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It is the DNA of the grape that determines the shape of the glass. When

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we develop a new shape for a specific grape variety, we never do it on

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our own. We always surround ourselves with some of

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the bigger and smaller winemakers from a particular region.

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Nothing is done on a computer. Trial and error. It's all about smell,

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taste, mouth, feel, texture, aftertaste. And we can only do

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this with the true influences of wine, which to me, are the winemakers.

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Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks

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with Paul K.

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Hey. Hey. Welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And yes, I am the guy

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that sold 17 million bottles of wine direct to the consumer and tasted

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100,000 wines along the way. We're here to have a conversation with

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Maximilian Rudel. Introductions in just a moment, but Wine Talks here

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is to tell the stories, the stories of wine, because wine is more than a

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story, what is in the glass. It's about why it's in the glass. And since

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we're with Maximilian today, we're going to talk about the glass. Yes. Welcome to the

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show. Thank you, Paul. Thank you for having me. You know, we were just talking

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a little bit about, you know, how important the glassware is,

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and I've tasted wine from in plastic tumblers to.

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To your fabulous glassware. But last night at dinner,

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mentioned to my friends, I'm going to see Maximilian Riddell.

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Riedel. Riddell, the way you want to pronounce it, but it's Riedel.

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Rhymes with needle. That's the way it works. Oh, okay. Riedel.

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And he said, why does that happen? Why?

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It just tastes better when we put it in the proper glass. Is there a

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simple answer to that? Well, nowadays it sounds

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simple, but when my grandfather did the research in the

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1950s, people thought he was on the wrong

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path. And over the next two

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generations, the wine world, including the consumer, became

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very much aware about the importance of the instrument, the tool,

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or how I like to call it, the loudspeaker for fine wine. And

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yes, the glass makes a difference. And it's very easy to test this

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at home. If you have real or not, just put the same beverage

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into different shaped vessels, smell and taste the difference, you

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will be amazed. It's kind of interesting because it's. And

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I have a hard time explaining it as well, to the extent that it is

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the same chemical compound in both glasses. If I put it in a

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plastic tumbler or put it in a fine crystal glassware, it

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is the same thing that's inside, but it's the vessel

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that is changing its perception. No, it's not the vessel, it's

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not the material, it is the flow, it is the

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shape, the architecture, the design that we have been

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studying. I mean, we are the oldest glass producing company in the world.

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We are in the 11th generation producing glass since

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270 years. And only the last three

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generations really fell in love with wine. As I said,

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1950s. And it's very interesting

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when we talk about white wine versus red wine, different shaped

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glasses used. When we talk about thin skinned red

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fruit such as Pinot Noir versus Cabernet, which is a very thick

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skinned red fruit, the glass can help, the glass can

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support the glass cannot change the wine.

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Yeah. So I suppose molecularly it's the same stuff. It's

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the same stuff. Correct. It's besides food

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having an influence over what you're doing.

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It is an important feature that I like to show people,

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and particularly at my home, when they come and they ask that question,

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are we talking about wine? And wine to a lot of people is an intimidating

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subject. But when you break it down to something as simple as this,

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as interesting as this, it starts to raise an eyebrow. Like, wow, I didn't even

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know this. Part of what you know. Yes,

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appreciate a glass of wine is how is it that it's only been three generations?

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I mean, you have 11 generations here in the company. Yeah, but you're saying the

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last three, maybe four generations had the

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appreciation for. For wine? Well, because wine, obviously,

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if you open history books, it has a long history. But the way how we

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enjoy it nowadays with food, and we're not

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royals or related to the church, it's fairly new, it's fairly

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unique. And so only in the

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1950 in Europe, people drank wine as a

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pleasure because wine was then seen as energy. You

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know, people who worked the fields, they got a glass of wine or beer.

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That's also the tradition. The concept behind the beer is the nutrition

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that it carries. So to make wine

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palatable the way we enjoy it now, I think my grandfather

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was there at the right time. And the first glass collection

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he dedicated to the world of wine was called sommelier

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in the 1970s. Wow. Word was even around that. Imagine.

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And in the 1970s, why call it sommelier? Because then

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the true wine influences were the sommeliers. If a sommelier said, this wine

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is good, it's going to be on my wine list, then you made it as

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a producer. Of course, times have changed, but

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only in the 1970s, the world really became aware

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of using proper stemware to enjoy wine, including the

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professionals. Now, how did crystal, lead, crystal at that

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time become the important factor of, you

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know, the breakdown of a glass? Or was it. Was it crystal in the first

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place? Lead crystal then was popular. It was

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introduced, invented by a gentleman called George

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Ravenscroft, turn of the century, 100,

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200 years ago. And the reason why lead was added

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was so that you could not only shape the glass, you

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had a longer period of time because it softened the glass to a

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certain degree. But in those those days, glasses were more art

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objects, so it was important to color them, it was important

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to engrave them. And for that, you needed the lead

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composition. Nowadays, we have replaced it. I don't want to call it

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organic, but it's much more environmental

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friendly in the production and in the recycling way. Was it really a bleed

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at that time? That's not even part of our subject matter. But was it really

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a bleed of lead into various beverages that

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were put into a lead? Well, I can't confirm that. I mean,

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obviously in those days, people have done tests, especially for

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decanters to hold whiskeys and

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other beverages. And I don't think that in those days

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people died of lead poisoning from crystal decanters. I think that the environment

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then was so poisoning. There were other reasons now, going back. To

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the wine and your. Your grandfather

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realizing. And that was the 70s, an important part of the wine

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path for Americans, of course, with the judgment of Paris correct. But

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I always, I contend that wine really hasn't changed that much in the

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last 6,000 years. It's still a fermented, it's a picked grape.

