Wine Innovation: Mini Bottles, Younger Drinkers, and an Industry in Transition: Meet Abby Bogle

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There's so much wine sitting out there right now and we've got to do something

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different than the traditional 750ml bottle. That's

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clearly not working. Wine cells are down. So we have to

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elevate, we have to provide an experience and we have to set the wine industry

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has to set itself apart. Sit back and grab

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a glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Key. And I am in studio today in

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beautiful Southern California about to have a conversation with Abby Bogle out there in Lubbock,

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Texas. Introduct. Just a second. Hey, have a listen or watch.

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Zaya Muradian. Such an interesting conversation

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about the Armenian wine trade. And she is in charge of the vine

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and Wine foundation, which is a government run agency to help

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promote wines in a region that most people have not heard of,

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have listened to that. But now while we're here, here to have a conversation with

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Abby. She is owner and CEO of Small Lot

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Bottles. Welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for having me.

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Paul, what's going on at Lubbock today?

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Well, you know, I was actually joking about this this morning. It's

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October and it's supposed to be fall, but we're at 90 degrees so

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it's nice and toasty. But at least we're, we're

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looking forward to some cooler temperatures and getting ready to kick off fall

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and go into this OND time. As you all know who listen to this, I'm

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sure it's pretty busy for everyone, but we're

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rocking and rolling right now and starting off the, the month strong over here.

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You know, I, I think I mentioned this when we're off camera a little bit

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that I had done some business with McFerson Winery

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and you mentioned that they're still in business out there and they were,

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I bought Ron varietals from them and they still is that sort of the main

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varietal area for that part of the wine trade in, in

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Texas. And so they are big influences

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with the French Rome varietals and then of course some Italian and Spanish

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varietals as well. So anything that grows well with that

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warmer, I mean we might as well not warmer, hot

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and dry climate is what it is. So

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we, but, but Kim McPherson has been such a pioneer, especially

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leading the French, Rhone and Spanish and Italian varietals

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in Texas. And so like I was telling you, Paul, you know, that was my

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first job in the industry. So I am very fortunate to be

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able to learn from such a pioneer. In this space

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as we were trying to find a way in which

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I got tagged by the state of Texas. And for the listeners understanding

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the three tier process in America, shipping, alcohol and wine particularly,

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I was trying to find a way with Jim to produce

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a methodology to get wines in the hands of the consumers of Texas. I just

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did it anyway. We never reached an agreement, not because he didn't feel like it,

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just, it was too much work. So we just started shipping

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and I got tagged by the state. They made me sign a contract saying I

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would never do it again, but continued to do it

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and, and then we finally paid our taxes on it and everything was

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fine. But we, we actually had an auditor come from the state of

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Texas sit right behind me here and,

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and figure out how much sales tax I owe them. Yeah,

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they, they come in and do those audits quite a bit. Was that pre Covid

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or post Covid? Oh wait, wait, pre Covet? Yeah.

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So look, I mean Covid didn't do, you know, that

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wasn't a good time for any of us. But I have noticed most of those

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TABC audits are more so through email now. They don't

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actually come into your facility. I was shocked that she

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showed up with a book and a computer and we gave her a room and

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I don't know, we, we had, we had done it right. She just, they just

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were checking on us. They did it twice actually. Anyway, now why we're here, we

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had this conversation. But you, you know, your, your name

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came to me through Paul McBray, one of the great digital sort of think

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tank people in this industry about what, where the wine trade should go and

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wine be a very specific and deliberate type product that

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we need people like that. And he, he suggested we have a conversation because of

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some of the things you're doing that are unique in the small

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lot bottle world. Tell me what small lot bottles

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does. Yes, so small lot bottles, we are a

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fractionalization company, so that might be a fancy term

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for some of you watching, but really what it is is we are taking

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wine from 750ml bottles or from bulk and then we're putting

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it into a mini bottle. So, so just like this, you might be able

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to see that. So here is one of our bottles. And so these are

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100ml bottles, but we do work with

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primarily 100ml is what we are fractionalizing the wine into.

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And so our biggest mission here is to get more liquid

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on lips and, and to be able to provide a service to our

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wineries to our corporate gifting. So that way we can get wine out to the

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masses. And really, you know, we want these newer generations to start

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drinking wine again. And having the fractionalization

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option is a great entry to, to that

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so they don't have to commit to a full bottle. They get more of an

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experience. We can package these in single serve

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formats or in a four pack, single, six pack, so on and so

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forth. And of course on the education side as well, which

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we, I'm sure we'll dive into a little bit more. But that is really where,

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where our main focus is, is just trying to get more wine and more

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liquid on lips. You know that's interesting

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thought. Let me just for the listeners, sort of divide this out for them.

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700100 milliliters bottle. 100 milliliters

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says most American around the ounce. And the UK system

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would be if you were to take a 750 milliliter bottle of wine,

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a standard bottle of wine and you were at a restaurant, you'd probably

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pour five glasses from that, something in that range and that would be

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150ml or 150ml worth of wine for each

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glass. You're talking about a little smaller than

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that. So maybe you know what would be a six bottle pour

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or six, six pores per bottle kind

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of thing. And there was a company that started. Years ago,

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Tasting Room online. Yeah, well that's really old, but

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there's. Vinove, there's Tubes USA Wine and

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Tubes. There is,

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there's a, there's a few out there, but all kind of a little bit different.

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The reason I brought that up was I thought a Tasting Room was an old

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company for, owned by Gearlings and Wade. I think at time, at some point

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I thought when the idea came out that this was kind of whack, you know,

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and I'm an old guy, I'm old traditionalist that this is 750 milliliters. Why

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would you want anything else? But the company that I'm referring to, I can't remember

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the name still, you know, survived it all.

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And the idea was you got three different test

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tube size samples and you could get online and buy more if you

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wanted. Is that the continued model of most of these companies that offer you

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a chance to taste a wine at 100ml and then buy more.

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Yeah. So I think that's definitely one angle of it that is

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not so much our angle of it, but that is one. And so we,

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we do offer that for certain winery clients for corporate gifting.

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Clients, of course, depending on what.

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It all depends on what their objective objective is and their call to

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action. And then that, and then we formulate whatever that package looks like.

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But I think one of the biggest things is what we know is

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the brand awareness. It's using excess inventory.

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We can't guarantee that people, especially this new generation,

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I think when we're talking the younger millennials, the new Gen Z's, we

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can't guarantee that they're going to get this and then go buy another bottle of

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wine. We, we would hope that. And we're doing some

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data tracking to see what those type of conversion rates are.

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But we do know that it is brand awareness. It's getting

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an experience out to our customers or their

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customers and also gaining attraction for new

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potential customers within that as well. And so, and then like we talked

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about, there's so much wine sitting out there right now, and we've got to do

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something different than the traditional 750ml bottle.

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That's clearly not working. Wine cells are down. So we have

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to elevate, we have to provide an experience and we have to set. The wine

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industry has to set itself apart in this. You know, when we're

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talking about Alpev in general, single serve formats have been

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in the market forever. When it comes to little shooter sizes, you

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know, you can buy, you know, beer is essentially, you know, that's, that's a different

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conversation. But, but that's where we have to kind of differentiate ourselves.

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And that's where we come in to really provide that service. So the

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winery doesn't have to do it, but we are here to lend a hand and

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say, hey, let's think differently about this. Let's look at some different

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formats and different packaging. And what could this look, look like?

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And what, and what's your biggest objective?

