Ancient Roots, Modern Revival: Exploring Armenian Wine and Enotourism with Lilit Grigoryan

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Winemaking and wine is something that is rooted

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as a nation in our DNA. If you remember all our

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grandmothers, grandfathers in their times, all of them were

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making wine at their homes. Armenia isn't learning from Europe,

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it's reminding the world where Europe itself learned

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from. Sit back and grab a glass.

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It's Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And I am in studio today in

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beautiful Southern California, about to have a conversation all the way out in Yerevan,

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Armenia, with the Gregorian introductions. In just a moment, they have

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a list to a show I just put out. Actually, it's coming out today with

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Lisa Kasabian. She's a Cornell University

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enology student turned Bordeaux

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intern. It's an incredible conversation with a young girl who's breaking

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into the industry, who got a chance to work in Bordeaux, France, as her

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first excursion out of the United States in the wine trade,

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but not while we're here. Here, have a conversation with Lit Gagorian. She is the

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director and founder of Wines of Armenia, the NGO,

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as well as the director and co founder of

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eNoturos, the Council of Enotourism in Armenia. Welcome to the show.

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Thank you, Paul. Thank you for this opportunity. Opportunity for

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this third attempt in this. Yeah,

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Hope the last. Last successful one.

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Well, when we come out in May, we'll do it live. Usually

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I get a studio at Civil Net and they let me use their podcast studio

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so we can sit down and go over all that. But let's talk about that

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for a second. This group you just founded,

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which is the Council of Eotourism, that's in. In

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Yerevan, it's for the promotion of

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innotourism in. In Armenia. Yeah,

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yeah. It's for uniting fragmented efforts in the field of

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EINO tourism and to provide a dedicated platform that

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connects public, private and academic stakeholders.

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This is the main objective. We just

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recently establish this organization.

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There are quite many stakeholders in it. There

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are tour operators, wine tour operators, actually

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in the main team, the core team. There are

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wine guides, also wineries,

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museums in the team.

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Also, we work very closely with RE1 foundation,

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and currently we are in the process with the Ministry of Education

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in the preliminary application tentative list for making

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RNE1 cave as UNESCO World Heritage and demonstrate

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it as a universal heritage. So RNE one Foundation

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is another part of our current team, working

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team, and we have great people in

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our team. Archaeologists Boris Kasparian,

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as you might know, who actually founded Arenuan

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Cave. We have another archaeologist, Mariam

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Shahmurazian, and we work closely with the Ministry now

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to do this job, it's a long way to go actually. But

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the most important thing is that we started it eventually.

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Well, you said a lot there, particularly with the innotourism partner. I just had a

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gentleman on the show last week who started

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Eno tourism in parts of smaller wine

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regions of the world. We were talking about Armenia a little bit, but he's, he.

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The reason I brought that up is there's, there's a little resurgence

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in the idea of enoturism. Just for instance, I

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didn't do it on purpose, but we were in

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Pimonte, dropped into Monaco for the Grand Prix last year in

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2024 onto Bordeaux and then Paris. And it

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end up being this, this Eno tourism group of friends.

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And I didn't start it as that, I just was going to the

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Monaco race, which I love to do. But as

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the plans evolved, we became very interested in traveling

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to the wine regions, of course, being in the trade

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and experiencing that. And it was amazing reaction from the group

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did this. Was this founded on this idea of either

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trying to expose the world to Armenian wines and the

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wine culture in Armenia, or it help promote the

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wines themselves throughout the world? Well,

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actually we have all the models that

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Europe already has. The well known

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regions, famous winemaking regions already have,

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for instance, the deep antiquity of Georgia, the

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dramatic terroirs of Mendoza, the integrated

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lifestyle of Tuscany, the cultural diplomacy of

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Portugal, we have all in one. So the only thing

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that we don't have is the marketing and shouting it out to the world

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and having the proof for it. So this discovery that we are

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talking about that anyone have is why is it so important to

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protect it and to acclaim it. So this

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discovery has reshaped understanding of early vitic

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culture, highlighting in Armenia, in Caucasus region actually,

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where actually we can't say Georgians or Armenians were living

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6,100 years ago, but there was a civilization

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and it started from here, from this region. And this

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is very important thing to shout out to

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the world because the winemaking and viticulture and domestication of

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the grape actually started in this region. So

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ongoing research also including DNA analysis of

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grape remains, aims to further clarify the winery's

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role in the prehistoric communities.

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So that's why we can say that this is a universal

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heritage. This is something that was before Bordeaux and

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other well known countries. So

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that's why we thought that we should create,

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establish this organization. And surely this is not the only thing that we're

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going to do. Main pillars is the education and we

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are also closely working with global

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wine Tourism Organization. One and only one

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international one, which unites 30 countries. So Armenia

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is represented by our organization and they have this

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idea of a tourism academy worldwide. And now

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we are in the process of doing this again with

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Ministry of Education to either establish

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the academy in Armenia, which will be actually the regional one

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for the whole region. It will be the first one, or integrate

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the courses into this agrarian university courses already

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like main educational thing. So

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education is the main pillar for us. Research

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is also very important for us. Policy advocacy

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is very important for our organization.

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Capacity building is also. And certification procedures are very

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important for us. So these are the main directions we're

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now looking to. This is very

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inspiring, frankly. And I say this when I talk

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about the Armenian wine trade and what I know about it and just

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being so well experienced here in America. But

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the strides the Armenian industry has made just we were there in

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2007, the wine was undrinkable. I mean, literally we stopped at two or three

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wineries. And of course, in the Armenian pride way, we have to say how good

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it was. But we, you know, we're cringing at it. And when you think about

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it and you think about the concept of old world versus new world, which

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is one of these actually, old world, new world are terms that

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the Master of Wine program has dropped completely from its curriculum.

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But I think, I don't think that's right. I think

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because Armenia is old world.

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We are ancient world actually. Not new, not ancient

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world. I like that better. Yeah, I like the better better as well.

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And you know, the. The saying, it says, the old

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world says, we don't just follow the rules, we made the rules.

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The new world says the only reason to learn the rules is so you

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can break them better. And the ancient world says,

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we are the shoulders that the old world world

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stands on. Well, we are the shoulders for the world. Actually.

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I see Armenian winemaking and overall these

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wine culture in this way. That's really interesting thought

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process. I've never heard, heard that

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definition of old flesh new. And I wonder why.