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Certainly we find the processes and we. And I've always asked the question of the

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winemakers, what is your end goal? What are you trying to do? Why are

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you spending so much time experimenting and innovating in the

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vineyard to do this? And I guess it's just to refine the expression of the

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wine. And. And certainly your glassware has a ton to do with that

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in these. These days. Is that appreciation being felt throughout

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the trade, in the restaurant trade, the consumer trade,

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that. That the. Your glass. We want more,

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right? Yes. No, I mean, it's a very good question,

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and I'm very thankful for that. I can only say I was just

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in Aspen, Colorado, with my family for them the first

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time, and I would say every other restaurant carried our

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product because they have paid attention to the wine

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portfolio. Wine has become a very important part of

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the restaurant dining industry, and it

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made me very proud and very happy. And it's similar

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all over the world because it's the consumer that

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demands it, I believe because the consumer

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is aware that the glass can have an impact on how we

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taste. People want to get the most out of their investment.

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To me, every bottle of wine is an investment depending on your budget.

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And obviously, we're not only working with the consumer and

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the restaurant trade. We are working with cruise ship industry. And they

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have done a lot of tests and they have learned that if they use proper

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stemware, maybe fine crystal,

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nowadays, the lighter the better. Interesting enough.

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In the old days, we had to explain how to proper polish them

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so they don't break. Nowadays, people seem to have gotten beyond that point.

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And the cruise industry has proven back to us that if you

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serve good wine in best wine glasses,

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it motivates you to maybe enjoy a glass or two more. So

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you're in Aspen with your family and you have children? Yes.

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One of the questions I had here was like your earliest recollection of

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the glass industry and whether you were going to default into

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the glass industry or that you had ambitions to do other things. Like many

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winemakers, come back to their family trade.

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So for you, was that the case? And then how about your kids? Yeah. So

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I'm very thankful towards my parents

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for the education that my sister and I have received. We are a family

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business. We're not the third generation that wants to sell. I'm the 11th

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generation. We are way beyond that. But it took also my

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parents, obviously a lot of creativity

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to make it interesting to me. I could have done everything in the world. I

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could have become a manager of a bank, for example. But my parents

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sold me the concept to be so interesting to world to

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work in the wine and in the wine glass industry, that this is all I

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wanted to do. And bringing up my kids, it's very similar. They're

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very young. Obviously they're not allowed to taste wine, but they're allowed

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to smell. They come to some of my tastings.

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I invite them. I want them to engage with the.

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The concept. I want them to be interested. I mean, for me, when I saw

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my dad for the first time on stage talking about our glasses to a bigger

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audience, he was like my hero. That's what I wanted to do. It's like watching

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a movie over and over again. And so I'm trying to do the same with

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my kids. I don't want to be the last. Let's put it this way, it

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has to be a 12th generation. That's fair enough. You know,

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for me, my father asked me to join him in

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1988. I had already been at Corporate America and already

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started a software company with five guys and no money and a bunch of business

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cards. And I wasn't. I didn't go to it because I thought this

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was an amazing industry. And I. I worked in it, my father's store, many

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years. But it took a few years for me to understand how

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valuable this interesting and important

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a glass of wine is to the human story

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culture. Yes. And I find that

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fascinating. It's not every day. It's not a day that doesn't go by that I

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don't thank my dad for having introduced me to this. Beautiful. And being part of,

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you know, the storytelling of it. Because it's just every

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person who. Like Today you have 500 people coming to your

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seminar. Unbelievable. In Los Angeles. So excited. Yes. And you're

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gonna. Every one of these people is gonna walk away better off than

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they were when they got there and more interested in telling your

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story. Yes. But of course, social media helps. You know, I've

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become, for whatever reason, very engaged with social media. There

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was a time where I was seeking a new way

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of communicating my product, especially to the

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younger audience. And social media came around the corner. And since day

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one, I was on Facebook. I was on Instagram. Originally, I saw it as a

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dating site. You know, I mean, let's not forget, when Facebook came out, what did

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we do? We were looking, we were peeking and sleeking. But nowadays

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I use it to communicate. And when I look at my nephews at the age

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of 19, they're my biggest fans. Not because I'm the

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coolest uncle. It's because they love what I do on Instagram. That's so interesting.

