Behind the Bubbles: Rodolphe Taittinger Discusses Champagne and French Bloom

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I'm going to visit, but it's a very interesting journey for

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her to get to the position she's in and as well for black

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african american vintners. Also,

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I had an episode with Marinella Ardeline and she is

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a PhD, but a specialist in romanian wine. And I

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had an incredible conversation with her because I pulled out my father's newsletter

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from 1981 and we started talking about the romanian

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wines of the soviet era. I think you'll find it fascinating, but

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not why we'll hear today. Here to hear talk to Rodolfo Jean

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Frere Taytanger. Welcome to the show. Hey, Paul.

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Glad to be here with you today. Thank you. So we were

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talking about your status in life. You're the CEO

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of French Bloom, which is a non alcoholic sparkling wine.

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We're going to talk about that. Maybe it's champagne, actually. And you're the co founder

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of Frere. Jean Frere Champagne. Yes, sir. Did I

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say that right? You say it properly and I know it's not that

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easy to say. Being

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brother and Jean Frere being your surname. And so

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brothers, I suppose then you started this with your brothers.

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Yeah, yeah, the name. So for my mother, I'm from

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Detangler family, from my father. We from Burgundy.

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So, you know, we carry a lot of wine

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in our blood. And so my own

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sisters were making cannons for Napoleon

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and the name on the cannons were Freijn

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Ferre. So, you know, in 2005, we decided

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with my two brothers to create our own

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artisanal boutique of champagne focus

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when Aviz, which is a grand cru terroir nearby,

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cellos and a few very nice growers. And

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so we decided to create our own champagne house in 2005.

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Now, it's been almost like 19 years that

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we are doing our champagne. So we are, you know, it's a very

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interesting project. So Burgundy, this is

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some french wine pedigree here. We have a

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burgundian. And was he in the wine trade? When,

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when you lived in, did you live in Burgundy or just your father was. Was

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born there? Yeah, yeah, my father is born there. We're in south of

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Burgundy. So I always grow up nearby

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vineyards in Bogueny, nearby vineyards in Champagne also.

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So, you know, and it's very interesting because the way we

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actually make our champagne at Frere Jean Fried, we

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take a lot of burgundy visions. We age our wine in Burgundy

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barriers. We use Pinot noir and Chardonnay

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almost only. We do very long aging. We try

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to speak about the land, the terroir.

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So we make champagne. Champagne is a remarkable

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wine of celebrations, but we believe it's first a

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beautiful wine. So the way we make our champagne at Fragon

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Ferry is definitely to go back to

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release a wine aspect and, you know,

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season. Right. I made, you know, I made a huge mistake,

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and I'm a huge fan of champagne as a

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beverage, not just for celebration, as you mentioned. In fact, I

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kind of learned that from your cousin Clovis when he brought it up, when I

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brought up the champagne celebration thing. But I taught my

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daughter, my oldest daughter and her husband about champagne, and now it's

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costing me a fortune. So,

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you know, for the listeners, I'd like to lay out

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for the listeners the lay of the land when it comes to Paris champagne, because

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we're going to be in Paris in the end of May. We're going to take

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it probably a day trip out to champagne. You can, it's almost due

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east of Paris. Right. And, yeah, it's only 2 hours. We would

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love to have you actually, when you come to champagne. Well, I appreciate that.

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Take a train drive there either way.

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Yeah. So we usually take a train on the way back

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because we are too.

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I guess that's good policy. Yeah, but I mean, like, if you took

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a train, you know, it's a two hour ride, you're saying.

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Yeah. Is it land in, where is it,

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Laurence? So my cousins

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Clovis with champagne detergents, they are in Rheims. We

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are in Aviz with my two brothers. So Aviz

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is 10 epernay. It's a village,

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Grand Cru, where we're in the kingdom of the

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Chardonnay Grand Cru. So it's very beautiful. It's more like a

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terroir approach, but it's really worth to come

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also to see that. Let's talk about that for a second, because

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Napa, California, most of my listeners have been, or,

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you know, want to go. They'll, they'll see these different regions like

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Oakville, and they'll see Mayakamas mountains and they'll see Rutherford

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and, and the Appalachians in Napa are sort of less

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defined. Terroir wise, it's a little more difficult there,

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though. There are differences. But, you know, France is all

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about terroir, and particularly that part of France, the

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epernay, you know, Reims, you know,

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you said reams, and I used to say reams, and I was correct that it

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was ronce, and now I'm saying reams again. So maybe,

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but my wife is american, you know, so I say Reims to

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her. So I start to say also

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reams. So then, and then, of course, you

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drive down to Burgundy, which is quite a drive, I think.

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And, of course, terroir. And then la pation is

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tres import temper. The van de Burgon

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cC. I started speaking French, but is it

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harder, which sparkling wine, in this case

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champagne, to express terroir because of the bubbles and because of the

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acid, you. Know, the big

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maison of champagne compare themselves to

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orchestra. They really see themselves as an

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orchestra because they're going to mix 100,

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sometimes 200, different town, different

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wine, different type of sepach. At Fergen Faire, we see ourselves

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more like a small jazz band. So our visions, which

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is closer to terroir, is we don't try to mix

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everything. We just, our grapes just come from,

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like, seven villages where 80% of them

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are in Grand Cru. So Grand Cru is really one person of the

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best grapes in champagne. So avise, camonte,

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roget, chouy, ambonet, those

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beautiful terroir. And so the

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idea is to, to really, you know, in the jazz. I love

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jazz. And so, like in the jazz band, you need to have a Saxo,

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you need to have, you know, the. The bass, you need to have, like, all

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those instruments who play together. So we don't try to

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have too many instruments, you know, and sometimes we just going to play

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the saxophone. For example, with

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our. We have a cuvette named Vivi 26, which is a

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beautiful blond de blanc. I would love to show you next time I see

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you, perhaps next week, because I'm going to California.

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But we have the Vivi 26, which is a blanc de blanc

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from one single person in

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Cremont. And the oldest vine is from

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1926. So you have this

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1. Age of those old

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vineyards is from 100 years,

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and we just takes the wine from just this

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parcel. So this is really the concept of terroir, which is

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very much normally what Burgundy is made

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from, not necessarily what champagne is made for, you know,

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and so, because. Sorry, I just go

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back to that because I think it's an interesting point. It is.

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Burgundy has been making wines for

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thousands of years, but in Burgundy, it used to be like,

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mostly like farmers, mostly like family

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would just have a small plot, you know, on the other side,

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in Borgen, in champagne, you know, champagne has been made.

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And you were showing me the book of Clicquot. Champagne has been made

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by, by talented entrepreneur, by business people,

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by business women, like vertical, by businessman, like

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moed. And those businessmen were really

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making big brand, you know. And. But since

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30, I say, 20 years in champagne, there

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is a little revolutions we call the quiet

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revolutions with my brothers, which is kind of like the

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rise of like smaller growers,

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like celos, like agra pas

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or maison, or smaller maison with a character, with

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personality. Uh, we are making

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wine of champagne, which is a different approach

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than just making champagne. But we are making wine of

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champagne with personality, with steroid base, with

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character, with, uh, this idea of speaking

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about the land more than just creating

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a house style. Um, the big mezzo, they create a

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house style. Uh, when you're drinking bolanger,

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you're drinking the style of Boulanger is a style of.

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But when you're going to drink a small grass, you are going to

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drink the seasonality, you are going to drink the taste

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of these small parcel, the components of this. And

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almost like the interior ecosystem inside

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the terroir and the parcel, you know what I mean?

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You know, that is a fascinating description, and thank you for that,

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because

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the champagne industry is huge.

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The champagne, the French in general, but the champagne industry

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has done a great job of making one feel

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connected to their brand. And I showed you the Vuv clicot

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book. You know, there's a reason for that. She's, you know, she was an

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entrepreneur herself as well. You said that as business. Absolutely.

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Your cousin's brand, Tanger, Bolanger, Paul Roget, Charles Heidsig,

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Piper Heidsig, all these big brands, brands that

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consume so much of this shelf at the

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supermarche, are

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they competition? Because they are house

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styles. Like you're going to buy a bottle of Boulanger because you

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know that Boulanger tastes. I mean, let's talk about vous Clicquot for a

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second. They buy vous clicquot because that gold

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label sticks out of everybody's mind. And I don't think

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they necessarily are looking for the house brand. They're

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just looking at that label. And here you have this very unique,

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terroir driven wine. Do you consider the

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competition, besides the sheer volume of business

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they do as a beverage, do you consider them

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competition? I mean, you know, I'm not here to

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criticize no, I don't want you to.

