From Australia to Paso: Jane Dunkley on Authentic Wine, Bezel, and California’s New Wave

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If you're just coming to say, oh, geez, I really like to drink wine and

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I've got a little bit of money because I've whatever did

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xyz. And I'm coming to PASO to start a brand because I couldn't think

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of any other way to spend my money. I mean, bless those people. We. We

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need them in the industry. I think that the

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consumer is starting to really see through all of that,

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and people want to know what you stand for and why you're doing

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what you're doing. I think if you have a good story and

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you have good intentions and you're willing to

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make this your life, then I think

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there's definitely space. Sit back and grab a glass.

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It's Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And I'm laughing because I did not

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push record on the previous take of this show, but I did push record

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this time. I'm here in Southern California. I am the guy that tasted 17.

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I actually only tasted 100,000 wines, but sold 17 million bottles along

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the way. And those 100,000 wines I tasted got

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100,000 stories. And I decided Wine Talks is going to tell

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the stories of the wine business. While we're on the line today with Jane Dunkley

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of Bezel Vineyards. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Paul. Thanks for having me and

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allowing me to contribute to one of those stories. Actually, the first thing I said

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to you when we got on the call was like, where your accent was from.

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And it's going to lead into other things. So I had a hard time guessing.

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Well, I got close. I got 50%. But Australia was

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where we landed. Yes, it's Australia. And, you know, like in

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Australia, you know, like we do in other places, we have

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regional accents. So this is a Western Australian accent.

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So Western Australia would be, well,

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let's see, the Barosa is in the

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south, right bottom. And so what's in the west?

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There's not much in the west, and that's kind of a blessing and a curse.

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So one of my. My shtick is kind of that Perth is

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the most isolated city in the world. And I grew up three hours south of

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there in a small rural town.

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And I did most of my winemaking in Australia. In

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Margaret river is the wine region. Down there, which is a beautiful region.

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But so that's interesting. How would somebody from south of Perth

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and the tiny, I'm guessing either agricultural

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town or out in the bush, I guess

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yes. Ends up on the wine trade. How does that happen? It's kind of

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funny, isn't it? You know, I feel really blessed to.

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I just think that I realized so early on in my

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life that this was what I wanted to do. You know, I grew up on

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a beef cattle ranch and I

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knew I wanted to be involved in agriculture in some way.

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But there's a certain smell that you get when you've been working in the

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cattle yards that kind of no amount of showering will sort

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of get rid of. And I think that my maybe my

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sensory kind of skills were already honed at a young age.

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I was like, I can't smell like that for the rest of my life. So

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I thought, you know, what other avenues are there where I can sort of

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be involved in agriculture, but

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in sort of a different way to my

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family kind of heritage? And winemaking kind of popped up

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as one of those things that could tick these boxes.

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And also leaning into the science, I like cooking, I like

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gastronomy, but, you know, working in a hot kitchen didn't

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sound like much fun either. And so winemaking it is.

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So it was an all, as they would say, an olfactory,

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know, decision. I don't want to smell like a cow. And you know,

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I, I know the feeling because I. My first job, they put me

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in the cattle processing part of Los

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Angeles to sell stuff. And I know exactly what you're

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talking about. Yeah, it's a very. And it's not

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even necessarily a very bad smell. Like I,

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I have fond memories, kind of altered smell, but I just don't need

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to be smelling that every single day. Well, you know, you're in a

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business that is traditionally and expected

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to be trigger smells. And this is what's the thing that's really

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amazing about wine for me and probably for you, is that you

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can, you can smell a wine and five years later, ten years

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later, approach that glass again. And maybe it's age, but

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you still know where you were and what was happening. Yeah,

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when that, when you smelled that. Same with food. Right. I mean, you. The memory

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of food and the memory of smell and the taste is so

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identifiable as to where. When you are. But how did you end up then

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in the United States or you started making wine in Margaret river, which is a

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beautiful, elegant part of the winemaking district of, Of

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Australia and makes fairly elegant wine. So that's where you started. You just said,

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I'm going to Margaret river and start making wine. Yeah, I mean,

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I, you know, I did, but did my

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university sort of thing, and I started

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out going to university in Perth and I'm Just, I'm actually a

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terrible student, turns out, but I'm a really good worker. And

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so somebody. I did my first harvest

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at the winery around the corner where I grew up, and

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that was in 2002. And the

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winemaker there at the time said, you know, you can go to a different university,

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so you can work full time and then do your studies.

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I'm aging myself here by correspondence because the

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Internet was correspondence. I haven't heard that term in

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a long time. Yeah. Which basically means, yeah, you teach yourself organic

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chemistry from home and kind of go over

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to college twice a year and hope for the best. But that was wonderful

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because I was able to work and do

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harvests and also do study

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kind of at the. At the same time. And so then

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the theoretical knowledge, practical knowledge really

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came together quite nicely and in a meaningful

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way that made it really sort of sink in.

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You know, that's interesting because, you know, there are many winemakers

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born of a cellar rat and having never studied.

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And then there's, of course, the completely theoretical

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winemaker who starts in college and goes through the whole process. But

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that seems like a rather great balance to be able to sort of be studying

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at the same time, but you're getting your hands dirty at the same time. And

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so the question always is, like, if you took the same

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winemaker and put same vineyard,

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but one person had been working that vineyard for 20 years.

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They. They know it well by vine, they know the vineyard.

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And you bring in a. Somebody that's worked all over the world, that's

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tended vineyards in Argentina, Australia, France and Italy

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and give them the same grapes. Do you get two different wines? Of course.

