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I remember wines by the emotion. I think of wines that have an emotional energy.

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They are living beings at the end of the day, wine is living, we agree,

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but it has an emotional energy. And

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when you find that kind of those sensory nuances and you can bring them to

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life and describe them for the audience as to why this wine

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is a happy kind of, maybe a more

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exuberant, more quite loudly

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confident wine. And then you match it to the song and to this point in

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the story. Then it all matches up. Sit back and grab

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a glass. It's Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio today with

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Stephanie Morton Small. Introductions in just a second. Hey, have a listen

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or watch actually, because I think his animation

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in the way he speaks is important part of his story.

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And that is Zaya unanimous. This guy

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decided that living in Iran was not for him. At 12

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years old, worked for a year painting bicycles,

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earned enough to fly to America and start his life. It is

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phenomenal story. It's about an hour and a half long. You won't even

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know that once you listen to it. You'll freak out.

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But now while we're here, here to have a conversation with Stephanie Morton Small.

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She is a four times founder. She's also the founder of a new

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project called Whisper and Wine. Whisper and Wine

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Whispering Song and I want to talk about that. But been around the

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world in the wine trade and so, so happy to have you on the show.

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Thank you for coming again. Thank you very much. It's great to be back. We're

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trying to figure out when that was. Right. Yeah, I think it was. Well, you

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still have wine in the month club, so I think it was 2022. Was it?

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That was a lot of fun. Oh boy.

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They're selling it again. They think, oh really? Yeah. So

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they can't keep up with your energy. I don't know what it is, but they

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did, they, they did take two of my people and then one of

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them lost her job somewhere along the line. The other one's still there

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and it's different. She just says different. Yeah, of course, of course. I mean you

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are everything that I. Suppose, you know, that's sort of a,

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you know this. We'll talk about that a second. From an entrepreneur standpoint, which is

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what you're doing, it's sort of a catch 22

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to be in that position. My wife and I have discussed this

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before and she still thinks we did the right thing, particularly in our

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trade because large corporations, I've

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seen So many companies fail in our industry that tried to

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upscale themselves and not just stay where they're at. But I'm a

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merchant. The guy in that picture is a merchant. My father was a merchant by

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trade. That's the way Armenians think. We, we're not this global

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going to build this giant corporation type people. And

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this is what has tried to happen and they've all failed. They don't

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understand it when they're coming into the business. When they bought. I don't know, it's

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kind of interesting. Like look at vintage wine estates. You know, this was

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12 or 20 wineries and every DTC thing you

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could do direct to consumer business and went to public

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failed. Geerlings and Wade, which was the

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darling of wine subscriptions back in the day,

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tried to go into all these different markets. Tanked,

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really tanked. So how did you. What was your

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path so far? My path?

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I mean, I got into the London wine trade. That was where it all began.

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I guess my love for wine started a little earlier, but

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my time in getting into the business began in London and that

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at the time, at the time, the UK was the biggest importer of

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wine in the world and it was a really dynamic market to

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be in. And you know, all the wines from around the world were coming into

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London because of course there was, at that time there was no, there were no

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English wines. And so it was kind of learning about

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wine and doing all the exams and having so much fun, like tasting all

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these magnificent wines from around the world. Well, they had. I mean, England

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had everything to do with the wine trade.

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Sherry, port, Bordeaux, Burgundy. Those were all.

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I mean, the major markets were England and Russia. So. Yeah,

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absolutely. I can see why. Is there, is there a wine shop in every corner

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in London? Like, like in New York? Yeah. And in those days? Yeah, pretty

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much. Pretty much. And it wasn't, there was no, it wasn't online in those days.

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And there was. London didn't have a wine of the month club,

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so. So yeah, it was down to the independent. There was my calling. I

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did. I missed that opportunity.

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Yeah. So what did you do there when you were there? I was

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working really initially I was working in retail and then quickly went

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into kind of sales and then into marketing side

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of wine in. And I actually

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ran the Bulgarian Wine Group. God, I haven't thought about that for a very long

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time. I ran that Bulgarian Wine Group, Bulgarian Wine Group and I managed

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Plymouth gin back when it was independent before it sold. Yeah.

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So quite a while ago. Probably dating myself there. But yeah, But Plymouth

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gin, that's a huge brand. Before. Yeah, before it sold, but yeah, it's

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fantastic. One of the original gins, the first gin in a clear bottle. So I

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was in kind of Wine and. Wine and Spirits in London

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and then after

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two, three, three or four years there, I

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decided I wanted. I knew I would kind of work around the world,

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I guess, but I wanted to explore and understand

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all aspects of the industry. And I went to

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the country that was, you know, booming and the real.

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Really great at marketing in that time, and that was Australia. So I went

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without a job and I went to Australia and I, I actually worked vintage

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at Domain Chandon was where I got my. I got

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my hands into. It has property. Yeah. Domain Chando in

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Yarra Valley. Yeah. Really? It's fantastic. That was a fantast experience. We

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really appreciate having been able to work with the crew there and

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to. To learn so much about winemaking and viticulture at that time. That was

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brilliant. So you just, you just like, I'm gonna try to

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cover all my bases in this industry and, and

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see where I land. Is that like. Or you had an objective like. Well, none

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of us have. No, I don't have a plan. Yeah, no, I don't. I don't

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think I went with that plan. I just felt very

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kind of free. Free in life to kind of make. Carve

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out my own path. I did feel quite freed up

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from what society was saying that everyone should do, settle down or get married or

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have kids or whatever. I was just kind of living it my own way. I

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don't think I designed to do this kind of crazy moving

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around the world that I've done. I always felt that it. That would

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suit me, maybe, but I was. I didn't have a plan to kind of

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see it through. I think it's a really. I. I follow my car. I would

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have, I would have loved to have done that, to have that

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experience in this trade. And I think it's so important. I have a

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young intern that used to work here. Now she's in Bordeaux.

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She went to enology school for her first year and she. I got her job

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at Chateau Bay and I'm jealous.

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Even though she's 19, but I'm jealous because I would have loved to be able

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to do that and understand those cultures. Do you think that's part of.

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I just wrote a story while you walked in. I was writing a story about

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May Elian Long Song, the famed comtesse de Pichon

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Longueville, the actual comtesse. And

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she's talking about protecting Jewish families during

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the German occupation. And my comment is,

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isn't that part of the terroir? Isn't your history in this

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industry bouncing around doing these things part of your personal

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terroir to how you approach this? That's a beautiful way of describing

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it. Never heard that before, but yeah. And I think this industry, I mean,

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I mean, you know, knowing wine the way we do, you can either

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explore wine through a glass and taste the world.

