Is Champagne Overrated? Why French Winemakers Are Betting on California’s Anderson Valley: Arnaud Weyrich

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Champagne as a whole, I mean, sparkling wine, there's something less

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intimidating than, for example, red wines, where you have to know your

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appellation, you have to know more your chateaus and all your terroir

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versus champagne has a little bit of that feeling of like it is a fun

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product. Right. I don't have to know all about it, but

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what I like is the. Either the look of the bottle, I

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just like the sound of it in the bottle. I like the fact of enjoying

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it with friends because it's. You said camaraderie, exchange.

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Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks

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with Paul K. Hey,

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welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio today in beautiful

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Southern California having a conversation with Arnaud. I'm going to say it, I'm going to

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say it. Which way should I say it? The German way, The French, the, the

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English way. Remember? Yes.

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Are you the director of the rotor Estate in Anderson Valley? Is that what you

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call it? Right. I would not call myself the director, but no, general manager.

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I'm the. Yeah. Under gm. Yep. It's

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interesting because in, in France it would have been the director. Right?

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There's. But in America we have different nomenclature for different

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positions. But like somebody at, in France that

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runs the entire winery, overlooks the winemaking, overlooks the administration.

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So in champagne, you have that very specific title. It's called Chef the

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Cav, you know, the master of the setter,

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which is very Champagne in its meaning. Meaning you're really in

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charge of everything that happens, you know, in the winery, but also, you know, sometimes

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it expands into the vineyard. So that's very much the, the style of the. The

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house of Louis Rodrier and Rodriguez in general is like the chef de cavre

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has that master control over everything. Is that where you started?

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Actually, I did not start, you know, in, in Champagne. I.

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I'm an alumni of the same school as

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Jean Baptiste Le Cayon and also Jean Claude

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Rousseau also went to Montpellier. So that's the connection.

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And my predecessor at Rotter Estate was also an alumni

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of that school and he was a professor. So he

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would always take interns from that school.

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Really kind of give a chance to the younger generation

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to start in the business. And I was one of those interns

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taking my backpack and going to California to discover the wine World. In

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1993, I made my first

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steps, know, into the Anderson Valley in California. So that's how you got started.

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I. I find that personally, really fascinating because

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I've had a lot of French winemakers on the show, you know,

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Mr. Guillaume from Tanger,

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he's up in Willamette Valley. You know, it's just

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to have the culture, the French culture, to grow up in the French culture, Alsatian

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culture in your case, and come to America and then spend,

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you know, a lifetime here making wine. I find that a fascinating

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transition. Was that hard you to do or you was, it was sort of

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a explorative thing in the beginning or you knew you were coming

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here to make one? No, I, I, I, quite frankly, I didn't know I was

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going to stay. I, I, actually I, I had to come back to France.

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Just know because for usual know you, you need to get your paperwork straight. So

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it's not always as easy. We don't watch you guys here unless you're. Yeah, legit.

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Okay. So in 93 I was supposed to stay just know, six months

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and then take an internship and then go back. I was supposed to go to

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Germany after that. I, I used to speak German, which I don't anymore. Now I

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speak Spanish. You. So I had to learn. Wow. The short story

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is like, yeah, it was supposed to be just a short discovery of

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California in 93. And if you

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remember in those late 80s, the felloxera crisis was

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taking a foothold in Napa and basically the vineyards were

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starting to fail. And the reason was the philoxera was actually spreading

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across those vineyards. And when I came in in 93, it was part

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of my background. It's like my viticulture background

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from my Master's of science. It's like, okay, as an intern, let's go

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out in the vineyard and try to find if

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we have phylloxera in the vineyard. And that's how it got started because

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I found that we had phylloxera in the vineyard and we had to start the

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whole basically plan to how to mitigate the

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spread of the Fluxora and start replanting. So my six month internship

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ended up a two year internship. Exactly. It

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got expanded until I had to make a choice

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to either stay or, or leave. Well, so you didn't come

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here to make wine then. You came here as a master of science student

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to help with understand philoxra and the vineyard disease

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or. Yeah, exactly. So it was really. No, it was really to discover the, the

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world in the 90s, obviously the new world had already

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been discovered. Right. There was a lot of winers that made that move to the,

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to the gold rush of the winemaking to California. That's over.

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Yeah, that's over exactly. But back in the 90s, it was, it was still happening.

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So I think it was discovering, you know, having that open

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mindedness to discover what was happening

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outside of France. I think that was my, you know,

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that's kind of the intrigue for me. My father's an immigrant, came from

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Cairo seeking a different life,

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fleeing not oppression, but fleeing a difficult political situation.

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And culturally it's so different.

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And you come from. And I found this with many of the representatives

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that sell me wine, that sold me wine over the years that were from France,

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particularly the women that were leaving to find something new to

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do and to escape the. I think that

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not the patriarch society, but to escape the embedded

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society, the stoic, we're here,

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this is our history, this is who we are to come to really what would

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be new world. Even today, America has this sort of

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mystique about its newness. I think I

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took the opportunity. So I left in 1995, went back to

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France and worked for a total different company for five years.

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But I kept the connection with the family. So Jean Clauzo and I were

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exchanging, you know, our usual New Year's

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Christmas cards. Hey, Jean Claude, how are you? Best wishes for the New year. And

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one year he replied to me like, you know, thanks for your best wishes, but

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by the way, what are you doing right now? And I was like, well, I'm

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doing this and quite frankly, I would like to maybe move on or

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go back to the winemaking. And that's what he said. Well, no, your predecessor,

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Michel Salg, is actually trying to retire from being the

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Salah master, sorry, the chef de cave at

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the winemaker at Holodo Estates. Would you be interested at,

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you know, applying for the job? And I say, yes, I'm going to do this.

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Wow, that's really great. And I came back in 2000 and

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the opportunity was I was in my 30s and I

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don't think I would ever had such an opportunity in

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Champagne to take over the reign of something

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as large as interesting as

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taking over Rotary State. Because in your 30s in France you're

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still considered as like you have not made enough proof.

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Yeah, you're not an experienced enough. Exactly. Wise enough.

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But this is California, this is America. And then Rodri said it was a startup.

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It was a startup that Jean Claude had really created

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from scratch in California. So there's also that very

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bold, interesting startup feeling

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mentalities like you needed somebody that was willing, wanted

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and that energy. And we worked together in the 90s on

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that philoxera crisis. So I was not totally

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an unknown person to him either. I correct myself. It

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was Monsieur Gwambas with Louis Jadot, not Petit Anger up in the

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Wamba Valley. But why the Anderson

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Valley? I frankly have never been to the Anderson Valley to taste

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wine as part of my career. I don't know why. And I need

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now having this conversation. We'll come and see you. But

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what is it about the Anderson Valley? Is it. We mentioned early

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off camera that it doesn't have limestone. So it's not a champagne

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clone, but they make sparkling wine.

