Romania’s Wine Revival: From Communist Past to International Stage

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And so he would. He would select

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an import wine every month and a domestic wine, and then he would

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alternate the red and the white. So this particular month, which

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was March of 1989, the white

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wine was from Romania. And I'm going to read this to you as part of

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the show, and I want you to just. So we'll just discuss each one of

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these paragraphs. But what's really weird, I just realized when I read this again,

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is the day he featured that. The month he featured.

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That is also the month I started with him. And so he wrote this

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note to his members saying, by the way, my

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son, my youngest son, who's now 30.

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Unfortunately, that's not the case anymore. And he's starting here at

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the Wine of the Month Club. And I go, how fun is that? Because

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I remember the wine very well, which is a fun thing about

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wine, your memory so keen when it comes to flavors and in

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the nose. But I remember this, and I.

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It was $2.50 a bottle.

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Wow. So

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it was really good. Anyway, we'll get started.

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What I do is I'll do a quick introduction.

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I talk about a couple of shows that are coming up that I want people

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to listen to, and then we'll introduce you and we'll start

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talking. And then at the end, I'll turn off the recorder and

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we'll just wrap up. I'll tell you how I handle, you know, the. The press

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release and all that stuff. So we might as well just get started so we

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don't waste any more your time.

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Make sure the record is running. It says yes. Lighting looks

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good. Okay. Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K.

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And I am in studio today about to have a. Oh, wait a minute. How

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do you say your last name? Well,

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I think that it's enough. Marinela and Ardelian. I would say

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Adelian. Adelian.

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I was going to say in French, Ardelian, which is. Sounds

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very good, actually. Yeah, it does sound like

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Marinella. Yes. Okay, we'll start over.

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Beautiful. Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are in

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studio today about to have a conversation all the way out in Venice with Marinella

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Adelaion. And I said it in French. Again,

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introductions in just a minute. Hey, listen to a conversation

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that I just released with my father. Just before he passed a couple

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years ago, I convinced him to sit with me and have a

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conversation on Mike about his career as an immigrant from Cairo,

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Egypt, to America, becoming a merchant and eventually

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establishing the idea of wine in the mail or the direct to consumer

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industry. Really fascinating conversation. I've had a lot of positive

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comments on the re release of that as well.

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There's another episode that came out recently with Jerry Erhold, who is Jerry

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Ehold. He is a an American who lives in

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Missouri who wants to bring back the

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indigenous wine grapes of America. And as we all know, the Vitis vinifera,

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the grapes that we all know, Chardonnay, Cabernet, Merlot,

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didn't really exist in America and there but there were wine grapes

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under the vitis Lambrusca category. And he has

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propagated about a dozen of these things, though he's already

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tossed four of them because the wine is horrid. So have a listen to that

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show. But now while we're here today, we want to speak to Marinella.

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Welcome to the show. Thank you, Paul, for inviting me and

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for doing this beautiful and useful

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podcast. Well, thank you. It's we were

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discussing sort of what your role is in in the world of wine, and you

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use the word wine expert, which I think is underserved.

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You are sort of waving the flag for Romanian wines.

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You live in Venice, you know, which is a very romantic town

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in Italy, in the north of Italy. But your mission is

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really to do what to get Romanian wines back on the world stage.

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I would not say necessarily back, but on the right

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stage and with the right visibility

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because Romanian wines has

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everything what's needed in order to stay at the

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same table with the French and Italian wines. I would say.

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Well, you know, I'm trying to we talk about this. You said

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you're both Italian and Romanian. Exactly. Your

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accent. Like the other day I had a Scottish woman

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who, who, I mean, Irish woman, she's an mw. She

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lives in London. And so I was trying to place her accent. So would you

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I would not know a Romanian accent if I heard it. Would. Would you say

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you have a Romanian accent as well as an Italian accent? I, I heard

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that it's a mix between Italian and Romanian right now in

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terms of my English. So

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perfect. We love that. I mean, my father,

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we were going to talk about him in a little bit, but because of of

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a newsletter he wrote in 1989. But he came to America from Cairo

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speaking five languages and apparently in which I was obviously not around, had

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a very, very thick English accent and never ever

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detected it as a child or as an adult from him. So I don't know

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how he pulled that off. But, you know,

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let's start with this newsletter. This is 1989 and I was fascinated by this.

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I just told you the story about Romanian wines

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because one of the first wines I sold when I came to work with my

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father in 1989 was a Romanian Sauvignon Blanc

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from a winery called Premium. And I'm going to read you a couple of paragraphs

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and I'll ask you to comment on that because I think it's fascinating. It was

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such a popular wine in 1989. It was only

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$2.50, which

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you were, you were stunned to hear. But so my father, first

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paragraph says, maybe you can validate it or we can move on from it. But

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Romania, would you believe, ranks eighth in the world of wine production,

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yet it is slightly smaller than the state of Oregon. Romanians

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drink 30 liters per capita per year compared to our

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own average of less than 7 in America.

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Is that still a valid statement? It depends.

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If we take into consideration only the official numbers or

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we take into consideration the fact that we very

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much love wine producing

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Romania, and not only so more or less. I think that we

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could stay on that, on that range by

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choosing to be safe in terms of numbers. But

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you said number eight. Right now we are in terms

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of, in terms of

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VT culture, in terms of number of actors,

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Romania is on top

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six and number 13 globally

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speaking. Wow. So you, you're right, you're climbing the ranks, aren't

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you? Yeah. Well, it's interesting because, you know, we

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spent, I spent the last 35 years starting with this newsletter. It sounds

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like tasting wines. And I always

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considered a Tuesday, which is our tasting day here, sort of

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a thermometer or a litmus test of what was happening in the industry,

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what was coming to America. And I can only speak on the American market. And

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I had not seen very much, I mean,

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Slavic wines anyway. But Romanian wines

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seem to have disappeared. And I thought this was originally

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like a Pepsi Cola import or part of the Pepsi

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Cola exchange. Is that, does that jive or is that just something I made

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up? Do you? Well, I. It's

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difficult for me to. To imagine that I can say

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that right now the Romanian wine is available

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mostly where the Romanians are living.

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For example, in. I am familiar with two

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importers from Washington and New York City area

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where I had an event three years ago with the Skin and Vino

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Romanesque Open, the Romanian Wine national program

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developed by Carre for Romania,

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of which ambassador and consultant I am. And

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I had a very nice tasting evening with journalists and

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importers where I've met two of them to import as Regal

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Wine and another

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importing company called Amavi Vino

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owned by a Romanian guy, Armand, which is importing

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quite an important number of wineries in,

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in the United States, Romanian wineries. So it's

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more niche, I would say, even when we are talking

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about the quality. I mean, the, the, the

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wineries which are considered to be good wineries in

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terms of. Of quality. Quality of

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wines. So I would say that I'm happy to

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see quality right now mostly most

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more than quantity. For what. What's

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happening in the United States market in terms of Romanian wines

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more than probably other countries in

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Europe. Why not? Do you think

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we're going to get right into the weeds here, as we would say?

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Because I was just looking at the

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Internet sales or the ads that I've been receiving

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on my phone, particularly during the holiday season, and the

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proliferation of new Internet sites, new wine

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sites. And there's a keen

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understanding or keen. I noticed a keen issue, and that is

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almost everybody in America, at least that's selling wine online,

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was talking about, you know, the cheapest, least expensive thing they could come up with.

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I mean, and I was in the subscription business for a long

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time, and they're touting, you know, wines for $5 and

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wine for six and a case for $72, that kind of thing.

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Are you saying that the Romanian that you feel the Romanian

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imports, the stuff coming to America or even Europe or Asia,

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are trying to position themselves in a more quality range and stay

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away from this, the gutter of, of wine. And I will tell you why.

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Because Romanian wines are not cheap. Really.

