The Changing Tastes of Wine: Trends, Innovation, and Restaurant Realities with Chef David Slay

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I could quit drinking a vodka all day long or a whiskey, but wine to

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me, is. What you just said. It's the story. It's the taste. It's the.

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I mean, each wine you have is so different. Vodka to me. Yeah.

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Is Chopin different than Belvedere or than Smirnoff?

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Yes. But when you're drinking a nice bottle of wine and you taste

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the nuances of the earth and things like that,

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the grapes are so different from one to the other. I mean, that's what intrigues

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me about drinking wine. Sit back and grab a glass.

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It's Wine talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine talks with Paul Kay. And we are at away game today

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way down in Manhattan at Hermitosa beach, about to have a conversation with David

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Slay. Chef David Slay, a crazy good career in the wine

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and food business. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having

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me. This is. You know, we crossed paths. Easy for me to

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say in hot yoga. We do. And I saw your shirt one day and I

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go, you know, I wonder if that's Chef Slay. It was. And it's taken a

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little while to get together, but I'm so happy to have a chance to sit

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with you. Yeah. When I got your email to say you were in town and

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get together, was looking forward to it. You'll. You'll see more of us.

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Yeah. Hot yoga. You know, this. This summer, we

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have spent more time at the house in. On 18th street than we

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have prior summers. And we're about to

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knock it down and put three stories up and have a place

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because it's old. It was like 1945, and have

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a place to. I think we land here forever.

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Well, this summer was a little bit deceiving. There was not much

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May gray, very little June gloom. I don't think we were over 80

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until the last week or so. So it was a perfect summer. It was amazing.

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Yeah. The last week was amazing. Yeah. Now we were. We were talking a little

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bit before we started here about wine,

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and I just had a conversation with a guy named Tim Hanai, who's a master

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of wine, and he completely blows the lid off

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and thinks wine food pairing is a hoax

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and a falsehood in the world of food and culinary

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experience. But you said something important just before we got on, and that was

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adapting the consumer, how you're

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vintnering, how you're making your wines, and

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what's driving that. Well, I don't believe he's completely off. I wouldn't say

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it's a hoax, but I think as before we started,

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consumers, tastes have changed. I mean, 30 years

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ago or 40 years ago, you wouldn't have red wine with fish.

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You wouldn't be drinking a Chablis with the New York steak. I mean, that was.

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And I think kind of what he may be referring to today,

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anything goes, you know, it's what you want to drink. And especially the

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younger consumer that is more into the varietals and the

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Rhone blends and things like that. So I think it changed

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with the consumer. And I see it in the restaurant when I see it.

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Group of guys come in and they're in their 60s and 70s, they're bringing in

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big Bordeaux, big Italians, big cabs. And then when you see

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the younger kids coming in, it's a screw top, it's an orange wine. So

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it, it has changed quite a bit. And it's interesting to see. That is interesting

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because, yeah, I would do that. I would bring it up. In fact, I brought

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a bunch down here. We have a big party on Saturday at the house and

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I brought a bunch of big wines. And I'm interested to hear that the.

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I don't know if it's millennials or Gen Zs, I have three millennials myself,

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they tend to drink what I drink. Maybe that's because of dad, but it's interesting

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to hear that they bring in orange wines, low elk, that kind of

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stuff. Yeah, it's low elk. And we've adapted at the

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vineyard ourselves. I make wine for what the

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consumer wants, not for what my taste is. And

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I've seen the changes over the years to where lower alcohol is important,

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a little bit lighter. So we shift with it. I mean, I'm

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not thick headed enough to say this is what I want,

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this is what I drink and this is what I'm making. I make wine to

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sell it, and I make it as a business. So I adapt pretty

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easy. That's an interesting

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direction here because they talk about innovation,

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wine business, and there's sort of a balance there. And it sounds like

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you're making it work. And that is there's a much certainly amount of

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traditionalism in this trade. And if you do have a big Bordeaux or

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you go to Bordeaux, you're going to experience that in a pretty, you know,

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involved way. Yeah. But at the same time, it's consumer driven.

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We need to sell stuff. Yeah. That's what our job is. The problem is,

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is a new study came out today. Alcohol

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consumption is probably at the lowest it's been since the 50s. Yeah. And we see

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it in the restaurant it's very, it's, it's noticeable. The

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younger generation. And I was at yoga today talking to guys our age

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and all three of us were saying about how much even they have

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cut back. They're not drinking as much as they were. Hard

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liquor and beer is really taking a hit. Wine still is

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doing good, but it's dropped quite a bit. Okay. So

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a friend of mine owns a restaurant in Silver Lake,

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bottle sales off 40% without a

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commensurate increase in cocktails.

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I don't, hopefully you haven't seen a 40% drop. Haven't seen a 40%

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drop here in Manhattan. Manhattan beach is a different customer

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too. So

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it's dropped. Considerate to where we have cut our wine list

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down at all four restaurants. We at one time I think

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we probably had 350 bottles on our list here. We're probably at

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150 now. Wow. So it's dropped quite a bit still. That's

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an interesting perspective because you go to Arthur J. And they still have this mile

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long list. Yeah, they got a great list and. It'S a great list. But and

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I, you know Nick, obviously Patrick, you know,

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Patrick Q is one. Yeah, Patrick's a good guy. He's a good friend and he

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wrote a great book too. Yes, the Haute Cuisine. Yeah. And another one, I

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think how to be a Restaurant Tourist. That was pretty recent.

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Well, you take a list like that, you take Modern Consumption. And I'm going to

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move on from the subject, but it's important to understand because that was an

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important thing to have this mile long list with all the

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choices. Wine educated people come in,

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they look at the list, they wow, this is a great list. But it's expensive

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to carry that list. And some of that stuff doesn't move. You know, who

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knows? I mean, you have Petrus on your list, that can't be moving every day.

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I'll tell you what it. No, exactly the price point. And

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I just had a Napa winery contact me for a tasty next

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week. I said send me all the information for one bottle at

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dessert, wholesale price, $680 a bottle.

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350 and 95. What? I answered back. I

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said that price point just isn't selling today. No, I mean our average bottle

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of wine is about $165, which is still on the high side

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on our reds. For our whites, it's in the 90 to 120.

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So and of our wine list, it's still the 8020 rule.

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There's still that pocket of wine that is always selling and the others sit

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on a shelf. How about the Caymus? Is the Silver Oaks the standard?

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You know Dow, Dow has done such a

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marketing job that you know, Dow is a probably.

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It's a wonderful story. They only sell for a billion dollars. Yeah. And

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their president's a good friend and customer, Manhattan beach guy Ned Lukic.

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So they know him and that makes a difference.

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It gets out. The public know it. But the Silver Oaks and

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those, and the Phelps insignia, those drop way down.

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I'm shocked. It's really interesting to know. I don't think I was looking at a

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report this morning as well that sales dollars in

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America has actually up. Now that could be the price point of the

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average bottle price, but consumption is considerably down. It's.

