Oregon Wine's Evolution: In the Vineyard with Robert McKinley of Norris Winery

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I'm a true believer that everything's done in the vineyard. I mean,

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each year I think our farming practices are getting so much better where

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I'm finding that I'm doing less work in the cellar. Our goal is just to

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guide the fruit through. So really growing it is the major

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factor of all of it. Sit back and grab a glass.

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It's Wine Talks with Paul Kay.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are in studio today

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about to have a conversation with Robert McKinley of Norris Winery in Oregon.

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Introductions to. Just a minute. Have a watch or listen to

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Greg Lambrecht. I see that. Yeah, because he likes the German

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accent. He is the inventor of the coravan.

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Incredibly interesting story. The guy was a nuclear physics

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physicist. Got bored with that and went into medical.

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Medical manufacturing and now makes the Corvan. Is an incredible story. Have

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listened, but not while we're here. Here, talk to Robert

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of Norris of Norris

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Winery. Is that Willamette? Yep, yep.

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Willamette Valley. Northern Willamette, to be specific. And even

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smaller, Ribbon Ridge. Aba. Now, we. You know, I have a relationship with

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your father, and we go way back, and we've shared the.

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The love of wine and the experience of wine and. And had a

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lot of good fun with it through the years with our fraternity brothers. But why

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did you. What happened? How did you get involved with this? Yeah, that's what you

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had examined.

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Parents got into it at a young age, and they bought a

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vineyard, or at the time, a hazelnut orchard up in Oregon

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back in 2005. And as a

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younger kid, man, I was still in high school, I was going up there

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visiting a lot, kind of seeing this new area develop. So 05

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is when ribbon Ridge became an Ava. So I don't know if they're before

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or after the change of terminology,

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but kind of also a growth period for the Willamette Valley.

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So having the opportunity to really kind of jump in there at a young age,

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help with neighbors, pack club shipments,

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or just anything a kid would do. And really kind of

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switched on the light to. Maybe I should look at this as a career.

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Um, and then kind of started diving into college. They ripped out

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hazelnut trees and put in vineyards. Yeah. And then waited the

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minimum three or four years crop. Yeah. And who was doing. Running the

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show then? At that point, it was the folks. And

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our neighbors as well, were helping at Drum Winery. So

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as a hobby. Hobby. And Trusadum's obviously a big

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brand now, so they had more ambitions for that. But,

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yeah, no, it was all part of kind of the growth together. And

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for the years that before I got there, which took a while,

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fruit was just being sold to trusadum and other wineries.

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We cut deals like, you know, if you farm it, you can have it. And

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until, you know, which is kind of an odd one, but also a

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good one. So, no. I had a podcast with a guy who

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started in Puglia, Italy, ended up in Tuscany, now in

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Armenia, but along the way stopped in Berkeley, opened a restaurant, a distributorship. Same,

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same, same conversation in Puglia. They go, hey, you

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know what? Yeah. If you want to pick it, you can have at it.

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Yeah. And I mean, it makes it easier on us too. I mean, as you

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know, the farming, the whole side of farming takes some cost

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and time and energy. And, you know, it was nice to

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finally take it back over at some point, but.

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But originally, would that. Do you think that they were looking at

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a profit center when they did this? No, I think

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property investment, good idea. Like at the time. I mean,

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it's crazy to see now. And I'm not even. Geez,

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it's been almost 20 years since that point. And seeing the growth in

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just the area is insane. Like the hotels, the restaurants,

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everything's pretty much growing with this industry, which

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is really interesting. So that's primarily because of

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the wine experience and the wine tourism. Yeah, I think so.

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And. And each year, Oregon's getting better. I mean, you're seeing out

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of country conglomerates coming in or new wineries.

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You're seeing a lot of growth. And it's because the wines are

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great. We're getting better at making wine. And Oregon's on the map now.

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It's not a little secret. You know, it's interesting because we were there in

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1989 for the second only

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Pinot Noir Festival in McMinnville. Amazing. And

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at the time that the wines were. There were some. There were like

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three or four brands that, that people knew and even

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came to la. But most of it that we tasted up there wasn't that great.

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But they would invite all of the Burgundy makers and people from Napa, and it

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was this big festival, as you know, but it was really to seek

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knowledge and understanding of how we're going to become, you know,

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a thriving thing. And look at this, you know, 25 years later, 35 years later.

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It's a very slow industry, but it's great to hear that. Yeah, it's great, great

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growth. I mean, unfortunately, as of last year, IPNC is

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no more. Is it really? Yeah, I think

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they'll. The re. They're saying they're revamping it, trying to make

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it change a little bit, but a strong run. It. It was probably the most

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attraction that McMinnville got for those 35 years or

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whatever. 40. But yeah, I mean, all those

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main pioneers, the Adelsheims and the Letts and, you know, all

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that is still going pretty strong. Well, they brought, you know, I think as a

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result of that, the first Burgundy

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house that came. Druin. Yeah. You know, they've been there for a while. And

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now we're talking about Louis Jedo with the Renaissance Resonance

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and some interesting technologies. Not interesting,

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but, you know, promoting the technology of wine in that part of the. Part of

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the world. Why do they decide to go to Oregon? Just thought was

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quiet place. Yeah, I mean, the Druins took the first jump, and

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I mean, I think a lot of people at the time might have probably thought

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that was crazy, but it's because they saw the potential and quality,

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you know, resonance being part of the judo. I mean, that was the most recent.

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And I think it's also a nod to really seeing what we're doing.

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And I think it's really impressive, you know, similar but

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different. We get a whole lot more sunshine than Burgundy. And

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maybe that's something that kind of concentration that they don't quite get

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that maybe sparked an interest. But, yeah, I. I

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think something else in the portfolio. Yeah, I

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think so. You know, they actually

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leads to the point I was just going to make, which was in

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those days, as well as Central Coast, Pinot, Napa,

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Pinot. It matter. We used to say, hey, this is very Burgundian.

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And as if they were trying to recreate Burgundy, which

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you can't do. You can't recreate Lima Valley anywhere else in the world, and you

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can't recreate Burgundy. But you don't hear that anymore. Yeah, I mean,

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sometimes I still hear it, and I kind of. I really want people to say,

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like, this is Oregon. Sometimes I. I get it

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gets a little tiring with the very Burgundian in

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style because, I mean, it's like anything else. You can't mimic that. I'd rather

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have that. We're organ where the Lambet Valley or even the

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Avas are so wildly different. But. Yeah,

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I don't know why that kind of started. But. But in the trade,

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since you still taste all the time, it's not said like that. Like, I went

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to a cabernet tasting recently. It was trade only, and it was, you know, you

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didn't hear. Well, this is very Bordeaux esque. You know, unless they were trying

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to be that. Unless they're trying to make a, you know, blend that was

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emulating it. But I think it's important. And so

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the Willamette Valley, you said Ribbon Ridge, which is a Appalachian.

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I don't know, that's newer.05.

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A lot of kind of these AVAs started. I mean, we're so new. It's

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still kind of like the wild, wild West. I mean, we're talking 50 years, really.