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No, it's really good. And I wonder why there's been dropped from the

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academic circles of wine. Because when you think about it,

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you know, the argument has always been there were sort of two classifications of

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old versus new. One would be the character of the wine and the other would

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certainly be the location of the wine. And here Armenia

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has moved the needle so quickly in just a matter of. Years to get

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reclaiming its history and its reawakening

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kind of. It's not really. It's not new, it's not old.

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It's so old that it needs to

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again reclaim its positions to the world. And

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Armenia isn't learning from Europe, it's reminding the world where

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Europe itself learn from. We,

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when we were discussing this whole history, we

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come up to this. I don't know, maybe it's very ambitious for,

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to talk in this way, but we have all the proofs for this

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and we are very modest nation, but we, we should

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stop being like that. Well, it's

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a good point. And I, I don't think it's,

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I don't think it's arrogant. I don't think it's presumptuous. I think that there's, there's,

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you know, obviously historical data and historical

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DNA to, to follow this. But, but wine is a slow industry.

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You get one year. And that's what's been impressive of the

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quality because it takes a long time. I mean, I guess best explained when

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I was speaking to Juliana and she said, you know,

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the knowledge, the famed French enologist said,

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okay, now we know that this is a great place for wine, but you need

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a hundred years to figure it out. Because the evolution

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of winemaking, the evolution of understanding the terroir,

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the evolution of all these things has happened very quickly here. Oh,

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yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true. But still we have

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all the evidence in our spiritual, even

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rituals, even. This is one thing you

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won't see anywhere. Like the

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churches themselves have the whole

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writings and spiritual evidences that come

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from 4th, 6th centuries, et cetera.

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So winemaking and wine is something that

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is rooted in our, as a nation, in our DNA. If

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you remember, all our grandmothers, grandfathers

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in their times, all of them were making wine at their homes. So

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this is actually, this is not the wine that we are used to

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in today's world. But they

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did it like, without, without going

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deep into why are they doing that. They were doing it like they were

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cooking or doing something else. It was part of their

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everyday life, of their culture, of their

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mindset, etc. You know, it's interesting

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you said that about the, the homemade wines,

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because when I was back there, and I don't know if you saw that in

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the real I sent you. I don't think it was in there. But I stopped

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at the roadside, one of the roadside kiosks outside

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the Ottomany cave, and tasted the wines.

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And I really thought that this was going to be, you know, impossible

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to stomach or smell or drink. And you know what it was,

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it was pretty reasonable Even though it was in a Coke bottle, you know, plastic

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bottle, I thought it was palatable, and I thought that was

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amazing because it's probably not like that here in America. I do

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have a keen interest in understanding the role of wine in the church, and

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I'll be for a different subject even in. In the

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modern European times. I just. It's an interesting angle to

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take on the wine trade because it is cultural. And I.

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The conversation with Vayakushkarian sort of revealed that that

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wine has been part of the Armenian culture since we understand

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the inception of the culture. Yeah, it has been with us before

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Christ even. Like monasteries, wineries, sacred

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procedures, sacred wine heritage, we all have

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it, and we just need to

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make it more public, nationally public and then

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internationally public, because our nation itself

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does not understand, realize what a heritage

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we have. In every, I mean, monument, you can see

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these evidences. You just need guides to

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know deeper, to go deeper into the history, to go

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deeper. When do you think. Yeah, sorry, sorry to interrupt

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you. Do you think that without the

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interruption of the Soviet era, that there would

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have been a completely different position today in the world of wine?

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Yeah, surely if it was not industrialized and it was not

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interrupt, interrupted and the heritage wouldn't be

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forgotten. Surely we would be

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the same as Georgia is now. They go

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like, they keep it up to their.

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They are kind of cradle of winemaking. And actually, when

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recently I was talking to our Georgian

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colleague who had been visiting us for annotalks,

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he agreed that. And everyone agrees. Actually, it's nonsense not

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to agree. We are the same region. When the

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wine was born, there was no Georgia, no

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Armenia, no other countries. There were no borders. This

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all was one region. So the civilization

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was created in this region. So

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that's why. Yeah, that's why. If we

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wouldn't lose our grapevines, like we wouldn't

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lose our history,

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heritage, maybe it would be easier for us to go on. But

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Armenians are known for their hard life, for

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all the challenges throughout the centuries. So this is not the first

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case for us. But surely we will beat it

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all again and we will reborn.

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We will reborn actually, sooner or later.

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Well, it's. It seems to be working. And the more I discuss

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Armenian wines throughout my. My travels here with the show,

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the more people have raised an eyebrow, the more people have said, I acknowledge that

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I had. I had a. A master psalm on the show not that long ago.

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And he had visited a wine shop in

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Sacramento called the Cordy Brothers, which is a very famous

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American wine shop. One of these Daryl Cordy is going to come on the show

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in the near future. One of the preeminent port specialists in

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the world. And. But the comment made by the Master

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Psalm was that Darrell pulled out an Armenian wine. Don't know which one it

252
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was. And his reaction was, this is

253
00:16:00,030 --> 00:16:02,830
so good that not only do I have to learn about it as a Master

254
00:16:02,830 --> 00:16:06,610
Psalm, I need to study this, but now I have to compete against it because

255
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he's a winemaker in prior at Spain. And I thought, wow, that's an interesting

256
00:16:11,130 --> 00:16:14,970
viewpoint from somebody who's, you know, with the highest level of education in the wine

257
00:16:14,970 --> 00:16:18,770
world. What, what was your personal track to get here?

258
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What, what motivated you to create this, you know, tourism

259
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group? And the motivation, inspiration to keep

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the pedal going. How do you say it? Put the pedal to the metal.

261
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,480
Yeah, actually, you know, when we were young, I was young,

262
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it was not that trendy, I mean, to drink wine,

263
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but we were a small group of girls, like cheeky girls,

264
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studying at Bruce University, which was known for beautiful,

265
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nice girls. And we used to drink wine a lot,

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every evening, all of, for all our gatherings. And we just,

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on our shelves, we were going deeper into the

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knowledge of it, going deeper into what's going on in the world, et

269
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cetera. Then somehow I didn't realize it brought me life, brought

270
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me to other industries, alcoholic

271
00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:12,610
beverage industries, actually. I've been a brand

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00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:16,290
manager for Diageo, portfolio for

273
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Heineken brand, et cetera. So, yeah, and

274
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I quite forgot about wine during

275
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this period of my life. I went into luxury

276
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brands, etc. And it was really very interesting to work with these

277
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,720
brands worldwide, to cooperate with

278
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different giants, etc. But then somehow I came to

279
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Wines of Armenia. So this

280
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is the place I'm actually thankful for

281
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:49,960
because these three years that I've been working with them, I

282
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have had also my input put in it. But I've

283
00:17:53,550 --> 00:17:56,710
learned much from people, from

284
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:59,830
winemakers, from industry experts.

