Napa Cabernet Reinvented: Kelham Vineyards’ Ron Nicholsen on Releasing Decade-Old Wines

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My father was giving me an opportunity of revealing

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what the land can do and he knew it.

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And he just wanted the opportunity to champion

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an independent, unblended product that was purely

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about his last name. Kellum Vineyards.

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Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine

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Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And this is your host, Paul Kay.

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100,000 wines tasted, 17 million bottles sold. But we are up

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in the Napa Valley having a podcast with Ron Nicholson

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of Kellum. I was going to say Kelham again, but Kellum Vineyards,

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welcome to the show. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. What do they call you?

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What do you call yourself? Like president, CEO? Like founder.

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Founder and winemaker. Yeah. So the one man show. I'm a one man show.

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Wow. It didn't start out that way though. In this crazy industry.

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I know. I was reading a little bit the bio. It's an interesting bio for

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the winery. Talk about the founder and the inspiration

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at the founder. But the inspiration of what you're doing. Yeah, you know, my

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father was a well known grape grower. So he's been up in the

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valley since the early 50s. In

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the late 60s he got really interested in the grape growing side of the industry.

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And there were a number of producers here in Napa that were,

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you know, making their own wines at that time. And he went to them and

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asked specifically if I was to, you know, grow grapes

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for you, which grape varietals would you purchase the fruit from to make your

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own wines? And so in the early 70s he

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planted cabernet and Merlot, Little Sauvignon Blanc and

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Chardonnay. And it was called Vine Hill Ranch.

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Just a grower. Just. Just a grower. Strictly a grower.

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Acreage at that time, Vine Hill I think was close to 150

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acres. Good size. So it was a large piece, but

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you know, it was a family piece from the, the mid-50s. The

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Kellum family is a four generation San

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Franciscans. And I have to preface that Mr. Kellum was

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my stepfather. Ross and Kellum. And so

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My mother met Mr. Kellman the early 90s and they

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were married. And my brother Hamilton and I moved up of

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Alley and wow. Started to, you know, go to school and

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live life with Mr. Kellum. But the wonderful part about

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Mr. Kellum, or I called him Rory, his first name was Rossen,

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so we went by Rory, is that he was a very generous

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guy and he was instrumental in giving me opportunity as a

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young kid, you know, to understand the wine business.

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So, you know, as a Summer project. When I was 13, I. I planted

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a. A little Cabernet vineyard. When I was 15 years old,

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I got my first job. Summer job at Camus working

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on the line. This is in

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1991. Was it? Yeah. Was it a brand then, like.

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Absolutely. I mean, that was when Caymus Special select was Caymus Special Select.

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Oh, wow. I got my job from suspender wearing, you know,

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Charlie Wagner. Not Chuck. Chuck's the. Really,

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to me, the testament to, you know, the.

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In the wine business and marketing skill. But Charlie's

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dad, he was strictly. He was an old farmer. Wow.

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And so he and my grandfather were friends back in the day. They would run

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the tasting room at Camus on Tuesdays in the wintertime

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because no one would come to Napa Valley and do a wine tasting then. Wow.

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They were terrible. 90S, let me say. I'm gonna just stop for a second. The

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90s for the wine trade. Yeah. 76. The judgment of Paris took

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still probably 10 years for America to understand what that

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meant. Maybe eight years. And so 90s are really the beginning of

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probably the renaissance of wine in California. Yeah. I mean,

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in the. In the late 80s 90s,

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that's when Napa Valley got the traction. You know, it became

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an experience. You had, you know, the French Laundry. You had all

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these amazing chefs opening restaurants and developing this experience

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that was, you know, food and wine related. I mean, that's the

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foundation of how, you know, Robert Mondavi promoted himself, is

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there was a lifestyle and an experience that you should live each day, and it

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included wine and included food. And you

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probably feel rather a lot of gratitude to your stepfather

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for introducing you to this. You know, I lost him in

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2011. Oh, no. And there's not a day

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that goes by where I don't get a smile on my face remembering him.

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Right. But I absolutely do miss him. He was an amazing

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guy, and he was the only guy in my

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whole life. My bloodfather passed away when I was young, so

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I remember him, but I never knew him. But

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Rory was the only dude that ever believed in me. So he

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always shared with me. And he was from a very affluent

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family here from California, and he always shared with

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me. He said, you know, I'm going to give you as much opportunity

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while I'm living, because when I die, the

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opportunity goes to my children. Really? How interesting.

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That was a legacy thing. You know, he. He. You know,

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his opportunity came from the hard work of, you know, his parents

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and his grandparents and his great grandparents. And he really believed

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it was his responsibility for that wealth to transfer to his own children for their

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own legacy. Well, I mean, it's fair enough, but what an interesting comment.

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And to say this is. It's coming your way right now. Yeah.

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And so, you know, either recognize it or don't recognize it. Exactly. And

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that's what happened. Yeah. So, you know, as a kid, I'm

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playing in the vineyard. I'm working, you know, at Camus. I'm

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understanding the industry. I'm falling in love with the product and the people

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and the process. And it was,

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you know, through my senior year in college, where I presented the idea

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to my stepfather about going into the wine business.

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And he said, if this is something you really want to do, I'll finance it.

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Wow. And so he, you know, he actually wrote me a check

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for $50,000 on the spot and said, this is a loan. And

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he kind of said, there's the opportunity. He's talking about, go figure it out.

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So kind of fast forward maybe two, three months, and

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he comes back to me, and he says, you know, I'm gonna give you

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an opportunity of a lifetime. I said, what is that?

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And he said, I want you to produce half of your

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wines in the traditional Bordelise style.

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Dry, austere, powerful, and age worthy.

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I said, all right. And he's like, I want you to hold them in bottle

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for 10 years before you release them. 10 years? 10

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years. It's already expensive enough to do this. And I said, you're out of your

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effing mind. I said, that makes no sense. I said, that 50 grand just turned

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into 5 million. And he said, well,

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I can afford it, and this is what I want you to

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do. Wow. And so my best wines

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that I produced, my first commercial vintage in 1998,

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weren't released until 2008. Wow. So, wait, let's stop

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there. So you just said, my first vintages, you had to have done

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something besides just work in the tasting room or a little bit for Camus to

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know how to do this. And by the way, under those instructions. Yeah.

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So from. From Camus, I went to Cane Sellers. Oh.

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Work with Chris Howell up there doing the cane five. Wow.

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So I really understood grape growing. Hillsides. 90.

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That's in 1994. 90.

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95. And

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from there, I moved down to Spring Mountain Vineyards

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and really, you know, worked with Craig McLean there.

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And Craig and I became good friends, and

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he is really the person that championed the idea of

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going out and doing our own wine. And he understood the quality

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of grapes that my father had, and he included me as part

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of his, you know, partnership in founding the

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original wine. So it was Craig, who was a winemaker, myself,

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who was really sales and marketing. And then we had four other partners.

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Another guy in marketing, another guy in the creative side.

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We had a banker and we had more of

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a kind of a logistics, you know, partner was really kind of more of

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a general manager type person. Yeah, I had

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to have a banker in the wine business. Oh, absolutely, 100%.

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But know that's kind of. It was a wonderful synergy that we had.

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And, you know, today I look back at it and

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I, and I think, you know, it could have been wonderful with those original

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partners. Yeah. Well, Kane. Let me tell you a quick story about Kane

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5, because I was about. When I was learning what I was doing.

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I started in 88, so it took me to the early 90s. I kind of

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understand how to buy and sell all that. And I went to Vons in my

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neighborhood. And at that time, Cane 5 was

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distributed by Vintage, Vintage something.

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Kelly Stockton. Go ahead and open that. And

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I went to this wine section to check it out like I always do. And

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it's got, it's got six bottles of cane five and it was 3.99 a bottle.