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And in the grand scheme of wine, I mean, you look at Napa, they

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got a hundred more on us. I mean, 100 years on some of these infidel

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vineyards and plantings. But what would you say Ribbon Ridge

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represents? Like, it's. Is it an altitude issue? Is it

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a soil issue? Soil. And it's. It's pretty special

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as we're kind of the smallest Ava in Oregon, which is

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really kind of crazy. Not a lot of vineyards are there.

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We're essentially a landslide off the Chehala Mountains. So at

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one point, we were in this large AVA that's still pretty large,

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called the Chehala Mountains, and this landslide came off, and

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we're sitting around, like, probably the highest would be,

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I would assume, 700ft down to, like,

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the 400, 300. So we're kind of in that middle range.

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Our vineyard at 400ft in elevation,

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so warm but cold. And we're all on

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marine sediment. So when we talk Oregon soils, it's usually. There's a lot

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more, but usually we're either talking volcanic or marine.

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So I think. Have they

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started with Bordeaux varietals there, like, trying to make it

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work, or this sort of thin, insipid, you know? Yeah, it's kind of thin. I

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mean, I've had friends try to do Syrah, but, like, some years

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it works, some years it doesn't. It's got to be a really hot year, I

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feel like. But really, what I mean, the other thing

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we focus on besides Pinot is Riesling. That was the first grape

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brought to Oregon, and that was probably a great selection. Then we

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saw kind of the grease, the blancs. It took a while

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before they tried Cab Merlot and a

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few others, but it took a while before they hit Pinot. So that.

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Interesting. The most finicky grape of the world totally does well there.

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I know. And it's really. It's all about sunlight for us. Like, we only

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have, you know, so much sunlight throughout the year. If we didn't have the long

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summer days, Pinot wouldn't work. We wouldn't be able to grow anything out there.

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So different climate. I mean, maybe that

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brings us back to the Burgundian conversation of

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somewhat similarities. We have rain, we have. You know, it's not as

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consistent as what the California industry can be. Not

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always, but. Well, it seemed like then, if that's the case,

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you know, had a conversation before you got in with another winemaker, her,

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about the terroir differences. Let's just

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take Burgundy because it's the most dramatic example of this.

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You know, you go across the street from 2 hectares to another 1 hectare

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vineyard, and it's a completely different thing and fully represents, you know, the

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difference in the terroir. Are you seeing that in. In

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Oregon? I think so. I mean, we're, we're still so young. I

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mean, I see differences in vineyards. Like, we're mostly

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marine sediment, sand, and like silt.

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So really poor soils where you see volcanics, clay based.

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But even between, like our vineyard, say, throw a

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stone across the. The road to where a west facing bowl

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and there's an east facing bowl, I see differences in that a

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little bit. But it's pretty cool to see the same base

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tones in it when you go bigger.

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Like, even Al Amity hills down south is probably one of the newer ones. They

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have a mixture of both volcanic and marine. So I find that really interesting.

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So you can go one vineyard to the next, and there's different

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still, like a bass tone, but it can be a little different. So

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that would light you up when you do this, like this whole. I mean, the,

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the, like I said, the wine geek part of it, but

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the, the part of that, that just tells us of

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what's going on below the soil. Yeah. I mean, soils and just

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pretty much climate in general too. Like, we are maritime,

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so the Pacific Ocean makes a big difference. So we have this,

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you know, east to west valley, which is not normal.

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And I think from my knowledge, the only other one would be the Santa Rita

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hills. So you see the difference there, where ocean air is

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dragged through the coast range. Yeah, Right. And also

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an impact. So I think we get. Do you think you wanted, like, did you

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want to be an accountant before you started this? No, not at all. Financial guy.

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No help for that kind of stuff. I came out of

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the Beta house, I sold copiers. Yeah. I mean, that's

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kind of the odd thing. I found it at such a young age. It's all

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I kind of know now is wine. Yeah. So it's kind of. I.

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I've had other oddball jobs, but since right out of school.

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School. I studied it then it's only been wine ever since.

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Exciting. Yeah. Is there a consortium up there? You know, I was just talking

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to this gentleman from Armenia and. And I know the

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Columbia Valley has it where there's just. There's sharing of information

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amongst the winemakers. And you just talked about Guillaume Large with

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the Luja d' or resonance. Yeah. I mean, do you. Does that happen?

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Oh, yeah. I think we're super collaborative. I mean,

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you know, it's always person by person. But, like, just recently, we

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started this big kind of summer tasting event

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with all the winemakers. So we pull stuff out of barrel and

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there's hundreds of samples and we talk farming, we talk what

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our struggles were, which I haven't seen anywhere else. So, you

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know, it's worth a full day of tasting through and talking

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through struggles or non struggles, hurdles

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and. Or what we thought was really successful. Like last year, I went

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24, was a pretty good year, so there wasn't too much

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crazy conversation. So, you know, could be one of the best. So

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Norris has sold like, we were just talking about distribution. Yeah. Headache.

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This economy did and post

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covet is a different world completely with wine. Oops.

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Are you mostly in Oregon? Because I, you know, one of the things that happened

223
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before you finish that thought, one of the things that happened here,

224
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:05,180
it's a. It was a temperature gauge of the wines

225
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that came through the door here every Tuesday of what was going on in the

226
00:14:08,020 --> 00:14:11,780
marketplace. Right. If Chile was hot or Australia was hot or New Zealand or whatever

227
00:14:11,780 --> 00:14:14,820
it was, it kind. And there was a time when there was lots of Oregon

228
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:18,480
Pinots and Chardonnays coming through, and then I didn't see them for a long

229
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,160
time. Right. So is that a function of

230
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,240
price, a function of availability, a function of the local market?

231
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,280
I think it's, you know, it could be price

232
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,600
market. You know, it depends. Like, for us, we're

233
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,320
so small, like getting a commitment down south,

234
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,200
you really gotta have someone buy in for us. Like, Oregon only makes

235
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,870
2.5% of all the wine in the United States. Well, that's.

236
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So then when you're in. Even in the smallest Ava, it's probably more like

237
00:14:48,590 --> 00:14:51,510
a 0.01%. Yeah, right. Of Ribbon Ridge.

238
00:14:52,390 --> 00:14:55,790
But yeah, I think, you know,

239
00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:59,230
maybe looking at different markets of, you know,

240
00:14:59,230 --> 00:15:02,230
California's got a lot of wine. I mean, maybe we start looking on the east

241
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:05,710
coast rather than direct competitors with

242
00:15:05,710 --> 00:15:09,510
Sonoma, Santa Rita Hills, these kind of areas, that could be a thing

243
00:15:09,510 --> 00:15:13,270
too. But really, I don't know. There's also more

244
00:15:13,270 --> 00:15:17,070
producers in Oregon now, and probably looking down. Yeah,

245
00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:20,870
maybe I. Because it's one just as much. I mean, one

246
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:24,230
of the issues for me was to bring a container down of

247
00:15:24,310 --> 00:15:27,990
Oregon wine was much more expensive than get it from Santa Rita Hills

248
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:31,670
or Napa. Totally. Just the distance alone, we've done a couple of those.

