From Ribera del Duero to Tokaj: The Global Journey of Vega Sicilia With Pablo Alvarez

1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,680
I remember one man who works in mega Sicilia during

2
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,880
45 years and he told me,

3
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,560
I don't know what is, but here happens something.

4
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,720
Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine

5
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,640
Talks with Paul Kay.

6
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,240
Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are at an away

7
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,040
game today. We are at the beautiful Waldorf Astoria

8
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,790
Hotel in Beverly Hills. And I want to tell a

9
00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:32,030
quick story to the, to the listeners because

10
00:00:33,310 --> 00:00:37,110
this nostalgic for me in that I study French

11
00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:40,110
and my dad speak French and we do things in French together.

12
00:00:40,750 --> 00:00:44,510
And this was the site of a restaurant in the 50s called Escoffier.

13
00:00:44,910 --> 00:00:48,590
And Auguste Scoffier was the father of French

14
00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:51,750
cuisine. And they opened a restaurant in

15
00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:55,560
1955 in his honor. And it lasted, I think, till the

16
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,520
90s. It was a very famous place. So I'm very happy to be here. But

17
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,760
we're here with Pablo Alvarez,

18
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,520
son of the great David Alvarez of Vegas

19
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,160
Cecilia Winery. And this is one of the most famous Spanish wines and

20
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,480
wineries that has expanded into other parts of the world. We're going to talk about

21
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,240
that. So welcome. Pablo, I appreciate you being in here and

22
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,030
I know you're traveling around this this week. Yes, thank you very

23
00:01:22,030 --> 00:01:25,830
much. How many days does this trip going to take and what

24
00:01:25,830 --> 00:01:29,390
have you been doing? Well, this trip is very

25
00:01:29,390 --> 00:01:32,670
short. It's only just one week. I

26
00:01:33,310 --> 00:01:36,670
travel from Madrid to Las Vegas. I stay

27
00:01:37,150 --> 00:01:40,670
two days and a half in Las Vegas, another two days and a half in,

28
00:01:41,230 --> 00:01:44,830
in la and I am coming back to Spain again. You know, it's that

29
00:01:44,990 --> 00:01:47,870
I don't know if people understand generally because

30
00:01:49,430 --> 00:01:52,990
the wine business is a difficult business and you have to do these

31
00:01:52,990 --> 00:01:56,790
trips to get the word out on the winery. Excuse me. I'm

32
00:01:56,790 --> 00:02:00,510
very fortunate to have a friend in Mike Miller and inviting us

33
00:02:00,510 --> 00:02:04,150
to do this together. But, you know, that's, you know, two and a half days.

34
00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:07,870
You're constantly talking about the winery. You're hosting

35
00:02:07,870 --> 00:02:11,670
dinners, you're at dinners, you're at lunches. It's not good for

36
00:02:11,670 --> 00:02:15,350
the waistline you get. Nope. At all. I am

37
00:02:16,580 --> 00:02:19,940
50% of my life in diet and 50%. Really?

38
00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:24,500
That much travel? Yeah, but, well, the wine, the

39
00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:27,860
wine is a very different business. No, it's very special because

40
00:02:28,980 --> 00:02:32,340
I think there are not many business where the people

41
00:02:32,340 --> 00:02:35,860
wants to know who is behind the wine. That's true.

42
00:02:36,340 --> 00:02:39,780
So this is important then. I am traveling

43
00:02:40,580 --> 00:02:44,280
last year, 135 days now, and

44
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,120
this year, I suppose is more or less the same. No. So

45
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,840
that's amazing. It's necessary I'm traveling for all the world and the people

46
00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:55,640
wants to see me. No, well, of course we want to see you.

47
00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,480
Yeah, you look at, look at you. Beautiful. So

48
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,040
it's very special business, no? So, you know, it's interesting.

49
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,880
I'm not sure what direction, because I have so many questions and so many things

50
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,320
to talk about. But let's talk about Spanish wine, since you're Traveling the world

51
00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:14,740
135 days a year doing this, and I read

52
00:03:14,740 --> 00:03:18,380
in your biography and in your. Your literature that, you know, Spanish wine

53
00:03:18,380 --> 00:03:22,140
wasn't always in the forefront of the wine world, but it's certainly

54
00:03:22,140 --> 00:03:25,940
gaining traction of late. And you see floor stacks in some

55
00:03:25,940 --> 00:03:29,660
nice markets now with all Spanish, you know, relationships. And

56
00:03:29,660 --> 00:03:33,380
a lot of the older brands that are less expensive or not less expensive,

57
00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:37,140
less pedigreed are still around. But there seems to be some

58
00:03:37,140 --> 00:03:40,980
very, very fine Spanish wines coming to. To the marketplace.

59
00:03:40,980 --> 00:03:44,640
Y. Of course, Spain is

60
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,200
the second, the third wine producer in the world,

61
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,560
no, But I don't know why

62
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,560
the Spanish don't move so much. I think it's necessary to move. I think

63
00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,560
it's a lifestyle pace. So

64
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,680
I think that the consumer don't know really

65
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,080
well the Spanish wine. And the Spanish

66
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,480
produce very, very good wines. Very good wines. Excellent wines.

67
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,400
In fact, I had a master sommelier

68
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,120
here. His name was Emmanuel Kamigi. We did a wonderful podcast

69
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,840
with me, and he is one of the few winemaking master psalms, and

70
00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:25,120
he's in Purat making, making wines.

71
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,360
And he's, you know, he understands it's a difficult business. You have to travel,

72
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,040
you have to do these things. So Vegas Cecilia is

73
00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,550
in the Rivera D, which is below the Pyrenees

74
00:04:37,270 --> 00:04:40,790
by center of Spain. South of the Pyrenees is in the

75
00:04:40,790 --> 00:04:44,470
northwest from Madrid,

76
00:04:45,830 --> 00:04:49,230
and from the Pyrenees is from

77
00:04:49,230 --> 00:04:52,790
Priorad, for example. We are 700 kilometers. It's very far

78
00:04:52,790 --> 00:04:56,590
away, very far. We are in the Douro River. The Douro

79
00:04:56,590 --> 00:05:00,230
river. Who. The main part of the Douro river is in

80
00:05:00,230 --> 00:05:04,060
Spain, but Finnish in Portugal. In Portugal. So it cuts east

81
00:05:04,060 --> 00:05:07,820
to west or west to east. East to west is

82
00:05:07,820 --> 00:05:11,540
crossing the Dodo river and we are the

83
00:05:11,540 --> 00:05:14,980
Douro cross Vegas, Itilia and cross. Another two

84
00:05:14,980 --> 00:05:18,820
wineries that we have one in Toro region and another

85
00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:22,660
one in Rivera del Duro Leon. So the

86
00:05:22,660 --> 00:05:26,500
three wineries are crossed by the Douro River. So that's a.

87
00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:30,990
I've just learned this. Okay, so I'll be honest that my, my

88
00:05:30,990 --> 00:05:34,830
Spanish wine appellation, understanding of the terroir

89
00:05:34,830 --> 00:05:38,630
and understanding of what's made there is. It's elementary. Yes.