285
00:18:00,230 --> 00:18:03,750
During this time, I got acquainted with, for instance, Cristina

286
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:06,310
Marcarian, who is the one and only

287
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:10,710
scientist for Molecular Biology Institute. She

288
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goes deep into the DNA of the grapevine. She has explored

289
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:18,880
nearly 400 grape varieties for

290
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,400
Armenia. She's working very closely with

291
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German and other institutes, she is making the

292
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,080
passport, etc. So these people, these

293
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,480
individuals, actually the

294
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enthusiast for the sector just inspired me so much

295
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that I felt like wanting to be in this industry,

296
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wanting to leave a track in

297
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it. So this was the idea. I just love this industry.

298
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This is it. And I want to be

299
00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:54,900
one person or my team to

300
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,140
be the team that will bring forward

301
00:18:58,780 --> 00:19:02,380
the recognition

302
00:19:02,380 --> 00:19:06,020
of Armenian winemaking and wine tourism

303
00:19:06,020 --> 00:19:08,780
worldwide. And since we have this

304
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:14,230
great demand, big demand worldwide for tourists.

305
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:18,150
So. And it's growing up and up, so we have this global

306
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:21,790
annual tourism market research data which is

307
00:19:21,790 --> 00:19:25,510
going up and up. Meanwhile, the alcoholic

308
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:29,230
beverage consumption is going down and down. So we

309
00:19:29,230 --> 00:19:32,750
should go with the trends, worldwide trends,

310
00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:35,990
and position our world, our country

311
00:19:36,550 --> 00:19:40,230
to the world as best and a tourism destination. This

312
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:43,950
is the idea. And I just find. I just want to

313
00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:47,750
be in this. Story, you know, I think it's the only solution. And I.

314
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:50,830
And I think we said a lot there that we can comment on. But one

315
00:19:50,830 --> 00:19:54,510
of the things is for sure, wine consumption is

316
00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:58,350
off, you know, worldwide. It's interesting to me that it doesn't take a

317
00:19:58,350 --> 00:20:00,070
whole lot of. Of

318
00:20:01,670 --> 00:20:05,390
reduction in percentages for. For it to affect, you know,

319
00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:09,230
the global world of wine and the cash flow of wine, but it's still well

320
00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:12,070
consumed. And I think that's generational. I think

321
00:20:13,030 --> 00:20:16,750
all generations eventually come around to that glass of wine. You know, it's interesting that

322
00:20:16,750 --> 00:20:20,430
you said you talked about the luxury industry. So two points that I wanted to

323
00:20:20,430 --> 00:20:23,670
make on that. One is it must be very. I'm not going to say refreshing,

324
00:20:24,550 --> 00:20:28,350
but it's important to have somebody like you on the Armenian side of

325
00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:31,920
this because of our culture and our nature. But

326
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,600
here's somebody that's got corporate experience in the world of

327
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,880
beverage marketing, which is very complicated and

328
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,720
difficult to. Difficult to approach in the sense of you don't just break

329
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,400
into it, you don't just take over. You. You have to earn your stripe, so

330
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,200
to speak, to understand the back end of our trade.

331
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,710
And you bring to the table for the Armenian culture and the nation

332
00:20:57,310 --> 00:21:01,070
worldwide experience in. In luxury brands. I think that's a huge

333
00:21:01,870 --> 00:21:05,710
piece of input. Yeah. Also the events,

334
00:21:05,710 --> 00:21:08,750
the knowledge for events, they do actually worldwide.

335
00:21:09,390 --> 00:21:13,030
So this is. This was a nice experience, actually, for which I'm

336
00:21:13,030 --> 00:21:16,670
thankful as well. But this was kind of

337
00:21:16,670 --> 00:21:20,390
experience that can also benefit Armenia can benefit from.

338
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:23,570
Surely now we are doing all of these events

339
00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:27,610
for the festivals with Wines of Armenia. We've been doing the

340
00:21:27,610 --> 00:21:31,410
Zatik Wine Festival, which is being

341
00:21:31,410 --> 00:21:35,090
held on Easter days, actually. And

342
00:21:35,090 --> 00:21:38,930
we connect kind of these identities

343
00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:42,530
that the Easter, Easter again,

344
00:21:42,610 --> 00:21:45,810
religion, connecting religion to wine and

345
00:21:45,970 --> 00:21:49,570
spirituality to winemaking. The idea is that.

346
00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:53,570
And the next festival and the next summit that we did

347
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:57,090
was with Eno Tourism Council of Armenia was already

348
00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:02,010
Enofest and Enotox. Actually. Enotox was the summit,

349
00:22:02,010 --> 00:22:05,730
International summit and Enofest United all of the

350
00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:09,330
stakeholders for ENO tourism, if you would be here, you would

351
00:22:09,330 --> 00:22:13,090
see in the list of participants,

352
00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:16,930
you would see winemakers, gastro. Sure, because

353
00:22:16,930 --> 00:22:20,490
gastro is inseparable part of tourism, actually.

354
00:22:20,490 --> 00:22:24,330
The flavors and taste of your country, the wine, the

355
00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:28,490
museums, the educational universities that

356
00:22:28,490 --> 00:22:32,050
teach tourism, we had great many

357
00:22:32,050 --> 00:22:34,730
crafts, arts, music,

358
00:22:35,930 --> 00:22:39,770
we united all in one. I mean, Ana, tourism is a means

359
00:22:39,770 --> 00:22:43,360
of us talking about your country in every

360
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,120
single way. I mean culture,

361
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,400
knowledge, heritage, history in. In

362
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,240
all of the directions. So this is also an easy way to

363
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,880
shout out about your country. Not difficult

364
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,880
and easy. Yeah, not easy because easy because

365
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,800
we have all. We have all. We don't need

366
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,600
to invent anything, we don't need to do ChatGPT. We have

367
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,340
it all. It's. No, it's incredible.