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Stromsburg's famous for going to China in 1968. Oh,

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Richard Nixon. Sparkling wine from Napa Valley. What is it about the Anderson Valley that

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was so attractive to the French to do this? So, Paul, you

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officially invited to come to the Anderson Valley and visit. That's the end of the

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podcast. Thank you. It's officially. It's on camera. So, you know

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the reason. There was multiple reason of why they picked the

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Anderson Valley. First of all, in fact, except if you go in the central coast,

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there's not really a lot of limestone in California if you

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want to establish a vineyard that would be similar. But what the fandom was trying

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to do is trying to find something where you could get something as close

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as champagne as possible in terms of how you get to the

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wine itself. So if you look at what champagne is

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about, it's inland, it's far away from the Ocean,

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but it's a 46 north latitude and

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Anderson Valley is 39. So how does that work? It's because you're close to the

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Pacific Ocean. So north coast of California, Mendocino

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County. Anderson Valley is within the Mendocino County. The ocean is

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pretty cold, so that fog is that marine layer that comes in

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every day, cools down the grapes. And I think there's one

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number that caught Jean Claude's eyes, that the average

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yearly temperature in the Anderson Valley is about 53 Fahrenheit versus

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champagne is about 51 Fahrenheit. And those numbers date from about

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30 years ago. So global warming, I'm pretty sure all of those numbers crept

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up a little bit. So it means you wear. Yes, Anderson

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Valley is a tad warmer than a

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Champagne, but it's cool enough that you can get

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that ripening length that Pinot Noir and

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Chardonnay actually can thrive to make a nice

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crisp, acid driven base wine from which you can make

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a meto champenoise sparkling wine. And I think

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that's what they wanted to do. And back then. So that was in the 80s,

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there were a Couple of wineries already established. Namely, it could have only

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been a couple. I mean. Right. But he tasted wine from them, and he actually

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liked the style. He said, like, this is something that I like as a style.

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So Navajo Vineyards had been making wine since the seventies in the

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Anderson Valley, and he

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happened to taste some of the wine they made and said, like, well, if they

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can do this, very likely then we'll be able to grow the grapes to

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make something that would work for sparkling wine. You know, that's interesting

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because up until maybe

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it was the 90s, maybe it was the early 2000s, I mean, wine still had

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this boutique feel about it. Of course, there were the gallows around and the.

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The large houses still, but there was still this uniqueness. Certainly the judgment of Paris

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had a lot to do with that of. Of wine. Clearly, in the

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Anderson Valley in the 70s, 80s, 90s, even 2000s, it

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was driven by the boutique houses

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for the passion about wine. Not to try and make as

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much as possible and sell it for as cheap as possible. It still

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feels like that there. And is that part of the rotors attraction to the

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area? That's still that. I say hometown,

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but boutique champagne house. So there's a very

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hippie feel to the Anderson Valley in Minnesota County. And Jean

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Claude was definitely not a hippie, but a French hippie. I don't know.

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I would not describe in that way. But no, he. He had a bold

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vision, maybe a little rebellious. Yeah. And. And he

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didn't mind going to the Anderson Valley because mainstream other

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wineries went to Napa because it felt established and

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known. And I don't think he wanted to do something the same as the

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others. Anderson Valley felt a departure, and he

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told me, and I think he must have said that to other people as well.

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It's like, if he had done it for the money, he would. He should have

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had chosen Napa. Yeah. But because of the quality

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of the product, he really thinks he made the right choice to go to Innocent

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Valley because it was difficult at first. It was a not

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very known appellation. In fact, when he bought the land in

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1982, Anderson Valley didn't exist as a navy. It got actually

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established as a Navy in 1983. So the year. The year

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later. So he. He really believed that he made the right

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choice for the quality of what could be

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made in place. So he didn't make it for the money. Even though

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at some point, you know, he must have no scratches. Like, why did I do

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this? Well, of course, it takes anything does that right it takes time.

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It was really the startup feeling. There was really no starting something from scratch and

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really establishing it. It took some time. It took 10 years to really

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establish Rotary State. As the new

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kid on the block that knows how to make method

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trompenoise in a fantastic way from the

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Anderson Valley, I would think that anybody that got into the wine business

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then and soon after is scratching their head

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today as to why they did this unless they got this established brand

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going on. Let's go back for a little bit. I want, I want, I want

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to set the stage for the listeners a little bit because

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my father, there he is in the picture. There was. We always talked about the

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romance of the French culture and the French wine. He spoke French

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in champagne. The district seems to be

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able to grab

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this romanticism, romanticism about wine despite

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the volumes. In other words, we're going to talk about it now.

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I was looking at a list of champagne

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makers and the volumes of wine they make and it

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was by supplier so it wasn't as granular as necessarily the

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house. But I mean let's, let's put on the table, you've

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got something like V Clicot, which is. There's the book there, Madame Tlar

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Mazzio's book. It's an interesting story,

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25 million bottles. But from the

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branding standpoint, something like that, people

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just think this is, I'm drinking champagne, I'm drinking the

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concept of champagne, not drinking the dream. Right? Yeah, the dream of

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champagne but in reality is Rotor Estate Titanjay,

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you know, some of the other smaller houses and that, that small. But there's. They're

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certainly family driven and more boutique ish. How does that happen? Do we know?

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How do you combat that? How do you look at a Rotor Estate

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from Anderson Valley and say, look, we've got

237
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it also and it's a little more

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romantic. It, it, the, that's the. I'm

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French, so I'm, I'm. I'm so amazed at how there were

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able to create champagne as such a

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powerful brand. And it's the work of generations of

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wineries and winemakers of

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the fantastic marketing at creating that dream about

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the brand as a luxury product

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that a must have. So it's extremely powerful.

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It vehicles the idea that if you want to have something

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exceptional on a fantastic day of your life, your wedding, your anniversary,

248
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something, it has to be champagne. And it worked because now in the imaginary

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of people, this is what you must have. So in

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my humble way, you know, I am making a sparkling wine. So not champagne.

251
00:15:33,390 --> 00:15:36,670
I'm not in the region of Champagne, but I'm using all of the tools of

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the trade. That would be like, it looks like Champagne, feels like Champagne, but it

253
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is a sparkling wine from California. But you're. You're fighting, you're. You're up

254
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against them with the Lemur tage, which got 100 points, which is unbelievable wine. And

255
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we discussed it when we were tasting the wines just now, which is.

256
00:15:52,010 --> 00:15:55,850
I sense this structure of the wine, and that's all the wines I've

257
00:15:55,850 --> 00:15:59,410
tasted. My 100,000 wines. Kind of where I figured out where my

258
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palate is, is how things are structured, is less about the flavors, but more

259
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about how that feels in your mouth. And the transitions

260
00:16:06,810 --> 00:16:10,530
was very much French. Yes. The terroir is very

261
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much Anderson Valley. And this is a virtual DNA. We owned by

262
00:16:14,290 --> 00:16:18,090
a French family. My predecessor and myself are both no French winemakers. So there

263
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is a little bit of that touch that you want to bring as the

264
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understanding of how to make the wine, and I might have

265
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said that also earlier, is that

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when California. And actually the way to make the wine, how to select the

267
00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:36,700
lots of wine, is to actually make it not too Californian. So that's very interesting.