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You know, as you, I've said this to you before, but as you've. You used

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to do here every single day, you'd be tasting your way around the world, or

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you can embark, you know, early on a desire

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to kind of explore the world through wine. And I think both of those options

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are beautiful. And I think the earlier you start

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to move around the world, the

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more you experience and you experience at different ages. And it's

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a beautiful industry for that. And it's very welcoming. I think the wine industry is

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very welcoming and I particularly enjoy all the

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different cultures. We were just talking about Armenia. I can't believe it. Of all the

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places in the world that I haven't been to and there's very few countries, I

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guess now, but the one place I really want to go is

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Armenia. And there's what's happening. There is, I think, one of the most exciting things

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in the wine world today. You know, I'm gonna send you and the oldest, the

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oldest in the, you know, of the wine. Yeah, well, they all make

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that argument that, you know, they're battling that with Georgia. But I'm gonna send you

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a reel I made because I was there and I shot the three days with

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one of the TV stations. Oh, great. And it came at this. It was pretty

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cool. Pretty cool piece. Love to see it. I like this idea.

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Taste your way around the world. And that's not spoken

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about much. But of course, you went to Australia, had to learn a new language

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or a new accent. I think they took the mickey out of my

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accent. Yeah, they make a lot of fun out of

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the English. And then you went to Argentina. I did, yeah. That was

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fantastic. Why? The Swiss

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owners of a world class wine estate in

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Argentina, they were just starting it up. It was built, the vineyard was

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established and they wanted somebody to come in and manage the commercial side

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of the property and take it from development to launch.

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And I took it to being what was in the top 100 wines of the

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world with wine spectators. So I was there for a long time managing

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Finca di Sero. I was there actually

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for five years, located in Mendoza in

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Argentina. And then I managed. I

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moved to London because it was more central to kind of racing around the world.

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And then ultimately I was still managing Finca de

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Seta when I moved to California recently. So would you say then.

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Because I think not only did you have an important

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rounding of your fingers in the industry, being

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retail and marketing and Bulgarian wines, which is

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very funny because we've done some here and there's a couple in the market still

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manufacturing in Australia. Sparkling

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that. Now, what would you call yourself?

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Consultant. You know, that's an interesting

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question. Right now I call myself an entrepreneur of

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a startup, an innovative new way of

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a new experience in wine that hasn't been done quite in this way

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before in Wine Whisper and Song. So let's. Let's talk about that.

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Innovation pulls in the different aspects. Innovation,

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this trade. You know, you just talked about Armenia,

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6100-year-old winery they found there. And so you can make that

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argument. It's probably the same product as it was today, except it's

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not as refined. But certainly the idea of

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grapes being fermented into a beverage that represents something other

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than that, actually. What does

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innovation mean to you then? What is, I think

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innovation. You can. I mean, you can have innovation where. I mean,

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I crafted the first time augmented

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reality was combined with animation, film and.

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Wine. Yeah. And the. The Allen and the Dust devil back in

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2017. So that was. That was criminal.

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It was just coming at the same time. But this

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involved a whole animation film in the whole kind of coming forward

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into life. So that was fascinating. And it was bringing

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tech into an industry which is

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not so tech driven. And I think what I mean about

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innovation with Wine Whisper and Song is just coming about an experience and doing it

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in a different way. It's not the first

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time that emotion and wine pairing has come into our

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vocabulary. And certainly right now there's a big chorus about

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discussing wines with regards to emotions, much more. But it's the

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first time this blend of experience

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has come into fruition. That's kind of interesting because

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emotion, it's an

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emotional decision when you go to the store to buy

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wine. Stories are very funny and

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I won't bore you with them now, but it is an

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emotional decision. But this is a different kind of emotion. You're talking about

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sharing an emotion of song and wine

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in a specific environment. Tell me about what this is. Yeah. So Wine Whisper and

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Song involves powerful storytelling at the core of it. There's an

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inspiring talk with powerful storytelling and it meets

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original songs of the speaker, songwriter and is

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paired with wine. So an experience will be a.

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An inspiring talk on mindfulness awareness,

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intentional living. And it's by a speaker, songwriter, myself,

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or other ones that I have Rhonda Ross, daughter of

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Diana Ross and Berry Gordy. She is also one of the other speakers. And

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it's having an inspiring talk. And then at

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three different moments within the experience,

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at a pivotal story moment. I mean, a really maximum kind of

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emotion happening there in the storytelling of this aha moment, these

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life's adventures and what's that's meant

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a pause for a song from the

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own original song and matched with a wine. So

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the wine, I mean, if I think back to the wines I've tasted, probably the

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same for you, is that I remember wines by the emotion. I think

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of wines that have an emotional energy. They are living beings at the end of

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the day. Wine is living, we agree, but it has an

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emotional energy. And when you

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find that kind of those sensory nuances and you can bring them to life and

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describe them for the audience as to why this wine is,

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you know, a happy kind of, maybe a more

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exuberant, more, you know, quite loudly,

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you know, confident wine. Sure. And then you match it to the song

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and to this point in the story, then it all matches up. And then the

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person is absorbing this wine and imbibing this wine

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whilst resonating on many different levels, all the senses

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and deeply, emotionally. And I look back on the wines

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that I remember from my lifetime, and they are the ones which have

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most connected emotionally with me or the

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emotions that I was feeling at the time. I remember. Is this a new

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language? I don't think it is. You know. You know what I was.

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I think it's. I think it's the original language. I mean, it's not a

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question of why are we talking about emotion and wine pairing.

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And the question should be is why are we not? I mean, you think about

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the language that we've been talking people, you know, in the industry. I

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mean, I love talking about the technical details of wines,

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but we can't get our knickers in a twist because somebody doesn't understand the difference

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between powdery dappled or gauzy tannins. You know what I mean? And

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also, we've come to reference wines in

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relation to flavors. Right? But flavors are

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so flavors. And food is not a universal language.

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The enjoyment of food, yes, is a universal appreciation, but

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food is, you know, geographically, you know,

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changes and ingredients change. And therefore you might talk to somebody about

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blueberries to somebody else. They might have a hint of, you know, the smell of

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an acacia tree. And somebody else might be talking about tamarind. I mean, it's not

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a global language. Whereas the global language which we as human

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beings were born with is emotions. Emotions has been

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there from the start. And so to, to pair

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wines with emotions is almost more natural

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than, than what we've been doing. And, and it also invites,

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instead of explaining a wine in technical detail,

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it's about experiencing a wine. And that's much more

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profound. And I think that stays with people a lot longer.

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That's really interesting. And my. If my face looks blank,

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it's not because I don't understand. I get it. But I'm thinking

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through some of these things I've been reading about in some of these, you know,

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generations that are trying to, for instance, and I use a new language as

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the question. They want to change the language of

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wine. And I don't make any sense to me, but the language I speak is

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different. My dad used to cringe at some of the stuff I would say,

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because I grew up in a different era than he did in the wine world.

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He grew up with Michael Broadbent and Harry Wa and that kind of talk. And

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then in the wine trade. And then I do something. Now they want to change

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it and they want to talk about Captain Crunch and Froot Loops descriptors.