368
00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:16,780
And that you, you define something that just made me think

369
00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:21,700
because I think in general people think wine is luxury and certainly

370
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,300
an edge. An inexperienced wine

371
00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:28,980
enthusiast probably still feels like

372
00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:32,300
wine is a luxury item. And maybe it's not. Maybe

373
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:36,220
the way you're approaching this culturally,

374
00:23:36,540 --> 00:23:39,940
it's just part of the culture. And I always, whenever I give these little speeches

375
00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:43,680
around town, I always talk about what five pieces of culture could you

376
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,080
talk about if you had a culture, if you came from a place like Argentina

377
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,760
or Armenia, what would you talk about? Well, you would talk about a language,

378
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,200
for sure. You would talk about land, if you still have it. You would talk

379
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,200
about your cuisine and you would talk about your wine and music.

380
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,600
And so that is defining part of culture. So I wonder why it's considered

381
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,160
luxury when it really is ingrained in the culture and

382
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,930
particularly in Armenia. Is there camaraderie then? Is there a

383
00:24:08,930 --> 00:24:12,410
camaraderie amongst all the different players, the museums,

384
00:24:13,130 --> 00:24:16,930
the wineries, the government? Is there a sense

385
00:24:16,930 --> 00:24:20,730
of unity to move the needle on this? Not yet.

386
00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:24,449
Not yet. If we had this

387
00:24:24,449 --> 00:24:28,170
unity, we wouldn't establish ourselves. Actually, this organization,

388
00:24:28,810 --> 00:24:31,370
the lack of it was surely. Actually

389
00:24:32,570 --> 00:24:36,410
we already talked about it, that Armenian winemaking is very

390
00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:40,250
new, newborn reburning a

391
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:44,050
rebirth of Armenian winemaking. So

392
00:24:44,770 --> 00:24:48,290
imagine Eenotourism is so young in our

393
00:24:48,290 --> 00:24:51,090
places. Actually whenever we talk to each other we say

394
00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:56,050
this is even not the first generation, even not going to second

395
00:24:56,129 --> 00:24:59,730
generation. We have only the first generation of winemakers

396
00:25:00,530 --> 00:25:03,770
now. We cannot yet speak of good and

397
00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:07,410
autourism and professional tourism because we have lack of

398
00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:11,110
education, we have lack of marketing, we have lack of

399
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:15,030
responsibility, etc. Etc. So the idea is

400
00:25:15,030 --> 00:25:18,630
to go deeper into this, to educate people, to

401
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:22,670
unite them, to

402
00:25:22,670 --> 00:25:25,750
make these roundtables to have these discussions, to

403
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:30,150
make the annotourism product unique for all, for

404
00:25:30,150 --> 00:25:33,710
everyone, to make everyone speak the same language, for our

405
00:25:33,710 --> 00:25:37,410
history, for our heritage, etc. So this is the

406
00:25:37,410 --> 00:25:41,170
storytelling should be very nice and same. Like

407
00:25:41,490 --> 00:25:44,770
not every winemaker tells

408
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:48,930
one unique story, but they should talk all in one language.

409
00:25:48,930 --> 00:25:52,690
So this is the idea of our organization and hope

410
00:25:52,690 --> 00:25:55,570
we can make it actually through our

411
00:25:55,810 --> 00:25:59,010
educational things and through our festivals, events,

412
00:25:59,010 --> 00:26:02,820
roundtables. So we have a

413
00:26:02,820 --> 00:26:06,580
long way to do this. Yes, that is

414
00:26:06,580 --> 00:26:08,940
a. It's a long, slow,

415
00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:14,060
difficult road, but inspiring road. Yeah. Because

416
00:26:14,940 --> 00:26:18,180
it for me, because of. You can't see behind me, there's a picture of my

417
00:26:18,180 --> 00:26:21,980
father and I in 1975 in our wine shop. And

418
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:25,980
you know, I thank my father every day for introducing me to this industry

419
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:29,670
because there's something. There's something deep rooted

420
00:26:29,670 --> 00:26:33,390
in the human psyche and the human soul that wine brings to the

421
00:26:33,390 --> 00:26:36,750
table that nothing else does. So there's always that sort of

422
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:40,510
motivation to bring that same excitement and inspiration to the

423
00:26:40,510 --> 00:26:44,150
table for everybody that. That crosses. Even yesterday, I had a

424
00:26:44,150 --> 00:26:47,830
podcast with a Chilean winemaker here in the studio and I.

425
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:50,590
And I just had this hankering when I got home and I pulled out my

426
00:26:50,590 --> 00:26:54,240
best bottle of Chilean wine and had. And just. Just

427
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,040
reflecting on our conversation was just fun to do and taste this

428
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,680
wine that we talked about. But is there international camaraderie you

429
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,440
do. Do you know the oddening group, the global irony

430
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,200
Global. Pauline Vaccar, you know, and very famous

431
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,960
relay, the famed winemaker up there. Is there

432
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,920
camaraderie for the rest of the world to hear

433
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,370
this message from the Armenian Council?

434
00:27:21,130 --> 00:27:24,970
The message, you mean, sorry, from you. To

435
00:27:24,970 --> 00:27:28,810
the international community is there. Are they willing to listen?

436
00:27:29,130 --> 00:27:30,810
Yeah. So

437
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:37,850
sooner or later, the world will recognize

438
00:27:38,730 --> 00:27:42,250
Armenia as the. The most desired and top

439
00:27:43,610 --> 00:27:47,290
direction for ANA tourism and winemaking. It will

440
00:27:47,290 --> 00:27:50,130
take some 10 more years, I guess.

441
00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:54,370
And what I would like people to consider

442
00:27:54,770 --> 00:27:58,370
is that we are ancient. We have these

443
00:27:59,090 --> 00:28:02,489
origins, we have these high elevations, we have this

444
00:28:02,489 --> 00:28:05,730
altitude, we have soul, we have sun, we have the people,

445
00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:09,010
we have the story, we have everything. So

446
00:28:10,450 --> 00:28:14,010
just let them not postpone their visit to

447
00:28:14,010 --> 00:28:17,760
Armenia because they could later they could

448
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,600
boast that they've seen Armenia still

449
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,320
in the first steps of becoming that giant. So later

450
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,400
they can boast on this. So

451
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,600
this is my only message. And we

452
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,320
sure need ambassadors like you, ambassadors like other

453
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,200
people would

454
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,120
pass the word of Armenian winemaking and its

455
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,960
prospectives and its future. And it's everything. So

456
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,760
surely if we have these friends, these People who would

457
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,240
help us in

458
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,520
doing this PR for Armenian winemaking and

459
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,680
tourism. It would help us a lot. And thank you for being a part

460
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,920
of this journey. Well, that's kind of

461
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,720
you to say. It's really, you

462
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,040
know, you can't stop learning in this industry. And certainly with myheritage

463
00:29:14,620 --> 00:29:18,460
is inquisitive enough to say, look, I gotta find out what's going on

464
00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:21,740
here. Yes, I already told you that

465
00:29:21,740 --> 00:29:25,580
2007 was rather shocking to do, but,

466
00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:29,500
you know. But it's interesting. You have Concord Mundia de Boxe coming. Yeah.