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And we'll just. You. I guess we can't say in the world of wine that

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one's better than the other. Right. They're just going to be different based on

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terroir, I suppose. Yeah. And. Well, I think the

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piece that a lot of people miss about terroir is that it's not just

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the rocks and the weather. The human influence is,

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you know, one of those pillars kind of. Of. Of terroir. And,

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you know, we. We make decisions, we

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intervene, you know, whether it even be in

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the. In the vineyard in terms of canopy

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architecture, the cultural practices we do, the

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timing of. Of the pick and things like that, and

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how we handle the wine. There's an infinite number of decisions

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that get made. And so I think, you know, you could have

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twin twins that both went to Davis that do this, and they make

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different wines, you know, so I think that's the best Part

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of, of winemaking is that it is

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an expression. That's your, what's your personal

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philosophy and goal on this? Here you are after you were in

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Margaretville. Margaretville,

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Is that what it's called? No, it's not Margaret Ville, is it? Margaret River. Margaret

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river, yeah. What the. You know, one of the first wines I ever bought on

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behalf of my father when we, when I started working with him, 1988 was

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the Lewin Chardonnay, 1983 Chardonnay. It

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was fabulous wine. Was an iconic wine.

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Yes. And it was part of the Wine of the Month club at that time.

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But after, after you were in Margaret river, where,

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where'd you end up and how'd you end up in Paso? Yeah. So,

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you know, us Aussies, we tend to bounce around

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a little bit and I think, you know, like a lot of people and

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in the wine world, we're all masochists. Right. And so I

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would take all of my vacation time, so

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I worked at the winery full time and then I'd take my vacation time and

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then I would go into harvest elsewhere. Because

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what else are you going to do on your vacation? Because when you're in

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wine, you're obsessed with wine, so you need more wine, you don't need

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time off from wine. So, you know, I went

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and worked in Portugal, I went and worked in Italy,

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and then I was sort of staying put in Western Australia a little bit.

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I was working at a great winery in a very lesser known

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region I call the Ferguson Valley,

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which is just a little bit, a little bit further north, a little inland, and

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we would call it an elevation in Western Australia, but because it's the

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flattest place on earth. Yeah.

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And then I kind of thought, oh, no, you know, you start

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to get itchy feet a little bit. And

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a guy who was a mentor of mine received

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a phone call from Randall Graham. And he had worked for Randall

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many, many years ago. And you know, Randall was like, oh, we need

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help this harvest. You know, would you consider coming? And he

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said, no, but I know just the person. And he called me up and he

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said, you need to go and work for, for Randall

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in Santa Cruz. And I was like, oh, actually that's kind of perfect. And

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so that was 2014, and I thought that I was going to be there for

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three months. And I was 11 years guy.

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You know, California just kind of get here. Yeah, you know,

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that's a, that's a pretty. I mean, you know, in

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French, stagiere. I mean, that's, that's quite an

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opportunity. To get under the wing of Randall Graham as such an iconic guy,

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particularly in California. Yeah. And you know.

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Yeah. You know, just, I've sort of. I've done a

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terrible job of building my resume with

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iconic wineries, but I've done a really good job

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of finding fellow.

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How do I put this? Like fellow

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kind of crazy thinkers around the world.

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I'm good at that kind of thing. And that's how

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I've been able to find people that have really challenged the

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way that we think of our wine and winemaking and

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just. And the universe that sort of surrounds that. And so

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Randall Graham definitely checked that box and I was just able to

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learn so much from him. And then when

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Bonnie Doone was, was getting sold, I came down and worked for,

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worked for Gallo in, at the San

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Miguel facility, overseeing a couple of different wineries here on the Central coast,

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and then ended up working with Randall again

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as part of the Language of Yes project.

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So I've been really, really lucky to have a lot of

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Randall in my life. This industry is so.

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I mean it's huge and there's. But it's, it's

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not going to say it's a fraternity, sorority. Maybe it is to a certain extent

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because there's so many interconnecting and there's actually. I

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had a woman on the show, her name is Jessica Kogan. She works for a

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brand development company now called Connect the Dots. And there seems to be a lot

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of dot connecting in this industry. I only said that because I had a podcast

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last week with Jason Haas, whose

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father was part of the Roan Rangers, who, you know, we started that

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conversation and those guys with Randall would hang out at a restaurant called

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Laleem's in Berkeley. And that guy who owned that

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restaurant now makes wine in Armenia and is very close friend of mine. And I

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thought, wow, what a crazy connection. Yeah, you really

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must be careful in the world of wine because if you're careful to

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anyone, someone on the other world is going to give you a slap for it.

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So, yeah, what's going on? But it's also

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part of its, it's unique in that industry

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and that people are so connected and that there is

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such camaraderie and knowledge based

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sharing and the opportunities to do that.

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I just think that that is absolutely the best thing about,

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about the wine industry because, you know, part of

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my, with my studies being distance education,

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when I would go to uni

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and we'd sit all of our labs and like kind of exams and

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a couple of weeks, a couple of times a Year. But through that I was

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able to meet other winemakers, but

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from different wine regions all around Australia. And they were doing

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the same thing as, as me and

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different ages, different backgrounds, and we were

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all able to just get together and with wine,

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sort of forge these really long term

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friendships. And then when I travel around the world,

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you know, even now, people are, oh yeah, I know this one

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random person in Australia. Yep, yep.

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Actually worked with them in some other place. No, it's.

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And it, and it's wonderful. And even we can go and visit

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wineries and say, hi, I'm a winemaker, I work at this

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winery. You know, can you host me? And you have these

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most, these amazing experiences. I wonder if

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that's part of, and I'm not saying this

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condescendingly, but part of the, the

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aristocracy of wine that people find

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barriers difficult. I'm not, I'm not suggesting that is because I think that this

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camaraderie and this fraternity, sorority aspect of it is very important

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part of, because it's really art and science blended. But

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I wonder if, wonder why it's so perceived as

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aristocratic to the general public.

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Well, I think that you go, you know, I think we think about

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wine and we think about the chateaus of Bordeaux

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and you know, and I think

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that then. And some of that,

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I mean, otherwise, how could people kind of afford to even make these

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wines? You know, there is this sort of, there is a legacy

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in a lot of these iconic wineries in the world. And that's.

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Those are the wineries that we learn about when we're learning about wine,

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for better or worse. And I think that's why

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it's so exciting to be in California, because it

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really does feel like there's an opportunity for

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everyone. And I think we see that in Paso Robles and we see that

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in the San Luis Obispo coast. There's a lot of young winemakers

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who, you know, have these small brands that

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have a very unique point of view. And

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so I would challenge people to, to look

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away from these sort of heritage,

256
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legacy, multi generational

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brands and find what's out there.