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Well, it's down what they say the average price is. They did. They just said

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that they went from so many billion to so many billion. Oh yeah, it was

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4% increase in dollars but 10%

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decrease in volume which when you consider like the

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total volume, It's. Yeah, it's 10% be a substantial

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percentage. But they're still drinking, you know, quite a bit. I put a

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60 bottle of wine on our list. We don't sell it. Really? Yeah.

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That's amazing because. And it'll be. I won't put a

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bad wine on it on the list. It's just. No, right here.

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Manhattan beach is again different. They just jump right to the

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$100 range. 150 range. But 60

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not. We can't. You know it's interesting and I see the slave brand and now

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that I know the pedigree of the, of the wine. Santa Rita Hills and then

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fabricated at Dragonet, which is one of my favorite Pinot Noir

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Chardonnay makers, period. And

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sometimes branded wines or self branded wines have a

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moniker about them. You know, if you particularly celebrity based wines that aren't

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participate where the celebs not participating. You have that, that, I

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mean is the volume of slay wines in your restaurant good? And there's a mystique

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around the idea that it's slay that works. Positive or negative? No, it's 100%

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positive. I mean we built a brand over the years. I'm not new to this.

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We're involved in the community. Our service staff and our wines

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are, you know, high quality. I mean I, I'll put our Pinot and Chardonnay up

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against anybody. So you know, quality is important. And

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if you know we bring in a boutique winery that someone's not familiar

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with, you know, we try to get the guests to try it. Enjoy it.

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A friend of ours from here, the Carpenters, they opened

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their. Their vineyard and their first release was to us this

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year. And they're local and it's. It's moving well, it's. And.

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But it's like anything, you got to sell it. How many years now with

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Slaybrand? Eight years now. It's interesting. This is

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interesting. And I just. My memory.

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My father's shop was in Malibu, Cove palace for his wines and spirits pals free

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liquor when he bought it. And back then

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1969-70, he closed it. He sold it in

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85. The Barrett's lived nearby.

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The Wetzels who owned Alexander Valley Vintage used to come into

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the shop. There's a lot of history and

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wine promotion because of the executives of El Segundo's

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aerospace business and the personalities. This is

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what fascinates me. The personalities of Redondo, Hermosa and

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Manhattan really haven't changed as the clientele have. Have you

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seen a change or do you see a difference between since your restaurants kind of

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spread out? It's funny, so many people tell me people from

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PV don't come down to Manhattan Beach. People from Hermosa don't come to

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Manhattan Beach. Yeah, we don't come down. Manhattan doesn't go to Hermosa.

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I'm in our restaurants every day. If I'm not at the vineyard, I'm here every

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day and I work the tables. And I've met so many wonderful people from all

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of the South Bay. I see a lot of people from everywhere.

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And Hermosa, which is. Most people say they don't go to Hermosa. We get

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a lot of customers from Manhattan Beach, a lot of pv. So I see it

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differently. But there are people who believe that. Well, it's the

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personality, which I think is a good thing. Like for instance, Hermosa just

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declined that Giant. Not Giant, but It was a 150 room hotel that was going

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to be a pier in the Strand and it had all these bars. And that

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would be typical of the Hermosa beach citizen to reject the

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idea of a development. Too bad. I agree with that.

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I spent eight years on the planning commission, so I'm for pro development. But

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Manhattan might have entertained that and it would have if they had the space and

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existed. So I find that interesting that the personality is

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kind of maintained. I will say I love Slay Hermosa.

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I like the style. I like the fact. I mean, that's kind of a risky

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deal. You took over El Gringo, this institution of

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lousy Mexican food. It's funny how many people said they would not

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go to the restaurant for us taking that over. Oh, really? So that was kind

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of the backlash in the beginning. But slayermosa, it's

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a wonderful restaurant, a great patio upstairs, but it's too small. We're

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looking for a bigger space for it. We would like to have a bar and

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actually more space. So we're actively looking forward space. My

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father, when he had a pharmacy as well in Malaga Cove and

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there was a counter and a Greek guy had a burger joint. And my father

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was a very sort of proper, was raised in an English environment,

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being from Cairo. And so the first thing he did when the really start out

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is get rid of the burger guy because he didn't like burger smells. And he

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said Peavey never forgave him for that. Right. You know, like El Gringo. You never

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get forgiven for removing El Gringo from. From their location. I was there

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when I lived here in the 80s. It was, you know, they were there. So

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I can't tell how many people come in. I don't know what soup they used

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to have that they were known for. Yeah, their chicken soup, the soccer. Everyone

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always asks, why don't you bring the soup back? At least I don't know what

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it was. And we make Sochi at our house all the time because of that

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restaurant. So. But this, this is all contemporary

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history for you. You have how many restaurants in the area now? We have four

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restaurants. You have Fet Fet, which is French

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Bistro, Slay Steak and Fish, where we are now,

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Slay Italian Kitchen and Slay Hermosa, which is our most casual restaurant.

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And that's the most recent. I think

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we're on three years at fat mostly. Pretty

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brave in this economy and era of restaurant

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touring, which is the expenses, the permitting, all that's come through the road.

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I'll tell you, we're over 200 employees.

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That's amazing. For four different leases. Yeah,

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it's a high overhead business. Restaurant business is very high

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overhead. Insurance is through the roof. Yeah, insurance,

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commodities are through the roof with everything,

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with anything that's being transported with gas, even though

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it's come down, but it's still been a factor with deliveries and charges and

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things like that. So it's a tough business. I noticed on my last

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Southern bill there was a delivery charge because there's only like three cases and

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they start charging me. That really made me mad. But that wasn't always the

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case. This is a family legacy here.

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It looks like you're more than just one generation of chefs? Yeah, no.

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Myself, my father and then my grandparents started. They immigrated

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from Lebanon in the early 1900s, and they end up

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getting in the restaurant business in the late 40s, 50s, and

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I got really into it early on in LA, in

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St. Louis. My wife and I are both from St. Louis. Wow, you speak Farsi

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as well, or you speak Arabic or anything that's interesting. My father's from

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Cairo. I heard his. All those languages, but I cook it. But.

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Yeah, right, that's great. But did you go to the Habos Cafe when you're. No.

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Used to be on pch because you. You're French

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trained. I looked at your. Your resume and you. You went to France to.

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To learn how to cook. And I think that's, you know, like I mentioned, my

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daughter did, too. Do you think that's a necessary

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step for a young chef to travel the world? 40 years ago?

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Yeah. Today, French chefs are sending their kids to

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the States. I mean, the restaurants here. 40 years ago,

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I was 20s. I was in my 20s, and it was

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a totally different restaurant scene, was totally different. Paul

246
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Bocus sent his son to the United States. Really? Piero

247
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Antonori sent his son to the United States. Really? We've got some of the best

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chefs in the world. I mean, you can't talk about food without

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thinking the United States isn't up there. It is. I had an

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interesting conversation with a guy named Vahed Kashgari, and he's a winemaker in Armenia.

