From Vineyards to AI: How Technology Is Shaping the Future of Wine with Laurent David.

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A great wine is something that you have a glass of it

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and you want another one. It's easy to be— to have something very

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strong, powerful, full body. You take a sip and say,

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wow, great, you want more? Uh, I'm good.

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Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks

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with Paul Kaye. Hey, welcome

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to Wine Talks with Paul Kaye, and we are, we are at an away game,

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way away from where I'm usually at, which is in Paris, Texas, at, at Wine

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Paris. And we're in the, uh, LA Wine Tech booth with the

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president, we're gonna call him David Laurent of the— which is a

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consortium of— so you're really an

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organization that is bringing tech to the wine

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world. That, that's exactly the point. I'm coming from the tech. I used to work

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for Apple for, uh, 10 years launching iPhone here and there in Europe.

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And I, I moved away, uh, in 2019 to the wine world.

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That was my old dream since I was a kid. So I'm also winemaker in

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Saint-Émilion doing my own wine. And I, I keep a foot, you know,

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one, one in the vines, one in the tech where I'm helping all those startups

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to innovate in the wine world. Well, this is very

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synergistic. My daughter works for Apple. Yeah. Yes. This is

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her. She's very smart. Yeah. She ran, uh, two stores in Southern

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California and now she's in charge of, um, a part of a team that

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brings women back into the workforce. Okay. On the hardware side. Very important.

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And so I'm telling her, you stick with this, right? You said it's

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very— Apple seems to be such a successful company. It's a fantastic company. I miss

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it a lot. I still have a lot of friends. I admire what they do.

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And, uh, I'm, I'm sure great things are coming. Were you in America at that

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time? Uh, I was, uh, traveling from Europe. I was living in London at the

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time, traveling kind of once a month to, uh, Cupertino, California. Yeah.

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I, I enjoyed it. It was tiring, uh, 9-hour jet lag. But it was

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so cool. Great time. She had her first visit to

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corporate and was just taken by the whole place.

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Yeah, it's beautiful. And I, you know, I was at corporate America when my first

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part of my career, I was with a company called Xerox, which was— Xerox, great

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company. Sort of at the same precipice as Apple is now, but failed

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miserably on technology, even though they're very good at it. Apple took a lot from,

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from, from Xerox. Yeah, they're talented group. But this is

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interesting for me because You come from the

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tech world, which is an important part of the world. Yeah. Particularly

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today. And we were just talking about AI. I use AI extensively daily.

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And now you're bringing it to the wine world, which

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I, I'm not having a hard time grasping that, but I'm having— trying

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to understand the idea between this traditional company, this

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traditional business, this farmers that are producing something from the

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soil and you bringing technology to them to help

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them understand the world— world. Well, in fact, this is pretty

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close, even though we can't imagine it, because we see a, a

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wine as a very agricultural thing. And, you know,

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winemakers are obsessed with innovation, right? Each

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winemaker— I'm sure you visited— they probably made you taste something

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they are preparing, a new barrel, a new

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grape, a new wine. And that's an obsession in the wine world to improve

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your wine, and you have only one chance once a year. That's right. Software you

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can do once a week. So slow. It's so slow. That's why it's slow. But

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the, the obsession for the best wine is there. The obsession for changing,

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improving is there. So now the only big difference is the pace.

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So the, the— this is a question I ask every winemaker comes in. You're

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a winemaker and you're on the tech side. What does that mean? What does it

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mean to produce the best wine? Obviously the wines like— well,

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let me give you an example. The 1949 Charles Krug

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Private Selection, you know, was just rated 100, and

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that's a, that's a wine made with zero technology. But as a

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winemaker, what, what does that mean to you to say I want the best wine

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I can make? Is that the best expression of terroir, the best expression of, of

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you as a person? Yeah, that's a huge question. Yeah. And it's

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so, it's so important, but it's so important. What is the best

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one for you, for me, for my 20-year-old daughter, uh,

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and you know, for, for Spanish, for an Italian, for—

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no, I can't answer to that. I think there will be very, very different,

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uh, answers. Number of points used to be something very simple

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for people to understand. Yes, it was good, great, okay, or

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bad. Uh, but all the ones seems to be good with the point system. So

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I think the point system is probably going a little bit away. Now people are

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more looking at their, uh, uh, Vivino type of,

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uh, uh, marks they have there rather than, uh, trusting,

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uh, uh, something else. But that's the way the world we live in today, right?

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Michelin is losing versus TripAdvisor.

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That's the way we are, right? Um, so having the best wine for me,

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I will give you my definition. Yes, which is Saint-Émilion.

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It's Saint-Émilion, yeah, or yeah, of course I love that place. Because,

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I mean, the, the, the vines love to be there for centuries. So that's a

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good sign. To have good wine, you might— you may need to have good vines.

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And, and, uh, uh, place where I work, Château Edmuse, we have

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planted wine since the 17th century. So that means something,

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probably, to produce a great wine. Now, for me, a great wine is

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something that you have a glass of it and you

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want another one. Yes. You know, it's, uh, it's easy to be— to have

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something very strong, powerful, full body. You take

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a sip and say, wow, great, uh, wow,

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that emotion. You want more? Uh, I'm good. Yeah, right.

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So, so for me, you, you see that point? Yes. The thing that one, one

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glass calls another one, right? For me, that's, that— so it's a

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balance. Probably a great wine definition is a balance of a lot of things.

