Women Leading Armenia’s Wine and Tourism Revolution

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For me, the beauty of Armenia is beyond Yerevan, it's in the regions. And that's

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sort of the authenticity of our culture is

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in the regions. And I've always encouraged anybody coming to

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Armenia to definitely go beyond Yerevan and see for themselves what Armenia is

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truly about. Sit back and grab a glass.

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It's Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today, beautiful

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Southern California, about to have a conversation with Cecien.

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See, butchered it already. It's like so bad.

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Hey, listen, have a, have a listen to the show. Since we're talking, we're talking

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a little bit about Iran and growing up. We're going to talk about different parts

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of the world. There's a great show out with Zaya Unan, who

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is this amazing engineer in America who

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came from Iran at 13 years old with no money,

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actually $25, and didn't tell his parents till the night before. And

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it's a crazy story of success in America and

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redefining yourself by yourself. So have a listen to that.

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But listen, not while we're here. We're here to talk to Ms.

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Bogosian. Sounds very official.

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Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for having me. She is

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a retired tourism director. Was that the government? Is that NGO

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or was that the government? And he called me retired.

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Making me feel really old right now. But yeah, well, I, yeah, let's

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say. What should we, what should we say then?

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Job. What are you. You're not retired. But I mean, you're, you're too young to

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be retired. But that is true. I mean, I'm. I like to sort of joke

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around and say I'm semi retired. But no, I was in charge of tourism

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for the Republic of Armenia. It was a government job.

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And yeah, now I'm a consultant in, in marketing. In

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general marketing things. Listen, let's dive into that real fast because I was

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in Armenia of, I think last October. I was

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there shooting some footage with five Armenian

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winemakers trying to produce sort of a Anthony Bourdain

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style show. And you know, you get a lot of different perspectives, particularly

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when you leave yet, and you end up in different parts of Armenia that

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are rather rustic and, you know, less developed, let's call

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it. And so what is the government's role now

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when it comes to Armenian tourism? Are they

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actively involved? Is it sort of involved? What's. What, what

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happens? Well, just like any other

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ministry, of course, tourism is under the Ministry of Economy.

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It's called the Tourism Committee. It's under the Ministry, but there's no

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separate ministry for tourism in Armenia.

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And Yeah, I mean, they're in charge of everything from setting the strategy

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for the tourism industry for the country, to writing

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the policy of, you know, what's allowed, what should be allowed, the law

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around about tourism, to promoting the

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country globally for. So people know where Armenia is on

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the map so they don't confuse it with Romania and Albania

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and. Yeah. So that people know about it and want to come to Armenia.

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Then of course, there's a lot, a bunch of other things that happens. You know,

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creating relationships with airlines and you know,

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working on having more direct flights. I mean, it's not just the

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tourism committee's role, but it's sort of part of what comes

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along with the job as well. Seems, you know, that's a tall

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order. And you know, bureaucracies are slow. Government's always

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slow. This little town I live in right here, slow. Things take a

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long time to get traction. Has there been a lot of movement in.

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Since you. You were there and then left there. Has there been a lot of

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movement in. In getting the. The destination of

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Armenia out to the world? I mean, I'd like to think

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so. We've since COVID I mean, Covid was a

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hit definitely for everybody globally when it came to tourism.

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But in Armenia specifically, we managed to bounce back pretty

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quickly. By 2023, we had record breaking numbers

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that we have never seen in Armenia, and we're seeing

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sort of similar results for 2025, so

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doing pretty well this year as well. And so it's like a, it's a slow

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climb. Definitely a lot of change that have happened in

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Armenia since COVID over the last five years.

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And I think we're slowly seeing the results of that.

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But of course there's still a lot of work to be done. Everything from

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infrastructure. That continues to be a challenge in the country. But that's

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something that of course the government's working very hard on. There's a lot of

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projects in the country that hopefully is taking us in the right direction. You

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know, that's interesting because, you know, downtown Yerevan, I was there in 2007

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and my, my mother in law actually owned the Ani Hotel at some point.

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Oh. And so we had to get there before she sold it.

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And so. Well, actually she was one of the probably

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few of that time, the immediate post Soviet era that that

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went in with an investment and came out with an investment.

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I'm not dissing anything. It's just that's the way it was politically

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and financially. There but we were there, and it was a world of difference in

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Yerevan. I mean, the food in Yerevan at that time was

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kebab and tomatoes and cucumbers. And now there's.

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It's very safe. It's. There's a world of

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cuisines there. It's. The nightlife is great.

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I mean, that was rather quick in order to pull that off,

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because I enjoy going there now. Yeah. I mean, there's

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been a lot of change that's happened over the last decade, I would say, or

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maybe even earlier. But, like, you're really seeing the transition happen

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over the last decade, especially with the Syrian Armenians and

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Lebanese Armenians coming to Armenia. You're seeing sort of a

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richer culinary experience in Armenia.

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You're definitely seeing a more

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creative side as well. You're seeing beautiful restaurants, you're seeing

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cool cafes. And so that, of course,

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also has impact on nightlife as well.

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And I mean, Armenia continues to now be sort of

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in multiple articles globally, everything from

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Forbes to Conde Nast to National

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Geographic, talking about not just Armenia as a tourism destination,

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but one of the safest countries in the world, being a

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place for wine tourism, for great cuisine, for

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hiking destination, for night life

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even. And so I think we're slowly seeing a

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shift in what people think of Armenia

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and what it used to be back in the day.

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As a marketing person, what would you be telling them?

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They should be focusing on the reasons to come to Armenia. I read

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an article not too long ago, Shoot, forgot

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the periodical. But it was really well

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written. But it seemed to touch on every

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single point that the Armenian. You know, as Armenians, we try

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to tell people the first Christian nation, the first winery they've ever found, and all

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the other things that go with those comments. And I thought, wow, this is a

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really densely populated article about how great Armenia is.

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But what would you. What. What did you recommend and what is the government

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focus? What do they go after? They go after Europeans, they go after the Chinese,

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they go after the Japanese. What and what are they telling them? The reasons to

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come here are there. I mean, when we were.

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When I was working at the tourism committee, we

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did a sort of a complete overhaul of the branding of the

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country. And we looked at sort of what are the key pillars as

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to why people come to the country. And you're right, we do touch on

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multiple different things. I mean, Armenia used to be just the first Christian nation in

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the world come to Armenia because of that. And when

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we started really looking at why people should come,

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it's not one specific reason. Right. It's a combination of

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things. It's everything from rich cultural

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heritage to amazing

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food to beautiful landscapes,

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all at an affordable price. And it's a sort of a surprise

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element to it as well. People don't really have much expectations of

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Armenia. In fact, most of them don't even know where it is on a map.

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And that alone, I think works to our benefit.

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And when we were doing the rebranding, we sort of went with the

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hidden track as the slogan for the country.

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And we had a lot of feedback from people, especially Armenians,

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that looked at it as like a negative. And for me it wasn't

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because when you're looking at a hidden track, a hidden gem, it's not, it's not

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a negative, it's sort of being the underdog and being able to

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over deliver when people come to see it. And that's usually the

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sentiment that we get. A lot of people when they come to Armenia, they're surprised,

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they're very excited to see

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everything that's happening in this country. They have a really good time and

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a lot of them refer to it as feeling like it's home, even though they

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may not be Armenian, because there's this element of safety and

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family that the Armenian culture is very much rooted in.

