So You Want To Create An Ready To Drink Cocktail. Have A Listen To Rob and Leslie Levy.

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The bar has been set very low. So people's

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expectations for a you tell them a bottle of

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cocktail or can cocktail, whatever, they expect it to not be great.

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And so when they're surprised when they try it and they're surprised that

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it's good, that's what we hope will bring them back to bite

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again. Sit back and grab a glass. It's

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Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio in beautiful

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Southern California today about to have a conversation with Robin

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Leslie Levy. Yes, got that right.

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Why do I doubt myself? As soon as I start introductions

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in just a moment. I just got back from our

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editor the episode for Song of America,

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which is the Agogenian family, starting with an Armenian Los

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Angeles racing history family. Incredible conversation. Look

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for that to come out soon. But not why we're here. Here to have a

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conversation with Rob and Leslie. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Thank you.

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It's good to see you guys in a professional environment. We always have dinner

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or whatever. That's fun. You

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guys are founders of the Ready to Drink Cocktail.

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And for the listeners, RTD's, which is quite a

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acronym these days, Knox and Dobson.

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We're going to get on that subject in a minute. In fact, I see you've

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got like, how many more do you have now? We have six now and

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soon we'll have seven. Wow. Yeah. When we first started, two or

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three. Yeah. Yeah. We originally launched with four, but

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yeah, it's beginning to grow and we're seeing what, what takes and what doesn't

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and people like. And we're going to go back a little further. Not

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like when you met and all that kind of stupid stuff.

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Because we're. Going to talk about restaurateur

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because you guys were the proprietors of the very famous

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restaurant, an iconic restaurant in less in this Pasadena called the

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Raymond. We were. And I think where this idea burgeoned

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from. But talk about the restaurant business. How long were you doing that? 18

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years. Yeah. That's long enough to pull your hair. Out, I would say. 18

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long years. Yeah. Yeah, you all have your hair. So

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that's good. A little bit. Not, not much more in

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the first place, you know, we, we never, never intended

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to own a restaurant. We were buying and selling real estate

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and the. We knew the owner

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of the Raymond. We were fixing up a building across the street and

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having lunch there and asked her if she would sell an apartment building she

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owned behind the restaurant. And initially she

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said no. And we just, you know, we kept Going in, she finally said, you

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know what? I'm ready to retire here. If you'll buy the restaurant, I'll sell you

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the building. Oh, wow. And so we had a good friend

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who was a chef, and

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this was her dream. I mean, this was like buying Chez Panisse in

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Pasadena, which was great. And so she agreed

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that she would take the restaurant. We had no interest in the restaurant at all.

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And we went into escrow, and two weeks before closing, her

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investors pulled out and we owned a restaurant. Wow. I can tell

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you for sure that is not the way you want to learn the restaurant business.

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It's a crash course, that's for sure. Did you go right into the kitchen or

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what did you do? I mean, like. No, we. I mean, our

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initial thought was we got to sell this thing before we go

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bankrupt or crazy. And we

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had to hire a chef. Had to hire a chef because she was the chef.

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And that's the. That is a fun experience. It was. Yep,

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yep. Chefs, as you may know, can be

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temperamental. Yes. The kitchen was

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50 years old. The building was falling down. That part we

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knew how to do, but the rest of it we didn't. And fortunately, we

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had enough good friends from around town that were in

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the business that kind of kept us from going off the rails. And

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we. One thing led to another, and

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18 years later, we were so. But it was fun. Was. You said

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the Chez Panisse. And for the. For the listeners, Jezebel's is a famed restaurant in

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the Berkeley area owned by Alice Waters, who probably

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single handedly changed the direction of food in America. But that's

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what you felt like this place was at the time. The reputation of Raymond

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Craftsman Cottage. Yeah, right. It was really cool,

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1800s, but no one steps into the restaurant business like, you

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know, not knowing anything. Right. And honestly, you know, if it

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weren't the Raymond, we would. I don't think we

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would have stood a chance. I think we, you know, we. We lucked out in

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that it already had a history. Yeah, right. And the former owner, the

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founder of the Raymond, she came up with

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Julia Child. Really. So they were. They were

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compatriots. They were local. Julia Child was from Pasadena

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and. Or lived in Pasadena. And so there was. There

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was a lot of history. A very formal French restaurant when we took it over.

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White tablecloths, very formal. And

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what we found is that when you're going to a formal restaurant, you go about

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once a year for your birthday or your anniversary. So we wanted

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to make it more casual so that people would come Every day.

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So it kind of became kind of like the cheers of Pasadena.

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Yeah. I mean, were you guys there every day in the beginning?

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We were here a lot, Leslie. More than me. You know, I had my

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business and. But the, the goal

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was to make it. Instead of wearing a suit, you're wearing jeans

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and it was okay to come in shorts and hang out. And you know,

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that, that was. The goal was to make it more of a

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neighborhood hangout where you would. Drop by more often.

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Yeah. Can you even, you know, can you even run a restaurant

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without being there? I mean, is that, is a restaurant a non proprietor type? Unless

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it's corporate America, like where, you know, you know, Black Angus or something or,

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you know, Olive Garden. But if you're running a restaurant like that, that's specific. And

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then we'll get into this, this idea now. But is that even possible to do

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without being there every day? Practically? I was there

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every day, but just. Not, you know, you weren't waiting tables.

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I wasn't waiting tables. But you know, we, we wined and dined people

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there. We had our friends there. We were always entertaining there.

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It was like having people come over to your. It's like having a party every

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day. Would you, would you trade that? I mean, like,

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you're looking at the wine shop picture right there. My dad, my dad acquired that

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wine shop because it was sort of an opposite thing. He's. I won't buy your

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pharmacy unless you sell me the wine shop with it. Sort of the opposite. But

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thank goodness that's what happened. My career came from this insistence. And

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so here you are now, you know, in the marketplace with, with Knox and

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Dobson rtd. Would you trade now the experience as a restaurant tour for

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anything to get here? I don't think so. I mean, I think

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it really helped us, like

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partnership with the community. We've done a lot of

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events. We've had events, political

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events, fundraisers, all kinds of things at

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the restaurant, which we never would have been able to do if we weren't involved

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in the restaurant. We've met amazing people. I

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mean, it's been a real eye

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opening experience. You know, operating a restaurant, not

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so much fun. But the people and the social aspect of

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it was phenomenal. But it's put you on this treadmill right here.

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You wouldn't possibly be ready to drink cocktails without the restaurant. Not at

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all. In fact, as you may recall,

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in 2010, and this is what launched

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us in this direction. We knew

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early on that we had to build a bar. We had a bar but it

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wasn't really a bar. It was more of a service bar. And

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they were doing virtually no business in the bar, really.

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$1,500 a month. Would that formula even remotely work

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today without the margins in a liquor? Not a chance. And

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so we knew we had to build a bar. We didn't know how. We didn't

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know what it should look like or feel like. And Leslie, by

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chance, through a friend, met some people

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who had built all the crazy

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successful craft cocktail bars downtown.

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And she came back and, you know, said, we've got the

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idea. And so I went with them on this little bar

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crawl, and together we just said, well, this is it. And just by

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chance, by luck, it happened to be at

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the very beginning of the craft cocktail craze,

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and. And even more lucky, we were the only

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ones to do it outside of downtown LA. So we were

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the first in the St. Gabriel Valley, and it made

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us famous. You know, it wasn't a big space, so

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actually, probably. That probably lent to some of the success, like, well, it's very small.

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You can't just walk in and expect to get buffalo wings here. You're gonna have

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to time this and make it work. And

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it created this whole vibe in the community. And we

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had regulars who were there. You all the time,

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and just. But it was a really wonderful

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experience. And at that time,

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bottled cocktails really didn't exist. Yeah, right. It's not that

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long ago. No. This whole phenomenon just kind of happened in the

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last 10 years. And so we were at the very

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beginning. We just couldn't get it right

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soon enough. And then Covid hit. Covid

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hit our bottles. What was it called? 18.

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1886. 1886. The year I. I knew about it, but I

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had. I'd only been there a couple of times, but it was. How old was

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that bar when you sold the restaurant? We built it in

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2010. Really? It's that young? Yeah, I'm gonna say it's that

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young. Yeah. And, you know, before that, it was. It truly was just

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a service bar. It was just. There was nothing there. It was part

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of the dining room. And so

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it kind of took on a life of its own and became

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its own special little gem. And,

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I mean, there were people that would come to the bar

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that didn't realize we had a restaurant. Now, see, this is

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really interesting because I think in most formulas of most restaurants that

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I've experienced through all my career doing this, doing the liquor and wine

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thing is that if the bar, if you have to go through the Restaurant to

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get to the bar. They're not generally that successful. People don't want to have to

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like interrupt dinner, walk through a path and get to a bar.

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And I've seen it fail many times in many different places. But here you

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kind of had to do that. Right. To get. We had a separate entrance for

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the bar. Oh, you did. Okay. But most people came right through the front door.

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And you know, most of our seating was on the patio anyway. Yeah.