258
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No, I think that's a good position. But just

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to touch on one more time and then we'll move on to that from this.

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But it's that lineage and that

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legacy and that camaraderie

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that this industry has and no other. You don't do this with microchips, you

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don't do this with makers, you don't do it with anything else. But wine

264
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needs to have that legacy or at Least that

265
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assimilation of information and knowledge base, you know, to move the needle.

266
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Yeah. So here, here you are now. And it sounds like you, most of

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your work has been done in the new world, quote unquote, you know, North America,

268
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Australia, South Americ. And that's, that's

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kind of a positive part of moving the needle for what you're

270
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saying is getting the consumer involved with all this. Yeah, but

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I don't know that you ever get around it. And this is the part that

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bothers me a little bit online with some of these Gen Z's

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and millennials talking about changing the language and all the things that

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go into what actually make wine. Wine. Yeah. In order

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for you to do what you have to do, you have to know all these

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things, you have to understand the history. You have to have worked with Randall Graham,

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you have, you've had to work with Gallo, a large, you know, one of the

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largest corporations in the country in wine, to do that. And I think

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that adds to your personal terroir. Yeah. You

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bring to the table. So Bezel,

281
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your current project is a cake bread

282
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company. Yeah. And it's the

283
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cake bread, of course, being one of the iconic early

284
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influencers or developers of wine in the Napa Valley.

285
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So how, how does this work? Is it's an independent company. You.

286
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What's the relationship? No, so

287
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essentially the idea for this kind

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of started in February of 2020. I don't know about

289
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you, Paul, but I think there are a few people that would kind of had

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a little bit of extra time on their hands. Yes, we, well, we were busy

291
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as we are really busy, but that's okay.

292
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Well, and I think, you know, we talk about cake bread being kind of a

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legacy, a legacy company. And

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you know, it is a family, it is a family business. And so the cake

295
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breads were sort of coming up on that 50 year

296
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anniversary of cake bread sellers

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and then really starting to think, you know, what is the next 50

298
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years kind of, kind of going to hold. And I think we

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are all aware that, you know,

300
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perhaps it's not the Gen Z and millennials that are

301
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drinking these kind of legacy wine brands

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for whatever reason, whether it be style, whether it be cost.

303
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And so the cake reds really wanted to bring

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new people into, into their world

305
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and they knew that they couldn't do it in Napa at

306
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that price point, and nor did they want to. I mean, you

307
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:23,830
know, Jack Cakebread, you know, got the money to start

308
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to start the winery from taking

309
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photographs with Ansel Adams. And so there is that

310
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kind of there's a culture of exploring

311
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landscapes, I want to say, within the Cape bread sort of

312
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soul. And so then kind of they were able to

313
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think, all right, so where can we bring

314
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new friends into the cake bread family

315
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without it being a copy and paste of cake bread

316
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sellers? Because basil certainly is not that.

317
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,320
But there is a similar kind of heartbeat into these

318
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wines. And so when they're sort of looking and

319
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you know, they did, you know, they were really thinking about the whole west coast

320
00:20:11,530 --> 00:20:14,650
of the US for this and kind of settled on

321
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Pasarobles to make Cabernet. And we've got a

322
00:20:18,490 --> 00:20:22,170
Sauvignon Blanc that's going to come out next year. And then

323
00:20:23,130 --> 00:20:26,970
really excitingly, you know, thinking about cool climate,

324
00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:30,530
Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. And so San Luis, obvious by

325
00:20:30,530 --> 00:20:33,980
coast, which was just kind of a newly named

326
00:20:33,980 --> 00:20:37,460
Ava at that time, just felt like such an

327
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exciting place to be. And how lucky am I that

328
00:20:41,140 --> 00:20:44,900
we have these two climates where we can grow these varieties in such

329
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:48,420
a short distance, you know, half an hour over the grade.

330
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And a totally different climate than where I live in

331
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Paso Robles. So it is,

332
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:59,520
you know, I have a cake bread email address. It is

333
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100% part of. Of the cake bread

334
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:07,200
family. But I just have a little office

335
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down here in. In Pasar. And I have an assistant

336
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winemaker and a grow relations person as well,

337
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who helps me out with the vineyard contracts. And we're this tiny little

338
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team and it's. You know, there aren't many people that get

339
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to start kind of a wine brand from scratch.

340
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:28,470
No. With this legacy kind of

341
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behind it. So, yeah, it's really exciting project.

342
00:21:32,790 --> 00:21:35,110
And how do you find Paso? I mean,

343
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:39,910
I. I visited in 2004. I bought 60 acres,

344
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thinking that that was gonna be my retirement. I'm in the wine trade. This is

345
00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:45,670
great. I'm gonna go up the thing and I found out that I'm a horrible

346
00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:49,390
farmer and I'm gonna kill everything. And I can't even grow, you know, the

347
00:21:49,390 --> 00:21:53,190
cultured kids sets that you buy at Toys R Us. I can't make those grow.

348
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:56,670
And so we decided to.

349
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We decided to abandon that dream because it

350
00:22:00,670 --> 00:22:04,070
wasn't for me. But how do you find Paso? Being an

351
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:07,630
Australian born and having traveled the world as

352
00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:10,830
a. It used to be so rural, and it still kind of is. It's kind

353
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:13,950
of cool as a wine district. It's still got that

354
00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:17,790
rural character. Has a rodeo still. Yeah. You know,

355
00:22:18,350 --> 00:22:22,150
I think it's really unique. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely

356
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love it. I love Paso Because I think

357
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I grew up in, you know, got a

358
00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:32,900
beef cattle background, you know. And so

359
00:22:33,460 --> 00:22:37,300
when we are out, you know, I, you know, like to

360
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go to Creston and all of these other places. And even when I'm working

361
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with my growers, I understand. I understand

362
00:22:44,740 --> 00:22:48,340
these people. And I think that does kind of bring

363
00:22:49,140 --> 00:22:52,900
an advantage to, you know, the. The work that we do.

