Admittedly Lazy Until She Found Wine And Hospitality. Meet Master Somm Stefanie Hehn

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When we do some trainings with the staff, I tell the

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people we are not order taker. We should

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surprise the people that they get a special

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moment. We create really special moment. The people

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should not forget that they have a reason to come back. You should not

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be the superstar. You should feel them

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that they are the superhero. When they are coming,

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sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks

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with Paul. Kate. Hey. Welcome to Wine Talks

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with Paul Keane. We are in studio today at a blustery day here in Monrovia

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in Southern California. About to have a conversation with Stephanie Henn from

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Hamburg, Germany. She's the lead psalm at the five star Fontenay

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Hotel as well as a master som introductions in just a second

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you have a listen to a couple shows coming out. I have one show

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that kind of blends immigration to America with the

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pursuit of a wine career. This is with

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Zaya Yunan and that's coming out soon. So have a listen to that but

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not while we're here today. Here a conversation with Stephanie. Welcome to the show.

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Thank you. Hi. You know, we were just talking

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about Germany and, and the German wine scene and it's,

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you know, I don't know that the American market is, is tuned

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to it right now. We seem to go through cycles with, with

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Riesling in particular, but other German wines as well, that

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they were very popular. When I first started doing this in 1988 with my father,

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we, we sought, you know, great Rieslings to present

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to our customers and then they kind of fade away, they come back is how

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is that market in Germany? Do we see the ebb

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and flow of Riesling or because it's sort of the noble grape of Germany. It's

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a rather steady appreciation. I think it's.

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It was still. There was a time when

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it gets really fancy,

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maybe it was three years ago that the people really

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have been crazy about old Riesling and

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Riesling was really famous and now the people

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are again interested in other great varieties. I think

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at the moment it's really nice when they

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have some Pinot Noirs. That's upward

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trend that the people are interested about the quality

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of the German Pinots and what we do, we

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sometimes try to do some things which are not

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in fashion at the moment. We show a

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Sylvana from Germany. If you have international

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customers that can be really interesting for them because

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our German wine institute,

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they are just pushing Riesling and Pinot Noir international

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and Silvana is a great variety. What is a little bit

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different because it's just grown in Germany and in

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the Alsace and a little bit in the north of Italy. But it's

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a really good structured grape and it's a wine

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what you can show in. In restaurants

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with food. If you don't want to change for

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red wine for main course. Silvana can be a really good

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possibility to drink one wine for a whole menu.

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And yeah, we do it

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sometimes in the win wine caring and yeah,

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I think this is really good. You said something

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interesting about German Wine Academy.

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Yeah, and we were just talking about my father's certificate

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to a seven day class called the German.

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I forgot the name of it. It was the Wine Institute, I think. If the

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Wine Institute. Right. So. But you're. You're a master song which

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is the pent ultimate degree of. From the court of

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sommeliers. And I know there are not a lot of women

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that have this degree. There's one right here in my neighborhood, Elizabeth Schweitzer. She's

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been certified for years. She used to work here actually

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Wine of the Month club. But what, you know, why did you do

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that? What was the pursuit? Was your family

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in wine? Were you in wine? Was there just

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hospitality? Seemed like an interesting place to go. Yeah,

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it was. I was a lazy student,

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so. Well, it's nice to admit that, you know.

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So I finished school after 10 years and thought

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working would be easier. Then I started

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doing a training program in

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the hospitality industry in a little hotel.

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I'm born in a vine area. I'm born in Flanken,

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so that's where the Silvana is coming from as well.

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But I'm coming from a spa city. So

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we have a lot of mineral water. Where I'm grown up

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and around the city there are some

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vineyards. So in the place where I did my

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trainee program there was a one star Michelin restaurant

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with a really good. The owner was really good

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because we always had to try what we

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served. And then I thought why do we serve

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this wine with this course? Where is this

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food coming from? And this was really the story behind

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everything was so interesting that I started

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learning. And because I was so lazy, I wanted to have a

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graduation when I learned I wanted to have something.

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Yeah, you're very humble about this laziness.

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And then I started when I was finished after you

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in Germany you do this training program for three years.

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And afterwards I. I moved to other place

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in a two star Michelin restaurant. And then I started

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working together with a good summary and already

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focused on studying about wine. And

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then with. I think I was 21 or 22.

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When I first signed for a German

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sommelier program and

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this was. They. They told me in three months it's, you can

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have your exam and then

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your sommelier and. But this was just a little drop on.

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On the mountain or a little drop on

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a hot stone. It was just the beginning of.

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And then when I was finished with this program, I thought, okay,

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let's continue and go on. And then I

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started with the call of master sommelier program.

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And then I thought, okay, entry level, the

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introductory and certified. Okay, it's nice, let's

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continue. Advance is really

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good. So with the advance, it took me.

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I had to go four times. No,

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it was the third attempt. Then I passed.

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So it took me three times to pass the

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advanced exam. And I thought that would be the

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highest level I could reach. And I was happy

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with it because during that time I was working in a

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freestyle Michelin restaurant as I had sommelier full time.

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And then I thought, okay, maybe I'm not clever enough.

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And advance is okay, it's good. Not that

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much people on the market who have this

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graduation. And then I'm stopping.

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Advance is the, the level just before master.

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Yeah, and it is, but it's kind of

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difficult because you have to pass your

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exam during three days and you have to pass

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all the three parts, the tasting, the

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theory and the practical. So you have to

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prepare everything and if the

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first day is okay and then the

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next night you, you have the pressure for.

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And it's just in one year that you have to pass. And that was

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always when you are already tired. Because when you work in a

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freestyle Michelin restaurant, sometimes it can happen that you are

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tired. Yeah. Let me ask you, let's stop you there for a second.

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Is that, was that a surprise that when you got

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into being a master sawman running the wine

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program at a three star restaurant, that, that, that amount of work.

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And the reason I brought this up is I have very close friends

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in the industry, of course, and they, they all work

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in different types of locations where some get to go home at 8 o' clock

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every night and some don't. And some work till

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midnight. They got to clean up whatever they got to do. So was that a

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surprise for you that there was so much effort to put into being the

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lead psalm in a 3 star restaurant?

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Not really. It was. I, I knew

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before that you have to work a lot, but

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yeah, it was and I

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enjoyed the work because it was really on a high level.

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And I think fine wine with really

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high quality of food that was it was so exciting to

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have every day working with a crazy guy

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in the kitchen who has good ideas every day and

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serving food out of trees. That was more than.

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I was so happy to see how the people can be

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excited about eating and drinking. So I did never

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think about that. This is a hard work for me.

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But afterwards it was just

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difficult for me that if you do this job,

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you don't really have enough time in your,

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yeah. You don't have spare time to study and,

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but you were lazy your life. But you're

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a lazy student. How did you do this? I mean, yeah, I, I, it was,

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I, I, I had to tell my

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chef in that time that I'm going to leave because I wanted

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to push for the master summary exam. And then I

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just quit the job. Wow.

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And, but that was, I was already five

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years there. And he could

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understand it because for him it was the dream to

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achieve the three star. And then he said, I

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can't say stay if you want to follow your

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dreams and if you think you

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don't have enough time in your head to

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be concentrated for studying. And then I

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think it was the best decision because it was long.