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They were in 1989. So

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what's happening with that? Why? Because

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the consumption in Romania is still high.

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So in terms of Romanian wines, if you consider that only

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5 to maximum 10% of the local production is

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exported, which is really very low

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percentage. And we have, for

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example, the biggest exporter, the

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biggest producer in terms of bottled

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wines exported, which is.

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And very often they are selling or

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like some other producers, of course, like,

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or private labels for

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the supermarkets or maybe some

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importers, which they want to focus more on label more than

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origin of the wine. So there

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is a huge quantity, but for the rest, the

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producers are willing to invest

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on having their wines or in

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restaurants or a wine. Romanian wine to be

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sold needs a story, needs to be.

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Needs to be

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held by education, because otherwise

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why would you choose a Romanian wine? Because maybe you're

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curious or maybe you know Romanian no friend, or maybe

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your father was dealing with some Romanian wines some

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years ago. So you need. Or

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to have some knowledge, to have some expertise in

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order to be curious. And not only to be curious, but to.

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To try the, the local grapes

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which are becoming more and more popular and

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we won many medals in terms of recognition

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for, for the quality of these local grapes.

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Otherwise, you need to have some more reasons. And in order to have

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some more reasons, you need to have access to information. You need

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have to have access to knowledge and, and

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details about these wines, regions, grapes and

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producers. You know, it's interesting you say that, and I'm going to read the next

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paragraph because we're going to get into it a

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lot of the marketing as this conversation evolves. And I had this

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conversation yesterday on a podcast with a Bordelaise of a

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classified growth Bordeaux, and we started talking about this

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effort it's going to take to teach people to get them to taste,

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because I think the Internet and these kinds of clubs have done a

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disservice to the consumer in not telling the story. So here's

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the second part of this paragraph. You tell me if it's still accurate or. My

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dad was doing lousy research, but it says Romania is

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considered a Latin country more than a slavic land. Around 500

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B.C. the territory of Romania, originally known as Dacia, was

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populated by Romans who were exiled there. Archaeologists,

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archaeological studies show that the grape vine was cultivated

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6,000 years ago. Does that sound

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accurate? Actually, we have lots

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of written articles and legends

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which are saying that viticulture was in

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Romania 6,000 years ago.

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Actually, we have the proofs

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talking about

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2,600 years ago for sure.

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Could be four, six or even

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four or five or even 6,000 years.

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We do not have any doubt in terms of history, in terms

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of tradition for bticulture, we

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are dealing right now, at least at this stage,

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with improving quality nationally,

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embracing more and more local grapes, learning

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how to do marketing and learning how to create

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and to maintain a national voice for the Romanian

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wines. Because now we are ready and

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also interested on export. Until now, export

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not so much. At least for the past 30 years. So

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you think we're sort of on the cusp of, you know, breaking out into the

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worldwide recognition of wine, which is, you know, not an easy task.

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But when you tell this story, or if it's brought up, when you talk about

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the history, potentially 6,000 years old. I'm Armenian, you

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know, we found a winery in Armenia that's 6,000 years old. We

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00:15:14,390 --> 00:15:18,110
visited, we saw the, you know, winemaker's shoe or the cellar rat had shoes

246
00:15:18,110 --> 00:15:21,690
there. But is that an interesting story for the consumer so far,

247
00:15:21,690 --> 00:15:24,730
or are we more interested in, you know, current

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00:15:25,050 --> 00:15:28,810
conversation about Romanian wine, because I think it's interesting. I'm just

249
00:15:28,810 --> 00:15:32,650
a position myself. I think it's interesting that there's this history. It's

250
00:15:32,650 --> 00:15:35,930
kind of. It kind of leads to this idea of old world versus new world,

251
00:15:36,090 --> 00:15:39,930
you know, like, I'm sure the technology of Romania is newer

252
00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:43,370
now, but it's a really old world when it comes to,

253
00:15:43,530 --> 00:15:47,160
you know, to its legacy. So. But is that an interesting

254
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,840
story for the consumer to tell them from the Romanian side of the point of

255
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,520
view? Paul I think that if we want to

256
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,880
sell successfully Romanian wines, it's not enough to talk about

257
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,240
tradition, to talk about grapes, to talk about successful,

258
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,080
how successful are the Romanian wines? So we need to talk about the country,

259
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,760
because this is the difference between Romanian wines

260
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,380
and the probably wines from Bulgaria or

261
00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:17,140
other countries which are beautiful as well. But Romania as

262
00:16:17,140 --> 00:16:20,100
country, as countryside, has something

263
00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:24,340
which is unique in the world, starting with

264
00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:27,780
Transylvania, starting with the

265
00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:31,140
diversity in terms of mountain, sea.

266
00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:35,460
You can have plenty of different styles and different

267
00:16:35,460 --> 00:16:39,180
grapes in one country. So talking about

268
00:16:39,340 --> 00:16:42,860
the Romania is. Means talking about the

269
00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:46,140
Romanian wines and vice versa. That's why

270
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:49,580
I also publish, actually

271
00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:53,660
last year, in autumn of last year, a book

272
00:16:53,660 --> 00:16:57,260
talking about my PhD research

273
00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:01,420
where I've studied about the relationship between a country

274
00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:05,220
and the wine in terms of brand. So we'll

275
00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:09,060
never be enough talking about Romanian wines. We

276
00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:12,820
need to talk about the country, and we need to promote the country in

277
00:17:12,820 --> 00:17:16,380
order to promote the wines. I completely agree with

278
00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:20,220
that. There's a few countries in this sort of

279
00:17:20,780 --> 00:17:24,540
position that have come out of what is the current government of Romania?

280
00:17:24,540 --> 00:17:28,140
Excuse my ignorance. I should have looked this up, but is it democracy? Is it.

281
00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:31,980
No, it's democracy. And we are going to have election

282
00:17:32,060 --> 00:17:35,650
this year, and politically

283
00:17:35,730 --> 00:17:39,450
we are quite stable and we are going better and

284
00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:42,530
better, I would optimistically say. And

285
00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:46,530
it's helpful because we know very well how

286
00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:50,690
important is the stability, politically speaking.

287
00:17:51,170 --> 00:17:54,930
And the producers are, how to say, it

288
00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:58,690
was for the past almost

289
00:17:58,850 --> 00:18:02,370
30 years very difficult to hang out together

290
00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:06,510
and promoting together on. On

291
00:18:06,510 --> 00:18:09,590
the international shows. They are starting

292
00:18:09,910 --> 00:18:12,870
slowly but safely

293
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:16,310
to promote themselves together in international

294
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:20,390
fairs. And it's something very important with

295
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:23,990
what is happening in Romania, the second generation,

296
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:27,510
it's taking over the business in many, in many

297
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:30,870
wineries after the. The communist period,

298
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:34,960
and with a very hard to say,

299
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,560
very healthy approach, which is very much needed in,

300
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,800
in the wine world, I would say we need to connect

301
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,439
it, we need to communicate together when it

302
00:18:48,439 --> 00:18:52,000
comes to a country. When was freedom?

303
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,360
89, 19. Oh, wow.

304
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,400
This was March of 89. We wrote this newsletter. So it was right around that

305
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,210
time. In December, it happened. Well, let's. Let

306
00:19:04,210 --> 00:19:07,690
me, Let me. This is an interesting part of this because I think, and I

307
00:19:07,690 --> 00:19:11,530
don't know what happened in Romania, but certainly other parts of the Soviet bloc,

308
00:19:12,090 --> 00:19:15,570
they were sort of relegated to certain types of beverages. So in

309
00:19:15,570 --> 00:19:19,170
Armenia, you know, virtually any wine making stopped,

310
00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:22,930
except for propagating grapes for brandy. And

311
00:19:22,930 --> 00:19:26,490
so in this way, I look at the Armenian wine market as

312
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:30,490
it's old world because there's, there's a ton of history to talk about, but really

313
00:19:30,570 --> 00:19:34,170
when it comes to contemporary winemaking, it's new world that's they're starting with

314
00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:38,140
from scratch. Would Romania be sort of considered that way? What was it

315
00:19:38,140 --> 00:19:41,980
doing during the Soviet days? Quantity. Just quantity.