364
00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:57,080
But then we had this great m. You know, I

365
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,800
think the. The tourism part of Paso is

366
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,920
awesome. So we get a lot of people coming up from la,

367
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,360
a lot of sophistication that comes in. And,

368
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,520
you know, I've got great restaurants, good coffee, all of that sort of thing,

369
00:23:11,999 --> 00:23:14,720
but really kind of an unpretentious

370
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,280
vibe. And I was really lucky. When I first

371
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,240
came down here. I did a tasting

372
00:23:23,870 --> 00:23:27,710
with another winery, and the assistant winemaker there at

373
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:31,510
the time, she said, oh, I'm putting together a female winemaker's

374
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:35,310
tasting group. Would you be up for it? Fun. Oh, yeah.

375
00:23:35,310 --> 00:23:38,750
And so, you know, we've been. That was. Gosh,

376
00:23:38,989 --> 00:23:42,750
I can't even remember how many years ago now, almost 10 years

377
00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:46,550
ago, that we sort of had this tasting group. And

378
00:23:46,550 --> 00:23:49,470
that had. Was really sort of critical to

379
00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:55,300
me, sort of building a community within Paso Robles.

380
00:23:55,780 --> 00:23:59,540
You know, it's interesting. The guy that sold me the property, which was on.

381
00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:01,860
Which was on the Australia river road,

382
00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:06,980
was a cattle rancher, I think, by trade, or his family was. I think it

383
00:24:06,980 --> 00:24:10,740
was up towards San Miguel, up on the Lake Nacimiento up

384
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:14,340
there. And I thought when you said you were cattle, and I thought, well, it's

385
00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:18,100
pretty active there still. Yeah, probably it's a great place.

386
00:24:18,260 --> 00:24:21,720
But, you know, this is. Let's. Let's be frank here. I mean,

387
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,560
Paso's come a long way. It used to be a lot of cowboy

388
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,400
shops and thrift stores, and now you have a French restaurant. I mean, it's

389
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,160
unbelievable. A French restaurant and a Spanish restaurant run by the French

390
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,920
family. Yeah, there you have it. But, you

391
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,640
know, it's kind of unique, though, right here. It's still rural, it's still great. We

392
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,760
love coming there. You know, you got to stop at James Dean's, you know, crash

393
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,480
site on Highway 46, all that kind of stuff. But then it's also

394
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,280
the scene of, like, one of the largest wine purchases in the history

395
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,720
of America at a billion dollars for Dow. Yeah.

396
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,760
What an interesting juxtaposition of the rurality of

397
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,200
it. But this high dollar amount, which is. Which

398
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,040
unfortunately is part of the allure to many people that have

399
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,640
money in Los Angeles. Or any part of the world. Oh, wow, look at the

400
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,140
money this guy made. Maybe I could do the same. And that's probably the wrong

401
00:25:13,140 --> 00:25:16,580
motivation to get in the wine trade. Yeah, but, but an interesting

402
00:25:16,580 --> 00:25:20,420
juxtaposition, essentially. Yeah. And. Well, and I think that, you

403
00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:24,020
know, we do have to thank Dow because,

404
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:27,900
you know, I remember when I first came to California without

405
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:31,700
really much knowledge of Paso Robles and living in Santa Cruz,

406
00:25:32,580 --> 00:25:36,060
there was a time where the only red

407
00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:39,860
wine by the glass was Dow. And so they just have

408
00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:43,660
done such an amazing job of taking

409
00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:46,780
that from zero to a billion dollar

410
00:25:47,260 --> 00:25:51,020
business. And so to be able to build

411
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:54,700
a brand, I think to

412
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:58,340
that level that quickly, you know, hats off to

413
00:25:58,340 --> 00:26:01,740
them. And I think what's great about Paso as well is,

414
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:06,460
you know, rising tides float all boats. That's true.

415
00:26:06,460 --> 00:26:08,940
There's space for, there's space for all of us.

416
00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:13,460
And whether you're a micro producer in Tin City

417
00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:17,740
and you know, I've been on the other side of that where you're the, where

418
00:26:17,740 --> 00:26:21,540
you're the big guy, you know, and there is, there's space

419
00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:25,539
for, for all of us and there's a really good kind of knowledge exchange

420
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:30,100
within the community about how we can kind of all

421
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:33,820
help each other out. You know, in Armenia, which is.

422
00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:37,420
I'm Armenia by heritage, I spent a lot of time there. In fact, the

423
00:26:37,420 --> 00:26:40,990
gentleman that is talking about that used to own Lalim, where the Ron

424
00:26:40,990 --> 00:26:44,470
Rangers were founded. It makes wine in Armenia. Makes

425
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:47,990
incredible wine there. But it's, it's interesting because

426
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:52,070
it's already gotten to the point where there's so many new brands and there's so

427
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:55,750
many people coming from America to, to there to try to express themselves

428
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:59,510
through. Through wine. Yeah. That it's almost gotten to the point where the.

429
00:26:59,910 --> 00:27:03,510
And the land is really inexpensive compared to Paso or Napa, of course.

430
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:07,390
But it's almost got to the point where it's partially

431
00:27:07,390 --> 00:27:10,830
prohibitive to try and start a brand because by the time you get to the

432
00:27:10,830 --> 00:27:14,630
street, people can't afford what you need to charge for it. Yeah. Is it

433
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:18,470
possible in Paso to find Swath somewhere and sort of

434
00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:22,390
claw and scratch your way to some kind of brand recognition without

435
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:24,550
the backing of a Dao?

436
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:30,470
That's a really, really hard question. Look, I still think we're

437
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:34,140
in the new world or in California if you're.

438
00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:37,980
You just got to get scrappy with it. I think, I think there is.