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It's a really good point. We are that way. You know,

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I'm going to Paris, Texas on Saturday to go see my

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seventh grandchild and you know, it's just something we would do

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and we're going to be. My wife's been there for a month already just to

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take care of the new baby and, and you're right, there's a huge

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root, deep rooted family value in the Armenian culture that I think

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is really important. And it's interesting that tourists

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feel that too, that just it's eluded in the

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environment when you're there. The camaraderie, I don't know.

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Yeah. The hospitality, it's not something that you can really fake. I think the

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authenticity of the people comes through when people come and

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experience Armenia for themselves. You know, it's interesting with the Gen

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Zs too. And we're going to talk about wine, we're going to talk about a

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lot of things here. But the millennials for

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sure were experiential related. I had

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three millennial daughters and all their millennial son in laws

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and they are, you know, they were the generation that would

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rather go spend $100 on a sushi dinner which now wouldn't get you very

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far, but back then it did. And then save for that,

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you know, hot Rod or for the Mustang or whatever you're, you're, you know that

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my generation would have been anticipating owning. And so that's,

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and then Gen Z seems to be the same way. Are you seeing,

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did you guys go after generations? Are you

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trying to expose the idea of what this experience is going to be

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like? Yeah, I mean

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when you're really comparing to what it used to be

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a couple of decades ago really Armenia didn't have much of a tourism

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industry. It was a lot of Armenians that lived abroad that would return to

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Armenia or come to Armenia for the first time. I

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mean right now when we're looking there's sort of two

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separate demographics. There's the diaspora and Armenians

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and there's a non Armenians and of course there's like a dividing

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in age groups as well. Surprisingly, about

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60 to 70% of diaspora Armenians have never been to Armenia,

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which in itself could be shocking for many people to

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hear. So that's very much an untapped market.

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It could be anywhere from people that left

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in the 90s. It was sort of the cold dark years during, you know, right

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after the Soviet Union collapse. And they sort of remember

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that and then they've told those stories to their children and now their children don't

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want to come to Armenia because that's what they imagine it to be still. But

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of course that is not what it is today. And so there is

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definitely a gap of us of

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Armenia wanting to attract the diaspora and Armenians to come

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to Armenia. Because what we see is that when they come once they fall in

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love and they keep coming back. And that's sort of like the perfect customer or

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the perfect tourist because they'll keep coming to Armenia, they'll keep spending money in

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Armenia and you don't have to constantly teach them

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about Armenia, why they should come to Armenia and where it is on a map.

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And of course there's sort of the, that was sort of the low hanging fruit.

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And then you have sort of the more difficult people to convince to come

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to Armenia which could be people

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like in Europe we see more people coming to

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Armenia from Germany, from France. We've been also

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focusing on bringing people from Italy because we

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had, there's direct flights now with Wizz Air to three, three or four major

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cities in Italy. And so

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there's sort of the European market over there. But there's also the UAE which

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is very close to Armenia. There are direct flights. So you see a lot of

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tourists coming from the UAE to Armenia, especially over the holiday season.

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Right now it's, there's a lot of tourists from, from

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Dubai and UAE in Armenia that are here to celebrate Christmas.

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A lot of them want to come in the winter to experience snow, to go

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snowboarding, to go skiing in Armenia, which is also really nice because it breaks off

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the seasonality that we usually see when it comes to the tour tourism industry in

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Armenia. And then when you're looking at age, I mean,

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it's quite a mix of who comes to Armenia.

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You have families with children that come.

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There is people in their 20s, 30s, and of course sort of the

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elderly and so. And most people that we

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see that are a little bit older might be

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German hikers. Funny enough, we see a lot of retirees from

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Germany coming to Armenia to hike or it could be the

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diaspora also coming to Armenia to for

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vacation, especially from countries like the US

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and France and Russia, of course. So the bumper

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sticker ski ride is probably not a reality yet, right?

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Not yet, I guess. Actually I was, we were,

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we flew Qatar Air this time

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and stopped it Doha.

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And I thought I'm just going to stay here. This is the nicest business lounge

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I've ever been in. It was huge. I thought I could, I could fly

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to, I could fly to Doha. Just stay there for a couple of days and

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come home after. They stay in the business lounge. It's really great. And so that's

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the, the how to get to Armenia has changed considerably even

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since 2007. And the number of flights and the opportunities to

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get back and forth. You know, it's an interesting issue.

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It was always talked about when, when freedom came, which is

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1991, that it would take

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two generations for the sort of that post Soviet corruption.

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You know, let's just face it, that's, you know, part of the

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mentality of a Soviet bloc country. All of

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them had it. Is that, is that diluted now A little bit

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more where, you know, legitimate investments, legitimate businesses,

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I don't mean that they weren't legitimate before, but less

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intruded on is that it's been

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what, a couple generations, right. That we've starting to see a capitalistic

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mentality coming out of school. Some of the masters of business school there, you've got

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universities there, you have Tumo there where

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kids are learning tech. Is that evolved now?

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A little bit. There's definitely, you see a change in the younger generation

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in Armenia. There's definitely an excitement

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you, you see potential in these kids that

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definitely are hungry in terms of

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growth, in terms of learning, in terms of contributing to Armenia.

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And that's nice to see. I mean that's something that I appreciate and

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admire. And like you mentioned, there's a lot of cool programs and

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organizations that are in Armenia

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supporting the youth. And that of course

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makes a difference in their mentality as well.

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A lot of industries were interrupted by the Soviet

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obviously all of them were. One of them was wine

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being relegated to make brandy. In fact,

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one of my son in laws is excited because

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Thursday afternoon at 2 o' clock there's an auction here in Los

265
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Angeles. It's online and it's for a defunct

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Armenian brandy distributor that has all these crazy

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decorative bottles for sale. But you know,

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brandy was a huge part of the Armenian culture because of the

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Soviets. And you know, I guess one of the regular stories

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is that Winston Churchill loved Noyak and all that. But regardless,

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the industry itself was sort of put on hold and

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I'm guessing a lot of industries were sort of put on hold at that point

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and now emerging. And one of the things about the wine industry

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that is fascinates me is it's a, it's a very slow industry. It's

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only once a year that you get to try to do something. But it has

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done amazing transformation from those days.

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From 2007 would have been already

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16 years since freedom. And it was really, the

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wines were hardly palatable even then. And now they're

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literally creating world class wines. How is

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that for Eno tourism? How is the, how is the Armenian government looking at

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innotourism wine wine tourism? I mean definitely

283
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the sort of the rebirth and the revival of the wine industry in Armenia

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has done wonders for the economy in general, but

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also for tourism as well. I mean we're

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seeing the results of it already. Last year in 2024,

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Armenia hosted the UN

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Global, UN Tourism Global Wine Conference.

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And that was great for the very first time. And when we're comparing it

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to years before, France

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and Germany and sorry, Italy and Spain were the

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countries that were hosting that event. And so

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for Armenia to also be on the same level in terms of

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being one of the countries to be considered to host such an event

295
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was definitely a very, very big deal for us.

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And we're seeing the results of that as well.

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And it's not just that as an example in

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2026, so next year Armenia is now hosting the

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most, one of the most prestigious, prestigious wine tasting

300
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competitions, the Concou Mondial de Busels. I'm sure

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you know about that too. So that's going to happen in Armenia in

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2026, I think the first half of the year, if I'm

303
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not mistaken. And that in itself is again a very

304
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big deal because it brings together renowned

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experts and producers from all over the globe, really. And

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they'll come all come to Armenia for this competition. And so slowly

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we're seeing Armenia having something to say in this industry.