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He makes a great value sparkling wine. And the

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oldest wineries in the world as far as. Well, if you ask them, if you

253
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ask the Georgians. Right. But he. He was telling

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me that he owned a restaurant. I met him years and years ago when he

255
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owned a restaurant in Berkeley called La Ligne, where Alice Waters

256
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would go when she didn't want to sit at Chez

257
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Panisse. It also was the founding location of the Roan

258
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Rangers, Randall Graham and Robert Haas and those guys that got together

259
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and started. I go, what an interesting connection. Now he's got the call in

260
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to go to Armenia and make sparkling wine. The reason I brought that up is.

261
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Does it matter too? Do you think of the historical viewpoint

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of cuisine like you just mentioned? These famous people are bringing their

263
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kids to America to learn the craft. Do you think? But

264
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understanding the history of food and the history of wine is an important piece

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of. I mean, to our generation. Yes, to the generation today.

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No, it's, you know, there's. They. And what I

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tell anyone, anybody that Comes to work for us, I believe you can

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go to. Which is one of the great things. You can go to any restaurant

269
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in the world on your phone and you can look at the table

270
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setting, you can look at the florals, you can look at the uniforms, the aprons.

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You can learn so much and be inspired by that. Obviously the menu,

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pictures of the food all over. That's interesting. I

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can't emphasize enough to our staff to do that. And I've got a couple young

274
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cooks in the kitchen. That's all they do. And it makes me really happy that

275
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they're inspired by. It can be Armenia, Spain,

276
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Italy, France, Japan. And that they

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get interested in learning the cuisine and the styles from different

278
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countries. That must feel good to inspire

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somebody because somebody. When my daughter was looking for a cooking school

280
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because she went to pastry school in France,

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Lyon, and then went to

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savory school in New York. And I bring that up because we went

283
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to. What's the one in Napa,

284
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you know, the big. At the Brainstone. Greystone. Yeah, Greystone.

285
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And the guy pitched that school like an

286
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alternative to college. And you're gonna come out of here

287
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and you're gonna be a food star. And it was kind of like the wrong

288
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message, in my opinion. It wasn't one of my daughter respected. She wanted to learn

289
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how to cook. She wasn't interested in being a, you know, be on the food

290
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channel or anything. She wanted to learn how to do. How to do the business.

291
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And I thought kind of a weak. Kind of a weak

292
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reason. And here you have these kids that come in. Are they

293
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trained at all this? Jeff was a

294
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dishwasher, but really got so inspired by being around

295
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what we were doing. He runs our whole kitchen here now. That's amazing.

296
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That's got. What bothers me about the schools is when not one

297
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kid coming out of there. I don't believe I shouldn't say one

298
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kid. That's a pretty broad statement. Most of them can't figure

299
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out an excel sheet. They can't figure out quickbooks. They can't

300
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figure out anything like that that is important to being

301
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a chef or being a cook. And you have to know the numbers of everything.

302
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It's a business, right? It's just not go cook and have fun. It's a business.

303
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And it's all just sounds pretty

304
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however you want to take it. It's all about money. If you don't have the

305
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money, you can't pay the. Can't pay the cooks, can't pay the rent. So you

306
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have to make money to succeed in the business. And it's a hard

307
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lesson to learn. I've had my ups and downs, but I've learned from every one

308
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of them that didn't work. It's very important to know the money part of

309
00:19:03,550 --> 00:19:06,990
a restaurant. It's different than anything else. Are we in a different

310
00:19:07,390 --> 00:19:11,110
part of the timeline of a restaurant

311
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where I was telling my wife this morning, this is almost like New York in

312
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some cases. We just spent $60 on breakfast with a tip at the Good

313
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Stuff. You know, it was probably 20 bucks, you know,

314
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,640
not even five years ago, maybe. Yeah, it's. I just saw

315
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,400
something online about someone going out to dinner

316
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,240
and just saying, it's just so expensive. It is. Yeah. It's so expensive

317
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to operate a restaurant. It's so expensive. The rents are, you know,

318
00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:40,610
we have one of our locations that they're waiting for a lease to go up

319
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so they can increase the rent. It's, you know,

320
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food. I tell our managers and the chefs that they have to look at every

321
00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:51,250
invoice that's going into our food cost

322
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calculations and our inventory sheets. I mean, I live and die by a P and

323
00:19:55,130 --> 00:19:58,770
L. Yeah. And we have to keep that accurate because it changes that

324
00:19:58,770 --> 00:20:02,530
much that often. And it's not going down much. No, it's not going down.

325
00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:06,300
Red meat's probably, again, the highest that's been in a long time. I didn't. I

326
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did not focus on. But I just see your Southern invoices there. I just happen

327
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to recognize the color. And no, it's. And that hasn't helped

328
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either. The consolidation. How is the consolidation of all the wholesales?

329
00:20:17,420 --> 00:20:20,660
Has it made it easier? Because you write one check for some of the same

330
00:20:20,660 --> 00:20:23,980
brands. Makes it harder. Makes it harder because. Because they have

331
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consolidated and they feel they have a lock on everything that you possibly want. So

332
00:20:27,780 --> 00:20:31,100
therefore. I'm so glad you said that. So therefore, if you've got

333
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this particular liquor and you weren't buying this one ever,

334
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now you got to buy this if you want to get this. It's. They block.

335
00:20:40,030 --> 00:20:43,790
Good. Block booking. So it's illegal in the film business. Well, we,

336
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we. Anyone that plays that game, I tell them, no problem. Here's

337
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what you do. Anything that we have from you right now, it will be on

338
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the bar. Tomorrow, pick it up and take it out of here. And I've done

339
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:56,950
that with two purveyors and I made them get out. Because it

340
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seems to me that the having, like, I think part of it, when

341
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you had 350 wines in your list, you probably wrote a lot more checks because

342
00:21:04,340 --> 00:21:07,380
there were a lot of small distributors back then. Yeah. And a lot of them

343
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have gone to self distributed. Oh, really? Yeah. You know, they cut out

344
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that, you know, whatever they're giving the Southerns or the wine warehouse or

345
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breakthrough, whatever they are now, because they, you know, that's a lot of money that

346
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they're given, giving up. And it's hard. Wine business is tough. I

347
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mean, it's really tough. It's tough. And the. When you have a. I

348
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:29,030
keep going back to Southern, them, they're coming in there, the door and saying, hey,

349
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chef, I need a favor, I need a placement. Can you put this on our

350
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:34,990
list? On your list? I need it bad. And you work a rapport with the

351
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salespeople and, you know, sometimes you say, okay, I can help you out. Then two

352
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:41,589
weeks later they say, oh, I got this. Now can you get this? Which one

353
00:21:41,589 --> 00:21:45,310
do you want? Can't put all because there's 12 of you

354
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doing the same thing. You know, I have a similar story in

355
00:21:49,030 --> 00:21:52,590
that Southern was my ace in the

356
00:21:52,590 --> 00:21:56,320
hole. But. But I'm talking 1990 something. That guy went to

357
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bat for me and we were buying almost a thousand cases, maybe even

358
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,280
1200 cases of red a month and almost the same white. So we were buying

359
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,080
a lot. And so they would. To get that one purchase, you know, they

360
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,920
would do you some favors. Right. That's the business. But the ABCs tried desperately to

361
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,800
keep favors out of the. Out of the equation, but that's just the way it

362
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,480
goes. Right. And then the rep changed. And the next

363
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,190
guy named Mike Bartley did a great job too. I was doing

364
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:24,350
a half a million a year with them. You know, just the one vendor,

365
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:28,830
next guy comes in, I dropped down to like $10,000

366
00:22:28,830 --> 00:22:31,630
a year. And the next time I ordered, I was on cod.