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The big Maison are necessary because they drive very much.

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Also the champagne appellations. When I'm going to Japan, when

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I'm going to the US, when I'm going to China, when I'm going

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everywhere. It's true that the power of

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those big films like LVMH beyond, or

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even my microsine at ETA or Boulanger,

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they are so powerful and they

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bring the champagne appellations to become so famous,

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which is a good thing.

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What we are doing with my brothers, it's kind

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of more like a grower type of maison with

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terroir visions. It's a different vision, it's not the

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same type of competitions or war.

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The big maisons, they create a style which is a little bit more

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standardized. So people are buying a bottle of earth, click.

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Because they want, I believe in my point of view, they want to

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also feel the same type of

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expressions and the same feeling, which is something

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like also interesting, because, you know, they're looking for

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having stability in a standardized way. You

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know, we believe a bit the opposite

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with my brother, since perhaps burgundy side inside our

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blood who's talking where we believe that

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every year are very different. And we are very

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interested to see that the 2012 for us is super

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different from 2008. Or when you

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speak about certain type of terroir, you're going to get something

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very different. And it's true that when you mix all

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the terroir and when you make millions of bottles, you create

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more something standardized. And sometimes it can be very good. Also,

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I'm so impressed by the quality sometimes of some great

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house champagne because they have been able, even making

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millions of bottles, but still able to keep like a very

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high quality of a standardized type of product.

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We really want to be the voice of the terroir. We want to be the

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voice of the seasonality. 2012, for us, for

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example, we had a very cold winter, under 20

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degree. We had a very warm early

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spring, so we had a flowering way too

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early. Then we lost 70% of the

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grade because we got frost. So the style of our

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2012 is full of pensions, precisions,

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because of this very hard struggling year, you know. But this is what

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we like to put in front, the

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typical and the diversity of the expressions

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of the terroir and the seasonality. It's so interesting

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because I think I brought

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it up a little bit before, but the idea of the clicquots and the

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boulangers and the Paul Rogers, they still feel

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pretty unique. Like, if I go to the market, and they're in the locked

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cabinet. But when it comes to the market, the

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00:15:12,864 --> 00:15:16,576
market, they are much like the regular brands

239
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,166
of Cabernet Sauvignon that we have on the shelf in LA. And so

240
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:24,078
that's what fascinates me about the industry of champagne. It's able to

241
00:15:24,126 --> 00:15:27,142
elevate its position in the consumer's

242
00:15:27,198 --> 00:15:30,990
perception. And justifiably, I'm not saying it shouldn't be because

243
00:15:31,022 --> 00:15:34,726
it's such a wonderful beverage, but it's just interesting that

244
00:15:34,750 --> 00:15:38,094
the mainstream, huge houses still feel

245
00:15:38,174 --> 00:15:41,302
like something unique and

246
00:15:41,398 --> 00:15:45,182
private when you are really are unique and private. And

247
00:15:45,198 --> 00:15:48,984
I can't wait to taste the wines. Who's a supplier in, in

248
00:15:49,024 --> 00:15:52,744
southern California, but. Oh, you said Boisson. No, also French

249
00:15:52,784 --> 00:15:56,160
du Mar, which is. A supplier of

250
00:15:56,192 --> 00:15:59,560
Frere Jean Frere. So Frere Jean Frere. We

251
00:15:59,632 --> 00:16:03,324
have an importer based in Texas named BCI,

252
00:16:04,384 --> 00:16:07,432
and he's doing a really good job. We work after with

253
00:16:07,488 --> 00:16:11,240
Winebow. I don't know if you know wine bow. We worked

254
00:16:11,272 --> 00:16:14,950
with wine bow. He's kind of like a, one of our main distributor also in

255
00:16:14,982 --> 00:16:17,674
us. They're doing a great job.

256
00:16:20,894 --> 00:16:24,662
And this kind of leads into this next question, which is really fascinating to me,

257
00:16:24,678 --> 00:16:28,470
because you sent me your schedule, and I'm, like, looking at,

258
00:16:28,502 --> 00:16:31,234
oh, my gosh, this is a whirlwind

259
00:16:32,214 --> 00:16:35,902
to get the name out. And there's something unique in

260
00:16:35,918 --> 00:16:39,742
the industry right now, and because I'm retired, to the extent that

261
00:16:39,758 --> 00:16:43,034
I don't sell wine every day anymore, I'm on a lot of

262
00:16:43,154 --> 00:16:46,658
consulting jobs to help people understand the landscape of

263
00:16:46,786 --> 00:16:49,914
wine and distilled spirits in America and alone

264
00:16:49,954 --> 00:16:53,594
California. And, you know, it's tough right now all

265
00:16:53,634 --> 00:16:56,974
over, and it seems like

266
00:16:57,674 --> 00:17:00,934
what you're going to do on this next trip is critical

267
00:17:01,594 --> 00:17:05,362
to the marketing of your brand, that you are in front

268
00:17:05,418 --> 00:17:09,010
of the people and pouring the glasses and having this

269
00:17:09,042 --> 00:17:12,576
conversation. Yes, yes. You know,

270
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,088
it's super important. You have to meet the client.

271
00:17:16,256 --> 00:17:19,784
It's a people industry, you know, the wine world. So

272
00:17:19,944 --> 00:17:23,432
it's all about meeting the people. And we get so

273
00:17:23,488 --> 00:17:26,904
disconnected, I feel with, like, the

274
00:17:27,064 --> 00:17:30,784
COVID and all of that, it's super important to really, like,

275
00:17:30,864 --> 00:17:34,640
reconnect, to meet the clients, to tell the story, you know,

276
00:17:34,672 --> 00:17:38,348
because, and especially because we also have this new

277
00:17:38,396 --> 00:17:42,100
story, which is pretty fascinating with french bloom,

278
00:17:42,292 --> 00:17:46,052
where we try to make kind of like the first complex

279
00:17:46,108 --> 00:17:49,572
alcohol free wine, which is a very

280
00:17:49,668 --> 00:17:53,252
difficult quest, but also very challenging, but very

281
00:17:53,308 --> 00:17:56,980
interesting. So, you know, I want to

282
00:17:57,012 --> 00:18:00,380
discuss. I want to go back a little bit. We're going to talk about fresh

283
00:18:00,412 --> 00:18:04,050
Enfre, and then we want to talk french bloom because is a very important

284
00:18:04,122 --> 00:18:07,402
segment of our industry and I want people to hear the story. But, you know,

285
00:18:07,418 --> 00:18:10,906
you talked about Napoleon's army and I love

286
00:18:11,050 --> 00:18:14,746
stories of Napoleon. I've, I've studied him and I've read some of the

287
00:18:14,770 --> 00:18:18,506
books and here I haven't seen

288
00:18:18,530 --> 00:18:22,314
the movie. Well, movie is not that bad. I think, I think it's pretty

289
00:18:22,354 --> 00:18:26,162
good. I like Joaquin Phoenix. I like the

290
00:18:26,178 --> 00:18:29,874
scots. I was pretty impressed. I know I'm a big Napoleon fan, so of course

291
00:18:29,914 --> 00:18:33,546
I watch the movie. But did it jive with what you

292
00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:37,322
learned in history class in school? Yeah, kind

293
00:18:37,378 --> 00:18:40,362
of. I mean, it's, it's a little bit more like a big american

294
00:18:40,458 --> 00:18:43,562
productions, but it's not that bad on the scene.

295
00:18:43,738 --> 00:18:47,546
It's, the scene of the battles are pretty amazing. I

296
00:18:47,570 --> 00:18:51,274
think Joaquin Phoenix is amazing. So I'll watch,

297
00:18:51,314 --> 00:18:55,054
I'm going to watch it because I, I just got done with a video of

298
00:18:57,034 --> 00:19:00,738
how he became to, it was a small, it was part of my french

299
00:19:00,786 --> 00:19:04,530
lessons. You know, it was cool about learning a language and I learned

300
00:19:04,562 --> 00:19:08,134
the language because my father spoke. But you must

301
00:19:08,714 --> 00:19:12,330
immerse yourself in the culture to understand the

302
00:19:12,362 --> 00:19:15,786
language. Absolutely. I mean, that's why these books like Louve

303
00:19:15,810 --> 00:19:19,618
Clicquot. And I'm going to ask you a question later on. A french french

304
00:19:19,666 --> 00:19:23,394
doctor that came up with wine as a cure for most maladies.