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I've noticed that. You know, and. And for sure, in this industry,

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I think that the industry in general, the wine industry, is slow to take that

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up. And this is one of the complaints, you know, you. You grasp it.

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Why? Because you think you're a star or something or. No. I tell you,

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wine is alcohol. And alcohol lately has a very tough time

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when we think about the birthplace, such as France. And it.

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Communication, advertising of alcohol is forbidden. And this

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is very sad. Not because of the term alcohol, but wine

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is part of every country's culture. That's true. And in

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America, you're allowed to advertise drugs. Good

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point. Billboards on the freeway. And what about wine?

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Yeah. Just because it falls under the category. And of course,

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it has been seen as a drug. It has damaged a lot of people

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or whatever. But wine goes

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with food. Wine is not something that you like a Whiskey

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consume on its own. Wine is culture.

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And there needs to be, of course, a limitation to it. Well,

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I have this theory and I bring it up all the time, and that is

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if you were to take, let's just say, five elements of a culture.

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Language, if you have a language. Land. If you have land.

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I'm Armenian. We have land. The food, the music

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and the wine. I agree with you. This part of the definition of

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your culture. And it's tradition. It's an expression. Yes. In the

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Austrian tradition with the grapes you have there, is

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it part of the culture? Absolutely. I mean, when you go to Austria,

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all the restaurants serve you Austrian wines, but of course, they're very

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international. We are a very small country. But when we talk about Austrian wines,

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we have some very local grapes, Grunewaldline, which has

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its origin in Austria, Blau Frankisch. I mean, these

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are all Austrian homegrown grape varieties that

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around the world are being faced with great respect and. And

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we celebrate that. I've seen recently there was a tasting here in la, not

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too far from here, that it was mostly Gruner

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and what a wide variety of styles that

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were coming from that part. And I absolutely. From the.

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From what you call supermarket versions to very elegant,

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sophisticated versions. I was stunned by that. And, you know, breaking a

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new grape. And again, I'm Armenian, so they're trying to bring grapes.

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Armenian grapes. Adoni, Voskahad, Kangun, all these crazy names.

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I've made glasses for them. Oh, have you? Yes, yes, yes, yes. I even

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made recently a decanter that you can see with the Armenian flag

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on my Instagram. So we do this. Why did that happen? We do that because,

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first of all, the wine culture is aware that a glass

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can make a difference. They see it also as a vehicle for

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communication. Advertisement meaning we're making glasses for Dom perignon, croque,

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champagne, etc. But why not make it for local grape varieties like

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Saparabi from Georgia? So we have done that

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with great respect and great success. So we're doing this to, of

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course, also work ourselves into some local markets. Are you the first

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of the generations then, that has reached out to,

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you know, to facilitate this kind of, like I say, flexibility,

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but sort of this approach to doing things like finding grapes, like

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Otany and producing grapes. Grapes, Glasses around the

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style. Well, it was initiated by my dad. He was the first

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interesting project that we had. Let's not only talk about

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wine because we make glasses for nearly every beverage. And he was

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invited by the government of Tequila. I'm not saying Mexico.

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I'm saying tequila because obviously the quila, it's a stage. And

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they invited him. And the president of Mexico gave him

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a medal of honor for making the very first glass

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for tequila. Not to get wasted

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over it in form of a shot, but to enjoy it, like

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fine wine. And it's amazing. I mean, nowadays we talk more about

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reposado and angejo than about blanco. Well,

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it is a properly made tequila. Fine tequila

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is really more like a brandy. You sip it. Amazing. And you swirl it and

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you smell it. If you have it in a proper glass, you can smell it.

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It's amazing. You know, actually, that brings up the interesting point.

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Since your father was honored by the state of tequila,

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I mean, you've sat with and been to and

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discussed the trade with some of the greatest minds in this

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business. Sure. You've seen. Is there something. I mean,

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I know I have an answer for the question, but do you see a

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unifying thread of these in the intellect

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of people that do this with such,

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I guess, importance? Well, yes

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and no. It depends on the country. It depends on the different

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producers. Some of the producers that we all know

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have become very cocky because they have made it and they think that they

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are at the height. But

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you know, when you are getting the chance to sit with some humble

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people, like Robert de Vilain from de Mont de Romelu

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Conti, he is the most kind, most gentle person.

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Person. He reminds me very much of Robert Mondavi.

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He's open for any kind of question, any kind of discussion.

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And I'm always invited and I feel very honored. Every December

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in Paris when they release the new vintage underground. It's truly

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underground for a very small group of people. I've been invited

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ever since, and it fascinates me to talk about

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a wine that the whole world knows and respects. Maybe some of them

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even sees it as the best wine in the world. And the people behind it

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stay so humble. And I love that.

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It's such a. Just as a tangent to that.

