August Sebastiani on Gen Z, Wine Innovation & 100 Years of Sonoma Legacy

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We've had such a great run the last five or six years of

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pushing towards premium, pushing towards premium. And now you go out

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to, go out to a bar. It's not uncommon to spend $25 on a cocktail.

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If you're a starving student, you can't spend $25 on a margarita. That just

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doesn't work. Sit back and grab a glass. It's

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Wine Talks with Paul K.

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Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kay. And we are at an away game

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today up in the Sonoma Valley about to have a conversation with August

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Sebastiani. Hey, this is Paul K. The guy who tasted 100,000

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wines in his career and sold 17 million bottles. And you're going to hear that

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all the time now because that's how we set the stage for what we're about

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to do. But not while we're here. We're here to talk to August. You go

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back August or August? August just like the month. August just like the month. But

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yeah, your. Wait a minute, that was your, your, your grand great, great, great

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grandfather. My grandfather. My grandfather was born August 1st

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and that's where he ended up with the name. Oh, that's true. I was born

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in April. So yeah, that's a. God bless him.

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He actually pre deceased me. He passed away in February of

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1980 and I was born the following April. Oh, wow.

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Never met him. And what's funny is the old Italian thing, the, the first

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born male grandchild is named after. Nono is named after

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the grandfather. Right. And for whatever reason they saved it until I think I was

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the ninth born of the grandchildren. Wow, that's interesting. And

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it was a very Italian thing to do. Right. And I think the timing was

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just right. And I tell you what, he's left awful big shoes for me to

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fill. But God bless him. Walk into this place and you seems like you're

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doing a pretty good job, but we're trying. Is he, was he the, was he

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the immigrant that came to America? It was his dad, my great grandfather, Samuel.

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Samuel Sebastian. Yes. And so he came from a town in southern

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Tuscany called Farnetta. And of all things, I mean it was,

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it's the American dream. He came here with nothing. He was a stone mason when

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he got here and he was farming rocks out of

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the shocking hill, rather just north of Sonoma

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Plaza. And the story goes, in 1906,

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after the earthquake in San Francisco, a lot of people talk about, you know,

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shaking and damage that came from the shaking. It was actually the fires that

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ensued in the wake of the 1910 oh, six earthquake

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that really decimated San Francisco. And he did very well

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for himself, selling stones, repaving San Francisco. But as a fireman

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maybe, right? No, no, no, no. But then he bought a little piece of dirt

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and a bigger piece of dirt and a bigger piece of dirt. And my grandfather

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passed away in the 40s. My great grandfather passed away in the 40s. He had

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a very diverse enterprise. I mean, there was, you know, the theater

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here in town. There was the winery, obviously, and

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a number of other, you know, a lot of real estate and other endeavors.

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And it was my. My grandfather, namesake, August, who was really the green

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thumb who really focused everything on wine, grape production.

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It's interesting, though, because, you know, the immigration here. And I actually started a new

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podcast I haven't launched yet, but I've got some in the can, which is called

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Song of America. Cool. So we're going to have this conversation again, maybe a different

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angle. I love it. Which is about success in America, coming here for

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that dream. And now that immigration is such an important topic, we need

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to tell some of these great stories. But, you know, you wonder, his

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generation. My grandfather came in 20 something from Turkey,

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where that drive comes from. Is it because we're leaving

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someplace that was difficult and strifeful, or is it because we got to a

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place that was free and we could express ourselves? Right. And I'll bet

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that answering that is painting with a very broad brush. I think

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everybody has a different story. And I think the answer, as with so many other

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things, is just a little bit of everything. Yeah, it was bad at home. Right.

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And there was opportunity here, and it was just kind of the perfect storm. And.

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And I tell you what's unique about our story is I've got

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all four. Well, maybe not grandparents, but

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both of my parents are children of immigrants. And my. My. We get a lot

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of street cred for the story on my dad's side of the family, but we're

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much closer to the old world on mom's side of the family. Really? Wow. And

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where was she? Where was her family? So my mom's parents actually met in San

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Francisco, but spoke very broken English as immigrants

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themselves and both Italian. My. My

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mom's mom, Nona Albina, actually came from just.