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So the main dining room was actually pretty small. Yeah.

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So what would craft cocktail mean when you. When you were out

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bar crawling in la. And I remember

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that, I remember when this all started. But what would you

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consider what was considered a craft cocktail? Fresh ingredients.

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Yeah, fresh ingredients. Everything was made in front of you

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right there. You know, you spent five minutes watching

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the guy make the fancy. So whether it was a six to one gin

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martini or whether it was a, you know, a muddled, you

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know, mango margarita, you. You watched

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it. You watched that take time and money and energy to do it. Did it,

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did. And, and part of what led us down

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this path was we had days at the restaurant

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on a busy weekend when people were waiting 20, 20, 30 minutes

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for a drink because every drink was so labor

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intensive. Right. We started batching our cocktails

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and so we could get our most popular

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cocktails into the hands of customers quickly.

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And that's where this all kind of came from. So

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now let's jump to Knox. Knox and Dobs.

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It's. Yeah, there are. There were surprise. Some big

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houses that started this idea of a ready to drink cocktail. I mean, I think

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there were other types of canned and bottled beverages.

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Club canned cocktail. Yeah. Right. That was it that you could buy. My dad even

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had them at the store at some point in time, but

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cans. Yeah, most of them had a lot of

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sugar in them and other

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ingredients. And we just wanted to do it exactly the

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way you would have a cocktail at a bar. Right. And that's

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what took us so long to figure this out, is because

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we spent all this time with flavorists and

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food scientists and all these different

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secret, fancy methods of trying to make it taste like

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a cocktail, when in the end we

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wanted to make a real cocktail, just a cocktail. And so

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it took some time. That's an interesting proposition because my niece,

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who's coming today, you might meet her on your way out, is. Had started a

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brand of salad dressing I think we might have spoken about a little bit and

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that she had the same experience. You know, here's my salad dressing. And

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then now we've got to figure out a way to put it in a package.

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And the immediate response is, let's get a food scientist on

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board and start manipulating the things that we have in our quivers

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to make these concoctions. When the reality is, you know, we just

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want gin and vermouth in there. Right? That's right, Yes. I

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mean, the trick is when you're making a thousand gallons, the

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recipe is different than when you're making one. So. Okay,

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that, so is that, that a scale issue? Like if I

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took, I, I make my martinis sometimes eight to one,

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six to one, something like that. My dad prefers, you know, six to one. He's

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00:14:01,874 --> 00:14:05,602
an English guy. You know, he grew up in an English environment. So

229
00:14:05,786 --> 00:14:09,010
if I was to make 20 gallons of it, I wouldn't do 6 to 1.

230
00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:12,656
At that point, there's a balancing act. Yeah,

231
00:14:12,768 --> 00:14:16,240
the, the flavors either become too,

232
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,016
too intense or too diminished. Yeah. You have to

233
00:14:20,088 --> 00:14:23,840
balance it out and adjust your, your recipe to make up. For that

234
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,408
martini is a tricky one because everybody likes their martini just

235
00:14:27,464 --> 00:14:31,120
slightly different. So we're, we're, we're having fun

236
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,900
with, with pleasing people that love a gin martini.

237
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,860
Ours is not a bike martini. So, so right there

238
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,060
we have our crowd of gin connoisseurs.

239
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,232
Well, omg, go to Paris and try to order a dry martini and you just

240
00:14:47,256 --> 00:14:51,072
get the range of what you taste from one bar to the other is

241
00:14:51,096 --> 00:14:54,340
just unbelievable. It's like, no, I just want a little martini.

242
00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,352
When you walked in and I was telling you about Connor, I had both my

243
00:15:00,376 --> 00:15:03,982
son in laws out when he first gave me some samples. And I tasted

244
00:15:04,056 --> 00:15:07,698
your gin martini against mine, which I consider myself an expert in this field thanks

245
00:15:07,714 --> 00:15:11,122
to my father, Manhattan's as well. I've done a lot of experimenting with

246
00:15:11,146 --> 00:15:14,590
Manhattan's and man, they were so close.

247
00:15:14,970 --> 00:15:17,922
I mean, I will say that the fresh one made, I made right then was

248
00:15:17,946 --> 00:15:21,110
maybe 3%, you know, more interesting.

249
00:15:21,610 --> 00:15:25,026
You mean ours was. Right, Ours was just for the show? Yes,

250
00:15:25,058 --> 00:15:28,430
yes. So

251
00:15:29,370 --> 00:15:33,106
that process then you're saying that you recanted from that process,

252
00:15:33,258 --> 00:15:37,074
you stepped away from the food scientists and you went a different direction? Is that

253
00:15:37,082 --> 00:15:40,530
what happened? We did, we, you know, we kind of came full circle and said

254
00:15:40,570 --> 00:15:43,634
if we're going to make a really, a real mark, a real

255
00:15:43,722 --> 00:15:47,330
cocktail and make it taste like what

256
00:15:47,370 --> 00:15:50,786
we serve in the bar, we have to serve what we serve in the bar.

257
00:15:50,858 --> 00:15:54,706
Right. And so. Which is aged spirits. Yeah. We ended

258
00:15:54,738 --> 00:15:58,030
up going to distillers and convincing them to sell us

259
00:15:58,410 --> 00:16:02,030
whiskey in the barrel that we then aged two to four years,

260
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,248
I had to convince Angostura Bitters to sell

261
00:16:06,304 --> 00:16:10,120
to us because who are we? Yeah, right. In bulk. Because you

262
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,752
can't buy those little tiny bottles. And I can see Leslie going

263
00:16:13,776 --> 00:16:17,340
there, that doesn't work. Yeah.

264
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,200
So there's so many parts to

265
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,944
the puzzle that required extra work

266
00:16:26,032 --> 00:16:29,710
to make this all come together. Okay, so

267
00:16:30,010 --> 00:16:33,650
back it up a step. So here you guys are having success with 1886

268
00:16:33,690 --> 00:16:37,330
and there's people coming in. Maybe somebody said, hey, you ought to bottle these things,

269
00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:40,514
or maybe you didn't, maybe you did on your own. But there's a. That's a

270
00:16:40,522 --> 00:16:43,630
huge leap from what you're doing today.

271
00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:48,098
Packaging design, TB approval. Beside, we just talked

272
00:16:48,114 --> 00:16:51,570
about formulation. I mean, there's a lot of moving parts. When you

273
00:16:51,610 --> 00:16:55,102
decide as two restaurateurs to take something to the market

274
00:16:55,226 --> 00:16:58,998
and get it on a shelf, that's a whole different part of the business

275
00:16:59,054 --> 00:17:02,838
that possibly we were aware of. Yes, we're

276
00:17:02,854 --> 00:17:06,210
more aware of it now and we've discussed this before, but

277
00:17:07,070 --> 00:17:10,758
so what was the thought process in how this was would feel

278
00:17:10,814 --> 00:17:14,374
to the consumer? Like you guys were sat at dinner table

279
00:17:14,502 --> 00:17:17,974
boring each other to death with details about this product. That was a

280
00:17:17,982 --> 00:17:19,250
joke. And

281
00:17:22,270 --> 00:17:25,330
I've been through these same conversations, by the way, many times.

282
00:17:26,890 --> 00:17:30,690
But you're discussing what this thing should feel like, and it's not High

283
00:17:30,730 --> 00:17:34,562
Noon. I mean, that stuff looks like crap and it doesn't taste much

284
00:17:34,586 --> 00:17:38,194
better. So how did you come around?

285
00:17:38,282 --> 00:17:41,954
This idea of a name like Knox and Dobson was very English sounding. The

286
00:17:42,122 --> 00:17:45,634
octagonal, or not octagonal, but the bottle shape, the color,

287
00:17:45,682 --> 00:17:49,026
everything takes a decision. It's kind of like building a house. You got to know

288
00:17:49,098 --> 00:17:52,242
where every plug's gonna go and every light switch. That's true. Well, I will say

289
00:17:52,266 --> 00:17:55,954
that one thing we learned from the restaurant business is people eat with their eyes

290
00:17:56,002 --> 00:17:59,848
first. And so we wanted to make a product that

291
00:17:59,904 --> 00:18:03,672
looked like quality. And so that's where

292
00:18:03,696 --> 00:18:07,320
we came up with the hex shaped bottle. By

293
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,856
chance, our partner is a

294
00:18:11,008 --> 00:18:14,808
artist by trade, graphic artist, and he helped

295
00:18:14,824 --> 00:18:18,600
us design the label and the bottle. And you know, there's some

296
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,136
science in the color of the bottle. It's a deep purple, which

297
00:18:22,208 --> 00:18:25,320
protects what's in the bottle. So, you know, the old

298
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,042
apothecary bottles from back in the day protected what

299
00:18:29,066 --> 00:18:32,770
was inside. And so there's that. And so

300
00:18:32,810 --> 00:18:36,430
we started there and you know, we knew, we knew we had a good

301
00:18:36,810 --> 00:18:40,310
cocktail. We knew how to make a good cocktail.

