Pure Craziness With The Producers Of Bottle Shock...and Now The Game.

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Time for Wine Talks with Paul K. Fascinating

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story. This is Robert Mondavi from the Michael Mondavi Winery. I taste a lot of

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wine having a conversation with Shark Tank, Kevin O', Leary, Michael

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Silachi, Opus One Winery. Incredible conversation with Dr. Mia

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Ruth. No matter what, you're definitely gonna feel better. Sit back and grab

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a glass. It's Wine talks with Paul.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today about

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to have an amazing conversation with the authors of the

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game Bottle Shock Introductions in just a moment.

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Hey, have a listen to Charles Smith, the famed

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Charles Smith. This is one intelligent, bright,

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risk taking winemaker in the state of Washington. Now the preeminent maker of

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wine in Washington just released Incredible story. But since we're talking

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about Bottle Shock today, have a listen to Bo Barrett, the

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current president of Chateau Montalanta was working in the cellar when

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Mike Girgich made the famed wine that won the judgment of

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Paris in 1976. And as well the famed architect

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of such tasting, said tasting. Steve Spurrier was on the

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show many years ago just before he passed. An amazing conversation

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about the history and the sort of the culture of wine, the lifestyle

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of wine. And don't let that outshadow the conversation I

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had with George Tabor who was the only journalist to show up

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and he'll tell you on the podcast, I just might have gone down the Champs

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Elysees and just took a detour into a brasserie and never made it to the

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show. And I'm glad I did and made his career. But welcome to the show.

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This is Flint Dilley, Randall Miller and Jody Savin,

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authors of the game Bottle Shark. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having

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us here. I mean, it's already been a spirited conversation about what's going on. Yeah,

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I think we said all the good stuff in the green. Yeah, well, that's what

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I try to avo void. Right. Making sure. And you can see there's a book

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right here, the Judgment of Parish. Yeah, that's really cool. That's George Tabor's book right

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there. Yeah, it's a. Yeah, it's. We have a lot of history with that and

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it's not about me today, it's about you. So we're going to

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talk about the game. Let's just start with this. I am beginning

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deluged with ads. Okay. And I,

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I didn't turn them off though. So it was good, right? Good, good. Thank you.

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I like that on this show movie Bottle Shock. And

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I have a lot of history with the family. With the Barrett family. In fact,

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Beau would tell you that they celebrated this one when Jim got home

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with a bottle of Merceau, which is odd because it's French

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Chardonnay, which he believes was purchased at my dad's shop at

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the time that they did. Wow. Wow. So there was a lot of history there.

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So tell me, are you guys wine people by.

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By sort of your enthusiasm or your inspiration

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for the thing, or you just thought an idea for a show? What. What prompted

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this idea to make a game? Well, first of all, we. Jody and I

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made the movie Bottle Shock, and we

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like wine. We're not like. We didn't say we're like the biggest wine drinkers,

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but we love great stories more than anything. And

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the story of the Judgment of Paris is a pretty

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phenomenal story. So that was sort of the origin

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for us for how we got involved. Right? Yeah. I mean, because movies are about

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characters, and the minute we met Beau and Jim, we thought, there's a

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movie here. There's a father son story. There's.

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You know, wine is an art form, and these guys

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were scrappy artists who turned. How did you stumble across

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the idea that this existed, that the story. Did you read the book?

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No. First thing was we had a movie prior to

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doing Bottle Shop, we had a movie called Marilyn Hotchkiss, which had. Was Merce

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Tomei, Robert Carlisle, a bunch of great actors, John Goodman, and it played at the

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Sonoma Film Festival and at Sonoma Film Festival. It's. A lot of people are

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into wine, obviously. We met the people who ran the festival,

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Brenda Lormer and Mark Lorimer at the time, and they had

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this. They had this story, this script that

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they. That they said, hey, will you guys look at this? And it was about.

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It was a rough draft of sort of the tale of what Bottle Shock

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would eventually become. And so then what happened was, is that we said, okay,

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well, this is kind of an interesting story. Let us look into it more in

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detail to see, you know, the authenticity of it and try and figure out,

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is there a real movie to be made here? Right. And that's when

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we went to. To meet Beau and Jim

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up in Calistoga. And the thing that

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struck me, I don't know about you, but, was that they were.

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And on the one hand, they loved each other, but they bickered all the time.

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They were like, you know, no, it didn't happen this way. No, it happened this

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way. And it wasn't like that. And it wasn't like this. No, the wine Was

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good. No, the wine wasn't any good. It turned brown. It didn't turn brown. It

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was all this stuff, you know, and we thought, you know, there's a

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real story here with these two guys, if we can really

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capture that. And that sort of was the origin. Right. Yeah.

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And also where. I mean, we make a lot of movies about

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inadvertent artists, like people who have a

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dream, and then what the dream actually

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becomes was not necessarily the seed that they thought

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they were planting. Right. And this was

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definitely true. You know, in Chateau Montelena, they had a dream of making

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fine wine in Napa. And that seemed like such an outrageous. And

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Jim wanted to make. Wanted to make Cab. He didn't really want to make

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chardonnay. Well, they've always been a red house in general. That's what they're

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supposed to be, but. Right. And it was this white wine. He really didn't want

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to be in the great business. Sorry to interrupt you. He. They. They bought Montelani

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because it was a tax deal. They were looking at. They were looking at

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cotton and fruit and all kinds of stuff. And. Oh, yeah, this. This

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winery up there called Chateau Montalane, it was. Had been shuttered for years.

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He was an attorney. That was, as you know, that was very. I don't think

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he left the practice for like, 12 years after that one. Yeah, well, we kind

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of took a little license with that. Supported him. Yeah, yeah. Right. Well, yeah.

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Look, everybody knows in this business, you know, that's the old adage. If you want

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to make a million dollars, you know, in the wine business, start with 2 million.

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It's just. Yeah. Exactly. Possible to do, except when

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that happens. But. So. But you were intrigued by the story

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by meeting these guys. But were you looking for stories at that time? Were you

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looking for something to do? Have you thought about the wine industry? We're already always

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looking for stories. Like, we're like. We're always like, you know, people will tell

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us something, and we'll think, God, is there a movie there? Can we tell that

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story? What is that story? Is it an interesting world to be involved

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in? And when you look into what

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happened with the Judgment of Paris, it really was

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like, it created a sea change in the whole, you

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know, business in a way. And. And so that made it really

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great. It was an underdog story about these California guys who,

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up till then, a lot of people would just think, you know, box wine came

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from California and, you know, good wine came from France. That was basically

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what most people thought. My parents thought. And, you Think, you know, it's interesting because

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wine. If you. If you ask a hundred thousand people in America, do you drink

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wine, it would. It's rumored by the Institute,

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the wine Institute, that 25,000 would raise their hand. But that includes,

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you know, somebody that goes to the Olive Garden and gets the house Chianti. You

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know, they drink wine, but they're not gonna watch a movie or listen to a

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podcast on that. So the funny thing about Bottle Shock

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was we. When we made the movie, okay, when we were

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talking to people about making the movie, all the vintners and people in

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California would say to us, there was. There was two major things

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that really changed the business of wine for them. One was this thing about

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this plight of the. Of the vines.

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And the second thing was sideways. Sideways. Sideways had a gigantic,

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you know, impact on the business. Like, nobody could do Merlot anymore.

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Everybody could do p. Not. That was basically what happened was sideways.

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I mean, vineyards were ripping out there. Merlot

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based on Sundays. Don't I know it. Because I was trying to sell that

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stuff. In fact, I would have. I would. I would adjust

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that list of three things. Phylloxer, of course, very important. In fact, in France,

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we were in Bordeaux just last week. One of the gentlemen said, yes,

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we have American rootstock here. Because, you know, it went back and forth.

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He goes, that was the end of fine wine when we took back American

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rootstock. It was your rootstock in the first place. Yeah,

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yeah. What are you talking about? But actually, sideways, the

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judgment of Paris. I'm sorry. Yes. Judgment, Paris. And Morley

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Safer's

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199060

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Minutes, when the Mediterranean lifestyle

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suggested you should drink red wine at night. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

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my wine sales changed from red to white almost immediately.

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Really? Yeah, yeah. Well, people. People were like, well, yeah, we want to be

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involved in a movie because Sideways was so impactful for them. Right. But please tell

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me you're not doing, like, against Prino or something. Yeah. Like you're now going

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to shift our business again for. Yeah, yeah. And that just goes to show

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you how. How much impact movies and culture have on

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people's attitudes. And we'll talk about the game now, as well

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as probably a game about the subject. I mean, Merlot,

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I can tell you, because I bought and sold a ton of wine.

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Pinot Noir is hard to find immediately after that. If you found it, it wasn't

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any good at the prices that you were used to paying. And Merlot was. You

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could buy it for nothing. I mean, literally, for. I would say it took 12

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to 15 years to recover. Right. Wow. When you consider

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Chateau Petrus, probably the most expensive wine out of the bottle is 100

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Merlot, generally Chateau Cheval Blanc, Chateau Angel d'. All. Merlot,

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Right. There's nothing wrong with merlot, everybody. Yeah,

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it's okay. It's just a couple of scenes in. In sideways that just

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did it in. It's just one 30 second scene, right. He spits it all out

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or something, I can't remember. No, he's in the. He's in the parking lot and

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he goes, I'm not drinking Merlot. No fucking Merlot.

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And the guy goes, okay, okay. And then we made the Chardonnay

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movie. Yeah, Then you make a Chardonnay movie, which is kind of interesting. And. And

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it did. It did really do a lot. The shark, you know, so it's funny

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about a movie. Like it's a wine movie, right? But it was. It's been seen

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millions and millions and millions of times by people who aren't even into wine. Yeah,

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that's true. You know, it was huge on the airlines. Like, they had whole,

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like, wine tasting things on airlines, which was like. And ships at sea.

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What did you see when you were doing this about the lifestyle of wine?