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You should not work your whole life in a

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free star or for me, I should not work in a

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freestyle Michelin restaurant for my whole life because

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I also want to live my life. Yeah. And not just

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to help other people be happy. I like

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to see how happy they are. And I love.

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And that's still, I think it was also, even if

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that was a hard time, it was also a good preparation for

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the rest of my life because, and even for the

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preparation for the master so many exam because I knew

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that you, if you go push a little bit harder, it's, it

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can be worth it. And you can

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do more than you think you can. You can.

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It's like if you prepare for a mother marathon,

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you, you can, yeah, you can push yourself more.

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Sometimes you think, okay, after 25 minutes, I'm

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done. But if you, if you continue training,

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you can be faster and you can do it

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longer. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. Those are interesting thoughts.

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I, you said a lot of things I want to kind of peel back here.

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One of them is, and I don't think this is

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unusual that you might choose if you're going to be in a

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three star environment that you might be choosing between

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pure your whole life being about hospitality. Yeah.

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And your, and the rest of your life. I mean that. And it

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seems like in today's environment, in order for three star restaurants to

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exist with all the social changes and all the different post Covid

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problems that. That they need to be more

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efficient. They need to get the maximum value from their employees

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and they need to maximize all the parts of their business. And that just

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requires a complete commitment on the part of let's just say

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the master Psalm or the psalm of the restaurant. And I.

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And I sensed that we were at Tour d' Argent in Paris

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a few weeks ago and. And I was looking around, watching the staff

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and paying attention to the psalm and how he was working. I thought wow, this

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is a serious commitment of your life

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to hospitality to be. And you called it

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fine dine or high level of dining. Is that.

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Is that the way it feels these days to be in that environment?

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I think it's

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really. Yeah. I still love

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this work. So we

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are still having here good

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restaurant in the hotel. We started in

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2018 with the opening. So the good

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thing after I left and I. After I started

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with my preparations for my master exams

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I had the opportunity to come to Hamburg. So the

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freestyle was in Bavaria and I moved to Hamburg

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and then I had had the chance to

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do a opening of a five star hotel

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as a handsomely with an empty wine cellar.

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So that was. Wow. Normally we don't really do like

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a. We don't write a master.

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Yeah, like the master. Like the

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master of wine they have to write an essay.

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But for the master somebody's we. Our theory

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part is just. Yeah. Kind of practical.

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We just speak, we don't write. But what I did

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I. For my preparations I could write a wine list

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for a five star hotel with

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two restaurants and two bars just

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from zero. And I could do an international

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wine list and I could. Nobody told me what

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I should put on this. It was just carte blanche

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and they trusted me that I am not going to

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spend too much money and that I will do

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it as the people like to drink.

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I think and that was a cool thing. Too much money for. I'm

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00:15:34,690 --> 00:15:37,610
sorry to interrupt you but I think too much money for a restaurant tour or

248
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hotel is a whole lot different than too much money to the Psalm. Who's

249
00:15:41,330 --> 00:15:44,930
putting together the list? Right. I mean this. Yeah. What were your thoughts

250
00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:48,520
when you were doing this list? This is a very interesting point because there's a

251
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,600
whole. I don't know if you're aware of some of the socialized issues with

252
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,200
they're calling it dumbing down wine and we need to change the language and I

253
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,960
don't agree with any of it. But it's interesting that you had to start from

254
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,640
scratch, create a list. What were your thoughts?

255
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,480
Because I mean, did you know who the Hamburg five

256
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,280
star hotel or the Hotel Fontenay. Yeah.

257
00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:16,250
Client was? Yes. Or you were doing a sort of looking at

258
00:16:16,250 --> 00:16:19,290
the whole industry of wine and say I need to represent it all. What were

259
00:16:19,290 --> 00:16:22,530
you thinking? I thought because before I was in

260
00:16:22,530 --> 00:16:26,330
Bavaria, I was working in a five star

261
00:16:26,330 --> 00:16:30,010
hotel in Hamburg as a sommelier. Not as the head sommelier,

262
00:16:30,010 --> 00:16:33,730
but I was working in the sommelier team. And so I thought,

263
00:16:33,730 --> 00:16:37,530
okay, I know what the people are drinking. And I knew

264
00:16:37,530 --> 00:16:41,290
that a lot of people have been also

265
00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:44,090
visiting the place where I have been before.

266
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So. And during my tastings I,

267
00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:53,050
when I did my blind tastings, I had already a lot of wines

268
00:16:53,050 --> 00:16:55,850
in my, in my mind, which I wanted to buy.

269
00:16:56,890 --> 00:17:00,490
Because when you travel and yeah, when you,

270
00:17:01,610 --> 00:17:05,450
yeah. Go somewhere, it's in the wine areas you,

271
00:17:05,450 --> 00:17:09,270
you won. You already write down and you remember

272
00:17:09,830 --> 00:17:13,110
years afterwards that this

273
00:17:13,430 --> 00:17:17,190
wine should be nice on that place or and in Hamburg. The

274
00:17:17,190 --> 00:17:20,950
good thing is we are in the north of Germany, so we don't have

275
00:17:20,950 --> 00:17:24,790
any wine areas around. The people who

276
00:17:24,790 --> 00:17:28,510
are living in Hamburg is. They are

277
00:17:28,510 --> 00:17:31,030
open minded because it's a harbor town.

278
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,240
So you can bring wines from all over the world

279
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,040
because they don't really care if the wines travel by

280
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,080
ship. That's a good thing.

281
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,880
And then I thought that would be also really cool for my

282
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,640
preparations because I need to study about all.

283
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,360
Because I'm lazy. And then I had the

284
00:17:56,360 --> 00:18:00,060
reason to study about all the wine areas about. Of the world

285
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:04,540
and to think about which wineries are

286
00:18:04,860 --> 00:18:08,500
interesting wherever. And I

287
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:11,900
could do something. And I had this wine list to create.

288
00:18:12,540 --> 00:18:16,300
And if you do it. Yeah, it was, it took me about

289
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:20,140
three months that I had to look for the

290
00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:23,900
wines, talk with some distribution

291
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:29,270
people to save the wines in their cellar till our

292
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:32,950
wine cellar was finished that they could deliver.

293
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:35,510
Yeah, it's an interesting thought there

294
00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:40,510
because I just was sitting with a restaurateur here in Los

295
00:18:40,510 --> 00:18:44,270
Angeles and he was saying that his bottle sales were off

296
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:48,030
considerably, like 40%, which is more than most people are suffering

297
00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:51,670
from. And he brought in a new song to

298
00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:55,150
revamp the list. This is a Mediterranean restaurant. And he

299
00:18:55,150 --> 00:18:58,650
decided to use all Mediterrane minds and get away

300
00:18:58,650 --> 00:19:02,490
from the standards. Yeah. So which, and

301
00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:06,210
you said something earlier where, where you notice what people were

302
00:19:06,210 --> 00:19:09,490
drinking. And so is this a decision on the psalms part?

303
00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:13,050
And you mentioned you travel the world. Well, like we were just in Sicily and

304
00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:16,690
I got to take, you know, Masculaze. Yeah.

305
00:19:17,410 --> 00:19:20,850
You know, I got to drink some of these Aetna Mountain wines and

306
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:25,260
things that you don't really see on lists here in America. And

307
00:19:25,260 --> 00:19:29,060
so the argument I'm making is, do we look at

308
00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:32,740
wine lists for what people are drinking, which is what you're

309
00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:36,500
bringing to the table, having been in the field versus what you think

310
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:40,020
they should be drinking based on what's being made in the kitchen?