249
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:34,830
The east coast is the same for Napa as it is for Oregon. And when

250
00:15:34,830 --> 00:15:38,430
you think shipping costs, too, that's kind of a pain for buyer

251
00:15:38,430 --> 00:15:42,090
or seller. So I just got. We went to FedEx the other day to ship

252
00:15:42,090 --> 00:15:45,210
some wine to my daughter, and it was 78 bucks

253
00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:49,250
in the rack rate for a case of wine. Oh, yeah. And I was so

254
00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:53,010
happy I got out of the business. Yeah. Right now, that's the. That's

255
00:15:53,010 --> 00:15:56,810
where we see a lot. The comment of shipping, sir, looks expensive.

256
00:15:56,810 --> 00:16:00,570
And I'm like, I'm swear I'm not up charging you. That's how it is.

257
00:16:01,850 --> 00:16:05,370
So what percentage is your club? Right now,

258
00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:09,190
we're mostly focused on club. Like, we have a lot of what I

259
00:16:09,190 --> 00:16:12,910
like to call buyers who. People who aren't in the club and buy wine.

260
00:16:13,310 --> 00:16:16,710
We see a lot of tourism in the summer. Right now, we're kind of starting

261
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:19,950
to drop off, but we're just almost about

262
00:16:19,950 --> 00:16:23,710
100% in Oregon. I do local restaurants

263
00:16:23,710 --> 00:16:26,030
from the coast to Portland to,

264
00:16:27,390 --> 00:16:31,030
you know, right there in the Willamette Valley. My goal this year is to start

265
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:34,670
looking at different markets. Distribution is. Yeah,

266
00:16:34,670 --> 00:16:38,350
the logistics are on you. In other words, you have a. You have a warehouse.

267
00:16:39,010 --> 00:16:42,130
You know, like, down here, there's consolidators, so to speak. You use those kind of

268
00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:45,730
guys. We're not yet. The cool thing about our business

269
00:16:45,890 --> 00:16:49,730
also probably kind of the pain, is our

270
00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:52,850
winery. We store everything on site, so we do all our fulfillment up north.

271
00:16:53,650 --> 00:16:57,370
So my. My favorite thing to say is, like, we farm

272
00:16:57,370 --> 00:17:01,170
it. And once you buy that bottle is when it finally leaves

273
00:17:01,170 --> 00:17:04,810
the property. So nothing really ever leaves until it's. So

274
00:17:04,810 --> 00:17:08,140
quality control's pretty high. But no,

275
00:17:08,380 --> 00:17:12,180
we're at that point of boom. So it's been. We got to start

276
00:17:12,180 --> 00:17:15,980
looking at different options. And geez, what are we at now? Six. Six

277
00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:19,700
vintages in. And wow. In how many cases? Our

278
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:23,460
high point usually is about 2,000 a year. A substantial amount of

279
00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:27,220
wine to sell. Yeah, it's fun. So we make quite a bit of Riesling

280
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:31,060
and acquirement of Pinot, and people think I'm a little crazy on the Riesling,

281
00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:34,550
but it's a really special. Well, you notice that Armenian

282
00:17:34,550 --> 00:17:38,230
guy. Now you want crazy? Yeah. You know, they are

283
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:41,630
in Armenia you only grow indigenous grapes because we're the proud

284
00:17:41,630 --> 00:17:45,430
Armenians, as your dad might remember. And we only, we only

285
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:49,070
sell those kinds of wines. And this guy brought in recently, which is a, you

286
00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:52,390
know, one of those immediate crop. Right. You pick it fermented, you start selling it

287
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:55,510
right away. Right. Which is a great thing. But so what

288
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:59,830
when you started doing this, let's say you got six

289
00:17:59,830 --> 00:18:03,190
vintages. Now let's just talk about those six years. What

290
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:06,750
surprised you about the headwinds, about the market,

291
00:18:07,550 --> 00:18:11,070
about the manufacturing that you may not have expected.

292
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:16,350
So the first few years with your. Sister when she's trying to distribute. Oh yeah,

293
00:18:16,350 --> 00:18:19,470
that one too. Yeah. But yeah, no, it's.

294
00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:24,040
It's an interesting one. I mean, our first vintage looked like it was going

295
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,680
to be an incredible one, but you know, 2020 in Oregon was probably the

296
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,480
first fire vintage. So doing smoke taint and all that kind

297
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,040
of stuff, conversations, I mean, to gauge the market in a

298
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,600
2020 Covid. Did you make a 2020? We did, yeah. Was it,

299
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,440
you know, it's hard to say. Like we sold it all. People

300
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,240
enjoyed it. The fear with smoke tain is. Does it, you know, continue

301
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,210
to grow in bottles? So we moved it pretty fast.

302
00:18:51,170 --> 00:18:54,650
I still have a couple cases haven't really visited. I want to taste that. Yeah.

303
00:18:54,650 --> 00:18:58,290
Be interesting. The, the reasoning, they've fared pretty well.

304
00:18:58,850 --> 00:19:02,650
Picked later than the Pinot. So I think smoke

305
00:19:02,650 --> 00:19:06,250
impact or verasion was different. So different rape ripening,

306
00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:09,730
ripening curve. So the reasoning was we

307
00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:12,770
didn't have to really worry about that and still have quite a bit of the

308
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:16,190
20 and it's great. That's the one thing about recently that's really

309
00:19:16,190 --> 00:19:19,910
interesting. Other whites is it they can hang on for a long

310
00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:23,710
time. It's kind of like picking when you want to pick. And yeah, I mean

311
00:19:23,710 --> 00:19:27,270
the only thing, disease pressure is something maybe you got to be aware

312
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:31,029
of. But you made the comment of like bottling reasoning fast and

313
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:34,870
selling it fast. 20 kind of led us to this whole, like, are we

314
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:38,670
going to bottle the Riesling? What are we going to do? So like

315
00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:42,450
the blessing of it was we got to age it longer. So we're

316
00:19:42,450 --> 00:19:45,610
kind of on this old European model a year in barrel

317
00:19:46,090 --> 00:19:49,930
and even a year in bottle before I release it, which is wild. So this,

318
00:19:50,250 --> 00:19:53,770
this spring will release our 23s, which is kind of not

319
00:19:53,770 --> 00:19:57,530
normal, but it's kind of almost a byproduct of is this going to be good

320
00:19:57,530 --> 00:20:01,250
in your first vintage of smoke, you know, but it's really good

321
00:20:01,250 --> 00:20:04,770
for the wines. It's amazing. So that'll be interesting to

322
00:20:04,770 --> 00:20:08,520
taste. Yeah. Really fascinating. I. I actually wanted to

323
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,320
taste because a lot of the smoke. Tainted grapes were sold off as distillate.

324
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,160
Yep. In Napa. And I thought maybe that's like a, you know,

325
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,400
what's the tequila type thing? Like a Mezcal?

326
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,880
Yeah, Mezcal. Like the smoked. Yeah. Yeah. Like the instant

327
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,600
Mezcal. It could be. You know, it's a. We had a lot of

328
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,280
neighbors do the same thing. Distill it down and. Fascinating.

329
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,150
It's a good idea. So when people come and they. You have a tasting room.