305
00:19:23,434 --> 00:19:27,134
But it's so important to learn the culture of

306
00:19:27,254 --> 00:19:30,894
where you're trying to speak, so you have the feeling of it. So

307
00:19:30,974 --> 00:19:34,686
that's why Napoleon has risen to. I learned english thanks to my

308
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:38,230
wife, you know, because before, I don't say my English perfect today,

309
00:19:38,302 --> 00:19:41,902
but I have been able to learn by going to Chicago

310
00:19:41,958 --> 00:19:44,994
and to be with my nose.

311
00:19:45,974 --> 00:19:49,074
So the Frere, Jean Frere,

312
00:19:49,854 --> 00:19:53,168
how many generations ago? And is there any

313
00:19:53,216 --> 00:19:56,912
relationship to military accoutrements today? I mean,

314
00:19:56,928 --> 00:20:00,160
it's just that was your great great grandfather or great great great

315
00:20:00,192 --> 00:20:03,704
grandfather. Yeah. So long story short,

316
00:20:03,864 --> 00:20:06,776
there were two brothers named Louis and Georges

317
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,144
Vergent. They used to come from a family of

318
00:20:10,184 --> 00:20:12,848
blacksmiths. In

319
00:20:12,896 --> 00:20:16,624
1780, Louis went

320
00:20:16,664 --> 00:20:20,320
to spy the British. They were like entrepreneur, you know, they were, no,

321
00:20:20,392 --> 00:20:23,696
they were not noble or anything. They were just entrepreneur.

322
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,344
And Louis went to England to

323
00:20:27,384 --> 00:20:31,136
spy the British for three years to learn about

324
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,048
the technique to make good cannons. Because the

325
00:20:35,056 --> 00:20:38,352
problem is the french cannons at this time, they were kind of

326
00:20:38,408 --> 00:20:42,064
exploding on the battlefield. And the British were

327
00:20:42,104 --> 00:20:45,890
quite advanced in terms of fact, uh, technique to make good

328
00:20:45,922 --> 00:20:49,122
cannons. So. And he learned from the British

329
00:20:49,178 --> 00:20:52,698
to, to, uh, to make good cannons. And he came back

330
00:20:52,826 --> 00:20:56,490
with a lot of know how. And then they create the two

331
00:20:56,522 --> 00:20:59,174
brothers. They create, like, the, the cannons

332
00:20:59,714 --> 00:21:03,314
company, and they became one of the biggest supplier

333
00:21:03,434 --> 00:21:07,082
of cannons for Napoleon. Uh, so, you know,

334
00:21:07,138 --> 00:21:10,826
this is pretty interesting stories. And because we

335
00:21:10,850 --> 00:21:14,012
are two bosses, you know, when we started on Maison in

336
00:21:14,028 --> 00:21:17,700
2005, we took back the name and we took back

337
00:21:17,732 --> 00:21:21,316
also the cannons that we put now on our champagne.

338
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:24,700
What a great story. And I have this theory,

339
00:21:24,812 --> 00:21:28,052
anyway, about terroir and

340
00:21:28,108 --> 00:21:31,596
wine. These stories contribute to

341
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:35,332
what's in the bottle, whether it's with cannon making

342
00:21:35,428 --> 00:21:38,660
or like, my last name is Calam Carian, and it means it's

343
00:21:38,732 --> 00:21:42,554
armenian, one who etches silver

344
00:21:42,714 --> 00:21:46,282
and tradition. It's part of my family's history. And

345
00:21:46,298 --> 00:21:49,578
so I think knowing those stories and that

346
00:21:49,626 --> 00:21:53,354
history, you know, it's a philosophical approach to what you're doing.

347
00:21:53,394 --> 00:21:56,706
I mean, how can that, how can those, how can that history and

348
00:21:56,810 --> 00:22:00,626
your background not be in the bottle? I mean, how can that

349
00:22:00,650 --> 00:22:03,930
not happen? It's impossible because it makes who you

350
00:22:03,962 --> 00:22:07,766
are. And so, um, why

351
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:11,470
then, in 2005, did you decide with your brothers

352
00:22:11,622 --> 00:22:14,794
that you would get into making champagne?

353
00:22:15,094 --> 00:22:18,846
And I understand the name source, but, you

354
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:22,470
know, this is, this is a tough racket. Yeah, it is.

355
00:22:22,582 --> 00:22:26,246
Cheese, my friend, he's very tough. To create a new. Everybody always agrees on

356
00:22:26,270 --> 00:22:30,038
that, especially when you decide to make,

357
00:22:30,086 --> 00:22:33,694
like, champagne with all the, the

358
00:22:33,734 --> 00:22:37,382
long discipline we put in place, which is we age our champagne

359
00:22:37,438 --> 00:22:41,198
from five to eight years minimum. So that's even

360
00:22:41,246 --> 00:22:45,070
more complicated. Doing mostly grand cru, Premier

361
00:22:45,102 --> 00:22:48,782
Cru, that's a little bit more evil. So we start in

362
00:22:48,798 --> 00:22:52,434
2005, because at this time

363
00:22:54,814 --> 00:22:58,414
we met chef de car. We met a guy

364
00:22:58,454 --> 00:23:02,054
named DJ Pierson, which is a wine grower from Aviz.

365
00:23:02,674 --> 00:23:06,466
He's a fifth generation wine grower from Aviz and very

366
00:23:06,530 --> 00:23:10,254
talented grower, good guy also.

367
00:23:11,474 --> 00:23:14,970
And like most of those wine growers, he was like

368
00:23:15,002 --> 00:23:18,282
sending patio his grapes to some of

369
00:23:18,338 --> 00:23:21,690
the, of other big champagne house, like

370
00:23:21,722 --> 00:23:25,242
Boulanger, like, and all of that. And we really

371
00:23:25,298 --> 00:23:28,740
convinced him to join us. We also

372
00:23:28,812 --> 00:23:32,544
had some beautiful vineyards from our family.

373
00:23:33,524 --> 00:23:37,348
And so we decided to get us to go together and start

374
00:23:37,436 --> 00:23:40,428
at the beginning, like a small

375
00:23:40,556 --> 00:23:44,388
artisanal productions for family and friends.

376
00:23:44,556 --> 00:23:48,020
That was really the idea to create like, a boutique

377
00:23:48,172 --> 00:23:51,812
specialized mostly for us at the beginning to say, okay, we're going to

378
00:23:51,828 --> 00:23:55,646
make beautiful champagne more in like, in like, in a

379
00:23:55,670 --> 00:23:59,366
confidential way. And we, from that, you know,

380
00:23:59,390 --> 00:24:01,714
we start our first bottle in 2012,

381
00:24:02,974 --> 00:24:06,126
and we went from like 20,000 bottles in

382
00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:09,926
2012 that we sold, and now we make

383
00:24:10,030 --> 00:24:13,550
and, and sell about 180,000

384
00:24:13,622 --> 00:24:16,754
bottles per year. So it's still, wow, pretty

385
00:24:17,334 --> 00:24:21,142
confidential. But it's a good size. You know, we don't want to

386
00:24:21,158 --> 00:24:24,938
go to too fast or too big. We want to kind of like

387
00:24:24,986 --> 00:24:28,746
stay artisanal boutique true to what

388
00:24:28,770 --> 00:24:32,210
we like to do. And that was kind of like this idea

389
00:24:32,242 --> 00:24:35,414
of. You know,

390
00:24:35,914 --> 00:24:39,162
you brought up the champagne

391
00:24:39,258 --> 00:24:43,058
houses. You know, it's business, right? I mean, this, I

392
00:24:43,066 --> 00:24:46,602
have this weird romantic thing that wine shouldn't have a profit built into it so

393
00:24:46,618 --> 00:24:49,850
that we can only get and produce the best stuff that could the earth will

394
00:24:49,882 --> 00:24:53,386
give us. And I think it's really impressive that you

395
00:24:53,410 --> 00:24:57,138
guys are going after that. Going after what? The terroir, that

396
00:24:57,186 --> 00:25:00,362
if it's a bad vintage, as far as weather and terroir is concerned, that's what

397
00:25:00,378 --> 00:25:03,778
it is. And so you're creating, you're expressing that

398
00:25:03,826 --> 00:25:07,506
point. It's certainly palatable wine. It's good wine.

399
00:25:07,650 --> 00:25:11,386
I tasted some chateau Lagrange the other day, and it was a couple of bad,

400
00:25:11,490 --> 00:25:15,330
not very good vintages for them. But, boy, you get to

401
00:25:15,362 --> 00:25:18,928
taste what that means. And I think that's really fascinating about, about wine

402
00:25:19,016 --> 00:25:22,744
and now champagne. But, you know, champagne, the region

403
00:25:22,784 --> 00:25:25,416
of champagne has been sort of an

404
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,856
entrepreneurial, business

405
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,164
driven arm of the french wine business.