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Here you saw the two, the brother, I mean, the son and the father bickering

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a little bit and, you know, it kind of seems a little

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counterculture. But what did you find culturally with the

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wine business that you thought was different than what you expected when

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you started talking to them? Well, these people. The people are farmers first and

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foremost, the ones who are actually making the wine. So they really care about the

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dirt, the terroir. And Jody can say it better than me because he's.

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But it was like they really cared about the essence of what goes into

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the. What you do with your hands to make wine.

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That's what I thought was really interesting because you don't really think about that when

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you go to an expensive wine shop in New York or someplace. You don't think

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of where it actually came from. And it came from these people who really care

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about the details. So that seems really interesting to me, you

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know, and then. And then it's. It's. It's really.

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It's an art. It's like you taste a little bit of this, a little bit

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of that, and you vary it a little bit more and. And it suddenly

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becomes something great, that there's something really interesting about that. And it's hard to

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harness all the elements because nature's involved. So

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it's an Art form, that there's a lot of variables involved.

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So you're a farmer, you're a chemist, and in the end,

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you're making something that speaks to people as a form of art. It's

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pretty interesting when you think about it. And they all come in a similar bottle,

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so the differences are really what's inside. It's not this other

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thing that is the

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undefinable part of wine. Because bourbon, you

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don't do that with bourbon. You don't do it with beer. The

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math. Did I say something? The brewmaster's

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job is to make it taste like it did last year. And it's the

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distillery master's job to make sure Jack Danis tastes the same every time.

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And here, wine is not supposed to be that, unless you buy something off the

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supermarket shelf, is supposed to represent a different time and

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place. Maybe that's what connects to the human

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soul. I don't know. Can't be defined really. But it's an interesting

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part of wine. Yeah. So culturally, when you go into a place

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like. Like most wine people I speak with, particularly all

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farmers, they're like, God, how do we sell this

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stuff? You know, like, that's a whole different job. Right. And I

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don't really want to be part of that. I just want to make it and

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express myself best I can as an artist. And now I gotta go sell

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it. Yeah. Well, that's one thing that Beau said to us, you know,

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a number of times when we've talked about. He'll say, it's really not that expensive

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to make a bottle of wine. It's really hard to sell a bottle of wine.

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Yeah. So you stumbled across that part of the industry,

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studying film. Yeah. And people really, you

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know, appreciate the fact that, you know, what a movie can do. You know,

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like, after the movie, when it was successful, there were tour buses that were,

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like, following the route of where we made our movie. Yeah.

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Isn't that crazy? You know the Bottle Shock Tour, there was a boxing ring that

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we did one scene. It was. We built it. We built it on the Kundi

220
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estate. Right. Yeah. Anyway, so. But people would have weddings at the boxing

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ring or try to find the boxing ring to have their, you know,

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corporate event or whatever it was. That's an interesting cultural part of.

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Of this. Not only wine, but we went. We were in Paris recently,

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and I tracked down the scenes from Midnight in Paris,

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sat in the steps, went to the hotel, you know,

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kicked that off, you know, went to Rodin and, you know, it's kind of

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interesting that you had that impact when you make a movie like that. Well, people

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have a fond memory of it, and they. In there and they imagine what it

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would be like to be there, and then they go there and then they. They

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see the place. Sometimes it's bigger or smaller than they imagine or. Or it doesn't

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look the same way because we filmed it at exactly perfect time. You know,

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do you think people, when they play this game. And we're going to talk about

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the game now, that. That. That's part of the connection is

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maybe going back to the day that this thing happened or

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end up at the winery, because it's about Chateau Montalain. What's the

236
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anticipation of the fallout? That's. That's

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the idea. That's what. That's what we've been talking about. And that's what, you know,

238
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Flint is so good at, is creating sort of the. The notion of

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you're in this place and shock the game. Yeah. Yeah.

240
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Well, I mean, it's. It's really funny how it came to be. And I

241
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mean, with me, I. I am not a wine expert by any means. I have

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friends who are, and they have a habit of inviting me. A friend of mine,

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Doug Lagerstrom, you know, has invited my wife and I to,

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you know, tastings and blendings, and, you know, we make our own

245
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friend blend and. And all that, but,

246
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I mean, I have zero expertise. Okay. And.

247
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But he did tell anybody that. Oh, except for we went to it. Yeah. Well,

248
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that changes. That's the problem is when you start actually

249
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designing a game, you have to try to figure out how it works, at least

250
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mechanically. And then you start knowing, and

251
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sometimes maybe more than you want to know. But this

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all started out when Doug had purchased,

253
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at some charity auction, a sommelier

254
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to come over and present wines to us. And, well, you know, I'd done

255
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that before. You know, I'd been through three or four of the. Okay, now take

256
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a look at the legs, the color and the clarity. Okay. To the nose.

257
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You know. You know, going through the routine. And

258
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this was just a particular. Maybe I was in a bad mood, or maybe it

259
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was a really tedious afternoon, but I'm thinking, I want to

260
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do this. I can do this. I can be the sommelier. And then it occurred

261
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to me, everybody wants to, because, I mean, what's a game? A game is something

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where you get to be something you aren't really. I'm not really a world

263
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conqueror, but when I play Risk, I can be a world conqueror. I'm not a

264
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detective you play Clue. You can be a detective. I'm not a

265
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slumlord, but I can play Monopoly, you know. You know.

266
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You know, and. And do it. And so it's like everybody wants to

267
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play Somalier. And. And so I was trying to figure out, well, all

268
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how or. Or be the person doing it. And then there's the

269
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question lurking. I think, in a lot of ways, it's sort of

270
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the question of this era of human history. But

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you can apply it to wine, too. And that is what's real and

272
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what's not. I mean, you listen to the poetic, philosophical,

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and almost

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theological soliloquies

275
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in Bottle Shock or Virginia Madsen and

276
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Sideways and. Or any of the Grapes of God

277
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or Blood of God or whatever that thing were. Yeah, yeah, the people are talking

278
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about wine like, you know. You know, it's poet stuff, and it always has been

279
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poet stuff. Okay, but it's wine. I mean, basically,

280
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you know, it's a neurotoxin with different flavors in it, but nevertheless,

281
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wow, you really just broke it down as root level, didn't. Yeah,

282
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but that's okay. That's. That's what you have to do because. And so I

283
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was approaching it, you know, and, like, you smell. And people. Yeah, I'm smelling

284
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,880
burnt rubber and, you know, and blueberry and,

285
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,960
you know, a bit of tobacco. And, you know, I'm like, you know, not smelling

286
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,040
any of that, you know, I'm smelling. Smells like wine to me. Okay. You know,

287
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,920
and so I was thinking how much this is real, you know, because

288
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when you work in, you know, I've done games that are virtual reality and

289
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alternate reality and augmented reality, but

290
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you get to this. You get to a real reality question, okay, how much of

291
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,960
this is stuff people are imagining? How much of it's really there?

292
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And I started out fairly cynical, and then the more you do it, the

293
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,480
more I realize, no, you know, there's something there, and you definitely can tell what's

294
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,120
good and what's not. You know what I mean? And what you like and what

295
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,600
you don't like and how much of it's just what's marketed to me. But I

296
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think people really learn. I mean, a lot of people really learn by doing.

297
00:18:09,860 --> 00:18:13,700
Okay. And so this is. In this game, you get, you know,

298
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:16,780
bottles, and you put them inside a bag so you hide the identity of the

299
00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:20,220
bottles. And there are a lot of variants on how you can. How you can

300
00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:23,860
play it, whether the. The people of the sommeliers know what they're pitching,

301
00:18:23,860 --> 00:18:27,660
what they don't. But, yeah, Everybody will host a tasting and

302
00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:31,460
they'll give their review of it and they'll position it and all that. And.

303
00:18:32,420 --> 00:18:35,380
And they're encouraged to do all the above. They can have

304
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romantic, philosophical statements about it. They can act like they're a

305
00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:43,030
marketing person. I would drink this on the beach on a windy day

306
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:46,870
and in, you know, Gibraltar,

307
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:51,030
you know, watching the ships go by, you know. You know. Or no, I'm

308
00:18:51,030 --> 00:18:54,670
in a dark French bar. Real Jim Morrison was just here,

309
00:18:54,670 --> 00:18:57,990
like, right before he died. His last point. You know, whatever, you know, however you

310
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want to view it, because you actually can taste things. And the best advice somebody

311
00:19:01,550 --> 00:19:05,230
gave me is you sip the wine and

312
00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:08,270
you ask yourself what the first image that comes to your head is.

313
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And that's been very successful for me in

314
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:15,910
identifying what the wine is. Now, is that real or is that my imagination?

315
00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:17,070
Obviously it's my imagination.

316
00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:23,150
I want to stop with it for a second. That's really interesting stuff, because

317
00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:28,590
when people ask me to help them wine, and there's no right answers for one,

318
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,400
right. And two, it's your point of view. All the years of history you've had

319
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,200
with food, whatever you've done, whatever. Like, I sat in a brasserie

320
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,720
in Paris not too long ago, and they brought me a quiche and I

321
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,120
freaked out. I went back like 50 years because it was the smell my mom's

322
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,600
quiche made. Wow. And I hadn't smelled it for 50 years, you know, so this

323
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,400
so memorable. A smell and taste is so memorable. Right. But you

324
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,600
said something really interesting I thought was really fun because

325
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,640
everybody's intimidated by this. And I think the wine industry self

326
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,450
propagates the intimidation by doing this, swirling around and showing

327
00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:03,850
it. I don't smell that. And then you're like, oh, I must be an idiot

328
00:20:03,850 --> 00:20:06,930
because I don't smell that. Right. When there's no right or wrong answer. And I

329
00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:10,370
always tell people, whatever you say, say it with

330
00:20:10,370 --> 00:20:13,810
confidence. Right. This smells like, you know,

331
00:20:13,810 --> 00:20:17,250
Lucky Charms. That sounds official.

332
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:21,130
That is our game. Yeah. Okay. To try and make it work for any

333
00:20:21,130 --> 00:20:24,770
level of. Of connoisseur. Like, if you're just beginning, it works for

334
00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:28,000
that. If you want to do a more advanced version, we have that version too.