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Just outside of Genoa, a little bit north of Genoa. Okay. And my

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mom's dad, Guido. Nono Guido, he

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actually trouble got in Guido, he came from just

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outside of Florence, actually. Luca. Specifically Luca. Yeah,

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suburb of Luca. So the stone. But stone work was a

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pretty important trade that the Italians brought to

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America. For Sure it was. I don't know if it was Italians at large or

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just happened to be my great grandfather and. And what. What he found

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when he got here. But you'll notice if you work your way around Sonoma, there's

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quite a bit of it. If you go over to the old family ranch, Sebastiani

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Viney, there's a lot of stonework there. We did a little homage to him in

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front of our office here at 3 Badge. We've got a few stone walls, just

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kind of tip the cap to the history and the story. That's great. But, yeah,

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it's certainly a big part of my family story and. And what we're all about.

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Well, they had quite an enclave of Italians that came from, I think, the

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Lombardi district or the north side. Sure.

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What's the name? I have a piece of furniture at home. It's a beautiful coffee

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bar from the north, Gambaro. Gambaro.

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Anyway, so you already said

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that the Green Thumb came from your grandfather. Yeah. Was this something that

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he was interested in prior to, or. I mean, this is. You're talking about what

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year? The forties. This was the. So when my great grandfather passed away, I

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believe it was 44, he passed away. My grandfather

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and grandmother, his wife, Sylvia August and Sylvia purchased the

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winery and a number of other assets from his estate. And I think

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it ended up just kind of being the perfect storm. I mean, again, a little

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bit of everything in terms of timing and. What do they say luck is the

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intersection of timing and opportunity. That's right. And

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when. When things were clipping, when he was getting started, he would harvest a

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bunch of wine grapes. The train tracks came all the way into Sonoma. We've got

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bike paths that go from, you know, east to west through town

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that used to connect to the train that would go to St. Louis or Chicago

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or Boston. Right. And he would ship wine grapes, and sometimes they would say

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it was from Sebastiani, sometime they would say it was from California, or sometimes it

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wouldn't say anything because you didn't have the oversight. Right. Certainly, that we do now

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in terms of TTB and ABC regulation. So

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it was really a big trade, actually. I think selling grapes to the east coast

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was a huge trade. For sure. Yeah, for sure. And you go back far enough.

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I mean, my. My great grandfather was able to get one of,

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I think, seven wine production licenses from the state of

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California through Prohibition. And that was, you know, obviously a very big deal

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to be able to. To keep on. On humming. Through Prohibition. Yeah.

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For, you know, sacramental Clerical and medicinal use, as they would

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say. So, but like I said, my grandfather, you

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know, it was. It was at the time and, you know, 15,

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20 years hence, that was when,

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you know, Chateau Montelena and all the, you know, the world was discovering

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Napa and Sonoma and with Gallows and Mondavis and

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Krugs and Sebastianis and many, many others

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kind of rode the wave. You know, we like to talk about here at Three

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Badge a lot. We talk about a rising tide lifting all

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boats. You know, that sounds kind of like. That, though, because

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when my dad sold me the company in 1988, which is the Wine

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of the Month Club, the original Wine of the Month Club, we. He had done

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some research as to what was going on in the direct consumer world, and

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we could only find, like, four or five wineries at the time. And I don't

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remember if Sebastian was on the list or not, but it was those groups. It

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was, you know, it was. It wasn't even Monte. It was

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Mondavi and Inglenook and those original

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group of people that had started sort of doing this at the same time.

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But so was there. Was there a rising tide? Was there that

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camaraderie amongst immigrants at this point? Absolutely.

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That we're just going to help each other and support each other a little bit.

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There was, you know, friendly rivalry, almost like a sibling rivalry situation where,

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you know, I. I wouldn't consider him a friend, but I knew him a little

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bit. And that was Bruce cone over at BR Cone. That's

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right. The general man or the manager of the Doobie Brothers. Yeah, he used to

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tell stories about my grandfather and the Gallo brothers getting into

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bidding wars for, you know, whatever fruit he had.

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And, you know, he used to really enjoy kind of playing them off each other

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and obviously doing what he could to drive the price up as they're trying to

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drive it down. But there's. There's a lot of that. So that's

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amazing stories, right? Are those documented somewhere? That's a good point. I

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think mostly anecdotal at this, really. Like your history, for

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instance, was. Did anybody sit down with your grandfather, your great grandfather, and say, hey,

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let's talk about this? There's no. Nothing formally. You know, there's.

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There's stories and there's documents. You can. You can unearth them. And frankly, my.