268
00:16:36,780 --> 00:16:40,620
I'm in California. I'm trying to make something not Californian. The idea

269
00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:44,140
is like to make something very classic. There would be no traditional

270
00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:47,900
method in spirit in the making that if you were to taste

271
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:51,480
blind, you would not be able to find if it's actually, actually

272
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,360
from Champagne or not. And I think that was the point from the

273
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,720
beginning. It says rotter on the label. So it's that kind of the promise of

274
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you buying something from a known label, a known family,

275
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that embodies and shows

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a taste profile. How much intervention or

277
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,320
daily intervention, weekly, monthly, does the French

278
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,880
counterpart have with them? No, it's not daily, but we're in contact

279
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,800
on a regular basis, my predecessors or myself

280
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,780
with the winemaking team. Team at Roederer. Why? Because again,

281
00:17:25,780 --> 00:17:29,540
it says Rotor on the label. So we have to be held to the

282
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:33,340
standard of what the Rotor family expects of

283
00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:37,140
a wine. So Jean Baptiste, the chef de Cavill, comes once

284
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or twice a year. We taste together. I call that

285
00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:44,860
my annual booster shot of the house style.

286
00:17:44,860 --> 00:17:48,700
Right. Because if you're in Champagne, that would make sense. Everybody

287
00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:51,940
around you, dreams, thinks,

288
00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:55,750
speaks Champagne all the time. Because Champagne is a very large

289
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:59,590
region. If you're in Edison Valley, basically, you're very few people

290
00:17:59,670 --> 00:18:03,430
around you that actually are in the same project

291
00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:06,790
of making sparkling wines. That's a very

292
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:10,870
compelling Part of what we do is that

293
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:15,070
camaraderie, the exchange from what we get to have these

294
00:18:15,070 --> 00:18:18,710
conversations like we are right now. And I try to

295
00:18:18,790 --> 00:18:21,670
use this podcast to invite people into that

296
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feeling, because I was thinking about yesterday, about

297
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the consumer. Wine's consumer driven. Without the consumer, we have

298
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nothing. And so we have to market, then we have to brand. And you've got

299
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,600
25 million bottles of Clicko coming, being manufactured.

300
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,680
But it's not to take away from the idea that this is

301
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a wonderful trade and you as a consumer

302
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,990
can digest as much as you want. You

303
00:18:48,990 --> 00:18:52,310
can decide that you want to learn about l' Ouxlicot and go that you can

304
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:55,950
decide you're going to go up to Anderson Valley and taste wine at Rotor

305
00:18:55,950 --> 00:18:58,630
Estate, or you can just say, I really like this

306
00:18:59,510 --> 00:19:03,030
and leave it at that. Right. And I want people to

307
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:07,310
feel what, what you feel. I think champagne

308
00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:10,470
as a whole, I mean, sparkling wine, there's something less

309
00:19:10,550 --> 00:19:14,350
intimidating than, for example, red wines, where you have to know your

310
00:19:14,350 --> 00:19:18,030
appellation, you have to know more your chateaus and all your terroir

311
00:19:18,030 --> 00:19:21,650
versus champagne has a little. That feeling of, like, it is a fun product.

312
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:25,490
Right. I don't have to know all about it, but what I

313
00:19:25,490 --> 00:19:29,290
like is the. Either the look of the bottle. I just like

314
00:19:29,290 --> 00:19:32,730
the sound of holding the bottle. I like the fact of enjoying it with friends.

315
00:19:32,730 --> 00:19:36,490
Because it's. You said camaraderie, exchange. Sometimes I

316
00:19:36,490 --> 00:19:40,330
say the best food pairing you can have with a bottle of. Of sparkling

317
00:19:40,330 --> 00:19:43,890
wine and champagne is friends. Just bring friends over and have a bottle of no.

318
00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:47,700
With them. That's. That's, That's a good way to exchange a good. Do you

319
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:51,140
think we should drink champagne every day? I would think so.

320
00:19:51,380 --> 00:19:55,140
Maybe the surgeon general would not accept that marking on the back of

321
00:19:55,140 --> 00:19:58,820
the label, but. Right. That's right. Let's go.

322
00:19:58,820 --> 00:20:02,660
Let's go to the practicality of it all. Champagne

323
00:20:02,660 --> 00:20:05,700
has suffered in this last few years with

324
00:20:05,780 --> 00:20:06,580
consumption.

325
00:20:09,540 --> 00:20:13,260
The alcohol trade in general. Wine is down. Talk

326
00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:16,940
to restaurant tours here in Los Angeles. Some of their bottle sales are off

327
00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:20,180
50%. How is the region

328
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:24,340
and is that a. Is that affecting Anderson Valley, the Rotors brand?

329
00:20:24,340 --> 00:20:28,140
And then how is the region dealing with this? Yeah. So overall,

330
00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:30,980
nobody's spared. No. By the, that move of,

331
00:20:31,780 --> 00:20:35,460
of, you know, the healthy move, which I, I totally agree. And I would

332
00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:39,220
think I'm, I'm part of it. You know, we all pay attention to what we

333
00:20:39,220 --> 00:20:42,780
eat and drink every day. And

334
00:20:42,780 --> 00:20:45,500
obviously, you know, we are impacted. Our sales are down.

335
00:20:47,740 --> 00:20:51,580
Obviously, you know, we are not, you know, this is not a

336
00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:54,620
product with a high percent of alcohol in the wine. So, and I always try

337
00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:58,459
to promote this is not alcohol first. This is wine first. This is

338
00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:00,980
the French way to do it is you have a bottle of wine at the

339
00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:04,740
table, so you're having a meal, lunch or dinner with wine. It's part of like

340
00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:08,460
having bread at the table. So this is not like something you

341
00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:12,140
just drink by yourself or by itself. So it's

342
00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:15,870
a. And I always train to talk about it that way. It's not about

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00:21:15,870 --> 00:21:19,590
the alcohol, it's about, yes, there's alcohol, but it's the acidity that

344
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:23,110
all of the other components that make the wine as a fantastic food

345
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:26,470
pairing companion. I wonder if that's the reason,

346
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because look at my, my romantic opinion of wine is never going away. Of

347
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:35,030
course, it's been around thousands and thousands of years. It

348
00:21:35,030 --> 00:21:38,870
has ebbs and flows. There's always some kind of contemporary

349
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:42,310
marketing. There's packaging, there's, you know, Bartles and James, you know,

350
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:46,080
sparkling, you know, strawberry wine. All kinds of different

351
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,240
things have come and gone. And I've had people sit in the chair you're sitting

352
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,760
at, purporting to put wine in a pouch, you know, and that just

353
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,320
certainly takes away from the concept of what wine should be and is.

354
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,800
Which is your definition, what you just said, which is it's always on the table,

355
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,600
it's always part of the meal, it's part of the culture of living.