467
00:29:29,660 --> 00:29:33,380
Famed international tasting with 7,000 or 10,000

468
00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:36,780
wines will be tasted. With two or three hundred judges coming to

469
00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:40,380
Armenia, that seems like a feather in the cap for the industry

470
00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:43,680
to have. Sure, sure. This is a big event for

471
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,280
Armenia, surely, and we have much to show

472
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,840
these people, much to boast on. And I think

473
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,520
that all of these people that will visit Armenia next year,

474
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,920
they will become, as I told you already, kind of small

475
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,680
ambassadors for Armenia and its heritage and its history. And

476
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,480
this is a very good step, a very

477
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,640
diplomatic step from our government, from Wine and

478
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,720
Wine Foundation. And I hope we make it

479
00:30:12,490 --> 00:30:15,530
brilliantly and with dignity and

480
00:30:16,490 --> 00:30:18,810
with post effects and post

481
00:30:20,570 --> 00:30:23,930
results. I think it's gonna be

482
00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:27,610
fabulous. Already booked my room at the Alexander Hotel, of course,

483
00:30:28,170 --> 00:30:31,730
and looking forward to our next trip and doing

484
00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:35,570
something, you know, to continue moving the needle. Yeah. And there

485
00:30:35,570 --> 00:30:39,170
is also an anatourism summit worldwide, actually, next year.

486
00:30:39,170 --> 00:30:43,010
It's in Portugal. And we hope that in

487
00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:46,730
coming years, we'll bring it to Armenia as well. And this

488
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:50,370
will also be a big, big event because again, from 30 countries,

489
00:30:50,930 --> 00:30:54,290
the members of Global Wine Tourism Organization will be visiting

490
00:30:54,290 --> 00:30:57,970
Armenia. And we're now working on this direction. So

491
00:30:58,050 --> 00:31:01,370
much work is done by people, by

492
00:31:01,370 --> 00:31:05,010
teams, by companies, by organizations, also by government.

493
00:31:05,650 --> 00:31:09,100
And we hope these efforts make it good results.

494
00:31:10,060 --> 00:31:13,820
I was talking to Miriam Sargatelian not too long

495
00:31:13,820 --> 00:31:17,660
ago, and she did say something to the effect of,

496
00:31:17,660 --> 00:31:21,420
you know, Armenian wine. The Armenian wine group, they're.

497
00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:25,180
We're not team players yet, but we're working on it. And I think your group

498
00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:29,020
is part of that impetus. But we also talked about the idea.

499
00:31:29,820 --> 00:31:32,140
Let me see if I can phrase this. And you brought it up earlier about

500
00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:35,900
the Tuscan, you know, how integrated wine is into the Tuscan lifestyle. And

501
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:39,410
I just. I just find it fascinating, personally from a

502
00:31:39,490 --> 00:31:43,090
historical standpoint, how different every wine culture is.

503
00:31:43,410 --> 00:31:47,250
Tuscany is way different than Pimonte, and Pimonte is way different than Bordeaux. And

504
00:31:47,250 --> 00:31:51,010
then now you have Armenia in the mix. But there's. There

505
00:31:51,010 --> 00:31:54,850
seems to be a, an

506
00:31:54,850 --> 00:31:58,610
attraction now in the Armenian community in Armenia

507
00:31:58,850 --> 00:32:02,610
to be part of the wine lifestyle, to have a brand to create

508
00:32:02,610 --> 00:32:06,020
wine. It is, I'm not going to say it was the curse of

509
00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:09,700
Napa Valley, but it's certainly in the Napa world.

510
00:32:10,260 --> 00:32:13,100
You know, you made a lot of money, you went and chased your chateau and

511
00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:16,820
you bought all this fancy land and you realize it's very hard to make money

512
00:32:16,820 --> 00:32:20,420
in our industry. The margins are really bad. So

513
00:32:20,660 --> 00:32:24,460
is there, do you feel that there, that there's a lot of. And I think

514
00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:27,300
it's good for the, I think it's good for the industry, even though people find

515
00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:30,820
out how hard it is. But I think it's good that people are interested in

516
00:32:31,460 --> 00:32:35,060
exploring the lifestyle of wine. And is there a lifestyle of

517
00:32:35,060 --> 00:32:38,500
wine in Armenia? Is, is there a culture around wine itself? Like.

518
00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:42,740
Well, there is an. There is not a

519
00:32:42,740 --> 00:32:45,460
distinct wine culture in Armenia actually.

520
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:49,780
We are on the way to this. But it's.

521
00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:54,540
If we talk about, if we talk for numbers, it's getting higher and

522
00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:57,900
higher for perfect per capita, I mean consumption, wine

523
00:32:57,900 --> 00:33:01,660
consumption in Armenia, it's. The number is going up in the world,

524
00:33:01,660 --> 00:33:05,260
is going down in Armenia, it's going up. This speaks about,

525
00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:09,740
this speaks about the idea that yeah, we are

526
00:33:09,740 --> 00:33:13,420
accepting the wine culture. We are going back to our roots.

527
00:33:13,980 --> 00:33:17,340
We are realizing that wine is a way,

528
00:33:17,820 --> 00:33:21,620
a lifestyle. For Armenians, wine has been a bit

529
00:33:21,620 --> 00:33:25,220
complicated for drinking in everyday lives because, you

530
00:33:25,220 --> 00:33:28,680
know, they have all of this st stuff to roll up the glass,

531
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,200
to smell it, to taste it, to. Etc for

532
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,000
young people it's, it's not easy to do all of this stuff and they find

533
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,560
it quite complicated to. Well, for them.

534
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,960
But I guess, yeah, we're, we're going

535
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,480
to the wine culture rapidly. And yes, we have

536
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,080
very many winemakers, newborn

537
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,240
ones. There are very many companies in

538
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,960
Armenia and the number is going up and up. But this is normal,

539
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,720
I guess, for, for any country that is really

540
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,240
awakening from a long sleep.

541
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:11,840
So some wine from. For some

542
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,960
winemaking companies, it will work. Some will close.