311
00:19:40,180 --> 00:19:43,300
Do you have to balance this idea because you want to expose

312
00:19:43,860 --> 00:19:47,580
your clients to the really interesting wines of the world that would do

313
00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:50,980
well with the foods there. Yeah. Or you just whatever they want?

314
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:55,540
I think when it depends on

315
00:19:55,540 --> 00:19:59,020
which part of the hotel the people are coming. We have

316
00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:02,820
a two star Michelin restaurant in the seventh

317
00:20:02,820 --> 00:20:05,580
floor of our hotel where the people

318
00:20:06,460 --> 00:20:10,140
are drinking. I think 80% of

319
00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:13,620
the people who are coming are drinking the wine pairing with the

320
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:17,220
menu. Oh, really? Wow. So this is really

321
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:21,060
good because I thought I do the wine pairing

322
00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:24,900
out of the wine list. So I sell all

323
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:28,300
the wines. Like I try to

324
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:31,900
don't have two wines or

325
00:20:32,140 --> 00:20:35,900
three wines from the same area in the wine pairing. And I just

326
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:39,260
do like a world trip of wines in the wine

327
00:20:39,260 --> 00:20:43,020
pairing. And I usually have

328
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:46,780
one wine or sometimes two from Germany. Because if we have

329
00:20:46,780 --> 00:20:50,420
international guests, they want to taste

330
00:20:50,420 --> 00:20:53,980
what we have. Yeah. So. And in this

331
00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:57,700
case we have, I think 80% of

332
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:01,500
the guests who decide for the wine pairing are happy to

333
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,900
be surprised. And if

334
00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:07,740
the other 20% are

335
00:21:08,380 --> 00:21:12,180
expecting. Get the wines

336
00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:16,020
they know, sometimes you find it out after the first

337
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:19,780
wine already. Then you have to try what they like and then

338
00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:23,380
they don't get the wine pairing. What is really

339
00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:27,700
like the best pairing with the food. In this

340
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:31,540
case, we would have some wines by the glass which

341
00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:35,060
are. Yeah. Good value

342
00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:38,500
for everyone. And you would find different

343
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:43,170
things. Yeah. What we can do by the glass

344
00:21:43,810 --> 00:21:47,450
and what I write with the wine list, it's

345
00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:50,850
not a. Yeah. Not just like

346
00:21:51,170 --> 00:21:54,530
my favorite wines from worldwide. It's more.

347
00:21:55,090 --> 00:21:58,810
Yeah. I think it's about 80% is

348
00:21:58,810 --> 00:21:59,570
classic.

349
00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:06,310
Yeah. And because I think if it's

350
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:09,990
Gallium Classic, it. It should be great. Otherwise it

351
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:13,790
would never get a classic example for area.

352
00:22:16,270 --> 00:22:19,950
And yeah, it's like we do.

353
00:22:21,550 --> 00:22:24,990
If we have wines from us, we have

354
00:22:25,550 --> 00:22:29,230
Rich Montebello. I would say this is classic.

355
00:22:31,390 --> 00:22:34,990
We do buy the glass at the moment. A wine

356
00:22:34,990 --> 00:22:38,670
from Sonoma Coast. It's

357
00:22:39,790 --> 00:22:41,950
Pinot Noir. Yeah. Pinot Noir from.

358
00:22:44,430 --> 00:22:46,350
It's. I forgot the name.

359
00:22:48,190 --> 00:22:50,750
Yeah, I don't. Yeah. Now I.

360
00:22:52,590 --> 00:22:56,350
It's. We can get into the weeds about some of these.

361
00:22:56,610 --> 00:22:57,970
Somebody's Let me ask you another question.

362
00:23:00,450 --> 00:23:04,090
Do you prefer, and this is for the listeners, this is for the

363
00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:07,770
listeners that may show up at a restaurant, a two star restaurant in

364
00:23:07,770 --> 00:23:11,250
Hamburg or anywhere. Do you prefer

365
00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:15,730
as a psalm that. Well, for instance, at Tour

366
00:23:15,730 --> 00:23:19,490
d' Argent, when I was there, a beautiful list, obviously wonderful Bordeaux

367
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:23,120
and Burgundy on their list, aged as well. And I,

368
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:26,640
I just told the psalm, I go look, here's the budget. It was like

369
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,200
€450 or whatever it was. And I we like

370
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,520
Bordeaux and for this case just let the

371
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,360
psalm do their work. They know most of

372
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,040
the wines in the. Listen, in your case, you know everyone on the list because

373
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:43,480
you created it. But a lot of times the psalm walks into a current list.

374
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,800
Do you prefer that over or how do

375
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,120
you handle that? I mean like. Yeah, I don't know. This is, you know, spate

376
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,760
for Gunder with this. I don't know, not a good idea. So I don't. Do

377
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,430
you know, do you just let the client understand what you're

378
00:23:57,430 --> 00:24:01,110
thinking and, but let them decide or you, or you. Do you prefer when

379
00:24:01,110 --> 00:24:04,590
the client says here's my budget, here's the districts we like.

380
00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:09,230
We're about to eat this, make some recommendations. I think

381
00:24:10,350 --> 00:24:14,190
you would ever find something. If they tell you what they

382
00:24:14,190 --> 00:24:17,790
like to drink, you can find

383
00:24:17,870 --> 00:24:21,350
in, you can. Maybe you can find an

384
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:25,180
example what fits with the menu. What would

385
00:24:25,180 --> 00:24:28,540
be mainly in the budget? The wine which would

386
00:24:28,620 --> 00:24:32,300
fit the best. Yeah. And even if it's not

387
00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:35,940
like a perfect match, they are, they will be

388
00:24:35,940 --> 00:24:39,620
happy to drink the wine. As a

389
00:24:39,620 --> 00:24:42,620
psalm. You prefer being able to. Sometimes I do.

390
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,980
Sometimes I say I, I, I would recommend

391
00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:51,900
if it's like a course where what we did.

392
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:55,340
So again I. It is a Pinot Noir from

393
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,640
Marina.

394
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,880
Yeah. 21 vintage. And it is like that

395
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,400
is a really good example. We have a main course with Lamp

396
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,560
from Limousin and we do Pinot Noir

397
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,240
with it. And sometimes the people think with

398
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,440
lamp you should serve something heavier.

399
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,160
And I had a guest, he was drinking,

400
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,600
he, he thought about drinking a Syrah from

401
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,000
Barossa with it. And then I said if you

402
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,840
dramatic difference. And then I, I told him

403
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,440
that we are serving a Pinot Noir with it and if he

404
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,160
wants to have a Syrah with it, I would

405
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,520
have a wine from Amitash. That

406
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,230
that's not that you tell them that what they want to

407
00:25:51,230 --> 00:25:54,990
drink is wrong. Maybe give them just a

408
00:25:54,990 --> 00:25:58,670
little bit something what goes a little bit more in

409
00:25:58,670 --> 00:26:01,670
the direction that they are happy.

410
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:04,630
Yeah. And even if the wines are Too young.

411
00:26:06,150 --> 00:26:09,750
You should tell how do you like the wine?