406
00:25:33,504 --> 00:25:35,844
Yes, yes, of course. I mean,

407
00:25:37,144 --> 00:25:40,904
sometimes my father told us, like, it's, it

408
00:25:40,944 --> 00:25:44,644
is financially wrong what we're doing, you know, because we, we,

409
00:25:44,684 --> 00:25:48,444
we aging so much. He says, sometimes you should do like everyone

410
00:25:48,524 --> 00:25:52,228
in champagne, you just age two years. Your, your,

411
00:25:52,276 --> 00:25:56,108
your wine, or sometimes 15 months uses minimum

412
00:25:56,156 --> 00:25:59,940
requirement. Why are you aging five to eight years? Why? You just

413
00:25:59,972 --> 00:26:03,628
do golf club, what you do? And we say, daddy,

414
00:26:03,676 --> 00:26:06,916
we do that for the long run. We do that for our kids, actually, you

415
00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:10,684
know. Yeah. Because it takes a lot of

416
00:26:10,724 --> 00:26:14,416
time to build a champagne house. It takes a lot

417
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,816
of time to create, you know, all the reputations and all of

418
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,592
that. But, yes, it is. It could be a

419
00:26:21,608 --> 00:26:25,320
good business when it's, of course, the

420
00:26:25,352 --> 00:26:28,764
big house. I'm making a lot of profits. And

421
00:26:30,704 --> 00:26:34,424
it's not necessarily easy because you always have also

422
00:26:34,504 --> 00:26:38,246
this kind of, like, gambling aspect of sometimes you can

423
00:26:38,270 --> 00:26:41,886
do really bad vintage and sometimes you can have, like,

424
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:45,374
difficulties. So, you know,

425
00:26:45,494 --> 00:26:49,254
but we, we've been able to pass all those difficulties.

426
00:26:49,334 --> 00:26:53,074
We've been able to also grow. And we really

427
00:26:53,614 --> 00:26:57,366
received some great rating. We received some 97

428
00:26:57,430 --> 00:27:01,230
from decanter, some 18 from Genesis Robinson, which is

429
00:27:01,262 --> 00:27:04,896
really great. But you know, it's a. It's a really

430
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,648
long, long fighting, long

431
00:27:08,696 --> 00:27:12,256
struggling or so because you. You have to build the house. You have to make

432
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,016
sure that. But it is my, my life

433
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,896
story actually is definitely making this sompan house with my

434
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,496
two brothers. So there's a lot of fashions. We are also

435
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,792
creating a small hotel with like ten rooms now in

436
00:27:26,808 --> 00:27:30,268
Aviz. So we slowly

437
00:27:30,436 --> 00:27:34,236
and surely build the house. Will

438
00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:37,956
the rooms be ready by May? Yes, sir. If,

439
00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:41,428
you know, honestly, if you come in May, we love to welcome you.

440
00:27:41,596 --> 00:27:45,356
The hotel. The first part of the hotel will be

441
00:27:45,380 --> 00:27:49,020
ready and so we will have our first type of room. So

442
00:27:49,132 --> 00:27:52,964
please be our guest. That's very nice. We're going to Piemonte,

443
00:27:53,004 --> 00:27:56,444
we're going to. And then we're going to drop into Monaco, the grand

444
00:27:56,484 --> 00:27:58,988
Prix, and then we're going to head to Bordeaux, and then we're going to head

445
00:27:58,996 --> 00:28:01,228
to Paris and then we're going to do day trips. But that's not brought it

446
00:28:01,236 --> 00:28:05,084
up. I was just teasing. I love Piemonte. Also not

447
00:28:05,124 --> 00:28:08,972
been. I'm looking forward to that amazing place. I read there's a

448
00:28:08,988 --> 00:28:12,748
book you probably heard of. It's called Wine and War. The clad strip.

449
00:28:12,796 --> 00:28:16,524
I read that really good. Okay. And Mister misses cladstrup,

450
00:28:16,564 --> 00:28:20,372
by the way, live in Paris in the 16th district. We had

451
00:28:20,388 --> 00:28:23,892
dinner with them not too long ago. And you know, there was this

452
00:28:23,988 --> 00:28:27,494
one. Not wonderful. That's a bad term. There's this

453
00:28:27,614 --> 00:28:31,406
crazy story of the requirements of the Nazis during the

454
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:35,150
war, which was a standing order of 1 million bottles of

455
00:28:35,182 --> 00:28:38,958
champagne a month for the Third Reich. I mean, crazy

456
00:28:39,006 --> 00:28:42,838
stuff, right? And there's stories of. And

457
00:28:42,846 --> 00:28:46,142
I brought this up because I'm leading you into this conversation. There's stories

458
00:28:46,198 --> 00:28:49,734
of. I guess they're entrepreneurs,

459
00:28:49,894 --> 00:28:53,354
you know, providing the Nazis the crap. Unless

460
00:28:53,394 --> 00:28:57,018
you honestly told you this story.

461
00:28:57,066 --> 00:29:00,594
No, no, I just read it in the book and they don't talk about any

462
00:29:00,634 --> 00:29:03,894
people. And then I read in your website because. Because

463
00:29:04,354 --> 00:29:08,130
the brother of my grandfather, Francois

464
00:29:08,162 --> 00:29:11,626
Tetraj, during the second world war, he was really giving

465
00:29:11,690 --> 00:29:15,418
like really bad champagne to the Nazis. And he went to jail

466
00:29:15,466 --> 00:29:18,954
because of that. No, he went to jail like get

467
00:29:18,994 --> 00:29:22,730
arrested. It's my grandfather who saved him because he was a. He was

468
00:29:22,762 --> 00:29:25,534
really trying to imprison such that.

469
00:29:26,314 --> 00:29:30,146
Which is almost. It's a great story. And I read it on your side,

470
00:29:30,170 --> 00:29:33,570
I think. But I knew. But they didn't. The classrooms don't

471
00:29:33,602 --> 00:29:37,306
mention. Maybe they do, Francois Tanger. Maybe they do mention him. But anyway,

472
00:29:37,410 --> 00:29:41,146
I thought, okay, this is kind of like being part of the

473
00:29:41,170 --> 00:29:44,698
french resistance, right? Like, well, I'm not going to fight them and I'm not going

474
00:29:44,706 --> 00:29:47,934
to turn anybody in, but I can send them

475
00:29:48,394 --> 00:29:52,242
the lousy wine. I

476
00:29:52,258 --> 00:29:55,574
mean, you know, they were kind of flagged.

477
00:29:56,034 --> 00:29:59,402
Yeah, they were. They were. I mean, my. My grandfather lost

478
00:29:59,458 --> 00:30:02,610
his brothers fighting the

479
00:30:02,642 --> 00:30:06,410
Germans. He was, like the most brilliant guy

480
00:30:06,442 --> 00:30:09,694
of the family named Michel Detergent. And

481
00:30:10,114 --> 00:30:13,722
he just graduated from polytechnic at 80 years old.

482
00:30:13,858 --> 00:30:17,358
He was. He was. He was supposed to be kind of like

483
00:30:17,406 --> 00:30:20,634
the big boss of the family, and

484
00:30:21,854 --> 00:30:25,630
he graduates from this in the wrong time. And so

485
00:30:25,662 --> 00:30:29,350
he had to defend, because he became an officer immediately, and

486
00:30:29,382 --> 00:30:31,954
so he had to defend the bridge of Paris

487
00:30:32,854 --> 00:30:36,654
with regiments of soldiers from Senegal, and they

488
00:30:36,694 --> 00:30:40,478
all get killed by the Germans, you know? And so

489
00:30:40,606 --> 00:30:44,046
that was last CEO of the family. And so I think this is

490
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:47,684
why that his brothers were really trying to

491
00:30:47,764 --> 00:30:51,612
fight against the Germans by giving them a really bad champagne

492
00:30:51,668 --> 00:30:55,452
to get their revenge, you know? I

493
00:30:55,468 --> 00:30:59,052
think it's great. It's like a hero. He's like a hero, you know, champagne hero.