543
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,280
There will be a filter, you know, Paul, the time will filter

544
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,289
everything. And eventually we will go to the second

545
00:34:23,289 --> 00:34:26,729
generation of winemakers, probably. I,

546
00:34:26,889 --> 00:34:29,929
I hope so. And yeah, we will make

547
00:34:30,009 --> 00:34:33,729
winemaking one of our main economic branches. This is

548
00:34:33,729 --> 00:34:37,529
the most important thing I say, I guess because for Armenia is very,

549
00:34:37,929 --> 00:34:41,569
it's very important as a small country. Country is

550
00:34:41,569 --> 00:34:43,289
very important to lean on this

551
00:34:45,129 --> 00:34:48,969
branch. You know, I have to put a feather in my cap, pat myself on

552
00:34:48,969 --> 00:34:52,660
the Back, I don't know, just give myself a couple accolades since

553
00:34:52,660 --> 00:34:56,500
I don't get them anyway. And that is the wine

554
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:59,220
just won two gold medals in a very prestigious

555
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:04,660
tasting here in America. And I've

556
00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:08,380
been touting this wine. I would pour it anywhere

557
00:35:08,380 --> 00:35:12,140
at any time. And it's. I'm getting

558
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:14,820
a little bit of an echo. But it's kind of like my. If, you know,

559
00:35:14,820 --> 00:35:17,990
it all comes down to when you taste wine.

560
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:23,150
My selection criteria here at the Wine of the Month Club, when I ran it

561
00:35:23,150 --> 00:35:26,150
for 35 years, was ultimately,

562
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:31,030
would I serve this to my guests? And so

563
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:34,430
you can talk the vineyards and the soil and the depth of the vines and

564
00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:37,350
the roots, and you can talk about the economy. You can talk about all the

565
00:35:37,350 --> 00:35:40,790
things you want. When you bring a wine to my table, it's

566
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:44,630
hospitality. It's the Armenian hospitality. Paul, you never

567
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:48,470
thought. It's true, though.

568
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:52,150
You'll be like, yeah, we have lots of stories to tell

569
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:55,790
about that. But the point was, this wine just won, my favorite

570
00:35:55,790 --> 00:35:59,470
wine of all Armenian wines, just won a gold medal on

571
00:35:59,470 --> 00:36:03,270
both two varietals. And I thought, you know, there's a redemption there. And

572
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:07,070
this is huge to win on that stage, and I'm very

573
00:36:07,070 --> 00:36:10,310
proud of it. There was the Voskavas out in the collection, the

574
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:14,130
Hongtulant and the. Yeah. And out of new art. And the reason

575
00:36:14,130 --> 00:36:17,690
I like them may be a wine geek reason,

576
00:36:19,050 --> 00:36:22,890
because the complexity being

577
00:36:24,250 --> 00:36:27,930
aged in amphora, which is a very caucus

578
00:36:27,930 --> 00:36:31,570
thing to do. And now catching on, which this is great. I'm sorry to interrupt

579
00:36:31,570 --> 00:36:35,330
myself, but isn't it interesting to you that the rest of the world

580
00:36:35,330 --> 00:36:38,890
now is looking at things like amphora? And you go to France and

581
00:36:38,890 --> 00:36:42,130
Bordeaux, and there's a little section of the winery that's got amphora

582
00:36:43,410 --> 00:36:46,770
or concrete eggs. Doing the same thing, because the

583
00:36:46,770 --> 00:36:50,610
Kwevri actually started. It's UNESCO recognized, you know,

584
00:36:50,610 --> 00:36:54,090
for Georgians. But it's a shame, and

585
00:36:54,090 --> 00:36:57,930
it's a pity that we have not. We

586
00:36:57,930 --> 00:37:01,130
have not kept all of these traditions. We don't have even the

587
00:37:01,130 --> 00:37:03,650
masters for making these karasis, these.

588
00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:08,970
So. But we hope that we. We will make it as well, because

589
00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:12,930
we have lost, actually, the masters who. Who used to make

590
00:37:12,930 --> 00:37:16,650
this arm for us. But this is a unique

591
00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:20,089
thing, you know, this is something new for the world, and surely it should

592
00:37:20,490 --> 00:37:24,010
attract people to this region because it's. Everyone

593
00:37:24,090 --> 00:37:27,890
seeks for something new. Everyone is already. I. I

594
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:31,240
guess everyone is already tired of Bordeaux,

595
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,080
of Burgundy, of Tuscany. They. They

596
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,400
seek for something new. And I think here we

597
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,960
can Win because Armenia could take

598
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,520
this prize for novelty.

599
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,880
Well, it is true though. It's an old

600
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,320
human adage which is what's old is new. Again.

601
00:37:56,290 --> 00:37:59,930
Think about farming techniques. I mean we, we tout ourselves now

602
00:37:59,930 --> 00:38:03,690
about organic and biodynamic farming and sustainability and all this wonderful stuff that

603
00:38:03,690 --> 00:38:07,410
we're doing in modern times. But wasn't it always like that

604
00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:11,170
before, you know, man got involved and changed it all. It was always

605
00:38:11,170 --> 00:38:15,010
there and it's kind of like amphora, you know. Okay, you're

606
00:38:15,010 --> 00:38:18,330
right, there's no amphora. Clay pot makers. But the

607
00:38:18,330 --> 00:38:21,760
concrete egg is basically the same thing. It's a

608
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:24,950
porous micro oxygenation type process

609
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:29,190
that, that has a shape that helps, you know,

610
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:32,910
advance the aging and advance the, the complexity of the wine.

611
00:38:32,910 --> 00:38:36,470
So, you know, whether it's clay or not, kind of irrelevant

612
00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:40,150
conceptually. It's the same thing. Do you think, do you think that

613
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:44,870
the cuisine. You know, I'll tell you the other thing that was amazingly different.

614
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:48,410
When are two recent trips to Armenia from, from

615
00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:52,090
2007 was the cuisine. Yeah, I mean there's been a lot

616
00:38:52,090 --> 00:38:55,930
of international cuisine added to the mix

617
00:38:56,330 --> 00:39:00,090
in downtown Yerevan for sure and other places in world

618
00:39:00,090 --> 00:39:03,810
class cuisine. Has that had an impact on the wine industry as

619
00:39:03,810 --> 00:39:07,610
well? Surely it's intertwined actually wine and

620
00:39:08,090 --> 00:39:11,690
cuisine is. And food is the main part of

621
00:39:11,690 --> 00:39:15,220
experience of wine experience actually, because

622
00:39:15,700 --> 00:39:19,220
otherwise wine pairing always wins.