330
00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:38,550
Yep. And you want them to join the club. Yeah, that's the key. I mean,

331
00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:41,950
that's where the margins are. That's where everything's great. Thanks. That guy right there. In

332
00:20:41,950 --> 00:20:45,750
1972. Exactly. For starting

333
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:49,390
that. It's. I see that a lot now. Particularly to get

334
00:20:49,390 --> 00:20:52,910
through Covid was, you know, the wineries. When we were driving to

335
00:20:52,910 --> 00:20:56,230
Napa, just before COVID it was February. Every new lockdown was coming.

336
00:20:56,630 --> 00:21:00,390
And I stopped with the Napa Valley Register beat writer and wine. And

337
00:21:00,470 --> 00:21:03,060
I thought she was going to write an article how granted the one of the

338
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:06,820
month club was. But she wanted us to tell her how these wineries that had

339
00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:10,540
no robust Internet presence. Right. Or

340
00:21:10,540 --> 00:21:14,100
club presence were going to survive this. And you couldn't. Right.

341
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:18,100
And so. But I think that's what happened with the club. And. And the gentleman

342
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:21,460
that was sitting there this morning was talking about how he wants to be the.

343
00:21:21,460 --> 00:21:25,060
By the glass, you know, which is a huge profit margin for

344
00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:28,840
most wineries because it's a. It's like an annuity. Right. Right. If you're

345
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,200
by the glass, you get an annuity, but then you run the risk of something

346
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,800
weird happening, and then you're out of sales completely.

347
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,840
Right. If, like a Covid comes, it's a. It's a good idea. I mean, by

348
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,160
the glass is also exposure, too. I think the customer is more

349
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,000
inclined to try something by the glass and going for the whole bottle.

350
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,280
But, yeah, if you put all your eggs in one basket, it's kind of. I

351
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,790
think this is kind of what we're dealing with now is how do we approach

352
00:21:54,790 --> 00:21:57,630
things differently? And I think social media is having a big play

353
00:21:58,990 --> 00:22:02,630
kind of just people are thinking and drinking differently. So

354
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:06,190
totally. When you start looking at what was happening in the past,

355
00:22:06,190 --> 00:22:08,510
sometimes I kind of wish it was still the same, but

356
00:22:10,110 --> 00:22:13,310
it's a challenge. But it's fun, you know, around my. House with my son in

357
00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:16,230
law and my daughter living with me and I'm going through my, my depletion rates

358
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:19,950
twice as fast. Yeah, exactly. It's probably a good thing. I like that kind of

359
00:22:19,950 --> 00:22:23,790
depletion rate. It gets people back in the door. So. But it's kind of

360
00:22:23,790 --> 00:22:27,440
interesting this, this power suggestion is we're talking and I'm thinking Pinot.

361
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,320
You're not gonna go home and open a pinot tonight. Yeah. It just seems like

362
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,040
it's totally. If it's. Your brain starts working that way. Yeah.

363
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,640
And once you, once you get them in your brain, it's like you gotta go

364
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,400
for it. Yeah. It's funny. It's like ever since I started making my

365
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,120
own wines, I don't. I missed going and

366
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,040
drinking outside international wines as much as I used to.

367
00:22:50,170 --> 00:22:53,970
Probably something I still should be doing, but usually wind out by the end of

368
00:22:53,970 --> 00:22:57,570
the day. What's the. What your, your demographic of your tasting

369
00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:00,970
room people are coming up for vacation?

370
00:23:01,370 --> 00:23:04,650
Yeah. A lot of plane, destination wine tour,

371
00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:08,570
destination wines. We get a lot of drivers. We see people all

372
00:23:08,570 --> 00:23:11,130
from all around the United States. So acquiring direct

373
00:23:12,810 --> 00:23:16,100
to consumer permits for shipping. So it's like

374
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,900
Atlanta, Texas, you know, North Carolina, the South. Who's doing

375
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:23,540
pretty good. What's that? Who's handling it internally?

376
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:27,700
I have a compliance guy now. It's too much. It's like dealing with the states

377
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:31,300
can be a lot. So we just got a bill from Oklahoma, my wife and

378
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:34,260
I. Yeah, we've been out of business for three years. Heather, what are you doing?

379
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:37,700
They're taxing us on something like from 2020. Like I'm paying.

380
00:23:37,860 --> 00:23:41,580
Yeah, it's. It's not fun. It's good having someone to look at

381
00:23:41,580 --> 00:23:45,260
that because what's the. Is it younger? Like one of the issues that you probably

382
00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:49,020
already know is Gen Z. I know

383
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:52,380
it happens every generation, but they still said Gen Z is not drinking this, they're

384
00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:55,660
drinking RTDs, you know, ready to drink cocktails there. There's a neo

385
00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:59,380
prohibitionist movement, you know, going on these non alk stuff, which is

386
00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:03,100
terrible. But what do you see coming to the tation? What are people saying and

387
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:06,620
what are they, what do they like the taste? You know, I think

388
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:10,500
we're seeing a lot of attention on the Riesling, which is great. That's really

389
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:14,300
cool. Super cool. I think people are changing their mind about what

390
00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:18,060
was considered. It's funny to me, everyone's like, oh, why are you doing that? It's

391
00:24:18,060 --> 00:24:21,820
hard to sell But I think the tides are shifting. One price point

392
00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:25,660
is really hard to beat, and two, it's people come to

393
00:24:25,660 --> 00:24:29,340
the valley and they can go to all the best tasting rooms or most

394
00:24:29,340 --> 00:24:32,940
iconic. I don't know if best is the right word because

395
00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:36,940
there's a lot of good producers, but they're usually

396
00:24:36,940 --> 00:24:40,730
Pinot out by day two or day three. So then they're asking tasting

397
00:24:40,730 --> 00:24:44,570
room staff, where do we go for something different? And usually our Rieslings

398
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:48,330
are somewhere on that list. And it's nice to diversify

399
00:24:48,330 --> 00:24:51,810
a little bit because Chardonnay is booming up north, and

400
00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:55,689
that's something that hasn't always succeeded. In Oregon. The first

401
00:24:55,689 --> 00:24:59,330
pioneers brought in, like, the went day clone and stuff, and

402
00:24:59,410 --> 00:25:02,610
the California clones didn't really work to where now we're

403
00:25:02,850 --> 00:25:06,530
planning French and the Dijon series, and it

404
00:25:06,530 --> 00:25:10,330
works. So now there's this huge wave of Chardonnay. So. But still, Riesling

405
00:25:10,330 --> 00:25:13,930
is kind of this subcategory that isn't really

406
00:25:14,250 --> 00:25:17,770
there when. Funny coming from the first great planet in

407
00:25:17,770 --> 00:25:20,890
Oregon. But what does that mean? Doesn't work.

408
00:25:21,450 --> 00:25:23,850
What does it define that in your. For the clones?

409
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:28,530
Let me lay the land for the listeners. You know, there's nothing

410
00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:32,250
indigenous in Oregon. There's nothing indigenous in California that grows. So you

411
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:35,710
have to bring in grape

412
00:25:35,710 --> 00:25:39,150
varietals, and there's all kinds of clones based on the grape varietals.