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I mean, becoming a little bit of top of mind. I know

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Zara was instrument instrumental in getting the concourmontial

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00:19:23,390 --> 00:19:26,950
here and she asked me the judge as well. I'm

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00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:30,390
excited to do that, but I'm actually more interested

312
00:19:31,030 --> 00:19:34,310
in a media play and, and there's,

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00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:38,830
there's a very, very famous enologist. Well,

314
00:19:38,830 --> 00:19:42,390
let's go back to Karas and Juliana. They, you know, she used Michel

315
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:46,030
Roland who's a very famous French enologist and his counterpart in

316
00:19:46,030 --> 00:19:48,940
America is Paul Hobbs and

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00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:54,140
he has a wine out of Armenia with the Alubian

318
00:19:54,140 --> 00:19:57,940
brothers. And so I'm trying to find a way to get him to be there

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00:19:57,940 --> 00:20:01,260
during the Concord Mobial so that we could produce some really cool

320
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PR footage showing this popularity

321
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or the famed

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Columbo family patriarchy

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00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:16,910
or godfather as you might be in the world of the

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mafia. Michael Franzese, who also makes wine in

325
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:23,990
Armenia and he's a huge following

326
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:27,270
socially as a reformed mob boss.

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And I'm working on getting him to come to the Concord Monial

328
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and also shoot some kind of episode, something down the

329
00:20:35,390 --> 00:20:39,030
lines of a Bourdain style thing. I think one of the things

330
00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:42,190
Armenians do is shoot themselves in the foot foot with the same story over and

331
00:20:42,190 --> 00:20:45,750
over again about we're the first Christian nation, we're the first oldest winery ever

332
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:49,430
found. We. There's so much, there's, there's so

333
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:53,110
many stories to tell of the people like these two

334
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:55,670
guys for instance, that would have

335
00:20:57,430 --> 00:21:01,070
more global interest because people want to hear

336
00:21:01,070 --> 00:21:04,270
about stories about people, you know, they want to hear what you did. And I

337
00:21:04,270 --> 00:21:07,750
just wrapped up editing my show with Vahe Kashkarian

338
00:21:08,410 --> 00:21:12,250
and it's a crazy good conversation about his plight

339
00:21:13,450 --> 00:21:16,970
to get to where he's at today in Armenia and one of the biggest brands

340
00:21:17,530 --> 00:21:21,370
in the world for Armenian wines. Anyway, so

341
00:21:21,370 --> 00:21:24,249
how did the tourism, tourism conference go?

342
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:28,970
Was it well received, Positive comments? We didn't know this

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place existed, that kind of thing. I mean, yes, so I

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00:21:32,730 --> 00:21:35,570
mean it was towards the end of last year where I had already resigned, but

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from what I read in general about what was happening

346
00:21:39,370 --> 00:21:42,650
at the conference and sort of comments that we received after the fact and

347
00:21:43,130 --> 00:21:46,170
what we saw in the media in general, it was definitely very well received.

348
00:21:47,130 --> 00:21:50,930
But again, it was sort of a Stepping stone for us as a first

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00:21:50,930 --> 00:21:54,570
step in a special wine tourism conference in Armenia

350
00:21:55,690 --> 00:21:58,090
that put us as

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a sort of competitor to our neighboring

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00:22:03,010 --> 00:22:06,730
countries as well. And so it's important now to build

353
00:22:06,730 --> 00:22:10,530
off of this, not lose momentum. And we're seeing

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a lot of really cool articles being written about Armenia. A lot

355
00:22:14,250 --> 00:22:17,810
of journalists coming to Armenia, experiencing Armenia and

356
00:22:18,130 --> 00:22:21,810
always, always with Armenian wine. The

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00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:25,210
Armenian project specifically is doing a lot of great work. They work with a lot

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of journalists globally and they bring them to

359
00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:32,690
Armenia and usually wine and wine tourism is a hot

360
00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:36,350
topic for them. So they definitely us cover that with our journalists

361
00:22:36,350 --> 00:22:40,150
as well. And so there's, there's again we have a lot of thing, a

362
00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:43,710
lot to say in this, in this industry. And like you mentioned, I think a

363
00:22:43,710 --> 00:22:47,470
lot of the stories that are currently being told are being told around people,

364
00:22:47,630 --> 00:22:51,390
the people that have made a difference, that have made impact,

365
00:22:51,550 --> 00:22:54,750
that have really contributed and are building their lives around

366
00:22:56,030 --> 00:22:59,630
wine and wine production in Armenia. We, and

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we have a lot of women in the industry, a lot of young women in

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the industry that have something to say which is honestly

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00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:10,410
super cool to see. We have sort of the wine

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00:23:10,410 --> 00:23:14,090
street in Yerevan, Sarian Street. We have in

371
00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:17,850
Vino, which is one of the, I think the oldest wine bar

372
00:23:17,850 --> 00:23:21,610
on that street. Again, one of the co owners, Mariam,

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00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:24,810
a young woman who again her and her family

374
00:23:25,450 --> 00:23:29,130
also produce wine in Armenia. And you see a lot of

375
00:23:29,290 --> 00:23:33,130
again these young ladies making a super big contribution

376
00:23:33,130 --> 00:23:36,950
to the industry and of course Vahe's daughter Amy as well.

377
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:40,190
I mean there's a lot of women in Armenia making a lot of cool contributions

378
00:23:40,190 --> 00:23:42,910
and it's really fun to see that.

379
00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:48,310
I want to talk about that in a minute actually before we

380
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:52,150
get there with the UNO tourism and the Tufankian

381
00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:55,790
hotel chain. My wife is a Tufankian related

382
00:23:55,790 --> 00:23:58,350
to James and he suspended

383
00:24:00,910 --> 00:24:04,710
manufacturing construction of his winery which was going to be a wine based

384
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:07,730
conference, you know, experience down in OT

385
00:24:08,610 --> 00:24:12,450
because of the war. And this is not a political show so

386
00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:15,970
we don't need to have that discussion. But would an agreement,

387
00:24:17,730 --> 00:24:21,130
regardless of the terms of it, but would an agreement that was

388
00:24:21,130 --> 00:24:24,770
solid help that

389
00:24:25,090 --> 00:24:27,970
purpose? Because he stopped construction in that specific case

390
00:24:28,770 --> 00:24:32,580
strictly because he wasn't sure, you know, it still be there. But would an

391
00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:35,580
agreement that's solid help

392
00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:40,340
stimulate tourism, particularly the wine trail, which obviously

393
00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:43,580
extends down to Adeni and very close to the border. Yeah,

394
00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:49,420
I actually have had many conversations with James about this and

395
00:24:50,940 --> 00:24:54,780
for us again, when we always

396
00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:58,200
speak about Armenia, I think the one thing that we Continue to. To

397
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,240
always sort of hammer home is Armenia as a safe country and continues to

398
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,000
be safe. That's why we continue to be on sort of

399
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,720
the top 10 list globally in the world. And for us,

400
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,400
that's always important to communicate when talking to anybody,

401
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,480
really, including tourists, even the diaspora, because

402
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,240
we saw a lot of even diasporans canceling tickets,

403
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:25,790
their flights to Armenia a few years ago, which honestly was a little

404
00:25:25,790 --> 00:25:28,310
disheartening to see. Yeah. But, yes,

405
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:31,910
moving ahead from that, I think

406
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:36,790
Armenia being positioned as a safe country

407
00:25:38,150 --> 00:25:41,990
works for us, works for our benefit, will

408
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:45,750
obviously entice tourists to come to Armenia, experience Armenia,

409
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:49,430
go to the regions. And that's something that's, again, for me, the

410
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:52,950
beauty of Armenia is beyond Yerevan, it's in the regions. And that's

411
00:25:53,030 --> 00:25:56,870
sort of the authenticity of our culture

412
00:25:56,950 --> 00:26:00,670
is in. In the regions. And I've always

413
00:26:00,670 --> 00:26:04,510
encouraged anybody coming to Armenia to definitely go beyond Yerevan and see

414
00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:08,310
for themselves what Armenia is truly about. Good.