90
00:05:38,630 --> 00:05:42,230
You know, Rioja, Ribeira de Douro. But I've learned about the river

91
00:05:42,310 --> 00:05:46,150
and how it makes some changes direction in some parts of the Ribeiro

92
00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:49,950
de Douro. And the wines that we've tasted from there have been very fine

93
00:05:49,950 --> 00:05:53,550
and very complex. So what is it about the terroir? And what does the

94
00:05:53,550 --> 00:05:57,390
river bring? Is this fertile soil. What are we getting from the river that

95
00:05:57,390 --> 00:06:01,060
makes it so special? Well, in Vegas.

96
00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:03,660
Italia. Vegas Ithelia is a big property of

97
00:06:04,380 --> 00:06:06,940
1,000 hectares that I think is

98
00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:10,060
2,500 acres. Yes.

99
00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:15,780
But we only can have 200 hectares of

100
00:06:15,780 --> 00:06:18,620
vineyard because there are many kinds of soils.

101
00:06:20,220 --> 00:06:24,020
Rivera del Duro is a ballet that was made by

102
00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:27,800
the Douro river during million of years. So it's

103
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,480
a riverbed. Yes. And then that produce

104
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,240
many, many different type of soils. And not

105
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,680
all the soils are great for produce a great

106
00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,360
grape. So in Vega we only

107
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,440
can, if we want to produce a great wine, we only can use

108
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,640
200 hectares of all the surface

109
00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:53,800
that we have of all the vineyards. So there are 19 different

110
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,150
type of soils. And.

111
00:06:58,670 --> 00:07:02,350
But curiously, the better

112
00:07:02,430 --> 00:07:06,030
soils, the best terroir is the

113
00:07:06,030 --> 00:07:09,390
one has a lot of chalk. Yes.

114
00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:12,590
That we are in close to the limit.

115
00:07:13,310 --> 00:07:16,110
So that's sort of a non alkaline

116
00:07:16,670 --> 00:07:20,110
soil. You look, the soil is

117
00:07:20,270 --> 00:07:23,770
white. Is white? I don't know. So

118
00:07:23,850 --> 00:07:27,210
for me, I want to hear your definition of terroir.

119
00:07:27,690 --> 00:07:31,530
What do you attribute to the overall

120
00:07:31,530 --> 00:07:35,010
value of a wine's character? What part of the

121
00:07:35,010 --> 00:07:38,610
terroir would you consider? Obviously it's a soil, but sort of just a

122
00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:42,410
broad definition. It's not only the soil is

123
00:07:42,410 --> 00:07:46,010
the soil is the varieties, the clone

124
00:07:46,330 --> 00:07:50,180
is the climate all together is that terroir.

125
00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:53,780
I've been wanting to throw into that definition

126
00:07:55,220 --> 00:07:58,900
the winemakers or the owner's opinion of things, the

127
00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:02,700
influence that the family has. Because it's

128
00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:06,500
a holistic environment. Right. Everything that happens, happens for

129
00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:10,260
the Alvarez family, and everybody has a part in it. And I think that's part

130
00:08:10,260 --> 00:08:13,940
of the terroir too. I don't think it's just the biological or

131
00:08:13,940 --> 00:08:17,720
mechanical parts of winemaking. I think it's a whole philosophical thing as

132
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,960
well. Do you agree with that or you don't have to agree with it, it's

133
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,840
okay. But no, of course, that is not only

134
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,360
that. No, it's all together. And

135
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,360
the work that you are making in the vineyard

136
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,960
during many, many years. But

137
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,840
really we are working with the natural. We can make all

138
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,560
the interpretation that we want. But

139
00:08:43,020 --> 00:08:46,580
why? I remember one man who works in

140
00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:50,340
mega civilia during 45 years. And he

141
00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:53,740
told me, I don't know what is, but here

142
00:08:53,740 --> 00:08:57,420
happens something. Yes, he

143
00:08:57,420 --> 00:09:01,220
doesn't know. That's the terroir. Yes, right. Is it

144
00:09:01,220 --> 00:09:04,940
natural? That is very. After you see, you can

145
00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:08,770
explain more or less. But really the

146
00:09:08,770 --> 00:09:12,210
true we don't know is something different. No.

147
00:09:12,450 --> 00:09:15,810
And this is the big thing in the wine,

148
00:09:16,290 --> 00:09:19,850
in the wine producer, not that you drink one

149
00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:23,690
wine from Burgundy and has one characteristics, although

150
00:09:23,690 --> 00:09:27,370
another one. This is the big thing in the wine. No, you're

151
00:09:27,370 --> 00:09:30,450
right. And I try to profess this and

152
00:09:31,650 --> 00:09:34,130
my listeners might be tired of hearing it, because

153
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,000
there's something special about wine being made

154
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,600
from grapes that accept the

155
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,280
soil, that accept the philosophy, that accept the terroir.

156
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,640
And it's a representation of where you come from, where you

157
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,400
live, what was being done then. And when I was

158
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:59,040
reading about your biography, it was talking about 1915, when

159
00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,360
demand for bulk wine subsided. And I find that

160
00:10:03,770 --> 00:10:07,450
very interesting and cyclical because it looks like the

161
00:10:07,450 --> 00:10:11,290
family back then, in 1915, who owned it, moved into more

162
00:10:12,730 --> 00:10:16,490
elegant wines, into family consumed wines. And I

163
00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:20,090
thought that was a really interesting comment, because you couldn't buy the

164
00:10:20,090 --> 00:10:23,410
wines, right? You could only get them from the family if they gave them to

165
00:10:23,410 --> 00:10:26,490
you. And that meant something that, that

166
00:10:26,890 --> 00:10:30,690
establishes for me the idea that this is between you and

167
00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:34,410
me, between my friends, between my family, that the value of this

168
00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:36,710
wine and what it for us when we drink it

169
00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:41,510
and the expression that we get from the soil and the

170
00:10:41,510 --> 00:10:44,470
winemaking is what draws us to the product.

171
00:10:45,110 --> 00:10:47,910
Right. And so. But I was interested because

172
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:52,630
this cycle, this bulk wine cycle is back. Now,

173
00:10:54,070 --> 00:10:57,830
I can tell you in my side now, you're in a

174
00:10:57,990 --> 00:11:01,590
nice position with the way you have your estate and your wineries. But

175
00:11:02,140 --> 00:11:05,740
the consumer in America is barraged with bulk,

176
00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:09,740
bad wine. Yeah, right. Groupon,

177
00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:13,620
$3 a bottle. Yeah, right. What are you Gonna get for

178
00:11:13,620 --> 00:11:15,100
$3? They're bringing in

179
00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:20,940
€1 per liter juice from Europe.

180
00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:25,700
Is that any good? It's difficult

181
00:11:25,700 --> 00:11:29,340
to understand. No, but it's impossible. It's

182
00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:32,140
impossible. But in all the region,

183
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,920
even the more famous region, there are very expensive

184
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,680
wines, right? Medium price and very low price.

185
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,160
So you can find in, in Japan here now,

186
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,280
one bottle of Rioja by one euro.