439
00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:43,180
Look, and I think that we all know where the industry

440
00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:47,060
is right now. There is about to be probably a bit of

441
00:27:47,060 --> 00:27:49,980
A reckoning. But people that have

442
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:54,140
a unique voice and have

443
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:58,500
something to say and can say it through

444
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:02,210
wine, you know, if you're just coming to say, oh, geez,

445
00:28:02,210 --> 00:28:05,490
I really like to drink wine and I've got a little bit of money because

446
00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:09,170
I've whatever did xyz and

447
00:28:09,170 --> 00:28:12,090
I'm coming to passo to start a brand because I couldn't think of any other

448
00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:15,850
way to spend my money. I mean, bless those people. We. We need them in

449
00:28:15,850 --> 00:28:19,490
the industry. But, you know, I

450
00:28:19,490 --> 00:28:22,890
think that the consumer is starting to really

451
00:28:23,050 --> 00:28:26,900
see through all of that. And people want to know what you

452
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:29,740
stand for and why you're doing what you're doing.

453
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:34,900
And so I think if you have. If you have

454
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,380
a good story and you have good intentions and

455
00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:41,340
you're willing to make this your life,

456
00:28:42,540 --> 00:28:46,180
then I think there's definitely space for you. I think you just define

457
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:48,220
something without you knowing it.

458
00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:53,540
And it actually just gave me some thoughts about this podcast

459
00:28:53,540 --> 00:28:56,780
itself on how it reaches. Because there is an

460
00:28:56,780 --> 00:29:00,380
authenticity requirement these days. Not that there wasn't

461
00:29:00,380 --> 00:29:04,140
authenticity in previous ventures of all industries, but

462
00:29:04,140 --> 00:29:06,260
it seems that the Gen Z Millennial group

463
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:10,260
relate to that more than they do branding,

464
00:29:11,140 --> 00:29:14,460
innovation and packaging, necessarily, but just the

465
00:29:14,460 --> 00:29:18,300
authenticity of the message. And so when you use the term unique

466
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:22,010
voice, that's almost a

467
00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:25,450
synonym for innovation, because I don't

468
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:29,690
like this conversation that's going on about innovation in the

469
00:29:29,690 --> 00:29:32,650
wine trade, meaning we're going to add flavors, we're going to put it in a

470
00:29:32,650 --> 00:29:34,730
can, we're going to put in a box, we're going to put in a bladder,

471
00:29:35,210 --> 00:29:38,650
we're going to market it. And I've had so many people on the show that

472
00:29:38,650 --> 00:29:42,290
think that because they put the wine in a 200ml can, that that's

473
00:29:42,290 --> 00:29:45,610
innovation. That's not. But the unique voice

474
00:29:45,610 --> 00:29:49,270
idea is. And however that unique voice

475
00:29:49,270 --> 00:29:52,270
is expressed can be called innovation,

476
00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:56,390
definitely in this trade. So. And I tasted your

477
00:29:56,390 --> 00:30:00,070
wines yesterday. They sent me the Sauvignon Blanc in the

478
00:30:00,070 --> 00:30:03,670
Cabernet. And the first thing I thought of when I tasted the Sauvignon Blanc is

479
00:30:03,670 --> 00:30:07,390
this is. I didn't. It wasn't a New Zealand because

480
00:30:07,390 --> 00:30:10,950
it wasn't quite that much grapefruit, but it

481
00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:14,670
certainly had that Southern hemisphere character about it. Is that. Did you. Oh,

482
00:30:14,670 --> 00:30:18,520
thank you. Yes. So you were

483
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,200
trying to do that, obviously. And that's great. That's a unique voice coming

484
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,200
from Paso, because many Sauvignon Blancs from Paso are very

485
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,360
viscous and. And not expressive that way. Yeah. And

486
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,960
you know I mean, I think for me, the Sauvignon Blanc was a really

487
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,040
fun opportunity, and I did sort of put my

488
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,680
neck on the line a little bit with that, because everyone's like, it's very hot

489
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,170
in Paso. You sure you want to make Spinon Blanche? And I had to say,

490
00:30:44,170 --> 00:30:47,650
well, you know, I did actually make a living making Sauvignon Blanc

491
00:30:47,650 --> 00:30:51,450
blends for 15 years

492
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:55,370
in Western Australia. So I think that wine

493
00:30:55,450 --> 00:30:58,410
speaks more to that.

494
00:30:59,690 --> 00:31:03,490
I don't have Semillon yet, so I'll. Put

495
00:31:03,490 --> 00:31:07,330
a little bit of Chardonnay in. In these wines, just to kind of replace the

496
00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:10,720
role of. Of Semillon, because, once again, we're in Paso

497
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,480
Robles. We make up our own rules, you know, and so

498
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,560
I think I wanted to have a different expression.

499
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,200
And especially, you

500
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,040
know, these are the sort of wines I like to drink where I want

501
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,440
my palate to be almost cleansed by the

502
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,640
wine. I don't want it to be 14%

503
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,560
alcohol, and I'm sure that there's a lot of people out there that do. And

504
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,350
I think there's a lot of great wines in the market that sit in that

505
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:43,950
space, But I wanted it to be light

506
00:31:43,950 --> 00:31:47,470
and bright and vibrant and

507
00:31:48,110 --> 00:31:51,750
fun and just something that people can open up

508
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:55,510
and drink out of one of those govinos

509
00:31:55,510 --> 00:31:58,590
in the park in Paso if that's what they want to do. And

510
00:31:59,550 --> 00:32:02,830
it doesn't need to be aged. It can be

511
00:32:02,830 --> 00:32:05,070
consumed without pretense

512
00:32:06,820 --> 00:32:10,660
and without weighing you down and

513
00:32:10,660 --> 00:32:14,420
making you feel like you can't, I don't know, go to Virginia

514
00:32:14,420 --> 00:32:17,860
the next. Well, you've done. Well, you've done that, girl. So.

515
00:32:19,060 --> 00:32:22,260
But that's interesting, because though I sensed,

516
00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:27,100
you know, Southern hemisphere, there was a certain minerality

517
00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:30,740
to it. Yeah. That told you it was not from those

518
00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:34,230
parts. Yeah. So even though the nose and the weight

519
00:32:34,550 --> 00:32:38,390
had that reminiscence, there was certain something, character about it that was telling me

520
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:41,750
I'm not so good. I would have said that this is from Paso if it

521
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:45,350
was a blind tasting, but I certainly would have said this is not necessarily from

522
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:49,070
that area, but stylistically it is. Was that on your resume when you. When

523
00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:52,910
you came to work for Cake Bread? I'm from the New World, and we

524
00:32:52,910 --> 00:32:56,510
don't have rules. Oh, gosh.