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So you're, you're still kind of on the wholesale side, or

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does it sound like you're selling some of these brands as well? Are you

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strictly. For instance, you mentioned early on that you would pour out

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750mls and put them back into 150 or 100

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and you, or you could take in a Tetra Tech bladder of wines and do

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it that way. But are you then sort of a job shop for them

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or you actually have them on your website selling the wines as well, or

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both? Well, a little bit of both. But so really where we

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are selling things on our website is for one of our education clients. So we

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do all of the education for Napa Valley Wine Academy, their

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anchor client. As well of Quarter Masters of

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America's as well as Culinary Institute of America. So all

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of their wine education we handle. So certain courses

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from there are sold online. But then there we essentially have a service

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contract. They tell us which wines they want, we go out and source those. So

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we're a full winery. We're a full winery, full tax paid wine bottling

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house. We have all of our licenses for direct to consumer shipping.

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But on the winery side, it is a little bit different where we're more of

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a service. You know, they provide us the wine and then they're just asking us

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to bottle it down, package it and then get it back to them or ship

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it to their final customer as well. Just kind of depending on how,

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how that partnership looks like it might vary from client

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to client and depending where that winery is located.

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And so how did you stumble across? I mean, I see the need.

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Certainly there's a need out there. Again, I was old guy, so I'm like,

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well, who would do this? But obviously it's working. What.

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How did this happen? I mean, just for fun. Yeah. So

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a little bit of background. Yeah, a little bit of background. So

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Taste of Confidence was the original company name. It still is

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Taste of Confidence, but we, we've added DBA small lot bottles. And so

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Taste of Confidence was started by two brothers in Australia.

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And then I came on to launch the United States side of the

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business. And that was all right after Covid. I mean, my

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goodness, I wish we were six months earlier. It would have been a game changer.

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But it was right after Covid, right after things were kind of back

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online in 2021. And that's where we started with Napa Valley Wine

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Academy as our anchor client. And we still hold true to that. We work with

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them on a daily basis and we're so fortunate for that partnership. But

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we, over the last several years, we just saw a

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few different things within the industry. And where I was going back and forth to

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Napa and seeing what was needed. The original owners had a

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different kind of direction that they wanted to go with more of a tech side.

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So, you know, of course, like Paul Mabry, like all the, all the tech

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things. And I was like, look, I think we just really need to offer

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a solution. We need it seamless, we need it efficient, and we need it

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simple. And we need a very low risk for these wineries.

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And so I really wanted to align ourselves with just bottling,

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production and fulfillment. And they wanted to do more tech side. So

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they're kind of focused on There and then that's when I rebranded

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to small lot bottles. And we have now really

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aligned and partnered with some great people with

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Coravin. We're the North American hub for Corvin Venitas and for their

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bottle, which is this one that I just showed, and then also

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their equipment and then as well as wine and wine and tubes and so we

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offer a few different formats, which has really helped set us apart

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because now we can give the client exactly what they would like. Very interesting thought

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process that you've been through. And I think what, you know, Mr.

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Mabray, you know, brought you into the fold here because,

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you know, there's a whole conversation about innovation and the wine trade.

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You know, I, I consider innovation on many, many fronts as

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anybody else would. There's technical innovation, there's, there's packaging innovation,

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there's, there's manufacturing innovation, there's

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experiential innovation. So this is an interesting thought process

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because, you know, I noticed that the canned section, so I'm trying to focus

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now on the sort of serving size. And a few years ago

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during the summer, I tasted a hundred canned wines.

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And they, they were bottled, they were canned in four or

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five different sizes. There was 200, 250, 375, 500,

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and even I don't think there are any 750s. But you know, those,

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a few of those are standard looking cans for people that like 375 is a

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beer can and the 500 is like a large beer can. But

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I don't see that, you know, I, we did okay with it, but. And I

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tasted a lot of really good wines in them. I, I tasted vintage, appellated

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wines that I thought were pretty good Loi Cabernet and one called Freak show and

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whatever. And, but I see the section of

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those wines at the markets continually dropping in size.

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What's happening? And I, I think it's the can. I think

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honestly it's, it's the can concept. And I'm not sure,

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I know there's, there's been innovation with that between the

225
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aluminum liners and different things, not degrading the wine and stuff. So I know

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they've made great advancements, but I think there's a, you know,

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wine is, wine is a traditional elevated

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beverage. And so it, it was just like we had to innovate. Going

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from pet to glass. We have to, you know,

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wine, we want other people to drink wine and we want them to

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have fun and to be able to experience it, which is what we get to

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do with these many bottles because it takes the stress

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out of it. You're not buying $150 bottle of wine that you may or

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may not like. But what I think on the can side is it doesn't

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represent the wine well. It doesn't represent the industry well or the tradition

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associated with the wine industry and the,

237
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you know, hundreds and hundreds of years of

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winemaking. It does. I don't believe it supports that. Well, it doesn't support

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that initiative. And if. If we're talking to that younger generation,

240
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they're going to go pick up a can of White Claw or a can of

241
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High Noon before they ever go grab a can of wine.

242
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Yeah, I would make. That makes sense.

243
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And that's. That's the end of the day. We've got to find. We got

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to get this. These new generations to drink wine because we're run. You know, we're

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running out of baby boomers. We're running out like we're going to, you know, the

246
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people who have kept the wine industry alive are, you know,

247
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not drinking as much or passing on and, you know, different things. So we've got

248
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it. We've got to think differently there. Well, as a baby boomer, I think

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of my mortality regularly. So I

250
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know, well, keep drinking wine and I'm sure you'll be

251
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fine. Yes. Actually, what happened was when I sold the Wine of the Month

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club, the gentleman that bought it, the group that wanted nothing to do

253
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with the stuff I'd collected. And a lot of I collected during COVID because people

254
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were buying whatever I asked them to buy. And so I have this incredible collection

255
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,720
somewhere floating around 25 to 3,000 bottles

256
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that I had no place to put. So I finally built the seller

257
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at home. But they're all three. They're all 750s, I can tell you that much.

258
00:16:02,740 --> 00:16:05,740
You know, it's interesting. Let me just sort of play devil's advocate here for a

259
00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:09,220
second. I've had many, many guests on the show.

260
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One woman insisted that Lafitte Rasheed would be in a can one day.

261
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Of course, that would never happen. I've had another woman on the show

262
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of a brand that was bottling can.

263
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Bottling things in 375s. Like, that was something

264
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new. I mean, we. There's 375 has been around since I worked my dad's store

265
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in 1972. And I. I didn't find that innovative and.

266
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And being pitched as premium wine. And it wasn't

267
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premium. I mean, it really wasn't premium. But then the devil's

268
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advocate part is, you know, whiny baby, which is this Gen Z

269
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idea that just got bought by Gallo.

270
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It's all, it's all, it's all in 750s. Does that mean the Gen

271
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,520
Z's are drinking 750s? I. Well,

272
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,680
do you know what type of varietal it is or are there multiple? Because I,

273
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,360
I think that has a big role to play it in. The studies that I've

274
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seen is, you know, rose and sparkling still all time highs. And

275
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so I think, you know, you see, let's go to brunch with my

276
00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:11,590
girlfriends, let's get bubbles, let's get rose, let's have a girl's night

277
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rose all day, all of those things. So I would be interested to know

278
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just on that whiny baby side what those varietals are. Because

279
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is it, is it a deep, heavy cab? Because if it is,

280
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let's find, you know, we need to continue to do that research to see where

281
00:17:26,110 --> 00:17:29,870
that is. But I Do you know that off. The top of your head, just

282
00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:32,550
a number? I don't know exactly. I know there's a few. I don't remember if

283
00:17:32,550 --> 00:17:35,190
there's a deep red. I think there might be a, you know, a deeper

284
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:40,270
red. I think it's a crown cap. I have to look

285
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that up. But it's kind of funny because I was driving home. Go ahead. I

286
00:17:44,110 --> 00:17:47,910
think the crown cap and just that convenience piece is, it's such a huge

287
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piece. Especially in today's time. Everyone wants something

288
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convenient. They're not carrying around corkscrews. They're not, you know, doing

289
00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:58,500
different things. But I mean, I guess with the crown cap you would still need,

290
00:17:59,540 --> 00:18:03,340
you know, it's not, it's still, it's not. Screw cap. Yeah. So you're still

291
00:18:03,340 --> 00:18:07,060
going to need. I got my screw cap, I got my corer right here on

292
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:10,540
my keychain. Look at that. See, you're. There you go. That's.