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Oh, my God. And I thought maybe there was a mis. Mark. Yeah. I thought,

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there's something wrong. And I, I, maybe it was a different version. It was a

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different name. So I left the store, had my giant cell phone, you

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know, with the luggage thing next to it. I call the guy, I go,

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how much? What's the case? One of, you know, wholesale for K5. He

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goes, that's 265 or something. Like, like what? Okay. So

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I went in, I bought everything they had and it was.

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And the guy goes, that's a really good deal, huh? This is the cashier. I

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go, yeah, it's all right. They didn't want to turn them on. And by the

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way, do you have any more in the back?

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Which they didn't. And so I got six bottles of Cane five

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for three night, four bucks a bottle. And it became the house pour. My house

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for a couple of weeks and then it was all gone. So that was

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a special wine at the time. It's still made now? Oh, absolutely. Is it?

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I haven't seen it. Cane 5 is still a Bordeaux Mountain

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based blend. Yeah, they've got other products now. I think

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they're, they're doing fairly well. And Spring Mountain, know what a

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classic. It's a, it's a winery. You don't hear about,

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you know, my dad was very proud of selling the wines in the store.

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I have a Magnum of the

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73 or 78 or something in my house. Just

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very special. Yeah. I mean, that

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Spring Mountain Vineyards, my personal opinion is,

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you know, a sleeping giant. There is so much

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historic significance on that property.

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You know, with. I think it's 850 acres or something.

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There's three ghost wineries on it.

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La Perla, Chateau Chevalier, and. And the Spring Mountain Vineyard.

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And I mean, it's just. It's. It's an absolutely

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monumental property to create a

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customer experience, especially as an ambassador here in Napa. Yeah,

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you'll see a lot of great things from that place in the future, I'm sure.

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Yeah, I haven't. It would sort of went dormant. Not dormant, but you didn't hear

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about it. Like my. Like I said, my dad was very proud of having it

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in his collection. So

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we're tasting this 2009. Yeah. And this is a current

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release. You know, this is kind of a special one. My current

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release Right now is 2013. So I brought, you know,

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two wines to me that are performing

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2013, you know, in my current release is

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training wheels. Yeah. There's a lot of astringency. There's a lot of

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composition that needs refinement with time.

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Whereas 2009, you know, here we're coming on,

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you know, almost 15 full years of age. Yeah. That's phenomenal.

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And now you're seeing a wine really start to share

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and reveal the quality of the land and what the intention

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was in. In producing this style of one. Do you still think that your stepfather

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was nuts for having to do this? I don't think

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he was nuts having me do this. I just think that he knew.

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Let me put it to you this way. He wasn't a big fan

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of many of the fruit forward Napa Valley wines, and his

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cellar were great, you know, Burgundy and

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Bordeaux. And so he loved wine with age and

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composition and balance. And he knew the

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pedigree of the land that existed here in Napa. And he

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said, we just got to ferment them dry, put new oak on

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them, and let him age. And the oak is very subtle, but this

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is. The complexity here is amazing. Oh, yeah. I usually

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don't taste wine on these podcasts because. But this is just a special

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idea and not done. And I'm looking at a

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wine that comes. It comes to market with sediment. Yeah. Which is

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pretty amazing. Well, I mean, unfiltered, unfined is,

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you know, to me, the. The purest form and the indicator of extremely

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high quality wine. But the grapes, you can tell the grapes of this? Yeah. I

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mean, in the aging process, you know, the sediment is

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a composition of the health of the wine. Right.

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It's almost like a nourishment, you know, in the breakdown of the sediment, it's

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going to reveal unique flavors and compositions and textures

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that are going to give more complexity to the wine as it

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matures. It used to be. And I can. When I was at the Wine of

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the Month club, I'm talking about early on, when we find a wine like

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I did in 09, it's

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crazy good. I can't remember what the wine was now. And I had to do

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a special video that. With a little code. We had a

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QR code back then and show people

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this sediment idea. The concept of sediment, that's not.

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00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:26,750
It's not a bad thing. It. It tells you the extraction

228
00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:29,230
quality, it tells you the quality of the grapes. It tells you a lot. It

229
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authenticates the wine. Yeah. And they don't. You know, we got some

230
00:14:32,670 --> 00:14:35,590
calls. Yeah, of course, there's a lot of. Stuff in my bottle, my neck, you

231
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:39,020
know, under the cork, we take it out, a little sediment there. But. But this

232
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is fabulous. Well, there's two ways to look at it too many people believe

233
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that fine wine needs to be polished and that a filtration is

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necessary to polish the wine in a way that it is going to

235
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remove some of the substrate and let just the pure nectar of the wine

236
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evolve. I mean, you wouldn't know by the color of this. If this is unfiltered,

237
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it's very clear. And that's 2009. So

238
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how's the market received this idea. And by the way, you only

239
00:15:06,620 --> 00:15:09,980
make this ageable wines now or you have a

240
00:15:10,220 --> 00:15:13,860
sort of a frontline brand that you're making. This is the only wine that I

241
00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:16,540
have. Okay. So you're making these wines, you're holding them for 10 years.

242
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And then the white, the Chardonnay we. Tasted, I think was already 2015.

243
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It's the current release of the Chardonnay Silver

244
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going what? Really following that model of

245
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10 years, you know, with the white, to me, you know, it's

246
00:15:32,740 --> 00:15:36,080
a performance thing. And the

247
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Chardonnay is. Is just magical right now, just with cellar temperature. I'm

248
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not saying chill it down, but, you know, if you

249
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just serve it at cellar temperature, the charm that comes from it is just

250
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,800
magnificent. When for the listeners we met at a tasting

251
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in Los Angeles, I just found out it's the first tasting you ever did.

252
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,080
But I was drawn to the table because of your jacket. And then

253
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because I love that jacket. Remember, all my sport coats that I

254
00:16:03,770 --> 00:16:07,330
have came from my stepfather. Oh, they did. Okay, that's very cool.

255
00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:10,610
And so. But then, then here I am tasting wine

256
00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:15,050
when every wine maker out here now, particularly that

257
00:16:15,050 --> 00:16:18,290
tasting would have been 2020s, 2022s, you know, current

258
00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:22,050
releases, and they're trying to move some volume. And here's somebody I'm talking

259
00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:25,370
to myself now that's willing to hang on to a wine for 10 years. So

260
00:16:25,370 --> 00:16:29,080
when you talk about the expense of owning a winery and selling wine. Yeah,

261
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,680
that's a major part of it. Oh, a major part of it. And

262
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,440
everybody who enjoys a bottle of Kellogg should

263
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,960
tip their glass to my late stepfather because he's the guy

264
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,120
that believed this. And he's also the guy that

265
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knew if I did this that I would absolutely

266
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stand apart from everyone else and that would be the foundation of

267
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,880
my success. So was he an unophile, like

268
00:16:55,790 --> 00:16:59,590
by sort of interest in wine as a younger person? I

269
00:16:59,590 --> 00:17:03,230
mean, it didn't sound like wine was part of your family prior to this,

270
00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:07,310
like. No, it wasn't. It was not part of my blood family at all.

271
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And then for him, collector, just interest.

272
00:17:12,030 --> 00:17:15,670
What was his ambition of it? You know, he was an avid outdoorsman. Oh, he

273
00:17:15,670 --> 00:17:19,150
was. And so he loved fine

274
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dining. He loved game. And

275
00:17:22,930 --> 00:17:26,570
with fine dining and game, you need to have a thoughtful, you know, wine

276
00:17:26,570 --> 00:17:30,410
that, that supports the game and supports the experience. And,

277
00:17:30,410 --> 00:17:33,730
you know, I think because of how he was raised as well, he was just

278
00:17:33,730 --> 00:17:37,490
introduced to a quality of living that, you know, to. Between

279
00:17:37,490 --> 00:17:41,250
you and I, it doesn't even exist anymore. No. Well, I had

280
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:43,850
an interview the other day with a winemaker who's a bow hunter

281
00:17:45,050 --> 00:17:48,900
and same thing, the game was, you know, not only

282
00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:52,620
shoot your own food, but the wine that goes with it,

283
00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:55,980
because it's part of that. Exactly, exactly.