525
00:32:56,510 --> 00:33:00,150
Probably it just came out in the interview. Who knows, right?

526
00:33:01,330 --> 00:33:04,690
I felt like I did 500 interviews for this job.

527
00:33:05,010 --> 00:33:08,690
They were very thorough. Well,

528
00:33:08,690 --> 00:33:11,570
I think this job also has its kind of unique

529
00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:16,450
challenges, and so the cake breads were very sure that they

530
00:33:16,450 --> 00:33:19,890
did not want to Transplant an apple winemaker

531
00:33:20,370 --> 00:33:24,050
into Paso Robles. This

532
00:33:24,130 --> 00:33:27,010
is a really cool project because we don't own a winery,

533
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:31,260
we don't own any vineyards. And so

534
00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:35,260
I think the reason I got this job is because

535
00:33:36,860 --> 00:33:40,660
I can talk to growers. I've done these sort of

536
00:33:40,660 --> 00:33:44,220
custom crush things before. It is a different way

537
00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:47,900
of getting things from, from grape to

538
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:51,180
glass that has its own level of complications.

539
00:33:52,380 --> 00:33:55,580
And I've already sort of been able to

540
00:33:55,740 --> 00:33:59,460
navigate that in, in a past life many

541
00:33:59,460 --> 00:34:03,300
times over. And so I think that was, that was a

542
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:07,060
big, A big part of it was. Yeah, being

543
00:34:07,060 --> 00:34:10,420
able to, to work in a very non

544
00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:14,020
traditional way. And I think being from Australia and being a

545
00:34:14,020 --> 00:34:17,580
very perhaps non traditional kind of human being,

546
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,919
it seems like a really good fit. It's kind of interesting

547
00:34:22,919 --> 00:34:25,839
too, with the Cabernet as well and

548
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,999
the. You. There's no, there's no denying that the Daos

549
00:34:30,999 --> 00:34:34,758
of the world, the Austin Hope, saw fine wines and done very well in the

550
00:34:34,758 --> 00:34:38,159
marketplace. If you equate that brand

551
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,519
recognition to Napa, you're going to call it Caymus and Silver Oak.

552
00:34:41,919 --> 00:34:45,519
And, and stylistically, you know, that's what

553
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,760
sells. And we're in the business of selling stuff, let's face it, despite

554
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,360
our, our anticipation, want

555
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,440
to be extraordinarily unique and really represent terroir.

556
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,000
Sometimes that doesn't sell. And so we have to be. We have to be careful

557
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,840
with that. But I found your Cabernet. And you have to understand too, that when

558
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,640
I mentioned I sold 17 million bottles in my career, they were all

559
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,690
between 15 and 25. That was my, that was what I did

560
00:35:12,690 --> 00:35:15,930
here. Yeah. And I found the Cabernet rather

561
00:35:15,930 --> 00:35:19,570
expressive for it departing a little

562
00:35:19,570 --> 00:35:22,050
bit from this over juiced,

563
00:35:23,090 --> 00:35:26,930
slight residual sugar wine that you would. You might see on the shelf

564
00:35:26,930 --> 00:35:30,530
at the market. Yeah. For all these other brands that are up there.

565
00:35:30,930 --> 00:35:34,450
And there's no. I'm not dissing anything. I'm just saying that you,

566
00:35:34,610 --> 00:35:38,330
you did. So I saw structure in this wine. I saw. I

567
00:35:38,330 --> 00:35:42,080
saw an appellation in this wine. And here's

568
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,920
the ultimate test. Can I tell you the ultimate test? Please.

569
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,520
Because my wife, when we got married, only drank Gallo, you

570
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,440
know, Ryan wine. And now she's my biggest critic.

571
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,239
And so. And she's a Bordeaux

572
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,080
varietal girl. It's just, you know, I can't even stump her

573
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,800
into trying to Syrah or something like that. And so we had poured last night.

574
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,360
I had bored. I actually started with a bottle called Blue Rock, which is grown

575
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,840
in this crazy soil in Sonoma and very,

576
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,880
very expressive and terroir driven. And then we finished that

577
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,480
bottle and I. And I was pouring off the bezel and I was

578
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,320
waiting for, I was waiting for her to change expression. I was

579
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,880
waiting for her to, to look at me, say, you know, this is different or,

580
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,240
you know, what, what is this? She just

581
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,880
is so smooth. I was so proud of myself. I was proud of you

582
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,120
because. Thank you. Because that's not easy to do

583
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,320
in my home. But I really, I really was impressed with,

584
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,800
with the structure of that wine. And it's, you know, there was sort of a

585
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,480
balancing act between being consumer driven and

586
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,040
representing something other than that. Yeah. And well,

587
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,640
thank you. That means, genuinely means a lot to me.

588
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,440
Yeah. I think with the Cabernet, we

589
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,520
have a really great sort of jumping off point

590
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,320
with, with Cape bread. And so I'd

591
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,080
be stupid to not sort of use these wines as inspiration because it's

592
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,079
very easy because Cape bread, Cabernet

593
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,240
tastes like Cabernet. And I think that

594
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,600
Cabernet should taste like Cabernet. And so I think

595
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,560
that a critical part of Cabernet is that there should be

596
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,270
a little bit of greenness. And

597
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:37,630
you know, just to put this wine, these wines in context, and I think

598
00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:41,230
you almost touched on it. But you know, the white wines are 25

599
00:37:41,230 --> 00:37:44,390
bucks and the red wines are essentially 30 bucks.

600
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:47,990
And I

601
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:52,870
drink, most of my wines that I drink are at that price point.

602
00:37:53,110 --> 00:37:56,790
And so I wanted to be really cautious

603
00:37:56,950 --> 00:38:00,790
about that because it's a big responsibility because

604
00:38:00,790 --> 00:38:03,750
you want to deliver varietal expression,

605
00:38:05,350 --> 00:38:08,790
a sense of place and

606
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:14,190
value. But I think that I don't want to be

607
00:38:14,190 --> 00:38:17,750
condescending to the consumer at that price point.