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So that doesn't give you an answer. What I'm trying to— what I want to

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do is the one that makes people happy. And I'm not, I'm not saying

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drunk. No, no, not at all. No, of course. I, I want people to

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feel an emotion. Uh, you know, you've seen that movie, uh,

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Ratatouille? Yes. When, when the, the judge, you know, these critics go

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to the restaurants, he's having a, a tomato

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and something, zucchinis, and he travels back to

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when he was a kid. That's right. He said, my mom is— this is powerful.

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But I would— if I can get to that with my wine, I will be

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so happy. You know, years ago we were in Paris, we were here in Paris,

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we went to a, you know, brasserie, you know, touriste,

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but I ordered the quiche. Yeah. And it came and I

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looked at my wife and she says, what's wrong with you? I go,

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this smell is from my mom's quiche. Ah, this is so powerful. 40 years

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ago. I knew you. Yeah. And it was— I almost cried because it was so

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powerful. And, but so that, that defines something in

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the wine world because I have this romantic theory that

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whether you drink, you know, Strawberry Hill or Boone's Farm or,

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or Josh, you know, off Apothic Red off the shelf, or you drink a

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fine Saint-Émilion, eventually when you taste that

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one wine that does what you say, you realize

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there's something else to this. There's some— it's taking you somewhere else.

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Yes. Not just the alcohol. And so isn't that the,

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isn't that the crux of all of these people here? I mean, I can't believe

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the amount of wine in this show, all with the same objective,

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preferably. Uh, probably yes. And

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that's, uh, that's not easy. And, and that's great with wine because it's a journey.

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Yeah. You never stop on discovering. I, I spoke to one of the best sommelier

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in the world and he told me what he loves about wine. He, even though

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after 20 years of tasting all the wines in the world from all the region,

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from all ages, It keeps on learning because there's always something

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new. So that, that's, that's life basically. Every day is different

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and what, what you did yesterday counts, but what you're doing today now

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together is more important. It's like life in a bottle. Yes, life

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in a bottle. So when you, when you do this, and I want to go

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around today and I want to talk to every one of your vendors here to

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talk about what they're doing in the world of wine tech. Now I have people

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that come to my office, they sit and they're

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I had one woman tell me she thought Château Lafite Rothschild would be in a

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can one day. And so I, I, yeah, that's the face

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I made. So, but when it comes to tech in the world,

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I mean, are we talking about wine tech where we help the

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wineries bring it to the market? Are we helping them understand what

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needs to work behind the scenes in order to be, uh, you know,

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to produce the best wine they can? Where, where does this organization lie with the

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tech? And presenting it to the wine— the wine world? I, I

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will not talk— not talk to you about tech, but about— better about

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experience. I think we wine world are guilty

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to make the wine too intellectual, too complex, too

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f— as if you needed a kind of, uh, WSET 4 just to

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be able to speak, uh, with authority about the wine. What, what

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matters is you like it or you don't like it. Yes. Second step is

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Why do you like it or why don't you like it? And that is the

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most important. And you know, we, is, is the

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glass coming by, the wine coming by the glass, by, by a can

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or whatever? I think we need to go back to our customers. We

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lost the trust, the interest of younger generation, Gen Z.

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And, and you know, if the moments, I think for me the most

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important, that's the moment of consumption have changed a lot. The traditional,

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uh, a Sunday lunch with all the family. It's gone away. Yeah, right.

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Most of the families are just one parent. Yes. And

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you, you drink a bottle with some friends outside at a barbecue,

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at an apéritif, as we call it in France. So, so

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we, we should be able to get the wine better served at

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that time. Is it in a can? Is it in a smaller bottle? Is it

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by the glass at the restaurants? Who cares? Yeah, right.

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No, it does. You're right. I think, I think we're trying to

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bring to the regular table— I call

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it the value of an honest wine. Honest wine being the wines you make,

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wines that express something, wines that bring you back to someplace, the

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quiche that brings you back someplace. But I'm wondering where the—

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yeah, you're right. Maybe it's not tech side, but certainly in

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today's industrial world, digital world, We

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need to keep up with what's going on. We need to use it. Our way,

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our way. We can't ignore it. Yes. And so wineries are

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farmers. Yeah. Right? They want to be in the vineyard. They don't

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want to— they don't, you know, I don't understand this. And I'll, I'll never forget

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we were traveling to Napa just the month before COVID had long

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conversations with what are we going to do? Because we don't have a chat

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button on our website. We don't have a, you know, robust direct-to-consumer

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uh, software program, CRM. So

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are we bringing those to the table for these folks to try— the smaller wineries

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are trying to figure out how we're going to use technology to, to round things

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out, to bring to the table? You know, when you're at

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the bottom of a curve, that's the moment you can— you have to stand up

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and, and jump to do something different. COVID pushed us to

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do that, and wine sales, uh, digital

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wine sales at that time boomed. Uh, everywhere in the world.

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And even winemakers who were not just selling at their cellar and that's it

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had to do online, and they did. Not

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all of them, but they did it. So I, I think I told you about

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this, uh, a perception, this need to innovate in the wine world,

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in winemakers' head. Yes, I think they're much—

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we underestimate them. They're much eager and

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happy to move forward to new things, using new

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tools, using AI in their decision-making, freeing time to be

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more into the vineyards, into the cellar, doing the wine, than

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doing paper and doing, you know, posts on, on social

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networks. So, so I think that all those tools are now available

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here. We should, we should just share

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them the news. Yes. And they will take it. I'm

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convinced about that. Is there a disconnect between

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me as a winemaker wanting to just produce my

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best expression, and that's what

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the market gets? Like, you're going to produce a Saint-Émilion, we're going to put

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melon and Cabernet Franc, and this is what I think it is.