284
00:17:57,020 --> 00:18:00,780
Fascinating. So how has the market received

285
00:18:00,940 --> 00:18:04,659
this? And are you with a distributor downtown down

286
00:18:04,659 --> 00:18:07,980
south? Are you self distributing? Yeah, we're self distributing right now.

287
00:18:09,980 --> 00:18:13,500
The market is accepting

288
00:18:13,500 --> 00:18:17,340
this product and understand that this is the first time and

289
00:18:18,820 --> 00:18:21,657
20, 20,

290
00:18:21,956 --> 00:18:25,420
27 vintages that I'm

291
00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:29,140
actively showing these wines. Is it no wonder we've

292
00:18:29,140 --> 00:18:32,660
never met. And so I'm, I'm going into the, you know, the,

293
00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:35,540
the on and off premise theater.

294
00:18:36,340 --> 00:18:39,940
That's hard with most. Most of the time with zero invitation.

295
00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:43,670
Yeah, especially in the. The, you know,

296
00:18:43,670 --> 00:18:46,750
where we are in the wine world today with sales

297
00:18:47,310 --> 00:18:50,990
distributors don't want anything to do with me. And I

298
00:18:50,990 --> 00:18:53,710
go into, you know, retail shops, I go into

299
00:18:54,190 --> 00:18:56,670
restaurants, and I just say,

300
00:18:58,110 --> 00:19:01,790
this is who I am. This is what I do. And by the way,

301
00:19:01,790 --> 00:19:05,630
this is the vintage I'm showing today. And it's the vintage

302
00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:09,270
that I'm showing today where they give me a double take. And they said, excuse

303
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:12,630
me, did you just say 2013? Did you just say

304
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:16,390
2006? Absolutely. I'll tell you why

305
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:20,230
they say that. I'm a retailer. I was a retailer for 35 years. My first

306
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:24,070
impression was, you're trying to move some old vintages. You

307
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:26,830
know, I'm like, all right, what does he bring me this for? Should be discounted.

308
00:19:26,830 --> 00:19:30,070
It's an old vintage. Yeah. Here you are. Now, this is my current release.

309
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:33,510
Yeah. I mean, as you'll see when you get into my

310
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:36,470
older vintages, and I brought one today.

311
00:19:39,030 --> 00:19:41,650
This is the pinnacle of fine wine. There's something

312
00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:46,210
about these. Both of these vintages, even though one's a 17, one's a nine.

313
00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:51,250
No, no, no, no, no. Sensing this is nine,

314
00:19:51,730 --> 00:19:55,410
this is four. Oh, what I see down here. Oh, member

315
00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:57,810
sin 17. Okay.

316
00:19:59,170 --> 00:20:02,970
I, I, I did taste 100,000 wines in my career. Yeah. Every

317
00:20:02,970 --> 00:20:06,610
Tuesday morning from nine to two, I tasted wines unless I was sick,

318
00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:11,820
and I'm not. This is what I would have thought if you brought these in

319
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:15,180
and put them on the table without me tasting them. He's trying to move all

320
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:18,260
vintages and I'm in a sense, all this

321
00:20:18,340 --> 00:20:21,860
matterization and bottle age, it is not there.

322
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:26,580
It's incredible stylistically. It can exist

323
00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:30,500
in a dry wine. That's why the French, basically, the Europeans have

324
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,870
been so successful in the fine wine area

325
00:20:34,110 --> 00:20:37,750
arena is that there's no sugar. And in the aging

326
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:41,310
process, sugar decays. Yes. And the decay

327
00:20:41,310 --> 00:20:45,070
spoils the charm. It spoils the texture. It spoils,

328
00:20:45,310 --> 00:20:49,069
you know, the life, you know, of many of the wines, I've. Never equated

329
00:20:49,069 --> 00:20:52,790
that, and it makes a ton of sense. Yeah. To the wines I've had recently.

330
00:20:52,790 --> 00:20:56,310
I opened a bottle that was maturized, and I'm like, oh, it seemed

331
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:59,440
premature, but that's what it was. But remember, As a

332
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,160
retailer, 90% of the wines you were probably

333
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,600
sharing with your customers from Napa Valley were food forward

334
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,240
wines. And so you would think about it, you'd go, oh,

335
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,840
this thing typically wouldn't last seven to ten years. This ding

336
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,840
dong's just trying to push old wine. Do you think this.

337
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,400
Well, you mentioned already the current status of

338
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,050
wine in the industry. We're all suffering from, from

339
00:21:27,050 --> 00:21:30,210
sales drops. And, you know, consumerism has changed.

340
00:21:30,690 --> 00:21:34,450
And I have this romantic opinion of what wine is and will be, always

341
00:21:34,450 --> 00:21:37,890
will be. It's been around thousands and thousands of years, so it's not going to

342
00:21:37,890 --> 00:21:41,530
go away, but that someday the, the

343
00:21:41,530 --> 00:21:44,930
generations that we're talking about taste a wine like this

344
00:21:45,890 --> 00:21:48,770
and realize, you know, we've been missing all this time,

345
00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:53,290
or they realize, okay, I get it now. There's something very special about

346
00:21:53,370 --> 00:21:56,890
a wine like this and any fine wine, really a Borro or whatever

347
00:21:58,010 --> 00:22:01,450
that they're missing today. Yeah, a generation

348
00:22:01,610 --> 00:22:05,130
awareness. You know, I think in this country

349
00:22:05,930 --> 00:22:09,450
everyone has a sweet tooth and even the wine industry

350
00:22:09,770 --> 00:22:13,530
has, you know, evolved into respecting

351
00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:16,490
the customer's interest in having wine

352
00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:20,800
taste like fruit. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's a marketable product.

353
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,480
It's what most people are accustomed to. My

354
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,160
father was giving me an opportunity of revealing

355
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,240
what the land can do. And he knew it

356
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,120
and he just wanted the opportunity to champion

357
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,320
an independent, unblended product that was purely

358
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,480
about his last name. Kellum Vineyards.

359
00:22:45,140 --> 00:22:48,660
That was the land, that was what he was proud of. And

360
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:53,380
you know, following his tastes really

361
00:22:53,940 --> 00:22:57,780
in the production of the wine. And he had the financial wherewithal.

362
00:22:58,260 --> 00:23:02,100
Such a noble position. And not only

363
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:05,860
noble, but for you to, not to succumb to the marketing requirements

364
00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:10,020
it takes to turn a quick profit. Not

365
00:23:10,020 --> 00:23:12,740
planting Riesling so you can flip it the next year and all those kinds of

366
00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:16,450
things that go with, with presenting wine like this. I think

367
00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:19,290
it's got staying power. I think that, that the,

368
00:23:20,170 --> 00:23:23,970
the ultimate expression of a wine like this is what gets to your

369
00:23:23,970 --> 00:23:27,610
soul in the first place. If you don't taste

370
00:23:27,610 --> 00:23:31,450
that in your life, you're missing. I 100% agree.

371
00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:35,650
And I, and I won't, I won't fool anyone here, don't I. I

372
00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:39,130
was romanced a little bit by, you know, my friends and their

373
00:23:39,130 --> 00:23:42,890
100 point scores and, you know, their fruit forward styling and,

374
00:23:43,230 --> 00:23:46,750
you know, growing grapes that were extremely dehydrated and,

375
00:23:46,910 --> 00:23:50,150
you know, having all these meltdowns and fermentation. Believe me,

376
00:23:50,150 --> 00:23:53,470
I've done all of it. And I respect

377
00:23:53,630 --> 00:23:56,990
everybody that gave me direction in the industry. You know,

378
00:23:57,390 --> 00:24:00,990
Robert Mondavi was, you know, one of the people and it always

379
00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:04,350
sticks in my head. Napa Valley is one of the only

380
00:24:04,430 --> 00:24:08,190
places in the world where so many styles of wine can be

381
00:24:08,190 --> 00:24:11,790
made well. And, you know, it's really a

382
00:24:11,790 --> 00:24:14,070
testament to this geography

383
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:18,910
that, you know, I can follow this style. My friend can follow his

384
00:24:18,910 --> 00:24:22,630
style. Everyone can influence the composition and the experience

385
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:26,470
they want the customer to have. This is just an

386
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:30,230
experience that my father. What does it want

387
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:34,150
customers to have? And it's. It's brilliant. And it's

388
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,520
refreshing. Not refreshing in its coif. Ability. Refreshing in its

389
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,200
thought and the thought it takes to do this. And you

390
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,640
mentioned it already, but I think I have to say it again. That is,

391
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,960
you do taste where this is from. And it's not

392
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,720
easy in Napa because. Because of the sugar content, because we leave them

393
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,800
a little bit, you know, whatever it is, the bricks are higher.