608
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:19,510
Yeah. And I think that

609
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,600
making kind of a serious medium bodied wine was

610
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,720
a really cool challenge for me because

611
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,680
to your point, those wines that are highly

612
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,240
extracted, boozy, a little bit sweet.

613
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:42,400
God, there's a huge market for that and it's very tempting. But

614
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,120
if I followed Dao, I'm going to be ten steps behind

615
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,160
them. I'm never going to be able to catch up. And I don't want to

616
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,800
be looking at someone's butt, you know, the rest of my life. And so

617
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,200
by not able to, you know, go in a different direction

618
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,280
and kind of stake our claim. And in a

619
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,880
way that is true to the cake

620
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,120
bread sort of heritage and legacy where it's,

621
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,160
you know, these sort of almost more classic style wines, but

622
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,920
they're made to be had with food. I don't

623
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,700
want to box people in necessarily without the Bezel, I'm like, yeah, if you want

624
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:21,220
to have it with food, if you want to grab a burger and have it,

625
00:39:21,220 --> 00:39:24,900
great. But I want it to be the wine, not to

626
00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:28,540
be a meal unto itself. And.

627
00:39:28,860 --> 00:39:32,340
And it is kind of scary making a medium bodied

628
00:39:32,340 --> 00:39:36,060
wine because you know that if you're going to be in a

629
00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:41,740
industry tasting and someone's going to be

630
00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:44,700
heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, light. Oh.

631
00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:51,100
But yeah, it felt really important to kind

632
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:54,660
of make, make a different classic expression

633
00:39:54,660 --> 00:39:58,140
of cabernet. But as someone who's done a lot of blind

634
00:39:58,140 --> 00:40:01,540
tasting in my life, God damn it, I want it to taste like Cabernet

635
00:40:03,380 --> 00:40:07,020
and still taste like Paso. A noble pursuit in

636
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:10,780
today's world. But I think, I think with all

637
00:40:10,780 --> 00:40:14,620
my experience and doing this and tasting wines I tasted every

638
00:40:14,620 --> 00:40:18,420
Tuesday for 35 years, literally, unless I was sick. Yeah.

639
00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:22,420
And it still amazes me too, when I taste a wine

640
00:40:23,460 --> 00:40:26,660
out of that environment and I taste something that's got a little RS and a

641
00:40:26,660 --> 00:40:30,340
little residual sugar, it is rather pleasant and you feel

642
00:40:30,340 --> 00:40:33,060
like, oh, this is pretty good wine. But then when you take it out of

643
00:40:33,060 --> 00:40:36,020
context, when you put it in a meal or you put it somewhere

644
00:40:36,660 --> 00:40:40,420
where it's not sort of, it's being analyzed a

645
00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:43,820
little bit more because you're, you're in a moment where you're having some friends or

646
00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:46,820
whatever over for dinner, it doesn't taste as good.

647
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:51,060
And yeah, the second glass is always a little bit tough.

648
00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:55,300
And there's been some studies apparently, and I was talking to Tim Hanai of

649
00:40:55,540 --> 00:40:59,340
Master of Wine. Crazy, crazy guy. But he's saying that there's been

650
00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:03,180
some studies that palates fatigue with sugar. And so that's why people

651
00:41:03,180 --> 00:41:06,820
move on from these brands that they start with that are. I mean, let's face

652
00:41:06,820 --> 00:41:09,380
it, all the wines that you see at supermarket are kind of the same thing,

653
00:41:09,380 --> 00:41:12,540
even though they're from different districts. Once you put in so much

654
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,460
sugar, it sort of blinds the rest of it. Yeah. I think you

655
00:41:16,460 --> 00:41:20,060
lose varietal expression. I mean, is it delicious? Yes.

656
00:41:20,780 --> 00:41:24,180
Yeah, it's easy to drink. Yeah. But your comment about

657
00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:27,420
condescending to the consumer is really interesting because that's,

658
00:41:27,980 --> 00:41:30,980
that's kind of what it is. It's like, well, we're just going to appeal to

659
00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:34,750
you because we know you like this sugar. And I think, and this

660
00:41:34,750 --> 00:41:38,470
is what I was. My thought was when I started this part of the conversation

661
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:41,750
was I think everybody recognizes

662
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:45,550
eventually whether you're a novice drinker, entry level, or

663
00:41:45,550 --> 00:41:48,470
sophisticated taster structure,

664
00:41:49,510 --> 00:41:53,310
and that that structure of that wine, that balance of acid fruit, and then

665
00:41:53,310 --> 00:41:57,150
how those things play with each other are what make

666
00:41:57,150 --> 00:42:00,470
people hold the glass up and go, hmm, this is pretty

667
00:42:00,470 --> 00:42:04,140
interesting. And this is really good. Not just good because it's

668
00:42:04,140 --> 00:42:07,740
slightly sweet, but wow. I really sense something, some emotion in this

669
00:42:07,740 --> 00:42:11,500
wine. Yeah. And I think, I think that's what happened

670
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:14,740
last night with my wife. She's, She's.

671
00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:18,900
She just sort. Regardless of the fact that they're completely different wines. I mean,

672
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:21,740
this thing's called Blue Rock. You probably never heard of it. It's a very small

673
00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:25,300
boutique guy. The rock that it grows in is really blue.

674
00:42:25,860 --> 00:42:29,540
And so you really get this minerality coming from this blue rock, which I'm not

675
00:42:29,540 --> 00:42:32,470
sure what, you know, what the Latin designation is, but

676
00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:36,390
if I can go from that transition to your wine.

677
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:40,550
And structurally, she's. She doesn't get any bumps and sugars and

678
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:43,790
things. She's just going to go right into that glass of wine. That says. That

679
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:47,590
says a lot. Yeah. Well, once again, being, you know,

680
00:42:47,590 --> 00:42:51,430
taking this price point very seriously. Yeah, it's tough point. You

681
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:55,230
know, you're trying to balance a few different things, you know, where we're trying

682
00:42:55,230 --> 00:42:58,930
to. I think we're all trying to bring new friends into wine.