316
00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:45,540
So just quantity and investing on grapes which

317
00:19:45,780 --> 00:19:48,820
were delivering quantity. So for the past

318
00:19:50,179 --> 00:19:53,060
20 years, lots of investments on

319
00:19:53,780 --> 00:19:55,140
replanting and

320
00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:01,380
going only on noble vineyards.

321
00:20:01,540 --> 00:20:05,380
And for the past five years, I would say

322
00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:09,220
lots of investments on local grapes. So the international

323
00:20:09,540 --> 00:20:12,980
grapes, in terms of number of actors, it's

324
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:17,140
decreasing and the, the number of factors, in terms

325
00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:20,260
of local grapes, it's growing, which is

326
00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:25,380
encouraging when it comes to,

327
00:20:27,060 --> 00:20:28,930
when it comes to the

328
00:20:31,170 --> 00:20:34,450
authenticity, when it comes to unicity on,

329
00:20:35,650 --> 00:20:39,370
in terms of Roman and wines we could have probably one of

330
00:20:39,370 --> 00:20:43,010
the best so blank in, in this part of the world.

331
00:20:43,170 --> 00:20:46,890
But if we do not have a Fasca Regal or a Fasca Nagra, which

332
00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:50,450
makes a difference, we are going to be stuck on the

333
00:20:50,450 --> 00:20:54,130
price problem or the price subject or question.

334
00:20:54,290 --> 00:20:57,410
So we need to be, we need to have.

335
00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:03,890
Different, how to say the.

336
00:21:07,410 --> 00:21:11,090
We need to have an element which makes the difference. And in this case, the

337
00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:14,050
local grapes are very, very useful.

338
00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:19,010
So here, so this is very, so interesting is what you're saying is like sort

339
00:21:19,010 --> 00:21:22,740
of jiving. I'm going to read you the next paragraph or two, and this is

340
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:25,940
important because we're talking about the time that Romania became free

341
00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:29,860
and what was going on in that production. It says today about

342
00:21:29,940 --> 00:21:33,740
618,000 acres are planted with grapes for

343
00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:37,540
wine production twice as large as California's wine grape acreage, which is fascinating.

344
00:21:37,940 --> 00:21:41,780
And there are four wine growing regions with 17 wine

345
00:21:41,780 --> 00:21:45,420
zones. Our Sauvignon Blanc comes from the Ternava

346
00:21:45,420 --> 00:21:48,340
region. Are we still talking about the same

347
00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:51,580
Appalachian type thing? Is there control?

348
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:55,740
Is there. Is it like, I mean,

349
00:21:55,740 --> 00:21:59,380
California, you can, you can submit to the federal government for an

350
00:21:59,380 --> 00:22:03,140
appellation and you have to prove that there's a reason for. In other

351
00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:06,860
words, there's a certain kind of you know, temperature change or there's a certain kind

352
00:22:06,860 --> 00:22:10,540
of wind that comes up in the morning that changes the character from its

353
00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:14,180
neighbors. Is that similar in the Romanian

354
00:22:14,180 --> 00:22:17,780
government? Yes. And we still have

355
00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:21,100
Ternabe. We, we still have the Sauvignon Blanc.

356
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,720
The G, which is the. One of the most important

357
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,760
producers in Romania is the biggest producer of Sauvignon Blanc

358
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,480
in Romania with 600 hectares of this grape

359
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,240
of Sauvignon Blanc and probably one of the biggest in.

360
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,160
In Europe as a family owned business.

361
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,800
And, and the

362
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,320
doc, we do not have docg like in Italy and

363
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,600
probably only Italy has documented docg like

364
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,920
nation of origin controlled and guaranteed. We have only

365
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,080
doc. And this is also

366
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,880
very good because it's improving. More and more producers are

367
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,360
going on the appellation

368
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,720
cafeterias. We have the. Which is

369
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,360
the office from the government owned by the

370
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:19,920
Agriculture minister, which is giving all

371
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,640
the certificates for the DOC and EGP

372
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,200
which are the geographical indication

373
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,800
for the wines which are not DOC.

374
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,560
So you said four regions. Right now we have

375
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:35,600
seven

376
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:43,160
vertical regions in. In Romania and we

377
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,400
have approximately 500

378
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,400
wineries. Wow, that's,

379
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,120
that's growing because here the next. This is the part that

380
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,880
fascinates me based on what you're saying. He. My father says

381
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,600
so this is 1989, for the past 10 years. So since 79 and

382
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,960
he started this business in 72. He bought his wine shop in 1969.

383
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,960
But for the past 10 years I have consistently stopped by this

384
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,570
particular importer's tasting table to evaluate the Premiat

385
00:24:12,570 --> 00:24:15,770
wines. They fascinate me. The price was always right.

386
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:19,810
Sometimes the wines weren't hitting the mark. But this one did this particular Sauvignon Blanc.

387
00:24:19,810 --> 00:24:23,370
But here's the part I wanted you to, to talk about. Premiat is the

388
00:24:23,370 --> 00:24:27,009
export brand of Romanian wine to the United States. The government owned

389
00:24:27,009 --> 00:24:29,770
agency for wine export, known as Vin Export,

390
00:24:30,570 --> 00:24:33,290
has one distributor for the entire usa.

391
00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:37,940
So was that the government exporting the. Wines

392
00:24:38,980 --> 00:24:42,740
because all the wineries were owned by the by the government because was

393
00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:46,340
no democracy at all. And so how many do you

394
00:24:46,340 --> 00:24:49,780
remember? Do you know how many winers were then around was the Permian was the

395
00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:51,860
only one because it was. I.

396
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:56,500
I don't know. So. So now

397
00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:01,540
freedom comes, democracy comes, people are interested in the wine

398
00:25:01,540 --> 00:25:05,330
trade. Looks like you added a couple of regions, you know, through

399
00:25:05,410 --> 00:25:09,250
the process you have there. And now we're touting because

400
00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:13,010
in this case obviously it's a Bordeaux varietal, but we're looking at

401
00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:16,130
indigenous grapes. Now this as how do You.

402
00:25:16,930 --> 00:25:20,770
How do you. Maybe this is too hard a question to at this point, but

403
00:25:21,170 --> 00:25:24,050
how do you tell the world that it's time for

404
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:28,810
new varietals, you know, I mean even Argentina, you know,

405
00:25:28,810 --> 00:25:32,290
Tao Malbec, which has been around forever from Bordeaux,

406
00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:37,620
Chile has Carmeniere from Bordeaux again. California

407
00:25:37,620 --> 00:25:41,300
grows whatever you feel like, you know. But how do you tell the

408
00:25:41,300 --> 00:25:44,220
world it's time to. To test and explore.

409
00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:48,380
Like what's the most popular indigenous grape in Romania?

410
00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:53,500
And talking about the democracy and what's happening in the last. In the

411
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:56,940
past years. The first private

412
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:00,540
company in Romania is called Serve. And

413
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:04,700
the company was established in 1994

414
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,700
by a French actually Corsican guy

415
00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:12,220
which was in the business, in the wine business.

416
00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:16,140
His family own Piper Itic

417
00:26:16,780 --> 00:26:19,820
and. And also

418
00:26:19,820 --> 00:26:23,660
Domperaldi in Corsica, another very important winery.

419
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:27,320
So lots of, how to say

420
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,120
investors came to Romania. But the first one

421
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,160
to understand the potential of the most relevant

422
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,920
and the most successful today local grape from

423
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,400
Romania, which is Fattascanagara, was Guidepoix.