356
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And I think if, if wine is too

357
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intimidating, you might cut yourself off from

358
00:22:11,770 --> 00:22:15,530
the next generation that would want to dab into drinking wine,

359
00:22:15,530 --> 00:22:19,330
but they can't because they don't have the knowledge. And then suddenly you

360
00:22:19,330 --> 00:22:22,530
cut yourself off from them. So if there's a way to make the wine

361
00:22:22,530 --> 00:22:25,370
approachable, interesting, fun,

362
00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:30,010
not intimidating, bubbles in it and put it

363
00:22:30,330 --> 00:22:34,170
and serve it at anniversary. Yeah. So obviously there's something

364
00:22:34,170 --> 00:22:38,010
that, you know, you don't want to do with sort of sparkling wine in

365
00:22:38,010 --> 00:22:41,450
a pouch would not, definitely not work. But if, if, if you can have

366
00:22:42,150 --> 00:22:45,790
format, half bottles are something that's kind of like fun, it's kind of cute. And

367
00:22:45,790 --> 00:22:49,230
then if people can try it because it's it, there's the

368
00:22:49,230 --> 00:22:52,710
cuteness effect. And then they end up trying wine

369
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:56,790
and feeling that actually it's good. And then they, they enjoy it, then

370
00:22:57,110 --> 00:23:00,790
that's the consumer how you, you, you get them to stick around and,

371
00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:04,590
and, and keep drinking wine. You imagine I had a. This is, and this

372
00:23:04,590 --> 00:23:08,320
is a true story not that long ago, maybe it Was a year ago I

373
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,080
tasted a Method Chambois in

374
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,840
a can. Yeah, it's. I mean, it's. How do you do that?

375
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,600
How do you discourage a can? So you get, you, you have to transfer. So

376
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,120
it's like, you know, it's, you know, in, in champagne, obviously, I don't think it

377
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:26,360
was, you know, a champagne, you can't do that. But you, you have to bottle

378
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,560
and age a wine in that bottle. But everywhere else in the world you don't

379
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,280
have that regulation. So you can actually ferment in a bottle. So metho champenoise

380
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,980
and then transfer. And then you transfer. Yeah, maybe she did that. I

381
00:23:36,980 --> 00:23:39,820
thought maybe she just left all the leaves and the stuff and it's floating around.

382
00:23:40,540 --> 00:23:43,540
Yeah, I don't think you can because you have to disgold and I don't see

383
00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:47,340
how you could do it. So basically you ferment in the bottle or magnum

384
00:23:47,340 --> 00:23:50,940
and then you transfer from those bottles. So it's metal

385
00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:54,700
champion noise sometime on the yeast, but it's in a can, so it's practical.

386
00:23:55,020 --> 00:23:58,820
And I just don't find that attractive. Like, I can't see my. Maybe

387
00:23:58,820 --> 00:24:01,340
that goes back to your definition where you're sitting at dinner time with your family

388
00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:05,180
and you go, you know, that doesn't really work in the grand scheme of

389
00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:08,520
things. Maybe it's for pre drinking, something like that.

390
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,680
You know, in the 1700s, the late 1700s, there was a

391
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,920
15 year, you know, cold snap. Right. There was a

392
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,400
climate change, effectively climate change. How

393
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,680
is the industry dealing with that in Champagne? I know it's affecting it there. I

394
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,400
don't know how much it affects you in Anderson Valley, but because

395
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,040
California doesn't seem to have been affected as much as the European vineyards.

396
00:24:33,570 --> 00:24:36,930
But do we see this as just part of that cycle or are we

397
00:24:37,410 --> 00:24:40,610
preparing ourselves for a larger,

398
00:24:41,170 --> 00:24:44,930
longer change in the climate? So I have only a.

399
00:24:44,930 --> 00:24:48,649
I would say a 30 year view of what's happening.

400
00:24:48,649 --> 00:24:52,370
Yeah, but in 30 years I've seen some changes. I've seen that the Anderson

401
00:24:52,370 --> 00:24:56,210
Valley has a little less fog. So what used to be

402
00:24:56,210 --> 00:24:59,970
the fog kind of cooling down things, slowing down

403
00:24:59,970 --> 00:25:03,400
that maturity. And then suddenly you can pick. And you have enough time to pick

404
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,920
your fruits within those three, four weeks because fog helps you to

405
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,520
mitigate that California sunshine. And what some

406
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,000
years that fog is. No. Is missing or not every day.

407
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,240
And then suddenly that harvest becomes like a race to

408
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,480
pick as fast as you can before you get to know too much ripeness.

409
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,760
And I see that happening in California. You were

410
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,240
talking about the first events. That's the beauty of the new world. The new world

411
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,700
established itself on new land, and land was

412
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:37,420
inexpensive, so you could actually have enough space for

413
00:25:37,420 --> 00:25:41,020
other things than just the vineyards. So the intensity of the vineyard planting

414
00:25:41,580 --> 00:25:45,180
allowed to also have, like, reservoirs to store water,

415
00:25:45,820 --> 00:25:49,580
places we can put pumping stations. So if you could do this,

416
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:53,260
most of California has those systems where you can actually

417
00:25:53,260 --> 00:25:56,860
frost protect by sprinklers, which is

418
00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:00,460
the most effective way to protect yourself against frost. But if you go

419
00:26:00,540 --> 00:26:04,200
some places, like Burgundy of Champagne, the intensity of the

420
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,760
vineyard is massive. So the Appellation is covered 100%.

421
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,880
However, you can plant a vineyard, actually grow something of quality,

422
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,720
it's planted. There's not much more space for this infrastructure, which

423
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,200
is piping, pumping, and storage of water. And I think

424
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,880
now you see that the effect of it can be important, because if you don't

425
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,600
have a way to mitigate those frost events, you don't have the

426
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,240
space to do this. You're limited to just wind fans or

427
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,150
all those we call the bougie, you know, the

428
00:26:34,030 --> 00:26:36,430
warming those. But I'm wondering, like, how

429
00:26:37,710 --> 00:26:41,470
my. My personal opinion is this is just part of the earth

430
00:26:41,470 --> 00:26:45,230
cycle, and we're going to go to a cold freeze

431
00:26:45,230 --> 00:26:47,990
at some point, you know, it's just going to change. But let's say that's not

432
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:51,630
the case. You know, the resistance, certainly in

433
00:26:51,630 --> 00:26:55,030
Burgundy, you know, we're not going to try to grow other grapes in

434
00:26:55,030 --> 00:26:58,430
Bordeaux. They're trying some other grapes, but I can't see, you know,

435
00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:02,130
Tarrega national inside a bottle of the feet. Right. And

436
00:27:02,130 --> 00:27:05,930
so when's it going to. If it. If it does snap, when is it

437
00:27:05,930 --> 00:27:09,770
like, oh, my goodness, we need to make some dramatic changes, which

438
00:27:09,770 --> 00:27:12,450
leads to this concept, which is, you've been there 30 years.

439
00:27:13,730 --> 00:27:17,490
I've heard enologists say we can't. We won't even know what a region

440
00:27:17,490 --> 00:27:20,610
can do for 100 years based on the,

441
00:27:21,490 --> 00:27:24,850
you know, the infinite number of combinations of weather and soil changes.