412
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:13,910
Do you like it when it's still more on the fruit driven

413
00:26:13,910 --> 00:26:17,700
side? Because this wine could age

414
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:21,140
longer. Something like this. I think you should.

415
00:26:21,380 --> 00:26:25,220
Should always help the people to have more

416
00:26:25,220 --> 00:26:28,340
fun with enjoying wine and food.

417
00:26:29,620 --> 00:26:33,300
Do you think, do you feel like

418
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:37,060
that most people come to your restaurant, are educated in wine

419
00:26:37,140 --> 00:26:40,660
or they prefer to rely on you

420
00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:44,220
or they just want to drink. The standards, let's say you carry,

421
00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:48,700
you know, the basic Bordeaux or the basic Napas

422
00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:52,540
that they just run with what they usually drink.

423
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:56,500
I think we have all of them. You do? Yeah. Where are they

424
00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:00,220
from? What's your typical client? American? We can't

425
00:27:00,540 --> 00:27:04,140
say we have any typical client. We have a lot of people

426
00:27:04,140 --> 00:27:07,260
from Hamburg because the people

427
00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:11,420
love to go out in Hamburg and this is really a

428
00:27:11,420 --> 00:27:14,520
good place. We are in the middle of the town

429
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,520
in a really nice. Yeah. Quiet

430
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,400
area and it's in the seventh floor so they have a

431
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,000
really good view. We have a lot of

432
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,600
people from Scandinavia, from Denmark.

433
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,240
Yeah. There are also sometimes people from us

434
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,920
traveling. The only thing what is not so good is that you

435
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,740
can't fly directly to Hamburg. You have to fly

436
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:44,500
to Munich or Frankfurt. Yeah. Or

437
00:27:44,740 --> 00:27:48,180
London, Amsterdam. That's.

438
00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:52,020
That's so it's not. It's a destination. It's a

439
00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:55,860
destination to get the Hamburg. Yeah. And what's it famous for? What's Hamburg

440
00:27:55,860 --> 00:27:59,140
famous for? As an industry. Do they have you know

441
00:27:59,940 --> 00:28:03,660
glass or porcelain or. Yeah, we have the

442
00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:07,140
harbor industry. It's like we

443
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:10,790
don't really do industry. It's more. We are

444
00:28:10,790 --> 00:28:13,910
famous for logistics. Oh wow.

445
00:28:15,030 --> 00:28:18,750
Yeah. And ships or. Yeah.

446
00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:21,750
Like what's the.

447
00:28:23,910 --> 00:28:27,590
Yeah, they. They are building ship something.

448
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:31,110
Oh, ship, yeah. Wow. Okay, so let's go back on the one I was. I

449
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:34,390
just wanted to. I haven't been to Hamburger. I thought maybe I'd find out what's

450
00:28:34,390 --> 00:28:38,230
going on over there. Yes. There is a lot of. For

451
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:41,790
trade and for logistic. The city,

452
00:28:41,870 --> 00:28:44,990
what we are famous for. There's a lot of.

453
00:28:46,030 --> 00:28:49,630
This is going back to your training a little bit because

454
00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:54,190
I've been reading recently I went back and found magazines

455
00:28:54,190 --> 00:28:57,870
in the wine trade from the 70s around the Judgment of

456
00:28:57,870 --> 00:29:01,670
Paris days. 75, 76, 74. And I'm reading these articles

457
00:29:01,670 --> 00:29:04,990
from Michael Broadbent and Harry Waugh, these famed critics

458
00:29:05,630 --> 00:29:09,100
and it's. They're very similar to what's written today.

459
00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:12,980
Languages, you know, how they describe wines is a little bit different. You know my

460
00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:16,460
father used to cringe at some of the descriptors I would use

461
00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:20,740
because generationally we use different things but, but

462
00:29:20,740 --> 00:29:24,460
it doesn't. It seems to me that the position of fine wine has never

463
00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:28,180
changed, never will change. But there's a whole. And it just

464
00:29:28,180 --> 00:29:31,740
seems like generationally there's a movement every time we're going to do this, we're going

465
00:29:31,740 --> 00:29:34,630
to change the language of wine. We have to dumb it down, we have to

466
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:38,390
make it more approachable for people to understand. But it never

467
00:29:38,390 --> 00:29:41,470
happens that way because in my opinion,

468
00:29:42,510 --> 00:29:45,950
everybody comes to this point where they can go to a

469
00:29:45,950 --> 00:29:49,750
Michelin star restaurant or even just a fine dining restaurant and listen

470
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:52,590
to a psalm that's properly curated a list

471
00:29:53,550 --> 00:29:57,310
and enjoy a proper, honest glass of wine.

472
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,840
Have you seen any shift in your career from

473
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,680
when you started understanding wine to today's

474
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,080
consumption that people are not as educated or

475
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,800
more educated or more interested in pairing or

476
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,480
less interested in pairing? Have you seen any shift at all

477
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,200
in the contemporary consumption of wine? Yes, I think it

478
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,870
was after the lockdown. Yeah,

479
00:30:25,950 --> 00:30:29,630
that should have been a lot. The people came back and they have

480
00:30:29,630 --> 00:30:31,310
been highly educated.

481
00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:36,510
That's true. They were drinking much more at home, weren't they?

482
00:30:38,190 --> 00:30:41,790
That was so funny to see it. And it was

483
00:30:41,950 --> 00:30:45,470
really interesting to see because I think

484
00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:49,550
the average price of a bottle of

485
00:30:49,550 --> 00:30:53,250
wine would we sold after the pandemic was

486
00:30:54,050 --> 00:30:57,250
minimum 10 to 15 to 20%

487
00:30:57,570 --> 00:31:01,330
higher than before. And the people, they

488
00:31:01,330 --> 00:31:05,130
have been talking and they have been asking questions. I think they. Yeah,

489
00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:08,690
okay. Maybe it was also because they have just been sitting at home

490
00:31:08,690 --> 00:31:11,730
with their closest friends, our family,

491
00:31:12,850 --> 00:31:16,540
and they really enjoyed going out and

492
00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:20,300
talking to other people. And I think after this

493
00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:24,940
period of time it was, it gave

494
00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:27,660
a big push to the people to.

495
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:32,380
Yeah. To study and to read about

496
00:31:32,380 --> 00:31:35,700
wine and to create a wine

497
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:39,500
cellar because they. That's really interesting you said that.

498
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:43,260
Yeah, because I think, I think contemporarily, I think the, at

499
00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:46,320
least on. In social networking and other parts of the wine

500
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,360
conversation, you would hear people think the opposite.

501
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,000
And I, and I agree with you completely. We here at the. My

502
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,600
company was the original Wine of the month club, the original direct to consumer

503
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,440
business in America. And you know, we were, our sales were up

504
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,240
30%. And when the average, when

505
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,088
the average purchase back then was like let's say €20 or 20,

506
00:32:09,152 --> 00:32:13,000
20, you know, $22 or so, they were,

507
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,840
they went to like $100 or 100, you know, and

508
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,600
I couldn't keep those in stock, you know. Yeah, same in our

509
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,960
place. I always struggle with buying wines. It's like

510
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,360
now I. I buy wine for a lot

511
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,200
of higher entry level price for the wines

512
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,880
by the glass, and then you just get 60 bottles and then they

513
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,620
are already sold out, and then you have to buy again. So. Yeah,

514
00:32:39,620 --> 00:32:42,060
right. Easy wines. Nobody wants to drink.