415
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:11,670
I'm glad to hear that. I think it's. You're right.

416
00:26:11,910 --> 00:26:15,510
Look, we were there when the Iran Israeli war started, and

417
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:19,550
that wasn't really a problem for me because I got to reroute myself through Paris

418
00:26:19,550 --> 00:26:22,690
and I. I could live in Paris. So that's. That's okay with me.

419
00:26:23,170 --> 00:26:26,890
We were. We weren't originally not doing that. But let's tackle

420
00:26:26,890 --> 00:26:29,330
the. The women in wine and the women in business

421
00:26:30,450 --> 00:26:34,250
idea here. I've had Amy on the show. I've had

422
00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:38,090
dinner with her in Paris. Vahe is a good friend. Victoria and I go

423
00:26:38,090 --> 00:26:41,090
way back. I bought a lot of wine from Victoria when she was in la.

424
00:26:41,730 --> 00:26:45,570
Her sister Miriam and I have met many

425
00:26:45,570 --> 00:26:49,380
times. I've been to the shop many times. And I want to

426
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:53,340
flip it over to, you know, patriarchal society, which

427
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:56,340
Armenia is, so is France.

428
00:26:57,140 --> 00:27:00,980
And there's a very common thread among the

429
00:27:00,980 --> 00:27:04,660
women that called on me at one of the Month club that were French

430
00:27:04,820 --> 00:27:08,620
that moved here. Effectively, it seemed to

431
00:27:08,620 --> 00:27:12,380
escape the patriarchal society and spread their wings to

432
00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:15,940
what they thought their lives could be. Is.

433
00:27:16,740 --> 00:27:20,540
Is that part of the motivation? Is that part of the strength of

434
00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:23,860
an Armenian woman who gets in the business, or is it just sheer

435
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:27,740
DNA that makes them. I mean, you're right. The. The

436
00:27:27,740 --> 00:27:31,380
Armenian wine trade has many, many, many women in it, and the

437
00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:32,340
very strong women.

438
00:27:35,060 --> 00:27:38,580
I think in general, the strength of Armenia as a community

439
00:27:38,820 --> 00:27:41,790
is it's women. I'll start from there.

440
00:27:44,190 --> 00:27:47,870
I might be a little biased. I don't know. My mother definitely would agree with

441
00:27:47,870 --> 00:27:51,310
that. I think many people would agree with that.

442
00:27:52,270 --> 00:27:55,070
And so I think it's, I think any

443
00:27:55,870 --> 00:27:59,550
industry, any, any trade that we've seen succeed in Armenia

444
00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:03,390
has definitely have a woman's touch, regardless of what it is. And

445
00:28:03,390 --> 00:28:07,170
so I'm not shocked by that. I think we're very

446
00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:10,890
hardworking, I think we're very ambitious, I think we're very goal

447
00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:14,690
oriented and I think we have a lot

448
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:18,450
to contribute to society. And you see that through

449
00:28:18,450 --> 00:28:21,330
and through in Armenia with

450
00:28:22,370 --> 00:28:24,370
graduation rates from universities

451
00:28:26,130 --> 00:28:29,890
and sort of doing cool projects in general, regardless of whether

452
00:28:29,890 --> 00:28:32,680
it's tech, tourism, it,

453
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:37,880
whatever it might be. And so I think we

454
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,680
have to continue to create opportunities in Armenia for women, for young

455
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,360
women to have the confidence to go after what they

456
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,800
want, to have the confidence to

457
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,760
start cool, exciting, scary projects

458
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,600
and follow through. And I think that's

459
00:28:58,060 --> 00:29:01,820
our duty in general, regardless of whether you're a man or woman in Armenia.

460
00:29:01,820 --> 00:29:04,780
I think we need to start thinking about

461
00:29:05,740 --> 00:29:09,540
teaching the next generation and figuring out how we can give them the confidence

462
00:29:09,540 --> 00:29:12,860
to go after their dreams, whatever it may be. I think

463
00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:17,220
certainly the generations we talked about a little

464
00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:20,700
briefly about second, third generations after freedom,

465
00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:24,300
you know, start to open people's eyes that that's even possible,

466
00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:27,660
that there's actually, you know, the opportunities do exist

467
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:29,980
when they didn't, you know, in the past.

468
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:34,940
But it's kind of interesting for me because my father's from Cairo,

469
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:39,500
spoke five languages, blah, blah, and he came to America, you know,

470
00:29:39,980 --> 00:29:42,700
fled Egypt. And

471
00:29:43,899 --> 00:29:47,060
it taught me to be an entrepreneur, to be a sole

472
00:29:47,060 --> 00:29:50,820
proprietor, to run my own business, which is

473
00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:54,660
much the wine industry is that, you know, there aren't very few, particularly

474
00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:58,350
in America. In Armenia there's gonna be very few corporate owned wineries that there

475
00:29:58,350 --> 00:30:02,190
are like here in the U.S. but I always, I

476
00:30:02,190 --> 00:30:05,830
also thought growing up maybe I missed

477
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:09,590
something by not being part of corporate America or corporate Armenia.

478
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:13,150
Being part of the big organization and being just the cog in the wheel instead

479
00:30:13,150 --> 00:30:16,110
of, instead of, you know, at the helm trying to make, take all the risk.

480
00:30:16,110 --> 00:30:18,310
I think Armenians have this amazing

481
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:22,870
threshold of risk. Like, you know, what,

482
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,640
what are they going to do to me? Right? We've already seen the worst,

483
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,400
right? Yeah, that's true. And so, and I think women have

484
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,160
that generally. And I had a young girl in

485
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,880
here who now is at enology school in Cornell

486
00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:42,720
and she, I sent her off to Bordeaux for

487
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,240
a stagier in, in a winery

488
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,970
there and, and I see that in her too. She's young, but

489
00:30:50,970 --> 00:30:53,770
she's got this determination that

490
00:30:54,810 --> 00:30:57,050
she's going to prevail and in America,

491
00:30:58,170 --> 00:31:01,930
25% of the graduating enologists,

492
00:31:02,410 --> 00:31:06,170
potential winemakers are women. So it's not a huge percentage. It should be

493
00:31:06,170 --> 00:31:09,490
50 at least. Right. But even less as

494
00:31:09,490 --> 00:31:13,210
executives. So like it's like 7% of the women

495
00:31:13,690 --> 00:31:17,460
in the executives are women. And that's the part of the

496
00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:20,460
business that needs to change a little bit.

497
00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:24,460
I wonder what that percentage is in Armenia. Would you have any idea what?