424
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,320
So this guy arrived in, in Romania and

425
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,430
traveled in more places different, I mean

426
00:26:52,430 --> 00:26:56,190
in different regions, wine regions in Romania and decided

427
00:26:56,190 --> 00:26:59,710
that one hour away from the capital, which is called

428
00:26:59,710 --> 00:27:02,470
Delugare region, he decided to invest

429
00:27:03,270 --> 00:27:06,390
and, and to create this winery which is

430
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:10,710
today a very successful and

431
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:15,110
very well respected winery. And

432
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:19,590
Fasca Nagra since then slowly started

433
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:23,790
to grow together with other grapes. We could say

434
00:27:23,790 --> 00:27:24,070
that

435
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:31,230
10 to 15 local grapes are quite

436
00:27:31,230 --> 00:27:34,910
popular in Romania and enough well

437
00:27:34,910 --> 00:27:38,710
known by the consumers in Romania. But the most

438
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:44,070
popular are this fetascaniagra, which I will try to describe

439
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:47,910
a bit for those who never heard or. Never tried, can't pronounce it.

440
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:54,820
Which sometimes is translated with the Black Maiden.

441
00:27:54,820 --> 00:27:58,500
Sometimes I mean some, some,

442
00:27:59,060 --> 00:28:02,820
some Romanians agree, some others are

443
00:28:02,820 --> 00:28:06,460
not in terms of the translation, but I am quite

444
00:28:06,460 --> 00:28:09,860
confident with Black Maiden, which is called Fetascanagra

445
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:13,940
and has the elegance of Pinot Noir

446
00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:17,900
and character of Sira. So you will have the spiciness,

447
00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:21,540
you will have the versity of Syrah and you will have the elegance of

448
00:28:21,540 --> 00:28:25,020
Pinot Noir. And it's producing every part of

449
00:28:25,020 --> 00:28:28,860
Romania in terms of wine regions. We have in all seven wine regions

450
00:28:28,860 --> 00:28:32,699
from Romania this local grape should you. And we have

451
00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:35,820
white sparkling, rose red for age.

452
00:28:36,620 --> 00:28:39,900
We have a producer which has a collection of

453
00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:45,420
all Fattas Canelo, more than 100,000 bottles

454
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,520
in this region. So yes, so

455
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,240
Pinot Noir, the elegance, which I agree, I'm a huge Burgundy fan, a

456
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,720
very expensive habit. And. But

457
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,280
yeah, because Pinot Noir, when you say

458
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,840
elegance A great term for it because it is so

459
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,320
descriptive of where it's grown. Would I, would I be able to

460
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,200
have finesse? What is it?

461
00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:15,090
Bravo. Thank you.

462
00:29:16,370 --> 00:29:20,130
From the different seven regions and say

463
00:29:20,530 --> 00:29:23,930
I have a reasonable expectation of what this wine should taste like because

464
00:29:23,930 --> 00:29:27,650
it's elegant like Pinot, meaning it adopts

465
00:29:28,290 --> 00:29:31,890
where it's grown. Well, of course,

466
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:36,570
it's hard to say. It depends in terms of

467
00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:39,410
style, in terms of clone, in terms of

468
00:29:40,290 --> 00:29:43,950
red, the rose sparkling. But has that

469
00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:47,790
drinkability, has that finesse which is part

470
00:29:47,790 --> 00:29:51,150
of the, part of the. How to say the

471
00:29:51,230 --> 00:29:54,990
grape character. And it depends how

472
00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:58,670
the producers choose to, to propose the.

473
00:29:58,670 --> 00:30:02,470
The wine made 100% with Fetascanada. I

474
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:06,230
will add something useful as well. One of the

475
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:09,830
most successful red blend in Romania is

476
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:13,370
made of Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon and

477
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:16,490
Fritas Can Agro. Sounds like a super

478
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:19,330
Romanian. Yes, it is.

479
00:30:21,250 --> 00:30:24,930
Bravo. Yeah. Wow, that's fascinating because

480
00:30:27,090 --> 00:30:30,770
again, I can reference Armenia because I'm tied to it and I understand

481
00:30:30,770 --> 00:30:33,810
the problem. I've been there, I've interviewed winemakers from there

482
00:30:35,010 --> 00:30:38,370
and you know, the, the marketing of wine is very difficult. Do you

483
00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:43,310
And I had an interesting conversation with a Washington based winery since you were talking

484
00:30:43,310 --> 00:30:46,670
about Washington. And you know, they have a, they have a system up in Washington

485
00:30:46,670 --> 00:30:50,350
state where the wineries are taxed by a

486
00:30:50,350 --> 00:30:54,150
certain amount of tonnage. And I think they're taxed again when, after they

487
00:30:54,150 --> 00:30:57,910
ferment and bottle and then that money goes to a

488
00:30:57,910 --> 00:31:01,670
commission or a co op of, of all made up of

489
00:31:01,670 --> 00:31:05,030
winemakers to decide how they want to promote the region of

490
00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:08,780
Washington state or Columbia Valley or whichever part it is to the rest of the

491
00:31:08,780 --> 00:31:12,020
world. Armenia, the Armenians can't do this.

492
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:16,140
In fact, one of the interviews was, you know, we're not, we're not very good.

493
00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:19,860
We're all chiefs. We're not very good Indians, we're not very good team players. And

494
00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:23,620
so the idea of trying to tax on volume

495
00:31:24,340 --> 00:31:27,700
that would go to some co op where that marketing is,

496
00:31:27,940 --> 00:31:31,580
is spread around isn't going to happen. What's happening in

497
00:31:31,580 --> 00:31:35,160
Romania, the government's still involved. Is there a group of

498
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,880
winemakers that get together and try to support each other and market,

499
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,920
or are you doing that by yourself? I think that we have plenty in common

500
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,640
with Armenia. Oh,

501
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,880
you figured as much. But yes, but the.

502
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,400
Things are improving, Paul. As I said at the beginning of our

503
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,160
dialogue, the producers are understanding

504
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,840
that an association or getting together when

505
00:32:02,420 --> 00:32:06,140
there is at least one common goal, not necessarily for a

506
00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:09,660
long period. Of time. But maybe for an event or

507
00:32:09,660 --> 00:32:13,220
maybe for a specific action starts to

508
00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:14,900
work. And I. And I

509
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:19,660
experienced that even on my own

510
00:32:19,660 --> 00:32:23,460
way with the Wines of Romania, which is a platform which

511
00:32:23,460 --> 00:32:26,660
I created two years ago. Wines of Romania.com

512
00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:30,980
and through the platform I organized some events.

513
00:32:31,060 --> 00:32:34,580
One of them was at Mundus Vini. One of the most important

514
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:38,420
wine competition in Europe is in Germany where for example,

515
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:41,940
I took all the partners of Wines of Romania and

516
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:46,100
I organized a very nice evening with more than

517
00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:50,139
120 experts from all over the

518
00:32:50,139 --> 00:32:53,780
world tasting and discovering the Romanian

519
00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:57,620
wines. So it's a matter of trust

520
00:32:57,860 --> 00:33:01,540
and timing because we need still we need time in

521
00:33:01,540 --> 00:33:04,540
order to understand how important is

522
00:33:05,260 --> 00:33:08,060
not necessarily a team building in this case, but

523
00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:13,780
creating a common voice which is

524
00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:17,500
needed. Because even if we would have the best producer in

525
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:21,300
Europe will never. Will never be enough. We need to talk

526
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:24,700
about the country. As I said earlier. We need to make

527
00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:29,880
appealing for the diversity, for

528
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,720
the authenticity. If would be only one producer

529
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,840
will never be enough to cover the need for a country.

530
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,880
Here's my thought on that. It's.