293
00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:14,380
That's my kind. See, I always have the cork screw with the knife on

294
00:18:14,380 --> 00:18:17,500
it. And so it gets taken every time I'm at the airport because I forget

295
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:21,350
to clean out my purse. But. But yeah, you know, that

296
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:24,270
is an interesting point that you bring up there with that, with that brand.

297
00:18:25,230 --> 00:18:27,950
Well, I thought, I was thinking about today driving home. I had just, I had

298
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got an email for somebody that was really, really made me angry. And I thought

299
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to myself, what a whiny baby. And then I realized that the company that

300
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sent me the email is a bunch of gen zers. And I thought,

301
00:18:38,670 --> 00:18:42,470
hey, that's where the Name came from whining. Whining about stuff. And I was

302
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:46,230
like, give me a break. And I don't mean to dissolve gen zers.

303
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:49,550
I have, I raised three millennials. You know, that's not a problem. I get it.

304
00:18:49,550 --> 00:18:53,080
I'm a baby boomer. I'm sure my parents had their opinions of my

305
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,680
personality traits as a, as a, as a group. So.

306
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,720
So you have then bottling lines there. You have

307
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,720
all you need. You can with the, you know, I, I spent a lot of

308
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,440
time in, in packaging shows. I, you know, I used to have packaging lines here

309
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,840
where I box boxes. So I have full understanding of how those machines work.

310
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,520
Do you have you the test tube size and you have

311
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,090
the 375 size. And so what's the largest format that you buy that you

312
00:19:19,090 --> 00:19:22,170
bottle? We really, we don't really go over

313
00:19:22,170 --> 00:19:25,970
187. And that's really just if a client really

314
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specifies the 187. And that's of course, as we both know,

315
00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:33,530
been around for it for ages now. So we really like to stay in

316
00:19:33,530 --> 00:19:37,090
the 100ml, but do a four pack. So then you're getting, you know, just,

317
00:19:37,650 --> 00:19:41,090
just over a half a bottle of wine, about 13, 14

318
00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:44,930
ounces of wine right there. But it's more of that experience. And so whether

319
00:19:44,930 --> 00:19:48,610
it's a gift, whether it's, you know, Christmas time or birthday or

320
00:19:48,610 --> 00:19:52,330
girls night or whatever it is, you're still able to provide that experience. So

321
00:19:52,810 --> 00:19:56,650
187 are great. You know, if, if we land, you know, different

322
00:19:56,890 --> 00:20:00,690
contracts and different partnerships where that's just what they request, we can absolutely

323
00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:04,370
do it. It's just not something that we put a lot of

324
00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:07,610
focus in. So for the listeners,

325
00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:11,500
187 is commonly called a split. And it's was

326
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:15,340
mostly used in the old days for the little bottles of champagne you might buy

327
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at a grocery store or maybe on the airplane that you'd get

328
00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:22,740
that. Which I think that single surf size is still great. Especially when

329
00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:26,300
we're talking about these new generations and sparkling like you, you

330
00:20:26,380 --> 00:20:30,140
bring up. You know, I think people love that. People love a quick,

331
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:33,820
easy glass that they can just grab, throw in their cooler bag,

332
00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:37,140
whatever it is. And they don't, again, they don't have to commit to that, that

333
00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:40,900
full amount. But what, what's nice about our 100ml is

334
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:44,620
it's giving you just that perfect taste. You're at 3.4

335
00:20:44,620 --> 00:20:48,260
ounces, it's TSA friendly, so you

336
00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:51,500
can pack it in your carry on. You don't have to check it which is.

337
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,460
Wow, what an interesting thought. Yeah, never thought of that.

338
00:20:55,260 --> 00:20:58,940
Well, it works really well for gifting. So if you're, if you're out in Napa,

339
00:20:58,940 --> 00:21:02,620
we just, we had kits launch at Oakville Grocer last month.

340
00:21:02,620 --> 00:21:06,440
So if you're out in Napa on you know, husband wife trip or

341
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,120
girls trip and you're like hey, I need to take home some souvenirs. Boom, you

342
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:13,680
can grab that at Oakville Grocer. And then you're, all you're doing it is throwing

343
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,200
it in your suitcase and you're going through carry on or you know, in your

344
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,960
carry on through TSA and you're, you're totally fine. So it's the perfect

345
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,720
thing that you can take home to your mother in law who's watching the kids,

346
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,520
your dog sitter, whatever that may be. But that's what, that's why

347
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:32,330
we like that, that size and then specifically we like that

348
00:21:32,330 --> 00:21:36,050
size so we can have more than just one varietal. We, we don't want to

349
00:21:36,050 --> 00:21:39,890
just have one varietal in there. So you could bring on the

350
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:43,690
plane a little six pack or four pack of, of one

351
00:21:43,770 --> 00:21:47,490
of one hundreds and that would qualify

352
00:21:47,490 --> 00:21:50,970
as long as they're separated by the, you know, the container itself.

353
00:21:51,290 --> 00:21:55,130
Yes, yes. So of course you, not of course

354
00:21:55,130 --> 00:21:58,960
you cannot consume it. Well, I mean so they say you can't

355
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,760
consume it if you don't get caught. Who am I to say? But, but,

356
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,280
but it goes through. I'm like, I mean I'm not gonna make

357
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,640
judgments about the people listening to show where they're going to try and open, uncork

358
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,400
a bottle of wine or a thumb test tube. But I just

359
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,600
thought of something. I have very, very close friends here in Los Angeles who started

360
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,280
a RTD cocktail called the Knox and Dobson. Really quite

361
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,100
special. And I even had a, a taste test against my classic

362
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:27,540
Martini and my classic Manhattan and I barely squeeze by

363
00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:32,020
the wind with my son in laws because they're so good

364
00:22:32,420 --> 00:22:36,260
and you know, oh wow. And I was and one of

365
00:22:36,260 --> 00:22:39,980
their marketplaces that they've, that they've stumbled across accidentally and I'm thinking about

366
00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:43,780
this for some of these wineries is you know, in room

367
00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:47,700
mini bars because you're not going to take out a 50ml

368
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:51,200
little airplane bottle. You're not going to, you know, that's just this is already mixed.

369
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,000
They're premium. And I thought, you know, I just, we were just in Napa at

370
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,720
the Yanville estate just last week and

371
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,480
there was a Bottle. What's that? Well,

372
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,239
exactly. And who's opening up a 750mil bottle? Nobody. I

373
00:23:06,239 --> 00:23:09,800
always bring it home. Exactly. You bring it home or

374
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,640
it's wasted. And so that's where we are in talks

375
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,450
with a few different hotels where, hey, you know, would

376
00:23:17,450 --> 00:23:21,250
this, would you like this? Because this, these are the brands we can put in

377
00:23:21,250 --> 00:23:24,730
there. And so there are, there are some different conversations that we have there where

378
00:23:24,730 --> 00:23:28,250
we, we bring the wine brand to actually new,

379
00:23:29,290 --> 00:23:32,970
like a new customer base, essentially. So when, when a

380
00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:36,730
wine brand comes to you, what's their typical, like,

381
00:23:37,050 --> 00:23:40,730
let's turn around the old sales. You know, here's my problem. Do you have a

382
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:44,290
fix? What's their typical. What do they describe as their typical