498
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:30,060
I do not know, unfortunately. I mean,

499
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:33,300
Miriam is in charge of the story. Right. And Victoria's in charge of

500
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:36,300
armas. I mean,

501
00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:41,580
I think it really depends on the leaders

502
00:31:41,580 --> 00:31:45,060
and the leaders mentality of what that looks like. I mean, I can tell you

503
00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:46,780
when I was at the Ministry of Economy

504
00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:52,770
and I got brought on to join the

505
00:31:52,770 --> 00:31:56,530
team, the Minister of Economy at the time

506
00:31:56,690 --> 00:32:00,370
had a very strong belief that he wanted his team to be

507
00:32:00,370 --> 00:32:03,690
50, 50. He wanted his deputy

508
00:32:03,690 --> 00:32:06,530
ministers to be half women, half men.

509
00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:10,850
And so he actively interviewed

510
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:13,490
for those roles to make sure that

511
00:32:14,550 --> 00:32:18,230
he got that 50, 50. And you don't

512
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:21,830
see that everywhere. I think it really does come from

513
00:32:21,910 --> 00:32:25,030
the top. I think it comes from the leader's mentality.

514
00:32:26,550 --> 00:32:29,590
And so it's important to

515
00:32:31,270 --> 00:32:35,110
hopefully have leaders at the helm who understand the importance of

516
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:38,950
women in decision making roles as leaders.

517
00:32:39,030 --> 00:32:41,700
And so I was lucky enough

518
00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:46,060
to work for somebody who understood that and

519
00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:48,900
respected that. But of course,

520
00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:54,580
not everybody thinks the same way. I had

521
00:32:56,740 --> 00:32:57,620
maybe 10

522
00:33:00,340 --> 00:33:03,060
leaders of the wine of the month club my 35 years doing this.

523
00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:08,580
All of them were women except one. And he's the only person I had to

524
00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:08,900
fire.

525
00:33:13,620 --> 00:33:17,460
And my wife just told me recently that we've been married 39

526
00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:21,220
years last week, actually. And she just told me, you know, the reason

527
00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:24,780
I came to work with you, which is about 25 years ago, was I just

528
00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:27,380
wanted to keep an eye on you because, you know, you had so many women

529
00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:30,500
going through there that I want to. I go, seriously?

530
00:33:32,020 --> 00:33:35,780
That's the reason. Yeah. So tell me about what you're

531
00:33:35,780 --> 00:33:39,360
doing today then with the consulting side of marketing. Just wrapped up

532
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,400
a show that we. That my wife and I watched a very cute romantic

533
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,080
comedy based in Armenia. And you watched it. That's good. I'm glad to hear it.

534
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,280
I did, yeah, we saw it. Yeah, we saw it a couple nights ago. Oh,

535
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,400
we saw it when I was in Texas last, which was two weeks ago. Oh,

536
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,200
awesome. So tell me about that story. So that was one of the last projects

537
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,000
that I just did. We shot the first

538
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,600
all American Christmas romantic comedy in English

539
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,440
in Armenia last Christmas over December and January.

540
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,400
And it was written, directed and

541
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,120
produced by Angela Asatrian. She's a filmmaker

542
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,839
out of LA actually, and she's done a lot of documentaries

543
00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:25,160
in the past and she wanted sort of a light

544
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,800
hearted movie that she can film in Armenia to also

545
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,040
open the door for people to see the beauty of

546
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,480
Armenia, for people to connect to Armenia. And this wasn't a film for

547
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,939
Armenians, it was actually a film for the world to really see

548
00:34:39,659 --> 00:34:43,019
what Armenia is as a country, what it represents

549
00:34:43,019 --> 00:34:46,779
culturally, musically. And so

550
00:34:47,819 --> 00:34:50,859
this was sort of a, it became a passion project for me. I was an

551
00:34:50,859 --> 00:34:54,539
associate producer on the project. It was a very fun

552
00:34:55,259 --> 00:34:58,619
movie to shoot. It's called A Winter's Song

553
00:34:59,259 --> 00:35:03,019
and it's now on Amazon prime via Wonder Project in the

554
00:35:03,019 --> 00:35:06,310
US and so you can watch it online in the us

555
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:10,310
it's in theaters in Armenia right now. And yeah, we have some

556
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:14,070
small screenings across Europe and North America as well.

557
00:35:14,070 --> 00:35:17,670
But yeah, I mean it's as you said, it's sort of a

558
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:21,350
feel good Christmas movie. It follows

559
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:25,270
a singer songwriter from La Diaspora, Armenian that comes to Armenia for

560
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:28,870
the first time to sort of connect to her roots and find inspiration for her

561
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:32,500
music. And through the journey she

562
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:36,180
sort of finds herself in the entire process. So

563
00:35:36,580 --> 00:35:40,100
for us it was very important to show the culture,

564
00:35:40,180 --> 00:35:43,660
show the beauty, show the amazing food and

565
00:35:43,660 --> 00:35:47,420
wine and sort of bring all of that together for

566
00:35:47,420 --> 00:35:51,260
the viewers to experience. And you had Yvette Amirian,

567
00:35:51,260 --> 00:35:53,940
the famed editor here in California.

568
00:35:55,470 --> 00:35:58,110
I don't know if there's an Armenian word for Hallmark Channel.

569
00:35:59,630 --> 00:36:02,950
I don't think there is. I don't think that's something that's like easily understood here.

570
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:06,670
But yeah, I mean a lot of people compare it to a Hallmark

571
00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:10,030
movie but with sort of so much heart and less of the

572
00:36:10,190 --> 00:36:13,390
cliche. Not that there's anything wrong with

573
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:17,350
cliche. But yeah, we had a lot of very talented people on

574
00:36:17,350 --> 00:36:20,790
the project. Everything from the

575
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:24,030
cinematographer to the. To

576
00:36:24,190 --> 00:36:27,780
amazing producers to editors. It was almost

577
00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:33,140
an all Armenian cast, both local and diasporan.

578
00:36:33,620 --> 00:36:37,340
We used a local production team in Armenia and so

579
00:36:37,340 --> 00:36:41,180
for us that was very important to work with local

580
00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:44,980
talent. And we also had a lot of amazing actors and

581
00:36:44,980 --> 00:36:48,740
actresses from. It was really well done, Britain and

582
00:36:48,740 --> 00:36:52,340
us. Yeah, thank you. Very well done. My sister's a judge here in

583
00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:55,950
Southern California and a

584
00:36:55,950 --> 00:36:59,710
brilliant woman. And she, she. I didn't know about it and she sent a

585
00:36:59,710 --> 00:37:03,510
text to the family texturing saying there's a new rom com, which I had

586
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:07,150
not heard that acronym before either. And so that's why we

587
00:37:07,150 --> 00:37:09,349
watched it. And so everybody jumped on it. And then we found out that all

588
00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:13,070
our friends had already seen it and so it was making its way around. I'm

589
00:37:13,070 --> 00:37:15,070
so happy to hear that. Let me ask you this.

590
00:37:17,870 --> 00:37:21,710
Armenia Love Story, romantic comedy, all shot in Armenia.

591
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,520
You're a marketing person. Even though you had, you know, the tradesmen you had on

592
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,280
this show, the what's her name, Angela, Yvette and

593
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,080
all the rest. What, what were the headwinds to getting

594
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,040
this shot and then known

595
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,600
from a marketing standpoint that you didn't expect or that you just, you know,

596
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,880
expected but, you know, had to make the hurdle?