394
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,040
It's harder to tell the difference between the different appellations. You know, Bordeaux,

395
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,460
it's. If you taste enough, you can start to get it. But I have trouble

396
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:08,860
with the valley floor. The Rutherford versus the Oakville versus the

397
00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:13,180
Calistoga as well either. But this is very

398
00:25:13,180 --> 00:25:16,860
expressive of the philosophy.

399
00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:20,700
Absolutely. You know, what makes the. I think the site

400
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:24,340
unique and all that western foothill in Oakville.

401
00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:27,940
That's why so many of these, you know, extremely reputable

402
00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:31,760
producers, you know, you know, some of which are contiguous

403
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,440
with the family property. There's a

404
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,240
wonderful thread of acidity. Yes. And if you manage the

405
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,040
acidity in the wines that you're making from that western foothill, you

406
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,320
can create wines that have an ageable

407
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,400
quality to them, freshness to them, and you're seeing it express

408
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,160
in the glass. You know, 2004, that's

409
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,980
20 years old. There's still horsepower in it

410
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:01,420
to continue to mature, to continue to create composition

411
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:04,980
and depth. I'm so impressed with this. And I

412
00:26:05,060 --> 00:26:08,860
really thought it was a novelty when we were standing there

413
00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:12,380
at Republique. And. It's not a novelty. It's a

414
00:26:12,380 --> 00:26:15,980
philosophy. It's a philosophy. You know, I was. Had a

415
00:26:15,980 --> 00:26:19,700
conversation with Violet Girgis yesterday, and. Oh, crazy. I love those

416
00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:23,060
stories because it's so authentically Napa.

417
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,560
And she said something that I thought was really interesting because we always talk about

418
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,200
the lifestyle of Napa, the lifestyle of wine. And she goes, it's

419
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,600
not a lifestyle. And I think. And I'll tell you what she did say,

420
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,160
we come up here chasing a lifestyle, you're in the wrong

421
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,320
business. Like, you see this lifestyle, you think that you're going to have this big

422
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,440
chateau and, you know, by the, you know, buy the best winemaker you can buy,

423
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,040
and you're going to have this unbelievable lifestyle. It's not. It's a life.

424
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,480
Yep. It's not a lifestyle. And if you don't see it as

425
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,320
life, creating life in a glass Living what

426
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,880
you're doing, then you've. You've missed the target with

427
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,920
this, with what wine should be and what it is. Yeah, I mean,

428
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,400
you know, I. My opinion of, you know, being

429
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,000
here in Napa is that you really

430
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,600
don't own anything. You have an opportunity,

431
00:27:17,270 --> 00:27:21,030
and it's your responsibility to champion the opportunity through

432
00:27:21,030 --> 00:27:24,310
your lifetime. So the next generation has the same

433
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:28,110
opportunity, the same interest, the same infrastructure to

434
00:27:28,110 --> 00:27:31,870
continue their journey. And maybe who. You know,

435
00:27:31,870 --> 00:27:35,510
I have four kids. You know, I crossed my fingers that,

436
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:38,710
you know, one of these kids is going to have some interest of

437
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:43,230
what it is that I was so passionate about if I introduce the

438
00:27:43,230 --> 00:27:46,710
concepts to them. Great. How old is the oldest?

439
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:50,870
14. So that was a conversation I just had with

440
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:54,670
Auguste Sebastiani August. You know, so many

441
00:27:54,670 --> 00:27:58,390
times they come into their young adulthood, they're

442
00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:01,830
not expecting to do this, but it gets to them.

443
00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:05,830
Because your passion gets to them. Absolutely. Eventually they realize what it

444
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:09,630
is. And I was telling. I use Clovis Tanger from Tatonger

445
00:28:09,630 --> 00:28:12,510
Champagne as an example. He was. He went to college, he was going to be

446
00:28:12,510 --> 00:28:15,750
a businessman, got his mba, and then all of a sudden he's back at the

447
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:19,350
winery, you know, and making wines again. And I think that's

448
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:22,510
really a testimony to this industry,

449
00:28:23,230 --> 00:28:26,430
to your ability to connect to other people,

450
00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:30,270
because it's got to make you feel good. Oh, I mean, let's just talk about

451
00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:34,070
that for a second. At Republic, you're standing there, it's hot, you're standing, your. Your

452
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:37,830
booth is coming in the sun, and you're listening to who knows how many different

453
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:41,580
stories from these guys are doing this. Sure. But it make you feel good when

454
00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:45,140
you heard that comment, like, whoa, what is this?

455
00:28:46,260 --> 00:28:49,620
You know, the aha moment with all of my customers,

456
00:28:49,860 --> 00:28:53,580
you know, when they come from, you know, enjoying all of Napa

457
00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:57,180
Valley's experience, and they've been to some of the best wineries and they've

458
00:28:57,180 --> 00:29:01,020
tasted the three and $400 bottles of wine. But they went to

459
00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:03,940
come to the tasting theater that we had, and.

460
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:10,750
They. Have that realization of something that is absolutely unique.

461
00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:13,390
But even more so, they could

462
00:29:15,310 --> 00:29:18,750
really appreciate that level of passion and dedication that I had

463
00:29:19,470 --> 00:29:23,150
in introducing the wine and spending the time and answering the

464
00:29:23,150 --> 00:29:26,950
questions. Because at the end of the day, I want people to

465
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:30,190
absolutely remember the experience that with

466
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,280
went with Kellum Vineyards. So this is your first

467
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,760
soiree into the three tier system? This is my first soiree into

468
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,560
the three tier system. You know, it's

469
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,280
a fairly complicated story. You know, in the Last three

470
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,040
years. And it will be one of the bumps in my

471
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,640
lifetime's road. Right. But

472
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,200
I've been through some, you know, some family upset in the recent past.

473
00:29:59,620 --> 00:30:02,500
And at the end of the day, I chose

474
00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:08,020
the inventory and the wine that my father

475
00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:12,900
enabled me to create. Okay. And I walked away

476
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:16,980
from the actual vineyard property. Wow. And the partnership with

477
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:21,260
my mother and my brother. Wow. Well, that was a serious thing that

478
00:30:21,260 --> 00:30:24,580
happened. Yeah. So it was a very, it's been very tumultuous.

479
00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:29,620
Voluntary bankruptcies and very,

480
00:30:29,620 --> 00:30:33,260
very sorry to hear that. Unique process the last three years. But,

481
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:37,260
you know, as of January 1st, I'm

482
00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:40,820
a one man show. This January last. January last this.

483
00:30:40,820 --> 00:30:44,580
January 1st, 2025. Wow. I'm a one man

484
00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:48,060
show. I have all the wine from 27

485
00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:51,580
vintages. So close to 45,000 cases.