187
00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:52,520
Yeah. Which is the. The in which you price start

188
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,480
this wine? No, I don't know. You don't know how to do that, right? I

189
00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,290
don't want to do it, but. Well, is. Well, the

190
00:12:00,290 --> 00:12:03,930
wine business, the 90% of the wine

191
00:12:03,930 --> 00:12:07,130
business is price. Yes. Only

192
00:12:07,610 --> 00:12:10,970
we move in the 10% only.

193
00:12:11,930 --> 00:12:15,650
Well, but you're here for a reason. You're here in America,

194
00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:19,370
you're traveling 135 days a year. Because the

195
00:12:19,370 --> 00:12:22,890
messaging of what you're taught, the story, the idea behind a

196
00:12:22,890 --> 00:12:26,630
quality made wine, a family made wine, the story behind the wine, I

197
00:12:26,630 --> 00:12:29,910
think is a very important part of today's

198
00:12:30,070 --> 00:12:33,910
consumption. Of course, because won't the consumer

199
00:12:33,910 --> 00:12:37,590
get tired of drinking €1 wines?

200
00:12:37,590 --> 00:12:41,390
I mean they're just. They're not. They don't have that expression. They can't have

201
00:12:41,390 --> 00:12:44,750
that. Right. Isn't it by rule. They can't have that

202
00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:48,550
expression because there's just no technique involved. There's no terroir, there's

203
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:52,270
no. Is that just the way it is? And every time is, I

204
00:12:52,270 --> 00:12:56,110
think is more difficult because every time it's produced more

205
00:12:56,110 --> 00:12:59,870
wines, more countries start to produce new

206
00:12:59,870 --> 00:13:03,710
wines. So for the consumer, it's impossible to

207
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:07,510
know what is happening in the wine. They don't. They just. All they see

208
00:13:07,510 --> 00:13:11,310
is what's on the shelf. It's impossible. So it's necessary

209
00:13:11,310 --> 00:13:15,030
to come to explain, to help to

210
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:18,870
them, to the consumers to know the wines that is

211
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:22,460
producing the world. And before was

212
00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:26,140
very clear. You drink one Bordeaux and

213
00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:30,140
you know that is. You know, now it's very

214
00:13:30,140 --> 00:13:33,740
complicated. Yes, because during many years,

215
00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:38,060
for example, Parker in United States, in the wine world. No.

216
00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:42,260
He decide a little bit which

217
00:13:42,260 --> 00:13:46,060
one must be the style of the wines. No, that's right. You're

218
00:13:46,060 --> 00:13:49,780
right. That's exactly right. Everybody was moving to in. In

219
00:13:49,780 --> 00:13:53,430
this point of view. No. So it's. Every time

220
00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:56,670
was more difficult to know from where is one wine is.

221
00:13:57,790 --> 00:14:01,630
And so today is more difficult and more complex to know

222
00:14:01,630 --> 00:14:05,390
the. What is happening in the wine. You know this. I'm glad

223
00:14:05,390 --> 00:14:09,190
you brought that up because there is this also an a

224
00:14:09,190 --> 00:14:12,990
more. There's more ratings, there's more

225
00:14:12,990 --> 00:14:16,830
people ratings. There's, you know, every. They're throwing ratings around like, you

226
00:14:16,830 --> 00:14:20,550
know, there's just 90, 92, 95, 89. And the consumer now

227
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:24,370
is. Is getting a little confused. And I hear this daily on what does

228
00:14:24,370 --> 00:14:28,210
that mean at the end? Well, I always

229
00:14:28,290 --> 00:14:31,490
say that the wine is to enjoy nothing more.

230
00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,650
And the people is listen to when

231
00:14:35,810 --> 00:14:39,570
somebody's speaking about the wines trying to understand.

232
00:14:40,770 --> 00:14:44,490
But at the end for me it's very easy. If the best

233
00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:48,330
wine for you is the one that you like nothing more.

234
00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:52,130
Why you prefer the fish or the beef? Well,

235
00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:55,890
is because you prefer nothing more. No. So in the wine is.

236
00:14:56,610 --> 00:15:00,170
Must be. Is necessary to. Don't introduce the

237
00:15:00,170 --> 00:15:03,810
wine in one very complicated system.

238
00:15:03,970 --> 00:15:07,690
It's very simple. No, it's more simple than we want

239
00:15:07,690 --> 00:15:11,450
to do. No, I think in the simplest form, it is what you like, drink

240
00:15:11,450 --> 00:15:15,210
what you want and drink. The number one question

241
00:15:15,210 --> 00:15:18,850
I get always particularly to a new wine drinker. Well,

242
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:22,610
isn't it all subjective? Isn't it all just a matter of taste? And

243
00:15:22,610 --> 00:15:26,230
I suppose in the end, that's true, but don't we want to start with

244
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:29,790
something that's correctly made, like, that's flawless, so to

245
00:15:29,790 --> 00:15:33,590
speak, and then. Okay, from there we decide. Now, the

246
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:37,230
other thing that's important, I think that we're going to stumble on, is that

247
00:15:37,230 --> 00:15:40,190
your tastes change. Yes, of course.

248
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:44,630
Of course. The taste change. So you might feel like Burgundy

249
00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:48,470
or Rioja or Ribeiro Duero, and then in

250
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:52,210
five years, like, my wife won't drink Syrah. Yeah.

251
00:15:52,290 --> 00:15:56,090
I hope one day she does, because I like. Yeah, but maybe in a few

252
00:15:56,090 --> 00:15:59,810
years. I am sure that if you are drinking wines

253
00:16:00,050 --> 00:16:03,850
20 years ago today, you don't like the same

254
00:16:03,850 --> 00:16:07,330
wines that you start to appreciate 20 years ago.

255
00:16:07,410 --> 00:16:10,930
Why? Because you have one evolution

256
00:16:10,930 --> 00:16:14,530
in your taste, in your knowing of the wines.

257
00:16:15,570 --> 00:16:18,770
So for some wines, maybe it's necessary to.

258
00:16:20,050 --> 00:16:23,650
I always say that the consume of

259
00:16:23,650 --> 00:16:27,410
wine is like a pyramid. Yeah, pyramid, right? That's the word. Yeah.

260
00:16:27,410 --> 00:16:31,010
So in the base is the more simple wines, but then little by

261
00:16:31,010 --> 00:16:34,850
little, a few people arrive to the top, right? Yes,

262
00:16:36,370 --> 00:16:40,210
but it's normal that in the wine, you know. So that's an interesting thought,

263
00:16:40,210 --> 00:16:43,090
the pyramid. We don't mean the top

264
00:16:43,810 --> 00:16:46,930
necessarily by price. Right. We need the top in sort of,

265
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:51,370
if, you know, not quality, complexity,

266
00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:55,890
part of its understanding what's going on. Like, Burgundy is a very complicated

267
00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:59,290
subject, and if you're interested in learning about it, you can learn about it. The

268
00:16:59,290 --> 00:17:02,090
books are out there. You can taste as much as you want. It's very expensive

269
00:17:02,090 --> 00:17:05,530
to taste Burgundy all the time. And

270
00:17:05,850 --> 00:17:09,130
I personally, today, and this is my 30th year of tasting,

271
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:12,650
probably 100,000 wines through my career,

272
00:17:13,370 --> 00:17:17,159
I'm fascinated by that region of the world. But now I'm

273
00:17:17,159 --> 00:17:20,839
becoming very interested in what you. The Ribera, Dora

274
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,599
particularly, and Spain in general, of what's happening. Because

275
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,639
I'm a Francophile, and now you just go over the Pyrenees, and all of a

276
00:17:27,639 --> 00:17:31,199
sudden now you've got a whole new set of things to learn and understand. I

277
00:17:31,199 --> 00:17:34,759
like to learn about it. I have friends that have wonderful

278
00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:38,439
wine cellars. They know what they like, they drink what they like. They're not interested

279
00:17:38,439 --> 00:17:41,439
in hearing about it from me. Right. They don't. They don't want to hear the

280
00:17:41,439 --> 00:17:44,999
details on this. So I want to ask you a question about something.