597
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,090
I mean, for us,

598
00:37:49,770 --> 00:37:52,650
really, we wanted the authenticity to come through.

599
00:37:53,370 --> 00:37:56,170
We had some amazing actors.

600
00:37:57,210 --> 00:38:00,730
Krista Marina as an example. She's the lead actress. This is her first time

601
00:38:00,730 --> 00:38:02,970
acting. She's a singer songwriter

602
00:38:05,290 --> 00:38:08,890
for her sort of daytime job. But she.

603
00:38:08,890 --> 00:38:12,650
This is her first time acting. And she did an amazing job

604
00:38:13,290 --> 00:38:17,120
really playing a character that was also very close

605
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,760
to who she is as a person.

606
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,480
And really what we wanted to do

607
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,120
was to show what Armenia is all

608
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,760
about and create a connection with

609
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,520
the global audience with Armenia.

610
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,280
And so it would create some sort of an intrigue in their mind about

611
00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:43,650
Armenia as a country and hopefully entice them to want to travel to Armenia

612
00:38:43,810 --> 00:38:47,650
at some point in the future. A few comments that we kept getting from the

613
00:38:47,650 --> 00:38:50,650
audience, which was really nice to see even from the diaspora in Armenians who have

614
00:38:50,650 --> 00:38:54,210
been to Armenia, was that we didn't know

615
00:38:54,210 --> 00:38:57,410
Armenia could be this beautiful in the winter during Christmas time.

616
00:38:57,810 --> 00:39:00,930
And so a lot of people are now excited to come to Armenia

617
00:39:01,650 --> 00:39:05,170
for Christmas and experience that for the first time.

618
00:39:06,140 --> 00:39:09,860
I mean, yesterday or the day before was the tree

619
00:39:09,860 --> 00:39:13,020
lighting ceremony at Republic Square in Yerevan.

620
00:39:13,420 --> 00:39:16,380
And it's a very, very big deal.

621
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:20,660
So pretty much all of Yerevan, hundreds of thousands of people

622
00:39:20,660 --> 00:39:24,460
gather at Republic Square and the municipality

623
00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:29,020
does this beautiful show. There were drone shows, Beautiful,

624
00:39:29,020 --> 00:39:32,720
beautiful, beautiful performances, singers, dancers, and

625
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:36,360
then a countdown with the tree lighting and fireworks. And

626
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,240
really the experience is amazing. And you

627
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,840
can honestly can't even compare it to the Rockefeller center in New York City.

628
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,560
It's better than that, I promise. It's better than London.

629
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,120
And so I'm not sure if you've. If you haven't seen the videos, I'll send

630
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,920
you some to look at. But it's truly an experience. It's a very special experience

631
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,680
to be here for that and seeing the beautiful

632
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,530
decorations in Armenia, everyone's sort of shocked about

633
00:40:02,530 --> 00:40:06,370
how Armino goes all out for Christmas. So

634
00:40:06,450 --> 00:40:09,930
that brings up an interesting point about the

635
00:40:09,930 --> 00:40:13,730
infrastructure that we were there. Like I said, In 2007,

636
00:40:14,210 --> 00:40:17,810
my wife literally got hit on the head with a firework cone

637
00:40:18,130 --> 00:40:21,570
because there was very little regulation.

638
00:40:22,290 --> 00:40:25,730
And then the next time we went, there was a beautiful concert at the Republic

639
00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:28,170
Square. It was part of the tech conference, I think, or it was during that

640
00:40:28,170 --> 00:40:31,910
week, the tech conference there. And they had the Armenian orchestra there and an amazing

641
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:34,750
setup, very contemporary led

642
00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:39,270
show going on with the thing. So there's a huge chasm between

643
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:42,910
what we saw in 2007 and what we saw in 2024.

644
00:40:43,070 --> 00:40:46,750
Has the infrastructure for those kinds of things. The public

645
00:40:47,150 --> 00:40:50,990
access to artistic events like, like

646
00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:54,790
this one changed much. Has the government gotten involved? Has

647
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:58,180
there been more regulations to make it safer? All those things that go, they go

648
00:40:58,180 --> 00:41:01,580
hand in hand. Definitely. I mean, what I really

649
00:41:01,580 --> 00:41:05,340
appreciate about Armenia as a country that, I mean, I've lived in Canada

650
00:41:05,420 --> 00:41:09,180
most of my life, I've traveled quite a bit. I've yet

651
00:41:09,180 --> 00:41:12,460
to see a country that focuses on and

652
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:16,060
does so many free shows, concerts

653
00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:20,940
for the public, outdoors.

654
00:41:21,820 --> 00:41:25,550
That's something that was. That's. That's something that was very

655
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:29,350
much a shock for me when I moved to Armenia a few years ago

656
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:34,070
that throughout the year, almost once

657
00:41:34,070 --> 00:41:37,870
a month, there's some sort of an event outdoors that's free that

658
00:41:37,870 --> 00:41:41,310
people can go. That experience, whether it's the

659
00:41:41,310 --> 00:41:45,150
ballet, whether it's musical performances, whether it's

660
00:41:45,150 --> 00:41:48,760
a concert, whether it's some sort of a show, it's

661
00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:52,750
always available to the public. And sometimes

662
00:41:52,750 --> 00:41:56,070
even, I mean, when we have paid shows, it's very

663
00:41:56,070 --> 00:41:59,390
affordable. I think Armenia's focus on

664
00:41:59,630 --> 00:42:01,710
culture is super, super important.

665
00:42:03,150 --> 00:42:06,870
And for people to have access to affordable

666
00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:09,630
access to musical

667
00:42:10,590 --> 00:42:14,430
shows or ballet or opera, I really love

668
00:42:14,430 --> 00:42:18,020
that in, in Armenia, just because, I mean, I've living in Canada

669
00:42:18,340 --> 00:42:22,020
to go to a ballet or to go to a concert, I mean, you're. You're

670
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:25,300
paying a few hundred dollars and probably sitting in the nosebleeds.

671
00:42:26,260 --> 00:42:29,780
And. And so I really appreciate that in Armenia it's quite affordable

672
00:42:29,780 --> 00:42:32,900
and, and it's available to many.

673
00:42:33,780 --> 00:42:37,620
I. I've been accused of taking my wife away from her.

674
00:42:37,620 --> 00:42:41,260
She was a folk dancer. I mean, folk dancer for. Since she was 12 till

675
00:42:41,260 --> 00:42:45,030
she got married at 24. So. And then she stopped. So I've been

676
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:48,270
accused of removing her from the cultural dancing.