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I sold some real estate. It was a rather large

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transaction for me anyway. And at the end of the

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transaction, and this is just before it closes, it's. A couple years ago,

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I had promised the buyer a bottle of DRC

294
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Latash. Fantastic. And he was there the

295
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next day. You know, this is a big enough transaction where the money came from

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Japan to build these apartments, whatever it was. He was there the next

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day at my office and said, where's my wine? Fantastic. I go,

298
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you went through all this two years with this headache and you're worried about

299
00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:35,100
the wine. Closed the deal. It closed the deal. Imagine, totally close the deal. It's

300
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such an iconic beverage. Yes. And if you've never had it, I tell

301
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you, you will not be disappointed. But the

302
00:18:42,780 --> 00:18:46,220
expectations might be very high as well. At the end, it's a great

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bottle of wine made in. In a way that most wines are

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made. But what makes the difference is

305
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terroir is the dirt on which the vines grow.

306
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They get the energy and they make the best wines. Is that what

307
00:19:01,790 --> 00:19:04,990
your glassware? And I actually was sitting with

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Mariam Sakatalian at a little wine shop called Envino in Yerevan,

309
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Armenia, and she had just gotten whatever certification you

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00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:16,470
offer for study it. Yes, Ambassador. Real ambassador.

311
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Ambassador. Right. So she excited about that, and she says, you know, we have

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00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:23,290
a great. A glass for Ottomy. And I thought.

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I thought, that's really cool. And we discussed that. But is that what the

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objective would be then, when you sit down with

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varietal, to find the shape that best

316
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expresses its terroir, where it's coming from? Like, does

317
00:19:38,370 --> 00:19:41,890
it feel like. I just tasted Armenian wine yesterday, it was sent to me and

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I tasted the minerality that comes from that part of the world. It doesn't

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always happen. Yeah, yeah. Is that the objective of. Well, the objective is the DNA

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of the grape variety. My glasses don't change

321
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because the vintage changes or the blend

322
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goes 1% up or down. It is the DNA of

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the grape that determines the shape of the glass. This is exactly

324
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what. When we develop a new shape for a specific grape variety, we never

325
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do it on our own. We always surround ourselves with some

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of the bigger and smaller winemakers from a particular

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region. A lot of wine is made in

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different styles. That's also very important to understand. So we want to cover all

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the styles. And so it's a tough job.

330
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Nothing is done on a computer. Trial and error. It's all about smell,

331
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taste, mouth, feel, texture, aftertaste. And we can only do

332
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this with the true influences of wine, which to me, are the winemakers.

333
00:20:38,750 --> 00:20:42,390
Is this a group inside Riedel? You know, it's like Michelin guide. You know,

334
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:46,050
it's the same people that go around or you're sitting. It's me

335
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and it was my dad before, and before that, it's my grandfather. We are

336
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blessed with a good palate. Yes. I mean, if we wouldn't have our

337
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senses, we couldn't do the job. No. It's interesting,

338
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though, because last night, as I was tasting and writing notes for this Armenian

339
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winemaker, I've known this of myself before. I'm

340
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not great at determining and talking about fruit impressions

341
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or equating it to satsuma plum, stuff

342
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like that. But I did notice that my palate is really good at structure,

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like understanding the flow and the transition and the length of

344
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the finish, all those kinds of things that happen with the structure. And I suppose

345
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you see that as well, where people's interpretation of what your

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00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,440
glass is doing have different impressions on what they're doing. Absolutely.

347
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But we try to keep them tamed because obviously if I say it's sour

348
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and somebody says no, it's sweet, then we have an issue that's a problem.

349
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Do you think that this is the intimidating

350
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part of wine or the aristocracy of wine

351
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that these generations supposedly, which you and I

352
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have been watching the news, listening to people on LinkedIn, et cetera, that,

353
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you know, the Gen Z's don't want this, they just want to have an experience.

354
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Do you agree with that? So I tell you my personal

355
00:22:01,810 --> 00:22:05,330
point of view. It's very personal. I think that

356
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some of the fine dining

357
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world restaurants have

358
00:22:15,090 --> 00:22:18,890
taken too much advantage of fine wine in the sense that they see this

359
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as a money maker. And

360
00:22:23,170 --> 00:22:26,970
a good example is when we talk about wine

361
00:22:26,970 --> 00:22:30,810
lists, people getting awards for it. For me, what is

362
00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:34,250
a good wine list, of course, is an assortment of different grape

363
00:22:34,250 --> 00:22:37,810
varieties from different countries. But most important is the fair price.