281
00:17:46,890 --> 00:17:50,570
I'm reading your biography. In 1864, according to the

282
00:17:50,570 --> 00:17:54,050
timeline. I forgot the gentleman's name, the winemaker

283
00:17:54,050 --> 00:17:57,810
brought French varietals to the region. I don't know if he

284
00:17:57,810 --> 00:18:00,730
brought to the region or just to the winery. Eloise,

285
00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:04,970
what's his name, the founder? Yeah. He brought

286
00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:08,890
the French varieties to Vegas Sicilia. So.

287
00:18:09,770 --> 00:18:13,490
And this is a very. It's not touchy, but it's a subject matter that in

288
00:18:13,490 --> 00:18:17,290
certain parts of the world would cause lots of controversy and

289
00:18:17,290 --> 00:18:21,050
discussion. I'll name one. Armenia, since I'm from Armenia. And they don't want to

290
00:18:21,050 --> 00:18:24,050
bring French varietals. They want to grow indigenous varietals.

291
00:18:24,530 --> 00:18:28,330
And. But this gentleman had this idea. Was

292
00:18:28,330 --> 00:18:32,049
it because he understood French varietals or just felt tempranillo

293
00:18:32,049 --> 00:18:35,330
and Garnacha were not the grapes they wanted to grow or what was the.

294
00:18:35,730 --> 00:18:39,330
I think that he was a rich man and

295
00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:41,970
he traveled in Europe. So he knows the.

296
00:18:43,070 --> 00:18:46,830
The wines in France. No. And obviously, France

297
00:18:47,710 --> 00:18:50,990
create the wine culture. Yes. So

298
00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:55,070
he decided to create a winery in one place where

299
00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:58,990
never exist before vineyards. And he brought

300
00:18:58,990 --> 00:19:02,590
everything. He brought many kinds of French

301
00:19:02,670 --> 00:19:06,510
varieties and the Spanish varieties, too.

302
00:19:06,510 --> 00:19:10,290
Obviously, at today, the main aspect.

303
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:14,050
Variety that is the Tempranillo Tintofino in

304
00:19:14,050 --> 00:19:17,650
Vega represent practically the 90% of the vineyards

305
00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:21,490
in that area. But we continue with Marlowe and Cabernet Sauvignon, for

306
00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:24,850
example, that this man was. Well,

307
00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:30,890
in 1876, he traveled to

308
00:19:30,890 --> 00:19:34,090
United States with his products. Yeah,

309
00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:39,490
I was in 1866 to travel from

310
00:19:39,490 --> 00:19:43,050
Spain. That's pretty. Excuse me. He. He.

311
00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:46,330
Is it. Was he the one that brought the brandy to Philadelphia? Yes.

312
00:19:48,010 --> 00:19:50,890
Universal Exposition of

313
00:19:51,130 --> 00:19:54,970
1876. That's amazing. Yes. It must

314
00:19:54,970 --> 00:19:58,650
be a very. I always say that must be a very special

315
00:19:58,650 --> 00:20:02,440
man to. To come in that moment and go to

316
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,200
Philadelphia, because you don't go to Philadelphia unless you have to. Yeah. But

317
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,600
celebrate the Exposition universe. Universal

318
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,360
exposition. Yes. In 1876, it. Was it a wine.

319
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,480
Was it a wine thing? No, no, I think that was a general

320
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:21,800
exposition. No, it's like.

321
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,960
Well, every time now, there are. The next. I think in

322
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,280
this year is in. In Dubai.

323
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,040
Oh, it is. Okay.

324
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,960
I was in Sevilla. Well, every two years or three years

325
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,600
is in one country. So we're still making brandy there or. No, no,

326
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,560
no, no. I never. I never saw. I never

327
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,280
taste. I never saw one bottle of Brandy. So I suppose

328
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,120
that was finished in the 819 century. So

329
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:56,860
are we going to be seeing super Spanish? Like, this

330
00:20:56,860 --> 00:21:00,500
is my little pet peeve. Right. So here we are in

331
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,940
Tuscany, and they're not allowed to call

332
00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:08,900
grapes like Cabernet Merlot other than the indigenous grapes.

333
00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:12,580
You weren't allowed to identify them by the region. So you couldn't call a

334
00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:16,340
Chianti if you put Cabernet in there, Whatever. So they

335
00:21:16,340 --> 00:21:20,060
decided to start planting the French varietals, and then they call them Super

336
00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:23,290
Tuscans and they charge us a lot of money. So are we going to see

337
00:21:23,290 --> 00:21:26,450
super Spanish? Are there already super Spanish out there? And we're going to see.

338
00:21:27,170 --> 00:21:30,210
No, no, there are no super Spanish.

339
00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:34,130
Are you blending, though, the Merlot and the Tempranillo and the things. Yes,

340
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:39,090
we produce basically two wines that is

341
00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:43,730
Balbuena and Unico, and we use the Merlot in Balbana

342
00:21:44,050 --> 00:21:47,690
and the Cabernet Sauvignon in the unique. Okay, so

343
00:21:47,690 --> 00:21:51,410
now you just touched on something. So you have the Ribera de Duero,

344
00:21:51,410 --> 00:21:55,030
but you have other properties and other brand lands throughout Spain.

345
00:21:55,030 --> 00:21:58,670
Correct. So, yes, you're in Rioja. I think in Rioja,

346
00:21:58,750 --> 00:22:02,550
in Toro region is another region that

347
00:22:02,550 --> 00:22:05,870
is a little bit more in the west,

348
00:22:06,270 --> 00:22:10,110
in the St. Laurent River. And

349
00:22:11,310 --> 00:22:14,710
in Rivera del Duero we have two Vegas, Sicilia and

350
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:17,750
Alion. Italy was founded in

351
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:21,320
1991, also relatively recent. Yes.

352
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,640
30 years next year. Toro

353
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,320
Pintia was founded in 2001,

354
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,000
Rioja in 2009. And

355
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,080
Tokayo, we start to work in Tokai in Hungary

356
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,120
in 1993 after finish the

357
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,720
communist period. So it's quite a. You're spread

358
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,320
out. That's no wonder you're traveling so much.