335
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,560
So it's like. And if you're a total bullshitter, you might win the game. You

336
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,960
might win the game on that, or you might get lucky and just simply have

337
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,800
the best bottle. And so it's not. Yeah, you might. You might, you know, because

338
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,840
you might like to make any game that anybody can play. You have to be

339
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,280
luck to it. Yeah. That's why. Well, you know, cards. This is so. This is

340
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,920
really fun. I'm dying to do this because the regular traditional home

341
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,000
tasting, you do the brown baggie, the score sheets. I used to give these things

342
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,390
away. Boxes of. Actually, it's a short story.

343
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:57,350
A guy called me because I have 5,000

344
00:20:58,230 --> 00:21:01,910
home wine kits for people to play

345
00:21:02,150 --> 00:21:05,110
and not play, but do a home wine tasting. I got the bags, the pencils,

346
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:08,750
the score sheets. I can't sell them to save my life. Nobody really

347
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:11,390
wanted them, and so I got them for free and I gave them away. People

348
00:21:11,390 --> 00:21:13,710
thought it was the world's fair because I give them this stupid kit. But they

349
00:21:13,710 --> 00:21:17,470
never use it either because it's too much intimidation in it. And. And

350
00:21:17,470 --> 00:21:21,240
there's too much like, I'm wrong about this. But if you're playing a game. Yeah.

351
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,760
Where everybody knows it's a game and you can take any

352
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,400
direction you want, it's giving a whole new avenue to the idea of

353
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,240
tasting one. Because that's the whole thing. Because there's stakes when

354
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,080
there's a game. You have winners and losers, but you. And. But it forces you

355
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,880
to pay attention to stuff. Yeah. You know, and that's it. It brings you

356
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,680
to the immediacy and. And in this game, you know, like Randy

357
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,680
been saying, you gotta have trivia stuff. And hearing that, I'm going, I'm a real

358
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:47,960
game designer. I do not put.

359
00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:54,310
I finally worked, you know, and now I know why it's essential because it

360
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:57,630
is going to be educational. People will know about wine when they've done this.

361
00:21:57,950 --> 00:22:01,550
You know, and obviously you can have wildly different difficulty levels,

362
00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:05,070
but this design. So you have different difficulty levels at the table.

363
00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:09,110
But as much as anything, it's experiential. And. And

364
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:12,510
when you have to explain why you think this is the greatest wine in the

365
00:22:12,510 --> 00:22:16,040
world, um, you know, camera's rolling. Or,

366
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,640
you know, conversely, you know that we have a version of it too where,

367
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,240
you know, you're trying to rig it. Right. And so people are saying things that

368
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,880
are disingenuous and. And they're trying to get their bottle to

369
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,920
win. You'll be keeping your real score for what you think the bottle is for

370
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,320
later on because there's an interesting capper to the game. There's a whole clip at

371
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,560
the end of. Let's get to the practical side of that because you said a

372
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,160
lot. And that's. This is. I'm not a game. I'm not a game

373
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:43,030
writer. Right. I've never had A person on the show that was a game writer.

374
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:46,550
Yeah, they were pretty rare animals. Yeah, but yeah, I think. So

375
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:50,550
to put levels of in a game and to put different

376
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:54,630
approaches, practical approaches to the game and still make it fun.

377
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:58,710
I mean, what does that mind do to do that? How would you

378
00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:02,550
take that in a practical sense and say, look, we're make a game out

379
00:23:02,550 --> 00:23:06,290
of this. It's, it's. We got to cross all, you know, dot all these

380
00:23:06,290 --> 00:23:09,730
eyes and get rid of these cross T's because people are going to be bored

381
00:23:09,730 --> 00:23:13,410
with those. What? Well, I mean, I mean, only just because I have

382
00:23:13,410 --> 00:23:17,170
kids that are like 20. Well, 23 and 21. And we played a

383
00:23:17,170 --> 00:23:20,530
number of these games today are do this a lot. There's like

384
00:23:20,530 --> 00:23:24,170
wingspan and there's botany and these various games that have come out

385
00:23:24,330 --> 00:23:27,810
that are like these kind of games where you can play it on one level

386
00:23:27,810 --> 00:23:30,930
in the game the way the rules are. You can play a very simple version

387
00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:33,740
of it that plays like in an hour, let's say. Or. Or you can. These

388
00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:37,380
are how games work. Or you can do the more complicated version of the game

389
00:23:37,540 --> 00:23:41,380
where suddenly a card means two or three different things and you

390
00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:44,820
have various ways you can go in your game. So

391
00:23:45,460 --> 00:23:49,299
there's complications there in this game. We've also added the fact

392
00:23:49,299 --> 00:23:52,980
that let's say you want to go the Sommelier

393
00:23:52,980 --> 00:23:56,740
Extreme version, which is what we had something called the Sommelier Extreme version.

394
00:23:56,980 --> 00:24:00,640
They're really difficult questions that you have to have an experience

395
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,480
like you have of having lived in wine to be able to answer

396
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,160
the questions. And that's so that you can have your

397
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,800
snobby friends come and play the game and be, you know, and be

398
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,000
intrigued. But you don't have to play that level. You can play the simpler level.

399
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,520
That's kind of. That's kind of how it works. Now, as far as how he

400
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,760
designs it, I can't speak to how he designs it, but he's a professor of

401
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,080
games, so he knows all about this stuff. Well,

402
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,190
it takes a mind to break it down, break the

403
00:24:28,190 --> 00:24:31,790
dances, granular forms and reassemble them into

404
00:24:31,790 --> 00:24:34,750
an entertaining environment. And a lot of testing,

405
00:24:36,190 --> 00:24:39,590
which is fun. With this game, it's all about

406
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:43,350
testing and iteration and even the end user. Remember, when we release

407
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:46,870
a game, it's just our approximation. We think it's going to be fun. We have

408
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:49,830
a lot of ways you can tune it and vary it for what you think

409
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:53,480
is fun and play that up and play down the stuff you don't think is

410
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,120
fun. And Play as you get to be more experienced and better

411
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,640
at it. What did you do to research for this? We're talking about drops of

412
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,480
God and some other. Would you watch movies? Yeah, I've watched pretty much every,

413
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,880
you know, wine movie I could come across in the documentaries and,

414
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,760
and all this. But I mean, part of it, I mean what I'm really interested

415
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,400
in right now is making social games. You know, games where people

416
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,800
bring in their friends and interact with each other. I just thought since COVID

417
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,520
everybody lost their social skills. And secondly, people

418
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,200
want to do stuff where they're all in the room playing, you know, you know,

419
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,960
you know, doing, you know, engaging each other. And so we're trying to

420
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,360
do this with no apps. I mean the default in every case. Well, you have

421
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:36,960
your app, which you wouldn't want to do that. No phones, lose the screens. This

422
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,720
is two or three hours with your friends, you know, you

423
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,320
know, door to door. You're probably not trash because of

424
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,000
the, you know, amount of wine is you're consuming is actually not much unless

425
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,610
you're, you know, know, you know, doing ultimate. I don't want to play.

426
00:25:52,170 --> 00:25:55,730
We do have where you can get the, the pour. It can be double pour.

427
00:25:55,730 --> 00:25:59,570
We have that complete with the 1 oz pourer. Okay. So

428
00:25:59,570 --> 00:26:01,970
in theory you can have the double pour if you want. If you play the

429
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:05,730
game by its rules, any version of it, you will not be get a DUI

430
00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:09,210
on the way home. But I mean, you know, as far as researching it,

431
00:26:10,570 --> 00:26:13,610
what it, what it really is is you just sort of watch all this stuff.

432
00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:16,970
You, you and you start out with an initial intention,

433
00:26:17,650 --> 00:26:21,330
you know, and kind of a fun goal. And my fun goal was to let

434
00:26:21,330 --> 00:26:24,890
everybody, you know, be. Pretend to be the,

435
00:26:24,890 --> 00:26:28,330
the person, you know, the, the psalm, reviewing and

436
00:26:28,330 --> 00:26:32,170
promoting or demoting the, the wine. And they get to

437
00:26:32,170 --> 00:26:35,850
be something they're not. They pretend to be an expert. Because when you

438
00:26:35,850 --> 00:26:39,090
pretend to be an expert, you actually do learn stuff.

439
00:26:39,250 --> 00:26:43,050
Okay. Even if you're just BSing your way through it, you're. It's

440
00:26:43,050 --> 00:26:46,810
impossible to make a good game that people don't learn from. I mean, I was

441
00:26:46,810 --> 00:26:47,570
making fun of

442
00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:53,810
Clue, but who didn't learn deductive reasoning from Clue? Yeah, right.

443
00:26:53,890 --> 00:26:57,730
Who didn't learn thinking in advance from tic tac toe? I mean, you probably had

444
00:26:57,730 --> 00:27:01,570
to play 20 times before you realized how to get a cats game. Every time.

445
00:27:02,290 --> 00:27:06,050
Everybody learned capitalism from Monopoly, even though the game was made to

446
00:27:06,050 --> 00:27:09,570
be anti capitalist. But anyway. But

447
00:27:09,570 --> 00:27:12,690
everybody did. But not slot machinery.

448
00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:16,450
Yeah, slot machine. Well, you learn what Sherry's like, look like, you know,

449
00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:21,050
you get a rapid and brutal education into probability playing slot

450
00:27:21,050 --> 00:27:24,450
machines. But so, you know, so

451
00:27:24,770 --> 00:27:28,330
basically, you're learning while you're doing, and you're hanging out with your friends,

452
00:27:28,330 --> 00:27:32,050
drinking wine, and how bad can that be? But you're also evaluating each of the

453
00:27:32,050 --> 00:27:35,850
wines and giving your sense of it and, you know, why

454
00:27:35,850 --> 00:27:38,970
you like it and why you don't like it, for what reason, and rating it

455
00:27:38,970 --> 00:27:42,730
against others and your developing skills. You learn

456
00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:46,420
what notes are. And then, you know, there's a moment you go, yeah, okay, I

457
00:27:46,420 --> 00:27:49,820
see that BlackBerry. You know, I thought that was phony when I first heard it.