364
00:22:38,140 --> 00:22:41,620
And that's where we are right now, the fair price. It

365
00:22:41,620 --> 00:22:45,420
cannot be that I pay for the same bottle of wine. And I know

366
00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:48,980
because of my global distribution about import tax

367
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,660
and duty, so nobody needs to fool me on that. It

368
00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:56,420
cannot be that. In a country like France, for example, Dom Perignon is

369
00:22:56,420 --> 00:23:00,220
double the price than it is in Los Angeles. That's a ripoff. Good. There's

370
00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:04,020
absolutely no reason, there is no excuse for that. And it needs to be pointed

371
00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:07,540
out. So you can see you just poked me the right way because I

372
00:23:07,540 --> 00:23:11,200
feel that the young gener doesn't have the

373
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,040
access to fine wine because it has gotten too expensive. And we have

374
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,880
to reconsider that. I rather pay for

375
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,280
the chef's creation a wonderful plate of food more

376
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,360
than being overpaying for wine. There is no sense behind

377
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:30,080
this. Why do I have to go through a three star Michelin restaurant and

378
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,720
pay triple the price on a bottle of wine? You're right. If you want to

379
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,440
cover the cost, which is absolutely fair and you should do so, but

380
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,170
put it in a into the price point of either

381
00:23:41,170 --> 00:23:44,970
service or the food because that's what you're famous for. Don't try

382
00:23:44,970 --> 00:23:48,810
to steal it by increasing the wine prices to a

383
00:23:48,810 --> 00:23:51,690
point where it's not fun anymore to drink wine,

384
00:23:52,570 --> 00:23:56,370
it's absolutely right. And I think the best evidence

385
00:23:56,370 --> 00:23:59,690
of that is you can probably go in this neighborhood and go to three different

386
00:23:59,690 --> 00:24:03,410
restaurants and find considerably different prices for the same bottle of wine. Absolutely. And

387
00:24:03,410 --> 00:24:07,130
there is, for me, always. How. Should I call it?

388
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:10,890
A benchmark. There are three, four wines around the world that every wine list

389
00:24:10,890 --> 00:24:14,330
carries. And based on that, I see if the restaurant is

390
00:24:14,330 --> 00:24:18,050
overcharging for wine or not. And this. Sometimes it gets to a point

391
00:24:18,050 --> 00:24:21,690
where I only would like to drink water just to

392
00:24:21,690 --> 00:24:25,330
send a signal. Good, yes, I can afford it, but I don't want to

393
00:24:25,330 --> 00:24:29,090
because it's not fair. And I

394
00:24:29,090 --> 00:24:32,290
think that this is one of the main drivers. And if I ask my nephews

395
00:24:33,020 --> 00:24:36,420
who are brought up in a

396
00:24:36,420 --> 00:24:39,940
restaurant dining environment, and imagine the

397
00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:43,700
boys are between 19 and 21, obviously in

398
00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:47,380
Europe, they're allowed to drink alcohol at that age. And I asked them, so how

399
00:24:47,380 --> 00:24:50,260
was this and that experience? Yes. And I said, so what did you drink with

400
00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:53,660
it? Well, we had maybe one cocktail or water.

401
00:24:53,980 --> 00:24:57,500
And I said, how is that possible? Well, we know everything about

402
00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:01,100
wine because we grew up in this family, but why should we be ripped off?

403
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,760
I mean, imagine how sad that is. So I don't think that there

404
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,800
is this overwhelming trend against alcohol

405
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,840
seen as being the worst, and it's

406
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,480
damaging, which of course, if you over access it, do it, it is.

407
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,600
But I think it's a question of budget and

408
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,600
fairness. I think that has a lot to do with it. And

409
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,080
there's a. Actually, what's interesting, that more wine was sold in the US

410
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,680
Last year than the year before. So whatever the consumption issues are

411
00:25:31,780 --> 00:25:34,820
doesn't seem to be real when it comes out to the numbers. But then I

412
00:25:34,820 --> 00:25:38,100
talked to a restaurant the other day, a restaurateur, and he had hired a new

413
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:41,700
somme, thinking that was his problem. You'll laugh at this because

414
00:25:41,860 --> 00:25:45,620
his. His bottle sales are off 40%. And, you know, that's

415
00:25:45,620 --> 00:25:49,340
substantial. Wow. You know, tasting room traffic. For instance, I was

416
00:25:49,340 --> 00:25:53,140
with, you know, a very famous wine winery last week, and

417
00:25:53,140 --> 00:25:56,940
she was saying that their. Their tasting room Traffic is off 20 or 30%,

418
00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:00,460
which is a very important part of their business. But regardless, this restaurant. So this

419
00:26:00,460 --> 00:26:04,200
guy was changing the psalm because the sales were. I

420
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,000
said, what about your waiters and your servers? What do they do? Because

421
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,800
they don't know. Well, maybe that's part of the problem, is

422
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,560
that you're not training the waiter staff to understand what they

423
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,239
have in front of them. Absolutely. And one of the things that happens now, and

424
00:26:19,239 --> 00:26:22,880
it drives me crazy, maybe you, too, is they talk about the

425
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,720
changing the language of wine. My father had his things. My God,

426
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,640
I'm getting that on social media. Big thing. I don't understand what that

427
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,410
means. Yeah, yeah. Because my dad's language, he would cringe at

428
00:26:34,410 --> 00:26:37,050
some of the stuff I would say, but that just means he's in a different

429
00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:40,810
generation. And I'll cringe at what my kids say. And the

430
00:26:40,810 --> 00:26:44,130
evidence of that is yesterday at this restaurant, the one I was telling you about,

431
00:26:44,450 --> 00:26:47,809
they organized the wine list by the following

432
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:51,610
categories. Not Cabernet Pinot Noir. It was big

433
00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:55,170
and vivacious, light and airy. And so my wife loves

434
00:26:55,170 --> 00:26:59,010
Bordeaux varietals, whether it's Napa or Bordeaux, Me too. And so

435
00:27:00,020 --> 00:27:03,540
I had to go to each section to see where they had put those wines.