413
00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:43,190
Father Unipera Sarah brought in mission grapes and planted up the coast and all that,

414
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:46,990
and there's still some grown. Or you bring in a nurseryman who

415
00:25:46,990 --> 00:25:50,790
analyzes the soil. And I'll just highlight that there's a woman in

416
00:25:50,790 --> 00:25:54,550
Texas, a place called Shankoville, and her grandfather

417
00:25:54,550 --> 00:25:58,350
founded this town. There's no grapes grown anywhere near

418
00:25:58,350 --> 00:26:01,710
this place. And she hired a nurseryman, and they came up with, like,

419
00:26:01,710 --> 00:26:05,430
tannat and Turia Nacional and stuff like that to

420
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:08,340
plant there. Right. Which is kind of bizarre. But tell me what you. What do

421
00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:11,260
you mean it doesn't work for the listeners? What does that mean? Like, you planted

422
00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:14,260
it, you grew it, The. The grape, the berries came. Right.

423
00:26:15,060 --> 00:26:17,540
I think it's just achieving ripeness in a certain level.

424
00:26:19,780 --> 00:26:23,380
Speaking on Chardonnay is kind of out of my realm a little bit, like.

425
00:26:23,780 --> 00:26:27,620
But just with any kind of grape, it's like, certain clones don't always

426
00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:31,300
work in the certain place you get. So, like,

427
00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:34,640
that's what I'm trying to define. Like, well, there's a guy in

428
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,480
Kansas, right, and he went and found, like, I don't know, 15

429
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,600
indigenous wine grapes they're not vitis vinifera,

430
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,440
but they're. They were used to make wine pre prohibition. Right. And they re

431
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,200
propagate them. Now he's in like, Kansas City in the hills. Interesting.

432
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,440
And I'm like, dude, you have every freaking permutation of

433
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,440
errors that could occur. You've never used these grapes. No one's ever heard of

434
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,200
them. No one's ever tried them. And you're in an area that no one ever

435
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,010
grows grapes. Can you ever. Can you possibly mathematically find the right

436
00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:07,650
combination? I mean, maybe you do. It's. Someone's got to run through the wall. And

437
00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:11,370
I'm, you know, we see it with aging industries too, because

438
00:27:11,610 --> 00:27:15,250
just the. The older region gets. I think the more you start figuring

439
00:27:15,250 --> 00:27:19,090
out, or maybe at the time that's all you

440
00:27:19,090 --> 00:27:22,530
can get from the nursery or wherever you're buying your. Your

441
00:27:22,530 --> 00:27:26,090
grapes from. And then now it's available and someone's just like,

442
00:27:26,330 --> 00:27:30,010
well, I'll take that half acre and try it. And then it catches on

443
00:27:30,010 --> 00:27:32,970
and people start seeing. I mean, you could tell when it comes in the cellar

444
00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:36,770
and you're tasting out a barrel. You kind of know it works and doesn't.

445
00:27:36,850 --> 00:27:38,370
So. So it's just like this.

446
00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:44,170
You taste a lot of wines. This indigenous sort of feeling that

447
00:27:44,170 --> 00:27:47,810
you get that this grape probably just isn't going to

448
00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:51,250
work. Yeah. Or it just doesn't fit the ripening curve. Or,

449
00:27:51,570 --> 00:27:55,260
you know, putting Bordeaux varieties and. And where I'm at might

450
00:27:55,260 --> 00:27:59,100
not be the best. I mean, maybe it works. But like, I, you

451
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,820
know, with those cold, cold window. And I always call it such

452
00:28:02,820 --> 00:28:06,220
a short, compressed season because we lose our sunlight. Right.

453
00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:10,019
So the last couple of years, I call it kind of the

454
00:28:10,019 --> 00:28:13,580
wall of rain in Oregon. It's like. Well, sometimes you'll see with some

455
00:28:13,580 --> 00:28:17,020
vintages, it's like you look at the weather report and I.

456
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:21,620
It's not going to stop after that. So that's kind of. That's the year. Go

457
00:28:21,620 --> 00:28:25,460
get it. So it's interesting because, you know, they're.

458
00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:29,220
Struggling with climate change, and Burgundy is the first sort of

459
00:28:30,740 --> 00:28:33,940
area where it's really affecting them. And they're in

460
00:28:33,940 --> 00:28:37,700
Lujado, particularly. They're. They have nine rows of

461
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:41,460
grapes that they're testing and different canopies

462
00:28:41,460 --> 00:28:45,140
and things. Have we gotten to that point in. In. Yeah, I think

463
00:28:45,460 --> 00:28:49,260
it's something we're talking a lot about is leaf pulling strategies for

464
00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:51,140
sunlight exposure on the grapes.

465
00:28:53,020 --> 00:28:56,420
You know, those who irrigate. A lot of us still don't. Different irrigation

466
00:28:56,420 --> 00:29:00,260
strategies. I think if you're planted long enough ago,

467
00:29:00,260 --> 00:29:03,380
you didn't need to use it. Yeah. Right. Now, if it's a little bit warmer

468
00:29:03,380 --> 00:29:06,620
in the summers, a lot of people are using water to

469
00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:10,380
establish that vineyard. So, like our. Our vineyards never

470
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:14,020
been on irrigation. Planted Amazing.

471
00:29:14,020 --> 00:29:17,870
Almost 20 years ago. Wow. But to replant

472
00:29:17,870 --> 00:29:21,670
a vineyard, I'd probably look at maybe a year or two, three years

473
00:29:21,670 --> 00:29:25,390
of water would be helpful. An interesting decision you have to make because you

474
00:29:25,390 --> 00:29:29,030
really want those roots to get down there and go find water. Yeah. So the

475
00:29:29,030 --> 00:29:32,790
deeper they get, you know, chase, let them chase it. And it worked. Back then,

476
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:36,590
we got enough rain in the winter to hold over. And

477
00:29:36,590 --> 00:29:40,230
we still kind of get that. But, you know, it's extremes. We've had

478
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:44,160
like 21 vintage was. I think our extreme in Oregon was

479
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,920
almost a week of 116. I mean,

480
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,760
that's not normal. So we'll see these big swings. And

481
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,560
that's kind of the one thing we talk about with 20. So it was like

482
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,440
fires with 20 and then 116 with

483
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,120
21. And then right after, in 22, we get a crazy frost,

484
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,560
which hasn't been seen ever. So I think it's just these waves of up and

485
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,390
down rather than just extreme heat all year. So

486
00:30:09,390 --> 00:30:13,230
you're responsible for everything. Yeah. So I

487
00:30:13,230 --> 00:30:16,310
got a farming team, but it's a lot of my decisions. And then

488
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:19,750
tasting room. Tasting room. I have one employee,

489
00:30:20,550 --> 00:30:24,390
so she helps run the club and pack and ship the club.

490
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:28,430
We do all that. Yep. And then make the wines. So right now

491
00:30:28,430 --> 00:30:32,230
it's just me and the seller. For that size, it's pretty

492
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:36,040
doable. Yeah. Maybe this year we'll look at an intern or

493
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,560
something that's good. Or another employee,

494
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,200
but kind of at that point. So I know a good intern.

495
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,080
She was here as an intern, and then she now at Cornell

496
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,640
Enology school in her third or second or third year. But she

497
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,080
interned at a Chateau Bailly in Bordeaux this last summer.

498
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,840
Yeah. And she's. Which was. Which Interesting. Get your thought on this.