367
00:22:32,430 --> 00:22:35,510
And I think to myself, all that credit I built up with you guys is

368
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:39,150
nothing. And then Youngst took over from that position of being my friend and going

369
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to bat for me. And literally the day she retired, March 31,

370
00:22:42,618 --> 00:22:45,310
2023, which is when I retired from my business,

371
00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:50,670
all that's dried up again because the relationships were over. It's still

372
00:22:50,750 --> 00:22:54,470
driven by that. Yeah, it's funny, the shuffle. In all

373
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:57,470
the companies, it's all about relationships. And

374
00:22:58,430 --> 00:23:02,030
the management is putting it all on the salespeople now. They've

375
00:23:02,030 --> 00:23:05,790
eliminated so many upper management positions that were the ones that can make things

376
00:23:05,790 --> 00:23:09,590
happen. And they put the salespeople in a bad position because they

377
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:13,270
just beat them to get out there and sell and sell and get

378
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:17,080
this product out and. And then get the super well, and. Next week it's the

379
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,520
next one. So they leverage the well against the wine, and the wine is their.

380
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,440
Their thing. So why did you go to Paris? Going back to

381
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,960
that well? You said that was important back then. Yeah,

382
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,440
back then. I mean, I was young. It was right

383
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,240
after my father passed away, and it was just a time I

384
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,080
needed to get away and, you know, focus on cooking and getting my

385
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,550
head in a different place. So that's. That's why I ended up going there. Because,

386
00:23:42,550 --> 00:23:45,870
you know, Patrick Q worked in Paris as a chef.

387
00:23:46,110 --> 00:23:49,790
He. He won't call himself chef, but, you know, he's. He's a

388
00:23:49,790 --> 00:23:52,950
wonderful person. He's a great guy. So. But I think it's. This is the part

389
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:56,590
that's interesting and I don't. We didn't discuss your. If you have kids or not,

390
00:23:56,590 --> 00:24:00,110
but there's something to me about

391
00:24:01,470 --> 00:24:05,150
Ferdinand Point, the Trois Gros Brothers, you know,

392
00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:06,830
the Ducasse,

393
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,360
and the evolution of food in

394
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,080
Europe with this legacy. And we don't seem to

395
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,640
have that as much in America. My wife's

396
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,199
cousin owns a restaurant. Pasadena, has been there 35 years. That's probably the

397
00:24:25,199 --> 00:24:28,360
longest standing restaurant tour I know. Well,

398
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,360
which way do you mean? Well, so I guess

399
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,010
the question is more like, is that influence moving forward

400
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:39,850
an important part, or is American cuisine

401
00:24:40,570 --> 00:24:43,930
really. That's part of the DNA, which is we're going to build a restaurant, we're

402
00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:47,530
going to make the money we want to make. Let's just take. I think

403
00:24:47,530 --> 00:24:50,730
California cuisine changed the world. Everything.

404
00:24:50,890 --> 00:24:54,610
Italy, France, Spain. I mean, vegetables

405
00:24:54,610 --> 00:24:58,170
were never front and center in anything. Freshness of, you know,

406
00:24:58,170 --> 00:25:02,010
ingredients. It was always, you know, use a tomato no matter where you were. Paris,

407
00:25:02,010 --> 00:25:05,200
Italy, use a tomato year round. Until

408
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,440
Alice Waters, Wolfgang, Jeremiah Tower,

409
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,320
guys like that. That started changing how food was served. I

410
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,080
believe that that changed everywhere. I saw it when I worked in France, how

411
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,880
it started evolving and then start traveling there. It made a huge.

412
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,720
California, made a huge footprint on cuisine that year.

413
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,920
Sort of the 80s where Alice's. And then

414
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:34,710
what's her name, the one owns Moza?

415
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:40,470
She's. I'm a friend of her boyfriend and I can't remember her name now. She's

416
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:42,870
supposed to come on the. Nancy. Nancy Silver. Yes.

417
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:48,030
Well, the reason I bring that up is because I think the

418
00:25:48,030 --> 00:25:51,830
story is as important. I mean, wine is about the story now. I

419
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:55,620
think when it comes to wine, selling wine, that this story is

420
00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:59,420
really what's happening there's so many brands you're talking about. The Gen Z

421
00:25:59,420 --> 00:26:03,180
is not drinking the old classics. They're bringing in things like Whiny Baby and

422
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:06,540
these other brands and the White Claw and all those competitive

423
00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:10,380
beverages to wine. And I'm thinking that wine

424
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:14,140
only has besides that ethereal value of a

425
00:26:14,140 --> 00:26:17,580
good glass of wine, which I think every generation comes to once,

426
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:21,540
finally. But. But up until that point, it's about the story.

427
00:26:21,540 --> 00:26:24,760
It's like, what can we tell somebody? All right, so this guy told me today

428
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,280
that he pretty much quit drinking booze.

429
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,000
You know the trend. You know, he's just. To me, yeah, I could quit

430
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,600
drinking a vodka all day long or a whiskey, but wine, to me, is.

431
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,400
What you just said. It's the story. It's the taste. It's the. I

432
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,120
mean, each wine you have is so different. Vodka to me. Yeah. Is

433
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,320
Chopin different than Belvedere or the Smirnoff? Yes. But when

434
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,120
you're drinking a nice bottle of wine and you taste the nuances of

435
00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:56,220
the earth and things like that, the grapes are so different from

436
00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:59,980
one to the other. I mean, that's what intrigues me about drinking wine. It.

437
00:26:59,980 --> 00:27:03,740
It does connect. Yeah. It is an expression. I don't think

438
00:27:03,740 --> 00:27:07,220
that the Gen Z wines, like the. Like the orange wines, are necessarily

439
00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:10,980
depart from that. What bothered me about them in the beginning was they all

440
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:14,660
tasted like kombucha, and they were just an excuse not to make good wine.

441
00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:17,740
Because you can make good orange wine, you can filter it, and you can have

442
00:27:17,740 --> 00:27:21,570
a quality wine. There's nothing wrong with that. But I just thought. I think that

443
00:27:21,570 --> 00:27:25,318
eventually. And my kids now I have. She's 35,

444
00:27:25,422 --> 00:27:29,090
32, and 29 or something. You know, they get

445
00:27:29,090 --> 00:27:32,930
it. You know, they don't. They don't go to the cheap

446
00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:36,490
glass of wine they want to sell. That's gonna. That's gonna make them feel good.

447
00:27:36,729 --> 00:27:39,850
And we send them back because sometimes the bottles have been open too long.

448
00:27:40,570 --> 00:27:44,170
Let's do that. Do you have a song? Do you have psalms here? We don't.