302
00:18:41,690 --> 00:18:45,346
Now translating that to the market and

303
00:18:45,418 --> 00:18:49,186
making people see that this looks

304
00:18:49,218 --> 00:18:52,978
really good. So maybe I should try it. It's not, you know,

305
00:18:53,034 --> 00:18:56,642
High Noon. It's not, you know, a can on the shelf in the sea of

306
00:18:56,666 --> 00:19:00,322
cans on the shelf. Isn't that interesting, though. You would think that corporate America,

307
00:19:00,386 --> 00:19:03,630
these giant organizations that have these boardrooms full of people

308
00:19:04,730 --> 00:19:08,322
would have a similar thought process at some points, in other words. Or they're just

309
00:19:08,346 --> 00:19:10,354
like, well, we got to get the thing out as cheap as we can get

310
00:19:10,362 --> 00:19:13,778
it, and we're going to use the worst materials that we can find, and we're

311
00:19:13,794 --> 00:19:17,362
just going to get on the shelf and take our market share to, you

312
00:19:17,386 --> 00:19:20,350
know, rely on our market share to get these things out there.

313
00:19:21,010 --> 00:19:24,698
That is generally the thought process is they, they use

314
00:19:24,754 --> 00:19:28,522
their clout and inexpensive

315
00:19:28,586 --> 00:19:32,070
ingredients. Yeah, they, they, they.

316
00:19:33,650 --> 00:19:37,482
The bar has been set very low. So people's

317
00:19:37,546 --> 00:19:41,226
expectations for a. You tell them a bottle,

318
00:19:41,258 --> 00:19:44,950
cocktail or canned cocktail, whatever, they expect it to not be great.

319
00:19:45,330 --> 00:19:49,162
And so when they're surprised when they try it and they're surprised that

320
00:19:49,186 --> 00:19:52,806
it's good, that's what we hope will bring them back to bite

321
00:19:52,838 --> 00:19:56,678
again. It's kind of interesting. Jog. They thought, which doesn't

322
00:19:56,694 --> 00:20:00,454
happen very often, that in

323
00:20:00,462 --> 00:20:03,430
the wine trade, the stuff on the shelf that we walk in and we see

324
00:20:03,470 --> 00:20:07,302
the apothecary reds. Apothecary reds, and we see the Josh's and we

325
00:20:07,326 --> 00:20:10,982
see all the same stuff at all the markets. It's annoying, but it's a very

326
00:20:11,006 --> 00:20:14,758
important part of the industry to get people that otherwise wouldn't

327
00:20:14,774 --> 00:20:18,518
drink wine to start trying wine. They're sweeter, they taste. You know, they're not

328
00:20:18,574 --> 00:20:22,358
very complex. And it sounds like maybe that's

329
00:20:22,454 --> 00:20:26,262
the segmentation that's happening maybe in your trade that. Yeah, the

330
00:20:26,286 --> 00:20:29,730
High Noons and all the other canned beverages that are coming out

331
00:20:31,470 --> 00:20:35,286
aren't really necessary. Competition for a craft cocktail

332
00:20:35,318 --> 00:20:38,370
in a bottle, is that segmented yet?

333
00:20:39,230 --> 00:20:42,980
Not as much as we would hope. Yeah, it's.

334
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,700
People are kind of grabbing whatever's easiest. Yeah.

335
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,904
If you look at the majority of cocktails on the shelf,

336
00:20:52,032 --> 00:20:55,440
they're very low abv. So less

337
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,264
alcohol, more profit margin. They usually

338
00:20:59,312 --> 00:21:02,220
make up for it with flavorings and sugar and all of that,

339
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,880
but you can drink a few of them. It's like drinking a beer. It's very,

340
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,646
very low alcohol. These are serious

341
00:21:10,678 --> 00:21:14,438
cocktails. They're exactly what you get in the bar. Yeah. So it's, it's,

342
00:21:14,614 --> 00:21:18,358
you know, you're not going to down three or four of these. It's it's

343
00:21:18,374 --> 00:21:21,110
almost the first thing I look at. Just maybe because I'm in the industry, when

344
00:21:21,150 --> 00:21:24,662
somebody brings something to the table that's one of these, I immediately go to the

345
00:21:24,686 --> 00:21:28,342
alcohol by volume. I look at that, right. And I realize I can

346
00:21:28,366 --> 00:21:32,006
tell it by looking at it. What kind of canned

347
00:21:32,038 --> 00:21:35,430
cocktail this is, Is it real or fake? If it's. If it's a low

348
00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:38,778
alcohol cocktail, then it

349
00:21:38,914 --> 00:21:42,538
that they've made the decision to make a cocktail that

350
00:21:42,674 --> 00:21:46,234
tastes like a cocktail. Yeah. Right. But it's not a real cocktail,

351
00:21:46,362 --> 00:21:49,178
you know, so it's. So you got to the point where you've got this bottle,

352
00:21:49,194 --> 00:21:52,682
I got the design, which is great. The name. Where'd the name come

353
00:21:52,706 --> 00:21:55,470
from? Corner I grew up on in Chicago.

354
00:21:56,290 --> 00:21:59,994
Come on. Knox and Dobson. That's

355
00:22:00,042 --> 00:22:03,514
great. We had a group of kids that hung out

356
00:22:03,602 --> 00:22:07,272
literally every day on this corner. There was a park right

357
00:22:07,296 --> 00:22:11,000
there. That is so clever. Yeah, well, you know, we went round and round

358
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,712
with names. I mean, we were writing down names

359
00:22:14,776 --> 00:22:17,380
that nobody could agree on. And

360
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,560
one day I just threw this out and we just kept coming back to it.

361
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,112
Yeah, it just sounds like an old. Pub and yeah, it's beautiful. It's very

362
00:22:25,136 --> 00:22:28,312
English sounding. Yeah. And the packaging too. Very old school.

363
00:22:28,416 --> 00:22:32,224
Yeah, I've been through that 25 times,

364
00:22:32,352 --> 00:22:35,968
naming wine brands and I get the same reaction. And I'd come up with something

365
00:22:36,024 --> 00:22:39,664
wacky because that's all that wasn't taken. Because Oak

366
00:22:39,712 --> 00:22:42,940
everything and bridge everything and Valley, this was all taken.

367
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,576
There are actually books on the history of street names

368
00:22:46,768 --> 00:22:50,352
and we looked through them and we were really hoping that these would have

369
00:22:50,376 --> 00:22:53,984
some value. Civil War general or something. Turned out to

370
00:22:53,992 --> 00:22:57,792
be so much banker and a builder, it was

371
00:22:57,896 --> 00:23:01,232
nothing ex. Con, which would

372
00:23:01,256 --> 00:23:04,956
be Chicago. It wouldn't be best. So

373
00:23:05,108 --> 00:23:08,620
I want to stop right there. Timeline. Now, you

374
00:23:08,660 --> 00:23:12,348
decided all this and you still haven't taken it to market yet,

375
00:23:12,404 --> 00:23:16,044
but you think you've got a formula. Had anything surprised you up

376
00:23:16,052 --> 00:23:19,800
until that point, like, why do we get into this? Or

377
00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:24,060
can't wait to get this thing going because this is so much fun. Well,

378
00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:28,012
we had gone so far down the road with this. It was sort of a

379
00:23:28,036 --> 00:23:31,800
decision of, are we going to do this or are we not? And

380
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:36,762
we had just put so much time and effort into. Into it. We just, it

381
00:23:36,786 --> 00:23:40,058
was a natural. We just, we had to do it. And

382
00:23:40,114 --> 00:23:43,658
so. But literally every,

383
00:23:43,794 --> 00:23:47,510
every turn has been an education. I mean,

384
00:23:48,210 --> 00:23:51,642
every, like you said, the ttb. Oh, you need an approval for

385
00:23:51,666 --> 00:23:54,270
that. Oh, you need an approval for the label

386
00:23:55,090 --> 00:23:58,754
or the formulation or the. Yeah, we're working on a

387
00:23:58,762 --> 00:24:02,082
margarita. Working on that right now. So we need very close. What's the

388
00:24:02,106 --> 00:24:05,586
problem? There's no problem. It's just time consuming. We're

389
00:24:05,618 --> 00:24:09,202
importing 100% blue agave tequila. Oh, tequila. Yeah.

390
00:24:09,346 --> 00:24:12,898
And yeah, that's apparently a headache giant.

391
00:24:12,994 --> 00:24:16,674
If you want it to be actual tequila. Right? Yeah. So you can buy

392
00:24:16,682 --> 00:24:20,050
truckloads of what they call mixto, which is, you know, not really

393
00:24:20,090 --> 00:24:23,682
tequila. We wanted to do the real thing just like the rest of

394
00:24:23,706 --> 00:24:27,400
these. But it's taken us two years to get through the. Very

395
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,048
close. I've heard that. But when you taste.