383
00:23:44,290 --> 00:23:47,770
need? Well, their typical need

384
00:23:48,010 --> 00:23:51,690
is do you have a list of people who would drink our wine and

385
00:23:51,690 --> 00:23:55,450
who will they want to sell wine? Which I, I get. And I mean, that's,

386
00:23:56,170 --> 00:23:59,890
that's on one hand where it's always like, okay, well, who's going to buy my

387
00:23:59,890 --> 00:24:03,050
wine? And do you have a list of people to introduce it to? And it's

388
00:24:03,050 --> 00:24:06,690
like, no, we don't have the list, but we have the concept that will

389
00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:10,380
help you target a new list. And, and so that's kind

390
00:24:10,380 --> 00:24:13,580
of, you know, that's like a funny people always say, like, well, we want, you

391
00:24:13,580 --> 00:24:16,180
know, they want a list of people to send their wine to. And it's like

392
00:24:16,180 --> 00:24:20,020
that, that's what you're supposed to be growing at your tasting room. And

393
00:24:20,020 --> 00:24:23,380
so for the most part, it's them coming to us to

394
00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:26,820
just as a service, to bottle the wine and package it

395
00:24:27,460 --> 00:24:31,300
so they can use it as retail kits, direct to consumer kits. Each

396
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:35,050
one's a little bit different. Internal tasting kits for new

397
00:24:35,050 --> 00:24:38,570
vintages, new winery releases

398
00:24:38,810 --> 00:24:42,530
or grand openings, getting the word out. So each one

399
00:24:42,530 --> 00:24:46,130
is a little bit different. We haven't quite cracked the code on like,

400
00:24:46,130 --> 00:24:49,970
okay, every winery is going to want this because each winery is

401
00:24:49,970 --> 00:24:53,450
different based on size. Are they a boutique urban winery? Are they

402
00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:57,130
commercial? Are they enterprise? What, what is. What is it? Because each

403
00:24:57,130 --> 00:25:00,810
one's a little bit different there. So we see a wide range of

404
00:25:00,810 --> 00:25:03,640
different use cases. When it comes to the winery side,

405
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,520
it's interesting. You know, there's a whole bunch of statistics out there, metrics.

406
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,880
And I'm from a marketing standpoint, I have my definite

407
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,240
opinions on marketing metrics. However,

408
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,880
there is that metric that says most wine that's bottled and sold in a

409
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,560
supermarket is consumed within two years or 48 hours

410
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,280
or whatever the number is. Certainly not meant to age. And,

411
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,920
and as I think in general knowledge in the wine world, small formats

412
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,680
don't age as long as larger formats. And so it's interesting

413
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,800
that, that the sizes around and

414
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,640
obviously the longevity of the wine is not going to be as long as even

415
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,880
a 750 or a Jeroboam or 3 liter. But,

416
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,320
but that's not meant to do that. No, it is not. And so

417
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,960
we have a shelf life of about 12 months, especially on our Corbin bottle.

418
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,770
It's about 12 months shelf life. And the, but what we, I mean, we

419
00:25:57,770 --> 00:26:01,490
always want to encourage people like, don't hold this. This is gift it,

420
00:26:01,570 --> 00:26:05,290
enjoy it. Or if you're, if the winery is

421
00:26:05,290 --> 00:26:09,090
contracting it. And, you know, they, they. We bottle just in

422
00:26:09,090 --> 00:26:12,770
time. And so we have a really quick turnaround time. They tell

423
00:26:12,770 --> 00:26:15,770
us, hey, like, we have an event middle of November. Can we get you wine?

424
00:26:15,770 --> 00:26:19,330
So we want it to be the freshest, best experience for their

425
00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:23,090
customers. But exactly, it's. We're not holding this wine. We're

426
00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:26,920
not aging this wine. We are drinking it. We're enjoying it. And then you're

427
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,680
gifting it on to your, your best friends, your family members, whatever

428
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,480
that may be, because our hope is that you had such a great experience

429
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,240
there. So then it's like, hey, let's keep doing this. And that's, that's really

430
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,040
where, you know, it's, it's kind of funny because especially on our education side,

431
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,880
there's a lot of like, okay, well, what's the shelf life? Conversations? And we have

432
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,440
to know that, and that's super important. But our biggest thing is we want,

433
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,520
we want students or customers to be able to consume these

434
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,640
quite quickly so that way they can enjoy it versus hold on to it.

435
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,240
So do, do winers really send you, like a palette, you know, for,

436
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,960
what's that, 560 bottles and say, pour this

437
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,280
into, you know, the vat. Now, let's just talk about that for a second. From

438
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,120
a technical standpoint, we always pitched to our customers all

439
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,720
these years. That wine is a pretty resilient product, actually. It

440
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,480
travels many times across the ocean, down, jostled around in

441
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,040
the boat. You know, at the bottom level. You know, temperature is important,

442
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,520
but vibration is just as important.

443
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,160
Light sources are important. So those things all play into the longevity

444
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,479
of a wine. Do. Is that bottle of

445
00:27:35,479 --> 00:27:39,280
187 or 100ml a

446
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,960
good representation of that wine once it's been

447
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,240
bottled? Let's see, vented, bottled,

448
00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:49,430
uncorked, poured, then rebottled. Yes.

449
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:52,910
So we have done quite corvin. Whenever they first

450
00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:56,390
launched this glass and equipment they did quite the extensive beta

451
00:27:56,390 --> 00:27:59,550
testing with brands of the caliber of like

452
00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:03,390
Harlan. And we have now come in with

453
00:28:03,550 --> 00:28:07,150
so many of our own beta testings doing side by sides with

454
00:28:07,550 --> 00:28:10,510
several different brands. I mean we on average have about

455
00:28:10,510 --> 00:28:14,160
400SKs in in house and inventory and

456
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,720
so all of that is side by side tested. We have

457
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,400
a very intense haccp and quality control process

458
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,320
to catch any things because there is a chance that the wine a bottle comes

459
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,000
in court. So we have to, we check everything at

460
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,760
time of arrival, we check everything before bottling and then we have

461
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,200
a true process all the way through the finish line. But we have done

462
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,080
so many side by sides in person with

463
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,750
clients and everything. And so it does represent the, the

464
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:47,510
wine exactly the way it should be. And that's one of what, what's important

465
00:28:47,510 --> 00:28:51,350
to us mostly is keeping the integrity of the wine. We don't ever want to

466
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:55,070
put your name on a product that you don't have the

467
00:28:55,070 --> 00:28:58,790
stamp of approval on. So we do a lot of testing and pilot projects

468
00:28:58,790 --> 00:29:02,590
before we do, you know, full large production runs. I

469
00:29:02,590 --> 00:29:06,270
didn't even think of that. That cork bottle. I mean there's actually

470
00:29:06,670 --> 00:29:10,410
in a little bit of an incidence lately from it. But you know, I'm

471
00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:13,850
trying to look at my emails here. That's why it looked, I look distracted but

472
00:29:13,930 --> 00:29:17,650
I think the Coravin developer, the guy is

473
00:29:17,650 --> 00:29:21,370
coming on the show, he's out in LA for something soon

474
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:25,610
and he's coming on to talk about it. You know we used to see that

475
00:29:25,610 --> 00:29:29,050
all the time here obviously our tasting room every Tuesday.

476
00:29:30,410 --> 00:29:33,610
Half, I would say half of the vendors would use a Coravan for the wines

477
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:37,420
to you know, obviously if you don't have to open a whole 750 to pour

478
00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:41,260
off a couple ounces at an account. So

479
00:29:41,260 --> 00:29:45,020
I'd say about half of them used it. But I'm interested to hear from this

480
00:29:45,020 --> 00:29:48,220
gentleman when he shows up. So what is the Coravan brand there that you have?