449
00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:48,490
Someone needs somebody. They usually. I mean, our staff is pretty well

450
00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:52,290
trained at all the restaurants. How do you do it? Just

451
00:27:53,010 --> 00:27:56,810
experience. Experience. I mean, we hire experience. I mean, we don't hire

452
00:27:56,810 --> 00:28:00,570
anyone that's not experienced as. As a server. They have to have wine knowledge.

453
00:28:00,570 --> 00:28:03,890
They have to have liquor knowledge, and obviously service knowledge. So

454
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:09,010
anyone that needs something, they usually get me. So there's a.

455
00:28:09,330 --> 00:28:12,970
This is one of the expressions. You've probably heard it. We need to change the

456
00:28:12,970 --> 00:28:16,820
language of wine. I Kind of beat this dead horse.

457
00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:19,460
But I still have to do it because we went to a restaurant the other

458
00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:23,020
day in Hermosa and the wine list was sorted by

459
00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:27,100
style. In my life, my wife likes Bordeaux

460
00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:30,460
varietals as much as I try to stump her with Syrahs and things like that.

461
00:28:30,460 --> 00:28:34,260
It's like Pinot Noir as well, but I kind of

462
00:28:34,260 --> 00:28:38,020
look through bold and vivacious, light and

463
00:28:38,020 --> 00:28:41,380
airy. And I had to look through every category to make sure I wasn't missing

464
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:45,210
something that was categorized for things because. A Pinot could be in all three of

465
00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:48,730
those categories. So kind of a cat, but so does she. So

466
00:28:50,090 --> 00:28:53,770
what's your thought on that? And is there any value

467
00:28:53,930 --> 00:28:57,210
to dumbing, not dumbing it down? I don't think that's the right word, but to

468
00:28:57,210 --> 00:29:00,650
changing the way people explain or talk about it. I think that's

469
00:29:00,650 --> 00:29:04,450
exactly what people are trying to do, change the way. Get a. Get a

470
00:29:04,450 --> 00:29:08,010
hook into someone that's different than the traditional.

471
00:29:08,170 --> 00:29:11,290
I mean, that's part of what I see going in the restaurant business in general.

472
00:29:11,290 --> 00:29:15,010
Everyone's trying to figure a new way to get the customer.

473
00:29:15,010 --> 00:29:18,610
Because bottom line, we're all restaurants and

474
00:29:18,610 --> 00:29:22,050
it depends on what you want to eat. Do you want steak? Do you want

475
00:29:22,050 --> 00:29:25,850
Italian? Do you want fish? Do you want whatever it may be. So

476
00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:29,649
when there's so many choices, people

477
00:29:29,649 --> 00:29:33,330
are trying to find a way of distinguishing what makes you want to go

478
00:29:33,330 --> 00:29:37,050
there than here. Well, you covered all the bases. You've got the casual restaurant

479
00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:40,900
most. You've got the steakhouse in Manhattan, you've got Italian place in Manhattan and you

480
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:44,500
have a French place in. So back to our original conversation

481
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:48,100
earlier. Why did I do it if I wasn't going to do an Italian someone

482
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:51,860
else? I wasn't going to put a French piece while someone else would. Was it

483
00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:55,620
fun opening Fet because it's French and you. Yeah, no, Fet

484
00:29:55,620 --> 00:29:58,620
was a lot of fun. It's a, you know, great looking restaurant.

485
00:29:59,980 --> 00:30:03,660
It's got so many. The open windows are wonderful, especially

486
00:30:03,660 --> 00:30:07,340
this time of year. We got a beautiful bar. So yeah, it's a fun

487
00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:11,040
restaurant. I just had dinner. Well, actually we went

488
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,680
to dinner the other night to the new Italian place on Pier

489
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,040
Avenue. Stecca. Oh, yeah, yeah, Steca. And

490
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,720
more importantly, I took a young intern.

491
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,160
This is kind of going back to your dishwasher. And I'm very proud of this.

492
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,320
She was my intern and she wrote all the talking points for this show

493
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,280
before AI and I had

494
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,900
her in the first summer when she was writing the talking points when I had

495
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:42,540
a female winemaker on being a hot subject in the wine trade right now.

496
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:46,060
And she ended up going to enology school in

497
00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:50,860
Cornell. She's going into her third year this year and she,

498
00:30:50,940 --> 00:30:54,580
we got her a internship at Chateau Bailly in

499
00:30:54,580 --> 00:30:58,180
Pasaglion. And she. The

500
00:30:58,180 --> 00:31:01,900
glee, the inspiration she drew from

501
00:31:01,980 --> 00:31:05,750
doing this, this, this internship, the stagier

502
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:10,030
was really quite heartwarming for me.

503
00:31:10,030 --> 00:31:13,830
Quite accomplished. I feel like I accomplished something by just getting

504
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:17,590
one person interested in the trade and

505
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:21,230
what we do. And you had the chance to do it to a lot of,

506
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:23,910
a lot of people. Yeah, I've been fortunate. I've had a lot of

507
00:31:25,670 --> 00:31:29,500
kids that worked under me that are very successful either with their own

508
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:33,220
restaurants or chefing or whatever it may be. But yeah,

509
00:31:33,380 --> 00:31:37,220
I'm proud of that. And it's. I just came back from St. Louis for

510
00:31:37,380 --> 00:31:41,100
a family trip and so many of the restaurants I went to see these

511
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,420
kids that had worked for me and now they're adults and have their own business.

512
00:31:44,980 --> 00:31:48,820
It's pleasing. I enjoy that part of it. Do you, what, what

513
00:31:48,820 --> 00:31:51,260
do you try to instill? I mean you, I know you try to inspire them

514
00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:54,820
and you, and you can only, you can't force feed them

515
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,920
the inspiration. And so when they leave here, you know, what do you hope?

516
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,400
What lesson do you think they hope? I hope

517
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,160
they see my dedication

518
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,720
to what I do. I don't cut

519
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,560
corners on anything. We repaint the restaurant three

520
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,320
times a year completely to keep it fresh, keep the carpets clean,

521
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,650
little things like that. Redo our flowers, you know, twice a week

522
00:32:21,890 --> 00:32:25,530
and just instill a work ethic and be committed. Because if

523
00:32:25,530 --> 00:32:29,250
you're just doing it for a year or two, you're wasting the restaurant's time and

524
00:32:29,250 --> 00:32:33,010
you're wasting your own time. But it's, it's a business. You

525
00:32:33,010 --> 00:32:36,730
really have to be committed to. The passion which is in the wine business. Dude.

526
00:32:36,730 --> 00:32:39,970
Yeah, absolutely. If you don't have the passion, I. Believe any business, you have to

527
00:32:39,970 --> 00:32:43,650
have the passion. And but the restaurant business, the grind of the restaurant

528
00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:47,370
business and that's changed a lot. I mean, I do believe the 40 hour week

529
00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:50,790
is pretty normal in our business. At least in our company it is.

530
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:55,710
And that's in the case all the time. 60 hour

531
00:32:55,710 --> 00:32:58,550
weeks. 60. That still, that was part time.