486
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:55,670
Wow. More than 10,000

487
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:59,590
large format bottles ranging from magnums, 3

488
00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:03,350
liters, 6 liters. And

489
00:31:03,510 --> 00:31:07,270
now it's time for a new chapter. Yeah. And I haven't really

490
00:31:07,270 --> 00:31:11,070
decided exactly what it's going to look like right

491
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:14,830
now. I'm just going to let this first year pass and share

492
00:31:14,830 --> 00:31:18,390
the wine and develop the interests and keep my customers,

493
00:31:19,780 --> 00:31:23,140
you know, my membership, keep them

494
00:31:23,140 --> 00:31:26,260
happy and then we'll see in

495
00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:30,060
2026. How did you do that then? Is there

496
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:33,660
a facility? Yeah. Or was there a facility? Beautiful, beautiful winery

497
00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:37,300
at 360s in Fondale Lane. Okay. So people came and they

498
00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:41,020
tasted wine, they joined the club. Correct. And the DTC side of things, of

499
00:31:41,020 --> 00:31:44,620
course is always the preferred methodology for a winery because it's full

500
00:31:44,620 --> 00:31:47,630
margin. Right. You can get what good snip. But it's not always.

501
00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:52,910
It seems to me in my experience of all this that it's

502
00:31:52,910 --> 00:31:55,470
just, it's sort of a two, if not three legged stool.

503
00:31:56,350 --> 00:32:00,190
Certainly DTC is important, but. And there are wineries that survive

504
00:32:00,510 --> 00:32:04,190
on purely dtc, but they also have to pay for all

505
00:32:04,190 --> 00:32:07,070
the facilities or you know, the experiential side

506
00:32:07,630 --> 00:32:11,430
driving to this point. But you have to have the three tier

507
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:15,220
stuff. You, you sacrifice margin but you know, you also alleviate some of

508
00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:18,340
the responsibility. But right now Southern

509
00:32:19,060 --> 00:32:21,140
and RDC is leaving Southern California.

510
00:32:22,740 --> 00:32:26,340
Are you looking for a small, smaller distributor to

511
00:32:26,580 --> 00:32:29,780
pick the brand up or you still want to do it? Right? You know, I,

512
00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:33,380
I have in the last six months developed

513
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:37,340
five distributor relationships. Oh, good. So I'm getting out

514
00:32:37,340 --> 00:32:40,900
there. They're mid size and really

515
00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:44,620
it's just like going into on and off premise. I

516
00:32:44,620 --> 00:32:48,100
walk in the door, I introduce the wine and

517
00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:50,460
it's. They get it or they don't.

518
00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:55,500
And 100% of them absolutely got it and said, you're not going to

519
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:59,140
get out of this room until we've got a deal. Because

520
00:32:59,140 --> 00:33:02,740
we want to support what you've done, what your

521
00:33:02,740 --> 00:33:05,980
family's done. I'm glad to hear that. And we want to champion the,

522
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:11,290
the customer experience was something that is so absolutely unique and

523
00:33:11,290 --> 00:33:15,050
special. It sounds like a little humility in our industry still. Oh,

524
00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:18,970
what's up with that? Well, you know, hey, there's still passion out there,

525
00:33:19,290 --> 00:33:22,970
you know, at a good. Steakhouse, you know, or a good restaurant.

526
00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:26,410
Absolutely. And remember that is, you know, my,

527
00:33:26,650 --> 00:33:30,450
I keep talking about my, my, my stepfather, but, you know, my,

528
00:33:30,450 --> 00:33:34,260
my stepfather, he would, he loved

529
00:33:34,260 --> 00:33:37,860
to go to restaurants because of the theater. You know, he

530
00:33:37,860 --> 00:33:41,580
wasn't, he didn't want to look at the menu. He wanted the chef to make

531
00:33:41,580 --> 00:33:45,100
what he was most proud of because of the ingredients he had at the time.

532
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:48,259
Right. He loved walking into a restaurant and having,

533
00:33:49,140 --> 00:33:52,820
you know, a first name basis with the server and having his cocktail

534
00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:55,860
there ready for him and knowing exactly what that was.

535
00:33:56,660 --> 00:34:00,470
So that's, I mean, we all like. I, I think

536
00:34:00,470 --> 00:34:03,670
it's human nature. You want to go to those places. I even take my own

537
00:34:03,670 --> 00:34:07,470
vermouth. So if I go to this restaurant, my hometown, they

538
00:34:07,470 --> 00:34:10,350
know when they make my gin martini, they use a. My vermouth. They have a

539
00:34:10,350 --> 00:34:13,270
bottle of my vermouth there. They don't use. I love it. I love it. And

540
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:16,190
when I go to this other place down by the beach area and I make.

541
00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:19,950
I usually have Manhattan's there, I have my vermouth there, they use it for that.

542
00:34:20,350 --> 00:34:23,539
And we all want that comfort level, every

543
00:34:24,899 --> 00:34:27,779
sort of. The hospitality of that. Absolutely. And that's what this

544
00:34:29,219 --> 00:34:32,899
is. You got to be recognized in this world. And you know, when you're in

545
00:34:32,899 --> 00:34:36,739
the luxury space, it's all about how you recognize the

546
00:34:36,739 --> 00:34:40,459
customer. You want to make them feel comfortable, but

547
00:34:40,459 --> 00:34:44,099
you also, at the end of the day, you're working for them. And so it's

548
00:34:44,099 --> 00:34:47,939
really, really important that the attention to detail and you're putting

549
00:34:47,939 --> 00:34:51,580
your best foot forward in everything that you do for them. How so that on

550
00:34:51,580 --> 00:34:54,740
your. You got the club members, you got. The cases, but I do. You got

551
00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:58,540
the club members. I got the club members too. And who's shipping these? I'm doing

552
00:34:58,540 --> 00:35:00,660
all of it. I know what that's like.

553
00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:06,340
No joke. I know it's not a joke because I used to pack and ship.

554
00:35:06,740 --> 00:35:10,460
You know, we had the club. I finally bought a machine that

555
00:35:10,460 --> 00:35:14,220
Would create the box and pause the box until you loaded it with

556
00:35:14,220 --> 00:35:17,800
the wine and the inners and then sent it on for taping. And it took

557
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,480
that kind of effort because we

558
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,240
were at that. At one time, we were shipping a lot of wine. But

559
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:28,280
I get it. I mean, this is a whole cycle. The one thing you learned

560
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,040
about me is I absolutely love to work. So

561
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,800
you're packing a living room. I've done that a few times. Your

562
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,280
wife's like, what the hell? I don't know. She's my. I mean, if there

563
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,960
is my greatest supporter

564
00:35:43,820 --> 00:35:47,660
behind, you know, my pop was. Is my

565
00:35:47,660 --> 00:35:51,420
wife. She is. She's absolutely the person that has

566
00:35:51,420 --> 00:35:55,180
enabled me to go through, really, the last

567
00:35:55,420 --> 00:35:59,100
10, 15 years of a very challenging existence.

568
00:35:59,340 --> 00:36:03,140
So when you got married, you were already doing this? Oh, yeah, 100%. I

569
00:36:03,140 --> 00:36:06,260
was 12 years into it. It's like, honey, you. You know, you knew what I

570
00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:09,980
was doing. Honey, I was. I was 12 years into it. She was a GM

571
00:36:09,980 --> 00:36:12,980
of a small winery here in Napa. Oh, didn't you? And when she took the

572
00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:16,720
position, she did an open house within the industry, and I went as my

573
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:19,960
family's representative. Really? Yeah. That's how you met?

574
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,640
Yep. That's so cool. Yeah. Well, that's good to have somebody that

575
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,160
understands the industry, understands the marketplace. We were. My

576
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,880
wife's a CPA by trade. We worked together for 25 years.

577
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,280
And I'm the spatial creative guy that's doing the marketing. And she's like,

578
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,920
hey, you're spending too much money type person. But what's interesting,

579
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,900
when we sold the company two years ago, thank goodness

580
00:36:45,540 --> 00:36:49,180
she's. She realized now they're selling it

581
00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:52,020
again, the people that bought it. So it's not

582
00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:56,580
and interesting. She looks at me because she understands

583
00:36:56,580 --> 00:36:59,980
everything, you know, she goes, we could probably take this back and make it work

584
00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:03,140
again. I go, look, we're not doing that.