458
00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:53,340
Well, I can tell you a funny story. Up in Napa, I was with some

459
00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:56,700
friends. Now they're. They're with me in Bordeaux, and they're like, wow, you know,

460
00:27:56,940 --> 00:28:00,580
had lots of things to say about the wines in Bordeaux. But at that time

461
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:04,140
in Napa, I said something like this.

462
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:07,940
You know, I get little hints of dark chocolate. It's like, you know, what you

463
00:28:07,940 --> 00:28:11,180
say is my friend one of my best friends? I go, what are you talking

464
00:28:11,180 --> 00:28:14,180
about? He goes, I don't believe any of that. I said, well, let me just

465
00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:17,980
ask you this question. You're tasting these two Wines. They're both 2014 Cabernet.

466
00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:21,820
They're from two different properties, same winery, same winemaker. Do they taste different to

467
00:28:21,820 --> 00:28:25,500
you? He said, yeah. I go, you just got started. Yep.

468
00:28:25,580 --> 00:28:29,300
Because you can't define the difference, but you recognize

469
00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:33,100
the difference. Did you find, like, I do. And I'm gonna

470
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:36,460
show you a sizzle before you guys go. That I created, that

471
00:28:36,940 --> 00:28:40,500
almost all wine stuff is boring as hell, and that

472
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:44,080
it's snobbery in this worst. I mean, it can be snobbery. That is

473
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,880
exactly the impulse we were attacking. I was attacking. When

474
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,720
I started designing the game, I was absolutely convinced that I could go in with

475
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,160
one bill fill or swill or one bill swill or two buck Chuck.

476
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,360
And you could have, you know, Chateau, you know, expensive

477
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,480
on the other side of it. And French accent. Expensive. People could. Yeah, right. That's

478
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,200
French for expensive. And I just make up

479
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,040
French words. Okay. Blue Chevy. Yeah, right. Exactly.

480
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,290
Yeah, yeah. Exorbitant. You know,

481
00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:18,210
Anyway, so, you know, so I just went in there and thought, oh,

482
00:29:18,210 --> 00:29:20,610
it'd be really funny to try to con people. We know we're going to have

483
00:29:20,610 --> 00:29:23,810
four different levels and price points of wine,

484
00:29:24,210 --> 00:29:28,009
four different ratings on any objective thing, and see if people

485
00:29:28,009 --> 00:29:31,610
can really tell the difference. Yeah. And I went in totally cynical,

486
00:29:31,610 --> 00:29:35,090
thinking that a charismatic Person could sell one bill Swill,

487
00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:39,090
you know, to, you know, to people or something great or vice versa.

488
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,480
You could be really, really brown mouthing something really good and people think, oh, it

489
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,200
really does taste bad. I don't necessarily believe that

490
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,960
anymore. I flip back and forth about every two weeks into what I, what I

491
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,600
really think. But that's why it's intriguing because, I mean, it's like

492
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,440
any really great puzzle. It's like there is

493
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,840
objective truth in there, there is subjective

494
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,600
opinion, there is romantic opinion, and it's what you were

495
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,000
talking about. Smell is the most powerful, you know, cognitive

496
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,200
influencer. In other words, it brings back memories. The best.

497
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,240
Right. It's like any kind of cologne or like, you know, you know it's spring

498
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,200
because of what it smells like. Right. You don't smell bit of swarm and you

499
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,760
know, la in the middle of summer very often or,

500
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,440
you know, I mean, so it's very important to us. And it's all hidden in

501
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,960
there. This stuff's real and there, there are. So there are

502
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,720
objective values, there are subjective values and that is the stuff of

503
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,470
social gaming. And then, you know, and, and what is real and

504
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:40,030
what's not. And that's the issue of right now. I mean, we're being told

505
00:30:40,030 --> 00:30:43,350
videos we saw on TV were fakes. Okay. You know.

506
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:47,270
Yeah, right. You know, and all kinds of fronts. Now if you get something

507
00:30:47,270 --> 00:30:50,710
that's as subjective as what we're talking about, and yet there is an

508
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:54,510
objective component to it, you know, whether we agree they taste

509
00:30:54,510 --> 00:30:58,150
different, we all agree that what tastes good and bad is a matter of

510
00:30:58,150 --> 00:31:01,960
opinion, sort of. Then you get the snobs. And I was really kind of

511
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,560
curious. Am I ever going to meet somebody who really can, you know,

512
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,000
taste? Oh, yes. The terrier of this. Our plan is

513
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,760
once we get through this Kickstarter, which is on right now.

514
00:31:15,159 --> 00:31:18,920
Kickstarter good. Yeah. Is we're going to get a, you know, Bo

515
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,960
Barrett, maybe Heidi Barrett and a few other vintners and have them

516
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,720
play the game. Oh, that'd be the high level version

517
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,250
version of the game. And then film it. Film them

518
00:31:30,450 --> 00:31:34,090
and just do whatever. Have them bullshit each other, basically. Yeah, you get

519
00:31:34,090 --> 00:31:37,650
real experts. It's gonna be great. I wanna get

520
00:31:38,050 --> 00:31:40,850
designers doing it, figuring out how they outgame each other to

521
00:31:42,050 --> 00:31:45,490
be right or wrong. I find the more I play the game, the better.

522
00:31:46,130 --> 00:31:49,970
At first I thought I can't identify anything, but the more

523
00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:52,930
times I play the game, the better I am at identifying

524
00:31:53,810 --> 00:31:57,560
the differences between the wines. But there is another element of

525
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,120
this game that's just pure fun. Yes. Which is that, you know,

526
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,520
there's a bullshit. You know, you're assigned a role and you're assigned a

527
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,880
different role. Yeah. You're a judge, you're a rig judge, you're a vintner, you're a

528
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,040
landowner, you're trying to get people to vote for the wine you want to win.

529
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,640
Yeah, stuff like that. I think that that is going to be the game

530
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,680
changer for people to play. In other words, if, like I said earlier, if you

531
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,360
bring up the word wine, you've already taken 75% of the people out of the

532
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,610
game. Like, I'm changing the name of this podcast because I'm going to do a

533
00:32:24,610 --> 00:32:28,130
lot of immigration stories. It's incredible stories to tell

534
00:32:28,930 --> 00:32:31,890
that come from this thing. But if I put wine talks out there,

535
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:35,690
75% of people are going, I don't really, you know, I don't want to talk

536
00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:39,530
about wine when it's not going to be about wine. Right. So I want

537
00:32:39,530 --> 00:32:43,330
to. I want to focus my marketing the show to all

538
00:32:43,330 --> 00:32:47,050
bigger audiences. And so the idea that you're going to just have

539
00:32:47,050 --> 00:32:50,650
fun and that in some cases, look, sounds like you're mocking the

540
00:32:50,650 --> 00:32:54,330
idea, which is perfectly fine. You can that way or you can go at

541
00:32:54,330 --> 00:32:57,730
it exactly the opposite way. And then. Yeah, that's. I think that's

542
00:32:58,050 --> 00:33:01,770
valid because people like my buddy saying it's what you're talking about,

543
00:33:01,770 --> 00:33:05,410
and all of a sudden, and you said something important, which, the part,

544
00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:08,450
the experiential part of, like this meal I had in Paris,

545
00:33:09,730 --> 00:33:13,570
somebody's going to play this game and then one day at a

546
00:33:13,570 --> 00:33:17,410
restaurant, taste the wine and go, gee. And they're going to go back

547
00:33:17,410 --> 00:33:20,370
to the day they played this game. Maybe the second time or the third time.

548
00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:23,490
Yeah. And use some of the phrases or use some of the thoughts or use

549
00:33:23,490 --> 00:33:27,210
some of the notes. Yeah, definitely. Because the other thing, too, that I think is

550
00:33:27,210 --> 00:33:30,930
really important in why this game works right now is the very nature of it

551
00:33:30,930 --> 00:33:34,570
is incredibly experiential and mindful. I mean, you have to be right here

552
00:33:34,570 --> 00:33:38,330
right now and notice where you are and what you're

553
00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:42,140
doing and what just went into your mouth. And, and, and people don't do

554
00:33:42,140 --> 00:33:45,620
that very much. 90% of the wine I drinks at some party goes into a

555
00:33:45,620 --> 00:33:49,260
glass loop, you know, and unless there's something striking about it,

556
00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:52,900
don't notice it. When you stop and notice it, the entire world starts

557
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:56,540
unlocking all the way around you. You know, it is a mindfulness

558
00:33:56,540 --> 00:34:00,060
presence of mind for A, you know, perpetually

559
00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:03,860
distracted civilization right now. I mean, you know, I. I

560
00:34:03,860 --> 00:34:07,340
mean, we've all turned off our phones, but imagine the aggregate number of

561
00:34:07,340 --> 00:34:10,940
messages and calls we've received, notifications we've received

562
00:34:10,940 --> 00:34:14,600
since we started conversation. And so part of this is about just

563
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,480
stepping back. You want to, like, if you do it, ideally you

564
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,280
redo your living room or your backyard and you, you know, almost

565
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,800
anybody backyard, any environment can look like some kind of winery.