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And I want to tell these young adults, like,

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the next generation is not going to understand what you're talking about. And I don't

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understand what you're talking about. So that changing the language of wine does nothing.

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But this might be that change, because emotions are

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less, you know, they're more understandable between

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humans. And then Gerard Bertrand told me in our

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podcast that, you know, there's a life vibration

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in the wine. Yeah. That led me to a new concept of when people

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talk about tension in a wine. And I think that is the tension in a

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wine. And so when you're saying that emotion

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gets stirred up is that vibration and

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that tension that you're sensing. And you don't know what it is necessarily, you know,

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why it is. Which is another great thing about wine, is that they can tell

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us how nutrients get into the roots, but they don't know why they get into

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the roots and why they create this tension and this vibration

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that is the mystery of wine. So

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what do you do with this concept? So this

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concept is great for wineries and I'm just launching it now. I

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have actually done some pre launch events which were phenomenally

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well received and the feedback of the wines

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resonating with them and the experience. Actually somebody,

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a woman came up to me and she said, this is the experience I didn't

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even know I needed. And I was like, okay, yeah, this resonates so

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that I know I was loving it. But I think it's

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great for wineries that want a new experience to stand out

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in, in their region for their tasting rooms, and they can spark

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fresh conversations with new audiences or with wine club

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members that they want to get into a whole new conversation with. It

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taps into top trends, you know, of well being and

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intentional living, mindfulness and speaker led social

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events. I mean that's like 2025 is all about that, you

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know. So I think it's great for wineries. It's

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ideal for, you know, resorts

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in wine country. And I'm talking to a couple at the moment, so that would

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be a great way to spotlight their wine program. Because the wines are always

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focused on the location and are brought from the winery

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or the location that I'm pairing with. And then I think

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one, one aspect I'm really excited about, and I'm not

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sure who's going to be the first to launch this part of the concept is

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I think it would be a great pre dinner event. So if you

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had a private dining room, so, you know, a restaurant with a private dining room

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and it could be in wine country or it could be in one of the

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major cities, but to have a pre dinner for one hour

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talk, inspiring talk with songs and

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emotion and wine pairing and these three wines really showing up

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and resonating with people with these

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different emotions and then with those same three

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wines, take them into the dinner. And I would continue with

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Chef and we experienced the three wines when paired with emotions and then

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the three wines when paired over dinner and just explore how that changes and

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how people's subjectivity, you know, changes with regards to

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the wine wines or with regards to their appreciation and understanding of the wine. And

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I think that that could be a beautiful concept. I think that would be a

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huge change. Instead of, in other words, sarcastically, instead of

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standing there going, in 1385, you know,

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I, I had a podcast with a wonderful historian of wine, but I thought to

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myself, oh my God, you're gonna kill people. Stand up there in

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front of dinner and saying, you know, that Madame Clicquot in

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1769. I mean, just, that's a pretty crazy. And

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I'm just thinking about this part of this current

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movement and innovation, the world of the

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Word innovation is dealing with

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packages and tetra packs and things that aren't

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really related to the experience of wine. I was talking about

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Chateau Bailly, what she's done there, the way they've built their new

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winery. It's an experience to go there. You'll come away

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understanding the wine because of the experience. I was just

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writing about Maille le Terroir, about Maillon

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Longson, for sure, the Pichon Longville people.

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It's built into their DNA now that they had this experience during the

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war, that the emotion has to come out in the wine.

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It's not a piece of tannin, but it's certainly a philosophy about

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what you put in the bottle. And now the experience of

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wine, which has always been the case.

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My dad had dinners. This Les Amie de Vin thing was an experience of wine.

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People came and they wear their min. So they'd have these dinners and Robin Mondavi

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would speak is what I think is coming back to.

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Not to. Like I say, I won't stick my neck out and say it's going

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to regenerate the wine business, but I think the experience

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of wine needs to be developed in this way.

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And I just wrote down a couple of notes. One guy in

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Cortona, Italy, who I met has a.

359
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Actually has a jewelry store in Kansas City. Figure that one out. Strange.

360
00:22:25,550 --> 00:22:29,270
Yeah. Right. In a jewelry store in Cortona. Yeah. But he does these

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events called Wine Dine and Shine. And you show up and you put

362
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up and he, you. You. He consigns you a piece of faux jewelry.

363
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Big thing. And everybody sits around, talks about the food and the wine

364
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and what they're wearing. And then they can buy that jewelry on the way out

365
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the door if they want to. And I thought that was fabulously fun. In non

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wine part of the country, Kansas,

367
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where wine is a new thing. Yeah. That's a different way to come at wine

368
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as well. Yeah. Rex Pickett, the author of Sideways, who was.

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Who admittedly was dying on the vine

370
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after the movie because he got none of it, is now

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a phenom in

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Napa. People go to whiners now to hear him and hang

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out with him. This is a resurgence of the experience of

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wine. What does it mean? But that's what people are wanting. I mean, it's.

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You know, you look at Rob McMillan from Silicon Valley

376
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bank or any of the major thought leaders in the wine

377
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industry right now as to where we need. Where is our next step?

378
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We just need to listen to what the audiences are telling us. The

379
00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:38,500
audiences are saying, we want meaningful,

380
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emotionally engaging experiences. They don't even ask

381
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for wine. They want meaningful,

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emotionally engaging experiences and then bring the wine into

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it as part of it, not necessarily lead with it. And if we can

384
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listen to what people today want, it doesn't mean that

385
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any of the nuances are any less important. Trust me. I am so deep in

386
00:24:02,460 --> 00:24:06,180
the beauty of wine and the technical and the details, and I love all

387
00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:09,980
of that. But engaging people first and

388
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then letting them explore that second is

389
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what we are being told by the new younger generations

390
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is the way that they want to come into anything. And it's not

391
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just about wine. They want experiences. They want

392
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experiences. And I think

393
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as we approach these new audiences, and at this time in the wine industry, when

394
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it's so critical to bridge

395
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,450
the new generation, should we say is giving

396
00:24:40,450 --> 00:24:44,210
them what they are literally asking for? That's as simple as it gets.

397
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And the thing is, I was thinking, because I knew I was coming to talk

398
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to you, and I was thinking yesterday, I was thinking, how far different

399
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is this than what we did? It's not if you think about

400
00:24:54,530 --> 00:24:58,130
it and you tell me if I'm wrong, but for me,

401
00:24:58,530 --> 00:25:02,250
I was seduced by wine first. That's not my job. That's my wife's

402
00:25:02,250 --> 00:25:06,050
job. Okay, after your

403
00:25:06,050 --> 00:25:09,800
wine, you're the person that constitutes you, the wine. But

404
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,640
for me, I was seduced by wine first. I continue to be seduced by the

405
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,440
wine first. Not every wine, but by. I'm seduced by the wine first. Then

406
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,080
I go and explore and find out, okay, well, hang on a sec. Which vineyard

407
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,880
did it come from? Which site? What was the soil type? You know, what's going

408
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,040
on with the winemaking or what's going on in the vineyard. But I explore the

409
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,840
details second, and I get seduced first. So it's so

410
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,690
strange in a way that we've been. We've

411
00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:38,490
spent decades educating people into loving wine,

412
00:25:38,970 --> 00:25:42,650
whereas they're asking, asking. They don't need to be explained.