531
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,320
It's almost as if the wine industry,

532
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,400
and we all know it's got some troubles. It's got consumption issues,

533
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,160
it's got contemporary generations that are against

534
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,140
alcohol or they don't understand wine and they want not. I just tasted a

535
00:33:57,140 --> 00:34:00,900
very good Prosecco. I mean authentic Prosecco that was de alcoholized.

536
00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:03,500
It was really good. But I don't, I don't get it. I don't know why

537
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:07,340
you do it. But you know, packaging is in, in

538
00:34:07,340 --> 00:34:10,820
the way we have cans and we have bottles, we have plastic. So

539
00:34:11,380 --> 00:34:15,140
I think the wine business, the industry or the marketing of wine, fine

540
00:34:15,140 --> 00:34:18,700
wine is kind of has to take a step backwards. And what I mean by

541
00:34:18,700 --> 00:34:22,420
that, if you look at this patch here, this is a patch

542
00:34:22,420 --> 00:34:25,580
from my father. It's called Les Amie Devant. It was a California was an American

543
00:34:25,580 --> 00:34:28,940
based wine enthusiast group. They held

544
00:34:29,420 --> 00:34:32,980
dinners and lunches and Robert Mandavi spoke and, and. And

545
00:34:32,980 --> 00:34:36,460
Mike Git spoke. All these famous people at that time in the

546
00:34:36,460 --> 00:34:39,820
70s telling those stories were. Were

547
00:34:39,820 --> 00:34:43,020
P1 on one. I mean you did that. And

548
00:34:44,140 --> 00:34:47,700
I don't think in the long run the story

549
00:34:47,700 --> 00:34:51,460
of wine is when I'm sitting at dinner with my friends and family and I

550
00:34:51,460 --> 00:34:55,020
say I got this wine for $5 on the Internet. That's not really a story.

551
00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:59,690
But if I can say that I went to Romania and I tasted this wine

552
00:34:59,690 --> 00:35:03,170
and it was incredible in this Tarvana region with the rolling hills and

553
00:35:03,330 --> 00:35:06,490
all the things going on, you know, that takes me back and it gives me

554
00:35:06,490 --> 00:35:09,730
a reason to appreciate what's in the glass. Do we have

555
00:35:10,370 --> 00:35:13,730
tourism and a wine trail in Romania yet or is it just

556
00:35:13,730 --> 00:35:16,970
burgeoning? Just starting Talking about

557
00:35:16,970 --> 00:35:20,050
Ternave, which is the first one

558
00:35:20,610 --> 00:35:24,420
which comes into my head is I just

559
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:27,380
had a video reportage

560
00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:34,540
which was absolutely amazing in the heart of

561
00:35:34,540 --> 00:35:38,100
Transylvania. A castle used for hunting in the 15th

562
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:40,980
century by gideway

563
00:35:42,340 --> 00:35:45,860
producer now and. And is

564
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:49,620
I would consider as a chateau relief, for example where you can have

565
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,480
everything starting with

566
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,720
gastronomy with photo

567
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,320
hunting with horse riding and

568
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,400
farm to table experience.

569
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,920
It's a very, very impressive

570
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,040
reality which is available

571
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,930
in the heart of Transylvania in Romania. This is only

572
00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:20,610
one example. We still have some

573
00:36:20,850 --> 00:36:23,570
very successful examples and I am

574
00:36:25,970 --> 00:36:29,810
convinced that this is one of the most important tool

575
00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:33,650
which we have. And it's. Luckily it's improving and

576
00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:37,090
growing. We have for promoting Romanian wines.

577
00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:41,410
By promoting Romanian experience in terms

578
00:36:41,410 --> 00:36:44,770
of wine tourism, tourism,

579
00:36:45,260 --> 00:36:48,860
gastronomy. Yes, it's. It's mandatory

580
00:36:49,580 --> 00:36:52,940
and is growing. Well, it's. It's. You know,

581
00:36:53,820 --> 00:36:57,420
the wine industry is very slow. You only get one chance a year and it,

582
00:36:57,420 --> 00:37:00,820
you know, it's agricultural and marketing and you know,

583
00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:04,460
unfortunately I kind of say this unfortunately because we're in this business, you know, to

584
00:37:04,460 --> 00:37:07,100
sell something and to make a profit so that we can do it again next

585
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:10,860
year. Armenia, even Budapest when we were there

586
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,120
seemed like it was stuck between or transitioning out of the

587
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,520
Soviet times. So architecturally arts,

588
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,600
you know, had sort of stalled and now food has come,

589
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,280
gastronomy has come, the idea of farm to tables come. And

590
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,440
when we were downtown Yerevan in Armenia, I was like flabbergasted. We were there in

591
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,280
only 2006 and it still felt like a Soviet

592
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,960
bloc country. And that was you know, 10, 15 years after freedom.

593
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:42,460
And so I'm going to guess that Romania is probably on the same sort of

594
00:37:42,460 --> 00:37:44,940
path. It just. It just takes a lot of time.

595
00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:49,900
It is take time coming from starting with

596
00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:53,660
the trust from the producer side to invest

597
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:57,020
in this part. Because we know very well in

598
00:37:57,260 --> 00:38:00,860
developed country and in countries

599
00:38:00,860 --> 00:38:04,620
like Italy, France, Spain, tourism not.

600
00:38:04,620 --> 00:38:08,380
Is not considered only to be. How to say

601
00:38:08,380 --> 00:38:12,100
an industry by itself. It's also part of brand, part

602
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:15,780
of branding. So giving an experience at the winery

603
00:38:15,860 --> 00:38:19,500
is going to help your brand and branding

604
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:20,980
increase and

605
00:38:23,140 --> 00:38:26,780
you're going to receive how to say the. The

606
00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:30,420
results from. From other sides than. Than selling

607
00:38:30,420 --> 00:38:33,540
rooms and the experiences of the. The

608
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,320
wine hotel that you might have. I just looking

609
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,040
past This. I just

610
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,880
noticed that my father wrote, this wine is 85% Sauvignon

611
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,440
Blanc and 10% Feteasca. Regala.

612
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,800
Regala. If it's from Ternabe, I'm. I'm sure

613
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,440
Tarnabe. You know, I've been saying that wrong.

614
00:38:59,610 --> 00:39:03,130
And then. And 5% Trinor.

615
00:39:03,610 --> 00:39:05,610
Yes. As well. Are grapes

616
00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:10,330
known for their quality in the

617
00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:14,330
Transylvania region And Ternava. It's the most important.

618
00:39:15,930 --> 00:39:19,370
How to say wine area in Transylvania.

619
00:39:20,170 --> 00:39:23,970
So it says, our wine is greenish straw yellow. And I remember it.

620
00:39:23,970 --> 00:39:27,800
In fact, you can't see. Oh, yeah, you can see the shelf here. Yes. I

621
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,440
look behind me and there's more in boxes. These

622
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,240
are, these are a collection of vintages that my VAD featured going back to

623
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:39,040
the 70s that I found, you won't believe this, in a

624
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,840
local home by my home here in Southern California. My wife and

625
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,160
I were on a walk. We went into an open house because the house was

626
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,760
for sale. We went in the basement. There were 200 bottles of my

627
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,560
father's wines on the shelf. The owner of the house had already moved

628
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:57,780
to another Southern California city. And these wines were just

629
00:39:57,780 --> 00:40:01,500
left. And I pulled one out and my dad's sticker was on it. There's actually

630
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,850
a wine that I bought in 1985 or 1990.