515
00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:46,860
Okay, that's really funny. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that because, like,

516
00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:51,340
I don't like getting into arguments, you know, on social networks, because

517
00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:54,940
it's really silly and it's just a waste of time. Yeah. But it

518
00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:58,740
doesn't anger me. But it frustrates me that these conversations

519
00:32:58,740 --> 00:33:02,380
are occurring when we know when you know, when you see it in your restaurant,

520
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:06,770
what people are actually doing. And as all the rest of it is,

521
00:33:06,770 --> 00:33:10,530
you know, in English, we call lip service. Right. It's just a waste of words

522
00:33:11,170 --> 00:33:14,770
because what the reality is, people are enjoying

523
00:33:14,930 --> 00:33:18,530
fine wine. They are enjoying the conversation with you as the head psalm

524
00:33:18,770 --> 00:33:21,810
to do that. And the other thing that's interesting to me, and I want to

525
00:33:21,810 --> 00:33:23,570
ask you what's happened on your list?

526
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:29,210
And this is also generational. Yeah. In my father's store,

527
00:33:29,210 --> 00:33:32,850
we had Boone's Farm, Strawberry Hill, we had. We had

528
00:33:32,850 --> 00:33:36,610
Lancers and Matuse. And these wines that were easy to drink in the

529
00:33:36,610 --> 00:33:40,390
70s, said White Zinfandel. And now we have these white claws

530
00:33:40,390 --> 00:33:43,630
and these flavored sodas and, and. And ready to drink

531
00:33:43,630 --> 00:33:47,190
cocktails, you know, eroding the base of wine

532
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:50,790
sales. But there are some movements, I think, that are kind of

533
00:33:50,790 --> 00:33:54,510
interesting. Yeah. Organic, biodynamic, orange.

534
00:33:55,790 --> 00:33:58,950
Do you have any. Do you even have a section on your list for any

535
00:33:58,950 --> 00:34:02,510
of those categories? No, I don't have a separate section. I just

536
00:34:02,510 --> 00:34:06,290
put them in the list. And for us, it's more that

537
00:34:06,290 --> 00:34:09,410
we don't really have too fancy wines.

538
00:34:09,890 --> 00:34:13,410
It's just like a little bit orange. Or even if

539
00:34:13,410 --> 00:34:17,250
it's orange, it's still kind of clear and clean.

540
00:34:19,010 --> 00:34:22,650
So. Yeah, right. And then, then we do like, we have a

541
00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:26,130
Pinot Grigio from. From Trento,

542
00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:29,010
from Foradori. What is pink?

543
00:34:30,220 --> 00:34:33,860
And sometimes I say to my sommelier

544
00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:37,540
team, I say, with some people, you have to tell them before

545
00:34:37,540 --> 00:34:41,380
that this wine is pink if it's. And with

546
00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:44,140
some people, it can be funny to. Don't tell that.

547
00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:48,900
Well, that's interesting. You know, Grigio's got that pink skin

548
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:52,700
anyway, you know, so. But this is extended fermentation.

549
00:34:52,940 --> 00:34:56,729
And, you know, there are a lot of people looking for a Pinot Grigio,

550
00:34:56,729 --> 00:35:00,329
which is clear or gray in

551
00:35:00,329 --> 00:35:04,009
color and which tastes not really

552
00:35:04,169 --> 00:35:07,209
intense. And if this customer is

553
00:35:07,929 --> 00:35:11,689
getting a pinot grigio, which is pink. Yeah, You.

554
00:35:11,849 --> 00:35:15,689
You should tell him maybe better before if he was

555
00:35:15,689 --> 00:35:19,529
looking for Pinot grigio with a really clear,

556
00:35:19,769 --> 00:35:23,470
straight, crisp style. But

557
00:35:23,870 --> 00:35:27,710
sometimes it can be really funny to see the reaction.

558
00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:30,750
And then they say, why is it pink?

559
00:35:32,030 --> 00:35:35,870
And then you have to start in a talk and then you can tell,

560
00:35:35,950 --> 00:35:39,790
you know, it's a. A variety, which is pink skin, so it

561
00:35:39,790 --> 00:35:43,390
should have a little bit color, and then it can be cool

562
00:35:43,630 --> 00:35:47,470
to sell such a wine. Yeah, you know, there's.

563
00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:51,130
There was a. Go ahead. Yeah. And sometimes the people, then they are

564
00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:54,570
really happy and that. It's. That

565
00:35:54,570 --> 00:35:58,250
Pinot creature can taste really intense and have

566
00:35:58,250 --> 00:36:01,970
this juicy character and even some tannin

567
00:36:01,970 --> 00:36:05,130
structure. Yeah. So here's what I found

568
00:36:05,690 --> 00:36:09,530
through tastings here. Every

569
00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:13,210
morning, every Tuesday morning for 35 years, I'd go to the tasting room, I'd stand

570
00:36:13,210 --> 00:36:17,050
there at 9 o' clock, and the salespeople would come in and bring their

571
00:36:17,050 --> 00:36:20,770
wares. And it was. It became sort of this temperature of what

572
00:36:20,770 --> 00:36:23,930
was going on, the wine trade, whatever the sales people were bringing in. And I

573
00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:27,570
was doing it every week. I had an understanding of what the

574
00:36:27,570 --> 00:36:31,250
marketplace was being presented and what the consumers were. And of course, we saw all

575
00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:35,010
the ebbs and flows. But what bothered me about not only the organic and

576
00:36:35,010 --> 00:36:38,730
biodynamic movement, the orange movement was. It was

577
00:36:38,730 --> 00:36:42,090
almost an excuse for the wine to be

578
00:36:42,730 --> 00:36:46,290
a little too rustic, a little too edgy, a little too

579
00:36:46,290 --> 00:36:49,210
rough on the edges. When you and I know,

580
00:36:50,090 --> 00:36:53,610
the Burgundians, the Bordelaise, they were. They were organic by

581
00:36:53,610 --> 00:36:57,050
nature, were they not? Before we. Before they introduced

582
00:36:57,050 --> 00:37:00,770
pesticides and insecticides. Yeah. And. And so I found

583
00:37:00,770 --> 00:37:04,490
this to be. Well, it's organic. Like, I don't. I still want to.

584
00:37:04,570 --> 00:37:08,410
I still want a pleasant experience when I open a wine where

585
00:37:08,410 --> 00:37:11,850
this organic, biodynamic or orange. Yeah. I don't want to have to

586
00:37:12,420 --> 00:37:16,020
feel like I'm drinking it for my health because of some kind of

587
00:37:16,260 --> 00:37:19,220
kombucha. Right. It still should taste

588
00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:22,740
that. You want to drink more than one sip.

589
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:27,020
Yes, exactly. That was interesting. And I

590
00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:30,580
also do. If I buy some wines which are

591
00:37:30,580 --> 00:37:34,180
orange in style, I. I have a look.

592
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:37,700
If I put them sometimes in a glass for two days,

593
00:37:38,220 --> 00:37:41,180
and if they oxidize too quick, I don't buy.

594
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:45,940
That's a really. I never thought. I used to put wines out, have them

595
00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:49,700
pour. I'd come back in a few hours to see what happened, because

596
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:53,540
sometimes the flaws don't come out until later, but two

597
00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:57,340
or three days. That's really interesting. Sometimes we do that if it's

598
00:37:57,340 --> 00:38:01,180
really wine like this. And I think

599
00:38:01,260 --> 00:38:04,540
orange should not be an excuse for faulty wines.