413
00:25:42,650 --> 00:25:46,490
They want to experience it. And it's no different to what we did.

414
00:25:47,530 --> 00:25:51,290
Why are we thinking now, And I'm making this in the broadest possible terms, but

415
00:25:51,850 --> 00:25:55,530
why are we saying, actually, you need to understand a

416
00:25:55,530 --> 00:25:59,130
wine to fall in love with it? No, let people

417
00:25:59,130 --> 00:26:02,330
fall in love with something. People don't fall in love with facts.

418
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,920
People fall in love with the way something makes them feel the

419
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,360
same way we did. And we just need to let people

420
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,800
be seduced and be inspired by wine before giving them

421
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,480
all the detail. The details are always there. All the complexity, the nuances,

422
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,320
the technicality is always there to be explored. But they don't

423
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,000
need to pass a test to fall in love. You know, I think we just

424
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,560
need to. As we're looking at these new generations, it's not just about the new

425
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,410
generations, you know, it's that, you know, I think there's a lot of people

426
00:26:33,410 --> 00:26:37,090
asking for something different. And you know, even if, you

427
00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:40,450
know Napa and Sonoma and the main wine regions, they do a

428
00:26:40,450 --> 00:26:43,770
fantastic job of offering up an array of different

429
00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:47,410
experiences as much as possible. But there's a lot of emphasis on

430
00:26:47,410 --> 00:26:51,210
the typical wine tasting or museum version of that tasting.

431
00:26:52,010 --> 00:26:55,730
And then sometimes there might be a concert or something like that, or a

432
00:26:55,730 --> 00:26:59,330
wages to come and drink and be involved with the winery.

433
00:26:59,810 --> 00:27:03,490
But how about coming up with new experiences whereby

434
00:27:03,810 --> 00:27:06,850
that are experience led, emotionally engaging,

435
00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:10,210
meaningful about life, you know. And I think

436
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:15,050
with regards to Wine whisper and song, it actually mirrors what

437
00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:18,730
wine is. If you think about wine, it's from the vineyard to the

438
00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:22,210
glass, from the glass, you know, vineyard to the glass. It is about

439
00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:26,050
philosophies, intuitive actions,

440
00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:29,900
intentional thinking and make a

441
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:33,300
mindful awareness in every aspect that blends to inspire

442
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:37,020
greatness. And wine Whisper and song actually embodies that same ethos

443
00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:40,740
in inspiration for life. It's about, you know, an inspiring

444
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:44,460
talk about life, about living and about aha. Moments and

445
00:27:44,460 --> 00:27:47,620
life's adventures in a beautifully entertaining way

446
00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:52,100
and then that being an inspiration for

447
00:27:52,260 --> 00:27:56,060
greatness in life. So, I mean, I don't want to sound condescending and think

448
00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:59,010
that, you know, you didn't come up with something great, but it sounds to me

449
00:27:59,490 --> 00:28:03,290
that this is just an extension of a nice dinner time conversation.

450
00:28:03,290 --> 00:28:06,850
And I've meaning, yeah, it's very interesting to me

451
00:28:06,850 --> 00:28:10,490
because the generations are talking about. We don't want to hear about your

452
00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:14,250
father's and your mother's interpretation of wine and that they tasted wine. I mean,

453
00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:18,090
they don't want. We don't care if you smell blackberries or blueberries. We want the

454
00:28:18,090 --> 00:28:21,570
experience like you're talking about. I mean, my, my kids are all millennials and

455
00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:25,230
they'd rather spend a hundred dollars on a sushi meal than save for mustangs. You

456
00:28:25,230 --> 00:28:28,070
know, that's just the way they are and that's fine. But

457
00:28:29,030 --> 00:28:32,550
as intimidating as wine is, I don't care what

458
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:36,870
level of expertise I'm sitting with with a glass of wine. If it's good,

459
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:39,830
honest wine, if it's really made to represent something,

460
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:44,310
it's never intimidating to those people because the conversation becomes Very

461
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:48,750
colloquial and very cool and very like, if they want to know the

462
00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:52,530
answers to the questions that have the answer, because eventually

463
00:28:52,530 --> 00:28:56,330
they ask. And I think you're saying this, why does this. Doing this.

464
00:28:56,330 --> 00:29:00,170
Yeah, let them ask in their own measure. I think what you're saying

465
00:29:00,170 --> 00:29:04,010
is that you're not pushing them with that information. You're happy to, and

466
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:07,010
that's the way you are. But I think, I think in the industry as a

467
00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:09,970
whole, we've. We've leaned a lot into

468
00:29:10,610 --> 00:29:14,370
defining different wines within our own portfolios as well. You know, this is

469
00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:17,850
from this vineyard and this, you know, defining price points sometimes and

470
00:29:17,850 --> 00:29:21,580
defining why it's in existence as opposed

471
00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:25,340
to trying to connect the wine with other aspects or

472
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:28,900
with other ways of understanding the wine. I think that's

473
00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:32,660
accurate. We're going to Napa the next week. Oh,

474
00:29:32,660 --> 00:29:36,260
fantastic. I rarely taste when I go there. We go to

475
00:29:36,260 --> 00:29:39,260
eat in a podcast usually, but

476
00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:43,500
somebody invited me to a winery to experience

477
00:29:43,660 --> 00:29:47,390
the tour and the tasting. And I'm interested to

478
00:29:47,390 --> 00:29:50,190
see what this take is. Now. This is. I don't, I don't know the people.

479
00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:52,990
I've never met them. I don't know their story, so I'm going to find that

480
00:29:52,990 --> 00:29:55,910
out. But we did visit last time we were up

481
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:59,510
Catillard, which is the Napa

482
00:30:00,629 --> 00:30:04,430
owned property by the chateau owners of

483
00:30:04,430 --> 00:30:07,590
Chateau Smith aux Lafitte Pas of Leon.

484
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:12,030
And these were two. Now I find this really fascinating for me, these

485
00:30:12,030 --> 00:30:15,820
are two French people that are now in their probably

486
00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:19,380
late 70s, but they met on the slopes on the French national

487
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:22,420
ski team, right. And they had this great story,

488
00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:26,340
adrenaline packed story. It goes back before that

489
00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:30,060
with the family grocery store and all that. And I, I find that really fun.

490
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:32,860
That just, it's a fun thing when you taste the wine. You go, wow, this

491
00:30:32,860 --> 00:30:36,180
is a really fun story about these people that did this and they do that.

492
00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:41,470
We can't expect everybody to. To want to do what we

493
00:30:41,470 --> 00:30:45,230
do. I didn't fall in love with wine. I

494
00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:48,150
went to my father in 1988 and he goes, I'm going to sell the company.