631
00:40:04,990 --> 00:40:08,700
1990. And I, I immediately got a hold of the

632
00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:12,540
owner and said, I'll trade you bottle for bottle

633
00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:16,180
for fresh wine. And so this Gentleman got like 20 cases

634
00:40:16,260 --> 00:40:19,540
of really, you know, the current vintages. And I'm sure there's a

635
00:40:19,540 --> 00:40:22,600
premiere Sauvignon Blanc in one of the boxes

636
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,040
unopened, which would be. Loved the taste. But he writes, our

637
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,400
wine was a green straw yellow in color. It has a fruity aroma with a

638
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,800
hint of grassiness and plenty of distinct Sauvignon Blanc grass

639
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,680
varietal character. Very clean. It has a medium to

640
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,360
light body, dry with a crispness of a city and a nice follow through of

641
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,960
fruit. The middle is full of flavor with it lingers in the mouth. It

642
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,880
finishes with a hint of Sauvignon Blanc, green grassness.

643
00:40:48,980 --> 00:40:52,740
Then it says, served chilled with turkey and chicken casserole. I was hoping

644
00:40:52,740 --> 00:40:56,580
he would have put an indigenous Romanian dish there, which.

645
00:40:57,140 --> 00:41:00,580
How, how does that work in Romania now that you're

646
00:41:00,580 --> 00:41:04,420
transitioning sort of the European culture and this idea

647
00:41:04,420 --> 00:41:08,140
of farm to table. Is there sort of a cuisine that grew up with the

648
00:41:08,140 --> 00:41:11,860
wine industry in Romania? So there is a trend

649
00:41:13,940 --> 00:41:17,770
for the Romanian wine. Romanian

650
00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:21,450
dishes approach

651
00:41:21,770 --> 00:41:25,450
with a modern way, like reinterpretation

652
00:41:25,610 --> 00:41:28,890
of the Romanian Gastronomy make it more

653
00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:32,890
modern, let's say. So I

654
00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:36,490
think that it's. It's something which is going to grow and

655
00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:40,130
going to be successful, especially when it comes to food and wine

656
00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:43,490
pairing, when it comes to experiences on the

657
00:41:43,490 --> 00:41:45,930
winery and, and different regions.

658
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,280
And the Romanians, Romanian chefs are also very.

659
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,320
Some of them investing in this direction, which is

660
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,160
talking about, actually through the dishes, is talking about

661
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,800
Romania. So as in most of the

662
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,440
part of the world, Italian cuisine is appreciated

663
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,720
and loved. It happens also in Romania.

664
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,040
But plenty of Romanian

665
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,790
restaurants with Romanian cuisine or

666
00:42:17,790 --> 00:42:21,510
Romanian traditions is more

667
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:25,190
and more appreciated by the tourists, but also by

668
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:28,190
locals because of this modern approach.

669
00:42:29,150 --> 00:42:32,870
So the master of wine, you know, the famed group out of

670
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:35,870
London, just eliminated from their

671
00:42:36,430 --> 00:42:40,110
vernacular the word old world and new world.

672
00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:43,710
And I, I. People would ask that question here at my business, and

673
00:42:43,710 --> 00:42:47,400
I, you know, the definition always sort of carried two meanings for me.

674
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,360
One would be the idea of old world being just old, an

675
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,280
old vintage, I mean, an old part of the wine world.

676
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,240
Romania would be included in that. Armenia, France, of course, with

677
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,800
America, Australia, Argentina would not. Then

678
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,640
it's also sort of evolved to a style, you

679
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,440
know, younger, fruity or more approachable wines versus earthy or tobacco earth and all those

680
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,250
things. But it was interesting to me that the MW group

681
00:43:13,250 --> 00:43:16,970
would outlaw that, because here in Romania, it sounds like

682
00:43:18,010 --> 00:43:21,850
you are new world because you get a chance to do whatever you want. You

683
00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:25,570
can grow whatever you want. You're not bound by the AOC or you're not

684
00:43:25,570 --> 00:43:29,050
bound by, you know, the five grapes, like in Bordeaux or

685
00:43:29,050 --> 00:43:32,770
Burgundy for the two. Would you consider that idea? Would you

686
00:43:32,770 --> 00:43:36,570
say that you would? With an emerging cuisine

687
00:43:37,530 --> 00:43:41,050
and being able to do what you want, call it new world wines.

688
00:43:43,050 --> 00:43:46,330
Well, by eliminating new and old world,

689
00:43:46,650 --> 00:43:50,450
for me, it seems like avoiding to say if you're a

690
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:54,170
feminine or masculine, you know, somehow. So trying to be more

691
00:43:54,250 --> 00:43:57,810
like. That's interesting. I don't agree with myself. A

692
00:43:57,810 --> 00:44:01,370
bigger audience. Yeah. Because if you are

693
00:44:01,370 --> 00:44:04,810
saying you're a new world, maybe you would miss the

694
00:44:05,350 --> 00:44:08,430
old world. If you are saying that you are from the old world, you are

695
00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:12,230
missing the new world. So I feel that is a

696
00:44:12,310 --> 00:44:16,150
commercial need in somehow. And on the other

697
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:19,590
hand, it's also true that it's

698
00:44:19,590 --> 00:44:23,430
extremely difficult to talk about terroir today. Well,

699
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:27,430
yeah, go ahead, finish. No, please. I.

700
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:31,470
Yesterday, this tasting, we tasted Bordeaux from Chateau La

701
00:44:31,470 --> 00:44:35,080
Grange and we went back to

702
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,760
83. And it was obvious to me that this was made under a different

703
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,520
philosophy. And I think you'll agree that Terroir is

704
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,320
not just the earth and this, the weather and the wind. It's, you know,

705
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,160
the, the history of the winery and the winemaker contributes to this.

706
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,640
So I, I think it kind of ties your hands. I, I would be very

707
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,360
comfortable, I was very comfortable in this tasting to say this is

708
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,200
old world, at least in its character as a style.

709
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:04,660
And the reason I brought that up is because, you know, I guess we get

710
00:45:04,660 --> 00:45:07,620
tied up in the academia of wine and it's like you can make these arguments

711
00:45:07,620 --> 00:45:11,340
about whatever you want, but you know, the MW

712
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:14,460
program, Master Psalms, a diploma W set

713
00:45:16,140 --> 00:45:19,660
has evolved along for years and years. I had a

714
00:45:19,980 --> 00:45:23,820
Ms. In here not too long ago, a good friend, Emmanuel Kamiji, and

715
00:45:23,820 --> 00:45:27,100
he's like, yeah, when I passed the test in 1996,

716
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:31,460
we didn't even know about almost Argentina, Chile was barely on the

717
00:45:31,460 --> 00:45:34,620
radar as far as studying for it. Has

718
00:45:35,020 --> 00:45:38,860
these groups recognized

719
00:45:39,100 --> 00:45:42,860
the importance of the Romanian wine districts, or do we still have time

720
00:45:42,860 --> 00:45:46,460
to expose them to it? We still have

721
00:45:47,340 --> 00:45:51,020
not only time to expose, but I think the duty

722
00:45:51,020 --> 00:45:54,630
to do that, because I

723
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:57,910
think you talk about earlier, that

724
00:45:58,470 --> 00:46:02,110
is the people curious. Why would be curious to

725
00:46:02,110 --> 00:46:05,830
taste the Romanian wine and to discover a Romania or wine coming from

726
00:46:05,830 --> 00:46:09,350
Romania. A person which is

727
00:46:10,070 --> 00:46:13,910
passionate about wine is also curious. You want to taste

728
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:17,750
something different, you want something new.