494
00:30:59,108 --> 00:31:02,628
Is this history been written down? Have you? Did anybody sit

495
00:31:02,716 --> 00:31:06,300
with your grandparents or your great grandparents and say, look, tell me the

496
00:31:06,332 --> 00:31:09,264
stories? Yeah, they just handed them

497
00:31:10,244 --> 00:31:13,504
this generation since almost all gone now, but

498
00:31:13,804 --> 00:31:17,340
we still have book. And I would love to give

499
00:31:17,372 --> 00:31:20,924
you a book that has been written by my

500
00:31:21,084 --> 00:31:24,852
great, the brother of my grandfather, Claude

501
00:31:24,868 --> 00:31:28,436
Tetager, which I really love. He was an amazing guy. He was like the

502
00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:32,308
kinty suit of the family. And he was always drinking his glass of champagne

503
00:31:32,356 --> 00:31:36,052
until he's 95 years old. Perfect. And he writes a very

504
00:31:36,108 --> 00:31:39,508
good book to explain this story called the pleasure

505
00:31:39,556 --> 00:31:43,190
by. I really invite you to read this. It was really

506
00:31:43,222 --> 00:31:46,794
interesting. It's all about the story. I would love to read it.

507
00:31:47,094 --> 00:31:50,474
I've even been reading some french books. It takes me a little longer,

508
00:31:51,174 --> 00:31:54,886
but I do get them done. It's a very important part of the

509
00:31:54,910 --> 00:31:57,134
history. And I think it goes back to what I was saying earlier as well,

510
00:31:57,174 --> 00:32:00,634
that those stories and those histories handed down

511
00:32:02,054 --> 00:32:05,822
have to provide part of the philosophy of the wines that

512
00:32:05,838 --> 00:32:09,008
you're making today. I had Mae Elian

513
00:32:09,056 --> 00:32:12,656
Lancassange on the show, and she was 15 when the

514
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,832
Nazis came into her parents chateau, Chateau Comtesse de

515
00:32:15,848 --> 00:32:19,364
Lalande and watched them shoot it up.

516
00:32:20,544 --> 00:32:24,240
Her uncle was in the resistance. They

517
00:32:24,272 --> 00:32:28,112
housed three jewish families for three months and then got them

518
00:32:28,128 --> 00:32:31,976
in Argentina through the resistance. I mean, these things, I think, are.

519
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,874
It's actually part of what makes the french wine world

520
00:32:36,374 --> 00:32:39,750
different than the rest? You know, American has great

521
00:32:39,782 --> 00:32:43,454
wines. Argentina make great wine. Chile makes great

522
00:32:43,494 --> 00:32:47,214
wines. I mean, Australia, they make great wines. But man, the

523
00:32:47,254 --> 00:32:50,834
history behind these stories, I think are what set

524
00:32:51,534 --> 00:32:55,342
France apart. I have a romantic view of France as

525
00:32:55,358 --> 00:32:58,870
well because it protects its butters and protects its cheeses and protects its

526
00:32:58,902 --> 00:33:02,290
wines. And of course there are people that think the new world is more fun

527
00:33:02,322 --> 00:33:06,094
and exciting, but whatever, that's not our argument today. You are.

528
00:33:06,514 --> 00:33:09,974
One of the things that

529
00:33:11,474 --> 00:33:15,314
bothers me, it irks me is the

530
00:33:15,474 --> 00:33:19,138
microscopic trends in the wine world. Wine has been around for thousands of

531
00:33:19,186 --> 00:33:22,562
years. As you mentioned, we already know in Armenia there's a 6000 year old

532
00:33:22,578 --> 00:33:26,218
winery, the dukes bourbon were making

533
00:33:26,266 --> 00:33:29,538
wines, you know, who knows when, 2000 years ago.

534
00:33:29,666 --> 00:33:33,066
But there's always this sort of

535
00:33:33,170 --> 00:33:36,634
contemporary things that go on. But non

536
00:33:36,674 --> 00:33:40,058
alcoholic wines have been around a long time. I mean, I've tasted them

537
00:33:40,106 --> 00:33:43,946
probably 25 years ago. Oh really? Oh, yeah. And they

538
00:33:43,970 --> 00:33:47,666
were not good. And I'm fascinated

539
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:51,050
to see online socially as well as in

540
00:33:51,082 --> 00:33:54,502
Google, the french bloom brand, which I

541
00:33:54,638 --> 00:33:58,350
is now your brand or your wife's brand. And sure, how you're the,

542
00:33:58,382 --> 00:34:02,086
wait a minute, you are the CEO of French Bloom. What does

543
00:34:02,110 --> 00:34:05,822
she call herself? She's a co founder. With

544
00:34:05,918 --> 00:34:09,710
the co founder. Okay. She's also CMO, so she's taking care

545
00:34:09,742 --> 00:34:13,462
of like marketing and all of that. But yeah, tell

546
00:34:13,478 --> 00:34:16,554
me how that brand. Came about in your brain.

547
00:34:18,584 --> 00:34:22,344
So the brand french boom came when my wife was

548
00:34:22,384 --> 00:34:26,232
pregnant. My wife was working for the mission guide, actually. So it's

549
00:34:26,248 --> 00:34:30,024
funny, an american, she was working for the mission guy for

550
00:34:30,104 --> 00:34:33,284
almost ten years in Paris, you know. And

551
00:34:33,704 --> 00:34:37,408
so when she was pregnant in 2019, she kind of find

552
00:34:37,456 --> 00:34:41,056
like herself a little bit rejected from the party. And she

553
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,736
actually married like a champagne guy. So she loves

554
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,354
champagne. And, you know, and so

555
00:34:49,254 --> 00:34:52,966
that was kind of the start of the thinking. And

556
00:34:52,990 --> 00:34:56,742
then from that we got kind of locked down

557
00:34:56,798 --> 00:35:00,598
because of the COVID So from this time

558
00:35:00,726 --> 00:35:04,270
I've been able to think also and we've

559
00:35:04,302 --> 00:35:08,150
been thinking about trying to do

560
00:35:08,182 --> 00:35:11,926
the challenge of experiencing and trying to use all

561
00:35:11,950 --> 00:35:15,536
the know how we have in champagne and trying to

562
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,644
mix up with innovations and try to

563
00:35:19,384 --> 00:35:22,684
make like a good alcohol free wine.

564
00:35:23,144 --> 00:35:26,776
The problem, as you say, very well, is most of those alcohol free

565
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,648
wine are pretty bad and disappointing for one

566
00:35:30,696 --> 00:35:34,200
main reasons. Most of the time, it's always the same

567
00:35:34,312 --> 00:35:37,848
trap people were taking. Just

568
00:35:37,896 --> 00:35:41,004
like a normal wine, wine which is made

569
00:35:41,824 --> 00:35:45,160
to make wine and not a

570
00:35:45,192 --> 00:35:48,856
wine to create an alcohol free wine. And

571
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,520
so all the entire visions we're developing with french

572
00:35:52,552 --> 00:35:55,884
bloom is to really to rethink totally

573
00:35:56,504 --> 00:36:00,160
about the way you make an alcohol free wine. And

574
00:36:00,192 --> 00:36:03,816
so you have to really rethink totally the

575
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,652
vinifications from the beginning to the end. And this is

576
00:36:07,768 --> 00:36:11,220
perhaps, I think we are one of the only company doing

577
00:36:11,292 --> 00:36:14,644
releases, which is we don't just

578
00:36:14,684 --> 00:36:18,316
dealize any random wine trying to see

579
00:36:18,340 --> 00:36:22,092
what's happening. We're really making from the harvest. So, for

580
00:36:22,108 --> 00:36:25,828
example, we do the harvest two weeks before everyone, we go to Languedoc

581
00:36:25,876 --> 00:36:29,652
to make french do, because champagne is not made at all to make avocado

582
00:36:29,668 --> 00:36:32,796
free wine. But we find our own land in

583
00:36:32,820 --> 00:36:36,114
Languedoc, which is kind of like rebuilding your own

584
00:36:36,194 --> 00:36:39,554
AOC or own cahills. I don't know how you say

585
00:36:39,594 --> 00:36:43,090
AOC in English. Appalachian

586
00:36:43,202 --> 00:36:46,994
appellation. And so we're building our own appellations currently

587
00:36:47,074 --> 00:36:50,414
in long dock, which is not a long dock wine, which is different.

588
00:36:51,074 --> 00:36:54,530
And so we rediscover after

589
00:36:54,602 --> 00:36:58,394
four years of R and D, and we are constantly doing

590
00:36:58,474 --> 00:37:02,084
research and development, trying to perfect, to

591
00:37:02,204 --> 00:37:05,972
improve. You know, we are the v eight right now on the

592
00:37:05,988 --> 00:37:09,744
blanc, on the rose, we starting our first alcohol free vintage.