600
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,120
Yes. Yeah. And sometimes they sell wine more

601
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,600
expensive than single vineyard wines.

602
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,080
And it's a worse. It's not their best quality what

603
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,879
they put into the orange. So it

604
00:38:20,879 --> 00:38:24,040
should be. It can be an interesting style.

605
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,600
Do you have good quality? Yeah. Since we're on.

606
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,130
On orange wine in Georgia, the country of Georgia's, you know,

607
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,240
probably the originator or at least, you know,

608
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,880
propagates that story. And I went to a

609
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,400
tasting. I went to a raw tasting. Not sure if you're aware of rods that

610
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,160
Isabelle from the Master of Wine from London.

611
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,720
Actually she's French, but she's from London. But she has this group and they go

612
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:56,120
around all over the world and they open. They have these tasting events called

613
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,000
raw. And so I went to the Georgia section

614
00:38:59,890 --> 00:39:03,570
and there was that really old world version of their

615
00:39:03,570 --> 00:39:07,410
orange wines. I mean Amphora untouched and just really hard

616
00:39:07,410 --> 00:39:11,050
to drink. But very traditional. You know, it's not. It's. This has been going on

617
00:39:11,050 --> 00:39:14,850
for years. And then there was a. Another table that was all proper

618
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:19,170
current technology, stainless steel,

619
00:39:19,170 --> 00:39:22,610
clean version of the same types of wine. And they're two different things.

620
00:39:23,570 --> 00:39:26,370
Do you see a consumption trend

621
00:39:28,250 --> 00:39:31,770
any different? Let's say that 10 years ago, in other words, I asked this question

622
00:39:31,770 --> 00:39:35,130
about orange wine, but I'm talking about even

623
00:39:35,770 --> 00:39:39,370
old world Bordeaux versus New

624
00:39:39,370 --> 00:39:42,810
world Napa. Do you see a trend or

625
00:39:42,890 --> 00:39:46,650
how people are drinking? I think

626
00:39:47,290 --> 00:39:51,010
the trend is that people want to know where

627
00:39:51,010 --> 00:39:53,210
the wine is coming from and how it's made.

628
00:39:54,940 --> 00:39:58,660
They are asking more questions what the people do

629
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:01,660
in the vineyard because now they know

630
00:40:02,540 --> 00:40:05,340
how much some. Yeah,

631
00:40:06,060 --> 00:40:09,820
let's say farmers. Not only winemaker, it's also with the

632
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:13,180
production of food that that's really. With the

633
00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:16,820
vegetables that they spray a lot. And so the

634
00:40:16,820 --> 00:40:20,470
people are a little bit more asking

635
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:25,070
or they are happy to hear if the winemaker is

636
00:40:25,070 --> 00:40:28,630
working organic or maybe.

637
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:32,710
Yeah, certified organic. I don't know that

638
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:36,470
every. I don't think that everyone does really

639
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:40,070
understand the difference between

640
00:40:40,310 --> 00:40:43,830
organic and biodynamic. But

641
00:40:45,340 --> 00:40:49,100
I think that's something what our customers are looking

642
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:52,300
for. And they prefer more

643
00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:55,740
the origin than a label.

644
00:40:57,180 --> 00:41:00,540
I'm glad to hear that. Just with. With wine, with

645
00:41:01,179 --> 00:41:04,980
champagne, it's crazy. So

646
00:41:04,980 --> 00:41:08,700
because you have this really big group which

647
00:41:08,780 --> 00:41:12,220
is drinking the. Just the small grower champagne.

648
00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:17,940
But that's a really small group and we still have the

649
00:41:17,940 --> 00:41:21,620
people who are looking for the big brands and

650
00:41:21,620 --> 00:41:25,300
in this case they spend. They don't really care about

651
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:28,700
how much it costs. If they are looking for Krug or

652
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:32,380
Ruder Crystal or Boulanger

653
00:41:33,340 --> 00:41:36,660
Couture enfant or. Something like this grand de

654
00:41:36,660 --> 00:41:40,340
Champagne Comtesse. That's so interesting. I wonder

655
00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:44,000
why champagne? Because I love champagne and. And they're pro. We were just.

656
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,400
In fact we just went and visited Monsieur Clovis

657
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,240
Tanger in champagne a few weeks ago and I

658
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:54,800
thought they're pros

659
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,640
at. I mean the champagne district is their pros at

660
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,160
making things feel like you're part of the group.

661
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,640
Even though, you know, VUV makes 25 million bottles or some. Whatever.

662
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,290
Whatever the number is be exaggerating probably but I always

663
00:42:10,290 --> 00:42:14,090
been fascinated by the way they were able to position the style of

664
00:42:14,090 --> 00:42:17,850
wine. And you always feel like there's something special going on even

665
00:42:17,850 --> 00:42:21,130
though it's a mass marketed huge brand.

666
00:42:22,010 --> 00:42:24,890
But. And I'm interested to hear that the consumer

667
00:42:25,690 --> 00:42:29,530
is different. How they look at it is different than a regular

668
00:42:29,530 --> 00:42:33,330
consumer. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I think sommeliers

669
00:42:33,330 --> 00:42:37,010
or wine people, they are more focused on the small

670
00:42:37,010 --> 00:42:40,530
grower champagne and as well some

671
00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:43,810
sparklings from other places than France.

672
00:42:45,090 --> 00:42:48,330
What is growing in Germany is German

673
00:42:48,330 --> 00:42:51,890
sparklings. We do really good quality of

674
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:55,890
Meto traditional sect from Germany

675
00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:59,490
from growers and as well the Austrian do

676
00:42:59,650 --> 00:43:03,090
a great job. I've been tasting

677
00:43:03,170 --> 00:43:06,370
something really nice from Jacqueline Baskin

678
00:43:06,910 --> 00:43:10,710
from the Basque area. Wow. Or as well

679
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:14,150
from. From the. From the

680
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:17,910
penades in Spain. It's. It can be really great. Yeah, I

681
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:20,990
think that's interesting. You know one of the great.

682
00:43:22,910 --> 00:43:25,790
What's the word? I'm not going to say failure. That's a little too strong. But

683
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:29,150
you know, Hans Cornell, when they came to Napa in the 60s

684
00:43:30,110 --> 00:43:33,150
maybe before it was a great story of a German

685
00:43:33,540 --> 00:43:37,380
influenced sparkling wine from the California that

686
00:43:38,740 --> 00:43:42,540
I think through family there was. I can't remember the story exactly

687
00:43:42,540 --> 00:43:46,300
but the. The families kind of fell apart and the whole. The

688
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:49,780
whole brand fell apart. But it was a very popular brand and it was a

689
00:43:49,780 --> 00:43:53,500
well known story about the German immigrant who came to America to

690
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,340
make sparkling wine. Was it Tramsberg

691
00:43:57,620 --> 00:44:00,860
or. No, it was Hans Cornell. Cornell,

692
00:44:01,170 --> 00:44:04,850
yeah. So I'm glad you said this

693
00:44:04,850 --> 00:44:08,530
earlier about people asking

694
00:44:08,530 --> 00:44:12,290
the questions because in the marketing of wine

695
00:44:12,290 --> 00:44:15,890
now is convoluted. It always has been in a certain case.