729
00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:22,270
Otherwise you would be only a consumer. Doesn't

730
00:46:22,270 --> 00:46:26,040
matter what it's written on the label. If it's white, maybe a

731
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,600
Sauvignon because it's easy to pronounce, or a Chardonnay because it's sexy,

732
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,200
might be enough. Otherwise, if you want to explore

733
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,080
something more based on your preferences, you

734
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,320
might want to be impressed. You might want to be

735
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:41,600
how to say

736
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,960
we need that enthusiasm when we are

737
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,720
exploring new tastes and new wines. That's all

738
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,560
about. So I think that is right on. I think

739
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,120
we. And I think it goes back to this experiential part of wine, which is,

740
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,040
I would love to hear your interpretation of this

741
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,079
supermarket shelf in Romania. But I can tell you in

742
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:10,720
California, United States, it's all the same stuff and it's all the same

743
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,120
what they call, what we call formula wines

744
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,600
actually fermented backwards to the extent that

745
00:47:18,510 --> 00:47:22,230
they choose a profile of a character and then they make a wine that

746
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:25,230
satisfies the consumer's needs. And I, I'm.

747
00:47:25,870 --> 00:47:29,070
I can't say I'm against this, but I don't like it

748
00:47:29,630 --> 00:47:33,390
because we need those wines because people that want to learn how to

749
00:47:33,390 --> 00:47:37,070
drink wine have to start with them. But you and I Taste wines of

750
00:47:37,310 --> 00:47:41,030
great complexity and character in our career, and we

751
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:44,820
want people to know about those. So what is the shelf

752
00:47:44,820 --> 00:47:48,500
like in Romania? And are you, are you beginning that

753
00:47:48,500 --> 00:47:52,300
path now that you're finding there's a consumer palette that we need

754
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:56,140
to satisfy? Or are people accepting Romania, the things that you're putting out

755
00:47:56,140 --> 00:47:59,940
there, based on their quality? I have double experience

756
00:48:00,100 --> 00:48:03,900
here, double as a consumer and also as

757
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:07,660
a consultant for the supermarket, one of

758
00:48:07,660 --> 00:48:11,270
the biggest group in the world, I would

759
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:14,870
say a French group, and more than

760
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:17,150
70% of the wines are still.

761
00:48:21,470 --> 00:48:25,150
Both on the shelves on the supermarkets. Yeah. And

762
00:48:26,350 --> 00:48:30,190
talking about this specific supermarket, this specific retail,

763
00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:34,470
we created, created a program which

764
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:37,980
is encouraging small producers which

765
00:48:37,980 --> 00:48:41,460
otherwise would not be able to sell their wines in the

766
00:48:41,460 --> 00:48:44,700
supermarket. No, that's great. We have

767
00:48:45,340 --> 00:48:48,860
60 more or less private labels which are not

768
00:48:48,940 --> 00:48:52,380
private labels, literally are wines

769
00:48:52,460 --> 00:48:55,740
which were created by me and the

770
00:48:55,740 --> 00:48:59,100
buyer on the supermarket based on,

771
00:49:01,030 --> 00:49:04,470
you said, kind of copy paste,

772
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:08,550
which is, how to say, successful for the consumer.

773
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:12,670
In our case, we encourage the local grapes. We

774
00:49:12,670 --> 00:49:16,150
have almost 15 local grapes listed in the program.

775
00:49:16,870 --> 00:49:20,710
We encourage the wines which are, how

776
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:24,550
to say, successful commercially and not because of the

777
00:49:24,550 --> 00:49:28,250
taste, but a good wine. I said that we have

778
00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:31,770
more or less five wineries, which are

779
00:49:31,770 --> 00:49:35,530
definitely a low number compared

780
00:49:35,530 --> 00:49:39,290
with the number of actors, almost 200,000 hectares of

781
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:43,450
vineyards in Romania. And the producers, some of them, especially

782
00:49:43,690 --> 00:49:46,570
the smallest one, they might need

783
00:49:47,450 --> 00:49:50,570
some input, some insights in order to.

784
00:49:51,130 --> 00:49:54,880
How to say, to reach easier the consumer, maybe in terms

785
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,480
of label, you will need this label instead of that, the other label,

786
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,840
or in terms of vinification

787
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,760
sometimes. So the. The situation of supermarkets in Romania,

788
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,200
I would say that is useful

789
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,600
for the wine industry,

790
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,640
localist thing and growing in terms of why not

791
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,390
even quality education? Because as well with this program also

792
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:24,150
we invest on the. On the education, educating the consumer,

793
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:27,350
learning about the grapes, the regions, the producers,

794
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:33,030
the sparkling, which is still a trend in Romania, not so much as

795
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:36,830
the. For example, the rose, it's getting a bit down as

796
00:50:36,830 --> 00:50:40,230
a trend, but the sparkling is like growing very much as a. As a trend

797
00:50:40,230 --> 00:50:43,670
in Romania. And the wine bars are still

798
00:50:43,830 --> 00:50:46,860
not many in Romania we have. But

799
00:50:47,420 --> 00:50:50,900
I'm sure that with a bigger number of wine bars in

800
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:54,700
Romania, the education or the information

801
00:50:55,180 --> 00:50:58,300
will get much easier and faster to the consumer.

802
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:02,660
So fascinating, you know, just because of

803
00:51:02,660 --> 00:51:06,500
politics, because of region, because of proximity, you know, whatever

804
00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:10,300
the reason is that there's so many countries in

805
00:51:10,300 --> 00:51:14,050
so many different parts of their path to, let's just

806
00:51:14,050 --> 00:51:17,410
call it world class acceptance of their brands and There's a lot, There's. I mean,

807
00:51:17,410 --> 00:51:21,250
there's a lot coming. Croatia is one of these places. Slovenia,

808
00:51:21,250 --> 00:51:24,810
I mean, Croatia. When we were in. In Croatian a few years ago,

809
00:51:25,050 --> 00:51:28,810
I was flabbergasted at the quality of the wines. Couldn't pronounce

810
00:51:28,810 --> 00:51:32,530
the grapes, but had to rely entirely on the

811
00:51:32,530 --> 00:51:36,250
sommelier of the restaurant to understand what I needed or

812
00:51:36,250 --> 00:51:40,060
what felt like drinking, because I wouldn't know, you know, anything.

813
00:51:40,060 --> 00:51:43,900
And so this is really interesting. It's such a. We're all. We're almost at an

814
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:47,620
hour already, so we have to wrap it up soon. But is. Let's

815
00:51:47,620 --> 00:51:50,940
finish with this subject because it's so new in this. The

816
00:51:50,940 --> 00:51:54,740
evolution, even though it's been 30 years since, since freedom,

817
00:51:55,860 --> 00:51:57,620
more 40, 35 years.

818
00:51:59,540 --> 00:52:03,300
Is there then sustainability,

819
00:52:04,050 --> 00:52:07,850
biodynamic, organic? Are. Are those conversations happening

820
00:52:07,850 --> 00:52:11,290
or were they always, like I've always said wine was always

821
00:52:11,290 --> 00:52:15,130
organic. We screwed it up and now we're acting like we're so heroes because

822
00:52:15,130 --> 00:52:18,850
we're going back to organic. But you know, is it. What's the

823
00:52:19,170 --> 00:52:22,450
prevailing philosophy amongst the winemakers in Romania?