585
00:37:03,620 --> 00:37:06,180
Turn around, CEO. Do it. We're not doing that because.

586
00:37:07,470 --> 00:37:10,670
Well, maybe she wants to do it. Well, then you gotta just support her. I

587
00:37:10,670 --> 00:37:13,630
gotta figure that out, because when I go back, I'll talk to her about it.

588
00:37:13,630 --> 00:37:17,070
But one of the reasons we closed on

589
00:37:17,070 --> 00:37:19,710
31 March, closed the doors, was

590
00:37:20,670 --> 00:37:24,430
38 more tax returns due the next quarter. Because

591
00:37:24,430 --> 00:37:27,790
we did our own compliance. Sure. We did everything. She did all the taxes.

592
00:37:28,670 --> 00:37:32,230
And I'm like, okay, I'm okay with that. Because they didn't buy it till

593
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:35,880
maybe. So they actually missed two or three months of shipments, which

594
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,480
was worth some money. But I didn't understand that. But Anyway, they're selling it again

595
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,200
already. And we were in the fighting varietal price range. We were talking about 12

596
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,360
to 22 dollars a bottle. That's the range we were in.

597
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,480
And they bought everything. They bought all my inventory,

598
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,680
the list. I didn't. I didn't sell the company because they didn't want to be

599
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,320
responsible for the cash flow and make a commitment. I go, here's what it's

600
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,800
doing and here's all the stuff that make it work. Yep. And you just take

601
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,480
it and it's yours tomorrow. But they didn't take

602
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,080
any of my good stuff. I had like 3,000 bottles

603
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,400
of first, you know, first classified growth,

604
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,480
fifth through first grand cru burgundies. Premier Cru Burgundies. You

605
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,960
didn't ask why either? No. You know, I'm like, okay, so I had to build

606
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,680
a cellar. I didn't have a cellar at home because I had a 30, 000

607
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,490
bottle seller at the office. Right. So now I'm drinking some

608
00:38:26,490 --> 00:38:30,330
really good stuff, and I love it. And I

609
00:38:30,330 --> 00:38:33,890
still buy stuff because I sell my licenses. But the point of that was

610
00:38:34,770 --> 00:38:38,610
it was really nice to have her there and

611
00:38:38,610 --> 00:38:42,130
understand what we did not come home

612
00:38:42,290 --> 00:38:46,050
from work and she'd done auditing somebody's taxes as

613
00:38:46,050 --> 00:38:49,330
an accountant versus auditing our books, understanding where

614
00:38:50,130 --> 00:38:52,680
we were spending money or. And she'd alert me to, hey, you know what? She

615
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,480
sent a Facebook lecture. Yep. So how are you?

616
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,720
Besides showing up the Republique and pouring off wines,

617
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,560
are you doing anything marketing wise, like Facebook, Instagram, all.

618
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:08,400
All that rabbit hole stuff? Nothing yet. I mean,

619
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,320
about the kids. They should be doing it. You know, they do all that. My.

620
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,160
My wife is extremely experienced in the. The

621
00:39:17,370 --> 00:39:20,410
online theater. So she has amazing.

622
00:39:21,450 --> 00:39:24,250
She's. It's incredible. She actually, during.

623
00:39:26,330 --> 00:39:29,610
During COVID it, did an online

624
00:39:29,850 --> 00:39:33,610
digital marketing course at Harvard

625
00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:38,290
and. Oh, yeah, right. And she absolutely

626
00:39:38,290 --> 00:39:42,050
fell in love with it. And so

627
00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:45,360
when it comes to doing the digital side, she is

628
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,440
100% in control. But again, you know, I'm taking this

629
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,120
first year. Are you paying attention to that? I trying to.

630
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,320
I can barely. You know, walking and chewing gum for

631
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,800
me is still a challenge, but when it comes to the digital

632
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,520
theater, she will be in charge of all of that.

633
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,160
She's in charge of all the. The, you know, allocations.

634
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,240
She runs the business for me. And I'm the. I've

635
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:15,840
always been a salesman. I love people. I love traveling. I love getting

636
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,680
out there. There is not a door that I'm afraid to

637
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,400
walk into. A great lesson from your father, your stepfather. Yeah,

638
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,040
absolutely. Well, you know, he's always sitting in the back of my, in on my

639
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,760
ear over here, telling me, you get in there, what are you waiting for? You

640
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,480
can get in there right now and you just, you go after it and

641
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,880
you, you own it. And I, I'm so fortunate to believe

642
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,120
passionately about the products

643
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:45,240
and be able to pour this for customers and walk in, you know,

644
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,040
sight unseen and saying, this is who I am. This is what I'm doing, and

645
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,880
I'm excited about it. And this is why it's contagious. They

646
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,920
bring two glasses down. You want to drink? No, no, no. I'm working for you.

647
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,720
Let me pour this wine. If I'm a psalm of any repute,

648
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,800
at least in my own mind, you know, this has to be on

649
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,860
a list just for the experience of saying, hey, Listen, I've got this 04

650
00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:11,140
cab from Napa and it's going to blow your socks off.

651
00:41:11,460 --> 00:41:14,900
And let people, the ones that allow the Somme to do that. Oh yeah,

652
00:41:16,420 --> 00:41:20,100
100. Or I tell them, you know, these wines are so

653
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:23,940
unique that it's going to tell a different story on your list.

654
00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:27,580
So don't put it on your list, just bring it in. Because you already

655
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:31,060
know the customers you're going to sell to by hand because you're going to have

656
00:41:31,060 --> 00:41:34,680
that wine in the back, right? That's not on the list. And

657
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,400
it's just for them. They should pour off a sample just to let you know

658
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,000
what's going on. My wife, like, my wife is very peculiar about her wine. So

659
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,520
she just. If you want a Napa Valley Cabernet fan, this is my

660
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,280
wife Bordeaux. I can get past her. Anything that's got

661
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,760
Sarah Marved or Grenache, I can't get past her. I try,

662
00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:56,440
I sneak stuff in a glass and then she goes, what is this? There's some

663
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,720
funk in those things, man. And it's a, it's an acquired taste for sure.

664
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,570
Like this, she's, she'd adore it. So

665
00:42:05,450 --> 00:42:08,650
in this current stage of marketing, in the current stage of

666
00:42:11,290 --> 00:42:14,970
the generations that are trying to learn about wine or may not be trying to

667
00:42:14,970 --> 00:42:18,450
learn about wine, and we are in a stock, we're in a tough situation when

668
00:42:18,450 --> 00:42:20,530
it comes to wine. And I think it's going to come around. I think it

669
00:42:20,530 --> 00:42:24,090
always will. But it seems to be the name of the game is

670
00:42:27,130 --> 00:42:30,650
experience experiential. And for you, since you don't have the winery

671
00:42:30,970 --> 00:42:34,810
to entertain people, it would be then giving that experience

672
00:42:34,970 --> 00:42:38,570
online. Like, your wife's job is to let them understand the

673
00:42:38,570 --> 00:42:41,770
story you just told me virtually somehow,

674
00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:46,010
and let them get connected to the story. Absolutely.

675
00:42:46,330 --> 00:42:50,050
And that's what it's about. Because otherwise. And this. I've said this all

676
00:42:50,050 --> 00:42:53,730
the time. The story can't be. I got this for 15

677
00:42:53,730 --> 00:42:56,970
bucks on the Internet. That's not a story. That's not a story.

678
00:42:57,290 --> 00:43:01,090
There's no passion. And, you know, I think people follow you because you

679
00:43:01,090 --> 00:43:04,840
have credibility in the industry. You've been doing this for, how would you

680
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,440
say, 450, something like that? Years,

681
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,920
no episode. I mean, you've been doing this a long time. And so there's a

682
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,480
following of people that absolutely looks forward to hearing what it is that

683
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,160
you're experiencing. They want to hear that they don't have the convenience to

684
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,840
experience. Right. That's right. That's a really good point. And. And, you know,

685
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,680
so today, you meeting me, this is our first date. Right.