532
00:33:00,950 --> 00:33:04,510
I mean, that's an interesting distinction. You know, the French have what, a

533
00:33:04,510 --> 00:33:07,990
35 hour week? Maybe they're fighting for 30 now. And

534
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:12,470
how about this? No tip, no tax on tips. How does that feel to your

535
00:33:12,470 --> 00:33:16,110
staff? It's my understanding it's on your first $25,000 of

536
00:33:16,110 --> 00:33:19,760
earnings and then after that. You'Re taxed total earnings or

537
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,400
total tax tipped earnings. Tipped earnings. You still are

538
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,160
taxed on your hourly. Yeah. And then whatever tips you make, up

539
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,840
to 25,000 is the way we understand it. But did that

540
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,640
feel good to a restaurateur to at least show that

541
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,440
relief to your staff or non issue, you

542
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,000
know? Well, it's, it's too early to tell. Yeah.

543
00:33:42,570 --> 00:33:46,290
I'll be curious to see how the staff, you know, if they really see the

544
00:33:46,290 --> 00:33:50,090
difference on their check. Any pool tips here? We do, and some

545
00:33:50,090 --> 00:33:53,450
goes to the back house. We just started the full pull

546
00:33:54,810 --> 00:33:58,570
two weeks ago. First of the month here. And so that's. No, isn't part of

547
00:33:58,570 --> 00:34:02,010
your regular DNA prior to that, pay well.

548
00:34:03,130 --> 00:34:06,570
Pay well. Pay well. Pay well. I mean, I had a restaurant tour

549
00:34:06,970 --> 00:34:10,810
after we opened here seven, eight years ago. Call me up. He says,

550
00:34:10,810 --> 00:34:13,690
can I talk to you? Can you meet me? I want to talk to you.

551
00:34:13,690 --> 00:34:17,490
I says, yo, what's going on? He said, rumor has it now this is

552
00:34:17,490 --> 00:34:21,130
eight years ago, you're paying your dishwashers 18 bucks an hour. Minimum

553
00:34:21,130 --> 00:34:24,930
wage was 1450 or something like that. I says, yeah. He said,

554
00:34:24,930 --> 00:34:28,250
what are you thinking? I said, I don't want turnover. I said, if they're doing

555
00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:31,930
a good job, I'll keep paying them more. Yeah, right. And sure enough, eight

556
00:34:31,930 --> 00:34:35,520
years later, the dishwasher is still here, our cleaning crew

557
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,280
is still here. It just, it's not worth it. That's too hard. If I

558
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,080
made an extra $40,000 a year, a restaurant, it's

559
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,720
not going to change my life. If they can make that extra money, I'm happy

560
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:50,560
for them to make it. Well, how about the

561
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,400
cost of retraining somebody and starting? Absolutely. I, I can't stand

562
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,960
turnover. It's really hard. Yeah, it's the most, it's,

563
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,920
it's so costly. Yeah. You want to

564
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,160
retire into the wine trade. No.

565
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,440
That couldn't be the worst business right now, other than the restaurant business.

566
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,400
Yeah. I just see whatever all these wineries are going through right now, it

567
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,800
is so tough. Yeah. And just for everything we talked about less

568
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,840
drinking, less bottles of wine on a list.

569
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,840
It's just, it's so tough. I, I, there are wines which I won't

570
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,610
mention that 10 years ago they would never discount. They would never

571
00:35:28,010 --> 00:35:31,850
today buy two cases and you're going to get it, you know, 25%

572
00:35:31,850 --> 00:35:35,610
off or get six bottles of X. It's, it's A bloodbath out there in

573
00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:39,290
the line business, you know, during COVID What happened here during COVID

574
00:35:40,010 --> 00:35:43,850
Open, close, open, closed. We were closed mostly. That's when they had the

575
00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:47,410
outdoor seating. 20. 20, right? Yeah, yeah, we had outdoor

576
00:35:47,410 --> 00:35:50,330
seating up until whatever, two years ago, three years ago.

577
00:35:50,890 --> 00:35:53,620
So at the Wine of the Month club we had

578
00:35:54,580 --> 00:35:58,340
during COVID Cayman showed up and Silver Oak showed up. They would have never come

579
00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:01,380
because they didn't need me. They had all on premise. They didn't need the guy,

580
00:36:01,620 --> 00:36:05,180
you know, even though. And I was selling 1

581
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:09,020
liter Caymus bottles for 140, and

582
00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:12,140
I couldn't keep it in stock. Oh, sure. And my allocation was 18 bottles a

583
00:36:12,140 --> 00:36:15,940
week. Oh, until they ran out. Now I have like nine

584
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:19,530
cases still in a stock because the moment Covid was over, it

585
00:36:19,530 --> 00:36:23,330
stopped. And now you can buy it for 79. Oh, yeah, they're very aggressive

586
00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:26,970
with Caymus now. So it's interesting that

587
00:36:26,970 --> 00:36:30,810
the. The. The. I think part of this. The palette and I think part of

588
00:36:30,810 --> 00:36:34,610
it's just the consumption level. But the point I was going to make

589
00:36:34,610 --> 00:36:38,250
was they wanted nothing to do with me as a online

590
00:36:38,330 --> 00:36:42,170
restaurant, you know, wine vendor. And. And, you know, even though

591
00:36:42,170 --> 00:36:45,130
I was established and 50 years. The company was 50 years old at the time,

592
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,960
they wanted nothing to do with it. And so it was strictly who can sell

593
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,160
the wine? And then all of a sudden, they come crawling back and I said,

594
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,600
I'll buy it, but you got to make sure you stick with me after this

595
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,200
is over. But then after it was over, I couldn't sell it.

596
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,640
Saved my life. As you know, the Wagner family is probably some of the best

597
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,480
marketers in. The wine world, and they are talking about block booking. Sure.

598
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,120
I had to buy. Was Csun.

599
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,200
Csun Pinot or something. I had to buy so many cases to get access to

600
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,200
something out. I was out. It was crazy. So what's

601
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,600
next? You got another restaurant coming up? You know,

602
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,920
we're kicking around trying to get Orange county back open. And that's two restaurants

603
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,720
there. What was that down there? Park Avenue and Hill

604
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:33,200
Garage on in Stanton. Oh, yeah, we opened those in

605
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,320
2005 and we've been closed since COVID

606
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,570
And I was doing that commute back and forth for 20 years from

607
00:37:41,570 --> 00:37:45,330
here to Orange County. It was 45 minutes to an hour back and

608
00:37:45,330 --> 00:37:49,130
forth each way. So we're kicking that around about

609
00:37:49,130 --> 00:37:52,850
reopening. We've been talking to the city. The city wants it open pretty

610
00:37:52,850 --> 00:37:56,330
bad. It's, you know, our. It was a true destination

611
00:37:56,570 --> 00:38:00,130
location. And we drew from everywhere. But the neighborhood has really

612
00:38:00,130 --> 00:38:02,810
changed and grown and crime is way down there and

613
00:38:03,130 --> 00:38:06,850
populations increased and the average income family has