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My aunt. My aunt Marianne Cunio, she's. She's a little bit kind of the

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family docent in that regard. She's got a couple of barns,

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slash warehouses that have some old documents and Some old.

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Some old paperwork, but mostly old, you know, the bar from the old

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tasting room, stuff like that. That's. That's really cool. I love that. Great

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to know that it's still around. And were you. Were you de

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facto gonna be in this trade, or did you think

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maybe. Oh, are you kidding me? I was going to play second base for the

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San Francisco Giants. Really? That was what took up my spot.

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My inability to hit a curveball ended my career. That was probably around, you

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know, 12, 13 years old. I. I hung ultimately. But, you

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know, when I was a kid, I did a bunch of stuff. I did a

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lot of theater as a kid. I was quite the thespian through high school.

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I went to college at Santa Clara University and studied political science,

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of all things. I. I would say that probably at, you know, my daughter's

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age, my oldest is in college now, and we're starting to have conversations about where

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she sees herself down the road and in that time of life.

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I. I think a political. Political career was. Was something

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that I was. I wouldn't say pursuing, but. But loosely

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interested in. Yeah. Enough to go to college and study it and figure it out.

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And it wasn't like you were going to be part of the wine trade, which

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is very interesting because there's a lot of siblings, a lot of

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offspring of the founders of these places that

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didn't think that that was going to happen, that we were even from Europe a

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lot. Many, many. Like Clovis Tanger, you know, the French champagne guy. He

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was. I'm not doing this right. I'm going to be a businessman. There were more

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than a few conversations I can remember, actually quite vividly in my early

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20s, in which I take my dad out to lunch or dinner,

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and I told him, like, I feel like I'm being pigeonholed into this thing. And

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I'm not sure that that's what I want to do. He was always great about

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it, and I think some of it is just. He's just a good dad then

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after the batting cage. Right, Right. But, you know, just

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parenting. And I've come to. Come to learn. I mean, you can't really tell them

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where to go. Right. You give them the scaffolding and let them kind of build

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their own future. Right. So he was smart enough

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to kind of let me spread my wings. And I dabbled in politics. When I

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got out of school, really, it was never a career choice. It

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was never paying the bills, because, frankly, I got out of school, I came

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right into the wine business.

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Exactly right. Trying to find a job. So that's when it happened. Yeah, after

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college. That's exactly right out of it. I got out of school in

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22,002. I took the summer off

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and then August 15, August 20, I got right into

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it and haven't really looked back. When did,

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and what was the organization then? Just Sebastiani Vineyards? No, we

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were actually, my dad's branch of the family tree was out of

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Sebastiani. So let's back up. My, my

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grandfather, he passed away in 1980 as I mentioned, just

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before I was born. That was when my Uncle Sam was, was

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kind of running Sebastiani Vineyards at the time. And he ran it for

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another half decade, maybe half dozen years. And my dad

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took over in 85. My dad ran

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Sebastiani from 85 till roughly 2001.

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And during that time they built a winery down in

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Loi and, and built a number of really

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impressive volume everyday low

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retail brands. Grocery store, 1.5 liters was really the

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driver. And then sold those brands and the Lodi facility

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to Constellation. Well, there you go. Now we're trying to start big business

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now. Right, exactly right. And so my dad took his

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proceeds from that and you know, started the Don Sebastiani and

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Sons program, which was my dad, my brother, myself, my

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sister, it's you know, Don and Sons and Daughter. My sister was,

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was a kid, she was in her early teens at that time, but she was

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still, you know, an equity part that point. And he had to put it in

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a trust in order to make sure that everything was above board with the, you

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know, the underage and the whole thing. But obviously now we've all come of

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age and, and we're all involved in a number of different entities.

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But to answer your question, when I got, when I got out of school I

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went to Don Sebastiani and Sons and, and I wouldn't say I cut my teeth

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there, but kind of got situated there. So Sebastian.

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So if your dad was running Sebastiani property. Yeah.

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You must, you must have known Richard Zeller. Richard

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Zeller is the chief executive officer of Three Badge

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Beverage Corporation. Come on. I speak daily. He's a very

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much water bottle, that guy. I can probably guess.

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I can. He's a, you know, came up the sales world. He was a southern

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wines and spirit. He's been with my family now, gosh, 40 years.