481
00:29:48,220 --> 00:29:52,020
What are they, what's, what's unique about it? So it's not, it's. The

482
00:29:52,020 --> 00:29:55,860
Corbin Minitas is a machine. It's not like the need. I mean it's, it's a

483
00:29:55,860 --> 00:29:59,540
similar technology to the needle but it's not the actual, you know,

484
00:30:00,380 --> 00:30:03,820
little handheld Corbin what they're known for. So

485
00:30:04,460 --> 00:30:08,180
what you can see here is there's, there's a sticker over here but

486
00:30:08,180 --> 00:30:11,740
let me just kind of remove this for all intensive

487
00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:15,820
purposes of this podcast So y' all can really see. So

488
00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:20,020
the bottle is never uncapped. So if

489
00:30:20,020 --> 00:30:23,420
this bottle goes into a machine and then it

490
00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:27,120
fills through here. And so this bottle

491
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,560
is purged with argon, then filled and then topped with

492
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,920
argon. And so we, we use argon for everything. Not

493
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,680
nitrogen. And it's just a little bit softer on, on the wine. But so

494
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,520
we. Anyways, long story short, that's, that's how. That's a little

495
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,200
bit different. So that needle technology is poking through there. So the

496
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,040
only time the wine, the original 750ml bottle is exposed to

497
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,280
any oxygen is only at the time of

498
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,910
uncorking. And then that's all in an inertia protected environment

499
00:30:56,470 --> 00:31:00,110
and you're immediately sticking in the hose and then it

500
00:31:00,110 --> 00:31:03,830
starts pulling out. So that's, it's what really unique just

501
00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:07,470
not having to let these wines sit or wait for a

502
00:31:07,470 --> 00:31:10,870
cap or anything. So the second it is going in there, it's protected.

503
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:15,910
That's interesting. Let's, let's talk about that for a second. Argon. Just for the

504
00:31:15,910 --> 00:31:19,710
listeners. The, the inert gases that they use at

505
00:31:19,710 --> 00:31:23,530
wineries have been argon, they've been nitrogen. I've even sent blends

506
00:31:23,530 --> 00:31:26,170
of that. There used to be a product that we sold here for a while

507
00:31:26,170 --> 00:31:29,930
called Private Preserve. There's another one called Vineyard Fresh, where it's

508
00:31:30,010 --> 00:31:33,770
where you, you use a little WD40 tube,

509
00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:38,050
for lack of a better description and stick it in the bottle. And I use

510
00:31:38,050 --> 00:31:41,810
it at home. Although, you

511
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:45,650
know, frankly having a. Not finishing off a bottle doesn't happen very often

512
00:31:45,650 --> 00:31:48,600
around my house. But if it does,

513
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,760
it's good for a day or two, you know, I. Right. Without any

514
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,040
degradation. But it, yeah, you know, once you get over half a bottle

515
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,360
tends not to be that great. But this is a good solution.

516
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,080
Absolutely. You can really. And I'll, you know, being in the wine industry, I

517
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,880
get, I get real picky. My. We were actually on a date

518
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,640
night the other night and had a bottle or had a glass of wine and

519
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,480
my glass of wine tasted so much better than

520
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,640
my boyfriend's and we were laughing about that. I was like, well, I was like,

521
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,240
I have a brand new bottle. But you know, it was different because

522
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,400
depending on where that is in the bottle, like sometimes it's nice,

523
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,080
it's a little bit more open. It's really, it's great.

524
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,280
But you know, if you held that one more day, you're gonna have a problem.

525
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,440
Whereas like one, a brand new bottle, it's a little tight, you need to

526
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,240
let it open up. You need to aerate it a little bit. So it just

527
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,790
brings out different characteristics of the wine, and it

528
00:32:45,790 --> 00:32:49,590
all determines on how long that bottle has been open and

529
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:53,270
then where in the bottle is, is it at? Because that

530
00:32:53,270 --> 00:32:56,830
makes a huge difference. And we were actually talking about it like, man,

531
00:32:57,710 --> 00:33:01,230
if restaurants even had, you know, some type of concept of.

532
00:33:01,470 --> 00:33:04,790
Of this with maybe it's not 100 mil, maybe it's

533
00:33:04,790 --> 00:33:08,590
187 or something. But, you know, it would just be interesting to see

534
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,920
what their. What their loss is like and waste and

535
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,720
some of those conversion numbers, because I'm sure there. There's quite a bit of it

536
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,640
because you just, you never know if somebody's gonna

537
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,600
be in and finish off that bottle in the next day or if you're gonna

538
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,960
just dump it down the drain. I can tell you from experience,

539
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,560
obviously, as you said, you're in the business, so you watch this. But my wife,

540
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,040
I usually have martinis or Manhattan, so when I'm out, unless it's something very

541
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,040
unique, but she, you know, we, we're very peculiar, very

542
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,280
conscious about what is in that glass when we order by the glass.

543
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,800
And we've sent many, many, many glasses back for a lot of different

544
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,040
reasons. And we even sent a bottle back the other day at

545
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,480
Chichio because it was bubbly.

546
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,720
And that's usually a heat problem, right? That's usually from heat.

547
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,120
And they tried to tell me, which was kind of annoying, that.

548
00:34:02,420 --> 00:34:06,100
That this was the way the wine tasted. I go, look, roasted. A

549
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:09,940
monster chino does not have bubbles. I can pretty much commit to that. Promise you.

550
00:34:09,940 --> 00:34:11,860
Yeah. But.

551
00:34:13,780 --> 00:34:17,580
Their answers, I'm like, okay, okay, well, sure. So

552
00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:19,420
then I gave my car on the way, I said, you know, I've been doing

553
00:34:19,420 --> 00:34:23,060
this for 35 years. And I tasted a hundred thousand wines. And I can pretty

554
00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:25,660
much commit to you that's not the case. But let me tell you another quick

555
00:34:25,660 --> 00:34:29,400
story. We're in Monterey at the Concord Elegance. We were

556
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,240
having an incredible time watching the cars dread on the street. This is the night

557
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:35,880
before it starts. We're at a bar, and I'm right in front of the waiter

558
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,440
station, right next to it. And behind the bar, the bar

559
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,160
backside, there was all these Crane Lake wines, which

560
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,920
is a classic distributor. The Franzia Classic

561
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,440
Distributorship sold Crane Lake as a house poor for a lot of restaurants.

562
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,440
Anyway, somebody had decided their infinite wisdom to. To write giant

563
00:34:54,750 --> 00:34:58,110
black felt pen letters on the label what date they open the wine.

564
00:34:58,430 --> 00:35:01,790
And the Pinot Noir that was front and center had Been open maybe two weeks

565
00:35:01,790 --> 00:35:05,390
earlier. Just. I just happened to notice this and a, a woman,

566
00:35:05,390 --> 00:35:08,990
a waitress came up and said, glass of Pinot to the, to the

567
00:35:08,990 --> 00:35:12,670
bartender. He didn't even look at it. So he started to pour this

568
00:35:12,670 --> 00:35:15,470
right in front of me. And I said, I go, that's coming back. He goes,

569
00:35:15,470 --> 00:35:18,310
what do you mean, sir? I go, well, look at the date. I go, even

570
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:22,150
Crane Lake can't last that long with all the sugar in it. And he goes,

571
00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:25,070
thanks a lot. You know, thank you for stopping that. I mean, you appreciate it,

572
00:35:25,070 --> 00:35:28,370
actually. And I thought, wow, what do. Interesting use this might be, even though on

573
00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:32,130
a per. And that leads me to another question. But on a

574
00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:35,850
per glass basis, it might be a little more money. But man, the,

575
00:35:35,930 --> 00:35:39,250
the, the, the depletion or the loss would be

576
00:35:39,250 --> 00:35:42,810
considerably less. Cons weigh considerably less.