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And, and the point I'm getting to is, is wine so unique as a product

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that you either— you produce what the consumer wants

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which could be over-sugared, not so dry,

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in a can versus what you think it should be out of the

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vineyard because you didn't touch it. I mean, I just came from the Raw Wine

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Festival yesterday. Yeah. You know, those wines are all like, you know,

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untouched. So

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do you— when you talk to a winemaker who's working in your

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sphere, do they express that concern? Like, well, I want to

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make it this way. And you're like, yeah, but you gotta, you gotta deal with

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the marketplace this way. Yeah, I mean, you, you, you pointed out

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the right way. I mean, winemakers are not

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only industrial or agriculture. There's a point of view, there's an opinion.

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You're defending something, uh, and, and this

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is what you've got— try to translate into your wine. There's some kind of art

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creation around it. Yes. Um, is this coming

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from a proper marketing analysis of consumer needs?

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No, not at all. Yes. And maybe that's a problem because we

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should probably understand that better. But let me rephrase to my previous

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company. Steve Jobs used to say, consumers, they don't know what they

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want until they have it in their hands. So we proposing,

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we keep on proposing and you know, we need smart people, we need

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connected people, we need people taking risk to reinvent this

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wine world and something great will come out of it. Wine

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is all about celebrating, it's all about being together. And this digital

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life we have today removes us from these interactions.

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And the need for that is bigger than

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anywhere in human history. So, so I think,

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right, wine, what I call wine is a, for me, is a social

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potion, you know, something secret that gives you

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a superpower to discuss, entertain, meet,

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share with people you don't know. So that, that is something fantastic.

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And the more we're gonna share that, the better. You're right.

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And I suppose the concept, you know,

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I spent 35 years doing this, selling wine DTC. And

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let's just take Sancerre for an example. You— nobody bought

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Sancerre 20 years ago. Nobody cared. Never heard of it. You— now you hear people

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in the restaurant saying, I want Sancerre. You know why? No. Thank you,

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Taylor Swift. What's that? Thank you to Taylor Swift. Yeah, that's right. Oh yeah. Well,

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that's— there you go. Okay. Well, wait, but that's a really good point. Yeah. I

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mean, that's almost down the line some kind of tech or at least a

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popularity issue about wine. And wow, the, the, the wine

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purists would say, wow, that's kind of weird. You know, Sancerre's always been

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really good, but it wasn't until Taylor Swift said something that people started wanting

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it. Yeah. I told you it's not about being good or bad. Yes. It's not

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about that. Actually, I had one of my cousins at a Spanish

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restaurant, asked the waitress for a Sancerre. And I said,

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they don't have Sancerre at a Spanish restaurant. That's not— but they totally don't. But

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they have Sauvignon, I'm sure they have Sauvignon, or they have something else which is

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great to taste. Yes, of course, Albariño or something. Oh, it's not difficult, I would

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say, to make a good wine today. Yes, a great one is probably something

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different, and definition is var— change a lot, but the, the knowledge

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is there, right? There is some great universities,

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uh, uh, in California, in, uh, in— well, everywhere in the world where you can

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learn the how, right? The technique is known,

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there's, uh, research, there's publication, there's teachers. So

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You probably— it's difficult to make a bad wine. Now, to make a great wine

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is something different. And maybe we need Taylor Swift. Thank you, Taylor. And

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we see— yes, right. We, we seek the great

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stuff. We can't always afford it, but we seek it, right? Actually, you get a

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chance to taste some amazing wines here if you take the time to do it.

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I don't know. Let you know, before, before COVID

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2019, at least in America, and my company was sort of

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a a, a temperature gauge of what was going on. I, I always

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knew what was going to be popular because every Tuesday I tasted wine

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and I would see what's coming into the marketplace. I'd also see what's

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distressed because they're selling it cheaper than they were before.

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And so, but then COVID hit and I saw 2019,

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we were— this industry was starting to suffer. COVID hit,

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could do no wrong. They'd buy whatever I told them to buy. And

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then after COVID, it just started to they just started to tail off.

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And I, I didn't— you guys use a lot of data and a

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lot of your clients use a lot of data. What have you seen in that

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data? Have you seen that it is generationally

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supported by the Gen Zs or it's not? Or the millennials? Everybody was screaming about

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the millennials. What are we going to do about them? They're not drinking, but it

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turns out they are. How are we using data to make these

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decisions? Or how do you teach somebody to use the data? I was a marketing

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research guy. That's why I was— Another good creation.

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Thank you for that. But let's go back to the roots of what you said.

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I mean, um, in my time at Apple, uh, going to

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Cupertino, I was spending my weekends in Napa and Sonoma.

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I think you guys in the US mastered, uh, wine tourism.

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Definitely this is something. And, and, and I look at what you done with the

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clubs, the lists, and I say, wow, this is something super cool in

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order to make people connected. Right,

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straight to the vineyards and, and removing all the barriers in between

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and just having a daran click. So what I did with my,

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uh, wine Château Edmousse, I create a club for, uh, for consumer

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club basically. I copy paste the US concept, making it a French

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way. And I have 200, no, 300 now club members.