436
00:27:03,860 --> 00:27:06,980
Yeah. And I thought, that doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. But

437
00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:10,420
I also have to say that there's a big discussion calling a wine

438
00:27:10,420 --> 00:27:14,060
feminine or masculine. Oh, no. And I never use

439
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:17,820
those terms to express my palette or to talk

440
00:27:17,820 --> 00:27:21,460
about wine, but I think it's going. It's getting too far. You know, if

441
00:27:21,460 --> 00:27:24,660
some countries, if some people, whatever, want to express

442
00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:28,540
the style of a wine in a certain way, so be it. I think we

443
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:32,240
don't need to go too far. Wine should not be

444
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,600
discriminated. Do you think that this generation is then going to understand.

445
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,880
Well, you just explained that you really don't think that's the problem. So that's.

446
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,080
I mean, that's my personal. That's a good thing. You see it every day. And

447
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,680
it's an important. Yeah, I have three millennials

448
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,280
and their millennial husbands, and

449
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,360
they very much appreciate a good glass of wine. And maybe it's because of

450
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,130
our culture at home. Yes. It's just part of our culture. Absolutely. But

451
00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:04,050
I can't point to them as evidence as to whether the

452
00:28:04,050 --> 00:28:06,890
messaging is out there or not. So you're on social, which,

453
00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:11,050
you know, there's. Do you remember. Do you. Do you ever know the TV show

454
00:28:11,050 --> 00:28:14,650
Bewitched? It was a true. Okay, sure. And in those

455
00:28:14,650 --> 00:28:18,490
days. Right. Larry Tate, the advertising guy, you go in, you get the pitch,

456
00:28:18,490 --> 00:28:21,290
they have the easel, they do the drawings, they come up with a slogan, and

457
00:28:21,290 --> 00:28:24,590
then that was. That was marketing. Yes. You have no place else to go

458
00:28:24,910 --> 00:28:28,430
today. I mean, you're probably in. In the main trade mags.

459
00:28:28,910 --> 00:28:32,550
Trying to sell your wares. But really social is where you have to

460
00:28:32,550 --> 00:28:35,910
be. You have to be. You have to be no matter what you do, no

461
00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:39,710
matter what you try to communicate, what you try to sell, and

462
00:28:39,710 --> 00:28:43,510
especially if you want to find a niche, how to communicate with

463
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:47,310
the next generation, which is so important because. There'S a new brand out.

464
00:28:47,790 --> 00:28:51,140
I'm going to say it. It's called Whiny Baby, and she's coming on the show

465
00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:54,380
in the next couple weeks. And I want to push a little bit as to

466
00:28:54,380 --> 00:28:58,140
what. And this is a Gen Z thing. Now, your grandfather and

467
00:28:58,140 --> 00:29:01,940
your father. My dad in his wine shop, we used to sell

468
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,859
this piece of tape that you'd put over the

469
00:29:05,859 --> 00:29:09,420
label, and that's when people sort of wanted to collect labels and put it in

470
00:29:09,420 --> 00:29:12,820
their seller book. And. Yes, I remember those things. All those things. Right? Yeah. Especially

471
00:29:12,820 --> 00:29:16,100
with Chateau Mouton. Yeah, yeah, of course with the

472
00:29:16,180 --> 00:29:19,820
labels. But this Whiny Baby is very interesting.

473
00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:23,020
This is a Gen Z brand. The whole point of it is

474
00:29:23,420 --> 00:29:27,060
you can write on the label who you drank this with and when you

475
00:29:27,060 --> 00:29:30,740
drank it and what occasion, and you peel that off. And I thought,

476
00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:34,380
well, that's not new. You know, your father was doing it. My father was doing

477
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:37,900
it. But you know what? I think any kind of innovation that goes into our

478
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:41,580
beautiful industry helps. And if

479
00:29:41,580 --> 00:29:45,300
she starts communicating this in the proper way, maybe others will pick up

480
00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:49,110
on this trend. I wish for it because it would be so sad to

481
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:53,230
imagine go into a restaurant trying to socialize and

482
00:29:53,230 --> 00:29:56,310
not have a glass of wine in your hands, which.

483
00:29:57,270 --> 00:30:00,910
Yeah, I mean, everybody. Wine speaks to people differently,

484
00:30:00,910 --> 00:30:04,470
but it calms me down, you know, it makes me relaxed, and that's what I

485
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:07,950
need after a busy day. I mean, I'm not doing home office. I've never done

486
00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:11,710
it. I'm too busy. My job doesn't allow it. So I

487
00:30:11,710 --> 00:30:14,980
need to unwind, and I like to do this over a glass of wine. Fine.