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Forever. 40 years, yeah. Because I started in 88 and I think I bought from

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like in 91 or something. Right. He is a very, very dear friend

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and colleague. You're around by today by chance? No, he's he lives

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in la, so he commutes up here maybe two

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weeks a month he's up here in Sonoma. Another week he's traveling elsewhere,

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and then another week he's in la. I knew when he showed up I was

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going to be buying something. Right? That's exactly right. He's fantastic.

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I bought three slugs that I remember. And

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I'm talking four or five hundred cases each. One was. Maybe

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it was your daughter or maybe it was your. Maybe it was

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your sister. But somebody had drawn on a Mac, like an old

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Mac, some characters, and then they made a label out of it.

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Yes. And it was a Cabernet Franck and I think a Merlot. That was my

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sister Amelia. Oh, yes. And it was. She actually drew on the whiteboard

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in my Dad's office in 1980. She was born

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in 87, so it might have been 91 or 2, something like that. Exactly right.

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And they made a wine, called it Amelia. They took the scribbling of the

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whiteboard and put it on a label and. There were two or three

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varietals and I bought them both. They're great wines.

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Sure. But I don't, I think final analysis was.

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He said, we found it in the warehouse and we weren't sure what to do

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with it. And it came to me. And then I bought a sparkler from you

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guys. Okay, sure. I don't remember which. Who made a bunch of different

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wines. I mean, there was a, you know, they did my, my, my Uncle Richard

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Cuneo. They did a Richard A. Cuneo sparkling wine, Sebastian.

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And they did a bunch of stuff. I mean, they were importing, they were, you

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know, my dad was importing white Armagnac back in the early years.

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Yep. And he was, dude, he was importing. I think they

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imported Chinese beer at one point. I mean, it was, you know, hey, let's go

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sell some stuff. Let's figure out what's going on, you know, and so I, I

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think a little bit of that is a creative spirit that we really pride ourselves

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on here. Sure. Well, you know, let's turn over some rocks and see what, what

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opportunities like. Yeah, right, right. That's just. Well, that's what we need in this

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industry probably today. So being in this industry for so

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long and, and, and what's interesting for me is that this was an

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established thing. Your father ran this very well known group. It's a

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very well known family. Don Sebastian as well. That whole brand is very

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well known. We're going through some interesting times.

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I'm guessing that you've seen a lot of different

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market issues with the wine business over the years. Sure.

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I mean, we know that there's some people that are drinking the Gen Z. I'm

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not going to get all those details. But you know, there are issues today. Right.

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That we're trying to solve or trying to understand now that we've solved them. I

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think they're generational. Sure. But I land on the idea

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that it really is just a generational thing. It's just going

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to ebb and flow as it always has. It's been around forever. That's, that's what

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it is. And I think at our core competency at Three Badge,

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we consider ourselves innovators. And the fact that we

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do everything that we do, including wine and spirits

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and we've dabbled in beer a little bit and we've looked at other things

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and continue to. That is the fact that we're

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able to do that as, as nimbly as we are without having to appeal to

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Wall street, without having to kind of run it up the corporate flagpole. We do

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a lot of things on horseback and we make mistakes.

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But every once in a while you reel in a big fish and, and that,

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that comes with intimate conversations. You sit down and my dad

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excels at this, really. He grabs a New York Times and he takes it to

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a restaurant and he sits at the bar for lunch, strikes up a conversation with

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the bartender. What are people buying? What price points are working? What's the

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hot cocktail? What's the hot by the glass? And that becomes

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our kind of field work and you know, our focus group,

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as it were. And we say, hey, let's throw some spaghetti against the wall and

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see if it's going to stick. I think that's kind of where it has to

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be. And that's brilliant. That's just getting your ear to the

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ground and figuring out what's going on. Because I don't think here's what, here's what

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I see all the time. And I read all this stuff I was

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reading last week a bunch of Les Avi devant magazines from the 70s

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to see what the conversations were like then. Sure. And what they were

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talking about. And they're not usually industry related. Usually it's about wine.

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But it seems to me that as we go through

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these things, you've, you've got to have your ear with the

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people. The metrics and the social metrics and the

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roas and all the things that they throw at you for marketing

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are really just sort of temperature gauges. They don't really tell you what to

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do. Sure. Right. And the thing, the thing that's tricky about wine and spirits in

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particular is the game of telephone. That comes from the three tier

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system. As you sit down with your distributor partners and they're doing a great

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job, but by the time even the message gets from

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the retailer to the wholesaler to the supplier, the

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moment maybe it's come and gone. That was a great analysis or a

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great analogy. Well, thank you. The. The game of telephone

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through the three tier system. Yes, because that's what it is. And as marketers it,

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we find some challenges there going both ways, whether

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it's our message to our ultimate consumer or their message to us.