696
00:44:16,210 --> 00:44:18,050
But when I reflect on my father's.

697
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:24,490
I'll show you this picture. This is my Dad's store

698
00:44:24,490 --> 00:44:28,290
in 1975. He's standing in front of his and the imports

699
00:44:28,290 --> 00:44:30,410
are in front of them and the domestics are behind him.

700
00:44:33,610 --> 00:44:37,170
It was complicated then because it was relative, but

701
00:44:37,170 --> 00:44:40,850
now the idea is telling

702
00:44:40,850 --> 00:44:44,650
the story and certainly manufacturing techniques, farming

703
00:44:44,650 --> 00:44:48,490
techniques, the history of the winemaker is part of the story.

704
00:44:49,610 --> 00:44:53,370
Because I contend that when somebody buys wine on the

705
00:44:53,370 --> 00:44:56,570
Internet, that that's not a story. I got it for 5 bucks a bottle or

706
00:44:56,570 --> 00:45:00,350
10 bucks a bottle through some. The story

707
00:45:00,350 --> 00:45:03,670
really comes down to what you're saying, which is people asking the questions

708
00:45:04,070 --> 00:45:07,710
and that your list, you can tell a story behind

709
00:45:07,710 --> 00:45:11,430
each wine on the list. Yeah, I think

710
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:15,590
that's good. That's the reason to go in

711
00:45:15,590 --> 00:45:19,030
a restaurant or to go in a good wine shop if you have those

712
00:45:19,110 --> 00:45:22,910
people. Yeah. You have to be the one who's

713
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:26,470
telling the story and to surprise the people.

714
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,480
Yeah. I just posted a. A sound bite or a

715
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,160
video bite from Steven Spurrier when he was on the show and I.

716
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,560
And the part I picked out was really interesting and I hadn't heard it for

717
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,240
a while, which was wine needs to

718
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,440
communicate. Yeah. Something.

719
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,200
And that's what I think. You might. And maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but

720
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,920
when you see a customer taste a wine and

721
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,650
they're eyebrows go up or their face changes or,

722
00:45:57,290 --> 00:45:59,970
I mean, does that light you up when that happens? Does that make you feel

723
00:45:59,970 --> 00:46:03,650
good? Sometimes I do. With some wines,

724
00:46:03,650 --> 00:46:07,370
I think they are perfect with a course and you taste it

725
00:46:07,370 --> 00:46:11,010
together and you think, oh, cool. Perfect match. And then you try to

726
00:46:11,010 --> 00:46:14,770
tell the story. But if it's not a story, if it's not

727
00:46:14,770 --> 00:46:18,490
a good story, after one week I say, okay,

728
00:46:18,570 --> 00:46:22,400
we don't buy more of this wine. I need better stories

729
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,960
to tell. Even if that's our job.

730
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,000
Right. Yeah, it's. Sometimes it can be

731
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,280
really. Yeah. Can be really

732
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,880
boring. Then if. If the story is not that much

733
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,960
interesting. Yeah. Well, but isn't it.

734
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,560
Doesn't that just go along with the idea of what.

735
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,640
I mean, wine is consumer driven. We're. Our job as a seller is to.

736
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:51,070
It's to romance. It is to give people the story. But when it's all said

737
00:46:51,070 --> 00:46:54,630
and done, it is a connection to your

738
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:58,030
soul and it is the reason people come to a restaurant like

739
00:46:58,030 --> 00:47:01,150
yours to experience it.

740
00:47:02,110 --> 00:47:05,470
That'll never. I don't think that'll ever change. Despite all the

741
00:47:05,470 --> 00:47:09,190
noise we're hearing today about changing the

742
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:12,750
game of wine. I don't see how it changes. How do you change wine?

743
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:17,520
You. You can change. You can't change

744
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,000
it. It's 12, 000 years old or 6000 years old already.

745
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,760
Right? Yeah. You just tell you. I think it's always

746
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,240
about the people behind and about the areas where

747
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:33,000
the wine is coming from. And it's a lot of emotion. And

748
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,560
the good thing is the people are in the restaurant

749
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,120
or in a bar drinking and enjoying the wine.

750
00:47:40,700 --> 00:47:44,540
They don't really think about what happens in the

751
00:47:44,540 --> 00:47:47,740
world. That's also the good thing of

752
00:47:48,140 --> 00:47:50,380
job of a sommelier. You are always

753
00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:55,340
creating special moments for people

754
00:47:56,220 --> 00:47:59,180
that they focus on the good things of the life

755
00:47:59,980 --> 00:48:03,740
to enjoy to have this hedonistic

756
00:48:04,540 --> 00:48:08,230
situations. Just what kind of aged

757
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:11,190
Bordeaux in Burgundy do you have on your list?

758
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:17,430
We have 85

759
00:48:18,310 --> 00:48:22,149
Chateau Marco still. Wow. Yeah. Because

760
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:26,310
when I created the list from zero the good thing was

761
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:29,270
the people already knew me in the.

762
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:33,970
Yeah. The distribution. I

763
00:48:33,970 --> 00:48:37,570
I I called everyone and said okay. The

764
00:48:37,570 --> 00:48:41,090
seller is empty. What do you

765
00:48:41,330 --> 00:48:45,130
have that's not good? Old vintages. And

766
00:48:45,130 --> 00:48:48,930
it was really cool. So I had a really

767
00:48:48,930 --> 00:48:52,770
good distributor from From Bavaria

768
00:48:53,010 --> 00:48:56,810
who is negotiation for a lot

769
00:48:56,810 --> 00:48:59,490
of Bordeaux. So we also have.

770
00:49:02,750 --> 00:49:06,270
We do 86. We have

771
00:49:06,590 --> 00:49:08,590
92. We have

772
00:49:10,430 --> 00:49:14,070
98 Lafitte. We

773
00:49:14,070 --> 00:49:17,710
have younger vintages of. But

774
00:49:17,710 --> 00:49:21,550
let's say younger like 2000 and 2005 of

775
00:49:21,950 --> 00:49:25,630
2005 Ponticanier. 2000 of flashbash.

776
00:49:27,620 --> 00:49:31,260
Sometimes I do 2010. But it's up how long the

777
00:49:31,260 --> 00:49:34,580
wine can age. And sometimes I also just buy

778
00:49:34,660 --> 00:49:38,300
smaller charges. Like just six bottles if it's a good

779
00:49:38,300 --> 00:49:40,900
price to put on the list.

780
00:49:41,860 --> 00:49:45,460
Old wines from Burgundy. Yeah. Not

781
00:49:45,460 --> 00:49:49,300
really. What we have from Roman Aquant

782
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:52,260
here is still some 2012 left.

783
00:49:54,570 --> 00:49:58,170
Wow. Yeah. But not that much. We

784
00:49:58,170 --> 00:50:01,450
have some wines in white. We have.

785
00:50:04,170 --> 00:50:07,930
Yeah. Le Fl. Some of the Grand Cru

786
00:50:08,409 --> 00:50:12,090
from 2014 because it

787
00:50:12,090 --> 00:50:15,770
was. I don't remember in which year they had

788
00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:19,570
a really small crop. And sometimes then they give

789
00:50:19,570 --> 00:50:22,290
you all vintages with the new release.