566
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,320
You know, one of the most fun places I do has nothing but vinyl albums,

567
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,120
but it's basically inside a, you know. Inside a, you

568
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,960
know, storage facility. Yeah. And. But, I mean,

569
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,640
that works too. And so you all sudden think your environment is. What would it

570
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,080
be in this. The wine environment. And then the

571
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,520
wrinkle we've added onto it happened at our first play test

572
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,920
where, you know, we've done it in our backyard. And our backyard can kind of

573
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,920
look like you're somewhere in, you know, France or somewhere

574
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,720
probably in like, more Spain. But anyway, it's in fact in

575
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:01,680
Los Angeles. Yeah, it's Pacoima, France. Have you heard of that

576
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,080
is very nice. You have windows which are

577
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,680
some only found in la. They're gothic windows with a Moorish

578
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,320
frame around them. Okay. Because we live in a country that

579
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,000
was, you know, founded by a bunch of Moors and Visigoths. Right. You know, I

580
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,560
mean, a state in Los Angeles. That's why you got all this Spanish

581
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,320
architecture here. And that's what I didn't know. Here's. But

582
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,120
anyway, go ahead. This is. This is my

583
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,640
father. So this is probably circa 1972. This actual

584
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:38,830
brochure, swirl, sniff and sea sw. My dad would go lecture and it tells you

585
00:35:38,830 --> 00:35:41,350
all the things here, which is probably in. In this game. Right.

586
00:35:42,550 --> 00:35:45,910
Those are the things everybody does all the way through. I mean,

587
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:49,670
I had to define early on. I'm doing a wine tasting game, not in a

588
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:52,870
wine appreciation game. And they aren't mutually exclusive.

589
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:56,910
But the skill you are going to learn is how to evaluate it. That's the

590
00:35:56,910 --> 00:36:00,590
first thing you're going to learn. I've evaluated, using the word evaluated,

591
00:36:00,590 --> 00:36:03,710
probably four potential games that come to market.

592
00:36:04,270 --> 00:36:07,790
And they're all like, really boring to play. And they all

593
00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:11,510
basically played off of this, right? Yeah, it was boring. This,

594
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:15,230
this patch here, Les Amie Divan was a group in the 70s

595
00:36:15,230 --> 00:36:18,990
all over the country. I have anecdotal story about the founder, but,

596
00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:22,710
you know, they would get together and it was just a big event. You know,

597
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:25,750
the women would wear their meek stoles. They'd Come to Palos Verdes, they'd go to

598
00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:29,510
Marineland, and they'd have dinner in the fancy room, and Robert Madhavi would speak. And

599
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:33,150
so that aristocracy of what's going on. And here, you.

600
00:36:33,230 --> 00:36:36,990
You. You're creating an environment that everybody can approach

601
00:36:38,270 --> 00:36:41,470
and possibly pick up on what this is. Because

602
00:36:42,110 --> 00:36:45,870
it. For me, the stigma of what we do is

603
00:36:45,950 --> 00:36:49,670
our own problem. We've created it. And there are some people in this industry that

604
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:52,430
would love for it to continue that way because it gives them an edge on

605
00:36:52,430 --> 00:36:56,230
something else. Like, for instance, and I love this comment from

606
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:58,750
one of the great LA wine guys named Ed Masiana.

607
00:37:00,580 --> 00:37:04,260
You know, I certainly can appreciate the fact that a master of wine or a

608
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:07,980
master psalm can identify a region, you know, of a wine

609
00:37:07,980 --> 00:37:11,700
or vintage or grape. That's. That's great. It's fun. It's

610
00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:15,420
part of the academia. But so what. I mean, really,

611
00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:18,420
so what that you have the talent to do that? What about the talent of,

612
00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:22,180
like, choosing wines people might, like, understand who you're selling it to,

613
00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:26,340
Being able to explain it to somebody who doesn't understand the words themselves.

614
00:37:27,830 --> 00:37:31,670
I think that's the part of wine that needs to change, if it ever

615
00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:35,270
will change. Yeah, well. And also let people

616
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:38,910
participate in it. You know, the world's changed a lot. There were a lot of

617
00:37:38,910 --> 00:37:42,230
things that you could only be an observer of, and now almost

618
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:45,910
anything you can participate in it. You know, like most

619
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:48,910
sports, you know, I mean, for our kids, what's kind of bad is everything is

620
00:37:48,910 --> 00:37:52,550
so professionalized by the time you're nine that, you know, I mean, you

621
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:56,390
know, the club sports. Yeah, yeah, the club sports and all that stuff

622
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:59,530
that, you know, everybody knows who, you know, the next, you know, you know, if

623
00:37:59,530 --> 00:38:03,210
Tom Brady's going to be. But the. There are now

624
00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:07,010
all sorts of things you can go do. Okay. And.

625
00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:10,650
And just deem yourself an expert and you just

626
00:38:10,650 --> 00:38:14,330
deem yourself a wine expert. Be for. And subjectively all

627
00:38:14,330 --> 00:38:18,090
are. We call these influencers. But even in the movie

628
00:38:18,090 --> 00:38:21,650
he says. Alan Rickman at the end of the movie says the democratization of

629
00:38:21,650 --> 00:38:25,490
wine. That's what. And we did that. What was that? 2007, 2008.

630
00:38:26,070 --> 00:38:29,390
I mean, we were saying even in China they'll be making wine. And of course,

631
00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:32,870
that just predicted what, you know, came along and happened. Georgia, China,

632
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:36,070
China, Chile, Argentina, China.

633
00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:40,550
We are focusing a lot on the wine tasting. There is a very

634
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:44,670
important part of this game, the overwhelming part of this game, where

635
00:38:44,670 --> 00:38:48,390
it's just pure fun. Yes, yes. You know, where you're Coming. And you're assigned

636
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:52,110
a character. You pick from the beginning. Your character. You're

637
00:38:52,110 --> 00:38:55,510
bluffing. You may not be bluffing. You may be the legitimate

638
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:58,910
character, but a lot of the characters are posing and

639
00:38:58,910 --> 00:39:02,750
bluffing and trying to trick everyone else. So there is a part of the game

640
00:39:02,750 --> 00:39:05,710
that. Because you were kind of making fun of what you're talking about with the

641
00:39:05,710 --> 00:39:09,229
first version of the mystery game, we really are setting it in

642
00:39:09,229 --> 00:39:12,990
1977, you know, because the judgment of Paris was

643
00:39:12,990 --> 00:39:16,670
1976. Right. And the judgment of St. Helena

644
00:39:16,670 --> 00:39:20,230
is 1977. And kind of down the road. Yeah. People. People

645
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:24,680
want to read the results. Right. And our judgment of

646
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,320
St. Helena is fabricated. Obviously, it's the game judgment,

647
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,200
because Judgment of Paris. I mean, here's a trivia question for you. Does

648
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,920
anybody know what Judgment of Paris is upon on? I mean, it's a reference to.

649
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,280
In mythology. Was it like Napoleon or something? No,

650
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,080
it was ancient Greek mythology.

651
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,560
The gods or goddesses were having an argument about

652
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,400
which of them was most beautiful. It was like Venus and Artemis and Hera

653
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,150
maybe. I can't remember what the three were. But anyway, that's a little snobby. And

654
00:39:55,150 --> 00:39:58,790
they get Paris in there. They get Paris who? Not Paris, the

655
00:39:58,790 --> 00:40:02,470
city. Paris was the guy who, you know, later. And the

656
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:05,710
prize was you get the most beautiful woman in the world. Okay.

657
00:40:05,950 --> 00:40:09,590
Paris picks Venus and he gets

658
00:40:09,590 --> 00:40:13,390
Helen of Troy. And from that comes the Trojan War and all that.

659
00:40:13,390 --> 00:40:16,950
I mean, you know, the Judgment of Paris was the biggest event in. In probably

660
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:20,590
mythology. And you could argue literature ever. Nobody knows what it was and.

661
00:40:20,590 --> 00:40:23,470
Yeah, never heard of it. We have the judgment of St. Helena, and you're going

662
00:40:23,470 --> 00:40:26,730
to have to do some research to know what it. But it is mythologically

663
00:40:27,290 --> 00:40:30,810
just as solid and maybe a little more sinister. It's kind of like there's a

664
00:40:30,810 --> 00:40:33,450
little bit, to tell the truth in this. Yes, there is. There's a little bit

665
00:40:33,450 --> 00:40:36,530
of that. Yes, there is. And you get to play characters if you want to

666
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:40,290
play. And, yeah, obviously, the host decides how much they

667
00:40:40,290 --> 00:40:44,050
want to take this literally. Like, I went to a 60s party for

668
00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:47,850
a guy who was playing who had turned 60s, but he was a guy

669
00:40:47,850 --> 00:40:51,380
who was like this heyday in life was six a while back was in the

670
00:40:51,380 --> 00:40:55,220
60s. And I showed up and all these people were dressed like it was the

671
00:40:55,220 --> 00:40:58,940
60s at the party, and so was I. And it was eerie.

672
00:40:58,940 --> 00:41:02,420
I mean, it actually really worked. I mean, oddly enough that what they were dressed

673
00:41:02,420 --> 00:41:05,340
in looked more 70s to me, but they were actually there in the 60s. And

674
00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:08,380
I so tell me what this looks like. Do you. Are you standing around? Are

675
00:41:08,380 --> 00:41:11,900
we. Do we have bottles on the table? Are we swirling stuff? Is there sort

676
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:15,700
of interactive cocktail party at the time going on while you're doing

677
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,980
this? It's a. It's a game that has, you know, there's rules to the game,

678
00:41:18,980 --> 00:41:22,750
obviously, so the host decides whether it's a white

679
00:41:22,750 --> 00:41:26,590
wine or red wine night, and then four bottles are

680
00:41:26,590 --> 00:41:30,230
brought. You can play with more people, but let's just do the basics. So four

681
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:33,870
bottles are brought. They're put in blind bottle bags, they're opened. Nobody knows which

682
00:41:33,870 --> 00:41:37,350
bottles which. You pick characters. There's like 16

683
00:41:37,350 --> 00:41:40,710
characters to pick from. Like he described. They're all different levels of

684
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:44,430
characters. I love the graphics, by the way. Different people are cool. Yeah,

685
00:41:44,430 --> 00:41:47,780
really cool. So there's all these different characters and there's different

686
00:41:47,780 --> 00:41:51,340
agendas. Everybody has different agenda, you know, that they. They.

687
00:41:51,340 --> 00:41:54,620
They're like, want to get theirs to win. They're. They're losing their

688
00:41:54,620 --> 00:41:58,340
chateau. They need to get. They need to win because they need the wine to

689
00:41:58,340 --> 00:42:01,940
win. Or they're the vintner that has a problem with phyllo.