488
00:30:15,060 --> 00:30:18,340
It's very hard to do, by the way, just so you know, because I. I

489
00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:22,180
transitioning out of. I have an office still, too.

490
00:30:22,180 --> 00:30:26,020
I have a studio in an office, and I have to go there. I can't

491
00:30:26,020 --> 00:30:28,820
sit at the house. No, I couldn't. Even though I have all the horsepower there

492
00:30:28,820 --> 00:30:32,020
that I need, I can't do it now. My daughter who works for Apple,

493
00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:36,260
during COVID she was. She came out of the retail world of Apple,

494
00:30:36,260 --> 00:30:40,100
and she was interviewing for

495
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:43,300
a job that was solely from the house. Whose house? My house.

496
00:30:44,020 --> 00:30:46,860
She would leave her house to come to my house to be. Make that our

497
00:30:46,860 --> 00:30:50,340
house became her office. I thought, wait a minute, didn't you move out

498
00:30:50,660 --> 00:30:53,860
a few years ago? So what do you.

499
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:59,419
You're. You're relentless on social, and you're traveling the world. You're

500
00:30:59,419 --> 00:31:02,740
taking your kids to Aspen. You're showing them the world this way, which is great.

501
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:07,100
Well, it's not only Aspen. We started the US Tour in Denver a couple days

502
00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:10,780
ago. We. We moved from Denver up. Up to. Through

503
00:31:10,780 --> 00:31:14,420
the Independence Pass. I mean, I'm a European, and I've done it

504
00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:17,620
already five times. I don't know how many Americans have been up to an Independence

505
00:31:17,620 --> 00:31:21,380
Pass, which is very impressive. I wanted to show that to my kids. Us

506
00:31:21,380 --> 00:31:24,820
coming from the mountains of Austria, we have been to Aspen. We did fly

507
00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:28,540
fishing. We went to the Smuggler Mine. We had had so many activities.

508
00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:31,620
Wow. Aspen in the summer, to me is even better than in the winter, because

509
00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:35,460
snow I got at home myself. Yeah, that's right. And now we're in la. We're

510
00:31:35,460 --> 00:31:38,990
here for a couple of days, then we're moving up to Napa Valley. Kids are

511
00:31:38,990 --> 00:31:42,390
for the second time in Napa. They love it up there. And then we end

512
00:31:42,390 --> 00:31:46,110
up in San Francisco. And they love to go in San Francisco through,

513
00:31:46,270 --> 00:31:50,070
obviously, what we tourists do. We're going for the second time to

514
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:53,230
Alcatraz, really, before it's turned back to prison.

515
00:31:53,470 --> 00:31:57,070
Hopefully it doesn't. And of course, this is, for me, culture.

516
00:31:57,070 --> 00:32:00,750
It's culture for them. And I like them to explore because that's

517
00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:04,430
exactly what my parents did with me in the 1980s. Obviously, the world

518
00:32:04,430 --> 00:32:07,960
was very different then, but imagine what they're going to tell their

519
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,680
kids. Yeah, right. So that's what it's all about, storytelling. It's the

520
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,840
new world. And I have this conversation quite frequently

521
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,280
as an American. I'm a Francophile. I learned

522
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,560
French from my father because he spoke French, and I want to speak French with

523
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,240
him. And then I'm reading a book now on the last Empress

524
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,040
of France, Eugenie, you know, and

525
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,400
I'm enamored by this history. Josephine Baker. I mean, I'm enamored by

526
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,130
these things. And I find it fascinating because I'm looking at the old

527
00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:41,450
world going, wow, how structured, how interesting. This

528
00:32:41,450 --> 00:32:45,130
Appalachian control. A. And there's, you know, there's protection of the butter,

529
00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:48,850
protection of the wine, protection

530
00:32:48,850 --> 00:32:52,410
of cheese. But America's a new world. I mean,

531
00:32:52,410 --> 00:32:56,050
you've. It's. And we love it. I tell you, it's still the land of opportunity,

532
00:32:56,050 --> 00:32:59,490
especially for my brand. We have so much room to grow.

533
00:32:59,730 --> 00:33:03,530
And I lived in America for 15 years. I

534
00:33:03,530 --> 00:33:07,210
got the opportunity to build a company here, and wow, I didn't know

535
00:33:07,210 --> 00:33:10,350
that. And I think we're the only brand that is from tea to tea, which

536
00:33:10,350 --> 00:33:14,030
means from Tiffany's to Target. So, you know, that's

537
00:33:14,030 --> 00:33:17,710
part of this conversation. That's a big. A big achievement because

538
00:33:17,790 --> 00:33:21,430
everybody still wants, in my eyes, to

539
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:25,150
enjoy wine at the best. And wherever wine is being sold, Riedel is not allowed

540
00:33:25,150 --> 00:33:28,950
to be missed. Did you. Was that your doing or your father's

541
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:32,510
doing that Riedel became part of the luxury

542
00:33:32,510 --> 00:33:36,270
world? I mean, it seems to me that it wasn't founded on a luxury product.