593
00:37:10,724 --> 00:37:13,948
But we realize that we have

594
00:37:13,996 --> 00:37:17,732
to exaggerate all the components

595
00:37:17,788 --> 00:37:21,020
of the vinifications, because when you do the d

596
00:37:21,052 --> 00:37:24,628
alkalizations, you lose almost 60%

597
00:37:24,796 --> 00:37:28,396
of the aroma. So the entire game

598
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:31,744
we are playing is to exaggerate.

599
00:37:33,164 --> 00:37:36,644
We age the wine in oak. We try to re acidify

600
00:37:36,724 --> 00:37:40,012
them using some technique we have in burgundy or in

601
00:37:40,028 --> 00:37:43,772
champagne with acid tactic. And the challenge is to do that

602
00:37:43,908 --> 00:37:47,504
with a wine totally organic, without sulfites. And so

603
00:37:48,404 --> 00:37:51,904
in a natural way, super important for us.

604
00:37:54,964 --> 00:37:58,652
We do the RS, for example, two weeks before. Why? Because we

605
00:37:58,668 --> 00:38:02,484
can get more acidity. And the good thing is, in long

606
00:38:02,524 --> 00:38:06,156
dock you can still do this and still have a high level of

607
00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:08,984
falcon. We give more shoulder

608
00:38:09,724 --> 00:38:13,476
to be able to handle and support the

609
00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:17,224
alkalizations when we lose about 60% of the hour. Again,

610
00:38:17,824 --> 00:38:21,584
I suppose from the early days of non

611
00:38:21,624 --> 00:38:25,472
alcoholic wine, which were really just, you know, there was a, I'm

612
00:38:25,488 --> 00:38:29,112
trying to think of when it was. There was a, there was a diet

613
00:38:29,208 --> 00:38:32,856
that swept the United States called the Scarsdale diet, I'm thinking

614
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,128
seventies, late seventies. And he

615
00:38:36,256 --> 00:38:39,808
purported, look, you can go to a party and have non alcoholic wine. You can

616
00:38:39,816 --> 00:38:42,336
go to a party and have a soda water with a lime instead of a,

617
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,596
you know, a cocktail. And this how you're going to lose weight. And I think

618
00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:48,864
it's about that time that these things were being sort of thought through.

619
00:38:49,204 --> 00:38:52,916
But I have to imagine the technologies are

620
00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:56,108
completely different today, and that you are testing

621
00:38:56,196 --> 00:38:59,956
ideas, because I guess, I suppose the idea is you

622
00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:03,540
want the wine to taste as bonafide as

623
00:39:03,572 --> 00:39:06,824
possible, as regular as possible, as not

624
00:39:07,884 --> 00:39:11,724
something that you have to sort of swallow and make sure you

625
00:39:11,764 --> 00:39:15,446
drink because you need to, but you actually want to. Yeah.

626
00:39:15,590 --> 00:39:18,514
You want to enjoy it, you want to taste it, you want to feel it.

627
00:39:19,094 --> 00:39:22,034
You know, it's kind of like a blasphemer, what we're doing.

628
00:39:22,974 --> 00:39:26,126
And there is, when we start that in France, at the

629
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:29,446
beginning, I saw, I was, we were really afraid to be

630
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:33,118
lepidate, you know, because in such a wine culture

631
00:39:33,166 --> 00:39:36,774
world, and actually it's all our number one market, and then it's

632
00:39:36,814 --> 00:39:40,386
us, our number two market, and us is becoming our number one market

633
00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:43,922
this year, but which is super interesting to

634
00:39:44,018 --> 00:39:47,458
realize that there is a big market

635
00:39:47,546 --> 00:39:50,734
need. And this market need didn't really exist

636
00:39:51,194 --> 00:39:54,914
before, but now alcohol free beer are

637
00:39:54,954 --> 00:39:58,786
becoming almost 20% of the beer sold. You

638
00:39:58,810 --> 00:40:01,654
have this really big

639
00:40:02,074 --> 00:40:05,578
shift in terms of consumption also with

640
00:40:05,666 --> 00:40:09,160
Genc, who consumes 30% alcohol and all

641
00:40:09,192 --> 00:40:12,416
that. But the most important part of it

642
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,224
is we are not against alcohol. You know, I make

643
00:40:16,264 --> 00:40:19,936
wine, and the way we make french bloom. The idea

644
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,484
is to say we want to address

645
00:40:22,864 --> 00:40:25,844
propositions for plexi drinkers

646
00:40:26,624 --> 00:40:30,280
in order for them to be able to go

647
00:40:30,352 --> 00:40:34,040
from sometimes some wine, champagne, but sometimes they don't

648
00:40:34,072 --> 00:40:37,840
necessarily want to drink, so they drink french bloom. And so our

649
00:40:37,872 --> 00:40:41,600
visions, 80% of our customers are actually flexi

650
00:40:41,632 --> 00:40:45,376
drinkers. And that's what the biggest learning, you know,

651
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,024
we realize people want to moderate.

652
00:40:49,104 --> 00:40:52,936
Sometimes when you have a copyright event, when you. When you. Even when you

653
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,284
go to a fancy or gastronomic restaurant,

654
00:40:57,304 --> 00:41:00,976
you cannot always drink alcohol. I wish, you know, but unfortunately,

655
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,868
you cannot just always drink alcohol. And the older you get,

656
00:41:04,996 --> 00:41:08,104
you have to also be careful sometimes. So

657
00:41:08,884 --> 00:41:12,292
one of our main quest is to say

658
00:41:12,348 --> 00:41:15,940
that if you get the pleasures and the

659
00:41:15,972 --> 00:41:19,588
complexity, is alcohol is the

660
00:41:19,636 --> 00:41:23,204
main reasons why you are going to drink a

661
00:41:23,244 --> 00:41:26,744
fine wine? Not necessarily, you know what I mean? So

662
00:41:27,644 --> 00:41:31,396
I had these discussions with some of my friends, and some of them are

663
00:41:31,420 --> 00:41:35,020
not happy about that. And I like to be challenged because I understand

664
00:41:35,092 --> 00:41:38,264
also. So it's quite a very innovative point of view,

665
00:41:38,604 --> 00:41:42,252
because some of my friends are coming from the wine world say, and I

666
00:41:42,268 --> 00:41:45,636
say, I said, perhaps one day we'd be able to recreate the

667
00:41:45,660 --> 00:41:49,212
equivalent of chassis moir and no

668
00:41:49,268 --> 00:41:52,964
chassis moishe require alcohol, and they're right. Yes.

669
00:41:53,004 --> 00:41:56,676
Chassis marche require alcohol to a food. Right.

670
00:41:56,820 --> 00:41:59,624
Yeah. And so

671
00:42:01,044 --> 00:42:04,664
it is a complex quest, but it's very interesting.

672
00:42:05,084 --> 00:42:08,596
I think that you're right on. I think

673
00:42:08,620 --> 00:42:12,332
that I love this term flexi drinker. I think it's important. We were in

674
00:42:12,348 --> 00:42:16,036
a trip last week in the east coast, and my wife, for the

675
00:42:16,060 --> 00:42:19,404
first time in our relationship in 37 years, she

676
00:42:19,484 --> 00:42:22,924
ordered a mock cocktail. And

677
00:42:23,044 --> 00:42:26,836
I'm like, hey, whatever. She didn't feel like having a drink. She wanted to feel

678
00:42:26,860 --> 00:42:30,376
like she was socializing, and so she ordered a mock

679
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,000
cocktail, and I'm like, okay, I get it. I totally get

680
00:42:34,032 --> 00:42:37,816
it. And I think you're on to that. I think you're onto

681
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,484
the idea that the complexity, the experience.

682
00:42:41,464 --> 00:42:44,684
It's champagne. It's sparkling. I get to experience

683
00:42:44,984 --> 00:42:48,816
a glass, a tulip glass, or whatever vessel they're using.

