wine world because you, as a great palate

846
00:53:26,049 --> 00:53:29,558
and as a great historian, because you love history, you love stories,

847
00:53:30,295 --> 00:53:33,858
as a great disciple the Egyptian. That's right. Is where we come

848
00:53:33,922 --> 00:53:37,679
from. That's right. Let's not forget that

849
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,549
this is really the beginning of time, and this is the importance of time.

850
00:53:42,432 --> 00:53:45,964
To where we going, we need all of

851
00:53:45,964 --> 00:53:49,432
us to bring to people the love of

852
00:53:49,561 --> 00:53:53,238
wine. With wine— Cheers. Comes a smile. With wine

853
00:53:53,334 --> 00:53:56,385
comes great food. With wine comes great civilization.

854
00:53:57,299 --> 00:54:00,345
And I want to toast to yours. Not too long ago, I was in

855
00:54:00,442 --> 00:54:02,940
Alexandria. Oh, wow. You know, in that

856
00:54:03,037 --> 00:54:06,713
1,000-hectare incredible vineyard south of

857
00:54:06,810 --> 00:54:10,515
Cairo, where the Egyptians have made

858
00:54:10,854 --> 00:54:14,381
honey wines to dessert wines to

859
00:54:14,429 --> 00:54:18,132
phenomenal wines all along. And I think, Paul, it's

860
00:54:18,132 --> 00:54:21,489
very important as we have a cheer, to cheer to

861
00:54:21,489 --> 00:54:25,249
civilization, to cheer to history, to cheer to what we've

862
00:54:25,345 --> 00:54:29,138
learned, all the way up to where we are today.

863
00:54:29,234 --> 00:54:32,445
Because without a great past, there's no good present,

864
00:54:33,151 --> 00:54:36,570
and there's certainly no great future. And here's to your path because it's

865
00:54:36,619 --> 00:54:40,311
inspirational, it's exciting. Can't wait to see the next, the next

866
00:54:40,311 --> 00:54:43,907
generation of Jean-Charles Boisset. Thank you so much.

867
00:54:44,003 --> 00:54:45,480
Thank you, Paul.