495
00:30:48,150 --> 00:30:50,830
Maybe you ought to check it out. And I said, okay. I was having trouble

496
00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:54,670
with my partners at the time in the software company and so I went packed

497
00:30:54,670 --> 00:30:58,510
wine for three months and then I. Then what happened when you tasted it?

498
00:30:58,510 --> 00:31:02,030
And then I just still, I was, you know, I worked. There's that picture from

499
00:31:02,030 --> 00:31:05,870
1975. I worked in a liquor store. I was in that beer box most

500
00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:09,540
of the time. It probably so. And I was coming off

501
00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:13,260
of corporate America. And then the smallest company could

502
00:31:13,260 --> 00:31:16,940
ever want to start with a fishbowl full of business cards and a

503
00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:19,580
two line phone. I didn't have. We didn't have an office even. In fact, the

504
00:31:19,580 --> 00:31:22,140
first objection I ever got from the first sale, the guy goes, you don't even

505
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:25,460
have an office, do you? I'm like, no, we don't. Yeah.

506
00:31:26,980 --> 00:31:30,780
So I didn't. It didn't hit me as

507
00:31:30,780 --> 00:31:34,280
to what I was providing a service to people for

508
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,160
until much later. Maybe 10 to 15 years. Really? That

509
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,720
long? Yeah, I was a mail order marketer, man. I was standing at a booth

510
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,400
selling this idea of a subscription to wine. And that's was the most

511
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,199
important part. It was a. You were managing them, but you were getting on

512
00:31:49,199 --> 00:31:52,200
with the managing of the business as opposed to. Yeah, it was a businessman. It

513
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,880
was. And it was a correspondence course in wine. Really. Yeah. If back

514
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,210
then, not today, these subscription models, at least a lot of them,

515
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,600
not gonna say categorically, but they're not about exposing

516
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,720
people to interesting things and finding this

517
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,480
Trader Joe's 2000 bottles of some Sebastiani

518
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,240
Cabernet Franc somewhere. It was about. That's what we were about.

519
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,080
Now it's about how cheap you can buy it and how much you can sell

520
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,800
for. So I'm fascinated with this idea and I'll tell you why. There's

521
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,440
another one, there's a master of wine, Susan Lynn.

522
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,640
I don't know, she's in Napa, Washington and she is a

523
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,000
concert pianist. Yeah. And she's

524
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,120
as well as Vanessa Conlon, who's the buyer for Wine

525
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,760
Access for a while. She's a opera

526
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,400
singer. Yeah. And. But Susan Lynn has been

527
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,960
playing with this idea of music and wine. Yeah. And. And,

528
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,440
and this is not the first time that music and wine has been brought together.

529
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,100
And. And it's a beaut. Artistic.

530
00:33:00,580 --> 00:33:04,340
It's almost like. I mean wine is the meeting of art and science. And I

531
00:33:04,340 --> 00:33:08,100
think a lot of people in wine have a musical bent as well. So. I

532
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:11,140
mean there's a lot of wineries talking about

533
00:33:11,780 --> 00:33:15,620
wine in musical terms, I think. And I think you've turned that

534
00:33:15,620 --> 00:33:19,060
into an experience. Yeah. Two and three actually. With food.

535
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:23,140
Yes. And actually really it's the inspiring talk

536
00:33:23,140 --> 00:33:26,350
and the powerful storytelling to be. To drive the emotion

537
00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:30,430
and then having the song match up to the song. I mean,

538
00:33:30,590 --> 00:33:34,430
in my talks, literally the lyrics match the story. I mean I literally. The most

539
00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:38,030
profound words I've written about some of the things that I've lived through

540
00:33:38,030 --> 00:33:41,630
have been. I put into song. And therefore when you have that,

541
00:33:41,950 --> 00:33:45,750
you know, banking up against the story itself and then you

542
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:49,110
taste a wine that is like really the essence of that

543
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:52,550
emotion, it becomes very powerful. Kind of

544
00:33:52,550 --> 00:33:55,710
triad of, of, of parts.

545
00:33:56,030 --> 00:33:59,630
And that's an interesting thing I was reading.

546
00:33:59,870 --> 00:34:02,630
I go. What I like to do is I go back to the magazine of

547
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:06,470
this group. Yeah. This guy was a brilliant guy. I'll tell you this

548
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:10,190
story off camera because it's crazy, but there's. I read

549
00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:14,030
articles from the 70s. Yeah. 60S and there's an article. I'm just

550
00:34:14,030 --> 00:34:17,230
saying to you that the guy wrote a score. Yes. Around

551
00:34:18,740 --> 00:34:22,420
some wine. Yeah. And I, and I sent it to my friend who's a

552
00:34:23,620 --> 00:34:27,420
conductor. I haven't heard him play it yet, but I, I want

553
00:34:27,420 --> 00:34:30,940
to hear your take on after you read the article. Then this, there's this score.

554
00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:34,740
Oh, I'd love to. It's from 1975 or something. So

555
00:34:34,740 --> 00:34:38,580
you're right, it's not a new concept. No, but your concept's new to. Yeah,

556
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:43,180
to emote. To get people to emote. This is like a

557
00:34:43,180 --> 00:34:46,980
conversation too. Like I'm having dinner and the guys. You'Re playing, I

558
00:34:46,980 --> 00:34:50,520
mean it doesn't necessarily happen during dinner. This, this would experience either a pre

559
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,240
donor experience or it'd be in the afternoon winery tasting room.

560
00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:58,360
And it, and it's a way. I mean I think

561
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,840
the standalone talk is powerful. I mean these are,

562
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,000
I mean Ronda Ross, she's the daughter of Barry Gordy and

563
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,680
Diana Ross, as I just said. But she's also a Grammy nominated

564
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,080
songwriter, Emmy nominated actress and she's also a TED

565
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,840
fellow nominee. So the level of talks by herself, myself and some

566
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,880
others coming on board are really

567
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,400
amazing talks on subjects of mindfulness, intentional living. So

568
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,200
on that piece alone it's powerful. But then to have these three

569
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,960
interludes when songs that the person that's talking

570
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,760
has actually written the song really coming in and adding this power

571
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,560
piece and then the wine to match in that moment. It's so

572
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,840
digestive. And what a lovely way to spend an hour. It's not like you're just

573
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,400
sitting there listening to somebody and it's not preachy. It's aha moment.