684
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,536
And the next time I'll have a glass of

685
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,372
frere. Jean Frere. Yes. We love to. We should have

686
00:42:56,388 --> 00:43:00,156
a glass of frozen fr together. So and

687
00:43:00,180 --> 00:43:03,980
so now, how, when you come to America, like, you got this trip in

688
00:43:04,012 --> 00:43:07,660
LA, and you're going to see people

689
00:43:07,772 --> 00:43:10,700
and your sisters doing it all the time. I see her all the time on

690
00:43:10,732 --> 00:43:14,108
Facebook and Instagram, everything. Are there

691
00:43:14,156 --> 00:43:17,860
initial objections to this idea from these people, or is everybody pretty much

692
00:43:17,892 --> 00:43:20,744
saying, yeah, you know what? I want to check this out, see what it's about

693
00:43:21,374 --> 00:43:25,198
for french bloom? Yes. Yeah. I think, you know, of course,

694
00:43:25,246 --> 00:43:29,046
you always have, when you have an innovation,

695
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:32,758
that what we're doing with a vintage blond de blanc alcohol, the first

696
00:43:32,806 --> 00:43:36,510
vintage alcohol free, when we age the wine in barrels, when

697
00:43:36,542 --> 00:43:40,262
we do all this work, and then we de alkalize the wine, of course, you

698
00:43:40,278 --> 00:43:43,514
know, every innovation would disrupt,

699
00:43:43,894 --> 00:43:47,456
like, a conservative industry, and

700
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,144
wine is extremely conservative in this thing. So,

701
00:43:51,184 --> 00:43:54,952
of course, we can get denigrates. Denigrates. Of course, we

702
00:43:54,968 --> 00:43:58,560
are going to be kind of criticized, and this is normal,

703
00:43:58,752 --> 00:44:02,004
and we find with that because this is part of

704
00:44:04,104 --> 00:44:07,644
the process. And when

705
00:44:08,264 --> 00:44:11,924
I did one of my events in ronching in Paris,

706
00:44:12,444 --> 00:44:16,184
there was a lot of journalists, and some really love it.

707
00:44:16,644 --> 00:44:20,164
I had one. I couldn't say from which

708
00:44:20,204 --> 00:44:23,556
journal, because I don't say anything, but he was very

709
00:44:23,740 --> 00:44:27,476
old school, you know, and he arrived at the testing with a big

710
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:31,184
t shirt, say, I love Beaujolais, you know, and I know that

711
00:44:32,604 --> 00:44:35,804
he was. At the second I saw him, you know, he was not happy about

712
00:44:35,844 --> 00:44:39,544
the concept, and. And I was fine with that because, you know,

713
00:44:39,584 --> 00:44:43,400
I was actually pretty happy about that because I appreciate criticize,

714
00:44:43,472 --> 00:44:47,312
and I find that we are in

715
00:44:47,328 --> 00:44:51,144
a quest. We're trying to. It is like

716
00:44:51,224 --> 00:44:54,928
almost like an alchemist quest, you know, we have to.

717
00:44:55,096 --> 00:44:58,920
But it is very, very interesting because there is a huge

718
00:44:58,952 --> 00:45:02,168
demand for that. People want now, when they don't

719
00:45:02,216 --> 00:45:06,044
necessarily drink alcohol, they want so to have

720
00:45:06,164 --> 00:45:09,924
nice mocktails, which is a high level of quality.

721
00:45:10,004 --> 00:45:13,436
They want to have an alcohol free beer with a high level of

722
00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:17,156
quality. And the alcohol free beers are getting to

723
00:45:17,260 --> 00:45:20,820
pretty serious point. I don't know if you tried some of them, but I must

724
00:45:20,852 --> 00:45:24,420
say it's not bad. We had them at my dad's

725
00:45:24,452 --> 00:45:27,064
liquor store in 1975. I mean, there was

726
00:45:28,644 --> 00:45:32,416
no problem because we're close to

727
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,152
being done here, which is unbelievable. So the

728
00:45:36,168 --> 00:45:39,616
other thing that happens around here that I interview people and that

729
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,384
is packaging options

730
00:45:43,464 --> 00:45:47,208
and canned wines, tetra packs, bag in the box,

731
00:45:47,256 --> 00:45:50,944
blah, blah, blah. And I see the convenience factor

732
00:45:50,984 --> 00:45:53,924
that. But the question is,

733
00:45:54,744 --> 00:45:57,856
one woman who was in here, I said, do you think, you know, the feet,

734
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,496
you know, Petrus is going to be in a can one day? And she goes,

735
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,360
oh, absolutely. And I'm like, yeah, I don't think so. I'm not

736
00:46:04,392 --> 00:46:08,168
sure. So the interesting part, the interesting

737
00:46:08,216 --> 00:46:11,664
question is, is this a, is a non alcoholic

738
00:46:11,704 --> 00:46:15,424
segment growing to the point where it's going to be its

739
00:46:15,464 --> 00:46:19,224
own thing? There's just be makers like you, a french

740
00:46:19,264 --> 00:46:22,656
bloom I know of an italian prosecco that's like this.

741
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,494
There's a whole bunch of other ones around, but you're making,

742
00:46:26,794 --> 00:46:30,094
you know, brand headwinds here or headlines.

743
00:46:31,594 --> 00:46:35,210
Do, do other, do the big houses across

744
00:46:35,282 --> 00:46:38,946
all industries, all wine Appalachians, was Napa or

745
00:46:38,970 --> 00:46:42,402
Bordeaux or Burgundy start to do this?

746
00:46:42,578 --> 00:46:45,882
Or does it stay with boutique ideas like

747
00:46:45,938 --> 00:46:48,882
you? Or do you think that they're going to go, hey, wait a minute, we

748
00:46:48,898 --> 00:46:52,550
got it. We got to jump in on this. I think they're all going

749
00:46:52,582 --> 00:46:56,326
to jump on it because they realize there's a bigger El Dorado on

750
00:46:56,350 --> 00:46:59,854
this. So, of course, as you said at the beginning, like business

751
00:46:59,934 --> 00:47:03,654
bring like an attract people and they're going to,

752
00:47:03,774 --> 00:47:07,542
they are seeing this, of course. But the biggest difficulties

753
00:47:07,638 --> 00:47:11,434
again, is to rethink

754
00:47:12,134 --> 00:47:15,830
an appellations, to rethink like Bordeaux, make

755
00:47:15,862 --> 00:47:19,590
Bordeaux wine, you know what I mean? Champagne makes champagne wine. And

756
00:47:19,622 --> 00:47:23,326
champagne wine is made with alcohol, you know, and

757
00:47:23,350 --> 00:47:26,422
with a very strict scene, it's with

758
00:47:26,478 --> 00:47:30,118
fermentations. And you have three, sometimes three fermentations

759
00:47:30,206 --> 00:47:34,014
happening in the one in the barrel, sometimes in

760
00:47:34,134 --> 00:47:37,394
the bottle, of course. And so

761
00:47:38,214 --> 00:47:41,926
the big problem is again, if you take a wine from Bordeaux, which

762
00:47:41,950 --> 00:47:44,974
is made to. To make a Bordeaux

763
00:47:45,714 --> 00:47:49,522
and you try to dealize it, or a wine from Napa

764
00:47:49,538 --> 00:47:53,362
Venet, which is made to be normally a wine from Napa Venet, if you de

765
00:47:53,378 --> 00:47:56,970
alkalizing, usually it's very bad. So. That's

766
00:47:57,002 --> 00:48:00,490
right. The biggest

767
00:48:00,562 --> 00:48:04,210
issue is to really think about the vimifications

768
00:48:04,362 --> 00:48:07,690
about the process to

769
00:48:07,722 --> 00:48:11,454
make the wine. It's not like beer, you know,

770
00:48:11,614 --> 00:48:15,194
beer, you can. You can go from trying to make the same

771
00:48:15,614 --> 00:48:19,310
name with 0%. With wine, it's much more

772
00:48:19,342 --> 00:48:22,554
difficult because you have, of course, a terroir. You have

773
00:48:22,974 --> 00:48:26,582
the method of the appellations and all of that. So

774
00:48:26,678 --> 00:48:29,814
the way we're doing at french boom is we are not trying to make, like

775
00:48:29,854 --> 00:48:32,754
a champagne, 0%. You know,

776
00:48:34,054 --> 00:48:37,034
we trying to make our own

777
00:48:37,374 --> 00:48:40,662
appellations with our own

778
00:48:40,718 --> 00:48:44,206
vinifications. So I believe that the best

779
00:48:44,270 --> 00:48:48,070
way to do it for the big group is to also

780
00:48:48,142 --> 00:48:51,798
rethink about pure brands. Focus

781
00:48:51,926 --> 00:48:55,710
especially on this. There is few

782
00:48:55,742 --> 00:48:59,510
brands in Bordeaux who start to dealize their wine and

783
00:48:59,542 --> 00:49:03,190
start that. Dad. I try a few things, actually, from Saint

784
00:49:03,222 --> 00:49:07,048
Emilion Grand Cru. I was pretty impressed

785
00:49:07,176 --> 00:49:10,496
that they've been able to do that. I don't know if they're going to be

786
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,164
in trouble. I don't know, man. That's a.