359
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,640
Uh, so with the. I want to stay on the French varietals just for

360
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,400
a little longer. So have they

361
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,440
over the years now adopted well to the terroir and the soil and

362
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,280
creating. You ever bottle them by themselves or do they always blend the wines

363
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,040
in? We. Well, our varieties, absolutely

364
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,680
adapted to the soil and the climate,

365
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:15,840
are very, very old clones that was in use in

366
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,050
the 19th century. Wow. So it's very interesting.

367
00:23:20,010 --> 00:23:21,850
Yeah. And even

368
00:23:24,170 --> 00:23:27,930
there are. We

369
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:31,450
have one very old parcel of 120

370
00:23:32,410 --> 00:23:35,450
years. Wow. Where we. We maintain

371
00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:38,090
27 different varieties.

372
00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:42,970
Really? 27 different. Yes, that

373
00:23:42,970 --> 00:23:46,560
was. We don't know why there are. But.

374
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,280
And we found very old clones of Cabernet, for

375
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,040
example, of Tempranillo too. That is very interesting,

376
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,800
because in Bega,

377
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,480
nobody thought about that. But for example,

378
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,520
Bega was founded in 1864

379
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,320
until 1927, during 70

380
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,530
years was the only one winery

381
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:16,010
that exists in all the region that today is Rivera del

382
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:19,730
Duero. Really? Yes. That is a long tenure. And why did that

383
00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:23,530
happen? It was alone and then nobody

384
00:24:23,530 --> 00:24:26,930
thought. But Vegas Italia make a muscle

385
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:30,250
selection. Why? Because. Well, they.

386
00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:33,530
They use their own vineyard that they have

387
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:37,290
to. To change to renovate the different

388
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:41,170
parcels or the new parcels. So nobody thought

389
00:24:41,170 --> 00:24:44,130
that was making one muscle circum. But they made.

390
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:47,970
Interesting. That's very interesting. Is the value.

391
00:24:48,050 --> 00:24:51,730
For me, the great value of Vega is our vineyard. Now

392
00:24:51,730 --> 00:24:55,210
we have one vineyard. Absolutely. And

393
00:24:55,210 --> 00:24:58,290
perfectly adapted to the taroar.

394
00:24:59,970 --> 00:25:03,570
I may have to come visit. I noticed in your brochure here there's some

395
00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:07,170
beautiful accommodations there for guests. So

396
00:25:07,170 --> 00:25:11,010
we'll have to come check that out. What happened to when I

397
00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:14,750
was working my dad's store 70s, you know, there was just a

398
00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:18,590
handful of Spanish wines, Venus Segura, I think there was Marquis de

399
00:25:18,590 --> 00:25:21,470
Rascal. These brands,

400
00:25:23,230 --> 00:25:26,910
I don't see them as often. They seem to be mainstream

401
00:25:26,910 --> 00:25:30,630
or they became mainstream for a long time, but they don't

402
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:34,030
seem to be around. Has the premium levels of

403
00:25:34,510 --> 00:25:38,270
wines like Feno Rivera, Dwar and other parts of Spain sort of taking

404
00:25:38,270 --> 00:25:41,810
over that. That style of wine that. Taking over those shelf

405
00:25:41,810 --> 00:25:45,530
spots from. From those big companies. They're still making tons of

406
00:25:45,530 --> 00:25:49,370
wine. And we're just. I just don't see it. I think that there are.

407
00:25:49,370 --> 00:25:53,090
In Rioja mainly, there are the more famous historically

408
00:25:53,170 --> 00:25:56,850
wineries in Spain. No? Well, if we don't speak about

409
00:25:57,250 --> 00:26:01,010
sherry region in the south. Yes, that is another

410
00:26:01,010 --> 00:26:04,690
world. No, but in Rioja there was very, very famous

411
00:26:04,850 --> 00:26:08,170
brands like Marquez de Riscalo, Marquez de

412
00:26:08,170 --> 00:26:10,210
Morita. Yes, Cune.

413
00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:16,210
The big brands. But I, I think that they

414
00:26:16,210 --> 00:26:19,850
change the philosophy of the company. Before was

415
00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:23,690
a small ones or medium. Today are

416
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:27,089
very, very good companies, but very big companies.

417
00:26:27,250 --> 00:26:29,730
So they are. They, they. They've.

418
00:26:31,010 --> 00:26:34,530
I featured them in the 80s. Yeah, late

419
00:26:34,530 --> 00:26:38,250
80s. And they were fine wines. But the later versions

420
00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:41,170
and I'm talking about now let's say early 2000s,

421
00:26:43,390 --> 00:26:46,190
you know, larger quantities. I understand that it's. Yes, but well,

422
00:26:47,790 --> 00:26:51,630
at the end in the wine there are different wine

423
00:26:51,630 --> 00:26:55,230
business. Right. So you can go for. We

424
00:26:55,230 --> 00:26:57,950
try to follow the. The quality and

425
00:26:59,310 --> 00:27:02,950
somebody tried to follow the quantity. That is. Is

426
00:27:02,950 --> 00:27:06,550
okay. No, sure, I understand. It's different philosophies of the same

427
00:27:06,550 --> 00:27:09,230
business. So we Fast forward to

428
00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:14,540
1950, 1982. Now I had a conversation with

429
00:27:14,780 --> 00:27:18,300
winemaker at Chateau

430
00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:21,580
Lafitte's Chilean property, Los Vascos.

431
00:27:22,060 --> 00:27:25,580
And his story, which was very interesting to me was he was a.

432
00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:30,060
An accountant working for one of the big accounting firms

433
00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:33,780
that had lots of presence in the United States. He had the option of

434
00:27:33,780 --> 00:27:37,390
coming to America and getting a job in Chicago. And

435
00:27:37,390 --> 00:27:40,990
instead he took up an audit of this little

436
00:27:40,990 --> 00:27:44,790
winery in Chile called Los Vascos. And he was assigned the

437
00:27:44,790 --> 00:27:48,550
job by the Lafitte family to go

438
00:27:48,550 --> 00:27:52,350
look at it. But as an employee of the accounting firm, fell in

439
00:27:52,350 --> 00:27:56,030
love with the business and now has been the general manager for

440
00:27:56,030 --> 00:27:59,790
many, many, many years. And I get that sort of get that story

441
00:27:59,790 --> 00:28:03,310
out of how the property and the winery became part of the

442
00:28:03,310 --> 00:28:06,870
Alvarez family. You weren't in the wine business before. The family was

443
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:10,290
not. No, no, we was not

444
00:28:11,330 --> 00:28:14,890
really the owner in that

445
00:28:14,890 --> 00:28:18,730
moment from Vegas Italia in the 80s, in the beginning of

446
00:28:18,730 --> 00:28:22,210
the 80s, he asked

447
00:28:22,610 --> 00:28:25,970
to ask to my father if we can find

448
00:28:26,370 --> 00:28:30,010
somebody who wants to buy Juega Sicilia. So he wants

449
00:28:30,010 --> 00:28:33,850
to sell the company. Why would he ask your father? Yes. Was your

450
00:28:33,850 --> 00:28:36,690
father in the real estate business? Yes. So we

451
00:28:37,580 --> 00:28:41,180
check outside from Spain, because in Spain

452
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:45,260
in that moment, I remember the 80, 81

453
00:28:45,340 --> 00:28:49,140
was a big. There was a big crisis, economical crisis

454
00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:52,860
in Spain. So we saw, we look

455
00:28:53,179 --> 00:28:55,820
outside from Spain and we found

456
00:28:56,780 --> 00:29:00,380
somebody in England and Switzerland who

457
00:29:00,380 --> 00:29:04,020
wants to buy the winery. Really? And the

458
00:29:04,020 --> 00:29:07,100
first meeting that

459
00:29:08,140 --> 00:29:11,900
my father has with the owner of Vegas Italia to

460
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:15,060
explain who was the people are

461
00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:18,700
interested in Tobias, he asked him,

462
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:23,300
ask him if. Why he

463
00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:26,140
don't sell to my father.