690
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:05,340
It's all explained as the character. It's all in the character. Yeah. Are you picking

691
00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:08,940
the character by. By. You want random? It's random. You're random. The host can

692
00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:12,340
assign them to you. They can send them to you ahead of time. How you

693
00:42:12,340 --> 00:42:16,160
get the cards up to you? Well, you're. You either, okay, put on a

694
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,640
hat, or you just say, pick one ahead of time. The host can send you

695
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,880
a card and say, this is your character. You can send it to you physically.

696
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,920
Script analysis. Right? I mean, well, and. Well,

697
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,679
if you'll see a picture of the person, they're all pretty easy to understand.

698
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,160
And kind of depends if people want to show up in costume. They can.

699
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,640
If they're mixing. That's what I'm thinking. And then there's. And then there's a. There's

700
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,100
a setup card which is random as to whether you're. You're a rig

701
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:44,180
judge or whether you're an honest judge or whether you have this or we have

702
00:42:44,180 --> 00:42:47,580
that. And then. And then as you go through the various stages, there's four

703
00:42:47,660 --> 00:42:51,500
rounds of tasting, basic rounds of tasting. During the

704
00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:55,300
rounds, there's different things that happen in the game where

705
00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:58,980
you pick cards and you. You answer questions and whatnot, but you

706
00:42:58,980 --> 00:43:02,660
also have to taste the wine and give your analysis of the

707
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:06,340
wine as you're tasting it for the other people. And you're. You're

708
00:43:06,340 --> 00:43:10,120
giving clues which are things from your cards to other people

709
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,480
to tip them off of whether you're a rigged judge or an honest judge. And

710
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,040
they're trying to figure it out because you're saying, you know, I

711
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,760
feel that this has, this has a bit of BlackBerry

712
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,440
in it, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. And you're obviously brown mouthing

713
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,240
yes. And the BlackBerry would be. If somebody asked me about BlackBerry, I know

714
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,320
this is the other rigged judge. Basically it's a riff on

715
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,920
the game Mafia that every Gen Z so how does it. So then

716
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,240
what happens is there's scoring the various rounds. There's some scoring that's going on and

717
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:42,130
what does the score represent? The scoring of the wine, the scoring of the person

718
00:43:42,130 --> 00:43:45,370
that you. It could, it could be, it could be whether you get, you get

719
00:43:45,370 --> 00:43:49,090
answers right on these trip some of the trivia questions. It

720
00:43:49,090 --> 00:43:52,650
could be whether you pick the particular wine. And

721
00:43:52,650 --> 00:43:56,449
then at the end of the four rounds, through the four rounds

722
00:43:56,449 --> 00:44:00,250
also you're voting people off the island basically there's a, there's

723
00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:03,370
a bit of like well you know, I really think he's a rigged judge because

724
00:44:03,370 --> 00:44:05,690
of this and that. Now he may be an honest judge but you want to

725
00:44:05,690 --> 00:44:09,440
get rid of him because you know he's against you in the game. And

726
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,680
so you're, you're lying and saying well he's obviously, you saw what he said about

727
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,240
the BlackBerry and he knows something that he's not supposed to know. You know,

728
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,200
you're playing games with each other which is stealth education. Right. You know, because you

729
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,680
find out what's true and what's not true. Right. But

730
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,360
then this all came from my daughter and a friend of hers.

731
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,880
You know, these are a couple Gen Z kids both having the idea because they

732
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,300
know they want to talk about wine for four hours. Right. You got to put

733
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:38,420
a mystery in here, you know. You ever played mafia? And I said yeah, I

734
00:44:38,420 --> 00:44:42,260
played mafia in five different, 5,000 different variations of it. But

735
00:44:42,260 --> 00:44:46,020
it's a game where every kid under a certain age knows how

736
00:44:46,020 --> 00:44:49,860
to play it and you learn it inside two seconds where you're

737
00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:53,340
trying to get. There are three people on that are mafia and then

738
00:44:53,340 --> 00:44:56,860
everybody else is. Is a villager and everybody. You're

739
00:44:56,940 --> 00:44:59,980
the mafia guys win if they kill all the villagers and the

740
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,040
villagers win if they nail the three mafia guys. But you're going from clues

741
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,880
from the people and all that and we just put content on top of

742
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,640
that. But it's basic very play pattern. So you're doing that

743
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,360
in between the Wine tastings, which just kind of makes it fun because the

744
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,640
whole thing, any kind of social game is people get people talking to each other.

745
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,800
Yeah. Right. That otherwise wouldn't be talking to each other. So you have that element.

746
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,480
And then wine loosens the lips a little bit. Exactly. And then round five,

747
00:45:26,110 --> 00:45:29,830
which is after the four rounds, round five, all the bottles.

748
00:45:29,830 --> 00:45:33,310
All the bottles of wine are switched into other bags. And you're.

749
00:45:33,470 --> 00:45:36,750
Now you're trying to say. Well, I think. I think wine one

750
00:45:37,310 --> 00:45:41,070
was Ryan number two last time. Wine three is

751
00:45:41,230 --> 00:45:44,950
Ryan number four. Wow. In other words, it makes it really the second

752
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:48,670
time. Yeah. Randy trying to get one right. Jody nailed it. You

753
00:45:48,670 --> 00:45:51,710
know, and you get more points for. You get points for. For getting those right.

754
00:45:52,540 --> 00:45:56,060
Most really experienced wine people, if they've tasted enough, there's only four

755
00:45:56,060 --> 00:45:59,740
bottles should be. Let's say. Yeah. Yes. Yes. But it's not always,

756
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:04,300
you know, Jody get nailed it. I got

757
00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:08,300
you. Right. And the last time we played the game, he took

758
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:11,980
me many and a guy. Look, I know it's very difficult to do

759
00:46:11,980 --> 00:46:15,540
anyway. Okay. Right. The wine to

760
00:46:15,540 --> 00:46:19,280
cans in the meantime too. Yeah, of course it'll change. Yeah. Let's. Let's

761
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,760
talk the business of wine for the business of this of games. You know, very

762
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,520
popular show on history is the. The games that changed America are the games that

763
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,320
change the world. The food, all that. And they've all these amazing

764
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,280
games that we grew up with have peculiar histories.

765
00:46:34,399 --> 00:46:38,200
But now we have things like Kickstarter. So you can. You can put that up

766
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,000
there. What do you get for Kickstarter for contributing the way. The way

767
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,280
it works. The way it works on. The reason people do Kickstarter in general

768
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,760
is you need to show the. Like the Bev.

769
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,480
Let's say it's BevMo or Total Wine or the Wine Club. You have to

770
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,240
show the world that this is something that's viable that people

771
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:01,080
like. Right. So that's part of the reason why games

772
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,920
are actually really successful on Kickstarter. I didn't know this a year ago. I

773
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,480
realized this when we start to work with Flint is that

774
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:12,000
it's been very successful on Kickstarter. The whole game concept.

775
00:47:12,850 --> 00:47:16,690
And so what happens on this is we're selling the game

776
00:47:16,690 --> 00:47:19,730
at a reduced price because we want people to

777
00:47:20,850 --> 00:47:24,690
buy the game and then we can show the world, hey, this is really

778
00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:26,770
viable. And this is how this

779
00:47:28,690 --> 00:47:32,530
somebody put up money to prove. Yeah. Well, we have the game.

780
00:47:32,530 --> 00:47:36,050
We have a step of the game. We have the prototypes. And what we'll do

781
00:47:36,050 --> 00:47:39,860
is we're deciding whether we print, you know, 500 games or we're making

782
00:47:39,860 --> 00:47:43,460
a thousand copies. And then ultimately, is this

783
00:47:43,460 --> 00:47:46,980
something that's sold at retail? And if so, where is it sold? At wine shops?

784
00:47:46,980 --> 00:47:50,540
Is it sold the wineries. Okay, do we do custom scenarios of the game for

785
00:47:50,540 --> 00:47:54,300
the winery where you're doing an Agatha Christie at, you know, a winery

786
00:47:54,300 --> 00:47:57,820
that, you know, wants to sponsor, you know, that kind of thing? Because

787
00:47:58,060 --> 00:48:01,900
I've had many people sit in the chair that come into the wine world

788
00:48:02,060 --> 00:48:05,350
and they think they have a better idea, but the wine world is like 12,000

789
00:48:05,350 --> 00:48:09,150
years old. And there's. Yeah, there's not too many new ideas, but their ideas

790
00:48:09,230 --> 00:48:12,350
today are mostly contemporarily packaging them. Right. Like.

791
00:48:12,830 --> 00:48:16,230
Like tetra packs or small bottles or things that aren't

792
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:20,030
revolutionary. It's always about what's in the glass. And the reason I said that was

793
00:48:21,630 --> 00:48:25,390
they. They clearly don't care. So they're

794
00:48:25,390 --> 00:48:29,150
building a brand around a packaging so that they can

795
00:48:29,150 --> 00:48:33,000
build it up and sell it to and take, you know, sell off some market

796
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,560
share. You know, get some market share, sell back. Is that happen in the game

797
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,320
business where you. Well, that's not really what we're up to. Mount Milton Bradley. Even

798
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,880
if they even exist anymore. The other part of Hasbro now. But yeah, they still

799
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,440
exist. Well, I mean, like everything else, you know, the game business

800
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,560
is kind of in. Well, the

801
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:54,160
tabletop game business has been booming lately, you know, since COVID

802
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:57,600
and. And all that. And people actually want to be around. It's like the vinyl

803
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,360
record business just came back. Yeah, all the businesses. Yeah,

804
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,100
all the entertain businesses are having their own kind of crisis right now and

805
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:08,780
in their own nature. And, you know,

806
00:49:08,860 --> 00:49:12,060
and I mean, with Bottle Shock, what's great about is, first of all, the. The

807
00:49:12,060 --> 00:49:15,860
title sounds like a game. Yeah, right. You know, and I mean, you know, there's

808
00:49:15,860 --> 00:49:19,700
the System Shock and Bioshock and, you know, that's good. You

809
00:49:19,700 --> 00:49:22,500
know, games that are not that many. I mean, people expected to be, you know,

810
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,500
you're throwing bottles at people. We're not. We're going to dissuade them from that. But

811
00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:29,940
the, you know, so, I mean, games are

812
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:33,740
like. They're just great to superimpose on stuff.