623
00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:23,020
If you have this good food, good

624
00:39:23,020 --> 00:39:26,100
cuisine, good options, food options, then your

625
00:39:27,140 --> 00:39:30,820
wine will also win actually your wine experience will

626
00:39:30,820 --> 00:39:34,340
also be more complex, be more impressive,

627
00:39:34,340 --> 00:39:37,300
etc. So yeah, we, we can boast on this as well.

628
00:39:39,060 --> 00:39:42,380
I don't know. We have great many restaurants, we have good

629
00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:45,900
chefs who experiment actually with

630
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,700
international and Armenian things. Options, food

631
00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:53,460
options. And I think that's what I

632
00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:57,300
was talking from the beginning. We have everything all in one.

633
00:39:57,620 --> 00:39:59,060
All we need is just,

634
00:40:01,220 --> 00:40:04,980
is just thinking in the same way. Everyone in the country

635
00:40:05,650 --> 00:40:09,250
being united and doing everything for our country

636
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:13,530
and turning to teams from individuals.

637
00:40:13,530 --> 00:40:16,130
This is very important. Without the government,

638
00:40:18,370 --> 00:40:21,650
organizations can't do anything. Without organizations,

639
00:40:21,730 --> 00:40:25,290
governments cannot proceed with their ideas and their

640
00:40:25,290 --> 00:40:29,130
plans and their strategy. So once we

641
00:40:29,130 --> 00:40:32,450
are united, everything will work out very

642
00:40:32,450 --> 00:40:36,060
quickly, as you say it will. Wine industry went very quickly.

643
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:39,940
So the results won't keep us waiting. Yeah, that's a good

644
00:40:39,940 --> 00:40:43,580
question. I'm going to say this sort of tongue in cheek and that I

645
00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:47,060
don't know that I don't know that the government of Armenia is that

646
00:40:47,060 --> 00:40:50,900
entrenched in supporting the industry. But you mentioned that

647
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:54,580
it could be a main Economic funnel for the

648
00:40:54,580 --> 00:40:58,340
government. So. And maybe that'll change. Now here's the Tongue in

649
00:40:58,340 --> 00:41:01,420
Cheek park part. I mean, our governor here in California

650
00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:05,850
owned, is owner of one, at least three wineries that I know

651
00:41:05,850 --> 00:41:09,250
of. And when Covid hit, he

652
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:12,690
excluded wineries from the restrictions,

653
00:41:13,490 --> 00:41:16,530
which was good for me because my license here at the Wine of the Month

654
00:41:16,530 --> 00:41:20,370
Club was, was a winery license. So I didn't know

655
00:41:21,330 --> 00:41:25,090
it. But all joking aside, so to speak, all seriousness

656
00:41:25,090 --> 00:41:28,450
aside, how is the support from the government

657
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,760
and do you see it changing? It is changing,

658
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,680
surely, but it comes with,

659
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,960
with the real realization if the sector realizes

660
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,759
what they want and what direction they need to go, then

661
00:41:44,759 --> 00:41:48,320
the government will surely support. When, when

662
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,000
all the stakeholders want different things, the government

663
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,640
is confused kind of what to support and where to go

664
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,990
to. So I think the idea is that once we are united,

665
00:41:59,470 --> 00:42:03,310
we will have all the support from the government as well, because we will speak

666
00:42:03,310 --> 00:42:06,990
the same language and it will be understandable for the government as well.

667
00:42:07,550 --> 00:42:10,990
At this point, they are just supporting the vine and Wine

668
00:42:10,990 --> 00:42:14,430
foundation, the Tourism Committee. These both institutions

669
00:42:14,590 --> 00:42:17,390
actually work with the Ministry of Economy.

670
00:42:18,110 --> 00:42:21,870
So the budgeting and all the stuff goes through

671
00:42:21,870 --> 00:42:25,400
these two organizations. And we hope that with

672
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,000
years they will have more

673
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,760
understanding of how important is this sector

674
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,480
for Armenia. It's interesting and

675
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,440
throughout my career here I visited. I

676
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,840
mean, I've been to hundreds of wine t. Hundreds might be

677
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,480
exaggeration, but dozens and dozens of off premise wine

678
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,180
tastings. I, I tasted wine every

679
00:42:51,180 --> 00:42:54,820
Tuesday for 35 years without, without exception, unless I was sick.

680
00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:59,220
But there's also lots of many, many off premise

681
00:42:59,220 --> 00:43:01,620
tastings. I went to one last week for,

682
00:43:03,060 --> 00:43:06,580
for a South African wine. But part of them, part of the

683
00:43:06,580 --> 00:43:10,380
culture here in America was the distributor

684
00:43:10,380 --> 00:43:14,220
or supplier would host a tasting. And the big ones

685
00:43:14,220 --> 00:43:18,050
were hundreds of tables with thousands of wines and the small ones were dozens

686
00:43:18,050 --> 00:43:21,370
of tables with hundreds of wines. But there are also the regional

687
00:43:21,530 --> 00:43:25,170
tastings that came to la. So I would go to the Paso Robles

688
00:43:25,170 --> 00:43:28,770
tasting put on by the Paso Robles group. I would go to the Napa

689
00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:31,850
tasting, the Sonoma tasting, the Central coast, whatever groups are out there,

690
00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:35,290
New Zealand, all kinds of international tastings.

691
00:43:37,130 --> 00:43:40,970
Do you see that ever happening? With the support of the government

692
00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:45,350
to send out a crew or to organize a

693
00:43:45,350 --> 00:43:48,950
tasting in America, a tasting in la, a tasting in the

694
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:52,350
uk, which would be Armenian only. Yeah, we have many

695
00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:56,110
discussions within the organizations actually that we

696
00:43:56,110 --> 00:43:59,630
have Wines of Armenia Notoriety Council of Armenia with the

697
00:43:59,630 --> 00:44:03,430
government people. We have all of these discussions and we

698
00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:06,750
understand that we need to have this strategy to sending

699
00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:10,430
ambassadors for Armenian wines and Armenian wine

700
00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:13,940
culture and Armenian tourism. Ideology

701
00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:18,420
keepers like going to the world, not to us, only to

702
00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:22,060
Europe as well. We need these crews, we need these

703
00:44:22,060 --> 00:44:25,860
people to also back up the distributors, actually, because

704
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:29,620
sometimes the distributor needs these people in their countries

705
00:44:29,780 --> 00:44:32,980
to promote the wine and to promote the

706
00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:37,060
production. So this is the idea that we are now

707
00:44:37,060 --> 00:44:40,520
considering, but you know, it's a matter of

708
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,640
huge financial inputs and

709
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,280
investments, so we'll see how it goes. But we

710
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,840
clearly understand that we need this because we don't have these

711
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,280
big high amount of wines like

712
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,960
thousands of hectolitres, et cetera, et cetera. We have this small

713
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,880
boutique style industry, wine industry. So

714
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,670
we need this word of mouth and we need to be in the

715
00:45:06,750 --> 00:45:10,550
specialized high end wine shops

716
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:14,350
and wine showrooms, not on the like supermarket

717
00:45:14,510 --> 00:45:18,030
shelves, etc. But just in specialized

718
00:45:18,190 --> 00:45:21,910
high end, expensive. I mean, because we don't

719
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:25,750
have that amount. But we need the, we have the quality, although

720
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:29,390
we need also to make the quality better.