499
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,630
When they made her the offer, they told her she was going to be in

500
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:05,910
the vineyard. And she calls me. She's Uncle Paul. I don't, you know, I don't

501
00:31:05,910 --> 00:31:07,830
want to be in the vineyard. I go, look, honey, if you want to be

502
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:10,590
in the wine business, you're going to be in the vineyard. Yes. And they put

503
00:31:10,590 --> 00:31:14,270
her in the vineyard when they got there. And she loves the vineyard. Is

504
00:31:14,270 --> 00:31:18,070
that where the connection occurs? Yeah. It's

505
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:21,910
funny. It's starting my career. I was in the vineyard, and then, you

506
00:31:21,910 --> 00:31:25,550
know, you disappeared in the cellar and going back to the

507
00:31:25,550 --> 00:31:29,110
vineyard, I mean, I'm a true believer that everything's done in the vineyard.

508
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,480
I mean, each year I think our farming practices are getting so much better,

509
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,200
where I'm finding that I'm doing less work in the cellar. Our

510
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,680
goal is just to guide the fruit through. So really growing it is the major.

511
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,440
The major factor of all of it. I mean, each year is so wildly different.

512
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,080
It's not easy to do, but when it comes in and it

513
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,880
looks great, it makes your job so much easier. So I think

514
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,800
the most important thing is the vineyard. And.

515
00:31:58,490 --> 00:32:01,370
Let'S see if you can answer this question. Yeah, I've never really got it real

516
00:32:01,370 --> 00:32:05,170
answered. You. You do all

517
00:32:05,170 --> 00:32:09,010
these things. You. You think about the vineyard, the

518
00:32:09,010 --> 00:32:12,850
length of the vine, the roots, you think about the canopy, you think

519
00:32:12,850 --> 00:32:16,050
about the ripening period, you think about when you're going to pick it, the phenolic

520
00:32:16,050 --> 00:32:18,970
ripeness versus the technical. Right. All the things that go into

521
00:32:20,410 --> 00:32:23,890
producing. What's going to end up in that bottle and what is the

522
00:32:23,890 --> 00:32:27,730
goal? What is your personal goal of what ends up in

523
00:32:27,730 --> 00:32:31,170
that bottle? Yeah, I'm looking

524
00:32:31,330 --> 00:32:34,850
for kind of a snapshot of time.

525
00:32:34,930 --> 00:32:38,690
Like, I want something that speaks to the vintage. Thing

526
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:42,530
that really keeps you going in Oregon is that every

527
00:32:42,530 --> 00:32:46,290
vintage is so wildly different, so you can't even. And

528
00:32:46,290 --> 00:32:50,010
this is what keeps my brain rolling, which is fun, is when stuff comes

529
00:32:50,010 --> 00:32:53,290
in, it's like every year is a new playbook. Like, I.

530
00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:56,650
I can't mimic what I did the year before. So

531
00:32:57,850 --> 00:33:01,290
my goal is I want to make the best wine possible for what the vintage

532
00:33:01,290 --> 00:33:04,970
gave us, but still staying true to the site. So being

533
00:33:04,970 --> 00:33:08,810
only 100% estate, I think it's important to one, show

534
00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:12,650
the place, but also express the vintage to the

535
00:33:12,650 --> 00:33:16,450
best of its qualities, if that makes sense. Well, it seems like then your

536
00:33:16,450 --> 00:33:20,100
definition at the very beginning was very accurate in that, you know, you're really in

537
00:33:20,100 --> 00:33:23,860
its infancy, because it would all the permutations, all the different things that

538
00:33:23,860 --> 00:33:27,700
you have to think about going into a vintage based on. Right. Can

539
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:31,420
only be on experience. Totally. Like, what, having gone

540
00:33:31,420 --> 00:33:34,940
through a wet year how many times before, you realize, okay, this is how we're

541
00:33:34,940 --> 00:33:38,700
going to handle it? Right. Right. It's. Yeah. Experience is

542
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:42,500
huge, and especially experience with the site. Like, I have friends who have

543
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:46,340
the luxury of we're going to just make a blend or something

544
00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:49,580
that doesn't need to be the face of the brand, but we're going to focus

545
00:33:49,580 --> 00:33:53,180
on the vineyard for 10 years, we're going to just learn

546
00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:57,020
so we don't have to. And then after 10 years, when we understand the vineyard,

547
00:33:57,260 --> 00:34:01,060
it gets its single vineyard bottling. Not everyone

548
00:34:01,060 --> 00:34:04,700
has that luxury. So for us, it's kind of

549
00:34:04,780 --> 00:34:08,220
the business side of things, is how many wines do you want to produce?

550
00:34:08,860 --> 00:34:11,860
What kind of pinots do you want to make? How many Rieslings do you want

551
00:34:11,860 --> 00:34:15,660
to make? And then now, on my sixth year, I feel

552
00:34:15,660 --> 00:34:19,460
like we're really honing in, which is really fun to see. Just the quality's

553
00:34:19,540 --> 00:34:22,820
getting better. Everything. I mean, I always like the quality from the beginning,

554
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:27,060
but it's cool to see the improvement, just like anything else you do. So see

555
00:34:27,060 --> 00:34:29,380
if you agree with this. I just brought it up the other day, and I've

556
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:32,900
had a lot of French agreement. Not that this is a French. Yeah, we don't

557
00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:34,180
want to compare ourselves to the French,

558
00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:40,620
which is, if that's your objective, which is put in the bottle with

559
00:34:40,620 --> 00:34:44,300
the vineyard gave you that year, what the weather gave you that year,

560
00:34:44,860 --> 00:34:48,700
and try to present it. There's no such thing as a bad vintage.

561
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:53,180
I don't think so. Like, at the beginning, I thought of

562
00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:56,620
that. Like, I'm just like, oh, this is tough. This is hard. Like,

563
00:34:57,580 --> 00:35:01,180
the frost was challenging. I've never been through a frost here. Yeah.

564
00:35:01,180 --> 00:35:03,900
Something Europe's probably. Burgundy's dealt with a lot.

565
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:08,710
And having probably decades of notes, too,

566
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:11,750
is really helpful. But

567
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:16,030
the wines were really pretty. They came out really nice. I mean, even with smoke,

568
00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:19,670
it's kind of. I mean, maybe my experience in other regions with fires

569
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:23,430
helped a little bit of me understanding where what works and

570
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:27,190
doesn't. Still an unknown field, but I still

571
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:29,790
really like. A lot of the twenties. Have I had the Pinot in a while?

572
00:35:29,790 --> 00:35:33,350
No, but it's a mark. It's a fingerprint. Right.

573
00:35:33,350 --> 00:35:36,730
So I think as a winemaker, it's nice to put that

574
00:35:36,730 --> 00:35:40,570
fingerprint on the vintage. And I think even

575
00:35:41,450 --> 00:35:44,410
20, 25, they had smudge pots out in

576
00:35:44,810 --> 00:35:48,490
Burgundy. Oh, yeah. It's seems to be a common

577
00:35:48,490 --> 00:35:52,050
thing. Yeah. We see usually

578
00:35:52,050 --> 00:35:55,490
warmer weather around the start of September. So really, I feel like

579
00:35:55,490 --> 00:35:58,730
September has been kind of our gauge of what the vintage is going to look

580
00:35:58,730 --> 00:36:02,270
like or early for frost, the kind of that early.