813
00:49:33,740 --> 00:49:37,500
I mean, you know, you know, everything's about gamification right now. And,

814
00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:41,940
you know, and. And with this, it just gets you to notice

815
00:49:41,940 --> 00:49:45,380
it and play it. It gives you a reason to care. Even that's an extrinsic

816
00:49:45,380 --> 00:49:49,180
reason until you know enough to intrinsically care It's

817
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:51,860
a great. It's a. It's just a great way to have a party. It's got

818
00:49:51,860 --> 00:49:55,190
so many angles, so many fresh angles, and it's. I think it's gonna be a

819
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:58,950
refreshing shot in the arm for the industry. The

820
00:49:58,950 --> 00:50:02,790
industry of wine is in bad, bad place, and

821
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:06,510
there's a lot of reasons for it and bore you with them now. But online

822
00:50:06,590 --> 00:50:10,310
sales are off. I didn't. I didn't sell my company because I was making

823
00:50:10,310 --> 00:50:13,870
too much money. Yeah. And, you know, so

824
00:50:14,110 --> 00:50:17,550
I think this is an opportunity, really potentially huge

825
00:50:17,550 --> 00:50:21,160
opportunity for. To get

826
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,280
wine into the hands of people that really have been intimidated by

827
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,720
it. They get to play a game, and they realize it's not so intimidating. Yeah,

828
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:32,400
well, it would be. The dream would be, obviously, to be this game sitting

829
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,240
there at BevMo or Trader Joe's or wherever, you know, and

830
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:40,000
people pick up eight bottles of wine to play this game. So,

831
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,800
like, the vintners and all the wine people, you know, they're like, hey,

832
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,430
let's be the bottle shock this week of our flight of

833
00:50:48,430 --> 00:50:52,110
wine. We can't sell alcohol. Obviously, we're in the game business. But, I mean, I

834
00:50:52,110 --> 00:50:55,670
would love to see, you know, because if. If people would, you know, brand

835
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:59,510
different bottles of wine, they have, you know, you know, certain ways or label

836
00:50:59,510 --> 00:51:03,310
them certain ways, we could actually use them as game objects and then their whole

837
00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:07,350
other, you know, parts of it. I mean, it started with those, remember, 13 crimes

838
00:51:07,350 --> 00:51:10,590
when you. Yeah, right. Ar thing where you're looking at the guy. I mean, I

839
00:51:10,590 --> 00:51:14,170
have no idea whether the wine's greater. Kidney squeeze. But what I do know

840
00:51:14,170 --> 00:51:17,970
is it got me to stop. I liked it in my aisle

841
00:51:17,970 --> 00:51:21,770
at the. Sorry, I'm giving an evil eye because you said I liked it. Yeah,

842
00:51:21,770 --> 00:51:25,530
right. That's a technical term. Right. Kidney squeeze. I'm not sure

843
00:51:25,530 --> 00:51:28,890
about that, but it got me to stop in the aisle, you know, Ral, you

844
00:51:28,890 --> 00:51:32,050
know, hold up my thing. Oh, wow. The guy's talking to me. Well, I mean,

845
00:51:32,050 --> 00:51:35,810
imagine you start. You. Because wine needs to get its mystique back. You

846
00:51:35,810 --> 00:51:39,420
know, the problem is anything that turns into a commodity is. Has no

847
00:51:39,420 --> 00:51:43,100
mystique. I mean, that's why people want vinyl records now.

848
00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:46,460
They. I mean, you know, you want. You want to own the physical object and

849
00:51:46,460 --> 00:51:49,660
sit around there and read the lyrics like you're looking at the Rosetta stone back

850
00:51:49,660 --> 00:51:53,180
like we used to, and, you know, we'd buy a record. You know, it's also,

851
00:51:53,180 --> 00:51:56,900
I have to say, really validating. Yeah. Because it validates Your own

852
00:51:56,980 --> 00:52:00,580
taste. Yeah. Right. Yes. Because we have played the game several times

853
00:52:00,820 --> 00:52:04,660
where we were shocked by our community assessment of

854
00:52:04,660 --> 00:52:08,090
the wines, which had nothing to do with the price point. And now you realize

855
00:52:08,090 --> 00:52:11,890
you want bottles and James. Wine coolers. No, but I mean it. But, I

856
00:52:11,890 --> 00:52:15,690
mean. Yes, you're tasting things at all different levels, you know, and

857
00:52:15,690 --> 00:52:18,730
you're saying, oh, I get it. What's the difference here? Well, that's what you hope

858
00:52:18,730 --> 00:52:22,530
happens. Yeah, we hope happens. And this is something very important

859
00:52:23,250 --> 00:52:26,970
because my philosophy. And I've done this 35 years. I

860
00:52:26,970 --> 00:52:30,610
sold 17 million bottles of wine in my career. I've tasted a hundred thousand.

861
00:52:30,690 --> 00:52:34,500
So I. I learned something. Yes, A lot, but I learned something.

862
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:38,340
Well, at 10,000 hours, you'd already learned. Yeah, exactly. So I think

863
00:52:38,340 --> 00:52:42,020
what's happening, and this is very important for the game, that we are going back

864
00:52:42,020 --> 00:52:45,660
to my dad's era of the experiential side of

865
00:52:45,660 --> 00:52:49,460
wine. Yes. You saying I bought a bottle of wine on the Internet for three

866
00:52:49,460 --> 00:52:53,020
bucks through Groupon is not an experience. And it's not a story. It's not a

867
00:52:53,020 --> 00:52:55,980
story you want to tell at dinner time. Is there a less romantic story you

868
00:52:55,980 --> 00:52:59,660
can tell? Because that's. What's the other thing Great. About

869
00:52:59,660 --> 00:53:03,090
Bottle Shock is what's the wine really about? It's like you're the

870
00:53:03,090 --> 00:53:06,810
afternoon. You're sitting out there with the beautiful blonde, and she's trying to

871
00:53:06,810 --> 00:53:09,890
wine and, hey, you know what? Yeah, well,

872
00:53:10,610 --> 00:53:13,890
that day. But that was a different day. That was like. It was cloudy, and

873
00:53:14,050 --> 00:53:17,770
we were kind of inside a different day. But, you know, the. You know,

874
00:53:17,770 --> 00:53:21,290
I mean, but it's attaching the whole romance to it. Yeah, no, that's true. You

875
00:53:21,290 --> 00:53:25,050
know, it's the most important part of it. Yeah. And. And they don't want

876
00:53:25,050 --> 00:53:28,900
to, you know, and. And that's very hard to sell at three bucks on

877
00:53:28,900 --> 00:53:32,620
the Internet, it doesn't exist. There's no story behind it. And people get. Well,

878
00:53:32,620 --> 00:53:36,260
I'll tell you a funny story. I tasted. I was written up by Punch

879
00:53:36,340 --> 00:53:40,100
Drink, the online beverage site. She came and actually

880
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:43,860
watched me taste one day, and I said, let's taste this. Somebody sent me a

881
00:53:43,860 --> 00:53:47,620
sample in between the regular crowd that comes in, and it was Saturday

882
00:53:47,780 --> 00:53:51,340
Night Live Beaujolais. It's called 10 Live

883
00:53:51,340 --> 00:53:55,150
Beaujolais. It was bottle for something for Saturday Live, and

884
00:53:55,150 --> 00:53:58,150
it was a current vintage. It wasn't like. Because Beaujolais doesn't last long in the

885
00:53:58,150 --> 00:54:01,990
bottle, but it was Beaujolais from France. And we opened it, and it was horrible.

886
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:06,310
And I thought to myself, the poor person that bought this wine at the store,

887
00:54:06,310 --> 00:54:08,990
wherever they want, oh, we're going to celebrate Saturday Night Live. We're going to watch

888
00:54:08,990 --> 00:54:12,830
the show, we'll pour a glass of wine. Cannot tell the

889
00:54:12,830 --> 00:54:16,590
story like this is great because it's not. And so the whole

890
00:54:16,590 --> 00:54:19,000
thing blew up in their face that they bought this wine in the first place.

891
00:54:19,550 --> 00:54:23,190
And that's we. And I think part of that going to the wine

892
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:26,590
side of this, what I heard in Bordeaux this last trip was

893
00:54:27,630 --> 00:54:31,110
just these people need to stay the course. You can't

894
00:54:31,110 --> 00:54:34,790
deviate from your, your plan, your idea for what you want

895
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:38,510
to produce in the vineyard. Get in the bottle. The industry

896
00:54:38,510 --> 00:54:41,950
will come around to it. When you do things where you experience

897
00:54:42,190 --> 00:54:45,390
it enough and people go, wow, this was really something interest.

898
00:54:46,190 --> 00:54:49,670
Putting a kidney sweet on the shelf in front of with and putting a Snoop

899
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:53,350
Dogg's picture on it, you know, is not the experience that people are looking for

900
00:54:53,350 --> 00:54:56,910
with wine. And so you're giving a chance with this game for people to experience.

901
00:54:57,550 --> 00:55:00,910
Yes. Make it fun and then

902
00:55:00,910 --> 00:55:04,670
communicate it. Yeah, because that's the other thing that's happened when you turn the wine

903
00:55:04,670 --> 00:55:07,670
into poetry. You know, I mean, we have people doing slogans, we have people doing.