686
00:43:28,100 --> 00:43:31,380
We're really just scratching the surface. I haven't even shared

687
00:43:31,860 --> 00:43:35,540
95% of the stories that got me

688
00:43:35,940 --> 00:43:39,460
to you drinking the glass of wine that you have right now.

689
00:43:40,020 --> 00:43:43,460
And so there's an amazing history and there's amazing experience

690
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:47,380
and tradition and passion that went

691
00:43:47,380 --> 00:43:50,740
into producing these wines here in, you know, our nation's

692
00:43:50,740 --> 00:43:54,550
greatest, I'll say it, greatest place to grow

693
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:57,710
Cabernet Sauvignon. This the nose in this.

694
00:43:59,790 --> 00:44:02,990
Somebody has to come with smelling podcasts, because

695
00:44:04,430 --> 00:44:08,230
you can't. The only way to experience this is the way we're experiencing

696
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:11,470
it. 100 nose on the glass and understand this

697
00:44:11,470 --> 00:44:15,230
complexity. And this is a very important piece. And we're almost done here.

698
00:44:15,630 --> 00:44:19,360
45 minutes already. And this

699
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,040
is happening now with these two wines, this 09 Cab

700
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,640
and this 04 Cab. But I was at a Bordeaux

701
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,800
tasting a few weeks ago, and we tasted through

702
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,960
contemporary vintages of the Bordeaux. Can't remember which

703
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,880
chateau, but they got to a bar sack

704
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,880
and, you know, bar sack for the listeners of

705
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,800
rotted white grapes, you know, in a very specific region

706
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,620
of France that makes very sweet dessert wine. But I

707
00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:53,260
put my nose in the glass, and I was so struck

708
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:56,940
with emotion. You can't define it all the time. Interesting

709
00:44:57,260 --> 00:45:00,500
that I had to stop and I looked at the lecture and I said, this

710
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:04,220
is one of the most emotional experiences I've ever had with a wine. And I

711
00:45:04,220 --> 00:45:07,820
don't even necessarily gravitate toward dessert wines. I understand them, but I don't

712
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:11,580
necessarily taste them all the time. And that's happening right now.

713
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:16,390
Like, I can't I can't stop putting it down to smell what's next.

714
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:20,070
That's the biggest compliment I got all week. It's huge. It's huge that

715
00:45:20,070 --> 00:45:23,150
way and that. And that's the part of, we hope, as you and I in

716
00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:25,830
this industry, a consumer one day

717
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:30,390
realizes there's something different about this. This and other

718
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:34,190
wines, of course, that. That are different than all the stuff they've tasted at the

719
00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:37,710
market, all the wines that they had at friend's house, all the people that said,

720
00:45:37,710 --> 00:45:40,730
I got this for 12 bucks, but, wow,

721
00:45:41,370 --> 00:45:43,770
this is. What is the retail on this?

722
00:45:44,970 --> 00:45:48,290
That's 150. Okay. So I tasted the wine yesterday. It was

723
00:45:48,290 --> 00:45:52,010
185. Nowhere near as complex

724
00:45:52,010 --> 00:45:55,610
or interesting as this. 2004 is pushing to

725
00:45:55,770 --> 00:45:59,490
250. It's worth it. I know it's hard to say.

726
00:45:59,490 --> 00:46:02,970
It's 20 years old. You know, what I'll say about the

727
00:46:04,650 --> 00:46:08,230
tasting experience that you and I are having and how

728
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:11,950
unique it is, is that most

729
00:46:11,950 --> 00:46:15,670
people aren't accustomed to tasting wines that have 15 and

730
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:18,550
20 years of age. And

731
00:46:19,270 --> 00:46:23,030
when you have that emotional experience about wine, it's your mind

732
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:26,910
really sharing with you that I understand what it is that

733
00:46:26,910 --> 00:46:30,550
you're smelling and you're tasting. Right. But I can't define it because

734
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:33,800
it's so complex. It's too complex. And it becomes that

735
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,520
aha moment, that this is something very, very charming,

736
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,520
very intentional. One of the differences,

737
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,600
this chasm between you and I being able to do that, and we can't describe

738
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,160
it. I mean, I don't consider myself the greatest descriptor guy in the world.

739
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,760
I'm actually better with structure and a wine than I am with

740
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,440
describing blueberries and blackberries and all that. And that

741
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,480
tends to be the intimidating part of people. Like, I don't understand what you're saying.

742
00:47:02,260 --> 00:47:05,860
And it goes like this. I've been with people. We've been to tastings. The

743
00:47:05,860 --> 00:47:09,140
same wine, same grape, same vintage, two different

744
00:47:09,220 --> 00:47:12,980
vineyards in Napa. And being

745
00:47:12,980 --> 00:47:16,660
accused of, like, Right. Like what you're saying

746
00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:20,300
is. And I said, well, let's back up. You can tell these two

747
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:24,060
wines are different. Yes. Yes, I see they're different. Well, you're on

748
00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:27,820
your way, right? I can't describe all. That's it. And

749
00:47:27,820 --> 00:47:31,140
who the hell cares what you think anyway, Right? That's really the point. Who cares?

750
00:47:31,340 --> 00:47:34,500
As long as you understand there's something very interesting about this. At the end of

751
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:38,180
the day, you know, I will never, ever talk at

752
00:47:38,180 --> 00:47:41,980
a wine. Right. If you want to hear me share

753
00:47:42,380 --> 00:47:46,220
what my experience in the glass is, I'll tell you what it is.

754
00:47:46,220 --> 00:47:49,580
Right? But at the end of the day, it's all my.

755
00:47:49,820 --> 00:47:53,580
It's only my interpretation. It's your unique. Correct.

756
00:47:53,660 --> 00:47:57,420
And you have your experience and your interpretation. Remember, there's

757
00:47:57,420 --> 00:48:01,210
nothing. There's no right or wrong. There's. That's right. And

758
00:48:01,610 --> 00:48:04,210
because they're talking about this is what happens on the Internet and maybe your wife

759
00:48:04,210 --> 00:48:08,050
has seen this, being digitally connected. We

760
00:48:08,050 --> 00:48:11,890
need to change the language of wine. I'm like, why? Because the

761
00:48:11,890 --> 00:48:15,649
language is going to change generationally anyway. Yeah. And I

762
00:48:15,649 --> 00:48:18,490
read a lot of articles from the 70s,

763
00:48:19,690 --> 00:48:23,410
primarily the magazine, from Les

764
00:48:23,410 --> 00:48:27,100
amid events. And it's really fascinating because my dad would

765
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:30,900
cringe at the stuff I would say, just like he would cringe at the stuff

766
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:34,660
the generation before him would say and the generation after us will say

767
00:48:34,660 --> 00:48:38,140
stuff that we won't understand either. So changing, deliberately

768
00:48:38,140 --> 00:48:41,580
changing the language of wine isn't going to work because it's going to change on

769
00:48:41,580 --> 00:48:45,220
its own. The millennials will have their own descriptors. I think

770
00:48:45,220 --> 00:48:49,060
Gary Vee was talking about Captain Crunch and, you know, and Froot Loops when

771
00:48:49,060 --> 00:48:52,870
he's doing Chardonnay. So that's always going to change. It's just going to.

772
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:56,710
That's going to evolve. But the experience of an

773
00:48:56,710 --> 00:49:00,510
honest wine, my favorite term, is never going to

774
00:49:00,510 --> 00:49:04,030
change, whether you can describe it or not. I mean, you look at all this

775
00:49:04,030 --> 00:49:06,110
digital stuff that's going on and

776
00:49:07,950 --> 00:49:10,990
it's two dimensional, it's not three dimensional.

777
00:49:12,110 --> 00:49:15,550
And there is. The two

778
00:49:15,550 --> 00:49:19,260
dimensional experience is something that you

779
00:49:19,260 --> 00:49:22,700
look at but you don't participate in.