677
00:42:49,230 --> 00:42:52,990
Why did you go there? If you live in Canada, you're obviously speak very good

678
00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:56,470
English, but you were born in

679
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:59,550
Iran. I was born in Iran. I moved to Toronto when I was 12

680
00:43:00,430 --> 00:43:04,030
with my family. And I've lived in Canada ever

681
00:43:04,030 --> 00:43:07,350
since. I came to

682
00:43:07,350 --> 00:43:10,990
Armenia over the years many times as a tourist. The very first time I came

683
00:43:10,990 --> 00:43:14,310
to Armenia was in 2008 and then

684
00:43:15,110 --> 00:43:18,670
many years sort of following that a few times. I came to

685
00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:21,430
Armenia in 2019 as a birthright volunteer,

686
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:25,670
having been working for for over a decade. At that point

687
00:43:26,470 --> 00:43:30,070
I was sort of figuring out what my next move should be and decided to

688
00:43:30,070 --> 00:43:33,910
take a. A corporate break. And I came to Armenia thinking I

689
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:36,380
was going to be here for a couple of months and end up staying, staying

690
00:43:36,380 --> 00:43:40,180
for five months, volunteering for the American

691
00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:44,020
University of Armenia and the Football Federation of Armenia over those five months

692
00:43:44,020 --> 00:43:46,980
and really loved the lifestyle

693
00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:51,380
and everything about it. Honestly just it. It felt truly

694
00:43:51,380 --> 00:43:55,220
like home. When I returned to Canada in

695
00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:58,340
2020, Covid hit got stuck there and

696
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:02,800
I sort of kept thinking about and dreaming about finding a way to get

697
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,480
back to Armenia. In 2021 I heard about a program

698
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,320
called Egords through the High Commission High

699
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,880
Commissioner's Office of Diasporan affairs with

700
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,560
Zarusin Onyan heard about the program

701
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,160
called IGOR which brought 50 experts from the diaspora to the

702
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,960
country and placed them at different government entities for a one year program.

703
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,200
So I decided to apply because I wanted to come back to Armenia.

704
00:44:29,970 --> 00:44:33,650
I wasn't sure for how long and for exactly what, but I just wanted to

705
00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:37,010
be back here. I applied and actually got in the program

706
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:40,610
and I got actually placed at the tourism committee as a marketing expert.

707
00:44:41,730 --> 00:44:44,050
And I came sort of thinking that I was going to be here for a

708
00:44:44,050 --> 00:44:47,530
year and I would figure out what my next steps were. But within actually being

709
00:44:47,530 --> 00:44:51,250
here for three months I had to leave the program because

710
00:44:51,250 --> 00:44:55,010
I got appointed as the head of tourism of Armenia. So next thing

711
00:44:55,010 --> 00:44:58,490
I knew I sort of had moved to Armenia without thinking I was moving to

712
00:44:58,490 --> 00:45:02,170
Armenia and sort of four years in I'm still, still very much here.

713
00:45:02,970 --> 00:45:06,810
And so yeah, I mean I, for me it has really just been a

714
00:45:06,810 --> 00:45:10,530
dream come true being able to live

715
00:45:10,530 --> 00:45:14,370
and work in Armenia. I think a lot of diasporans unfortunately look at it

716
00:45:14,370 --> 00:45:17,530
as a sacrifice and I cannot tell you that

717
00:45:17,690 --> 00:45:21,490
that's very much far from

718
00:45:21,490 --> 00:45:25,050
the truth of sort of the reality of any of people

719
00:45:25,050 --> 00:45:28,760
that diaspora Armenians that have moved to Armenia, I mean I can't

720
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,880
speak for everybody but I can tell you that from my experience

721
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,160
it's definitely added more to my life that I have been able to add

722
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,800
to it as Armenia as a country. So

723
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,040
selfishly it's been sort of a great experience and

724
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,640
truly open has opened my eyes in general.

725
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,400
About life and sort of the importance

726
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,240
of things that are important in life. Because you get into

727
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:58,040
this hamster wheel in North America, I feel like in the corporate world it's

728
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,340
sort of like run, run, run for the thing, for the next promotion, for the

729
00:46:01,340 --> 00:46:05,100
next job. And I think Armenia has a way of

730
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,700
putting things in perspective and, and adding an element of sort of the

731
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:12,180
quality of life that you might not know you're missing, but

732
00:46:12,180 --> 00:46:15,820
truly need in your life. So what a well articulated

733
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:20,420
response that just. I'm media trained. Can you

734
00:46:20,420 --> 00:46:24,180
tell? Well, no, but you. It's coming from your heart and

735
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:27,770
that's the part that matters, you know, and you're right, like

736
00:46:27,770 --> 00:46:31,050
most diasporans come there for a gunlunk or something

737
00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:34,250
and they, you know, they feel like they're being so Armenian because they have their

738
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:36,890
kid baptized in Armenian church. But

739
00:46:38,170 --> 00:46:41,650
you weren't planning on any of this. You just felt the calling and you were

740
00:46:41,650 --> 00:46:45,290
going to come hang for a little bit and all of a sudden you

741
00:46:45,290 --> 00:46:48,970
realize that this was really close to your soul to

742
00:46:48,970 --> 00:46:52,690
do. And we have a cousin who's working there right now, Sean

743
00:46:52,690 --> 00:46:56,180
Petrosian. Shank Petrosian is your

744
00:46:56,180 --> 00:46:59,700
cousin? My wife's first cousin, yeah. You know him well,

745
00:46:59,700 --> 00:47:03,300
obviously. Well, of course. That's why you're laughing. I can tell. That's that he. I

746
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:06,980
just talked about the Armenia Project. He's the executive director of the

747
00:47:06,980 --> 00:47:10,420
Armenia Project. He's a. He was a big

748
00:47:10,420 --> 00:47:14,060
supporter of him and his father of my business, of the wine side. And

749
00:47:14,060 --> 00:47:17,620
he's very close to Amy Kashkarian. And so I'm a collector too,

750
00:47:17,620 --> 00:47:21,220
so how fun. And I mean, Shunt's been doing that. And I mean, I

751
00:47:21,220 --> 00:47:25,020
didn't name drop him at first, but I mean, Shunt, at the helm of

752
00:47:25,020 --> 00:47:28,600
the Armenian Project's been doing a really amazing job again of, of

753
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,360
really promoting Armenia. Promoting Armenia as a

754
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,200
wine destination, as a wine tourism destination, as a country that has.

755
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,960
That should be looked at closer by the

756
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,480
global community for, you know, not just,

757
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:47,480
you know, wine, but food and adventure and, and tourism

758
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,280
in general. And I think there's a lot of, you know, cool people like

759
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,060
him that are doing a lot of cool stuff to put Armenia on the map.

760
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:58,540
Well, he is a pro. We know this already. Obviously his

761
00:47:58,540 --> 00:48:02,340
resume is impeccable when it comes to being a producer. And

762
00:48:02,340 --> 00:48:05,060
so let's talk about that. You think that's what it's going to take? This is

763
00:48:05,060 --> 00:48:07,700
pretty much the last subject because we're at 48 minutes already,

764
00:48:08,980 --> 00:48:12,660
but is that what it's going to take is sort of a western

765
00:48:12,660 --> 00:48:16,260
influence with people like Shant, like yourselves that have

766
00:48:16,260 --> 00:48:19,950
experience outside of Armenia to bring that experience

767
00:48:19,950 --> 00:48:23,710
and that sort of education to the table to help promote

768
00:48:23,710 --> 00:48:27,510
Armenia. Yes and no. I mean,

769
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:31,350
I don't like to downplay the importance of the local community in Armenia that

770
00:48:31,350 --> 00:48:35,070
have. Yeah, I don't mean no. But I just lived and work and, and

771
00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:38,750
every day you know, contribute to Armenia in general.