577
00:35:43,530 --> 00:35:46,050
And it is, it would be a little bit more. And I, and I guess

578
00:35:46,050 --> 00:35:49,810
that's pretty much why restaurants, you know, one, their glass price is

579
00:35:49,810 --> 00:35:53,570
the bottle price, so it doesn't matter if they sell one glass. They, they

580
00:35:53,570 --> 00:35:57,210
covered their, their cost on it. So I understand that

581
00:35:57,210 --> 00:36:01,050
concept, but I just also am like, but you're wasting. So, you know, like, let's

582
00:36:01,050 --> 00:36:04,370
talk about the waste piece of it. Like, you're covering your cost, but then we're

583
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:08,170
just wasting, like. And I mean, that's a different conversation for a different

584
00:36:08,170 --> 00:36:12,010
time. But I think there, there will be some breakthrough and some innovation

585
00:36:12,010 --> 00:36:15,770
that comes in on the, on that. On the restaurant side. And I think we'll

586
00:36:15,770 --> 00:36:19,400
see it with newer restaurants popping up and, and it just

587
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,160
depends on the demographic that they're tailoring to as well. Well, I,

588
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,720
that's partially true, I think, but forget the waste

589
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:30,320
part, which, yes, you're right for the listeners. Most restaurants get the

590
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,080
bottle cost out of their first glass, but that first glass that would have gone

591
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,280
out with this Pianoir would have upset somebody and they would have. The waiter had

592
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,480
more time and they had to go argue. And somebody might be intimidated to say

593
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,320
this is bad because they don't know, feel like they have the confidence to do

594
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,840
that. And so it has a whole bunch of ramifications that aren't just dollars and

595
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,670
cents. And what happened to the plastic bottle movement? Are you doing any

596
00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:54,470
pet stuff? We started with pet, but

597
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:58,110
it's again, not a good representation of the wine. The shelf life is

598
00:36:58,110 --> 00:37:01,750
not as long. It's three months. So it just, it doesn't protect the

599
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:05,310
wine. It doesn't protect the integrity of the wine. And that's what we hold true

600
00:37:05,630 --> 00:37:09,390
and in our entire process is we have to keep that integrity of

601
00:37:09,390 --> 00:37:13,030
the wine from start to finish. And so I just didn't feel like we were

602
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:16,690
putting out the best product we could. And I don't, I think

603
00:37:16,690 --> 00:37:20,410
there's probably some innovation. There's things that can happen on the, on the

604
00:37:20,410 --> 00:37:24,250
manufacturing side of that. But I really, now that we're

605
00:37:24,250 --> 00:37:27,650
in glass, I don't, I don't see us ever going backwards there. There's certain

606
00:37:27,730 --> 00:37:31,010
conversations that we have with certain larger

607
00:37:32,290 --> 00:37:36,130
corporations that are just like, hey, we just needed a pet, which

608
00:37:36,130 --> 00:37:39,650
I totally understand, but they just, they get complaints, complaints

609
00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:43,360
24, 7. So it's, it's the cost, you

610
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,040
know, cost from pet to glass is significant, but

611
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,840
I think it's worth it. And we're seeing right now

612
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,680
that it, it definitely has been worth it making, making that switch because we

613
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,960
had a lot of PET heat issues as well. So given

614
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,800
a glass can get warm and they're going to fill it and be like, oh,

615
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,480
that's warm. But the effects on the

616
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,170
wine are not as what they would be with the PET

617
00:38:09,410 --> 00:38:13,010
bottle. You know, there's a, there's a couple of positives and

618
00:38:13,090 --> 00:38:16,770
some negatives. One of the positives is you can

619
00:38:16,770 --> 00:38:20,530
put 36 PET 750s in

620
00:38:20,530 --> 00:38:23,650
the same weight box as 12

621
00:38:24,530 --> 00:38:28,290
glass bottles. So they're a pound each instead of three pounds each.

622
00:38:28,690 --> 00:38:32,370
And you know, as a restaurateur, for instance, if I'm pouring it from behind

623
00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:35,970
the curtain anyway, I'm not sure I care if I can save the space

624
00:38:36,370 --> 00:38:40,130
on having pet. On the flip side of that, there's, there's

625
00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:43,570
a few negatives. One of them, I had a bottle here that

626
00:38:43,650 --> 00:38:47,010
sat here forever. It was probably one of the first PET bottles ever bought. I'm

627
00:38:47,010 --> 00:38:50,810
talking, it's like an 87 Merlot from South Africa. Oh, wow. And

628
00:38:50,810 --> 00:38:54,610
the, the, the lining started

629
00:38:54,610 --> 00:38:58,250
to come off of the plastic. So this got this bizarre

630
00:38:58,250 --> 00:39:02,090
sort of design going on and you're going, oh, that is so gross. That the

631
00:39:02,090 --> 00:39:05,740
lining, the, you know, the grid lining was separating from the

632
00:39:05,740 --> 00:39:09,180
plastic itself and it was turning in this weird thing. It started to suck in.

633
00:39:09,340 --> 00:39:13,100
Oh yeah, you know, the vacuum pack. And then the other

634
00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:15,580
negative that I thought and I had the guy on the show and you know,

635
00:39:15,580 --> 00:39:18,979
he was just doing his job, but he was a PhD out of Cornell and

636
00:39:18,979 --> 00:39:22,140
his job was to find a food grade lining

637
00:39:22,460 --> 00:39:25,900
that was, would stand hold up to wine for 24 months.

638
00:39:26,620 --> 00:39:30,420
And he just thinking that's kind of disgusting. But you know,

639
00:39:30,420 --> 00:39:33,860
Coke is like that. You can't, you can't use the coke grade lining. But

640
00:39:33,940 --> 00:39:37,700
just, just the fact that you're doing research and you're using molecular

641
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:40,500
biology to figure it out. I go, it's kind of gross.

642
00:39:41,540 --> 00:39:45,379
Yeah, I'm right there with you. I, I don't know. It's, it's

643
00:39:45,379 --> 00:39:49,140
there and there's pros and cons on the glass side for sure as you

644
00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:52,940
know, breakage and cost and everything else. But I

645
00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:56,760
just think the pros outweigh, outweigh the cons for the glass

646
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,480
compared to pet. Well that's

647
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,280
interesting. The thought too that which I just,

648
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,200
which just fleeted my brain.

649
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,760
Do you think this affects wineries? You know, direct to consumer stuff

650
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,360
which is I did all my career, you know

651
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,120
shipping wine is expensive. People would come in here with a high punted

652
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,760
bottle in the thick glass and it was tapered and they go isn't this cool?

653
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,180
I go no, that's five pounds And I got to pay for. And I only,

654
00:40:27,180 --> 00:40:30,940
I get charged five pounds. I only get money from my, my customers for three

655
00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:34,220
pounds. So I don't really like them. Right, so

656
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:38,860
is there a dtc? Well, we already mentioned a couple of

657
00:40:38,860 --> 00:40:42,140
the, of the brands that do this but from a, from a winery

658
00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:45,100
standpoint, is there a DTC component to this?

659
00:40:46,220 --> 00:40:49,620
Oh absolutely. So definitely on the direct to

660
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:53,420
consumer side. So we see that a lot. We have winery clients that

661
00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:57,150
put these on their website for stocking stuffers for advent

662
00:40:57,150 --> 00:41:00,910
calendars, whatever it may be. We have a, we have a full custom advent calendar

663
00:41:00,910 --> 00:41:04,270
for this year as well and then they're shipping it direct to consumers so they're

664
00:41:04,270 --> 00:41:07,910
running marketing campaigns. We're also equipped to ship direct to

665
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:11,750
consumer but it just kind of depends on what, what size brand

666
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:14,630
we're dealing with. If we're going to go to one of their three PLs or

667
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:18,310
if we are going to ship it internally. But really

668
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:21,670
it's a huge play. The cost of shipping though.