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And you know, I connect them as much as I can. I have WhatsApp for

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that. They got messages from me working in the vineyards. You

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know, I, I imagine someone working in Singapore getting a message at

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lunchtime of seeing me just cutting the— some, some grapes in the

295
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vines. And I think this, this can create emotions, this can

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connect, create connection. And out of the data, I think the technology

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today allow us to build bridges

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from the grapes, from the vines to the consumer. And

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young generation, they're digital. They're native digital.

300
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So if we don't use their tools, how on earth can we

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get them getting our story? You know, it's not about getting a TV

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ad before the news on ABA, on, on ABC or

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CNN, right? They don't care about it. They don't care. It's, I, it

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has to be on the social network, on AI. We, we have to speak their

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language, being at the place where they are. And I think con— to

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connect with them, digital is one thing. And second thing for me is

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Creating events. I think what is missing today, we talked about that

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previously, is that the, the way of consuming wine we used to

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have, uh, uh, is, is different today because everything has changed

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since COVID and with digital. And we should find ways to

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recreate, uh, moments where people have, uh, uh,

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drink wines. Let me give you an example. There is a, a rock festival in

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France called Hellfest. It's all about rock, metal, heavy, heavy stuff.

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Uh, it was all about beer. They had beer, you know, those guys drink beers

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and beers and beers, but they're in the region where they produce some

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great white wine. Well, ni sauvignon ni le Loire,

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basically. And they start to introduce a wine 2 years ago.

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And you know what? It works. 20% of the consumption now is

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white wine from the region. Yeah, right. Because we brought the

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wine to the location where people are celebrating and they want to be together. If

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there was only beer by can, maybe they have a wine by can at the

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place. Yes. That works. You know,

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so that again, where tech— this is where I think

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some of the tech lies. One, it's gonna be very difficult to teach a

325
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farmer data-driven reactions. Yeah. That's hard to do.

326
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Yeah. But— Agree. There's also the movement, and I think

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this, this patch represents a club

328
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of a group of people in the '70s and '80s in America,

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150 chapters to experience wine. They go to dinner, they'd

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have speakers. Robert Mondavi would come down and speak to my father. Great moments. And

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so that, that, so that I think that's a critical part of what we do

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is getting this experience, that memory, just like the quiche.

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And when you, when you start a club on Cento Milione at your winery

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and they visit and they sign up, every time they get that

335
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box, Yeah, they remember that day. Oh yeah. Right. Oh yeah. And so my

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business was founded on that principle, which was my dad was bringing to the

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table a story. Well, in the

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late '90s, all this junk was coming from Europe, 50

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cents a liter, putting in different labels, and it

340
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soured, I think, the consumers. Okay. They would get even at

341
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$60 a case free delivery, you know, they would go, this

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isn't very good. And I think it's really important that, that experience,

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we start driving that experience again. Yeah. And so what

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I've landed on with the data part is how do we use the data?

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And I'm not— this is not necessarily a question, it's sort of a hypothetical question,

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but how do we use the data to

347
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attract the experience, to augment the experience? Uh, how do we

348
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get a winery to use AI to understand targeting

349
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that data? I'm not sure yet personally, but Isn't that what we're trying to

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do? That's what we're trying to do, and we have no options but doing it.

351
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Yes, let's be honest, right? We are at a turning point. If we don't do

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it, uh, then probably wine can disappear.

353
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Yes, I mean, that's, that's, that's an option on the table. You— I read that

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in something you wrote, and I thought, wow, that was pretty powerful. I will be

355
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dying for that, and I, I don't want to admit that. That's why I'm fighting

356
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for that— against that, sorry. Yes, so, so, but you said two words:

357
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data What, what do we need data for? We need data to create

358
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story. You said that's what you built and experiences. So

359
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how do we transform the, you know, the numbers of something people

360
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can understand? How do we reach to that? There will be

361
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factor number one will be that the winemakers today, the one taking

362
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the power in the vineyards are the guys who have

363
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40, 45, you know, the new generations.

364
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They're replacing the old chaps, such as me. And they're

365
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coming— and for them, internet is— they're native on internet. That's not the

366
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baseline. This is the baseline. They live on internet. So that will speed

367
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up. That will speed up adoption. But that's not fast enough. That's

368
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not fast enough. So what we should do is what we try to do

369
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here is to show the face of this data

370
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and what's the benefit for the winemakers. You

371
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know, papers, administration for a winemaker is a nightmare,

372
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especially in very regulated countries such as France, and we have in Europe.

373
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So we have AI tools now. You can save, save up to 2, 3 hours

374
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a week. Oh yeah, using those tools. And I— that fantastic. It's

375
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amazing. Then you can do what you like to do, wine, and take care of

376
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your customers and not being on, uh, talking to declaration

377
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of a legal thing and legal that. Right? So that, that's the—

378
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showing the benefit is one. I think

379
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we have other benefits. You know, we have, for example, a company here, you

380
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just take a picture of your bottle with your iPhone.