772
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:43,310
I think it is definitely

773
00:48:44,030 --> 00:48:45,550
beneficial to have

774
00:48:47,810 --> 00:48:51,530
a outside perspective, whether it's from Europe or

775
00:48:51,530 --> 00:48:55,330
whether it's from North America to, for people to

776
00:48:55,330 --> 00:48:59,090
bring their expertise to Armenia. And I mean being

777
00:48:59,090 --> 00:49:02,770
able to implement things that may be a little bit different that one

778
00:49:02,770 --> 00:49:06,490
we're used to, but at the same time

779
00:49:06,490 --> 00:49:10,210
being able to work with the locals to be able

780
00:49:10,210 --> 00:49:13,910
to do that. I mean I always, and you know, it's always

781
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:17,070
a problem when you have Diaspora Armenians that come to Armenia thinking

782
00:49:17,710 --> 00:49:21,550
I'm going to change Armenia, I'm going to save Armenia. That sort of

783
00:49:21,790 --> 00:49:25,550
saving mentality for me just doesn't work. Yes,

784
00:49:26,030 --> 00:49:29,590
because Armenia's exists and will continue to exist

785
00:49:29,590 --> 00:49:33,390
without the Western, you know, diaspora army is coming to save it.

786
00:49:34,910 --> 00:49:38,510
But I think it's, I think a collaboration between sort of the

787
00:49:38,510 --> 00:49:41,490
Diaspora and Armenians. Different mentality, different experiences.

788
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,800
Being able to mesh that with what the locals are doing, to be able to

789
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,520
elevate that is very, very important.

790
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,600
And yeah, I mean we have a lot of brain

791
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,720
power in the Diaspora.

792
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,400
For me, it's important for the diasporans to be engaged

793
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,480
in Armenia as a country. Political things set aside.

794
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,640
Even though I worked for the government, I was never sort of a quote unquote

795
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,220
political figure. For me,

796
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:16,500
Armenia as sort of a republic

797
00:50:18,180 --> 00:50:21,860
needs Armenians. Regardless of where you're from, where you live,

798
00:50:21,860 --> 00:50:25,620
what your background is, to be united. And so I think

799
00:50:25,780 --> 00:50:29,460
we need to focus a little bit on putting

800
00:50:29,460 --> 00:50:33,140
our brain power together and all our skills and efforts together to work

801
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:37,300
collaboratively in a way that

802
00:50:38,260 --> 00:50:42,110
will help take

803
00:50:42,110 --> 00:50:45,790
Armenia to the next level. I mean, unfortunately Armenians sometimes

804
00:50:45,790 --> 00:50:49,470
like redundancy doing the same thing. Well, if they're doing it, I'm going to do

805
00:50:49,470 --> 00:50:52,750
it, but I'm going to do it bigger. Instead of let's work together and sort

806
00:50:52,750 --> 00:50:56,470
of make to do it once but just better. I

807
00:50:56,470 --> 00:51:00,030
think there's a lot of that happening which

808
00:51:00,670 --> 00:51:04,350
unfortunately in that case for me just doesn't work. So I think there's

809
00:51:04,350 --> 00:51:07,790
just overall, and you mentioned two Diaspora Armenians coming to

810
00:51:07,790 --> 00:51:11,140
Armenia for baptisms and weddings and those are great, come spend money.

811
00:51:11,370 --> 00:51:15,050
Armenia definitely highly Encourage it. It's definitely going to be a much better party than,

812
00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:18,890
than if you were to do it in la, trust me.

813
00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:22,850
But regardless, I think that's for

814
00:51:22,850 --> 00:51:26,090
Armenians. I always encourage them to find ways to contribute beyond that,

815
00:51:26,410 --> 00:51:30,250
beyond just tourism, beyond visiting. There's a lot of cool

816
00:51:30,250 --> 00:51:34,050
volunteer opportunities. No one's, no one's asking people to move here full time. I

817
00:51:34,050 --> 00:51:37,210
know it's a, you know, a big commitment, especially if you have families and commitments

818
00:51:37,210 --> 00:51:40,590
and jobs and this and that, the other thing. So, I mean, it's not always

819
00:51:40,590 --> 00:51:44,190
about repatriation specifically. There's a lot of ways to get involved

820
00:51:44,910 --> 00:51:48,630
in Armenia beyond that. You know, whether

821
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:51,630
it's investing, whether it's volunteering, whether it's,

822
00:51:53,390 --> 00:51:56,750
I don't know, finding things that speak to you and finding

823
00:51:56,830 --> 00:52:00,510
ways to get involved in Armenia. I think that's

824
00:52:00,510 --> 00:52:04,190
important. Of course, the diasporan community is important with what they do

825
00:52:04,190 --> 00:52:07,880
outside Armenia in the diaspora, but I think we

826
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,720
also need some of that brain power locally as well. That

827
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:15,560
was very inspiring. Let's see

828
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,280
how many people we get. Moving to Armenia now from the

829
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,039
podcast, for the podcast. So I'm going to stop the recording here in a second,

830
00:52:23,039 --> 00:52:25,560
but after that I want to, I want to share a couple things with you,

831
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,360
but this has been quite inspiring. Like I said,

832
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,290
it's been entertaining, it's been informative, and

833
00:52:33,690 --> 00:52:37,370
it feels like with people, people like you there, particularly the marketing

834
00:52:37,370 --> 00:52:40,650
side, that, you know, the needle is going to move

835
00:52:41,130 --> 00:52:44,970
more than it had in the past. And it's. So I think, like I

836
00:52:44,970 --> 00:52:48,770
said, in the wine trade alone, the, the, the curve has been

837
00:52:48,770 --> 00:52:52,450
rather dramatic to get to the world stage in an industry

838
00:52:52,450 --> 00:52:55,850
that's very, very slow. And in

839
00:52:56,170 --> 00:52:59,390
a lot of it, there's a lot of key players that made that happen. But

840
00:52:59,550 --> 00:53:03,310
it seems like your presence there on the marketing side, to help

841
00:53:03,310 --> 00:53:06,590
people produce movies about, you know,

842
00:53:06,910 --> 00:53:10,670
singers and songwriters to, you know, tourism

843
00:53:10,990 --> 00:53:14,670
is really one of the key, key factors in keeping it growing.

844
00:53:16,110 --> 00:53:19,910
Thank you. I mean, I, I love Armenia

845
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:23,550
and I'm passionate about Armenia and whenever I get to speak about my

846
00:53:23,550 --> 00:53:26,860
experience here, it's always a pleasure. So I don't hear any

847
00:53:26,860 --> 00:53:30,100
Ontario Canadian accent. Eh?

848
00:53:30,660 --> 00:53:34,460
Eh? I mean, I can try. Sometimes it comes out. I

849
00:53:34,460 --> 00:53:37,780
just need a glass or two of wine and then it might come out. Yeah,

850
00:53:37,780 --> 00:53:40,260
well, I mean, I got Iranian barskahai.

851
00:53:41,140 --> 00:53:43,060
Canadian accent. I haven't heard it.

852
00:53:44,740 --> 00:53:48,180
Such an honor. People get very confused when I speak.

853
00:53:50,420 --> 00:53:53,100
Such an honor to have you on the show and a pleasure to talk. I

854
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:56,770
hope we can do it again. Thank you. Same. If not

855
00:53:57,410 --> 00:54:01,210
Civil Net usually gives me a studio when I'm there to go

856
00:54:01,210 --> 00:54:04,610
upstairs and do some podcasting, so maybe that'll happen in May.

857
00:54:05,090 --> 00:54:07,890
Yeah. So definitely. Keep me posted next time you're in Armenia. I won't hold it

858
00:54:07,890 --> 00:54:10,810
against you that you were here last year and you didn't tell me, but. I'm

859
00:54:10,810 --> 00:54:13,730
sorry, but. Cheers.

860
00:54:15,010 --> 00:54:15,570
Thank you.