464
00:29:27,740 --> 00:29:31,340
This is the beginning of the history because we never

465
00:29:31,340 --> 00:29:34,930
stay in the wine business. But maybe because was

466
00:29:35,890 --> 00:29:39,530
Vegas Ithilia, the more prestigious winery in Spain.

467
00:29:39,530 --> 00:29:43,330
And then. Well, and after close to one

468
00:29:43,330 --> 00:29:46,770
year, they. They say okay, and

469
00:29:46,930 --> 00:29:50,610
they sold to us. So your. Your father's

470
00:29:50,850 --> 00:29:54,650
soliciting offers. Yes. For a winery which was how

471
00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:58,250
many. I mean, was it just one facility and one. One vineyard,

472
00:29:58,250 --> 00:30:01,480
effectively. How many hectares do you think did you have originally?

473
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,640
500 hectares in that. In that moment, yes, 100

474
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,320
hectares. Okay, so 220 acres. Yeah, it's pretty good size.

475
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,920
Yes. And he's like, gee, this looks

476
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,359
pretty interesting. Knowing nothing about wine,

477
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,240
but you knew the history of the winery and thought,

478
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,440
well, gee, maybe it's time for a career change. Is that what he was thinking

479
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,980
or what. I mean, this is a big jump going from, you know,

480
00:30:26,980 --> 00:30:30,820
commercial, let's say real estate, or what were you doing then? How old

481
00:30:30,820 --> 00:30:34,660
were you? Oh, well, I knew was

482
00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:37,660
a new business. Absolutely different. But yes,

483
00:30:38,140 --> 00:30:41,660
we, we was. My father was impressed by the

484
00:30:42,379 --> 00:30:45,740
quality and the prestige of the winery, you know.

485
00:30:46,220 --> 00:30:49,420
And he was thinking in

486
00:30:50,540 --> 00:30:53,340
a start in the quality product

487
00:30:54,220 --> 00:30:58,010
in the business. No. And he tried to

488
00:30:58,010 --> 00:31:01,650
make in that moment one very good hotel in

489
00:31:02,050 --> 00:31:04,690
one property that we have in the countryside.

490
00:31:05,730 --> 00:31:09,570
Always looking for the quality. Yes, always on quality. The wine

491
00:31:09,570 --> 00:31:13,050
was. And well, my

492
00:31:13,050 --> 00:31:16,690
father was a visionary. Visionary

493
00:31:16,690 --> 00:31:19,490
because. Visionary. Yes, that's right.

494
00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:24,620
Because in Spain was. Was

495
00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:28,780
close to start the culture in the wine. Yes,

496
00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:32,620
because before the wine was food, nothing more. Yeah, that

497
00:31:32,620 --> 00:31:35,900
was just part of the meal. Yes, it's part of the meal.

498
00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:40,300
And the people in Spain drink a lot of wine before, but

499
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:44,540
every day with water, with.

500
00:31:46,540 --> 00:31:50,370
Was there a reason why the original. The family at the time was. Wanted to

501
00:31:50,370 --> 00:31:53,570
get out of the wine business. Was it? Was it. I'm sure it was making

502
00:31:53,570 --> 00:31:57,010
money or maybe it was making some or none and very hard to do in

503
00:31:57,010 --> 00:32:00,690
this business. But they were just tired is that they just didn't want to do

504
00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:04,450
it anymore or moving on to something else. It

505
00:32:04,450 --> 00:32:08,130
just happened to be a great opportunity for your family. It was

506
00:32:08,210 --> 00:32:11,930
a good opportunity. And we had

507
00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:15,650
another business very big. But we want to

508
00:32:15,970 --> 00:32:19,560
start in another kind of business now. Are you working with your brothers?

509
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,560
Yes, well, I am today. I couldn't do that. And in the

510
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,000
beginning my father told me that you must occupy of the

511
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,320
wine. Yeah, okay. And then I start. I am

512
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,560
always say that I was very lucky because I

513
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,880
immediately. I was in love from my work. Yes, it's very

514
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,010
lucky. I think it's very important. And.

515
00:32:46,090 --> 00:32:49,810
And I am the responsible in my family of all

516
00:32:49,810 --> 00:32:52,730
the wineries but their families there though

517
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:56,890
not yet. We are now making the.

518
00:32:58,490 --> 00:33:02,250
The organization of the next generation in

519
00:33:02,250 --> 00:33:06,010
the family business. Not that sometimes it's not very easy, you know,

520
00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:09,850
it's. No, it's not easy. My brother called me yesterday

521
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:13,940
and my father's old, he's 91, but he's doing okay. And he says.

522
00:33:14,580 --> 00:33:18,420
He says to me, what do you talk about with dad

523
00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:22,220
now? My brother's older than me, he's 66. I said, well, I'm very

524
00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:25,820
fortunate because I worked with him in this industry for, you know, a long

525
00:33:25,820 --> 00:33:29,220
time. I. I worked in the liquor store in the 70s and then I bought

526
00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:32,980
it from him in 1988. And he's been a close associate

527
00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:36,700
of mine, so to speak, when it comes to wine conversation, discussion and the

528
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:40,160
passion. And for me, the passion wasn't immediate.

529
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,320
It was. I grew into the

530
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,360
idea of what wine should be and feels like and

531
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,760
brings to the table, so to speak. No pun intended in

532
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,520
your Life as a. As a product, you know, as a. As

533
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,360
a beverage. So I'm very fortunate, able to have

534
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,160
those conversations and share with him the passion

535
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,320
of wine. His passion is different. His.

536
00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:11,060
I just heard the story. I did a podcast with him recently, about an hour

537
00:34:11,060 --> 00:34:13,580
and a half, and he, he was telling me that

538
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:18,340
he only started it looking at wine, because when

539
00:34:18,340 --> 00:34:22,140
he bought his last pharmacy, because he had six pharmacies,

540
00:34:22,939 --> 00:34:26,460
he insisted that the gentleman sell the liquor store as well. And it was really

541
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:30,260
liquor. It was booze, ice and ice cream. Right. And he goes, I know

542
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:34,020
nothing about wine. So he started this. He's a very academic guy, being a

543
00:34:34,020 --> 00:34:37,180
pharmacist or a chemist. He started this active

544
00:34:37,610 --> 00:34:40,850
attempt to learn what he could about wine. And the stories are fascinating, what he

545
00:34:40,850 --> 00:34:44,610
learned and this. I'm, I feel very fortunate, I'm. I'm guessing you

546
00:34:44,610 --> 00:34:48,170
do, too, to have this relationship with

547
00:34:48,970 --> 00:34:51,530
not only the family business, but with wine,

548
00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:57,650
you're not sure. So I, you know, working

549
00:34:57,650 --> 00:35:01,050
in the family, I like, I couldn't work with my brother. Right.