543
00:33:36,270 --> 00:33:39,890
It was founded on glassware. But, well, I think everything that is not really necessary

544
00:33:39,890 --> 00:33:43,610
to survive is part of luxury. Good. Let's put it this way. So glass

545
00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:47,050
always is seen as luxury. The

546
00:33:47,050 --> 00:33:50,770
origins of Riedel were in the jewelry, glass jewelry business, coming out of

547
00:33:50,770 --> 00:33:54,490
Bohemia in the chandelier and light business. And

548
00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:57,530
so it slowly ventured into wine and glass.

549
00:33:58,090 --> 00:34:01,810
And yeah, when we talk about the average price of a bottle of wine

550
00:34:01,810 --> 00:34:05,210
in restaurants, you can still relate to it as a luxury. And, yes,

551
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,720
that's why we, I believe, are part of this kind of industry. You know,

552
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,560
I just thought of an experience, and

553
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,920
I think glassware ties into this. Not only does

554
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,120
wine, when you go to Italy, you go to France or you go to Austria,

555
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,120
and you have that glass of wine that turns your head. And every time you

556
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,720
get that wine, it's the reason why people join wine clubs is

557
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:32,480
that they went to a winery and they now get that box and

558
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,240
they go back to that day. And I just realized I have that same

559
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:40,019
experience with glassware. I don't think. I don't think there's rle,

560
00:34:40,019 --> 00:34:43,139
but we went to an auction in Paris, and I bought

561
00:34:43,219 --> 00:34:46,979
martini glasses from George Sank, the Four Seasons Hotel

562
00:34:47,139 --> 00:34:50,939
at an auction. And I have to tell you, every time I pull that out

563
00:34:50,939 --> 00:34:54,099
and I make a martini, it's a reflection.

564
00:34:54,899 --> 00:34:57,779
It changes your mood. Yes. Like you were saying.

565
00:34:58,499 --> 00:35:02,099
Yeah, it's really special. And I think the

566
00:35:02,099 --> 00:35:05,880
luxury version of the luxury aspect of a

567
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,600
fine glassware, of a real glassware has that same

568
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,440
feeling, has that same sort of, you know, I'm not. Not I've

569
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,000
arrived, but I feel like I'm something special by doing

570
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,559
this. Well, it. I think it's the beverage in the glass that makes you feel

571
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:24,240
like that. Well, that's true. But of course, real, we produce machine made, we produce

572
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,920
handmade, mouth blown. So we are one of the last

573
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,160
unicorns out there that really is capable of shaping

574
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:34,980
glass the way it can be shaped by machine or

575
00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:38,700
by hand. And sadly, this kind of craft

576
00:35:38,860 --> 00:35:42,580
of handmade is dying because people don't want to

577
00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:46,420
work in a factory environment anymore. And if that is the case, then

578
00:35:46,420 --> 00:35:49,980
say goodbye to handmade products, not only in the world of fine glass,

579
00:35:50,380 --> 00:35:54,060
but in general. So that's, that's. I have to be the ambassador

580
00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:58,300
of communicating also the importance of crystal, of glass,

581
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:02,100
the element, the product not only related to wine. And

582
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:05,260
this is also where I use social media for that. I mean, what are you

583
00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:08,760
fighting daily when you wake up? Your. Your goal is to

584
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,640
continue to tell. The world to stay alive, is to stay alive, keep. Keep

585
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,840
my kids motivated. Going to school. And of course,

586
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,560
since I've lived in America for such a long time and I've had my group,

587
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,080
my crew of close to 100 employees, the most important

588
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,120
thing as an entrepreneur, if you can't do it on your own, is to motivate

589
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,800
your people. Yeah. And. And that's my rule number one. I

590
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,360
always want to come with a smile on my face, on my lips, into

591
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,860
the matter, how tough the times are. I need to be the one who

592
00:36:39,860 --> 00:36:42,980
motivates the group. They have to be inspired by your story.

593
00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:47,700
They are. And I appreciate the time today to hear the story.

594
00:36:47,780 --> 00:36:50,460
Appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I look forward to the seminar and I

595
00:36:50,460 --> 00:36:54,180
look forward to seeing you out on social. Yes. Appreciate

596
00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:57,740
it. It's very nice. Thank you. And by the way, if anybody has any questions,

597
00:36:57,740 --> 00:37:01,580
please look me up on maxireedle. R I E D E

598
00:37:01,580 --> 00:37:05,370
L I'm the one who answers all the questions personally on my Instagram,

599
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,800
which is close to now 600,000 followers. I guess

600
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,600
most of the people are food and wine lovers, and I love to chat and

601
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,120
I love to be inspired. Wow. That's phenomenal. Appreciate it.

602
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,000
I'm going to test that. Good. Okay. Cheers. Thank you for coming. Cheers. Take

603
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:21,280
care.