790
00:50:23,410 --> 00:50:26,130
If. If I have chances like this. I always

791
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:30,290
buy because the people are happy. If they.

792
00:50:30,690 --> 00:50:34,490
Because I I hate to tell the people in the restaurant this

793
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:37,810
wine can be nice in 10 years. Yeah.

794
00:50:41,250 --> 00:50:45,090
So do you. Do you appreciate it when somebody

795
00:50:45,090 --> 00:50:48,090
orders a wine like that and they would you like to taste it? Because maybe

796
00:50:48,090 --> 00:50:51,830
you haven't had a chance to taste. I do this all

797
00:50:51,830 --> 00:50:55,630
the time. If I order something I think it's interesting. Obviously some

798
00:50:55,630 --> 00:50:59,150
psalms will. They're going to smell it and taste it.

799
00:50:59,550 --> 00:51:03,350
But do you appreciate it when somebody offers you go get a glass and

800
00:51:03,350 --> 00:51:07,030
let's. Yeah. I always just take a little

801
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:10,750
sip and then I say cheers to the people and say I

802
00:51:10,750 --> 00:51:14,430
will bring it somewhere and enjoy it

803
00:51:14,430 --> 00:51:17,790
with a little bit time. Maybe I taste a little sip and

804
00:51:18,030 --> 00:51:21,090
take my time when all the customers have left.

805
00:51:21,730 --> 00:51:25,450
Because it Sometimes, yeah. Can take

806
00:51:25,450 --> 00:51:28,930
too long when you spend too much time

807
00:51:29,170 --> 00:51:32,770
just with. I don't want to show the other

808
00:51:32,770 --> 00:51:35,250
table that I'm drinking with one table.

809
00:51:36,610 --> 00:51:40,450
I just do like this. Thank you. And if

810
00:51:40,450 --> 00:51:43,250
you want to share it with me, I would bring it

811
00:51:43,970 --> 00:51:47,690
behind and I can give my colleagues as well a little bit

812
00:51:47,690 --> 00:51:51,490
of that. That's what I prefer. That's very nice. Yeah.

813
00:51:51,570 --> 00:51:54,650
I'm gonna leave you with the stock because we're already at 52 minutes. I know

814
00:51:54,650 --> 00:51:58,450
it was very fast, but it's something to do

815
00:51:58,450 --> 00:52:02,130
with your trade and what you're doing. And I'm sure you're in the same ilk,

816
00:52:02,130 --> 00:52:05,770
but I. We were in Palermo and I. There was a psalm that

817
00:52:05,770 --> 00:52:09,330
brought the list and there were two things that impressed

818
00:52:09,330 --> 00:52:11,740
me. One, the.

819
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:16,380
The way he presented the wine, the way his enthusiasm

820
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:20,100
to present us and to display and to

821
00:52:20,100 --> 00:52:23,740
decant and to check and to. And is the way his energy

822
00:52:23,740 --> 00:52:27,500
was working. What it made me feel as just a client,

823
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:30,860
just a regular diner, that this

824
00:52:30,860 --> 00:52:34,380
gentleman really appreciated the fact that we were there

825
00:52:34,460 --> 00:52:38,080
and that we were. That we asked his opinion and that he

826
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,600
wanted to show this wine, whatever wines they were, didn't matter. We had two or

827
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,440
three different wines that there was something special going

828
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,240
on on his side of the table. And I. And

829
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:52,400
I. That's sort of almost a recommendation here

830
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,240
because wine is all about the experience

831
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,160
and the stories we talked about. But the way this gentleman made you feel that

832
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,890
you. That you were in his career to present that

833
00:53:03,890 --> 00:53:07,370
wine and to make you feel like, wow, I really. This is really great.

834
00:53:07,530 --> 00:53:11,210
Yeah. Was a really important. And he was. He was Albanian and he was

835
00:53:11,210 --> 00:53:14,650
from. But it was. We were in Palermo and I. I've said the story a

836
00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:18,250
few times. Is that like how you

837
00:53:18,250 --> 00:53:22,010
feel about it? Like you want your diners

838
00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:25,810
to just feel the energy that you've brought to the table? Yeah, yeah, for

839
00:53:25,810 --> 00:53:28,570
sure. And I want to make a.

840
00:53:29,580 --> 00:53:32,780
Share that with my colleagues as well. It's like I

841
00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:35,660
always. When we do some

842
00:53:36,220 --> 00:53:39,980
trainings with the staff, I tell the people that

843
00:53:39,980 --> 00:53:42,380
it's not. We are not order taker.

844
00:53:43,660 --> 00:53:47,180
We should surprise the people that they get a

845
00:53:47,420 --> 00:53:50,620
special moment. We create really special moment.

846
00:53:51,100 --> 00:53:54,700
The people should not forget that they have a reason to come back.

847
00:53:54,860 --> 00:53:58,460
And even in this really difficult times when the people

848
00:53:58,460 --> 00:54:01,300
are really looking at their money and

849
00:54:02,500 --> 00:54:05,860
they don't go out like easily every day,

850
00:54:06,340 --> 00:54:10,020
it's really sometimes if you go in a hotel

851
00:54:10,100 --> 00:54:13,900
as we are, it's a lot of money what

852
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:17,660
they have to bring if they come and there

853
00:54:17,660 --> 00:54:20,820
are a lot of other places and you have to

854
00:54:21,220 --> 00:54:24,890
make something special what the others does don't do

855
00:54:25,610 --> 00:54:28,970
and that they remember the people who are working there.

856
00:54:30,170 --> 00:54:33,770
You should not be the superstar. You should feel them

857
00:54:34,490 --> 00:54:37,850
that they are the superhero when they are coming

858
00:54:38,170 --> 00:54:41,810
and then it is that they really feel like

859
00:54:41,810 --> 00:54:45,490
coming home and give them a

860
00:54:45,490 --> 00:54:49,050
good, good time if they are here. Yeah.

861
00:54:49,290 --> 00:54:53,010
Excellent. That's right on. And that'll never change. And that is

862
00:54:53,650 --> 00:54:57,370
probably why we do this in the first place, is to get people

863
00:54:57,370 --> 00:55:00,090
to emote like that. It's been such an honor to have you on the show

864
00:55:00,090 --> 00:55:03,730
and a pleasure and I wish you luck. And I'm not sure

865
00:55:03,730 --> 00:55:06,930
that Hamburg is in our most

866
00:55:08,690 --> 00:55:12,410
recent travels, but certainly if we ever get that way,

867
00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:15,090
we'd love to visit you. But it's really beautiful.

868
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:21,060
Maybe not that much sun as in California, but we have a

869
00:55:21,060 --> 00:55:23,780
lot of wind which blows the clouds away.

870
00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:28,580
No, it's beautiful. It looks. Sounds beautiful. So I can,

871
00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:32,420
I can send you a picture of, of our

872
00:55:32,420 --> 00:55:36,220
place and maybe one day you come to

873
00:55:36,220 --> 00:55:39,140
visit us. Yeah, would be great.

874
00:55:40,500 --> 00:55:44,180
I have more time than I did and it's certainly going to be something in

875
00:55:44,180 --> 00:55:47,750
the back of my mind as part of our wine bucket list,

876
00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:51,830
how to experience food experience bucket

877
00:55:51,830 --> 00:55:54,710
list. Thank you again for being on the show. Thank you. Bye Bye.