904
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:10,830
Yeah. You know, some of the people we had. Amazing. I love that

905
00:55:11,230 --> 00:55:15,030
stuff. It was crazy. They were saying stuff. That's what this age is about. I

906
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:18,490
mean, ever since AI came in rem, everybody was supposed to get a degree in,

907
00:55:18,650 --> 00:55:22,490
you know, STEM, you know, for the last 20 years. Okay, AI,

908
00:55:22,730 --> 00:55:26,130
whoever writes the best prompt wins. Who are you going to recruit for jobs next

909
00:55:26,130 --> 00:55:29,730
year? Yeah, right. Find every poet you can available. That, that is

910
00:55:29,730 --> 00:55:33,370
who's going to write AI. Okay. And we're in an age now where we have

911
00:55:33,370 --> 00:55:37,170
to connect with our, our emotions and our feelings, which is actually

912
00:55:37,170 --> 00:55:40,970
all we care about and communicate it to other people and have fun doing

913
00:55:40,970 --> 00:55:44,650
it, you know, because if you're, if you're not having fun doing it,

914
00:55:44,650 --> 00:55:47,470
I see that it's not worth doing. Right. I see that. And all of a

915
00:55:47,470 --> 00:55:50,830
sudden you're putting the fun back into it. But all the components of fun,

916
00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:54,830
you know, I mean, yeah, we could do a module of it that's a stand

917
00:55:54,830 --> 00:55:58,470
up comedian module that has jokes on the back of the, of the

918
00:55:58,470 --> 00:56:01,870
bottle where, you know, you're, you could do the wine roast if you wanted to,

919
00:56:02,110 --> 00:56:05,790
but. And that, you know, that may be, you know, you know, fifth expansion

920
00:56:05,790 --> 00:56:09,590
pack, but, you know, it involves a lot more

921
00:56:09,590 --> 00:56:13,230
wine. We'll get the really big pour Pour. Measure. Yeah. That's a different kind of

922
00:56:13,230 --> 00:56:16,900
wine. That's like, you know, that's eight ounce pour, you

923
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:20,580
know. But I mean, you can go endless directions with

924
00:56:20,580 --> 00:56:24,340
this, but it's all about people relating to and wine.

925
00:56:24,340 --> 00:56:28,140
You're shooting fish in a barrel because it's innately social. You share a bottle

926
00:56:28,140 --> 00:56:31,860
of wine with people. And honestly, we've done

927
00:56:31,860 --> 00:56:35,660
tests where somebody wanted. Didn't know anything about wine. They were just really good

928
00:56:36,060 --> 00:56:39,820
at playing the game. Yeah. The game part of it

929
00:56:39,820 --> 00:56:43,660
was great wine. Part game, part, you know,

930
00:56:43,660 --> 00:56:46,920
hidden identity, all that stuff people like to. It's a key component. You have to

931
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,760
have that. Yeah. You have somebody. Yeah, yeah. All of a sudden

932
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,400
it's something for. I mean, we have people, friends that have allergies

933
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,240
to wine. Have friends that, you know, are an aa. They can be there

934
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:01,840
too, you know, doing the mystery part of the game or the other

935
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,520
social part of the game. Wow. And so you're not booting anybody out of

936
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,360
the experience, which is good because you bring people into the

937
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,300
wine world that don't have a. You know. Well, it's going

938
00:57:13,300 --> 00:57:16,620
to be. I think I just read that it's going to be the final exam

939
00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:20,060
for the master sommelier test, that you play the game and win it. And that's

940
00:57:20,060 --> 00:57:23,020
how, you know, we do have the master sommelier

941
00:57:23,580 --> 00:57:27,020
edition coming out. Yeah, that's. That's the ultimate stretch

942
00:57:27,340 --> 00:57:31,020
for all three of them that exist in the world. You know, you gotta. That's.

943
00:57:31,660 --> 00:57:35,180
We've conquered that audience think they are.

944
00:57:35,180 --> 00:57:38,820
That's. That's the target market for that. But we're already on an

945
00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:42,210
hour. Oh, if you can believe that. I would like to do this again.

946
00:57:42,610 --> 00:57:46,450
Yeah. And peel it back a little further as. As the campaign gets

947
00:57:46,450 --> 00:57:50,290
going. As I play the game at my home. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

948
00:57:50,530 --> 00:57:53,730
Because I just think about all the variations. What have. I know it so far.

949
00:57:53,730 --> 00:57:57,330
You know, the. The four wines. You could structure the game

950
00:57:57,330 --> 00:58:00,930
around like just very special things.

951
00:58:00,930 --> 00:58:04,770
Very like, let's say Armenian wine. I'm Armenian. Yeah. There's a whole new culture

952
00:58:04,770 --> 00:58:08,210
of Armenian wine. And so you could play it under different cultures. You play

953
00:58:08,290 --> 00:58:11,390
absolutely different regions. Yes. Yeah. No, the tipsy

954
00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:15,190
gypsy one, that worked perfectly. You know. You know, I mean. Yeah, you

955
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:18,430
can. But the host can say crooks in the wine business. Yeah. Crooks in the

956
00:58:18,430 --> 00:58:22,150
wine business. Yeah. And the host could say, I want to have all four

957
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:25,469
Armenian wines tonight. Yeah. Or I want to have this. And then. And then the.

958
00:58:25,469 --> 00:58:28,510
The people who go that are part of the game, they Go find that wine.

959
00:58:28,510 --> 00:58:32,030
They go out, destroy the wine. That's. That's another part, the experience of going

960
00:58:32,030 --> 00:58:35,390
shopping, talking. They told me to find a cabernet that's like this. You get to

961
00:58:35,390 --> 00:58:39,020
talk about it. Yeah. And you build up the lore for all these wines, because

962
00:58:39,020 --> 00:58:42,300
you got to encourage them to do that, because they have to build the mystery

963
00:58:42,300 --> 00:58:45,340
in the lore. I mean, you know, where I learned a lot about. You know,

964
00:58:45,340 --> 00:58:48,860
I mean, where I learned most things in life, but especially this was in the

965
00:58:48,860 --> 00:58:52,700
frat house. Okay. Our idea of what to serve at frat parties.

966
00:58:52,700 --> 00:58:56,380
Pour it all together, trash can, zombie, all that

967
00:58:56,380 --> 00:58:59,780
stuff. Right. We did that. Then one of the. Our social chairman said, we're gonna

968
00:58:59,780 --> 00:59:03,020
have a wine and cheese party. He was relentlessly. Matter of fact, he was known

969
00:59:03,020 --> 00:59:06,270
as Wine and cheese for the rest of the time. He was in college. However,

970
00:59:06,590 --> 00:59:10,390
you know, all of a sudden, sorority girls showed up, actually wanted

971
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:13,870
to be there. Nobody was having any vomiting for distance contest in the

972
00:59:13,870 --> 00:59:17,710
backyard. Yeah. That was actually a very civil, civilized night. Yeah. So

973
00:59:17,710 --> 00:59:20,670
where was this? That was at Berkeley. Oh, berserkley. Yeah.

974
00:59:21,150 --> 00:59:24,510
Imagine a berserkly frat in the 70s. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.

975
00:59:24,830 --> 00:59:28,550
Yeah. And, yeah, the. The house had three previously

976
00:59:28,550 --> 00:59:32,110
been thrown off campus because they put something other than wine in their punch, and

977
00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:38,260
we have a whole separate conversation. Yeah, there's a lot of that. USC

978
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:42,060
was a very different experience. Yeah. Well, we'll get into it. Yeah,

979
00:59:42,220 --> 00:59:46,060
yeah. You know, there was. It would be fun. And I'll close with this, but

980
00:59:46,060 --> 00:59:49,820
be fun. You know Rudy Kirwan, the guy that's got thrown in. Yeah,

981
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:53,740
yeah. He's back at it, apparently. And so

982
00:59:53,740 --> 00:59:57,140
I got a text from a friend who's out in Singapore at the time, this

983
00:59:57,140 --> 01:00:00,660
is recently, shopping money for a real estate deal. And he had dinner with

984
01:00:00,660 --> 01:00:04,440
Rudy, and he had this. He had this idea. Back to doing wine again.

985
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:08,200
Yeah. He's not in jail anymore. No, no, he's back. He's back in Thailand or

986
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,080
wherever he's from. And so

987
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,160
the guy's idea was, what if we created a brand around

988
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,920
Rudy's formulas and called them Rudy's Lafitte and Rudy's Margaux

989
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,680
and Rudy's Beaujolais, you know, and people would buy this because

990
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,480
it's just. Because it's a fraudulent. Yeah, right. So there could be the

991
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,760
Rudy Kirwan version. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

992
01:00:30,550 --> 01:00:33,790
The game gives you all the kinds of different hustles. So. Fun stuff. That's the

993
01:00:33,790 --> 01:00:37,630
fun of it. Yeah. Yeah. Con artists we even have wine detection agencies that

994
01:00:37,630 --> 01:00:41,070
may or may not exist in the real world. And you know that, know that

995
01:00:41,070 --> 01:00:44,470
there are people that are, you know, that's actually a very popular thing.

996
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:47,670
Yeah. Well, great to have you folks in. I don't want to take any more

997
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:51,510
of your time, but I, I, I suspect we'll get together again. Sounds good. Yeah.

998
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:56,310
Have some fun with this. Yeah. And I would love to see comments from

999
01:00:56,310 --> 01:00:59,910
the, the listeners too, you know. Yes. If they have good ideas, we'll appropriate them.

1000
01:00:59,910 --> 01:01:03,450
Yeah, of course. Give them no credit, but. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be good. I'll

1001
01:01:03,450 --> 01:01:07,290
publish it shortly and then we'll, we'll gather that up and, and it's available

1002
01:01:07,290 --> 01:01:10,570
right now on Kickstart. Everybody should just go get it. It's great. Yeah. I mean,

1003
01:01:10,570 --> 01:01:14,130
yeah. Bottle Shock, the wine game.

1004
01:01:14,530 --> 01:01:18,290
It's pretty creative about the title. Yeah. The Mystery Is

1005
01:01:18,290 --> 01:01:21,170
the The Judgment of Sand. Elena. Yes.

1006
01:01:21,730 --> 01:01:24,210
Cheers. Thank you. Thank you for having us.