581
00:36:02,590 --> 00:36:06,350
Interesting thought, because you see a lot of winemakers

582
00:36:06,350 --> 00:36:10,070
that travel the world. They sometimes do two harvests a year. They'll go to the

583
00:36:10,070 --> 00:36:13,070
south, you know, Southern hemisphere, and they'll come back. And

584
00:36:14,670 --> 00:36:18,430
winemakers like to get experience. They'll go to New Zealand, they'll make one in Australia,

585
00:36:18,430 --> 00:36:21,870
they'll make one in France. And I always thought, okay, what if you took

586
00:36:22,030 --> 00:36:25,550
your experience so far 20 years in the vineyard.

587
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,080
You know that vineyard as well as you can know for 20 years

588
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,520
and you brought another winemaker to pick the same grapes and you work side by

589
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,040
side and you get two different wines. One is. Does not know the

590
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,880
vineyard who's only made wine all over the world and just sort of. Yeah.

591
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,640
I mean a little bit of. That's how I started around the

592
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,080
world and then figuring it out the site.

593
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,160
I think you do. I mean there is cellar terroir too is like

594
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,010
what I like to say because I mean people feel a different way, they taste

595
00:36:56,010 --> 00:36:59,850
a different way. Like if you put some of my favorite

596
00:36:59,850 --> 00:37:03,090
things is to look at a single vineyard sold to multiple people.

597
00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:06,650
And Oregon's done a lot of this experience. It's like we're going to pick it

598
00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:09,690
all on the same day and the bins are just going to go to the.

599
00:37:09,690 --> 00:37:13,170
We'll mix them all up and they're going to go to the three different winemakers

600
00:37:13,570 --> 00:37:17,370
and they've. There's still the site. I think if you can look

601
00:37:17,370 --> 00:37:21,020
through all the different choices of barrels and how, you

602
00:37:21,020 --> 00:37:24,380
know, you decided to do cap management or seller

603
00:37:24,380 --> 00:37:28,180
techniques. I think there's always a. A sign of the base tones like I

604
00:37:28,180 --> 00:37:31,300
was saying, but wildly different human contact

605
00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:34,980
because. So I suppose that's a great example of that.

606
00:37:35,460 --> 00:37:38,660
You don't need to bring all these wine makers. You just. You're selling the grapes

607
00:37:38,660 --> 00:37:41,780
anyway. It's from the same vineyard and you're going to get. The guy down the

608
00:37:41,780 --> 00:37:44,820
road is going to make a different wine than you make from the same grapes.

609
00:37:45,460 --> 00:37:49,010
And so then it. Then you wonder if your

610
00:37:49,170 --> 00:37:52,890
experience in that vineyard gives you an

611
00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:56,570
advantage. I certainly would give you an advantage in expressing that vineyard because you know

612
00:37:56,570 --> 00:38:00,370
it. Yeah. May not be as readily

613
00:38:00,610 --> 00:38:03,929
publicly accepted the way you make it from another person. Maybe they put a little

614
00:38:03,929 --> 00:38:07,730
more sugar and leave a little sugar. People like it more. But your expression is

615
00:38:07,730 --> 00:38:11,170
going to be more accurate to what that. What was going on.

616
00:38:11,570 --> 00:38:15,020
You think, you know, there's a woman that I had on the show. She.

617
00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:19,020
She was in her parents chateau when the Nazis came in and

618
00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:22,220
shot it up. She is the Comtesse de Pichon

619
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:25,900
Longueville still around. She's 100. And I

620
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:29,100
always thought that those stories as well

621
00:38:29,580 --> 00:38:33,300
handed down through the generations. You were talking about notes earlier like the notes

622
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:37,140
of. You know, for the life of me trying to remember

623
00:38:37,140 --> 00:38:40,860
Guillem Large's predecessor. He's a very famous

624
00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:44,260
guy. So famous I can't remember his name. The

625
00:38:44,660 --> 00:38:47,540
Jacques Latier. Yeah, Jacques. Great guy.

626
00:38:49,220 --> 00:38:52,860
That those experiences and those conversations around the

627
00:38:52,860 --> 00:38:56,700
dinner time. The, the, the expression has to

628
00:38:56,700 --> 00:39:00,220
show up. It's not going to show up as more acid or more fruit, but

629
00:39:00,220 --> 00:39:04,020
the philosophy of that person, which is rounded by the stories

630
00:39:04,020 --> 00:39:07,740
they've heard and experience. Yeah. Creates something in

631
00:39:07,740 --> 00:39:11,260
that bottle. Totally. And the team too. I mean seller

632
00:39:11,260 --> 00:39:15,080
teams. Like if you're, you know, sometimes you have those aha moments

633
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,560
when you're having family lunch or dinner and open

634
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,880
different producers wines around the world or not. It strikes

635
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,600
conversation. And then I've been in harvest where head

636
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,240
winemaker might be like, you know, maybe we try that tomorrow or like

637
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,760
figure out something that's somewhat similar to that producer. It's kind of.

638
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,760
But yet notes and experience and I mean

639
00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:42,210
some of these European families I'm so envious of is just books and

640
00:39:42,210 --> 00:39:45,810
books of stuff. And then history plays a role too. Right. So like you were

641
00:39:45,810 --> 00:39:48,890
saying, with World War II, that can change everything.

642
00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:53,610
So it just changes the lifestyle. And I think, I think I agree

643
00:39:53,610 --> 00:39:57,450
with you. I'm jealous of, it's kind of interesting this. The grass is always

644
00:39:57,450 --> 00:40:01,130
greener. I'm very jealous of the French protection of

645
00:40:01,290 --> 00:40:04,330
not only their grapes, but their cheese, their, their butter

646
00:40:05,210 --> 00:40:09,050
regional. But that's also the reason why they come to Willamette Valley

647
00:40:09,050 --> 00:40:12,010
to make Pinot Noir. And why they go to the

648
00:40:12,650 --> 00:40:16,370
Armenia to. To. To make wines is because there's

649
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:20,130
no rules. It's freedom. So it's like, yeah, we get to, it's. We

650
00:40:20,130 --> 00:40:23,450
get to do whatever we want, essentially. I mean there's still baseline rules,

651
00:40:24,090 --> 00:40:27,890
state rules and stuff, but we're so lenient, you know, we, we

652
00:40:27,890 --> 00:40:31,730
don't get, we don't get the borders of within one area kind of.

653
00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:35,430
I mean, doesn't it intrigue you? Like, like and for the listeners, William

654
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:39,030
Large runs a Resonance winery which is a French owned

655
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:43,870
vin vineyard and winery. But don't you

656
00:40:43,870 --> 00:40:46,310
wonder about a guy like that? Like, I love the guy. And it's like you

657
00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:49,710
brought your whole family here and you parked him here and you're in Oregon and

658
00:40:49,710 --> 00:40:53,350
you're just, you're reliving a lifestyle, right? I, I'm

659
00:40:53,350 --> 00:40:56,910
jealous of that. Personally, I wish. That's pretty cool. I mean, I'm sure

660
00:40:56,910 --> 00:41:00,630
his English has gotten better and you know, all that, it's just a.