381
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Sorry for that. I could have said with your Google phone, but I didn't say

382
00:23:35,390 --> 00:23:39,230
it. And you send a picture to them. And in

383
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less than 6 hours with AI, they can generate

384
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moments of your consumption of bottle consumption. In great

385
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restaurants, in great location. I just started a, a campaign on

386
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Instagram to show that my bottle is available in 32 countries. Uh,

387
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they, they took one picture of my bottle and they made me a picture in

388
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front of the Hollywood sign. Yeah, right. In California,

389
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uh, Chinese Wall, uh, uh, uh, 9 locations

390
00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:08,430
in the world where I can ship my wine. It cost me €250, so less

391
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than $300. I didn't, I didn't spend any carbon footprint

392
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with that. I didn't have to travel the world to take that picture, even though

393
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I don't have the budget. And it took me 6 hours. No, it's beautiful. And

394
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now, now my— on Instagram, you can see my bottle traveling the world

395
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as if it was a, a, a Polaroid picture, you know, kind of postcard

396
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memory. It's so— I've been using— showing the benefit. I, I had this

397
00:24:31,390 --> 00:24:34,910
show idea. Actually, I have this passion to create

398
00:24:34,990 --> 00:24:38,830
shows on wine that aren't swirling and sniffing. Yeah. And so I've

399
00:24:38,830 --> 00:24:42,070
been using AI. My wife says, why are you wasting your time? But I've created

400
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:46,070
these song tableside shows, these little 30-second

401
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:49,430
shows of a song and

402
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:53,790
doing something all AI. I sit down, I, I don't go through the whole

403
00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:57,229
process, but I'll send you a couple. They're very funny. I think they're very funny.

404
00:24:57,229 --> 00:25:00,990
But, you know, so here's, here's something interesting. You already said it, but the

405
00:25:00,990 --> 00:25:04,830
experience of wine is so important. Yeah. Napa Valley

406
00:25:04,830 --> 00:25:08,560
is suffering greatly. You know, tasting room traffic

407
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,320
is off 30%. Oh, that's massive. It's

408
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,640
huge. I didn't know that. Oh yeah, it's bad. And I was— I'm sitting with

409
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,400
Grgich Hills, you know, it's one of the great established wineries of, of Napa Valley.

410
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,140
Violet Grgich, good friend. And, and she's saying, you know, we, we—

411
00:25:23,140 --> 00:25:25,480
they're not coming in the door. Well, there's a lot of reasons for that. One

412
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,440
is it's very expensive to go to Napa Valley now. Yeah. It's $1,000 a night.

413
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,280
Right, price went up. You know, maybe that's part of the problem, right?

414
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,930
That's part of the problem. So, and I'm, I'm gonna go back to

415
00:25:35,930 --> 00:25:39,330
this, to the, the beginning of email digital

416
00:25:39,330 --> 00:25:43,090
marketing when I, when I was doing that. And that was,

417
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:47,530
I would sell a membership as a handshake, much like you would sell a

418
00:25:47,530 --> 00:25:51,370
membership in the tasting room or in Napa Valley. Yeah. So my

419
00:25:51,370 --> 00:25:54,530
con— and, and those people were very loyal because they met me.

420
00:25:55,010 --> 00:25:58,330
Yeah. We stand in a booth, I tell 'em the program, they take the brochure,

421
00:25:58,330 --> 00:26:01,290
they sign up, and then they got that package. And you plant a, a seed

422
00:26:01,290 --> 00:26:04,890
like a quiche. Right. That's exactly— that's, you have that moment. So the internet

423
00:26:04,890 --> 00:26:08,630
doesn't provide that experience because we're— like you said, the

424
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:11,790
generation behind us, they're so used to the internet and buying and selling,

425
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:16,070
uh, subscriptions, canceling subscriptions, you know, with the push of a button.

426
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:18,830
Yeah. So how do we create the experience

427
00:26:20,110 --> 00:26:23,550
without the experience, right? So what I did, what I tried to do,

428
00:26:23,870 --> 00:26:27,670
is create an introduction video. Every time somebody signed up for my club, the

429
00:26:27,670 --> 00:26:30,590
next day they got an email from me. It was me in my warehouse going

430
00:26:30,590 --> 00:26:33,830
through the process, how I choose the wines, and all that. And that was my

431
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:37,550
idea to bring myself into their home because

432
00:26:37,550 --> 00:26:40,470
they never met me before. They never had a conversation with me before.

433
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So, and I don't know if it worked or not because we didn't have the

434
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:49,190
data back then to really understand it. We had, you know, click-throughs and we had—

435
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:53,670
Yeah, which is already, uh, you know, KPI, right? Yeah, it's like old stuff

436
00:26:53,670 --> 00:26:57,230
now. But now we have a lot more information and we can be more

437
00:26:57,230 --> 00:27:00,820
targeted. And, and I, I sent— this

438
00:27:00,820 --> 00:27:04,420
is true— in 2022, I

439
00:27:04,420 --> 00:27:08,060
sent 33 million emails. 33

440
00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:11,660
million emails? Million. That's called spamming, you know that? Yes. Well,

441
00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:15,340
but that's what had to happen because— and this is why I'm leading into this

442
00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:18,540
idea with how are we going to use data so I don't have to send

443
00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:22,220
33 million emails. Yeah. I only send 3 million, but I hit the people

444
00:27:22,220 --> 00:27:25,910
that really want to see the message. And that's a hard

445
00:27:25,910 --> 00:27:29,350
thing to do. So we, we're, that's what

446
00:27:29,670 --> 00:27:33,270
I think one of our tasks is. There's a gentleman in Napa named Steven

447
00:27:33,270 --> 00:27:36,710
Mock and he's doing a great job with adapting AI to the

448
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:40,110
CRM modules. Yeah. It's, it's Commerce 7, some of the big

449
00:27:40,110 --> 00:27:43,350
platforms to help people understand that

450
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:47,070
pinpoint targeting to get a response. Very smart.

451
00:27:47,070 --> 00:27:50,720
Yes. And so he calls me He consulted me.