442
00:27:25,330 --> 00:27:28,950
So you have ways in vineyard management, you know, and that's a bit.

443
00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:32,980
That's my background, you know, you. You have ways to. Between now and

444
00:27:32,980 --> 00:27:35,900
it's the. The fifth, the next 50 years, the next cycle, we're gonna have to

445
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,420
replant your vineyard because it's. It's. It's gonna be a cycle. Yeah. Your next

446
00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:42,980
replanting, this is when you will scratch your head like, okay, am I now

447
00:27:42,980 --> 00:27:46,740
ready to switch varietals in between? You can

448
00:27:46,740 --> 00:27:50,540
mitigate some of the issue, and then it's a lot about

449
00:27:50,540 --> 00:27:54,300
canopy management. Canopy management is creating shading

450
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:58,070
or creating air movements, getting cooler, wetter. Then you

451
00:27:58,070 --> 00:28:01,150
need more air movement otherwise you're going to develop so much rot that you will

452
00:28:01,150 --> 00:28:04,830
never able to get any grapes in anymore. Or

453
00:28:05,390 --> 00:28:09,230
you want to protect yourself from sunburn. And it's something for example, that's been

454
00:28:09,390 --> 00:28:13,150
fairly typical in California. There's sunshine in California.

455
00:28:13,150 --> 00:28:16,990
So protecting ourselves from sunburn was something that we had to do.

456
00:28:17,230 --> 00:28:20,190
And champagne is somewhat learning, it happened basically

457
00:28:20,830 --> 00:28:24,560
two years ago that you can have a heat wave, you know, and

458
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,120
maybe it is going to happen this year as well. It's pretty hot right now

459
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:30,280
in, in, in Europe. So do you have to

460
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,240
mitigate those events by doing some canopy management that would

461
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,960
be typical of California. Now you have to basically start those

462
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,240
same. That's kind of interesting in Champagne as well, creating enough

463
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,800
shading so that when a heat, you know, comes you actually

464
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,520
protect your grapes from, from that. So it sounds like maybe the French are learning

465
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,250
something from the California lifestyle here. Right. So,

466
00:28:53,250 --> 00:28:57,010
so, so Jean Baptiste, the chef de cav at Louis Renai by the fact of

467
00:28:57,010 --> 00:29:00,650
coming and visiting and has been involved for the same. No. Over 30 years

468
00:29:00,650 --> 00:29:04,370
with the, the estate in California, you know, has

469
00:29:04,530 --> 00:29:08,290
I'm pretty sure learned and seen things that we had

470
00:29:08,290 --> 00:29:11,490
to do in the California climate that can give him

471
00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:15,330
ideas of what it could be possible to do in

472
00:29:15,330 --> 00:29:19,100
champagne as, as a way to mitigate what's going on.

473
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:22,700
On, on some of those years. Shifting gears a little

474
00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:26,500
bit. I had a gentleman sitting there

475
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:29,780
named Zaya Yunan who's now,

476
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:33,860
he's not going to take on lvmh but he wants to create

477
00:29:34,420 --> 00:29:37,980
a luxury brand of everything. Cigars,

478
00:29:37,980 --> 00:29:39,860
whiskey, wine, champagne.

479
00:29:41,540 --> 00:29:45,280
He's just got this fascination as

480
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,120
an immigrant at 13 years old. He came from Iran

481
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,800
and he fled, I mean literally fled

482
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,000
and now has attracted to, with his wealth

483
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,560
to this idea of a luxury brand. And certainly champagne

484
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,600
was always considered a luxury brand, even though I don't necessarily agree it

485
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,360
needs to be. But you know, luxury right

486
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,160
now doesn't seem to be in the forefront of the generation. Gen Z's, they

487
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,970
don't seem to be part of the millennials. Even though my daughter,

488
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,840
my daughter and my son in law think that, you know, they're entitled to

489
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,960
luxury brands like champagne. I told you that earlier. I taught them how to drink

490
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,560
champagne and now I've just, I'm suffering greatly from my, my

491
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,720
inventory. But, but

492
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,120
does the, does the industry see luxury as

493
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,200
being threatened right now by some of these generations but and on

494
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,040
the flip side of that comment is, I mean Chanel just bought winery in

495
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,640
Napa. So there seems to be some investment in the luxury brands into

496
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,880
wine and champagne right now. Yeah, I would hope, and then

497
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,160
we are working towards it that basically the ultimate luxury

498
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,240
would be that the products by itself has that zero impact.

499
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,360
It's so luxurious that basically you're trying everything around it to

500
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,120
make, to make that product to be non impactful because

501
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,600
of the choice of the technique, the technology, the recycling or something like that.

502
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,040
And obviously I would justify the higher price because you actually, that is

503
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,820
a, would be like, you know, fully, fully circular

504
00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:20,540
type of system. So that would be my

505
00:31:20,540 --> 00:31:24,180
hopes and expectation. We're doing some of that at the winery.

506
00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:28,580
You're going to lightweight bottles. You're trying to use material that you can recycle.

507
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:33,140
We use labels, foils, boxes, all of this. You

508
00:31:33,140 --> 00:31:36,940
can make choices where they're sourced from, where they're coming from. And maybe I

509
00:31:36,940 --> 00:31:40,300
diverge a bit on the part of the luxury, but I think this is maybe

510
00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:43,970
the expectation from the next generation that

511
00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:47,810
I'm 100% solar. So I'm 100% solar since last year that

512
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:51,050
you know, my, my impact would be zero on the term of,

513
00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:55,210
of energy. So I love that I didn't think of that before,

514
00:31:55,290 --> 00:31:59,010
but what if luxury meant that that

515
00:31:59,010 --> 00:32:02,650
would be fantastic and I think that would help the new generation basically embrace

516
00:32:02,650 --> 00:32:06,410
the luxurious way of life, which would mean it's a,

517
00:32:06,410 --> 00:32:10,010
it's a zero impact. So obviously maybe it's a pipe dream, but you know, let's

518
00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:13,370
dream. I think that's a really interesting concept. I never thought of that before because

519
00:32:14,260 --> 00:32:17,300
we went to the fancy food show in Los Angeles in Vegas a couple years

520
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:21,060
ago. We used to go every year when we sold things and you

521
00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:24,660
know, the preeminent beverage theme

522
00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:28,460
was non alk. Non alk distilled spirits, non alk wine, non

523
00:32:28,460 --> 00:32:32,020
elk sparkler, non alk Prosecco. I mean it was just. And they're terrible. You can't

524
00:32:32,020 --> 00:32:35,860
drink them. And there's, I don't think, I don't think there's any

525
00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:39,660
way to make them drinkable. You know, from a technical standpoint you can't take

526
00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:43,360
the alcohol out and put it back water. And they're coming with new

527
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,200
methods of dealkylization and it's just, I

528
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,160
don't get the point of it. You know, if you want to drink a sparkling,

529
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,880
why not have a soda water with something, you know, instead of trying to fake

530
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,680
it. But maybe in that, that might Be a contemporary

531
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,520
nouveau thing to do for a generation. But what if that