780
00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:27,340
And I remember going through Covid and doing my online wine

781
00:49:27,340 --> 00:49:31,140
tastings with my customers and having all the screens and

782
00:49:31,140 --> 00:49:33,820
everybody BSing and trying to talk at one time.

783
00:49:35,180 --> 00:49:39,020
And the wines were fabulous. That's so fun. We should be doing this. We

784
00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:42,380
were remembering, you know, what we were doing before, you know,

785
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:45,870
the virus came, but it still

786
00:49:46,030 --> 00:49:49,630
wasn't. There was no charm, there was no

787
00:49:49,630 --> 00:49:53,310
personality, there was no grace. And I think,

788
00:49:54,510 --> 00:49:58,190
I know people are going to get

789
00:49:58,190 --> 00:50:01,550
bored of just looking it up. Yeah.

790
00:50:01,790 --> 00:50:05,190
And people, the luxury, the

791
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:07,550
premium experience will be

792
00:50:08,830 --> 00:50:12,340
at the place with the people with the product

793
00:50:12,980 --> 00:50:16,580
and it will be that authentic time. You can't

794
00:50:16,580 --> 00:50:19,620
fake being here. No.

795
00:50:20,180 --> 00:50:23,900
And that will become people, I think, I

796
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:27,740
think people will. That will become a quality of life

797
00:50:27,740 --> 00:50:30,980
that they'll spend, they'll pay for.

798
00:50:31,380 --> 00:50:34,820
And I believe it is an expectation of how it is that they will

799
00:50:34,980 --> 00:50:38,120
validate how they live those

800
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,280
special times. You know, it's so interesting you said that,

801
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,960
because no matter what people say about what's happening in the industry and the

802
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,520
Gen Z's and all that, people come to

803
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,160
Napa Valley, they go to Temecula, they go to Bordeaux, they go to Burgundy.

804
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,600
Not because it's a destination of. Of like

805
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,380
Disneyland, they go there because it's a. They

806
00:51:02,380 --> 00:51:05,100
want to attempt to learn or understand or experience

807
00:51:07,020 --> 00:51:10,700
that environment. And that. That's always been that way.

808
00:51:10,860 --> 00:51:14,380
It always will be that way. And it's like no other product in the world

809
00:51:15,180 --> 00:51:18,980
has that mystique and attraction, despite all the naysayers and all the

810
00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:22,740
contemporary marketeers. And I had this conversation

811
00:51:22,740 --> 00:51:25,660
yesterday with Violet. Like I said, Violet Gurgich.

812
00:51:26,540 --> 00:51:30,130
It's. It's not that much different than it was 6,000 years ago.

813
00:51:30,690 --> 00:51:34,210
No, right. Chemistry wise,

814
00:51:34,370 --> 00:51:38,170
it's 90%. Yeah. So what is it

815
00:51:38,170 --> 00:51:41,970
that hits the human soul, the intellect

816
00:51:42,050 --> 00:51:45,490
and the soul, that can't be defined. We can't

817
00:51:45,490 --> 00:51:49,250
define what's happening in this vine right here. It's people to people.

818
00:51:50,130 --> 00:51:53,490
It's not screen to people. It's people to people.

819
00:51:53,810 --> 00:51:57,200
It's making an effort. It's going after it. It's being

820
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,880
enthusiastic. And those are all qualities that

821
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,720
I have as a. An ambassador of Kellum Vineyards. You

822
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,880
do. When I go out there and I share my products with people,

823
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,840
they're like, there's something about you. You got a cool

824
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,840
jacket on. You know, that's all right, too. That was a good jacket. Sorry I

825
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,560
didn't wear a jacket today. Well, I say that I

826
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,210
think I wrote you the email I collected. I collected

827
00:52:22,290 --> 00:52:24,130
not vintage jackets like that one, but

828
00:52:26,130 --> 00:52:29,730
pretty elaborate jackets through various sources.

829
00:52:29,890 --> 00:52:33,690
Like, I'd go to Vegas. I go to the basement of Macy's, and

830
00:52:33,690 --> 00:52:37,370
they have all those Vegas jackets. Amazing. And my wife's like, are you

831
00:52:37,370 --> 00:52:41,210
buying another jacket? I go, but just. It's just cool. And I can. I

832
00:52:41,210 --> 00:52:45,010
can do it. I get away with it. It's an. It's a. It's a terrible

833
00:52:45,010 --> 00:52:48,660
addiction, I'll tell you. You know, this was my father in a

834
00:52:48,660 --> 00:52:52,420
nutshell. Oh, really? So five o'? Clock? Really? He would

835
00:52:52,420 --> 00:52:56,060
dress every day. Tuxedo

836
00:52:56,060 --> 00:52:59,660
pants, bedroom slippers, an open

837
00:52:59,660 --> 00:53:03,260
tuxedo shirt and ascot. Come on. He'd sit in the formal

838
00:53:03,260 --> 00:53:06,860
living room. He'd sit with his dogs. He'd have hors d',

839
00:53:06,860 --> 00:53:10,700
oeuvres, and he would wait for my mom to come home before he would

840
00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:14,320
pour his first martini. I love that. What a great.

841
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,880
What's that? Vision and sort of

842
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,640
legacy. Oh, Yeah. I mean, he was an early riser and he did what he

843
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,360
had to do. He had his daily nap, but

844
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:30,120
at five o'. Clock. And he wouldn't drink before that. Yeah. But at five o'

845
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,760
clock it was cocktail hour and as kids he was adult

846
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,040
swim. Yeah. Which meant if my father saw my brother and I

847
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,810
anywhere around the formal living room at that moment,

848
00:53:41,690 --> 00:53:45,370
that's adult. It's mama papa time. Get the F out of here.

849
00:53:45,450 --> 00:53:49,290
Wow. What a great legacy. I wish I. Because, you know, that

850
00:53:49,450 --> 00:53:52,410
as my mom always said, you know,

851
00:53:54,090 --> 00:53:57,810
you came into my life, but doesn't mean I live in yours. Yeah.

852
00:53:57,810 --> 00:54:01,530
Well, that's interesting because I. My. We're gonna wrap it up now.

853
00:54:01,530 --> 00:54:05,370
My kids live with us now because they got displaced by

854
00:54:05,370 --> 00:54:08,240
the fire. They didn't lose their house, but they can't live there yet. Oh, phooey.

855
00:54:08,470 --> 00:54:12,310
And they raise their kids differently. There's no boundaries. You know, I can be in

856
00:54:12,310 --> 00:54:14,990
the shower, they can run in the bathroom or they can. And I tell my

857
00:54:14,990 --> 00:54:18,390
wife, I don't. This is not their time. This is my time

858
00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:22,350
with you and whoever. I don't, I don't want the door open like that. I

859
00:54:22,350 --> 00:54:25,670
want it disciplined and structured and it's been a little bit of a challenge. Anyway,

860
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:28,790
we'll leave it at that. This is an amazing conversation, amazing story

861
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:32,630
about your legacy and your father in law and.

862
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:36,700
Sorry, your stepfather. Your father and

863
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:40,420
how you're going to handle this going forward because you have something very

864
00:54:40,420 --> 00:54:43,660
special and very unique here. And I. The story is great

865
00:54:44,140 --> 00:54:46,380
and I think you can stay the course.

866
00:54:48,300 --> 00:54:51,660
This is who I am. Yeah. I won't let anybody down. My

867
00:54:51,660 --> 00:54:55,380
customers, you. I'm here to participate. I'm

868
00:54:55,380 --> 00:54:59,060
here to share. And I really look forward to spending more

869
00:54:59,060 --> 00:55:02,880
time with you and sharing what you know. The, the next

870
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,200
round is going to be for me because it's going to be unique. I, I

871
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,280
can, I can guarantee you it's going to be unique. I've already figured that out.

872
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,120
Yeah. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you.