550
00:35:01,450 --> 00:35:05,130
I don't think that would work. Yeah, you cannot work my

551
00:35:05,130 --> 00:35:08,610
sister either. Well, see, the problem in the, in the

552
00:35:08,610 --> 00:35:12,370
families, the families. Is a family business is difficult. No,

553
00:35:12,370 --> 00:35:15,970
it is. And it's not for the business. It's for the family.

554
00:35:16,050 --> 00:35:19,410
Yeah, exactly. In the family, there are many,

555
00:35:19,570 --> 00:35:22,850
many different personalities. No. And,

556
00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:27,410
well, you. Maybe you cannot work with your brother. Maybe

557
00:35:27,810 --> 00:35:31,450
with one brother of mine, I cannot work. Yeah, because we

558
00:35:31,450 --> 00:35:34,510
have different personalities. But. But

559
00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:38,990
it's not very easy to organize the relationship between

560
00:35:39,470 --> 00:35:42,190
all the members of the family. And mainly

561
00:35:43,070 --> 00:35:46,790
when you only have. You are four brothers or sister is

562
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:50,029
okay. When you are seven brothers and sister,

563
00:35:51,470 --> 00:35:54,670
15 nephews.

564
00:35:56,110 --> 00:35:59,720
So it's necessary to be very strict, very

565
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:03,560
straight. No. We're going to wrap this up

566
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,760
with this last little conversation, which may take a little bit of time because I'm

567
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,400
interested to know you're in Spain. You. You. You

568
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,080
bought the winery. The family bought the winery. They hadn't been in the wine business

569
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,400
before you decided to expand, and you've been

570
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,120
expanding into other parts of Spain, but you decided

571
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,880
to go into Hungary and work with the Tokai wines,

572
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,000
which are dessert wines by trade, and

573
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:32,600
they're very botrytis, meaning they've got noble

574
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,360
rotted dessert wines. But they're hungry. And so

575
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,280
let's just go back to the family thing. How did the family decide

576
00:36:40,999 --> 00:36:44,560
that this was going to be a good idea? Well, we

577
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,280
read the origin of all this is because we

578
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,160
read in the newspaper that the governor from Hungary

579
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:55,710
was trying to make the privatization of Tokay. Ah, this

580
00:36:55,710 --> 00:36:59,110
is the origin of everything. Then we.

581
00:37:00,550 --> 00:37:04,390
The government owned the vineyards then. Sorry, the government owned the vineyards at

582
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:07,830
that time? Yes. Well, this is a

583
00:37:07,830 --> 00:37:11,110
partnership complex system. No, but they control everything.

584
00:37:12,070 --> 00:37:15,750
So if they don't want. It's impossible. Yes. To make anything

585
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:18,880
into. You know, in. In Hungary. So

586
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,240
we went to speak with them.

587
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:24,240
We stay

588
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,920
speaking with the government more than one year because

589
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,240
for them it's difficult to understand that somebody from Spain

590
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,440
wants to go to court. They understand that,

591
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,960
for example France. Somebody from France go to. Yeah,

592
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,650
that makes sense. But Spain. Spain was. No, they don't understand.

593
00:37:46,770 --> 00:37:50,450
So. But after one year and a half we. We finish

594
00:37:50,530 --> 00:37:53,890
one agreement. In the beginning, in the

595
00:37:53,890 --> 00:37:57,250
society they have free obviously

596
00:37:57,330 --> 00:38:00,370
30% of the company today

597
00:38:01,170 --> 00:38:04,850
because we invest more money. And

598
00:38:04,850 --> 00:38:06,090
today they have the

599
00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:09,690
0.0001 of the

600
00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:13,170
companies. So started as a wholly owned by the government, you

601
00:38:13,170 --> 00:38:16,920
invested, you owned 30%. So it was a sort of a. What they call

602
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,560
a public private relationship then. Right. And over time now

603
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,280
it's become basically a private business. So now

604
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,080
in Tokai and. Well, from in the beginning we. Today

605
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,280
we have 120 hectares in Tokai.

606
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,080
Tokai is the one of the

607
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:37,840
greatest wine in the world.

608
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,400
Not many people know the region and the wines, but

609
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,070
are fantastic wines and uni

610
00:38:47,070 --> 00:38:50,630
wines and was the more famous wines during centuries. In

611
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:54,230
1718 Tokai is produced more than 400 years

612
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:58,070
ago. Wow. The people don't know this. And. And

613
00:38:58,150 --> 00:39:01,830
for example Sauternes produced 200 years ago Tokay

614
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:05,430
400 years. Well, you said Louis XIV thought it was the best wine ever. I'm

615
00:39:05,430 --> 00:39:08,630
sure this Barsack and Saturn guys weren't happy about that.

616
00:39:09,110 --> 00:39:12,790
It's just Louis the 14th told that Tokayo was the

617
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:16,230
king of the wines and the wine of the kings. That's amazing. So

618
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:20,290
I don't rem remember my European history that well, but I know that the Armenians

619
00:39:21,250 --> 00:39:24,970
that part of the world. The Soviets Left Armenia in 1988, I think

620
00:39:24,970 --> 00:39:27,970
it was. When did the Soviets leave Hungary?

621
00:39:28,770 --> 00:39:32,570
In 1990. So right

622
00:39:32,570 --> 00:39:35,530
around the same time, say at the same time. So when we were there in

623
00:39:35,530 --> 00:39:39,290
Budapest and I don't know how far that is from Tokai, but I was

624
00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:43,050
my. My impression of the. Of Budapest, which

625
00:39:43,050 --> 00:39:46,840
was a wonderful, wonderful city. And we

626
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,480
had a. We. I was joking. We had a beautiful hotel, but it wasn't the

627
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,200
Four Seasons. We were walking down the street,

628
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,040
we see a restaurant looked like it was really fun. We had unbelievable food in

629
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,959
there and it turns out it was a Michelin starred restaurant. I don't know one

630
00:39:59,959 --> 00:40:03,120
or two stars. And we had a bottle of angry Bickavur.

631
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,200
And it struck me as a town emerging with

632
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,120
trying to be a European town. Like it was a European cultured town. The

633
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,940
Soviets sort of stopped that put an end to it and

634
00:40:15,940 --> 00:40:19,540
now it's emerging again. Do you get that feeling when you're there? Well, you know,

635
00:40:19,540 --> 00:40:23,260
I think that Budapest was

636
00:40:25,180 --> 00:40:28,300
everything changed in mainly in the first

637
00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:33,340
World War. One World War. Why? Because

638
00:40:33,980 --> 00:40:37,340
in that moment was the empire Austro

639
00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:40,540
Ungaro. Empire.