824
00:52:23,410 --> 00:52:27,090
Talking about the. The supermarket, one of the most successful

825
00:52:27,170 --> 00:52:30,890
wine in this exclusive range for

826
00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:34,250
the private label. It's a biodynamic wine, a biodynamic

827
00:52:34,250 --> 00:52:37,890
Fetasca Nagra coming from the only one

828
00:52:38,850 --> 00:52:42,610
winery dedicated to the biodynamic,

829
00:52:44,370 --> 00:52:48,050
biodynamic agriculture and is very

830
00:52:48,610 --> 00:52:52,370
successful. And it's growing in terms of

831
00:52:52,770 --> 00:52:55,890
development, in terms of. In terms of

832
00:52:56,050 --> 00:52:59,610
direction. Organic and biodynamic is growing in

833
00:52:59,610 --> 00:53:03,270
Romania not because of the consumer or the local

834
00:53:03,830 --> 00:53:07,350
consumption. I mean, it's not necessarily a needs

835
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:10,630
coming from internal market, but

836
00:53:11,350 --> 00:53:14,910
because of the owner philosophy or

837
00:53:14,910 --> 00:53:18,470
because the. The trend. And you want to create

838
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:22,110
something unique and you have the possibility to do that because

839
00:53:22,110 --> 00:53:25,430
we know very well it's an investment, a bigger investment

840
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:29,450
sometimes, especially when it comes to some numbers, because when it's

841
00:53:29,450 --> 00:53:33,250
a small winery, maybe it's even. Probably

842
00:53:33,330 --> 00:53:36,450
might be even cheaper to have an organic instead of a

843
00:53:36,450 --> 00:53:39,730
conventional one. But

844
00:53:40,210 --> 00:53:43,810
definitely it's a trend growing into the Romanian

845
00:53:43,810 --> 00:53:47,650
market. And it's not from today, it's not from yesterday. For

846
00:53:47,650 --> 00:53:51,490
many years already, organic wineries, vegan are available

847
00:53:51,570 --> 00:53:53,650
in Romania. For the past

848
00:53:56,610 --> 00:54:00,450
16, almost 10 years, the. The

849
00:54:00,530 --> 00:54:03,530
Dominion Bogdan, which is the winery focused on

850
00:54:03,530 --> 00:54:07,250
biodynamic, is. Is doing very,

851
00:54:07,410 --> 00:54:11,170
very well in Romania. So sustainability and

852
00:54:11,170 --> 00:54:14,890
also this part of organic,

853
00:54:14,890 --> 00:54:18,530
organic wines. I've said this many times on the show that

854
00:54:18,530 --> 00:54:21,810
sustainability. The wine industry was probably the most natural

855
00:54:22,550 --> 00:54:25,590
industry in the world for sustainability, because of its

856
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:29,110
interaction with. With the earth and the culture,

857
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:33,270
you know, organic and biodynamic. I think, like I said,

858
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:36,390
it was always that way. We introduced these things.

859
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:40,870
But I think in the beginning, at least in California, the idea of

860
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:44,630
organic and biodynamic wines meant you needed to suffer through some

861
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:48,430
things because you were doing something healthy, which is. I don't

862
00:54:48,430 --> 00:54:52,220
ever believe that just because the wine is organic, you're being healthy for yourself. But

863
00:54:52,220 --> 00:54:55,340
the idea that you can make a wine that tastes like kombucha

864
00:54:56,060 --> 00:54:59,860
and then tout that it's biodynamic is really not relevant. And

865
00:54:59,860 --> 00:55:03,620
I think one of the things that biodynamic wines do, which is really interesting

866
00:55:03,620 --> 00:55:07,020
to me, it sort of hit me not too long ago, we were just talking

867
00:55:07,020 --> 00:55:10,060
about formula wines in the supermarkets, at least in California,

868
00:55:10,620 --> 00:55:14,420
you know, you buy Josh or you buy Apothec Red or you buy, you

869
00:55:14,420 --> 00:55:18,060
know, Yellowtail, you're gonna expect that same character over and over,

870
00:55:18,060 --> 00:55:21,700
almost like a bottle of beer, right? I buy Heineken because it tastes like

871
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:24,980
Heineken. And biodynamics, the exact opposite of that.

872
00:55:25,540 --> 00:55:29,140
Because if you're doing truly biodynamic, you're actually just at the

873
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:32,260
whim of the terroir and

874
00:55:33,460 --> 00:55:37,140
the soil and the weather and the organic material

875
00:55:37,140 --> 00:55:40,700
in the soil at the time. And you will have a dramatically different wine from

876
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:44,300
year to year, by definition. So I always thought that was a

877
00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:48,060
fascinating part of what we're doing. We have a lot to talk

878
00:55:48,060 --> 00:55:51,020
about still, but the show's only an hour and we're already there.

879
00:55:51,820 --> 00:55:54,700
I think, you know, time flies and you're having fun, Right. So

880
00:55:55,820 --> 00:55:59,380
next time we should have a glass of Romanian wine close by. So I would

881
00:55:59,380 --> 00:56:02,860
love to do that because that's one of the questions I had sent to you.

882
00:56:02,940 --> 00:56:06,700
Do you know of any L. A groups that are bringing wine,

883
00:56:06,780 --> 00:56:10,460
Romanian wine, to Los Angeles? Like I said, I haven't seen them for years.

884
00:56:11,340 --> 00:56:14,780
It's for sure Total Wine should have. Because

885
00:56:16,170 --> 00:56:19,610
the importance are collaborating. Some of them are collaborating with

886
00:56:20,090 --> 00:56:23,210
Total Wines, which I know that probably it's not the

887
00:56:24,010 --> 00:56:27,610
how to say the. The first place

888
00:56:27,610 --> 00:56:31,410
which came to might come to you, to your head. You just said

889
00:56:31,410 --> 00:56:33,930
that supermarket. Maybe it's not the.

890
00:56:35,690 --> 00:56:39,450
The first how to say option when it comes to buying wine

891
00:56:39,690 --> 00:56:42,800
to places where to buy wine,

892
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,560
but I would recommend to use

893
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,160
the. The Mr. Google. Yes,

894
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:56,320
we'll do that next time. Yeah. And it's been fabulous to hear your

895
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,160
expertise and your. Your passion for what you're doing.

896
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,720
And we will definitely have this conversation again in a few months to see what's

897
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:07,040
changed. And it's such a pleasure to meet you and have you on the show.

898
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,500
And I, I have to say I don't have it in my current wine

899
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:14,060
travel plans to be in Romania, but it certainly sounds like I need to get

900
00:57:14,060 --> 00:57:17,860
there and experience you. Consider, consider yourself invited in

901
00:57:17,860 --> 00:57:21,420
at least in Transylvania over

902
00:57:21,420 --> 00:57:25,020
there, which you mentioned. A few times, I have to tell you. Is

903
00:57:25,020 --> 00:57:28,620
premiere still around? Might

904
00:57:28,620 --> 00:57:32,260
be, but I would recommend if even if would

905
00:57:32,260 --> 00:57:35,620
be. I would prefer to recommend something which is.

906
00:57:35,860 --> 00:57:36,660
How to say.

907
00:57:40,690 --> 00:57:43,330
It, which will make talking about.

908
00:57:44,290 --> 00:57:47,930
About Romanian wines even in the future, how to say

909
00:57:47,930 --> 00:57:51,690
like something which will. Will stay for a

910
00:57:51,690 --> 00:57:54,850
long time in your, in your dialogues with.

911
00:57:55,410 --> 00:57:58,930
With friends at the table, let's say. Well, the reason I brought up is that

912
00:57:58,930 --> 00:58:02,570
it's been actually very rewarding for

913
00:58:02,570 --> 00:58:06,310
me to find these newsletters and I started to

914
00:58:06,310 --> 00:58:10,070
write them. I wrote them for about 10 years and bring them back to

915
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:14,270
some of the original vineyards. So we're going to be in Piemonte in

916
00:58:14,270 --> 00:58:18,070
May, and I'm taking a copy of a 1981 newsletter to

917
00:58:18,070 --> 00:58:21,910
Pio Cesare. He's already seen it. But, you know, they. There's

918
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:25,430
so much we talk about history and we talk about stories to tell,

919
00:58:26,070 --> 00:58:29,750
and it's really fun to be part of. What was their sort of,

920
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:33,800
you know, launch in America? I can't imagine. I think my

921
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,520
dad probably bought three or four hundred cases of this Romanian

922
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,040
wine. That had to be one of the largest purchases ever,

923
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:45,120
you know, at the time. So I don't know. Anyway, such a

924
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,560
pleasure to, to hear your story and the expertise and we'll do it again.

925
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,640
And thank you for being on the show. Thank you, Paul. Cheers.

926
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:53,760
Cheers.