574
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:52,710
And when I was doing the kind of pre launch events,

575
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:57,070
it reminded me of something somebody said to me a very long time ago,

576
00:35:57,070 --> 00:36:00,390
decades ago, somebody said to me that one of my skills is

577
00:36:01,830 --> 00:36:05,590
moving people on an emotional journey. And this effectively is. This is a curated

578
00:36:05,590 --> 00:36:09,270
emotional journey. And there's one moment on one of my talks,

579
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:12,990
it's called Intuition talks. And the second pivotal story is a

580
00:36:12,990 --> 00:36:16,490
very emotionally

581
00:36:16,490 --> 00:36:19,970
charged story. It's a moment of massive

582
00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:23,530
gravitas in my life and

583
00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:28,250
it's a very meaningful moment. And I had tears in my eyes when I was

584
00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:32,250
explaining and even my voice spoke, but I looked and the people in the audience

585
00:36:32,330 --> 00:36:35,770
had tears in their eyes listening. And then, you know,

586
00:36:36,090 --> 00:36:39,890
I shared the song relating to this story and I paired this

587
00:36:39,890 --> 00:36:43,730
wine, which had a lot of complexity to it and depth. And then

588
00:36:43,730 --> 00:36:47,270
we went on and a couple of minutes later, after that song and wine

589
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:50,630
experience, we've gone back to the talk and I'm talking and.

590
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:53,710
But then I'm moving on with the talk and I'm into a new story and

591
00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:57,190
we love. And I'm laughing out loud and the audience is laughing out

592
00:36:57,190 --> 00:37:00,710
loud. And that's the beauty of great storytelling, is

593
00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:04,590
this is a. This is a whole, very carefully curated arc of a journey

594
00:37:04,590 --> 00:37:08,310
whereby you can be like, you know, in one moment and then,

595
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:12,030
then the next moment you can be laughing. And it's. And that's what makes it

596
00:37:12,030 --> 00:37:15,860
beautiful. This isn't like just sit there and hear somebody

597
00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:19,700
preach whatsoever. This is. This is something where

598
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:23,020
people want to go back, even hear the same talk again. Because the stories change

599
00:37:23,020 --> 00:37:26,700
and obviously the wines change every time. So every single wine whispering song

600
00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:30,460
is actually a unique experience. That's kind of interesting. I've sat down

601
00:37:30,460 --> 00:37:33,300
before. People have asked me to pair food and chocolate, whatever, and I was on

602
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:37,020
tv, blah, blah, and my initial responses were lousy. It's like

603
00:37:37,020 --> 00:37:40,860
I said, oh, this is chocolate with pasilla peppers. I know what's going to go

604
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:43,630
with that. And I taste it. It's like, that didn't work and something off the

605
00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:47,350
wall worked. Do you have to figure out or does it come

606
00:37:47,350 --> 00:37:51,030
to you while you're writing these things or producing

607
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:54,710
these events or this concept, does the wine

608
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:58,230
pop into your head like, oh, this is obviously a tannat from Uruguay,

609
00:37:58,870 --> 00:38:02,310
or do. You have a correct think about it? The

610
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:06,070
concept depends on me doing pre work with the winery.

611
00:38:06,070 --> 00:38:09,870
So if it's going to be located at a certain winery, I'll work with them

612
00:38:09,870 --> 00:38:13,560
in advance to see maybe what message they want to highlight, maybe they want to

613
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,040
show, because emotions is a very good way of showing up differences in

614
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,680
wines. Now we're all about, okay, well this comes from this site and that's why

615
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,680
it's different from that one, which is slightly warmer or whatever else. But if you

616
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,320
say, well, this is, you know, an

617
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,080
exuberant, happy wine, whereas this has got layers of complexity

618
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,760
in it, I get that is sitting back and think, so when you start to

619
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,480
do that, it's a great showcase of three different vineyards or three

620
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,880
different varieties or three different winemaking styles. And it.

621
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,820
And so there's. So I work with the winery beforehand

622
00:38:44,820 --> 00:38:48,380
to identify which wines. And then, of course, when the people

623
00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:52,180
leave, they can buy a mixed case of the Wine Whisper and Song wines. They

624
00:38:52,180 --> 00:38:55,780
get the wine and the song. They get the playlist as they go. And

625
00:38:55,780 --> 00:38:59,020
it's so immediately digitally shareable

626
00:38:59,420 --> 00:39:03,260
and shareable with their friends as they can go. And the people that

627
00:39:03,260 --> 00:39:07,060
I've done the ones with separately before launching

628
00:39:07,060 --> 00:39:10,760
at the wineries, they are. They've gone and they've. I can.

629
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,560
I can see that they've played the playlist and they might

630
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,000
not remember my name, but you can bet they were met. They'll say, you know,

631
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,560
my gosh, there was this woman, she was saying this story, and oh, my God,

632
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,400
there was this moment, and then this happened. And they'll remember that and they'll remember,

633
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,640
but they'll remember the wine and they'll remember the story. They might not remember

634
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,760
my name, and that's not important in this, but they need to remember the feeling

635
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,090
of. Of what it makes them feel, because it's when you have that feeling,

636
00:39:37,730 --> 00:39:41,410
they're the wines that you remember. I remember certain wines across the decade,

637
00:39:41,650 --> 00:39:45,250
across decades. I will never forget those wines that in

638
00:39:45,250 --> 00:39:49,050
certain moments when I had a really strong feeling that they're etched indelibly

639
00:39:49,050 --> 00:39:52,130
on my mind forever. And that's in this world of

640
00:39:53,090 --> 00:39:56,810
where there's so many wines in the world and wine club members are

641
00:39:56,810 --> 00:40:00,130
beautifully fickle. You know, how do we get them to remember

642
00:40:00,370 --> 00:40:04,100
our wine? How do we have them remembering that and telling

643
00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:07,820
that story in two, three months time or later? And

644
00:40:07,980 --> 00:40:11,260
this is wine Whispering Song offers that opportunity to really

645
00:40:11,820 --> 00:40:15,220
have something imprinted on somebody, not just somebody's mind, but on

646
00:40:15,220 --> 00:40:18,980
somebody's soul. It's less tech talk and it's more soul

647
00:40:18,980 --> 00:40:22,580
stirring. It's kind of interesting because you're flying the face

648
00:40:22,580 --> 00:40:26,140
of. You're flying in the face of going to the Napa Valley wine

649
00:40:26,140 --> 00:40:28,580
tasting room, because so many wine tasting rooms, room

650
00:40:30,340 --> 00:40:34,140
workers don't understand that part. And they're pouring off. They're talking about the stuff that

651
00:40:34,140 --> 00:40:37,780
everybody now is saying is why wine is suffering. But

652
00:40:37,780 --> 00:40:40,980
I'm not sure if I agree with that completely. But what you are doing

653
00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:44,740
is bringing home in a simple, less expensive,

654
00:40:46,260 --> 00:40:50,020
less egregious, not egregious, less complicated way

655
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:54,500
to do what normally Happens when you travel.