669
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,560
Yes, they're getting like four different varietals but the cost of shipping

670
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,400
is actually not that significantly cheaper. Weight is a huge

671
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,800
thing so we're saving on weight but we still have the adult signature,

672
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,680
the fuel surcharge, the rural surcharge, all of these surcharges. So

673
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,280
we're still up there no matter what at north

674
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,920
of $20 to ship these ground. And so

675
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,720
it's just, you know, especially during the summer months with the heat and

676
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:52,270
everything, we're know we want to ship ups two day air and

677
00:41:52,510 --> 00:41:56,150
for a six pack of wine going ups two day air, you're looking at

678
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:59,790
$30. So it's really, it's not much cheaper than shipping,

679
00:42:00,430 --> 00:42:04,110
you know, a 750mil bottle. And that's just because,

680
00:42:04,590 --> 00:42:07,550
you know, one of these days I'll. I would love to understand

681
00:42:08,270 --> 00:42:11,990
UPS and their reasonings for everything, but we have to have them and

682
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:15,450
so we have to pay for it really is, is what it is that at

683
00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:19,210
the end of the day. You don't need me. Tell me

684
00:42:19,210 --> 00:42:22,650
about it. I. I found a. One of my dad's charge

685
00:42:22,650 --> 00:42:26,090
cards from 1986 going through some stuff and

686
00:42:26,330 --> 00:42:29,450
we were charging 275 for.

687
00:42:30,890 --> 00:42:34,610
Wow. Now that's less than the. Just the adult signature alone for a two

688
00:42:34,610 --> 00:42:38,010
pack. But here's one of the fallacies of ups which,

689
00:42:38,730 --> 00:42:42,510
which now I don't have to worry about them. I mean they, they literally UPS

690
00:42:42,910 --> 00:42:46,630
before we switched the FedEx and we switched the UPS after their strike in

691
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:50,270
2007 or whatever it was. I just made me so mad. But,

692
00:42:50,350 --> 00:42:53,270
but because it was their way of the highway and it still is kind of

693
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:57,030
like that anyway with FedEx, however. Think

694
00:42:57,030 --> 00:43:00,830
about this for a second. If, if you're receiving

695
00:43:00,910 --> 00:43:03,710
and I know friends of mine that belong to three or four clubs.

696
00:43:04,430 --> 00:43:08,110
I'm as a, as a wholesaler or a retailer would receive

697
00:43:08,110 --> 00:43:10,750
samples all the time, daily I would receive boxes,

698
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,840
you know, and they're getting that dull signature, whatever it is now three

699
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,680
bucks or whatever it is for every package that

700
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,920
comes to my door that day. But there's only one delivery

701
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,160
and that just really used to annoy me.

702
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,960
Exactly. There's no rhyme or reason to it. So yeah, you and

703
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,920
yeah, it's. They're make. I don't know. They, they make so much

704
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,370
money and that's great for them, but I just, I feel like there is,

705
00:43:38,770 --> 00:43:41,570
you know, some ways that it would be nice to be able to work together

706
00:43:41,570 --> 00:43:45,250
on that because it doesn't make sense, especially for you. It should be like you

707
00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:48,690
pay. I don't know, there should be some system where you pay X

708
00:43:48,690 --> 00:43:52,450
amount a month or whatever. You upload your ID and then

709
00:43:52,450 --> 00:43:55,890
you just know that if that name comes across

710
00:43:56,050 --> 00:43:59,090
the database, like we're good, we don't need to charge it.

711
00:44:00,050 --> 00:44:03,370
But who knows? I mean, I think there's a lot of different things that we

712
00:44:03,370 --> 00:44:06,810
could do to make that a little bit easier. But we're probably not going to

713
00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:10,010
move the needle very much to be quite honest. So we just have to work

714
00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:13,850
around it. I can tell you in 1988.

715
00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:17,610
So I'm really dating myself. Nobody cared. You know, FedEx

716
00:44:17,610 --> 00:44:21,050
would come or UPS come the door. You had to handwrite the manifest.

717
00:44:21,289 --> 00:44:24,410
You could throw a hundred boxes in the truck and put 50 on. The manifest

718
00:44:24,650 --> 00:44:28,410
wasn't discussed. And it didn't really matter where it was going though. It was still

719
00:44:28,410 --> 00:44:32,100
illegal. But I got to the point where I had the, the head

720
00:44:32,340 --> 00:44:35,980
legal advisor for UPS on the phone with the head legal

721
00:44:35,980 --> 00:44:39,820
divisor from Missouri because Missouri was a reciprocal state at the

722
00:44:39,820 --> 00:44:43,460
time and got them to meet heads and allow shipping.

723
00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:46,620
And so that had never been done before, the three of them on the phone.

724
00:44:46,620 --> 00:44:49,660
But you could have access to those people at that time. Now it's like impossible

725
00:44:49,660 --> 00:44:53,460
right now. Oh yeah, now you're gonna have. And now it's even worse because it's

726
00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:56,900
not even just like customer service. Now you're going to go through a whole AI

727
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,320
set of people before you even get to speak to somebody. And

728
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,880
it's, it. I don't know, I'm, I'm way

729
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,160
more old school when it comes to, to that. I, I love some

730
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,760
efficiencies of technology and then there's others where I'm like, I just want to talk

731
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,720
to a person, please. And I don't know how many times I have to hit

732
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:18,240
0 for you to listen to me, but you know, it's,

733
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,240
it's crazy out there. Let's, let's, let's, we're at 45 minutes already,

734
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:24,930
if you can believe it. But let me me ask this question. I just came

735
00:45:24,930 --> 00:45:28,650
back from lunch with an AI writer and they're

736
00:45:28,650 --> 00:45:32,330
writing some software for the real estate business. But I study AI and I use

737
00:45:32,330 --> 00:45:36,090
it all the time. And I just wanted to sit on this conversation to

738
00:45:36,090 --> 00:45:39,730
understand how they were, how they were thinking because they're on the back

739
00:45:39,730 --> 00:45:43,090
end training. Is there an

740
00:45:43,090 --> 00:45:46,890
application in the manufacturing side of why. I'm not

741
00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:50,420
talking about, you know, blends and I'm just talking about applying

742
00:45:50,420 --> 00:45:53,820
AI on your side when it comes to innovative packaging.

743
00:45:54,300 --> 00:45:57,740
Innovative ideas. Have you used it? Yeah, we,

744
00:45:58,060 --> 00:46:01,340
we use it all the time. We use it for mock ups. We use it

745
00:46:01,340 --> 00:46:04,820
for creative ideas of like, hey, this is what we're thinking. What are

746
00:46:04,820 --> 00:46:08,660
taglines we could do? I would say we use it more so for packaging and

747
00:46:08,660 --> 00:46:12,380
for, for those packaging mock ups of like, hey, this is what we're thinking.

748
00:46:12,380 --> 00:46:16,060
Can you help us put this together? And it doesn't, it does a fantastic job.

749
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:19,800
We're not paying a designer for it. It's very easy to

750
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,640
put in there exactly what you need and then it's also really nice because

751
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,440
when you're handing that over to your designer, to the manufacturer, to

752
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,200
the print company, whoever that may be, it like, it's, it's perfect.

753
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,760
It's exactly how they see it. You're not then sitting there trying to iterate your

754
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,400
ideas from your head and then being like, no. So we

755
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,240
cut down on time so much because we are, we see it,

756
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,070
we can talk to the computer really quick, get it exactly where we want

757
00:46:46,070 --> 00:46:49,670
it, and then pass that off versus going back and forth multiple

758
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:53,230
times trying to nail down a design. In

759
00:46:53,230 --> 00:46:56,910
1993, I was given a test database for seller management.