452
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,960
All right. And what have you learned from that? What about gifts and what— well,

453
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,480
it's made me think. It's— I love it because it makes me think like you

454
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,920
and I, we kind of have to rotate our access.

455
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,960
Uh-huh. Like you have to teach wineries about these products

456
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,800
here to augment their business and rotate your perspective

457
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,960
on a perspective we're not used to. It's tough.

458
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,960
I mean, that's what I love about— was it in Napa? Was it in California?

459
00:28:17,130 --> 00:28:20,810
Napa, yeah. Yeah, I mean, not— I mean, US used to lead the world

460
00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:24,650
and inspire all of us, and definitely new things were coming from US, and,

461
00:28:24,730 --> 00:28:28,570
and California was absolutely at the peak of it. And I'm, I'm glad to hear

462
00:28:28,570 --> 00:28:32,330
that there's a new thinking there. I want to go back and,

463
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:34,210
and see what you guys are doing. Yeah, I'll introduce you to him. I think

464
00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:36,970
you'd love talking to him. He's a really pretty young man, and he's not a

465
00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:40,130
wine guy. He's a data guy like you. He doesn't have to be. He came

466
00:28:40,130 --> 00:28:43,880
from, uh, you know, no, you don't have to be. No, no, you know what,

467
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,240
you know what, the, the, the first wine unicorn is called

468
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Vivino. You know Vivino? Everybody knows Vivino. That's the app that everybody— what the

469
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,720
guy, I interviewed him, I met him, uh, is a friend. Hey, heinie.

470
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,320
Uh, he's coming from Faroe Islands. This is a small island in the

471
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,120
middle of the Atlantic and there's no wine. He's a Dane

472
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,680
now, he's living in Denmark. There's no wine, uh, culture there,

473
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,940
but there was a need. Yes. Oh, to select the bottle of wine. Then, then

474
00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:12,760
he create Vivino, which is the wine Shazam. Taking a picture, boom, get

475
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,320
an answer. And today, Vivino is the first

476
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,360
wine tech unicorn in the world. They're making more than $300

477
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,040
million revenue per year. Boom. And

478
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,880
he's not taking— coming from the wine, but he was not afraid. He

479
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,680
has no kind of preconceived ideas. He,

480
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,280
he had started from a blank page. I have a problem to solve. Well, something

481
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,650
in my opinion that could have easily failed as fast as

482
00:29:39,650 --> 00:29:42,890
it grew. Oh yeah. So he had to understand the cusp of

483
00:29:43,130 --> 00:29:46,690
data and technology in order to make sure people use it. 'Cause I tell you,

484
00:29:46,690 --> 00:29:49,770
they would walk into my wine shop. Yeah. And they'd look at a wine and

485
00:29:49,770 --> 00:29:53,611
then they'd point Vivino at it. What are they doing? Yeah. And they'd look at

486
00:29:53,611 --> 00:29:56,451
the price and the, and the rating. They knew more on, on the wine than

487
00:29:56,451 --> 00:30:00,050
you did. And I like slapped their hand. Talk to

488
00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:03,820
me. Uh-uh. So how,

489
00:30:03,820 --> 00:30:07,630
how about the future for, for LA Wine Tech? What, what's on your

490
00:30:07,630 --> 00:30:10,750
plans? What's on the horizon? And how fluid does that have to be in order

491
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:14,500
to make sure you're on the cusp? I think,

492
00:30:15,540 --> 00:30:18,379
I think the, the great new things will be AI-based solutions.

493
00:30:19,780 --> 00:30:23,540
Even though, you know, when you're talking about startup world, AI is a

494
00:30:23,540 --> 00:30:26,980
buzzword that everybody needs to have on a speech. Definitely

495
00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:31,260
the benefits, the gains of what AI could bring in terms

496
00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:34,900
of revenue increase, saving time is

497
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:38,460
so massive that there's no, there's no way to ignore it. Yeah,

498
00:30:38,460 --> 00:30:42,220
definitely. So you see, yeah. Quantique computing will come in the

499
00:30:42,220 --> 00:30:46,060
coming years to accelerate that. But the solutions will come from a base

500
00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:49,420
AI technology. We see already that a lot. So

501
00:30:49,660 --> 00:30:53,060
which one is the bet, the one you should bet on to invest? I will

502
00:30:53,060 --> 00:30:56,700
not tell you. Yeah, exactly. I'm talking about 120

503
00:30:56,700 --> 00:30:59,780
companies here. Do your homework, look at that.

504
00:31:00,020 --> 00:31:03,820
Innovation is strong. Yes. It's coming from there. And most of the guys

505
00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:07,540
are coming from outside of the wine world. Isn't that one of the problems

506
00:31:07,540 --> 00:31:11,140
with, with emerging technologies as you saw at Apple?

507
00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:15,780
Um, you, where do you hang your hat on which technology are you gonna hang

508
00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:19,220
your hat on? Because some are gonna fail just like the dot-com thing. Some are

509
00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:22,960
gonna fail. And yeah. Which one are you using? And, and

510
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,940
make sure you vet that out, right? That you— maybe I'm, I, I have a

511
00:31:25,940 --> 00:31:29,530
different opinion on that. Failing, uh, internet, everybody said internet is gonna fail.

512
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,440
Internet now is there everywhere. The way it has transformed in something different because

513
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,160
now it's information, it's a social network. We

514
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,000
don't talk about internet as such, but we're using internet as technology. Remember 2

515
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,600
years ago it was all about blockchain and NFT, right? Big

516
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,800
hype and everybody— what happened to that? What happened to that? Today

517
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,240
in, in the wine world, an NFT is called a, a digital passport.