661
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:05,320
Putting yourself in a new place and learning, I think is incredible.

662
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,080
So, so what's next for you guys. Oh, man.

663
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,960
Just keep this date going. I mean, keep on honing in the craft,

664
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,640
hoping to get more recognition. You know, people know we

665
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,960
exist right now. You know, we're so small that,

666
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,040
you know, small but big. Kind of in this weird little realm where

667
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,920
people like to find that we're a hidden gem and they found us. Which

668
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,680
I think builds that long lasting connection. You know,

669
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,960
we're. When they're sending us emails right now, it's me or one other person

670
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,720
responding, you know, and. Or if you come in in the summer,

671
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,360
you're. I very well probably will be

672
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,160
pouring you wines, which is really neat. I mean, I'm sure

673
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,800
that'll change a little bit, but yeah, it'd be nice.

674
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,040
To, you know, submitting to journals and stuff.

675
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,220
Oh, yeah, yeah. So getting ratings. Yeah. Right now we're working

676
00:41:59,220 --> 00:42:02,820
with two different ones. Probably should be doing more, but,

677
00:42:02,980 --> 00:42:06,380
you. Know, you know, you do what you can. This guy just was here, was

678
00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:10,020
like, we just got a gold medal at the rodeo uncorked. I'm like,

679
00:42:10,020 --> 00:42:13,820
I heard of it. Yeah. It's almost a 3,000 bottle tasting, so it's

680
00:42:13,820 --> 00:42:17,620
substantial. Wow. Yeah. And so I thought. And that's. Once

681
00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:21,420
you get that, I mean, it's still marketing that.

682
00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:24,370
I mean, it doesn't change the. No, I mean,

683
00:42:25,090 --> 00:42:28,210
maybe, you know, I hope people still look at that kind of stuff.

684
00:42:28,850 --> 00:42:32,410
And we've been doing big, bigger publications like the Spectator,

685
00:42:32,410 --> 00:42:36,090
Wine Spectator or Suckling or there's so many new ones

686
00:42:36,090 --> 00:42:39,890
now, it's hard to kind of keep up. But, you know,

687
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:43,650
I think it's exposure, you know, and anything, any score

688
00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:47,450
helps. Or where would you be comfortable volume wise,

689
00:42:47,450 --> 00:42:50,850
you know, 2,000 cases, where would. You feel like, oh, man,

690
00:42:51,730 --> 00:42:55,370
with the team growing right now, 2,000 is

691
00:42:55,370 --> 00:42:59,010
great. Like, that's our 12 acres. 2,000. It's great.

692
00:42:59,250 --> 00:43:02,970
That was a heavy year. Heavy and great year, which you can't say

693
00:43:02,970 --> 00:43:06,610
that all the time, but so floating between that thousand

694
00:43:06,610 --> 00:43:10,370
and two thousand cases is really

695
00:43:10,370 --> 00:43:14,130
good for our small team. But yeah, I could see us grow,

696
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:17,780
maybe step off the property. I mean, I think

697
00:43:18,820 --> 00:43:21,780
something we've done well is cautiously

698
00:43:22,420 --> 00:43:25,980
do stuff like don't just jump into projects or make new

699
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:29,300
wines or make 50 SKUs. You know, there is

700
00:43:29,860 --> 00:43:33,460
patience with this. You know, we only get one shot a year,

701
00:43:33,540 --> 00:43:36,900
so let's make sure we're sticking true to the brand,

702
00:43:37,140 --> 00:43:40,820
you know, and. And not go too wild or, you know, we don't

703
00:43:40,820 --> 00:43:43,910
need a bunch of small skus that no one's ever going to Try, you know,

704
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:47,630
so that one. Shot a year is such an important concept because

705
00:43:48,350 --> 00:43:52,030
it's so slow. So slow. And it's a lot of work. You know, I don't

706
00:43:52,030 --> 00:43:54,510
envy brewers, you know, Go make me more.

707
00:43:56,910 --> 00:43:59,710
Well, it's great having you in and having a chance to talk about it, catch

708
00:43:59,710 --> 00:44:02,630
up on. Last time you're here was like, I don't know, five, seven years ago,

709
00:44:02,630 --> 00:44:06,150
maybe. Yeah. It's been a while. You were just dabbling in the idea.

710
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:09,520
Oh, yeah. Hanging out, tasting with you. It was fun. Yeah.

711
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,360
Seeing different people and your dad. Different story. But you. Yeah. Yeah,

712
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,880
I get that. And you're down for Thanksgiving? Thanksgiving.

713
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,520
Yep. And we're gonna pour Pinot Noir with turkey, of course. Yeah. Oh,

714
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,320
yeah. And then back to. I mean, drinking Riesling, too. I've been

715
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,120
really into the white wines. So dry. Is

716
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,920
it driver's? Yeah, we really lean dry. I think the vineyard likes dry

717
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,500
wines, so I've made a couple sweeter, but it's

718
00:44:35,980 --> 00:44:39,260
not as lovely as the dry, in my opinion. You know, Riesling is

719
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:42,940
really a noble grape, and it's so versatile

720
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:46,420
that it can make those wonderful dry wines. And then, of course, the typical spay

721
00:44:46,420 --> 00:44:49,940
lasers and those kinds of slightly sweeter wines. And then, of course,

722
00:44:49,940 --> 00:44:53,540
amazing late harvest wines. Yeah. And, you know, Hans

723
00:44:53,540 --> 00:44:57,340
Cornell, which I don't think they're around anymore, but they were making sparkling wine

724
00:44:57,340 --> 00:45:01,020
in Napa Valley for years. Yeah. They're in the early days out of Riesling.

725
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:04,780
Yeah. It's amazing. It's so versatile, and it's like, there's not a lot of us

726
00:45:04,780 --> 00:45:08,540
up there, but, you know, I think we can hold our

727
00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:12,180
own against some of the best. And, you know,

728
00:45:12,420 --> 00:45:15,460
it makes it come back. Yeah, me too. I. I think,

729
00:45:16,420 --> 00:45:20,140
you know, it's misunderstood. And my favorite thing in the

730
00:45:20,140 --> 00:45:23,420
tasting room is winning people over because they're like, oh, I don't want to try

731
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:26,820
it. It's sweet. Yeah. It's like, we paid for the tasting here. Just give it

732
00:45:26,820 --> 00:45:30,060
a shot, kind of. That's. And then they do. And they're like, whoa. I actually

733
00:45:30,060 --> 00:45:33,470
really like this. And you're like, well, you're. You know, don't let these,

734
00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:37,630
you know, little things, you know,

735
00:45:38,670 --> 00:45:42,390
don't let them distract you. The sweetness and. Or if you don't

736
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:46,230
understand the words on the bottle or. Usually that's kind of a scary thing with

737
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:49,790
the German wines. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense when you understand it, but,

738
00:45:50,270 --> 00:45:53,270
you know, I always give a little tip of, like, look at the alcohol percentage

739
00:45:53,270 --> 00:45:56,270
on the back. If you don't. If you don't know. It's a good one. Yeah.

740
00:45:56,270 --> 00:45:57,950
Cheers. Cheers. Take care.