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You know, I subscribe firmly to the marketing school of thought

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that your brand isn't always what you say it is, it's what

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your consumer says it is. Right. You may not even know what it is.

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We used to talk a lot about. I forgot what the heck car it was

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and I'm going to mess this up. There was a car that was marketed

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when I was first getting into the industry and it was a, it was a

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Honda, like a crossover. It was a small,

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like, I remember it wasn't a minivan because it was smaller than that.

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But it was marketed towards like ex

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athletes and surfers and you know,

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skateboarders and snowboarders. You can hose the thing down if you get sand in the

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car or snow in the car, whatever it is. And the people who ended up

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buying it were soccer moms for the same reason, because it was small, it had

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great gas mileage, blah, blah, blah, blah. And even, you know, these so funny,

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these brilliant marketers had, you know, a wonderful plan.

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And when the rubber meets the road, you really don't know what's going to happen.

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And sometimes you just got to lean into it and own it like you were

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there. We talk about a lot, you know, sometimes it's the art

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of running to the front of the parade and pretending like you've been there the

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whole damn time. Right. Exactly. Right.

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That's interesting thought too, because Internet and Facebook and

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Instagram and LinkedIn have created all these marketeers

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and brand people and we're going to make a brand that's going to work. And

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it's like, you know, if you knew the answer to that question, like, how do

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you build a brand? If there was a formula, right. You know, we'd all be

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brilliant. But we know we never know what's going to. After all the

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analysis and all the metrics and all the Things you never still.

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I mean, I won't say half, but you know, a handful of our brands come

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from a production opportunity that landed in our lap. A number.

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Another piece of our portfolio comes from marketing opportunities

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that arise. And another one is just like, hey, these are fun projects. I want

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to do that. Let's go see if there's an opportunity. Right. So it's

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a recurring theme sometimes you just go to. It's a

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factor of a little bit of everything that seems to work. Three Badge started

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a when and why. So three Badge hasn't always been called

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Three Badge. Three Badge started in

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gosh. I guess if you go back, it's probably kind of the idea of 3

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badge was 0506. So start to the young. I decided I

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wanted to be a wholesaler. Oh, that was brilliant. And so we actually had

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a portfolio of dawn and Sons brands that we

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developed for kind of a direct to consumer tier group, direct to

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retail tier. We actually brought in some third party brands as

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well. And what we found through that experience was the brands had

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traction, but we didn't have full trucks. We didn't have Jack

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Daniels or Corona. And so it wasn't as

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profitable as an entity. And frankly, what a lifelong lesson for me to

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learn, you know, the, to walk a mile in our wholesaler's shoes and

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appreciate all they do for us. And so we. But the brands

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had traction and we were getting reorders. And so we took the brands that

359
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worked and we pivoted to a 50 state model. We

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were just in Northern California. We have. The truck is still here. We were driving

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to Tahoe and Monterey and you know, up to the Oregon

362
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border. And when we pivoted,

363
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we started rolling out to 50 states. And we were actually, at the time we

364
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were called the Other Guys. That was the name brand. The Other Guy.

365
00:22:00,890 --> 00:22:03,290
That wasn't the name of the brand. That was the name of the umbrella company.

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The Other Guys. I like that. Right. It was call the Other Guys. It was

367
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painfully generic though. It was such, you know, we called it tog and the

368
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whole thing. And we became three Badge when we bought the building

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in which we are presently seated, which is cool. We bought an old firehouse from

370
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the Phidias and Elma. So, you know, we're kind of getting ahead of ourselves a

371
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little bit. In 05, when we started the Other Guys, I also

372
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chose to throw my hat in the ring for a seat on the Sonoma City

373
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Council. Oh, right. Very well said. And

374
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I loved it. I was a kid. I was, you know, 25, 26 years

375
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old and I won and I got elected to the Sonoma City Council. I served

376
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a four year term. It was terrific. I wouldn't,

377
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I wouldn't trade that experience for the world. I'm not in a hurry to go

378
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:50,510
back there. Riding the coattails of the great grandfather into the Sebastian

379
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A. Into city council. Well, even more specifically, my old man was a

380
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:57,830
politician. My dad was. Oh, he was. So everybody knew that he served, he. Served

381
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maybe three terms in the California State Assembly. So when I was a kid, as

382
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I mentioned, my Uncle Sam ran Sebastiani Vineyards for the first half of the

383
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1980s. My dad was commuting up to Sacramento as a state Assemblyman for

384
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the 8th district, which was a weird one. It extended from

385
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Sonoma kind of through Napa and up to Lake County.