396
00:24:31,144 --> 00:24:34,664
Where were we? At the Gardens. One of the. One of the

397
00:24:34,672 --> 00:24:38,424
disconsol gardens. And they had a. Halfway through they had this little hut and you

398
00:24:38,432 --> 00:24:41,464
could get a shot of tequila and it was Cuervo and it was

399
00:24:41,472 --> 00:24:44,664
undrinkable. I mean, we've gotten so used to having. I mean, that's the right thing

400
00:24:44,672 --> 00:24:48,104
to do is get the right stuff. Because I don't think anybody accepts

401
00:24:48,152 --> 00:24:51,832
those brands anymore as far as legitimate tastes.

402
00:24:51,896 --> 00:24:54,820
We're actually really excited. We're going to be importing a.

403
00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:59,310
A family owned. Are you elevating it as well? We

404
00:24:59,350 --> 00:25:02,878
are. They've never been available in the United States and

405
00:25:03,014 --> 00:25:05,902
so we're bringing them in for the first time and we're gonna, you know, co

406
00:25:05,926 --> 00:25:09,598
brand with them and. Wow, that's great. Excited about it. Okay, so you jumped

407
00:25:09,614 --> 00:25:13,294
in two feet. You're. This is going. We got this cool bottle. We got

408
00:25:13,302 --> 00:25:16,210
this thing and you get it in the bottle.

409
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:21,210
Did you say, oh, crap, what do you do now?

410
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:25,478
Or you had relationships in the liquor business

411
00:25:25,534 --> 00:25:29,334
because of the bar. You had some kind of guidepost that was. We had

412
00:25:29,342 --> 00:25:33,078
a lot of people that wanted to see us be successful in this. So

413
00:25:33,134 --> 00:25:36,822
we have a lot of support behind us, just people that want us to do

414
00:25:36,846 --> 00:25:40,330
well in this. So we're feeling appreciating

415
00:25:41,150 --> 00:25:44,374
where we are. I mean, we're like a little company

416
00:25:44,462 --> 00:25:48,182
and we're already now in Bristol Farms. But you

417
00:25:48,206 --> 00:25:52,022
are cutting new teeth here. I mean, you're cutting new teeth for

418
00:25:52,046 --> 00:25:55,712
yourself and you're cutting your teeth for a market segment that really hadn't been

419
00:25:55,736 --> 00:25:59,568
tapped that way. At least a premium cocktail. And so all those things

420
00:25:59,624 --> 00:26:02,740
in our industry take a little bit of extra

421
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,780
persistence and perseverance. It has been

422
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,460
a challenge, no doubt, because

423
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,500
the bar has been set low and people do expect

424
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,556
less convincing retailers that there's

425
00:26:19,588 --> 00:26:23,124
a market for premium has been. That's an Interesting

426
00:26:23,172 --> 00:26:26,148
point. Same with wine. It's like, can we sell that

427
00:26:26,204 --> 00:26:29,400
$150 bottle of wine on our shelves

428
00:26:29,980 --> 00:26:33,812
when everybody's looking for the $20 bottle of wine? So it's the

429
00:26:33,836 --> 00:26:37,572
same thing here. It's been a, you know, when they try it, they love

430
00:26:37,596 --> 00:26:41,172
it. But now then they have to make that extra decision of can we sell

431
00:26:41,196 --> 00:26:45,012
it? You know, so I'm going to lay the landscape for the listeners a little

432
00:26:45,036 --> 00:26:48,286
bit. You have a product like this, whether it's wine or ready to drink cocktail

433
00:26:48,318 --> 00:26:51,614
or white claw or whatever you're trying to sell. In the beverage world, the competition

434
00:26:51,662 --> 00:26:55,390
is extremely high. The shelf space is limited and the budgets are

435
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:59,166
down. And, and not only that, like if you ever been to Arthur J

436
00:26:59,238 --> 00:27:03,054
in the restaurant in Manhattan Beach Steakhouse?

437
00:27:03,102 --> 00:27:06,910
No. No. Part of that Simsies group. Anyway, they have an incredible list which

438
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:10,398
you don't see wine lists like this anymore. Yeah. Why?

439
00:27:10,454 --> 00:27:14,190
Because. Well, because if you have 75, and I guess there were 75

440
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:18,042
vendors for this one list, there's actually like a hundred. Well, that's a

441
00:27:18,066 --> 00:27:21,882
hundred different checks you've got to write a hundred different salespeople. Number of

442
00:27:21,906 --> 00:27:25,130
salespeople, let's say 20. But you've got to have just

443
00:27:25,170 --> 00:27:28,826
exponentially grows the amount of work it takes to put something on the shelf. Yeah.

444
00:27:28,858 --> 00:27:32,522
And I'm going to assume that when you walk into a retailer or a

445
00:27:32,546 --> 00:27:35,674
restaurant or whatever you're trying to sell and say, look, I've got this product and

446
00:27:35,682 --> 00:27:39,530
you're going to. Every objection in the world, at least the least of

447
00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:43,232
which now is the quality of the product. This is

448
00:27:43,256 --> 00:27:46,100
really good. But I don't want a new vendor.

449
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,928
At some of the hotels we're at, the bartenders actually

450
00:27:50,984 --> 00:27:54,304
want to taste it. And some of them have actually liked

451
00:27:54,352 --> 00:27:58,112
ours better than what they actually make. So

452
00:27:58,136 --> 00:28:01,952
that's kind of fun when that happens. That's really great. Yeah. And

453
00:28:01,976 --> 00:28:05,728
that has been a good market for us. You think about, you check

454
00:28:05,744 --> 00:28:09,452
into a Hotel, it's 10 o'clock at night, you'd like a cocktail.

455
00:28:09,516 --> 00:28:13,260
Either the bar is closed or room service comes 30

456
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:17,020
minutes later with a watered down mess. Or they can bring a bottle, has

457
00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:20,716
two cocktails and a bucket of ice and it's actually good. Yeah.

458
00:28:20,748 --> 00:28:24,588
Right. And so we're getting some traction there and people are starting

459
00:28:24,604 --> 00:28:27,884
to. It's a great service actually. Yeah. Yeah. Because I never want to open the

460
00:28:27,892 --> 00:28:31,436
bottle of wine that's there. It's too much and it's probably not that good.

461
00:28:31,508 --> 00:28:35,292
Yeah. Or there's you know, a half bottle of tequila and what

462
00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:37,880
am I going to do with the rest of it? And you're staying one night

463
00:28:38,470 --> 00:28:42,014
and they're expensive. They're expensive. Okay, so you've got it in the bottle and you're.

464
00:28:42,062 --> 00:28:45,150
You started brainstorming who might carry this. And for the

465
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:48,958
listeners, you know, you. There's two pieces of this business,

466
00:28:49,014 --> 00:28:51,982
and it wasn't always like this. You could rely on a

467
00:28:52,006 --> 00:28:55,790
distributor to sell the brand that create

468
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:58,862
the brand. And that happened in the old days a lot. You know, you'd hand

469
00:28:58,886 --> 00:29:02,542
it off to somebody as hungry and aggressive and they would

470
00:29:02,566 --> 00:29:06,408
go build this brand for you. And then the problem in most

471
00:29:06,464 --> 00:29:10,232
cases is there's no allegiance in our industry. So once they built the

472
00:29:10,256 --> 00:29:12,792
brand, if you thought you wanted to go to a bigger house, you would just

473
00:29:12,816 --> 00:29:16,328
pull it from the people that made it for you. Well, that doesn't happen anymore.

474
00:29:16,504 --> 00:29:20,296
You have to build your own brand, as with my niece and her salad

475
00:29:20,328 --> 00:29:24,040
dressing, that no one's going to just shop it for you. So was

476
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,848
that a surprise? That part of it? It was. We

477
00:29:27,904 --> 00:29:29,500
went into this thinking

478
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:35,988
that if you gave a distributor a great

479
00:29:36,044 --> 00:29:39,860
product, that they would see the value in that

480
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:42,480
and simply take it and run with it, right?

481
00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:49,860
Negative, negative. So literally

482
00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:53,092
every sale that we've made in this company has been us

483
00:29:53,276 --> 00:29:57,120
and it. And I guess short of you

484
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,880
having to put it, in fact, I have very close friends and just

485
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,528
got their daughter a nice internship in Bordeaux, France.