614
00:38:06,850 --> 00:38:10,450
increased. So it's, it's a pretty good area and it's a very unique

615
00:38:10,450 --> 00:38:13,810
restaurant. It's two restaurants. One would be similar to sliced taken

616
00:38:14,370 --> 00:38:18,130
chop and the other was similar to slay Italian. On the same property

617
00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:22,009
was an old dairy farm. We had a beautiful private park. Very cool. Did weddings

618
00:38:22,009 --> 00:38:25,050
and caterings and a garden in the back that we grew a lot of our

619
00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:28,850
vegetables there. But it's, you know, the area I think could take care

620
00:38:28,850 --> 00:38:32,370
of it now. When Covid hit, we didn't, we didn't think we would stand a

621
00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:35,970
chance. Avail is still available. It's your property. I have a partner there and he

622
00:38:35,970 --> 00:38:39,650
owns the property for 100 years. Yeah. So my dad

623
00:38:39,890 --> 00:38:43,730
when we lived in PV and his main shop was in Pals Verdes and

624
00:38:43,730 --> 00:38:47,130
the wine shop was there. But he also had a pharmacy in

625
00:38:47,130 --> 00:38:50,970
Inglewood, Linwood and two in Montebello. And when

626
00:38:50,970 --> 00:38:54,690
he handed the car off to me, finally, just like

627
00:38:54,690 --> 00:38:58,410
a son, I'm moving and you take the car. It had 330,000 miles on

628
00:38:58,410 --> 00:39:02,130
it. Do you have a routine just leaving? Just locally,

629
00:39:02,370 --> 00:39:06,210
you know, I had a. Prius, so I'd

630
00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:09,590
fill it up once a week and I had a set. But just the routine

631
00:39:09,590 --> 00:39:13,350
of visiting each restaurant, making sure everybody's doing it right. So it's interesting. Yes.

632
00:39:13,350 --> 00:39:16,030
That a lot of people do on my phone I have open table.

633
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:20,990
Yeah. And I see, you know, I look at that 100 times a

634
00:39:20,990 --> 00:39:24,630
day. Each restaurant, who's going in, you know, before, in the

635
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:27,990
morning, in the afternoon and then before service, I'll see who's at which

636
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:31,150
restaurant and what timing. And I make it to all the restaurants. I go around

637
00:39:31,150 --> 00:39:33,230
all of them. How important are those

638
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,000
reviews? Yelp, Rezi, Foursquare, all those reviews.

639
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:43,560
I have friends that rely on them exclusively. I don't rely on them

640
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,320
except I do like Michelin Guide because it, it's a, it's a focus

641
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,640
group of people that do the, that have some kind of standard. I mean, I

642
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,880
don't know if some guy comes here, doesn't like their steak or does or loves

643
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,640
it. I don't know who that person is. I, I, I don't follow. You

644
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,240
don't manage it? I don't, I don't ask my staff to. I

645
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:04,760
believe we give 110% effort. That's the best we can do.

646
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,960
We serve thousands of people a week. Are we Going to please everybody. We

647
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,640
will sure try, but I know we won't. But I

648
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,440
don't have enough complaints from customers to where I need to rethink what we're

649
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,160
doing. But will we fall short sometimes? Yes. And it really

650
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,640
bothers me. And we'll go out of our way to win the guest over. Whether

651
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,000
we invite them back as our guest or comp their check or whatever it is.

652
00:40:27,410 --> 00:40:31,250
I don't like complaints. And I don't ever doubt a customer and sit and

653
00:40:31,250 --> 00:40:34,450
argue with them over, you know, is that medium rare or not? They don't,

654
00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:39,250
you know, redo it. Because in the wine trades, the

655
00:40:39,250 --> 00:40:42,890
same thing. And I. It's very funny. My mother, when she was selling the

656
00:40:42,890 --> 00:40:46,210
wine of the month club with my dad, she would. She would just

657
00:40:46,610 --> 00:40:50,330
not tell people that you could cancel any time, which is a function of the

658
00:40:50,330 --> 00:40:53,330
club. And I was like, no, mom, you got to tell them you can cancel

659
00:40:53,330 --> 00:40:56,770
anytime, because that keep. Makes them motivated and that you will fix their

660
00:40:56,770 --> 00:41:00,530
problems. You'll make them right. You'll make it right. I can't please

661
00:41:00,690 --> 00:41:04,130
all the pallets all the time with the stuff I bought and sold like

662
00:41:04,370 --> 00:41:07,090
a pic pool de penne. I mean, who's going to know what that is? But

663
00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:10,449
it's a great wine. I should expose them. But then if it's a problem,

664
00:41:10,610 --> 00:41:14,410
fix it. And that usually earns. In fact, one of the. One of the

665
00:41:14,410 --> 00:41:17,890
original functions of social networking, Facebook in particular,

666
00:41:18,610 --> 00:41:22,310
was the ability to publicly fix a complaint.

667
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:26,350
So if somebody complains online, you have the opportunity to

668
00:41:26,350 --> 00:41:30,150
respond and show everybody that reads that complaint

669
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:34,030
that you're involved and you're participating in the fix. And I think that's really

670
00:41:34,030 --> 00:41:36,950
important to this industry. Yeah, you know,

671
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:41,390
customer has a lot of choices, especially at our price point at all our

672
00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:44,710
restaurants. So I put faith in

673
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:48,900
what their belief. They have a complaint. I, you know, I attack

674
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:52,100
it if they're correct. You know, one of the things that we

675
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:55,780
noticed and because we're a little tuned to the industry of my

676
00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:59,460
daughter and wine, of course, is, you know, you can.

677
00:41:59,460 --> 00:42:03,300
You can tell rather in short order when you walk into a

678
00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:06,860
restaurant and taste maybe the appetizer or taste the food, that

679
00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:10,580
it's fresh, that it's from quality ingredients.

680
00:42:11,620 --> 00:42:15,140
To highlight the exception to that, my daughter was living in

681
00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:18,860
Potsdam, New York. Okay. It's not the edge of the world, but right across

682
00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:21,700
the street, you can see it. There's nothing there

683
00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:25,460
that's from. Which is kind of bizarre because the restaurants,

684
00:42:26,420 --> 00:42:30,220
they're terrible. But as a mother, my

685
00:42:30,220 --> 00:42:33,620
Daughter would go to the farm to buy her vegetables. They're all seasonal. She would

686
00:42:33,620 --> 00:42:37,180
go to the dairy to get her raw milk for her babies. And you

687
00:42:37,180 --> 00:42:40,900
go to the orchard and pick your apples. So I'm trying to

688
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:44,610
figure out why the restaurants don't do that. Because you really can't

689
00:42:44,610 --> 00:42:47,890
eat the food at most of the restaurants there. It's really, you know, it's. I

690
00:42:47,890 --> 00:42:51,570
was just up in, when I was up the vineyard last week or earlier this

691
00:42:51,570 --> 00:42:55,290
week, and we grow a lot of our own food

692
00:42:55,450 --> 00:42:58,770
and right now we're in the peak of tomato season because June and July up

693
00:42:58,770 --> 00:43:02,410
there were pretty chilly. So we just started with tomatoes maybe three weeks

694
00:43:02,410 --> 00:43:06,050
ago. And I'm at a restaurant up there that's saying

695
00:43:06,050 --> 00:43:09,770
all fresh seasonal vegetables. It came out

696
00:43:10,090 --> 00:43:13,720
the most underripe tomato,

697
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,800
horrible looking lettuce. I'm thinking, what are they thinking? They've got salad or

698
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,560
the salad. Yeah. And you know, it could be, you know, people, I mean, when

699
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,720
tomatoes are done for the season, we're done with them. Yeah. When squash blossoms are

700
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:29,120
done for the season, we're done with them. And so I've always cooked like that

701
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,800
though. I mean, ever, even going back when I started in my 20s in St.