386
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Really, it was a very, very weird shaped district. I think they've, you know,

387
00:23:19,790 --> 00:23:23,510
redrawn it more than a few times since. But, you know, the

388
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apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. So I wrote, you know,

389
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ran for city council, was elected, loved it. And then in 2010,

390
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I thought, you know what, that's enough. My kids family was growing and

391
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charity starts at home, right. So I had to make sure my kids were in

392
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bed and that I was around and available for soccer games and

393
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baseball games and volleyball games, whatever else. And

394
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so, so I turned the page. Now fast forwarding five years from that

395
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to 2015, or 14 rather, that's when the city

396
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decided to sell the firehouse. The state of California was way

397
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underwater at the time. And Jerry Brown

398
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wanted his money back. He wanted his money and he told all of the cities

399
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of California, and I'm sorry if I'm getting granular, they closed up

400
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:13,590
an agency called Redevelopment. I did well with those guys. There you go.

401
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:17,430
Successor agencies. Yes. And so the successor agency to the

402
00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:20,320
Redevelopment Agency of Sonoma owned this building.

403
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,480
Fascinating process. They put it up for auction. It was

404
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,040
on, you know, June 1, I think, of 2014. They

405
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,040
wanted your highest and best final offer to buy the place.

406
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,399
I've subsequently learned I don't think our offer was the highest, but we

407
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were the only offer that wanted to preserve the building and celebrate

408
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,880
its history. Everybody else wanted to scrape the lot, do three stories

409
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,310
with, you know, yeah, coffee shop and a, you know, Chase bank,

410
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:50,470
retail and whatever else. But we wanted to own the

411
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:54,070
history and we wanted to use the garage and use the office space

412
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:57,950
and. And through that process we came to learn that

413
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my grandfather was a volunteer in the very building. Wow.

414
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:05,110
When he was a. How Cool. Is that kid really cool.

415
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:08,950
And. And so Sonoma's local newspaper, the Index Tribune,

416
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:12,380
has a very robust online archive. And you can search by

417
00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:15,740
keyword, literally back to the 1850s,

418
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:20,140
and you can find articles and all sorts of stuff. We found an ad. Wow.

419
00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:23,260
From 1945 that was

420
00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:29,140
advocating for the passage of props one and two, that would have

421
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raised $50,000, if you can believe it, to buy an

422
00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:36,060
unspecified piece of dirt and build a state of the art

423
00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:39,910
combo police and fire station. And also

424
00:25:39,910 --> 00:25:43,670
eight grand baked into that for a fire engine as well. And the

425
00:25:43,670 --> 00:25:47,030
ad says, this is a great business deal for the city of Sonoma. Our insurance

426
00:25:47,030 --> 00:25:50,510
premiums are all going to come down. And at the bottom is a roll call

427
00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:53,870
of Sonoma's volunteer firefighters. And it has all the city's

428
00:25:53,870 --> 00:25:57,630
father's names there, including my grandfather. Wow. That's true. And so

429
00:25:57,630 --> 00:26:00,150
I sent it out to my aunt, my uncle, my dad. I said, check this

430
00:26:00,150 --> 00:26:03,710
out. You know, Nono Gus, we call him Nono Gus, was very involved in this

431
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:07,090
building. And. And my Aunt Marianne says, I've got his service badges.

432
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Blew my mind. I called her right away. She said, you know, I'm not going

433
00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:13,970
to give them to you. I said, I wouldn't dream of asking you for them,

434
00:26:14,130 --> 00:26:17,690
but can I maybe borrow them for an afternoon and see if there's some branding

435
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:20,450
opportunity or we can have a look at it and take some pictures.