532
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,080
nouveau thing to do was to drink something sustainable or drink something

533
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,620
that's zero carbon footprint or whatever the, the

534
00:33:10,620 --> 00:33:14,060
definition of luxury, maybe even in the

535
00:33:14,060 --> 00:33:16,420
clothesline. Etc, you know, when it comes to clothes,

536
00:33:17,780 --> 00:33:19,780
do you think that our industry

537
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:24,100
spends too much time thinking, talking to itself

538
00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:28,500
and not talking to the consumer? Like, you're out now on this trip,

539
00:33:29,060 --> 00:33:32,740
you're. You're seeing consumers, you're doing dinners and things

540
00:33:32,740 --> 00:33:36,460
and. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, I'm. I mean, in

541
00:33:36,460 --> 00:33:40,100
la, you know, obviously visiting longtime customers and discovering

542
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:43,580
new and new customers. So it always that nice exchange of about

543
00:33:43,820 --> 00:33:47,180
the wine and the expectation. And then you see that in

544
00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:51,020
days you have everything from a knowledge that's very high, that's

545
00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:54,660
of everything to the new consumer or new, that doesn't

546
00:33:54,660 --> 00:33:58,060
know much about the product itself. So you have that

547
00:33:58,620 --> 00:34:02,380
discussion that can span and basically the whole array of

548
00:34:02,460 --> 00:34:06,140
the winemaking from like, okay, this is winemaking 101, to

549
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:10,040
very specific questions. And at the end

550
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,280
it's all about, why am I buying this? Why would I enjoy

551
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,400
that product? Because it actually is a very

552
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,800
nice complement to some kind of food. Because again, we were

553
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,640
talking about it earlier, why do you have restaurants? Because you

554
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,360
want to go and enjoy the ambiance or because you have with friends or

555
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,120
with your girlfriend, your dates, your future wife,

556
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,840
your kids. And this is an exchange time. Wine is part of it.

557
00:34:37,240 --> 00:34:41,060
So again, not making intimidating, but making more of a way of

558
00:34:41,460 --> 00:34:44,900
exchanging. And then the wine. Sometimes it's a discussion point. Like,

559
00:34:45,380 --> 00:34:49,220
people have been talking about wine, we are talking about wine. People have written

560
00:34:49,220 --> 00:34:52,580
about wine, people have, in the Romans, the Greeks have written

561
00:34:52,580 --> 00:34:55,939
poems about wine and how great it is. So the

562
00:34:55,939 --> 00:34:59,300
exchange about it has been all going on. So

563
00:34:59,620 --> 00:35:03,060
maybe we don't want to talk about sports, but what about talking about wine

564
00:35:03,940 --> 00:35:07,780
as a way to break the ice? That's a good way to put it, because

565
00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:12,180
the irony of wine, and we've talked about this, you talked about a little bit

566
00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:15,540
the, the intimidation of wine and the conversation about

567
00:35:16,100 --> 00:35:19,940
terroir and grapes and different appellations of the world

568
00:35:20,340 --> 00:35:23,540
does intimidate people. It is intimidating. But almost

569
00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:27,380
invariably, whether I'm with friends who drink consumptions

570
00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:30,740
of wine, you know, have a cellar maybe to

571
00:35:30,820 --> 00:35:34,420
complete novices, it does always come around

572
00:35:34,420 --> 00:35:38,260
wine. And it's not intimidating at that point. It is just a conversation

573
00:35:38,260 --> 00:35:41,920
people want. They just don't want to be pressured into knowing.

574
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,360
But my dinnertime conversations almost always

575
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,520
involve a conversation about wine, whether it's with a rookie novice

576
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,320
wine drinker or an experienced one. And then you said something that

577
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,040
just triggered a thought which is so elementary, but it's so real that there's always

578
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,000
novices. Always, always, always. The cycle of

579
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,700
humanity will always create somebody new that we need to speak to.

580
00:36:06,170 --> 00:36:09,970
Right. And so it's a continuous education. And to that point, that's part of my

581
00:36:09,970 --> 00:36:13,370
visit, it's kind of educating, educating about who you are as a brand,

582
00:36:13,610 --> 00:36:16,490
educating about what the wine is about. It's method

583
00:36:17,690 --> 00:36:21,490
is difficult. It's like, well, how do you do this? Well, how they come that

584
00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:24,330
you have pressure in that bottle? How do you do this? So even the concept,

585
00:36:24,730 --> 00:36:28,450
the mechanics, the physics of it is kind of exciting. So you. Sometimes

586
00:36:28,450 --> 00:36:29,610
people like it for the

587
00:36:31,850 --> 00:36:35,650
technical press of doing it, and sometimes just like it tastes

588
00:36:35,650 --> 00:36:39,280
really good. Let's have a glass together. I think that's a. Interesting

589
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,800
point and I think that the consumption. I'm looking at some of these questions here,

590
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:43,080
but

591
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,240
there's a friend, a very good friend of mine makes sparkling wine in Armenia. His

592
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,160
name is Vaikushkari and I think he's one of the most brilliant winemakers in the

593
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,760
world. He's been all over the world making wine and he went home

594
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,160
to his homeland. He wasn't born in Armenia, born in Syria, but

595
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,410
he makes. And it's kind of interesting, he went there

596
00:37:06,610 --> 00:37:09,890
and decided he was going to make sparkling wine, which would be insane

597
00:37:10,610 --> 00:37:14,050
to go to a region no one's heard of, where most of the grapes no

598
00:37:14,050 --> 00:37:17,810
one's ever heard of, in fact, entirely. And then felt like

599
00:37:17,810 --> 00:37:21,570
he needed to create champagne from Pinot

600
00:37:21,570 --> 00:37:25,210
Noir and Chardonnay and Pinot Meunier. And he planted

601
00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:28,810
them and realized that, you know, I don't really need to do that. I should

602
00:37:28,810 --> 00:37:32,540
probably make sparkling wine out of my. My own indigenous grapes. So now he

603
00:37:32,540 --> 00:37:36,100
makes sparkler out of Voska Hot and Kangoon.

604
00:37:36,580 --> 00:37:40,260
You've never heard of it? That's right. The reason I brought it up was

605
00:37:40,580 --> 00:37:44,340
they just had the Concour Mundia

606
00:37:44,340 --> 00:37:48,060
de Bruxel there and it was an amazing spectacle. I missed it,

607
00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:51,900
unfortunately. I wanted to go, but I couldn't go. And here's this

608
00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:55,460
burgeoning region of the world, new Appalachian, new grapes. And

609
00:37:56,020 --> 00:37:59,780
people from all over the wine world got to come to Yerevan, Armenia, and

610
00:37:59,780 --> 00:38:03,060
experience the Armenian culture and the wine and of course,

611
00:38:03,220 --> 00:38:06,860
judge worldwide wines. And I'm wondering

612
00:38:06,860 --> 00:38:10,100
about this constant evolution of

613
00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:13,780
appellations and places to go, things

614
00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:17,300
to see the wine trade in general as a.