518
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,960
Yes. So this is the evidence that the wine you are drinking is coming from

519
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,680
that location. As this traceability is a real wine. Yes. It was,

520
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,440
so it's kind of the identity, the digital identity of the, of

521
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,000
the wine. We don't call it NFT any longer. Nobody cares about the technology behind

522
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,480
it. They don't. But do, is, is that functional still? I have not heard much

523
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,120
about that whole pro— you know, the idea is a

524
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,360
winery ships a wine directly to the NFT,

525
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,840
you know, whatever you want to use today. The provenance of that wine is guaranteed

526
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,590
based on the blockchain. Yeah. Okay. And then, but once you take

527
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:29,270
possession of that wine, that, that blockchain's broken. But until you take

528
00:32:29,270 --> 00:32:32,910
possession, uh, you saw— is that functional? Is that really functional?

529
00:32:32,910 --> 00:32:36,550
It's functional for a certain— this user case works for certain

530
00:32:36,550 --> 00:32:40,190
types of wine. The one that the price usually goes up.

531
00:32:40,190 --> 00:32:44,010
Yes. Uh, number one, the one that— yeah,

532
00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:47,470
yeah. We have some manapas, we have some Burgundy wines. Yes. That just, uh,

533
00:32:47,470 --> 00:32:51,250
crazy pricing. The wines that— and I

534
00:32:51,250 --> 00:32:55,050
think for people today to trust that what they have in

535
00:32:55,050 --> 00:32:58,450
their glass is not toxic.

536
00:32:58,930 --> 00:33:02,650
Yes. It is coming from that location. I mean, usually you ask a glass of

537
00:33:02,650 --> 00:33:06,450
red wine, of Chardonnay, of whatever type of grape

538
00:33:06,610 --> 00:33:10,050
in the restaurant, they bring you a glass and there's nothing written on it.

539
00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:12,650
How do you trust that? Yeah, that's a good point. How do you trust this?

540
00:33:12,650 --> 00:33:15,930
I mean, I'm a— You can't trust it. You can't, absolutely not. You can't trust

541
00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:19,410
it. And I know if you're a super champion, you can distinguish

542
00:33:19,670 --> 00:33:23,510
a Chardonnay and a Sauvignon. Right. But not everybody can do that. No, most

543
00:33:23,510 --> 00:33:26,817
of the time. And, and, and you know, why don't we have something, you know,

544
00:33:26,817 --> 00:33:30,430
simple to create better experience? You know, a piece of paper at the bottom, at

545
00:33:30,430 --> 00:33:33,110
the feet of the glass with a QR code,

546
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:37,870
uh, uh, uh, with the name of the wine, just certifying this is— you wanted

547
00:33:37,870 --> 00:33:41,510
a Chardonnay, you have a Chardonnay. Yes. And this is made by Paul. Right.

548
00:33:41,510 --> 00:33:45,310
And, and, and look at, scan the code, go to the vineyards, have

549
00:33:45,310 --> 00:33:48,890
a look at it. Enjoy. That's a really interesting point. Simple paper,

550
00:33:48,890 --> 00:33:52,370
but connected to a huge technology, which could be blockchain or something

551
00:33:52,370 --> 00:33:56,210
else. And technology that people are getting much more used to. Yeah.

552
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:59,930
Like already my business card is archaic because there's no, there's no barcode

553
00:33:59,930 --> 00:34:03,690
on it. I gotta reprint them all over again because, because they're so

554
00:34:03,690 --> 00:34:07,050
used to using it. Yeah. When barcodes came out and I had them on my

555
00:34:07,050 --> 00:34:10,810
bottles of wine as a source of traffic to the website. Yeah. They're

556
00:34:10,810 --> 00:34:14,250
hardly used. And now I was still doing it. I would, I think I'd be

557
00:34:14,250 --> 00:34:17,970
losing market share if I didn't use them because they're so, they're so common today.

558
00:34:18,530 --> 00:34:22,210
And I suppose that's, you know, part of the irony of what we're into is

559
00:34:22,210 --> 00:34:26,010
like, do we, um, I think that's a really good example what

560
00:34:26,010 --> 00:34:29,090
you just said, how a restaurateur could use

561
00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:33,490
the technology to augment sales because most restaurateurs,

562
00:34:34,370 --> 00:34:38,050
their— and then not so good— their sales are— I talked to a guy in

563
00:34:38,050 --> 00:34:41,690
LA, his bottle sales are off 40%. Without the

564
00:34:41,690 --> 00:34:45,370
commensurate cocktail sales, it's just bottle sales are

565
00:34:45,370 --> 00:34:49,144
off. And I said, well, how about— and this is another example, you know,

566
00:34:49,144 --> 00:34:52,690
we're almost done here anyway, so— but I said, how about your

567
00:34:52,690 --> 00:34:56,290
servers? What do they know? He goes, oh, they don't know shit.

568
00:34:56,369 --> 00:35:00,190
Server, you mean people serving the wine? Yeah. I said, well, what do you think

569
00:35:00,190 --> 00:35:03,970
is going to happen? That's, uh, without— that's a

570
00:35:03,970 --> 00:35:07,580
bottleneck, definitely. So how do you connect Uh, uh, first,

571
00:35:07,820 --> 00:35:11,020
the, the, what the person— there's no sommeliers in every restaurant. We know that.