656
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,000
You go to Italy and you're sitting in front of the Parthenon and you have

657
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,720
this house, Trattoria red, and you think it's the best wine you've ever

658
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:06,400
had, because the emotions around sitting

659
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,200
there are unique to that moment. Exactly. And then you come

660
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,080
home, you taste the wine, you go, I didn't taste the same. Right. That happens

661
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,640
all the time. But the emotion. But the emotion and the wine got locked in

662
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,280
your mind, and you remember that wine enough to come back and order it when

663
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,920
you came back. So that is exactly what I'm talking

664
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,700
about. And none of this negates beauty of the

665
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:31,340
com. The complex and more nuanced

666
00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:34,740
messages about sight and tannins and structure

667
00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:38,180
and all of that. I'm just saying this is an alternative way

668
00:41:38,420 --> 00:41:42,260
to engage with people that is very in demand in

669
00:41:42,260 --> 00:41:46,020
the moment. That stuff's always there. Yeah. You can, like. That's always there to explore.

670
00:41:46,020 --> 00:41:49,660
Exactly. You want to explore. Wine is available for you to do it. You can

671
00:41:49,660 --> 00:41:53,020
read all the books that you got here, 100 at least 100 wine books at

672
00:41:53,020 --> 00:41:56,330
home. And when I'm interested in a subject, I go, pull one out, pull it

673
00:41:56,330 --> 00:41:59,290
in. Exactly. To read about it. And that's for me to know. But you don't

674
00:41:59,290 --> 00:42:01,930
have to know that stuff. You just have to know how it makes you feel.

675
00:42:02,250 --> 00:42:06,010
Exactly. And then after that, you might dig deeper. That's the idea, is

676
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:10,330
if you get people emotionally engaged, that's when they'll dig deeper. And

677
00:42:10,330 --> 00:42:13,930
that's what all the wineries want, and that's fine. But let's emotionally engage

678
00:42:13,930 --> 00:42:15,770
everyone first. I mean, it's just.

679
00:42:17,770 --> 00:42:21,250
It's just doing it the same way that we. That we. That we did it.

680
00:42:21,490 --> 00:42:24,970
You know, I look back on life and on the wines that I've remembered. It

681
00:42:24,970 --> 00:42:28,690
was that way first. It was being seduced by the wine and having that

682
00:42:28,690 --> 00:42:32,330
emotional connection first, and then going and

683
00:42:32,330 --> 00:42:35,090
exploring and doing all. And I've done all the, you know, the wine exams

684
00:42:35,970 --> 00:42:39,730
and the books and. But it was that way around. And so

685
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:43,730
it's just allowing new audiences to do what we did.

686
00:42:43,810 --> 00:42:47,620
You know, it's kind of interesting. I had this thought and theory,

687
00:42:47,620 --> 00:42:49,820
and I think it's reasonably accurate,

688
00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:54,900
particularly with supermarket wines. In fact, my

689
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:58,300
employee who went with the new company sent me a sample of the last

690
00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:01,939
shipment. Yeah. And I'm of Armenian descent, and there was a

691
00:43:01,939 --> 00:43:05,700
Turkish wine in here, which is kind of interesting. How

692
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:09,060
did that go? And I thought, I want to taste this, because I've never tasted

693
00:43:09,060 --> 00:43:12,830
A Turkish wine after all these years. And it was palatable, but

694
00:43:12,830 --> 00:43:16,550
it was sugared up also. Right. And the sugar is like the most cloying thing

695
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:20,390
that never. It doesn't express anything except sugar. And there's actually a study

696
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:22,630
being done that where people

697
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:28,070
get tired of that pro forma.

698
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:31,790
Eventually they move on to the things. I guess that's why Zinfandel

699
00:43:31,790 --> 00:43:35,190
drinkers. One of the other things. And as we move down the line.

700
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:38,550
But the point I'm making is it seems like

701
00:43:39,350 --> 00:43:42,790
everybody can agree when they

702
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:46,230
taste a wine that expresses something,

703
00:43:47,110 --> 00:43:50,710
where it's from. And I always ask winemakers when they come in here, so what's

704
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:54,350
the end game? You're doing all this. You're experimenting with grapes, you're changing the

705
00:43:54,350 --> 00:43:57,350
barrels, you're fermenting cold or whatever you're doing.

706
00:43:57,910 --> 00:44:00,950
What's the goal of all that? And

707
00:44:01,110 --> 00:44:03,670
ultimately, it boils down to express

708
00:44:04,820 --> 00:44:08,580
this time in this place. Right. And I think

709
00:44:09,860 --> 00:44:13,140
your. Your. Your premise is basically that you're. You are

710
00:44:13,380 --> 00:44:17,100
providing wines that you've produced or

711
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:20,499
calculated to express an emotion and feel like an emotion,

712
00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:24,900
and that we want you to feel this too, when I'm done with it.

713
00:44:25,060 --> 00:44:28,260
And that's what. Yeah, that's what we're kind of. What it is in the first

714
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:31,880
place is an expression of. And I think everybody agrees when they

715
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,240
taste that good glass of wine, they go, yeah, maybe they don't like the character

716
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:39,040
of it, like the flavors, but they sense this tension

717
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,400
and they sense this vibration that you're bringing out to

718
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,040
a human level. Really? Yeah, it's really interesting. So when is this launch

719
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,840
you're thinking. Well, I'm talking to a few winemones right now, so

720
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,560
we'll see. I'm not sure which one's going to line up as being the first

721
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,080
in the timeline, but in the next few weeks.

722
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:02,000
So it's happening right now. So, you know, that was just

723
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,760
what you wrote, talked about. Was it Diana Ross's Neat. Was it Diana Ross?

724
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,320
Diana Rossenberry, Gordy's daughter, who. Yeah. Who's

725
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,960
Rhonda Ross, and she's one of the speaker songwriters in Wine with Gary.

726
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,680
Gordon, the founder of Motown. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's a

727
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,760
big movement of wine, fine wine, in

728
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,360
professional sports now. For much of my career,

729
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,680
there's always endorsed wines. Fred Couples, the

730
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,320
famed golfer, was the first wine I tasted that was actually sort of

731
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,480
participating in it. Greg Norman, of course, she's got a whole brand

732
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,360
and his daughter runs. But there's been a huge movement

733
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,120
in professional Basketball, for instance, for fine wine. To the extent

734
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,760
that the Lakers, when they're done with their game, they call Boa Steakhouse in

735
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,960
Maria del Rey or wherever it is, Santa Monica, and they say we're coming over,

736
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,570
get some ribeyes going and we want these bottles. There's a huge

737
00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:57,370
appreciation have you. Is that since you're at that level of,

738
00:45:57,450 --> 00:46:01,130
of entertainer, is wine a cultural part

739
00:46:01,130 --> 00:46:04,970
of Hollywood or music and singing and.