615
00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:21,940
As a As a tourism type thing. How

616
00:38:21,940 --> 00:38:25,660
is the tourism in Anderson Valley? This is very much

617
00:38:25,660 --> 00:38:29,300
the defining factor of the Anderson Valley in

618
00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:33,130
Minnesota County. It's a pretty. It's a very rural part of

619
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,880
California. And what creates actually the

620
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,800
wine business to be thriving over there is because it's the corridor

621
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,760
for people from the Bay Area to come to the coast to Mendocino, Fort

622
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,360
Bragg and enjoy the beauty of the coast.

623
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,960
So as they travel through the Anderson Valley, they see the beauty of the valley

624
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,760
and they see the vineyards and they see the wineries dotting the road along

625
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,560
there. So, yes, it's that communion between, I think, the beauty

626
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,680
of the space. If you go around the world and you look at vineyards, it

627
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,360
seems like the vineyards are always located in a pretty beautiful part of the world.

628
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,440
Some steepness. Well, well, because, you know,

629
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,760
in the old days, the old timers, they would plant the flat land because this

630
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,320
is where you could get the crop, where you could, you know, you know,

631
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,480
grow your food. Wheat, barley, something like that. And whenever you would have some steepness

632
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:24,240
or rocky soil, what would, you know, grow there? You know, olive trees

633
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,910
and basically and grapes. So the

634
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:31,870
less rich part of the land would be dedicated to those

635
00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:35,550
other crops that could be hardy enough to grow there as a

636
00:39:35,550 --> 00:39:39,270
use of the space. But that, if you look at it now, it's

637
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:42,150
actually usually dramatic spaces, landscape

638
00:39:42,949 --> 00:39:46,510
and shape. And I think it's very appealing to people. So if you go

639
00:39:46,510 --> 00:39:50,350
do wine tourism, you end up going to places that actually are gorgeous.

640
00:39:50,350 --> 00:39:53,590
I mean, can you go to Germany and the Mosel Valley, like, my God. Or

641
00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:56,550
the DRO in, in Portugal? Look at how they have

642
00:39:56,710 --> 00:40:00,490
amazingly created terraces in those spaces to

643
00:40:00,490 --> 00:40:03,410
use such steepness and. And locations. I wonder.

644
00:40:04,770 --> 00:40:08,210
You've seen this 30 years is a huge career,

645
00:40:08,690 --> 00:40:12,370
particularly what you've seen in

646
00:40:12,370 --> 00:40:16,050
the trade change, the dramatic change in 30

647
00:40:16,050 --> 00:40:19,570
years. And one of them is, is, you know, tourism,

648
00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:23,330
you know, Napa Valley. When I tell people I'm going to the Napa Valley, we're

649
00:40:23,330 --> 00:40:26,180
probably going to go in a couple of weeks. It's really expensive.

650
00:40:27,220 --> 00:40:30,940
And you used to be able to taste wine for

651
00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:34,620
nominal fee, sometimes no fee. And now just to walk in the

652
00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:38,380
winery is 85 to $100 to taste something. And then of course, you get discount

653
00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:42,100
if you buy more. And the wine brands, if you and I start a

654
00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:45,900
winery, Napa tomorrow, together, we buy a vineyard. We can't sell

655
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:49,300
it for less than 200 a bottle, 180 a bottle, just to break even.

656
00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:54,910
Where's the Anderson value? Anderson Valley in That range is it

657
00:40:54,910 --> 00:40:58,190
sort of like Napa 20 years ago where you could go, have a good time,

658
00:40:58,190 --> 00:41:01,790
it was reasonably priced, visit some wineries and have a rural

659
00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:05,870
experience rather than this luxurious lifestyle

660
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:09,230
experience. Yeah. So the Anderson Valley and maybe that, that was

661
00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:13,430
part of your very first questions. Why no Jean Claude nor Rodhai no

662
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:16,350
came to the Anderson Valley back then in the 80s the land was really cheap.

663
00:41:16,830 --> 00:41:20,590
So if you were creating something from scratch and you didn't want to over,

664
00:41:20,830 --> 00:41:24,550
you know, expose yourself to a financial burden, buying, you know,

665
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:28,390
cheaper land was. No, no. A key. So that was part of the situation was

666
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:31,870
this part. Are the French cheap people? I know they are kind of. All right,

667
00:41:34,030 --> 00:41:37,590
let's say you, there's always the value. You pay attention to that. And I think

668
00:41:37,590 --> 00:41:41,310
that's also part of the DNA of the family is they are very wise

669
00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:45,190
and they don't like to overpay for things. Right. I like that idea.

670
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:48,250
Yeah. So then they can definitely know buy

671
00:41:48,730 --> 00:41:52,410
something. But it's all about the value you get. And I think that's

672
00:41:52,410 --> 00:41:55,930
why the family has been in business for 250 years. That's it.

673
00:41:56,010 --> 00:41:59,530
They've been very wise with their investment. So if I drive the hotels

674
00:42:00,010 --> 00:42:03,850
availability, reasonable price. Yeah. So Anderson Valley

675
00:42:03,850 --> 00:42:07,450
is not very pricey. It has a little bit of that hippie feeling that it's

676
00:42:07,450 --> 00:42:11,290
had no. For a long time. And land is getting more

677
00:42:11,290 --> 00:42:15,050
expensive. It's California, unfortunately. But you know, it's not as expensive at Napa. And

678
00:42:15,050 --> 00:42:18,770
there's no big, you know, five star luxury hotel in the Anderson Valley. You

679
00:42:18,770 --> 00:42:22,310
have nice family run like the Boonville Hotel or the Madrones that are

680
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:26,030
quirky and kind of like fun but good looking. So it's kind of

681
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:29,750
like a visit out of the beaten path of what

682
00:42:29,830 --> 00:42:33,270
the wine world, Napa, Sonoma were 20, 30 years ago

683
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:37,190
when it was more approachable and easier to get to and enjoy. So

684
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:41,030
yeah, Anderson Valley is kind of like different in feeling.

685
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:44,970
You can't go to Napa without. If you want to stay in

686
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,840
a regular decent hotel, it's seven, eight hundred

687
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,080
dollars a night. And then like I said, the tastings are expensive. Then forget the

688
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,880
food. I mean you go to Bouchon or French Laundry or the

689
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,680
press or any of these fancy restaurants and you're out, you know, $200 a person.

690
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,960
I, I find it unapproachable. I. Somebody told me this.

691
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:06,880
Somebody's chasing the lifestyle of Napa.

692
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,840
Retired media president, you know, know, stumbled into this

693
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,640
idea, wanted to make wine, now is realizing it's Business.