702
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,560
Louis. Always cook seasonal, always cook fresh. I, I think it's, you know,

703
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,250
especially younger people today, that's what they want. And that is very French,

704
00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:43,770
though, to do that. Yeah. Or very Italian as well. I mean, you go to

705
00:43:43,770 --> 00:43:47,530
any, a lot of the outskirts or in Chianti or

706
00:43:47,530 --> 00:43:51,330
Montepulciano, I mean, it's so refreshing to see a little

707
00:43:51,330 --> 00:43:54,770
restaurant with a garden in the back and they're bringing tomatoes in for your lunch

708
00:43:54,770 --> 00:43:58,170
or dinner. But I want to go back to what you said about wine clubs.

709
00:43:58,170 --> 00:44:01,490
And you're saying your wife. Yes. That has seen the biggest drop in the wine

710
00:44:01,570 --> 00:44:05,390
industry. People aren't committing $400 a

711
00:44:05,390 --> 00:44:09,030
month or $200 a month to get their wine. And they're,

712
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:12,510
they're realizing that sometimes they're getting wine they don't even want. It's not

713
00:44:12,510 --> 00:44:16,070
curated by, you know, someone that knows what they're doing. They're getting a mix of

714
00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:19,870
wines that are all over, but that has seen a huge drop. I

715
00:44:19,870 --> 00:44:21,750
didn't sell it because I was making too much money.

716
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:28,310
And, and, and I, I'll say honestly for the listeners

717
00:44:28,310 --> 00:44:32,120
too, the premise of that club in

718
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,920
1972 for my father at the wine shop was

719
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,120
he tasted so much wine to pick the best two wines he felt for that

720
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,840
month put them on display for a Month and then rotated. People

721
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,160
left Palos Verdes, particularly the aerospace guys, went to

722
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,960
Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and said, send us wines

723
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,680
because we like your selections. When it got larger, and

724
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,280
I'll just tell you briefly, history. 1984, we moved it to a little bungalow in

725
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,030
King harbor and would pack for a week and then bill for a week and

726
00:45:02,030 --> 00:45:05,310
then leave. You know, when I bought it and moved to Arcadia in

727
00:45:05,310 --> 00:45:08,590
1988, it was really founded on

728
00:45:09,310 --> 00:45:13,150
the Trader Joe's formula at the time, which was finding odd lots of good

729
00:45:13,150 --> 00:45:16,870
wines that were properly made, branded for that sale, branded

730
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:20,390
to represent the winery and the people that made it. And what was happening toward

731
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:22,990
the end here were these 50 cent a liter,

732
00:45:24,030 --> 00:45:27,790
20,000 liter bladders coming in from Spain of just crap being

733
00:45:27,790 --> 00:45:30,750
bottled under a bunch of brands. And the wine clubs that were buying them up

734
00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:33,910
at 250 or $3 a bottle and putting them out there, 15.

735
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:38,790
How long can you fool the customer like that? Unfortunately, that's

736
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:41,870
what you see in so many restaurants today. And it really pisses me off when

737
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:45,230
I see that. And I know what some of these wines that they're running on

738
00:45:45,230 --> 00:45:48,350
a special that are five and seven dollars that are on a list for 85

739
00:45:48,350 --> 00:45:51,950
or 110, and there's, you know, I see it, and it just really

740
00:45:51,950 --> 00:45:55,760
bothers me. We were at a restaurant, Pasadena, Italian places, a couple of years ago,

741
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,800
and the bottle came to get where maitre d

742
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,840
recommended it, and it was corked. And

743
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,480
he came to me. He goes, no, it's not, sir. I go, no, it is.

744
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,960
It's cork. I mean, smell it. He goes, that's not wrong with it. So

745
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,960
he wouldn't even offer anything. So then the table next door

746
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,040
had a glass of it. They just opened a fresh bottle. I said, bring that

747
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,720
bottle over. Let's pour it against this one. And so he poured a little taste.

748
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:24,740
I said, they're different. He goes, no, they're not. They're the same. And he said,

749
00:46:24,740 --> 00:46:28,340
but I'll give you the rest of this bottle, okay? I got on my phone

750
00:46:28,340 --> 00:46:31,380
because I have all my notes from all the things I tasted. I just tasted

751
00:46:31,380 --> 00:46:34,660
that particular brand. And they offered to me for

752
00:46:34,660 --> 00:46:38,220
$7. No, I see it all the time. And they're charging 45.

753
00:46:38,940 --> 00:46:42,780
Even if the guy gave me a fresh bottle, it's only 14 in it. But

754
00:46:42,860 --> 00:46:46,620
that's not even. The supplier

755
00:46:46,620 --> 00:46:50,260
takes it back. Yeah, right. That's any bad bottle that no

756
00:46:50,260 --> 00:46:53,890
question asked. So, you know, when a customer says, you know, I hate to do

757
00:46:53,890 --> 00:46:57,090
this, don't hate to do it, doesn't I send it back to them and get

758
00:46:57,090 --> 00:47:00,050
re. You know, they'll replace it. You're right. You're absolutely right.

759
00:47:01,250 --> 00:47:04,970
I don't go to the restaurant anymore. Well, I wouldn't either. You know, we've had.

760
00:47:04,970 --> 00:47:08,530
We've already been 45, 50 minutes. Oh, my gosh. This has been a

761
00:47:08,530 --> 00:47:12,130
pleasure to talk shop with you. Time kind of went fast.

762
00:47:12,210 --> 00:47:15,810
Hope to see you in hot yoga soon. Get in there and

763
00:47:15,970 --> 00:47:19,720
eat and drink more. I have to, but I've got to ride so I can

764
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:22,720
be in the triathlon next year. I gotta run, which I haven't done for a

765
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:26,160
long time. So it's gonna be a balance of riding,

766
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,320
running and yoga. But what you'll find

767
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,920
out, the more hot yoga you do, those become easier.

768
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,520
Yes, because that's so hard. You're right. There's, you know, it's interesting. There's a cardio

769
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,880
component to it. Oh, yeah. Because you like the sweat and sculpt thing. Yeah. Yeah.

770
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,560
Right. Which is my favorite too, because I can't get into

771
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,360
some of those yoga positions. Well, anyway, it's been a pleasure.

772
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,100
Cheers. Likewise. Congratulation and thanks for having me. See

773
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:52,540
you soon.