640
00:40:41,020 --> 00:40:44,860
Empire, yeah. That was all

641
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:48,060
together Germany, Austria, Hungaria,

642
00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:51,500
Hungary. And so was very very important

643
00:40:52,860 --> 00:40:56,460
city. Not today it was for example the 1/3

644
00:40:56,780 --> 00:40:59,900
of Austria was from

645
00:41:00,380 --> 00:41:04,060
Hungary. Really in that moment. I didn't know that. That's interesting.

646
00:41:04,540 --> 00:41:08,300
That's the influence. That's the European influence. The capital

647
00:41:08,380 --> 00:41:12,050
of Budapest was a very important city in

648
00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:15,410
Europe in that moment. After the first World War

649
00:41:16,130 --> 00:41:19,810
start to change. And after when the. I think that

650
00:41:19,810 --> 00:41:23,170
the Soviet the communists come to Tokai to

651
00:41:23,650 --> 00:41:27,489
Hungary in 50 something. It's a very

652
00:41:27,489 --> 00:41:30,690
stoic city. There's a lot of pride there too that

653
00:41:31,570 --> 00:41:34,290
and was. I heard that was famous

654
00:41:35,490 --> 00:41:39,340
Budapest because was the. The best city

655
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:42,580
for tweet in all the Republic

656
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:46,380
Socialists. Yeah, that makes sense. Yes. Based on what

657
00:41:46,380 --> 00:41:50,140
I saw. It makes sense. So what is the general

658
00:41:50,140 --> 00:41:52,220
now that you mentioned this earlier about Tokai

659
00:41:53,660 --> 00:41:57,300
dessert. Let's just take the west coast, California for instance. Where.

660
00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:00,900
Where I grew up. You don't see a lot of dessert wine

661
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:03,910
being consumed. You don't see a lot of port. Though I do sell a lot

662
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:07,430
of port at Christmas time. It's not something that's

663
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:11,270
discussed at the dinner table. It's very rare. I go to somebody's house for dinner

664
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:14,830
and I get served a dessert wine or port. I like to do that. Or

665
00:42:14,830 --> 00:42:18,630
brandy. So what's the worldwide reception of Tokai right now?

666
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:22,310
Is it emerging? Is it growing? Yes, it's growing little by

667
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:26,150
little. Because. Well, if you say that

668
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:29,880
this wine is from Hungary. Nobody

669
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,680
identify hungry with wine. No this angry bickover. That's

670
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,280
all we know. Right. But when the people

671
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,520
taste are very impressed and in the

672
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,440
sweet wine in the botrytis

673
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,720
wines produce I think is

674
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,720
the best wine. Because have something different

675
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,220
of all them. All the rest sweet wines that

676
00:42:57,170 --> 00:43:00,850
normally the. The sweet wines are too sweet. No, no. Yes.

677
00:43:00,850 --> 00:43:04,530
But Tokai has one natural acidity that make

678
00:43:05,010 --> 00:43:08,370
the wines very drinkable. Very fresh, very

679
00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:12,930
fantastic. Now the balance between sugar and acidity.

680
00:43:13,010 --> 00:43:16,690
And are we tasting some of those today? Yes. Okay, good.

681
00:43:18,130 --> 00:43:21,490
You know, I went to a luncheon a few weeks ago with

682
00:43:21,490 --> 00:43:25,210
Chateau Yikem. And my father and I were discussing

683
00:43:25,210 --> 00:43:28,810
this together the other day. He said, well, what do they

684
00:43:28,810 --> 00:43:32,490
serve with those wines? I said, dad, we had a full four course

685
00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:36,330
meal with different vintages of Ikem. And

686
00:43:36,330 --> 00:43:39,410
you would think off the top of your head that they're too sweet for some

687
00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:43,210
meals, but the pairings were phenomenal. And some fishes

688
00:43:43,210 --> 00:43:46,970
and things, because it's not that cloying, it's not that sweet and

689
00:43:46,970 --> 00:43:50,090
it sounds like Tokai. Well, I know Tokay is the same way, but I can

690
00:43:50,090 --> 00:43:53,940
see now that you can serve those wines with the meal.

691
00:43:53,940 --> 00:43:57,300
As part of the meal, you don't have to wait till dessert, right? Yes. And

692
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:01,020
you're making some dry wines there as well. How

693
00:44:01,020 --> 00:44:03,940
did that come about? And we'll wrap this up because you have to get the

694
00:44:03,940 --> 00:44:07,740
lunch. I'm gonna have lunch. But how? It's the

695
00:44:07,740 --> 00:44:11,540
same grapes, venting them

696
00:44:11,540 --> 00:44:15,340
all the way through. Yes. We saw because to produce

697
00:44:15,340 --> 00:44:19,070
the sweet in Tokay, there are two

698
00:44:19,070 --> 00:44:22,750
harvests. One to make the dry wine. And

699
00:44:22,750 --> 00:44:25,910
after we keep some parcels for the sweet

700
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:30,310
and the grape sweets. And

701
00:44:30,310 --> 00:44:34,070
the dry wine is mixed to produce a new fermentation.

702
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:38,310
Really? This is the origin? Yes, the original, but never

703
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:41,510
before. Nobody before thought to

704
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:44,940
commercialize the dry wine. And

705
00:44:45,020 --> 00:44:48,740
like we saw that the sweet wine is

706
00:44:48,740 --> 00:44:52,500
a limited market. Yes. So

707
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:55,020
we decide to start in

708
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:58,620
1999, we decide to

709
00:44:58,940 --> 00:45:02,700
start to commercialize the dry wine. The dry wine

710
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:06,540
is produced with a full mint. But it is

711
00:45:06,540 --> 00:45:10,310
the main variety in Tokai is the, the variety who give

712
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:13,430
this fantastic acidity to the sweet wines

713
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:17,910
and represent today the 80% of the vineyards in

714
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:21,430
Tokayo. And well, it's a

715
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:23,270
very, very nice wine.

716
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:29,270
It's a wine that you can keep 10, 15

717
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:32,710
years perfectly. It's Montaigne, John.

718
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:36,670
Really? Yes, it's very, very nice wine. That's interesting. But the

719
00:45:36,670 --> 00:45:40,490
people don't know. Well, we are now showing in

720
00:45:40,490 --> 00:45:44,250
the world that you can do it.

721
00:45:44,250 --> 00:45:47,890
No, it's very, it's very successful. And the people

722
00:45:47,890 --> 00:45:51,650
likes when they, they drink. And we are making

723
00:45:51,650 --> 00:45:55,410
a big effort in. To show how is the wine.

724
00:45:56,770 --> 00:46:00,410
So am I able to get this wine from the, from the great Golden

725
00:46:00,410 --> 00:46:04,130
State Wholesale Group, this dry Tokai

726
00:46:04,130 --> 00:46:05,880
wine? Yes.

727
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,760
You know, I don't want to take any more of your time. It's been a

728
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,800
great pleasure, Pablo, having you here and I hope that we get to do this

729
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,520
again next time you come because I have more questions, but I think

730
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,360
it's time to get you downstairs and start the program down there. And I

731
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,160
look forward to that and seeing you next time.

732
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,960
Thank you very much. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. Cheers.