721
00:45:29,630 --> 00:45:33,400
But at this point we, the strategy we see is that way and

722
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,880
we need these people to promote it in these

723
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,200
showrooms and in these countries. But we just need to have

724
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,960
a strategy. Which countries we're starting with at this moment

725
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,200
after Russia, since, you know, with Russia when there are

726
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,200
complications with sales, et cetera, and the most

727
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,640
actually quantity was sold in Russia. But

728
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,400
since we now understand that we need new markets, we are

729
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,050
now what the government is also making efforts for us,

730
00:46:04,370 --> 00:46:08,170
but US is a huge market. So at least we

731
00:46:08,170 --> 00:46:11,970
have started. Paul? Well, and I have

732
00:46:12,130 --> 00:46:15,770
relationships with winemakers in Armenia that I'm

733
00:46:15,770 --> 00:46:19,530
trying to help here. Now it's very difficult because this in LA alone, which

734
00:46:19,530 --> 00:46:23,330
is obviously a very large market for the US and California. Distributions,

735
00:46:23,490 --> 00:46:26,610
also the story, etc. We have a number.

736
00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:31,980
Zach's been on the show, but even Zach's brand here, which is,

737
00:46:32,220 --> 00:46:35,780
you know, Kushan, Zalal and the rest of it, but their

738
00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:38,940
distributor, which is Massanoise here in California,

739
00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:43,140
you know, has cut back on the number of SKUs in their book in

740
00:46:43,140 --> 00:46:46,420
general. And that's because the consolidation of the

741
00:46:46,420 --> 00:46:50,140
distributors in, in California, RNBC leaving here or

742
00:46:50,380 --> 00:46:54,220
you know, and, and they became, you know, then all those brands got sucked into

743
00:46:54,220 --> 00:46:58,060
Southern wines and spirits. Not to bore the listeners with, you know, trade talk,

744
00:46:58,300 --> 00:47:02,060
but that makes it more difficult to bring new SKUs into the marketplace

745
00:47:02,060 --> 00:47:05,580
because everybody's scrambling to figure out what to do with the old ones. But let

746
00:47:05,580 --> 00:47:09,100
me just tell you a solution that that is a

747
00:47:09,100 --> 00:47:12,460
combination of Two things that I've been through in my career. One was I worked

748
00:47:12,460 --> 00:47:16,060
for the government here locally, and we had a merchants association,

749
00:47:16,620 --> 00:47:19,780
and they could not agree on anything. The

750
00:47:19,780 --> 00:47:23,460
restaurateurs wanted to spend the money on certain types of advertising and

751
00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:26,950
promotion, and the retailers wanted another. So the

752
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:30,750
city government took that role and brought it in. And what

753
00:47:30,750 --> 00:47:34,070
that forced the merchants to do was make a decision

754
00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:38,390
because they were given a budget annually of the money that was

755
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:42,310
brought in through filming in the neighborhood. And

756
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:46,150
so by. By putting the bureaucracy in charge of

757
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:49,590
that commission, though it was still made up of merchants,

758
00:47:50,430 --> 00:47:54,230
forced an agenda and forced decision making. And it

759
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:58,070
worked. And it happens in the wine trade as well. And, for instance,

760
00:47:58,070 --> 00:48:00,030
Washington, the state of Washington,

761
00:48:01,230 --> 00:48:04,350
taxes. Now, I know this is going to be a very hard sell

762
00:48:05,070 --> 00:48:08,750
in the Armenian world, but the government taxes

763
00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:12,350
the wineries on tonnage for their metric.

764
00:48:12,350 --> 00:48:16,150
It's tonnage. But that money is spent by the merchants, by

765
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:19,650
the wineries. But the organization that the government

766
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:23,090
heads up, the commission, is made up of all winemakers.

767
00:48:23,650 --> 00:48:27,330
So these winemakers get together, they've got this budget based on the tax

768
00:48:27,330 --> 00:48:30,610
collected by the government, and they get to decide how to spend it.

769
00:48:31,010 --> 00:48:34,770
The point being? They have to decide. Yeah. Because if you put a whole bunch

770
00:48:34,770 --> 00:48:38,490
of. It doesn't matter if you're Armenian, you know, Georgian or

771
00:48:38,490 --> 00:48:41,250
American, if you put everybody in the room, you're never going to get a decision.

772
00:48:41,250 --> 00:48:44,930
Right, right. Unless the agenda. Unless the agenda forces

773
00:48:44,930 --> 00:48:48,200
it. Anyway, it's a thought. You know, we're already out of time. We're at 50

774
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,000
minutes, and we have so much to talk about still when we do this.

775
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,520
But it was such a pleasure to have you on the show and hear what

776
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,480
likewise you're doing. Likewise. It takes.

777
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,960
Takes people like you to do this. No, don't. I

778
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,440
don't boast on it. I'm in the process.

779
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,480
I don't have results yet.

780
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:12,120
Well, as you know, in this industry,

781
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,560
whatever's old is new. Like we talked about, whatever's

782
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:21,560
new is old again. And it's kind of like social network

783
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,280
marketing. You know, what worked today is not going to work tomorrow,

784
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,799
so. Psycho. Long cycle. Long

785
00:49:28,799 --> 00:49:32,360
cycle. Yeah. Such a pleasure. Thank you for the time today.

786
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,280
Thank you, Paul. Thank you for this opportunity. It was a pleasure talking

787
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,120
to you and hope we meet also very soon in Armenia

788
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,720
and share a glass of wine and food and cuisine and talk

789
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,600
more on upcoming plans and

790
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,440
strategies and thoughts. And thank you also for the

791
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,120
advices. I'm in. I'm

792
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,040
in. See you.