740
00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:08,970
Yeah, I mean a lot of people have amazing fine wine

741
00:46:08,970 --> 00:46:12,730
cellars and yeah,

742
00:46:12,730 --> 00:46:16,490
that's. That's for sure. And they have. They might, you

743
00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:20,220
know, and they might be sellers for showcase or they might have an in

744
00:46:20,220 --> 00:46:23,900
depth understanding of the wines in their cellar. I think there's can go

745
00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:27,500
both ways. Yes. Look what I have. And they're like,

746
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:31,340
yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So I think there's a couple

747
00:46:31,340 --> 00:46:34,820
of different ways that can go, but yeah, and. And that's a great way to

748
00:46:35,220 --> 00:46:38,620
experience this as well in a private event and pair up some of your wines

749
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:42,380
from your cellar in wine with Swansong as well. Yeah, there are

750
00:46:42,380 --> 00:46:46,155
some fantastic cellars, not just in la. I mean across

751
00:46:46,155 --> 00:46:49,920
the, you know, I think across the US people have developed cellars over

752
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,600
the last number of years. Yeah. Like somebody says, why do you have so much

753
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,160
wine, Paul? And I'm like, because the guy didn't buy it for me. And that's

754
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,840
what I was fortunately stuck. With it and

755
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,600
I'm drinking it. So here's a fun experiment for you. And we're gonna do

756
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,320
it. You did one of these 48 minutes already. This is

757
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,240
kind of down the road of what you're talking about because it talks about.

758
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,450
This is of a doctor in France. His name is Dr. Murray. He's

759
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,720
long past, but he wrote a book called Wine is the Best Medicine. It's sort

760
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:23,520
of like what is in the wine that makes you feel something or helps

761
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,320
you fix something. Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna. Now don't worry about

762
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,160
getting this right or wrong because literally anybody sat in your chair you're sitting

763
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,760
in. It's 33 chances that they're gonna. I

764
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,440
know you asked me last time. Yeah, it was fantastic. Maybe I'll get the same.

765
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,080
Same question. Okay. Yeah, let's do it. I'm all up for that. So

766
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,650
you're further along your career. Maybe. Maybe I'll have the right

767
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:49,410
answer this time. Gee, I wish I should. I should

768
00:47:49,410 --> 00:47:52,810
have played it back. See which one I know. No, this is going to get

769
00:47:52,810 --> 00:47:56,330
you. So what's the question? And these are all French wines. Okay, go. So the

770
00:47:56,330 --> 00:48:00,050
question is, let's call it anemia. I don't think I ever asked anybody that. So,

771
00:48:00,690 --> 00:48:04,130
okay, you can have a dry

772
00:48:04,130 --> 00:48:07,890
champagne, a grave, or a Cote de

773
00:48:07,890 --> 00:48:11,530
Bonne to heal anemia. And there's, of course, a dosage with

774
00:48:11,530 --> 00:48:11,810
this.

775
00:48:15,690 --> 00:48:19,450
So what are we going to go for? Iron in the soil. What's. Where are

776
00:48:19,450 --> 00:48:23,210
we going to stand? The answer from. Let's go to the emotions. What,

777
00:48:23,210 --> 00:48:24,970
do you have anemia? What's your emotion?

778
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:30,930
I feel pretty deflated and lacking energy, I

779
00:48:30,930 --> 00:48:34,170
think, is what I'd be doing where I'll be at.

780
00:48:34,410 --> 00:48:38,090
So if that was my. If that was my.

781
00:48:38,090 --> 00:48:41,420
You're actually on the right track. You already see the right track thing. Part of

782
00:48:41,420 --> 00:48:43,100
it. You said part of the right thing.

783
00:48:45,660 --> 00:48:49,460
Well, if I was deflating and feeling a lack of buzz, then I'd probably go

784
00:48:49,460 --> 00:48:52,540
for the champagne. But with the iron in the soil. Let's go with.

785
00:48:53,820 --> 00:48:57,140
Let's go with the guav. Well, you're

786
00:48:57,140 --> 00:49:00,540
33%, man. You're born out of 33%. You got it right.

787
00:49:01,660 --> 00:49:05,460
It says exactly that. Anemia, or the pathological decrease in the number of

788
00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:09,270
red blood cells manifests itself in a variety of disorders, among them

789
00:49:09,350 --> 00:49:12,230
fatigue, vertigo, and a lack of general tone

790
00:49:13,590 --> 00:49:17,430
is sometimes hemorrhage. And it says grave.

791
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:21,070
And it says. Because of their iron content. Yeah. The

792
00:49:21,070 --> 00:49:24,390
vine that produces this type of wine is cultivated on pure sand

793
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:27,830
containing iron particles in a soluble form. Yeah,

794
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:32,230
see, now, that's where it pays. If you're going to be

795
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:35,550
on your podcast for that's where it pays to know the technical details of the

796
00:49:35,550 --> 00:49:39,210
soil and the vineyard. So. So those years of knowing the tech

797
00:49:39,210 --> 00:49:42,730
details does pay off in certain circumstances. I'm just saying that

798
00:49:42,970 --> 00:49:46,690
sometimes emotions can be a way into that. It

799
00:49:46,690 --> 00:49:49,690
is. You're going to give me another one. It's two glasses a meal, which I

800
00:49:49,690 --> 00:49:53,450
certainly qualify there. I could get that

801
00:49:53,450 --> 00:49:57,210
done. I must be anemic. I'm cured. If you work backwards.

802
00:49:57,290 --> 00:50:00,250
I have two glasses of meal of a grave, so I must be anemic. Yeah.

803
00:50:01,930 --> 00:50:04,970
Such a pleasure to have you back on. Thank you for having me back here.

804
00:50:04,970 --> 00:50:08,740
Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Good to be back paying us. You know, there's some

805
00:50:08,740 --> 00:50:12,060
vineyards in Topanga, right there. Are there? And in

806
00:50:12,060 --> 00:50:15,380
Malibu Canyon and even in Angora Hills. Yeah. There's

807
00:50:15,860 --> 00:50:19,460
things happening over there. What's her name? Sandy Garber, who

808
00:50:19,460 --> 00:50:23,219
owns one of the

809
00:50:23,219 --> 00:50:26,900
wine distributors. She's actually survived all this.

810
00:50:28,180 --> 00:50:32,020
Garber Associates. Actually, she lives in Topanga.

811
00:50:33,070 --> 00:50:35,670
Yeah, I'm surprised you haven't crossed your path. No. There's not that many people in

812
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:38,910
Toyota. Well, now. In a long time. Yeah. But with all this

813
00:50:38,910 --> 00:50:42,470
consolidation of distributors in Los Angeles and RN DC

814
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:46,310
walking in September and It's a crazy world right now. It

815
00:50:46,310 --> 00:50:50,110
is a crazy world, and one that a lot of people, you know, as

816
00:50:50,430 --> 00:50:53,870
somebody said in the industry, there's a lot of great talent out there in the

817
00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:57,510
California industry right now, and a lot of companies are stepping up to employ that

818
00:50:57,510 --> 00:51:01,160
talent. So I'm hopeful that I've got so many friends

819
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,560
affected by that move, but they'll land in all the great

820
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,360
places, I'm sure. I feel vindicated. I sold right at the right time. Yeah.

821
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,800
Paul, you got the sauce? You know this

822
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:14,600
fantastic. Thank you.