486
00:30:04,704 --> 00:30:08,416
She's an enology student, but she got interested in wine

487
00:30:08,448 --> 00:30:12,128
because they built this little vineyard in their house in the valley and they created

488
00:30:12,144 --> 00:30:15,872
the wine. They had a co op come pick it and make the wine. Well,

489
00:30:15,896 --> 00:30:19,152
the other day he pulled up here to pick something up. He's an architect by

490
00:30:19,176 --> 00:30:22,914
trade, and there's six cases of wine in his trunk. I go, what are you

491
00:30:22,922 --> 00:30:26,706
doing? He goes, making a delivery. And so I guess your option

492
00:30:26,738 --> 00:30:30,450
would have been go shop it yourself. You have the licensing, go

493
00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:33,874
pour these things, and then when they order 10 cases, you got to put it

494
00:30:33,882 --> 00:30:37,682
in your truck and drive it over there. Right. So really now your supplier

495
00:30:37,826 --> 00:30:41,442
is. Your distributor is doing that part logistical part for

496
00:30:41,466 --> 00:30:45,202
you. Your job is to make it go to the point of

497
00:30:45,226 --> 00:30:49,032
purchase locations and pour it and then they'll make sure it gets to

498
00:30:49,056 --> 00:30:52,712
the location. Yeah. Build and collect it and all that. The one thing I

499
00:30:52,736 --> 00:30:55,608
will say is being with a large

500
00:30:55,664 --> 00:30:59,128
distributor, it does

501
00:30:59,184 --> 00:31:02,888
open doors. Yes. So when I'm having a

502
00:31:02,944 --> 00:31:06,248
conversation with whatever Marriott

503
00:31:06,344 --> 00:31:09,460
corporate or, you know, a

504
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,240
retail chain or you Know, whatever. And I tell

505
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,120
them the name of our distributor, they'll say,

506
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,940
okay, you know, you're legitimate and

507
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,600
come talk to us. Good point. When we were first starting out,

508
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,264
we were with just a boutique, you know, distributor that

509
00:31:29,352 --> 00:31:33,056
new brands start with. And there were many

510
00:31:33,128 --> 00:31:36,896
occasions when we had a conversation with a hotel or somebody,

511
00:31:37,008 --> 00:31:40,368
and they say, well, when you get with one of the majors,

512
00:31:40,464 --> 00:31:43,980
then call us, because we don't deal with these

513
00:31:44,020 --> 00:31:47,484
guys, you know, so It's a catch

514
00:31:47,532 --> 00:31:51,084
22. It's a. You know, what I made is that

515
00:31:51,172 --> 00:31:54,924
like there's. Well, there's much less small distributors than there used to be anyway.

516
00:31:54,972 --> 00:31:58,812
But, you know, we don't want to deal with all these people. Right.

517
00:31:58,836 --> 00:32:01,852
You know, the accounting department is, like, not into this. And we already know the

518
00:32:01,876 --> 00:32:05,260
structure of the large houses. We know who to pay. We know when they're due.

519
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:08,124
We know all those issues already. We don't have to worry about it, because I

520
00:32:08,132 --> 00:32:10,760
don't think listeners probably don't know, but there's very

521
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:14,846
serious restrictions on credit in our industry. You can't

522
00:32:14,878 --> 00:32:18,542
just ask for 60 days credit. If you're a retailer or a

523
00:32:18,566 --> 00:32:22,206
restaurant, you're entitled to 42 days, and then you're on a COD

524
00:32:22,238 --> 00:32:26,078
basis. And some of the big distributors are. They will not

525
00:32:26,134 --> 00:32:29,886
budge from that. Other ones are a little more flexible. We learned that

526
00:32:30,038 --> 00:32:33,630
along the way. Well, we also learned that when you're with one of these little

527
00:32:33,670 --> 00:32:37,230
boutique distributors, collections are on you. That's right. You got to go

528
00:32:37,270 --> 00:32:40,702
collect. And that's hard. Yeah. When you're with an rn, DC, or a Southern, or,

529
00:32:40,726 --> 00:32:44,398
you know, a breakthrough, one of the big guys, you don't pay, they don't

530
00:32:44,414 --> 00:32:48,170
deliver. So how is that relationship then with you guys? You do. You

531
00:32:49,030 --> 00:32:52,734
display the landscape out. So if you have this brand and it

532
00:32:52,742 --> 00:32:56,430
goes into the Southern book, which it has, which is very thick these days,

533
00:32:56,470 --> 00:33:00,286
and there's pages and pages of different types of competitive

534
00:33:00,478 --> 00:33:04,184
beverages. Do you have to educate the sales team? Yes.

535
00:33:04,232 --> 00:33:07,540
Oh, 100%. No question about it.

536
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,928
Well, often, because their

537
00:33:11,984 --> 00:33:15,592
landscape changes. You know, they. You know, our

538
00:33:15,776 --> 00:33:19,512
company, Southern, had a big layoff, so all the

539
00:33:19,536 --> 00:33:22,472
people we were dealing with were no longer there. Yeah, there you go. So now

540
00:33:22,496 --> 00:33:26,152
we gotta educate a whole new group. And then if you're talking to the hotel

541
00:33:26,216 --> 00:33:29,574
group, that's a whole different team. The chain division

542
00:33:29,622 --> 00:33:33,446
is different team. So there's. It's always

543
00:33:33,518 --> 00:33:37,174
a. You're always. And you know, you want to be friends with these guys

544
00:33:37,222 --> 00:33:40,902
because they're doing. They're. They're doing work, you know, they're. You want

545
00:33:40,926 --> 00:33:44,310
them to be inspired to pull it out of their bag and talk about

546
00:33:44,350 --> 00:33:47,718
you. I can't tell you how many Gazotchkas and

547
00:33:47,774 --> 00:33:51,606
espresso machines. And I even my wife was going through her jewelry

548
00:33:51,638 --> 00:33:54,950
thing the other day and there was this bar of silver that somebody had given

549
00:33:54,990 --> 00:33:58,624
me. There was a Tanqueray thing. And so because they're

550
00:33:58,672 --> 00:34:02,304
incented by these organizations, as you probably know by now,

551
00:34:02,472 --> 00:34:05,712
like if you sell 10 cases of this Mondavi Cabernet, I'm going to send you

552
00:34:05,736 --> 00:34:09,568
to Italy. And that takes their priority out of the field. So it makes

553
00:34:09,624 --> 00:34:13,232
a smaller company like yours a little. A little more difficult to get the

554
00:34:13,256 --> 00:34:16,752
attention of the brokers. If you can be a friend. I

555
00:34:16,776 --> 00:34:20,480
mean, and I'm saying that because one of the first lessons I ever learned at

556
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,900
Xerox by one of the old school sales rep was

557
00:34:24,659 --> 00:34:28,091
become the buyer's friend. In your case, become the

558
00:34:28,115 --> 00:34:31,451
seller's friend because it's very hard for the friend to tell you

559
00:34:31,475 --> 00:34:35,323
no. And however long it takes, however relationships you have to do whatever you

560
00:34:35,331 --> 00:34:38,923
have to do to become them and be friend, I mean, earn their trust,

561
00:34:39,051 --> 00:34:42,875
right? That they trust you and vice versa and that they go to bat

562
00:34:42,907 --> 00:34:46,587
for you. So now you are in this field,

563
00:34:46,723 --> 00:34:49,211
when we've talked on the phone a few times, you're on our way to San

564
00:34:49,235 --> 00:34:52,739
Diego, you're on your way to wherever. And you make that little

565
00:34:52,779 --> 00:34:56,531
stanchion at the Whole Foods or wherever you're at and you're pouring off

566
00:34:56,555 --> 00:34:59,171
a quarter of an ounce, right? Is it the maximum you can pour. Of an

567
00:34:59,195 --> 00:35:02,963
alcohol in a retail. Does anybody keep going to the line more times until they

568
00:35:02,971 --> 00:35:06,707
get you like an axe? It's

569
00:35:06,723 --> 00:35:10,531
happened. So how is the response then on

570
00:35:10,555 --> 00:35:14,371
the point of sale? At the point of sale, like you're standing again for

571
00:35:14,395 --> 00:35:18,099
the listeners. I don't think anybody else could do this

572
00:35:18,139 --> 00:35:20,755
part of the work. In other words, you could job this out to somebody else.

573
00:35:20,787 --> 00:35:24,516
Right. But where's that enthusiasm and that commitment, that passion

574
00:35:24,548 --> 00:35:27,920
it takes that you have to do this? Well,

575
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:32,004
as we get bigger, we'll be forced to go down the road.

576
00:35:32,172 --> 00:35:35,796
But we have hosted the demos ourselves

577
00:35:35,908 --> 00:35:39,636
from the beginning. And that whole sips

578
00:35:39,668 --> 00:35:43,108
to lips, if people try it, they buy it. So there's no

579
00:35:43,164 --> 00:35:46,980
question. And we have tried to work with other people to

580
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:50,672
train them to do what we do and stuff, but they're not as

581
00:35:50,696 --> 00:35:54,432
engaged. No, they're not. You know, we're as passionate as you

582
00:35:54,456 --> 00:35:58,160
can get. And so anytime we have a

583
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,980
live, wet demo where people actually can try it,

584
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,340
we always sell out. We always sell out. It's.