760
00:46:57,790 --> 00:47:01,150
I ended up keeping it. And that's where my hundred thousand wines

761
00:47:01,550 --> 00:47:05,390
that I tasted. Well, there's about 60,000 in that database I tasted on site.

762
00:47:06,510 --> 00:47:09,590
And I used to frustrate me that there was no. I didn't have an app

763
00:47:09,590 --> 00:47:13,350
for it. It was written in DOS originally. And so the other day

764
00:47:13,350 --> 00:47:17,110
I sat down with this product called Re Re. And it's a

765
00:47:17,110 --> 00:47:20,950
app generation thing. Now this thing would have cost me 30 grand. In fact,

766
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:24,670
I think I had a quoted years ago to write this app. Took about

767
00:47:25,390 --> 00:47:29,110
probably three, four hours worth of my time to train this thing as

768
00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:32,350
to. When I go to a restaurant, I want to bring up on my phone

769
00:47:34,030 --> 00:47:37,070
a field vintage. The ne. I fill in the vintage I want

770
00:47:37,810 --> 00:47:41,330
varietal, and I fill in the varietal, I want region until I'm done

771
00:47:41,410 --> 00:47:45,170
loading that wine into my database of tasted wines. And so I

772
00:47:45,170 --> 00:47:47,930
can go to a regular tasting now and just pull my phone out instead of

773
00:47:47,930 --> 00:47:51,770
making notes, I just go. And I wrote it. It wrote it

774
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:55,530
like in three hours. And I pay 20 bucks a month, you know,

775
00:47:55,530 --> 00:47:58,690
for this. Exactly, exactly.

776
00:47:59,090 --> 00:48:02,810
It's phenomenal. I

777
00:48:02,810 --> 00:48:06,530
know, it's. It's really incredible. And I'm so grateful for it. I just.

778
00:48:06,820 --> 00:48:10,180
I'm grateful for it when I want to use it, not whenever other people are

779
00:48:10,180 --> 00:48:13,700
forcing me to use it, where I can't talk to people and, and

780
00:48:13,780 --> 00:48:17,140
different things because it is. I think that's one of the biggest things. Like we

781
00:48:17,140 --> 00:48:20,900
all want social interaction. And so it just, it's hard whenever we

782
00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:24,340
see this economy in this world of where we're going and

783
00:48:24,340 --> 00:48:28,020
society of like, you know, everything is technology and

784
00:48:28,340 --> 00:48:32,060
there's amazing benefits to that, and I use them on a daily basis. But

785
00:48:32,060 --> 00:48:35,260
there's, you know, there's just those cons there as well as. As there is with

786
00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:39,020
anything. My wife says you're nicer to the AI person than you are

787
00:48:39,020 --> 00:48:42,700
me. Oh. And you're at the

788
00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:43,900
boyfriend stage. So maybe.

789
00:48:47,180 --> 00:48:50,980
Exactly. And so just wrapping it up. What it's just you out

790
00:48:50,980 --> 00:48:53,660
in the Napa side of things or do you have a team up there? What

791
00:48:53,660 --> 00:48:57,500
do you have? So we do have. We are an AP in

792
00:48:57,500 --> 00:49:01,260
Napa with the wine Foundry. And then I have an amazing board of directors

793
00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:04,480
and board of advisors that have we have some feet on the ground. There's. And

794
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,760
then I'm back and forth and then we all of our headquarters are out of

795
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,560
Lubbock and I've got great team with our director of

796
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,280
sales and account managers, production

797
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,880
managers. So we've got that satellite office in Napa and then we just kind of

798
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,800
divide and conquer as we need depending on production.

799
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,520
Can I tell you my quick Texas story? Then we're going to say goodnight

800
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,400
and that is a woman you should listen to the podcast. Her name

801
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,120
is Stephanie Franklin. There are actually two Stephanie Franklins on my podcast

802
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,350
list but one of them is the descendant of

803
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:41,470
of a Shankel and he

804
00:49:41,470 --> 00:49:45,230
founded Shankoville, Texas which seems to be about an hour and a half

805
00:49:45,230 --> 00:49:48,790
the opposite direction of Paris somewhere south east of

806
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:51,909
Dallas. And it's a. It's the

807
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:55,510
Shankoville was considered the first free city

808
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:58,230
post Civil War for black.

809
00:49:59,670 --> 00:50:03,470
And she's so drawn to this. She's a brilliant woman actually. She's won some awards.

810
00:50:03,470 --> 00:50:07,190
But she went out to Shankoville because of it's her grandfather's stomping grounds

811
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:10,850
or grandfather and she's going to start a winery. And she has started a

812
00:50:10,850 --> 00:50:14,690
winery. I don't think she's planted yet. But I've been. I was so intrigued by

813
00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:17,530
the story that now that I get to go to Paris I'm going to make

814
00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:21,170
the detour when it's time to go see what she does in an area

815
00:50:21,170 --> 00:50:24,210
that's never considered for wine. It's probably really hot.

816
00:50:24,770 --> 00:50:28,450
But she did the. She did the studies and she's planting things like tannat

817
00:50:28,770 --> 00:50:31,250
and I think and Torigan ask now stuff like that

818
00:50:32,450 --> 00:50:35,560
to produce winer where is it

819
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,720
Shankoville seems to be if you land in Dallas you would go

820
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:42,680
south and you'd go east a little. But okay.

821
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:47,000
Seems to be about three to four hours from Paris, Texas, the opposite direction

822
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,840
of Dallas. I'm just so intrigued by this idea and

823
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,480
you know the, the we were in Kerrville

824
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,320
for a wedding years ago before the, before the flooding obviously

825
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:01,960
well before and we stopped at a couple wineries Messinahoff

826
00:51:02,290 --> 00:51:06,130
a couple other things on the way to Fredericksburg and they were growing

827
00:51:06,130 --> 00:51:09,810
Things like Sagrantino and some really interesting

828
00:51:09,810 --> 00:51:13,650
varietals for. For. I suppose, just. And they're growing some

829
00:51:13,650 --> 00:51:16,850
region there now. Lots of tannat there now.

830
00:51:18,129 --> 00:51:21,850
Yeah, they're growing. They're growing quite a bit over there. So where we are

831
00:51:21,850 --> 00:51:25,010
in Lubbock is the High Plains AVA. So we support about

832
00:51:25,090 --> 00:51:27,890
85% of the fruit for all of the hill country,

833
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:32,630
but they are starting to grow a little bit more every year.

834
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:36,350
More vines are coming online and just trying out different varietals

835
00:51:36,350 --> 00:51:39,510
that'll work there with. With the heat, plus the humidity,

836
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:43,270
rain, seasons and. And all of the things. But

837
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:47,590
there, it's. There's some potential there, for sure. They're. They're proving it

838
00:51:47,830 --> 00:51:51,390
so interesting. Will you say hi to Jim McPherson? If you tell him that, Paul

839
00:51:51,390 --> 00:51:55,110
K. From Wine Talks or Wine of the Month Club, you should remember that we

840
00:51:55,110 --> 00:51:58,950
talked about. I will definitely do that, and I. Hope we get a chance

841
00:51:58,950 --> 00:52:02,350
to meet, shake hands one day and we'll do this again. Because I'm interested to

842
00:52:02,350 --> 00:52:05,870
see what the next step for you guys is and how you evolve with this

843
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:09,630
product. It seems like a brilliant idea for whiners that are looking for

844
00:52:09,630 --> 00:52:13,390
opportunities to, you know, to augment their product

845
00:52:13,390 --> 00:52:15,910
line and to make it more accessible for a lot of people.

846
00:52:16,710 --> 00:52:20,070
Absolutely. Yes. We will stay in touch. We've got a lot on the horizon.

847
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:22,550
Cheers. Cheers.