572
00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:14,300
But, and that's maybe a problem because they don't sell wine. So how do we

573
00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:18,020
simplify that? I, I will connect you one of the great sommelier we have

574
00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:21,620
here. We managed to do a work on short, very short selection of

575
00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:25,180
wines, but it is fast rotating. And for each of the

576
00:35:25,180 --> 00:35:28,740
meal you have on the menu, they propose a wine. So the attach rate

577
00:35:28,740 --> 00:35:32,220
is, uh, 1.75%.

578
00:35:32,990 --> 00:35:36,710
Of a glass of wine attached to the— I mean, you, you connect it.

579
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:39,710
You want to be great, uh, uh, T-bone and

580
00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:43,870
fantastic Cabernet from Manapa with it. Works well. So

581
00:35:43,870 --> 00:35:46,430
you don't have to be a sommelier to know that. Someone did the work for

582
00:35:46,430 --> 00:35:49,470
you. It's on the menu and you trust it and you know what, it works,

583
00:35:49,870 --> 00:35:52,790
right? So that's maybe a way to kind of go around. That's a good point.

584
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:56,510
Not the right people trained in the restaurant to do that.

585
00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:59,970
That's one example I saw which was very— that's a very good example. On the

586
00:35:59,970 --> 00:36:03,490
flip side of that, in, um, we were in Palermo last year,

587
00:36:04,850 --> 00:36:08,610
and I was— he was Slavic, either

588
00:36:08,610 --> 00:36:11,650
Serbian or Slavic. It was the best

589
00:36:13,010 --> 00:36:16,450
inspiring wine service I'd ever had. Tell me more.

590
00:36:16,850 --> 00:36:20,690
And I, I pulled him aside. He's a big guy. I gave him a

591
00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:24,290
tip. I said, I want you to know that even the novice

592
00:36:24,290 --> 00:36:27,270
wine drinker would be inspired by watching you

593
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:31,790
relish and— I want to know everything. What's the address? I want to go there.

594
00:36:31,790 --> 00:36:34,350
I want to see that. Yeah, I'll tell you the name of the restaurant. And

595
00:36:34,350 --> 00:36:37,990
I just thought you've, you've really performed because there are the other

596
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:41,710
somms who just do what you say. They, they make it

597
00:36:41,710 --> 00:36:45,390
aristocratic and I know and you don't. And that's a

598
00:36:45,390 --> 00:36:48,470
problem. Come on. But you need to have trained

599
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:53,120
servers to help with the experience

600
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,760
of the, of the food because they're foodies too. You know, this generation, they're

601
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,520
foodies. My kids, you know, the thing about the millennials, and then we'll wrap this

602
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,040
up. The thing about the millennials was they would have rather spent $100 apiece

603
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,200
on sushi than save for that Mustang or that car they

604
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,920
wanted. That's— I saved for the Mustang. I could care less about sushi.

605
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,040
But my grand— my daughters, all three of them would rather go to dinner and

606
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,240
spend a lot of money than worry about saving for their car. It's all about

607
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,120
living things rather than owning things. Right. And this is where we have— with wine,

608
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,880
we have something to play there, right? Because we can bring emotion, experience. Totally.

609
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,160
How to do that? How to— so Xavier Twizat is the, the, the, the name

610
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,000
of the, the sommelier, best sommelier in France and in Europe who, who

611
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,840
made that, uh, simplified kind of recipe. 3 meals, 3 wine attached

612
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,880
to it. Yeah. QR code, boom, you know, you know about it. I like it.

613
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,210
I like it. And that works fantastic. He was the sommelier at the Ritz. Is

614
00:37:43,210 --> 00:37:46,930
the sommelier, uh, chef for Air France, selecting the wines. So he knows about

615
00:37:46,930 --> 00:37:50,570
wine. And he knows how to simplify and simplify. Think about

616
00:37:50,570 --> 00:37:54,010
Apple, but also about simplifying it, hiding the complexity

617
00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:57,610
to make a great experience. So guys, we should learn from Apple more and more.

618
00:37:58,410 --> 00:38:02,170
I, I watched Steven Jobs recently, uh, uh, when he was

619
00:38:02,170 --> 00:38:05,810
talking about the BlackBerry. Yeah. Like nobody wants a

620
00:38:05,810 --> 00:38:09,411
keyboard. Bah, yuck. Right? You know, we're not— we're gonna get rid of the keyboard.

621
00:38:09,411 --> 00:38:13,220
And that must have been shocking to the industry of tech. Anyway. We're out

622
00:38:13,220 --> 00:38:17,020
of time. I hope we solved a couple problems while we're here together, and I'm

623
00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:19,380
looking forward to the rest of the week here. I know you. It's really fun,

624
00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:22,020
and I'm going to send you off some videos of stuff that we're— I'm playing

625
00:38:22,020 --> 00:38:25,780
with, with the AI, so you can see what, what potentially a winery could

626
00:38:25,780 --> 00:38:29,580
do with to, uh, display the experience. So I'll send you

627
00:38:29,580 --> 00:38:32,820
a QR code for the download of the, the white paper. It's in English as

628
00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:36,300
well. Okay, good. Of this AI and wine, you'll see there's at least 12

629
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:38,060
solutions right away available.

630
00:38:45,300 --> 00:38:45,450
Ouais, merci, mais je peux, je peux lire français, c'est pas le problème. On parle

631
00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:48,100
français next time. Thank you. Merci beaucoup. Enchanté. Merci. Thank you very much. Au revoir.