585
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,352
It's just an. It's a very easy sale

586
00:36:10,416 --> 00:36:14,260
because. Kind of an interesting thought, because you wouldn't think necessarily

587
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,442
with liquor. It is about the story. I

588
00:36:18,466 --> 00:36:22,138
mean, if you two are standing there and you're telling this story,

589
00:36:22,194 --> 00:36:25,978
and the passion's coming from your eyes, that

590
00:36:26,034 --> 00:36:29,802
sells. I remember at Whole Foods, we were in Columbus Circle in New

591
00:36:29,826 --> 00:36:33,194
York, and the guy was supposed to be cutting apples and putting peanut butter on

592
00:36:33,202 --> 00:36:36,266
him, and he had no idea what he was doing. He was sent there, being

593
00:36:36,338 --> 00:36:39,962
paid to stand there, asked me if I had a knife if he

594
00:36:39,986 --> 00:36:43,514
could cut the apples. And I thought, this is the worst

595
00:36:43,562 --> 00:36:47,180
demonstration of service I've ever seen. But I'm thinking to myself now, you know,

596
00:36:47,220 --> 00:36:50,908
wine is about the story. That's what has to sell today,

597
00:36:50,964 --> 00:36:54,140
because you'll get lost in the myriad of

598
00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:57,996
choices. And here you guys are telling the story. Point of sale. I think that's

599
00:36:58,028 --> 00:37:01,820
a great position for you.

600
00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:05,660
You know, it makes instant fans. You know, if

601
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:09,484
people like the product, they like us.

602
00:37:09,572 --> 00:37:13,346
They like the story. Like you said, they continue to buy.

603
00:37:13,468 --> 00:37:16,950
Yeah. And they tell their friends, and so. Do you give them. Like, here's. Like,

604
00:37:17,070 --> 00:37:20,806
you're in a store, so they obviously. That store or that is selling

605
00:37:20,838 --> 00:37:23,782
the product. Right, right. So they know they can come back to that store to

606
00:37:23,806 --> 00:37:27,350
get more. Right, right. And of course, that has to happen in order for the

607
00:37:27,470 --> 00:37:31,270
store to continue wanting to have the product there, because. Exactly. It's taking up

608
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:35,062
shelf space. Right. And how are you finding these locations to. To go

609
00:37:35,086 --> 00:37:38,518
pour at? Well, we've been

610
00:37:38,574 --> 00:37:42,232
to. I mean, they're all. We've been all over California. Who

611
00:37:42,256 --> 00:37:44,872
sets them up? You guys are making fun of them. We do. Well, for example,

612
00:37:44,936 --> 00:37:48,460
like, with Bristol Farms, they're. They're a great client of ours.

613
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,664
They have six locations in California that are licensed

614
00:37:52,792 --> 00:37:56,632
for wet demos. So we can

615
00:37:56,656 --> 00:38:00,472
do dry demos where. Spray it in a cup or, you know, talk. Just tell

616
00:38:00,496 --> 00:38:03,832
the story. It's not as effective, but, you know, we've done

617
00:38:03,856 --> 00:38:07,686
those. But we've gone all over California

618
00:38:07,718 --> 00:38:11,494
to do the. The wet demos. And they have a. A

619
00:38:11,582 --> 00:38:15,254
system, a very organized one, actually, where, you know, vendors

620
00:38:15,302 --> 00:38:18,726
can go on and just schedule it on their calendar,

621
00:38:18,918 --> 00:38:22,278
and then we just show up. Yeah, that's great.

622
00:38:22,334 --> 00:38:25,974
That's. You know, they. So I have a legal question, a

623
00:38:25,982 --> 00:38:29,210
technical question. I went to Whole Foods here, and they were pouring Corona

624
00:38:29,710 --> 00:38:33,552
non Alkali, but I had to stand in line and

625
00:38:33,576 --> 00:38:35,260
said, People 21 are over.

626
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,192
I didn't understand it. I don't quite know why that

627
00:38:42,216 --> 00:38:45,968
is, but probably because it's in the liquor department. Yeah. I don't know. It's

628
00:38:45,984 --> 00:38:49,296
actually the olives. Yeah. So tell me what we brought today. You brought

629
00:38:49,328 --> 00:38:53,136
the. I've tasted the gin martini, I've tasted the Manhattan.

630
00:38:53,168 --> 00:38:56,992
I tasted the bourbon based old fashioned. Yeah, the Old Fashioned.

631
00:38:57,056 --> 00:39:00,260
We have a rum daiquiri that's. That's brand new. That's the newest one.

632
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,064
And that's a kill that tastes the mule. The Moscow mule.

633
00:39:05,112 --> 00:39:08,872
Moscow Mule. And then we have the improved whiskey cocktail, which. That's the

634
00:39:08,896 --> 00:39:12,392
one that won best in class in double gold at the San Francisco World

635
00:39:12,496 --> 00:39:16,120
Spirits Competition. They've all won awards. They've all won

636
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,940
gold or double gold. And that one

637
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,104
is special. It's kind of a fancy old fashioned. It

638
00:39:24,112 --> 00:39:27,950
was one of the first cocktails ever published in a book. 1862,

639
00:39:28,070 --> 00:39:31,742
really. In fact, when we submitted the name to the TTB for our

640
00:39:31,766 --> 00:39:35,390
approval, they kicked it back and said, no, you need to call it something

641
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:38,670
that is a real cocktail. And we had to send them the

642
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:42,382
historic pages from the books to

643
00:39:42,406 --> 00:39:46,238
show them that this is actually the original cocktail. And

644
00:39:46,294 --> 00:39:50,014
so it's rye whiskey, marasca

645
00:39:50,062 --> 00:39:53,886
maraschino liqueur and angostura bitters. And it's

646
00:39:53,918 --> 00:39:57,304
a. It's a great. I think I tasted that one too. That was one of

647
00:39:57,312 --> 00:40:00,904
the first. You might have. Yeah, you really did. So when you submit to

648
00:40:00,912 --> 00:40:04,632
these contests, which are probably relatively new when it comes to, you

649
00:40:04,656 --> 00:40:08,120
know, wine tasting and judging has been around for a long time, but probably alcohol

650
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,832
judging are not as, you know, popular, but

651
00:40:11,856 --> 00:40:15,432
I'm sure it happens. Are you seeing more and more brands as you

652
00:40:15,456 --> 00:40:19,272
submit? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. There are a lot of brands, a. Lot of

653
00:40:19,296 --> 00:40:22,876
people submit, but the, you know, the,

654
00:40:22,948 --> 00:40:26,668
the circle that the winners are actually really good.

655
00:40:26,724 --> 00:40:30,200
I mean, we've. Their competition is fierce and

656
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:35,772
you know, naturally there's a million tequilas and bourbons and, you

657
00:40:35,796 --> 00:40:39,436
know, all kinds of different things. And that as.

658
00:40:39,508 --> 00:40:43,212
As tough as our market is, the. I would not be

659
00:40:43,236 --> 00:40:47,052
wanting to launch a tequila brand or a, you know. Well, I don't get

660
00:40:47,076 --> 00:40:50,646
it. It's. I've never understood that. A million of them. How many?

661
00:40:50,798 --> 00:40:54,502
But very popular. And there's a lot of good ones. A lot of. A lot

662
00:40:54,526 --> 00:40:58,262
of really good ones. But. But it was a really interesting

663
00:40:58,326 --> 00:41:02,134
experience this past year when we won the big award. Yeah. We were invited to

664
00:41:02,142 --> 00:41:05,782
be at the top Shelf tasting and did a whole big dog and

665
00:41:05,806 --> 00:41:09,078
pony show and. And it was not only great

666
00:41:09,134 --> 00:41:12,822
to talk to other winners and other people in the

667
00:41:12,846 --> 00:41:16,592
industry and learn from them, and we just had just

668
00:41:16,616 --> 00:41:19,936
a really spectacular experience. And San Francisco is

669
00:41:20,008 --> 00:41:23,808
the most respected competition

670
00:41:23,904 --> 00:41:27,728
in the industry. Are you enjoying this side of the fence, then? We're

671
00:41:27,744 --> 00:41:31,296
having fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's been. It's been a lot of fun. You're still together?

672
00:41:31,448 --> 00:41:35,180
Yeah, so far, so good. She hasn't kicked me out yet,

673
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,180
but we've. We've met some really great people

674
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,658
and had some really great experiences, you know.

675
00:41:43,714 --> 00:41:47,482
You know, it's interesting this side of the fence because I.

676
00:41:47,586 --> 00:41:50,922
I work with Sandra every day for 25 years, and we even had a

677
00:41:50,946 --> 00:41:54,762
rolling window between our. Our offices, a couple of

678
00:41:54,786 --> 00:41:57,910
different buildings, and I swore I'd never do that again, but.

679
00:41:59,970 --> 00:42:02,630
So it's not up in a door between like an idiot this time,

680
00:42:03,970 --> 00:42:07,354
but we're. We're enjoying. Even though I don't sell wine

681
00:42:07,402 --> 00:42:11,024
anymore, this podcast and other things I do in the industry

682
00:42:11,112 --> 00:42:14,400
have opened more doors for us when we

683
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,192
travel and people we meet. Have you seen

684
00:42:18,216 --> 00:42:22,064
a change in the relationships outwardly from now that

685
00:42:22,072 --> 00:42:25,300
you're out in the street pouring stuff off, meeting the reps

686
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,744
in their own place and teaching them about your product? Have you seen a different

687
00:42:29,912 --> 00:42:33,184
set of relationships? It's a different kind of

688
00:42:33,272 --> 00:42:36,700
relationship. I mean, when we had the restaurant, it was more,

689
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:40,846
you know, we've met a lot of winemakers and a lot of,

690
00:42:40,998 --> 00:42:44,450
you know, distillers and things like that, but now we're.