694
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,280
And it's really hard to do when you've got to, you know, come up with

695
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,640
an angle. But he was saying that in

696
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,360
Napa, tourism is way down. If you talk to, for instance,

697
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,200
you know, one of the famed wineries, Girgage Estates, Violet Girgish, will tell

698
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,640
you our tasting room traffic is off 30%. You know, that's

699
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,680
pretty big number. And they're saying it's because

700
00:43:36,890 --> 00:43:40,650
no one's reacting to the tourism fall because the cost

701
00:43:40,650 --> 00:43:43,850
of labor is so high in California that we'd rather run

702
00:43:43,850 --> 00:43:47,690
skeleton cruise at 30% occupancy of the hotel

703
00:43:48,010 --> 00:43:51,730
than a full crew at 100% occupancy. It's cheaper the other way. And so we

704
00:43:51,730 --> 00:43:54,850
keep our prices up so less people come so that now the taste room. So

705
00:43:54,850 --> 00:43:58,490
this whole pull through effect. And I. I really believe

706
00:43:59,290 --> 00:44:03,130
that the wine business, industry, and this is our last thought because we're out

707
00:44:03,130 --> 00:44:06,940
of time. Needs to get back to the

708
00:44:06,940 --> 00:44:10,380
experience of. Yes. If people don't cannot

709
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:13,940
travel and visit and experience the place, you're cutting

710
00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:16,940
yourself off from your next generation of

711
00:44:17,420 --> 00:44:21,260
aficionado and consumers. Right. You want to bring people. So Anderson

712
00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:24,900
Valley has actually, you know, a little state park that's called Handy Woods. You can

713
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:27,780
come and just know, have. No, plant your tent or your RV and you don't

714
00:44:27,780 --> 00:44:31,580
have to pay 300 a night in a hotel if you want just

715
00:44:31,580 --> 00:44:35,300
experience the basic discovery of what the valley

716
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:38,680
can. So you have. I mean, I'm not saying that this is the magic, you

717
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,000
know, option, but you can go and just know, plant your tents, you know, in

718
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,760
the local campground or in state park and

719
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,120
enjoy wine around it. Well, I think that's the key, right? We want to

720
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,760
relax. And then when we come home to our regular busy

721
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,120
lives and we open a bottle of Le Mertage or Rotor Estate.

722
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,880
Anderson Valley. We remember that moment. Yes. That time that

723
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:03,480
Arnaud came out to the tasting room and sat with us and we tasted wine.

724
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,790
I'm going to ask you a question as we get this book,

725
00:45:07,470 --> 00:45:11,110
since I have a French. Yeah. Winemaker here. This is a

726
00:45:11,110 --> 00:45:14,630
book. This is our last thought. Dr. E.A. murray, this book from

727
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:18,390
1974, Wine is the Best Medicine. The

728
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:21,270
original version was in French. I have a copy of that. But I can't make

729
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:24,350
head or tail of it. So I'm going to give you

730
00:45:25,470 --> 00:45:28,750
a human ailment and I'm going to give you three

731
00:45:28,750 --> 00:45:31,930
choices to cure that element.

732
00:45:32,250 --> 00:45:36,010
Okay. And then you're gonna. It's kind of like the master of wine

733
00:45:36,010 --> 00:45:38,410
test in that it is a.

734
00:45:39,770 --> 00:45:42,890
It's more like the reason you chose the.

735
00:45:44,570 --> 00:45:48,010
The answer, not necessarily the end. The. Right.

736
00:45:48,570 --> 00:45:52,250
Okay, so here's the question. If you had coronary disease,

737
00:45:54,730 --> 00:45:57,300
you could have a Burgundy,

738
00:45:58,340 --> 00:46:02,100
a dry champagne or a young Beaujolais

739
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:06,220
to help your coronary troubles. And there's also a dosage

740
00:46:06,220 --> 00:46:09,740
when it comes to this. Oh, now, nobody gets this. Nobody ever gets it right

741
00:46:09,740 --> 00:46:13,340
past the fact that I gave you three choices. You have a 33%

742
00:46:13,340 --> 00:46:16,740
chance of getting it right. That's the average accuracy in this.

743
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:23,380
So what would you have? Burgundy, dry champagne or young Beaujolais

744
00:46:24,020 --> 00:46:27,740
to cure your coronary troubles, inflammation? So I am

745
00:46:27,740 --> 00:46:31,220
biased. I'm going to go for champagne, but I'm highly biased.

746
00:46:31,780 --> 00:46:35,380
Well, you're right, but the question is, why? Oh, the

747
00:46:35,380 --> 00:46:39,220
why. For me, I'm feeling this as

748
00:46:39,539 --> 00:46:43,300
obviously champagne by design as, you know, low alcohol,

749
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,900
because you're a scientist by trade, sort of. Right.

750
00:46:47,540 --> 00:46:51,250
So there's a scientific reason, there's a chemical reason. Right. Carbon

751
00:46:51,250 --> 00:46:54,490
dioxide, know, is kind of, you know, as a way also to basically, you know,

752
00:46:54,490 --> 00:46:58,250
refresh yourself. Refresh, you know, some of that carbon

753
00:46:58,250 --> 00:47:01,890
dioxide goes know, into the bloodstream. So you've, you know, through

754
00:47:01,890 --> 00:47:05,570
the. The calcium carbonate. I'm pretty sure that, you know, you must not create

755
00:47:05,570 --> 00:47:08,170
in your blood and something like that. So that. And how much did you have?

756
00:47:08,170 --> 00:47:11,970
What's the dosage? Oh, the dosage, doctor, can I

757
00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:15,810
have it every day, please? Dr. Arnaud

758
00:47:15,810 --> 00:47:19,260
says, well, the answer, according to Dr. Murray, is

759
00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:23,180
that you should have two glasses before a meal. So that's

760
00:47:23,180 --> 00:47:26,820
effectively a bottle a day almost. And the reason

761
00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:28,140
is the potassium

762
00:47:29,660 --> 00:47:33,260
bitartrate, which consequently

763
00:47:34,380 --> 00:47:37,940
strengthens the cardiac systole and thus,

764
00:47:37,940 --> 00:47:41,420
consequently affect better oxygenation of the heart. All right,

765
00:47:41,580 --> 00:47:44,230
but you were right. So that's. You were part of that 33%.

766
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:48,100
That's the test. But

767
00:47:48,100 --> 00:47:51,940
no, it feels like no, sparkling wine is just for

768
00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:54,860
the acidity of it. And I think, you know, it's something that always.

769
00:47:55,660 --> 00:47:59,300
I would. I would tell people, just have a glass of wine before a

770
00:47:59,300 --> 00:48:02,940
meal because the acidity of the wine makes actually yourself,

771
00:48:03,020 --> 00:48:06,780
your stomach ready for. To enjoy the next. The next dish.

772
00:48:07,340 --> 00:48:11,060
This comes like. It's true. It's kind of like creates that. Where you can see

773
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:14,260
that pipe cleanser. You can see. You can see your stomach kind of like being

774
00:48:14,260 --> 00:48:17,640
ready, kind of like, oh, it's moving. It's like, oh, yes, bring me the food.

775
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,160
Right? It's been an honor having you here, and I wish a good day and

776
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,840
a good travel home back to the Anderson Valley and we will definitely

777
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,280
come see you. Thank you. Paul. Take advantage of this lifestyle.

778
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,760
That's retro. To the wine trade, which is really great. Yes. It was a

779
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,200
pleasure having me on your show. Thank you, Paul. Cheers.

780
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:36,920
Cheers.