683
00:42:58,930 --> 00:43:02,130
And so, you know, I think the core of the bezel

684
00:43:02,610 --> 00:43:06,330
consumer base, you know, should. Should be millennials. I'm.

685
00:43:06,330 --> 00:43:10,130
I'm a geriatric millennial, so just a horrible

686
00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:13,970
term, but apparently a technical one. I'm going to use that, though, from now on.

687
00:43:14,610 --> 00:43:16,610
It's awful, but here we are.

688
00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:21,010
But, you know, I think

689
00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:26,940
I want to be able to have something there for

690
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:31,540
experienced wine drinkers who, you know, like me,

691
00:43:31,540 --> 00:43:35,300
buy a lot of wine. I have two glasses of wine every single night of

692
00:43:35,300 --> 00:43:38,940
the year. You know, it adds up. And

693
00:43:39,020 --> 00:43:42,060
so I want to be able to have layers,

694
00:43:42,380 --> 00:43:46,100
structure, balance and, and depth

695
00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:49,700
for those people where a wine can evolve in the glass if they're going

696
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:53,390
to, you know, be having that over the course of the night. But

697
00:43:53,470 --> 00:43:56,830
on the flip side, for the more novice consumer,

698
00:43:56,990 --> 00:44:00,590
I want this to be bright and juicy and fruit forward,

699
00:44:00,830 --> 00:44:04,030
and I think strongly about the aromatics where

700
00:44:04,510 --> 00:44:08,350
that entices them. You know, we're pouring these wines,

701
00:44:08,350 --> 00:44:12,030
you know, a lot, you know, by the glass. We're doing wine

702
00:44:12,030 --> 00:44:15,750
festivals and things like that, just trying to, you know, just trying to get people

703
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:19,480
to. To taste the wine. And I think when you have nice,

704
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,920
bright, vibrant aromatics,

705
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,200
that can really help bring people into.

706
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,680
Into the world for the other people, and then they can move on.

707
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,200
To, oh, structure, balance. What am I

708
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,480
tasting? What can I dissect there? Trying to

709
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,240
straddle making something for everyone

710
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,460
without making something for no one and without

711
00:44:47,180 --> 00:44:50,900
taking the easy way out with sugar is a really

712
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:54,700
fun challenge. We're almost out of time, if you can believe that.

713
00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:58,060
But was there a direction from the Cake Bread family

714
00:44:58,940 --> 00:45:02,780
to, I want you to express paso. I want you to express

715
00:45:02,940 --> 00:45:06,580
your experience. I want you to express whatever. Did they give you direction or they

716
00:45:06,580 --> 00:45:09,820
say, we just want the best you can make from what you're given.

717
00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:15,500
There was some direction because there was some wine

718
00:45:17,130 --> 00:45:20,770
already crushed from the prior

719
00:45:20,770 --> 00:45:24,610
vintage. When I started. The blessing that

720
00:45:24,610 --> 00:45:28,290
I had was that it was very

721
00:45:28,290 --> 00:45:32,010
close to the direction that I would have gone anyway. But

722
00:45:32,170 --> 00:45:35,690
my final interview for this position was

723
00:45:36,250 --> 00:45:40,090
Teach us about Path of Red Lights Kavanaugh. And so in front

724
00:45:40,090 --> 00:45:42,250
of the family and sort of the

725
00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:47,100
executive team at Cake Bread, I did

726
00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:50,900
essentially a master class in patho cat and sort

727
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:54,620
of hovering around that price point. And the. The

728
00:45:54,620 --> 00:45:58,140
question was, what would I do? Describe these

729
00:45:58,140 --> 00:46:01,660
wines and then what would I do? And so then I was able to say,

730
00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:05,060
oh, I like the fruit here. I like the greenness there. I don't like this

731
00:46:05,060 --> 00:46:07,980
oak. This little sweet. It's a little boozy. And so

732
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,600
I was able to kind of do my pitch before I got the job.

733
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,960
And so I was really kind of lucky in that regard.

734
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,640
I do take it very, very

735
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,240
seriously, though. This is not Jane Dunkley

736
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,240
wines. This is basil from Cake Bread.

737
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,600
And the success of this

738
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,870
brand is. I mean, it needs to be successful on its

739
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:40,630
own, but it doesn't make sense for it to be

740
00:46:41,110 --> 00:46:44,390
the absolute opposite of Cake Bread. So

741
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:48,550
I am placing those guardrails upon myself

742
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:52,390
to be true to the legacy of Cake

743
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:56,110
Bread. And sometimes that's, you know, using similar

744
00:46:56,110 --> 00:46:59,750
Coopers and. And things like that. So

745
00:47:00,070 --> 00:47:03,910
I think that makes, you know, having that

746
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:07,510
weight on my shoulders is a very

747
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:11,270
good course corrector itself, even if it's self imposed.

748
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:15,350
Well, you said something important.

749
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:22,470
Luck really is, as defined, would be

750
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:26,150
when preparation meets opportunity. So you were prepared for that

751
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:29,790
conversation. And he got the opportunity to

752
00:47:29,790 --> 00:47:33,270
present that conversation, and he landed in a pretty cool

753
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:36,310
spot. I do need some new cowboy gear.

754
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:40,470
For whatever reason, that's where I bought my first set of boots I've ever owned,

755
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:44,030
and my first cowboy shirt is

756
00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:47,590
right, right there. We'll have to come up,

757
00:47:48,070 --> 00:47:51,750
have a visit and regen my

758
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:55,440
collection here. So it's such a pleasure and honor to meet you and opportunity to

759
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,160
hear what you've been through and your philosophy in wine,

760
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,200
but we will. We. I. I am due up there. Got a few podcasts I

761
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,480
got to line up, so I hope we can have a chance to tilt the

762
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,080
glass together. Yeah, please. I'd love to. Love to have you taste some of the

763
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,720
other wines. Yes. All I got to say is two, but that's okay.

764
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:17,440
That's fine. Thank you so much for the time today, and

765
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,760
good luck out there. Thanks for having me.