691
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:48,542
It's a different part of the industry, and we're meeting a lot

692
00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:51,530
of just different, interesting people,

693
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:56,446
as well as, you know, the people on the retail and whether it's a hotel

694
00:42:56,478 --> 00:43:00,170
or a restaurant or a, you know, a stadium or, you know, whatever it is,

695
00:43:01,510 --> 00:43:05,256
it's. It's been a very different dynamic, but a really

696
00:43:05,328 --> 00:43:09,128
interesting one. I know that you were kegging

697
00:43:09,224 --> 00:43:12,712
these things. You still doing that? We are. In fact, we're going to be

698
00:43:12,736 --> 00:43:16,580
launching the Alameda Fairgrounds in the next couple weeks.

699
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,936
To me, it just seems like a. I've had kegged wine and it's terrible.

700
00:43:20,968 --> 00:43:24,584
I mean, generally, they put crap in the keg, or go ahead, just put in

701
00:43:24,592 --> 00:43:27,528
the keg. You know, who's going to care if they're getting a spigot full of

702
00:43:27,584 --> 00:43:31,014
wine? But in this case, wow, what an opportunity

703
00:43:31,062 --> 00:43:34,678
for a venue to have a real cocktail

704
00:43:34,774 --> 00:43:38,214
that doesn't require crafting on the fly. As you experience at the

705
00:43:38,222 --> 00:43:41,702
restaurant no labor. No labor, no waste,

706
00:43:41,846 --> 00:43:45,414
no prep, no training. Literally anybody can

707
00:43:45,502 --> 00:43:48,982
pour. And the life in the keg is probably endless. Pretty much,

708
00:43:49,086 --> 00:43:52,742
yeah. Is there shelf life to these right now? Even the fruit based

709
00:43:52,766 --> 00:43:56,604
ones? So long? We've tested them up to three years now and they're

710
00:43:56,702 --> 00:44:00,016
as good as it really made them. They're really good. Well, that's kind of interesting

711
00:44:00,048 --> 00:44:03,600
because we were in Paris. We went

712
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,104
back last week, two weeks ago, but the first time we went to this restaurant,

713
00:44:07,152 --> 00:44:10,992
Le Tupli, which is part of the LVMH group. And we

714
00:44:11,016 --> 00:44:14,832
were having a great time there. And the menu came and there

715
00:44:14,856 --> 00:44:17,824
was a while there, and I didn't know they did in Paris, but there was

716
00:44:17,832 --> 00:44:21,600
a while there where restaurants in New York were serving like 25

717
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,896
year old Jim Beam and they had a 35 year old

718
00:44:24,968 --> 00:44:28,704
Gordon's gin martini. Wow. I don't know where

719
00:44:28,712 --> 00:44:32,448
you find this stuff. And I had to do it because that was my dad's

720
00:44:32,464 --> 00:44:36,112
favorite gin and he drank martinis and so I ordered this

721
00:44:36,136 --> 00:44:39,632
thing and it was, it was interesting. There were little black specks in it. I

722
00:44:39,656 --> 00:44:42,980
think that was very good. Bugs.

723
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,728
I don't know what gin throws off cocktails and diamonds. Avoid black

724
00:44:47,784 --> 00:44:50,876
specs. But I thought, how interesting. This is like

725
00:44:50,948 --> 00:44:54,156
vintage gin. I never heard of that before.

726
00:44:54,228 --> 00:44:56,920
But the fact that you can have that

727
00:44:57,860 --> 00:45:01,500
without refrigeration, it could sit there for shelf. Yeah. Unlike, you know,

728
00:45:01,540 --> 00:45:05,100
wine ages in the bottle. But this does not. Liquor does not.

729
00:45:05,140 --> 00:45:08,732
Liquor does not. And so, I mean, even after we open it,

730
00:45:08,916 --> 00:45:12,732
once you put the top back on, it stays for the longest time.

731
00:45:12,836 --> 00:45:16,604
The citrus ones, I would refrigerate after they're open, but otherwise,

732
00:45:16,652 --> 00:45:20,292
no. And just this whole idea of cocktails on

733
00:45:20,316 --> 00:45:23,940
tap for venues, as we learned in the, in

734
00:45:23,980 --> 00:45:27,732
the restaurant industry, just makes so

735
00:45:27,756 --> 00:45:31,540
much sense. And, you know, it's hard to find

736
00:45:31,580 --> 00:45:35,220
labor. It's hard to find. You know, it's a different pitch when you're going

737
00:45:35,260 --> 00:45:38,720
out. It is, it's a different pitch, but it's an easy one.

738
00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:42,996
We actually did a side by side. My partner

739
00:45:43,028 --> 00:45:46,614
Pete was our bar manager from the Raymond and

740
00:45:46,702 --> 00:45:50,454
he's a real bartender. He knows what he's doing. I am not. And

741
00:45:50,542 --> 00:45:54,150
so we did a side by side and he made a simple old

742
00:45:54,190 --> 00:45:57,814
fashioned, just, you know, start to finish a

743
00:45:57,822 --> 00:46:01,670
couple shots of bourbon, some bitters, some sugar. In the time he made

744
00:46:01,710 --> 00:46:05,286
one, I made 14. So that's

745
00:46:05,318 --> 00:46:08,646
money. And when you're at a Dodger, what. A great

746
00:46:08,718 --> 00:46:11,820
study, right? Yeah. And it's just

747
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,448
I'm sure you have too. I've gone to Dodger Stadium, waited in line

748
00:46:16,504 --> 00:46:20,144
for 25 minutes, missed an inning, and

749
00:46:20,232 --> 00:46:23,776
to get a $30 bad drink. Yeah, that's

750
00:46:23,808 --> 00:46:27,632
amazing. And so this can pump them out in seconds. And how do we get

751
00:46:27,656 --> 00:46:31,260
to these venues? Like, how would you go to Dodder Stadium? Well,

752
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,312
those are tricky. You know, you're talking about AEG and the, you know,

753
00:46:35,336 --> 00:46:38,630
the big sponsorships and

754
00:46:39,570 --> 00:46:42,830
so it's. Smaller venues

755
00:46:44,370 --> 00:46:48,154
are easier. Yeah. The national ones require

756
00:46:48,202 --> 00:46:51,562
some finesse. You think like the Whiskey a Gogos and this. All those places like

757
00:46:51,586 --> 00:46:54,750
on Sunset would. Oh, yeah. Eat this up. Yeah.

758
00:46:55,090 --> 00:46:58,922
Because, you know, they're cranking out cocktails like crazy. And so for

759
00:46:58,946 --> 00:47:01,430
your growth then. And we're out of time already,

760
00:47:03,230 --> 00:47:06,902
you can add skus. Continue to make cocktails that

761
00:47:06,926 --> 00:47:09,542
people we. Don'T want to, you know, have. You don't have like endless list of

762
00:47:09,566 --> 00:47:12,806
cocktails. You know, that kind of, when you, when you said that and that shelf

763
00:47:12,838 --> 00:47:16,022
kind of reminds me of that. There was that chocolate wine that came out, the

764
00:47:16,046 --> 00:47:19,702
Danish based chocolate wine that was really hot like 15 years ago.

765
00:47:19,886 --> 00:47:23,414
They ended up with like 30 flavors, you know, mint and cream, de mint and

766
00:47:23,422 --> 00:47:27,062
this and the raspberry and strawberry. And I thought, wow, I'm overwhelmed

767
00:47:27,126 --> 00:47:30,044
just looking at the shelf, you know, and I was not into chocolate wine, but

768
00:47:30,052 --> 00:47:33,724
I wanted, I was studying something at the time. So I think you're right. You

769
00:47:33,732 --> 00:47:37,320
know, you got to keep your balance and your mix to the popular things. But

770
00:47:38,740 --> 00:47:41,880
this is such uncharted territory. What do you think is next?

771
00:47:42,580 --> 00:47:46,412
Well, I think, you know, as we go, customers will

772
00:47:46,436 --> 00:47:50,204
tell us what is good and what isn't. You know, it may be a

773
00:47:50,212 --> 00:47:54,012
great cocktail, it just may not be popular. Yeah. And so, you know,

774
00:47:54,036 --> 00:47:57,730
we're, we know a margarita is going to kill it and

775
00:47:57,770 --> 00:48:01,442
the daiquiri is going to be a smash. And our Old Fashioned

776
00:48:01,506 --> 00:48:05,230
is a winner every time. But as we go,

777
00:48:06,330 --> 00:48:09,890
we'll probably maintain the six to eight cocktails on our list of

778
00:48:09,930 --> 00:48:13,618
cocktails, but we'll remove one, one or two

779
00:48:13,674 --> 00:48:16,750
that maybe isn't as popular as others.

780
00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:21,266
I actually would like to do one non alcoholic cocktail

781
00:48:21,378 --> 00:48:25,114
just because there's, there's a demand for that.