787
00:49:14,784 --> 00:49:18,528
Well, I had a conversation, and with a third

788
00:49:18,576 --> 00:49:22,352
growth, I think, and owned by corporate

789
00:49:22,408 --> 00:49:25,712
Japan, so not a boutique, you

790
00:49:25,728 --> 00:49:29,496
know, but left to his own devices to do what he wants with the

791
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,260
brand. And that, you know, that. That conversation is

792
00:49:33,292 --> 00:49:36,884
about brand value and creating a wine that people

793
00:49:36,964 --> 00:49:40,356
know when they buy it, it tastes like what it is, rather

794
00:49:40,420 --> 00:49:44,204
than trying to put on the shelf a wine that people are going to like

795
00:49:44,244 --> 00:49:47,876
every time. And so this is totally different concept, but I'm

796
00:49:47,900 --> 00:49:50,504
thinking here, this is. This is brand building.

797
00:49:51,604 --> 00:49:55,396
People are going to expect a certain level of quality from french bloom every

798
00:49:55,420 --> 00:49:59,034
time they open it. And they're going to want to gravitate towards french

799
00:49:59,074 --> 00:50:02,698
bloom because. Because of that. And so you have to be very cognizant,

800
00:50:02,786 --> 00:50:06,442
like a winemaker of premium wine, of

801
00:50:06,498 --> 00:50:10,234
what you're putting in the bottle. Yeah, well,

802
00:50:10,274 --> 00:50:13,666
we're at. We're at 50 minutes, which is unbelievable. And so I have to ask

803
00:50:13,690 --> 00:50:17,058
you a question. Very nice

804
00:50:17,226 --> 00:50:20,986
podcast with you. Thank you. I got a. I've got a book

805
00:50:21,010 --> 00:50:23,930
the other day from my french teacher, actually. She told me about it. A little

806
00:50:23,962 --> 00:50:25,874
video. Doctor Murray

807
00:50:27,534 --> 00:50:31,262
Soignet. I can't

808
00:50:31,278 --> 00:50:34,806
remember the name of the book, but it's the health benefits of wine.

809
00:50:34,830 --> 00:50:38,246
And the book I have, which I found in my father's library, is

810
00:50:38,270 --> 00:50:41,674
called wine is the best medicine.

811
00:50:42,334 --> 00:50:45,870
It's the same doctor. This is the english translation from

812
00:50:45,902 --> 00:50:49,246
1974. So he goes through human

813
00:50:49,310 --> 00:50:53,046
maladies and he comes up with

814
00:50:53,070 --> 00:50:55,594
a cure. I suppose

815
00:50:56,814 --> 00:51:00,430
maybe it's just to make you feel better. We used to do, in

816
00:51:00,462 --> 00:51:04,182
France, you know, we used to give, like, cognac when you were sick

817
00:51:04,278 --> 00:51:07,234
in the early 20th century.

818
00:51:07,974 --> 00:51:10,994
We used to give, like, actually some red wine to

819
00:51:11,854 --> 00:51:15,510
the kids when they were going to pour boutique in the

820
00:51:15,542 --> 00:51:18,384
sixties. And we have this.

821
00:51:19,444 --> 00:51:22,916
I did a podcast with Pauline Vicar, and she

822
00:51:23,020 --> 00:51:26,780
runs the Adeni Global, which is a think tank for wineries.

823
00:51:26,932 --> 00:51:30,064
And I sent her a picture of

824
00:51:31,004 --> 00:51:33,860
an official de Bezier from

825
00:51:33,892 --> 00:51:37,452
1932, and it was defending

826
00:51:37,548 --> 00:51:41,316
the consumption of alcohol in the form of wine. And then it says in

827
00:51:41,340 --> 00:51:45,182
French, you can give wine to your four year old as long as you

828
00:51:45,198 --> 00:51:49,030
put a little water in it, you know, it's okay. Anyway,

829
00:51:49,102 --> 00:51:52,430
so I'm going to read you. I'm going to read you a

830
00:51:52,462 --> 00:51:56,150
malady, and I'm going to give you three choices as

831
00:51:56,182 --> 00:52:00,022
to what Doctor Murray considers a cure. And

832
00:52:00,038 --> 00:52:03,006
then I'll read you the explanation. So. And there's two questions to. One of them

833
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:06,686
is going to be which wine? And then the dosage. How

834
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:10,302
much did you drink to make sure you feel better? So we're going to use

835
00:52:10,398 --> 00:52:13,920
fever. So if you have a fever, would you have a

836
00:52:13,952 --> 00:52:16,944
grav. Would you have a dry

837
00:52:17,024 --> 00:52:20,684
champagne or would you have a sancerre?

838
00:52:22,824 --> 00:52:26,224
This is the question. For fever, I will say champagne

839
00:52:26,264 --> 00:52:29,744
now. Wow, you got that

840
00:52:29,784 --> 00:52:33,096
right. That's, you know, most of the

841
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,948
time it's 33%. Get it right because, you know,

842
00:52:36,956 --> 00:52:40,516
you got one in three chances. That's accurate. And

843
00:52:40,540 --> 00:52:43,704
so why, what do you think the reason is?

844
00:52:44,764 --> 00:52:48,268
I think because the champagne go to the brain. And

845
00:52:48,316 --> 00:52:52,020
so I guess, like they were like, kind of

846
00:52:52,052 --> 00:52:55,892
like thinking that there is a link between the brain and

847
00:52:55,908 --> 00:52:59,284
the fever or something. I don't know. This is my kind of

848
00:52:59,364 --> 00:53:03,036
supposition. Okay, so that's not bad. That's not bad. You know, you're

849
00:53:03,060 --> 00:53:06,528
pretty. Doctor Murray would be proud of you. I'm going to send you the link,

850
00:53:06,576 --> 00:53:09,224
by the way, to this video that I have, and you can watch it. I

851
00:53:09,224 --> 00:53:11,524
tried to kill myself pretty well, my friend.

852
00:53:13,224 --> 00:53:16,464
So the answer was this, because he says, because these

853
00:53:16,544 --> 00:53:20,304
contain, among other things, two important elements for a feverish

854
00:53:20,344 --> 00:53:24,160
person. Phosphorus, which is eminently stimulating in sulfur, in its

855
00:53:24,192 --> 00:53:27,856
sulfate of potassium form, whose detoxifying action on the

856
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,560
body has been established. So now this is my

857
00:53:31,592 --> 00:53:35,084
best part. What is the dosage? How much should I drink?

858
00:53:37,304 --> 00:53:41,000
Two glass. I learned this from your. I learned this from your, by the way,

859
00:53:41,032 --> 00:53:44,872
this answer I learned from your cousin without the question, which was

860
00:53:45,008 --> 00:53:47,844
one bottle per day. I won't put it

861
00:53:48,184 --> 00:53:51,888
so. So Clovis was all about

862
00:53:52,056 --> 00:53:55,424
the bottle a day. So that's good. He's right. He's

863
00:53:55,464 --> 00:53:59,098
right. Exactly. Good man. I

864
00:53:59,106 --> 00:54:02,034
mean, worst cases, you may not get rid of your favor, but you'll feel better

865
00:54:02,074 --> 00:54:05,494
anyway, right? Absolute pleasure,

866
00:54:05,954 --> 00:54:08,826
Rodolfo, to have you on the show. And so glad we got a chance to

867
00:54:08,850 --> 00:54:11,874
connect today. I know it's late for you and you have a. You have kids

868
00:54:11,914 --> 00:54:15,754
there. So thank you again for being on the show and look forward

869
00:54:15,794 --> 00:54:19,058
to seeing you in town. I hope you're so busy when you get here. I

870
00:54:19,066 --> 00:54:22,530
don't know how that's even possible. But thank you very much,

871
00:54:22,562 --> 00:54:26,326
Paul. Looking forward to see you. Perhaps next week in Los Angeles. I'm

872
00:54:26,350 --> 00:54:29,554
going to contact you and I hope to see you soon. Champagne

873
00:54:29,894 --> 00:54:33,274
in Aviz. But really appreciate it was a great talk.

874
00:54:34,054 --> 00:54:37,634
My pleasure. Thank you very much. Cheers. Thank you very much.

875
00:54:46,094 --> 00:54:49,470
Thank you for listening to wine talks with Paul Callum, Cary. And don't forget to

876
00:54:49,502 --> 00:54:52,634
subscribe because there's more great interviews on their way.

877
00:54:52,794 --> 00:54:56,154
Folks, have a great time out there in the wine world. Cheers.