782
00:48:25,202 --> 00:48:28,554
And, and like with our group of friends, when you have 12 people

783
00:48:28,642 --> 00:48:32,122
and somebody's driving somebody home

784
00:48:32,306 --> 00:48:35,722
and doesn't want. To drink, you see my face go. Blank like, I know, I

785
00:48:35,746 --> 00:48:39,578
know, I know it's true. But I mean, what about. I, I just want,

786
00:48:39,634 --> 00:48:43,242
if somebody doesn't feel like drinking, I Want everybody to have the

787
00:48:43,266 --> 00:48:47,002
same experience and just feel like they're part of the group. I just

788
00:48:47,026 --> 00:48:50,522
put brown water in a bottle. It's like

789
00:48:50,546 --> 00:48:54,376
decaf coffee. It's like weird fancy

790
00:48:54,408 --> 00:48:57,896
food show a couple years ago when they moved into Vegas from San Francisco,

791
00:48:58,088 --> 00:49:01,832
and the preeminent theme for beverages was non alcoholic everything. So

792
00:49:01,856 --> 00:49:05,064
there's non alcoholic Prosecco and white wine, red wine, and then there's. I don't know

793
00:49:05,072 --> 00:49:08,504
how many non alcoholic distilled spirit type

794
00:49:08,632 --> 00:49:11,540
products there were, but there were a lot. And for me,

795
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:15,368
they made zero sense that they were undrinkable. But they were trying. They were using

796
00:49:15,424 --> 00:49:19,192
Indian spices and trying. I don't see what the point of that is. But, you

797
00:49:19,216 --> 00:49:23,016
know, you see at Whole Foods, you know, a $7.50 of non alcoholic

798
00:49:23,048 --> 00:49:26,820
bourbon, you know, they're 35, 40 bucks. It's. It's there.

799
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,048
But, you know, then you also get back to this whole thing of making something

800
00:49:31,104 --> 00:49:34,424
that tastes like a cocktail. Yeah. Instead of making a

801
00:49:34,512 --> 00:49:37,900
cocktail. So I, you know, that could be a philosophical.

802
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,060
This could be the first argument. Yeah. Well, you know what? Honestly,

803
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,736
it took us years to crack the code on citrus.

804
00:49:45,928 --> 00:49:49,634
And so now we have the Moscow Mule and the

805
00:49:49,642 --> 00:49:53,442
daiquiri and the margaritas coming out. Now that we have

806
00:49:53,466 --> 00:49:57,314
figured that out, I think that will lead us to a. When you

807
00:49:57,322 --> 00:50:00,258
guys came up with this, and then we'll wrap it up. But when you guys

808
00:50:00,274 --> 00:50:03,090
came up with this, you're sitting at the bar, who knows what you're doing, but

809
00:50:03,130 --> 00:50:06,962
you're at the restaurant, you're talking to your bartender, and the

810
00:50:06,986 --> 00:50:10,162
idea comes that you're already making

811
00:50:10,266 --> 00:50:13,470
prefabbing cocktails, so to speak, for that. Nice work.

812
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:17,662
Was there a point there where you, like, you couldn't wait to get started? Like,

813
00:50:17,686 --> 00:50:20,222
I was just like, wow, this is so much fun. This is going to be

814
00:50:20,246 --> 00:50:24,094
really fun. And wow, I got to get out of here. Kind of

815
00:50:24,102 --> 00:50:27,870
thing with this. Yeah. I think we

816
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:31,502
reached a point where we actually had it ready to

817
00:50:31,526 --> 00:50:35,370
bottle and in the bottle. And we were so

818
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:39,886
excited about what it was and the quality that it was

819
00:50:39,958 --> 00:50:43,462
and what it represented as a. A turn in the industry

820
00:50:43,646 --> 00:50:47,462
that we couldn't wait to see it on the shelf. Wow. It

821
00:50:47,486 --> 00:50:50,730
was a. It was an interesting

822
00:50:51,150 --> 00:50:53,810
experience going to some of these

823
00:50:56,670 --> 00:51:00,454
retailers and having them say, we love it. We have no space,

824
00:51:00,542 --> 00:51:03,542
or we, you know, that was, that was the education

825
00:51:03,726 --> 00:51:07,350
that was challenging and frustrating

826
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:11,160
that, you know, building a brand like this when

827
00:51:11,540 --> 00:51:15,132
literally we've never had anybody say we don't like it. Yeah.

828
00:51:15,276 --> 00:51:19,036
But now will you buy it? My only regret is that we weren't out

829
00:51:19,108 --> 00:51:22,812
during COVID because people wanted to treat themselves, make

830
00:51:22,836 --> 00:51:26,668
themselves feel a little bit better, you know, trapped at home.

831
00:51:26,804 --> 00:51:30,236
And this would have helped. Well, I don't, I, I would agree with that.

832
00:51:30,388 --> 00:51:34,220
But then there's, you know, as you know, my daughter's living with us because

833
00:51:34,260 --> 00:51:37,842
they got displaced by the fires. That house didn't burn, but they can't live there

834
00:51:37,866 --> 00:51:41,138
now. And that generation, you know, they are into

835
00:51:41,194 --> 00:51:45,010
convenience and they are into experience and

836
00:51:45,050 --> 00:51:48,578
they are pretty critical of cocktails. I mean, they're

837
00:51:48,754 --> 00:51:52,578
sushi bars and they spend $300 for dinner. And I don't

838
00:51:52,594 --> 00:51:56,402
think you missed that curve. It's just me to tell more people about it to

839
00:51:56,426 --> 00:51:59,950
get them to understand. But doordash and, you know,

840
00:52:00,810 --> 00:52:04,472
postma and all that stuff is part of their lifestyle. Yeah, yeah.

841
00:52:04,536 --> 00:52:07,420
And that whole convenience thing is part of their lifestyle. Dried meat.

842
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,384
But I think that this is a huge part of that. Well,

843
00:52:11,472 --> 00:52:15,320
and that's why, you know, back to the demos and things like that, if

844
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,140
they try it, they will buy it. And there's never a

845
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,552
barrier with price or anything like that. We're probably the most expensive

846
00:52:24,616 --> 00:52:28,232
one on the shelf. You know, we're, you know, this is two to

847
00:52:28,256 --> 00:52:32,024
three cocktails in a bottle, and it's anywhere from 14 to $16,

848
00:52:32,072 --> 00:52:34,992
depending on where you buy it. It could be 13. And so this is how

849
00:52:35,016 --> 00:52:38,480
many ounces? That's eight ounces, 200 milliliters. So

850
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,288
206 and a half ounces, something like that. So, yeah, that's

851
00:52:42,384 --> 00:52:46,192
just sort of two cocktails maybe. Yeah, well, it depends. Maybe at the

852
00:52:46,216 --> 00:52:49,968
Raymond, they're a little cocktail. But

853
00:52:50,104 --> 00:52:53,584
you know, where can you go and get a real high quality

854
00:52:53,632 --> 00:52:56,960
cocktail for seven bucks? Oh, you can't. That's impossible.

855
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,752
Yeah. So when people try. Amazing. Really, you think about it that

856
00:53:00,776 --> 00:53:04,574
way, right? I can't do it. Great value. Yeah. And even at

857
00:53:04,582 --> 00:53:08,286
the hotels where they're charging 25 or 30 bucks for a bottle, they're

858
00:53:08,318 --> 00:53:11,022
saying, well, you can go down to the lobby bar and pay 20 bucks for

859
00:53:11,046 --> 00:53:14,830
one martini or we'll bring you two. And yeah, you

860
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:18,490
know, so it's. Well, this is, you know,

861
00:53:19,110 --> 00:53:22,862
it's about time we had a chance to tell the story and I hope

862
00:53:22,886 --> 00:53:26,330
we can do it again. Thank you. Your next level of,

863
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,472
of not to say success, you're already successful, but I mean, the next level of

864
00:53:30,496 --> 00:53:34,104
sort of the complications that arise and the changes in our market, in our

865
00:53:34,112 --> 00:53:37,672
industry, it's such A. I think you've learned the passion of this

866
00:53:37,696 --> 00:53:41,432
industry is critical, but once you see it and

867
00:53:41,456 --> 00:53:45,112
you realize what it does for people and how it makes them feel and the

868
00:53:45,136 --> 00:53:48,340
things you're providing or. There's nothing like it.

869
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,472
You know, I related to golf. It's like, I'm a terrible

870
00:53:52,536 --> 00:53:55,710
golfer, but in every 18 holes, I'll hit that one

871
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:59,326
ESPN highlight shot. Yeah, right. And then. And then you're excited

872
00:53:59,358 --> 00:54:03,130
again. It'll bring it back. Every time we get a yes, we're like,

873
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:07,374
this is great. You know, this is fun. So interesting to hear the story from

874
00:54:07,382 --> 00:54:11,006
the ground up. And thanks for coming, and thank you for having us.

875
00:54:11,078 --> 00:54:14,462
We'll do it again. Thank you. The Raymond. No, I'm kidding.

876
00:54:14,606 --> 00:54:16,430
Cheers. Cheers.