436
00:26:21,170 --> 00:26:24,890
And, you know, sure. Sure enough, there were

437
00:26:24,890 --> 00:26:28,690
three badges. One was an active badge that lived in his wallet

438
00:26:28,690 --> 00:26:32,520
for 25 or 30 years. And his gnarly and petite

439
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,280
and gross and a retired badge, and then an honorary

440
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,800
badge they gave my grandmother when he passed away. Wow. And so those three

441
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,640
badges are kind of the tangible intersection of my family story,

442
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,680
our building story, and too good of a marketing

443
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,920
opportunity to pass up on. You know, I have to say this back of just

444
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,240
a second. My. I respect what you've done because my mother was a city

445
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,480
councilwoman, my hometown, and it took a couple of terms to figure it out.

446
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,000
And I just. I know how much time it takes. I also know how much

447
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,240
slack they cut me whenever I got pulled over. Which is kind of cool.

448
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,960
And I spent eight years on a planning commission in my hometown in Acadia now

449
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,080
and learned. And I did it because I wanted to learn that side of the

450
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,240
fence. How did they think? Sure. And that could have a lot to do with

451
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,760
how you won the successor agency property, because I had this

452
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,320
exact same story. I was the only guy that was preserving.

453
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,320
It was a grain mill I was a lumber mill I was going to turn

454
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,000
into a wine event. It was my warehouse. I packed the ship wine there, the

455
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,030
wine shop in there. It was right by the new train station, but it was

456
00:27:31,030 --> 00:27:34,710
exactly the same. Everybody else wanted to knock it down, build apartments. Wow. And they

457
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:38,350
wanted to preserve this. You know, I think it was built in 58 or something.

458
00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:42,030
Sure. And it came out really cool. That's great. Good for you. It was

459
00:27:42,030 --> 00:27:45,830
really funny, though, because there was a big facade that faces the

460
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:49,310
210 freeway. Huge. They let me put Wine of the Month club on there.

461
00:27:49,950 --> 00:27:53,110
But the painter had said, look, I'm going to paint the. I'm going to put

462
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:56,710
the primer on Friday afternoon, I'll come back, money and paint it.

463
00:27:56,940 --> 00:28:00,500
And I'm going to mix the white primer with the

464
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:04,260
color that's coming on, which is this deep burgundy. Okay, well, that

465
00:28:04,260 --> 00:28:07,740
came out, like hot pink. This is a true story.

466
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,580
And so he paints this big, giant stucco facade beacon. Makes it

467
00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:15,340
easy to find completely. Two people came from the gas

468
00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:18,340
station next door, and one person actually pull off the freeway and came into the

469
00:28:18,340 --> 00:28:21,700
building and asked if the place was going to be a strip joint. Okay, how

470
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,880
about that? How about that? And I'm like, my friend, make more money

471
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,520
in the wine shop there. Right? No, but that's truly commendable

472
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,040
to serve your community like that. I appreciate that name. It was a lot of

473
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,280
work. And you know what? I tell you, to your point,

474
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,400
everyone who comes to show their appreciation has a caveat

475
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,120
about, oh, it's thankless work. I actually found it quite the contrary.

476
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,880
And I found everyone was very much appreciative of it. I was a fish out

477
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,680
of water. And I liken it to. As a, you know, a father of kids

478
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,360
who are learning how to drive a car, my first city council meeting felt

479
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,720
like my first time driving on the freeway. I'm sure, you know, it was holy,

480
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,200
goodness gracious, this is really something. And, you know, maybe

481
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,800
18 months into it, I finally got my footing because I didn't have

482
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,280
to do the deep dive on the staff report because I had lived it. Right.

483
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,920
That's right. When you were getting started, you really had to do a lot of

484
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,800
the research and go back to why they did this and why they did that.

485
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,560
And once you start. Start to be a part of the process, it becomes

486
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,000
a lot easier because you. You own it and you understand it. You're, you know,

487
00:29:22,210 --> 00:29:26,050
breaking down your own precedent or the decisions you've already made. And it was. It

488
00:29:26,050 --> 00:29:28,530
was a fun process. And like I said, I wouldn't trade it for the world.

489
00:29:28,930 --> 00:29:32,690
If I was counseling a 25 year old a, I would say

490
00:29:33,010 --> 00:29:36,610
absolutely, do this for sure 100 times out of 100 as a

491
00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:40,090
45 year old guy, you never say never. But I'm not in a hurry to

492
00:29:40,090 --> 00:29:42,930
go back because it was, it was a lot of work. It's a lot of

493
00:29:42,930 --> 00:29:46,490
work if you do it right. And no control over your time.

494
00:29:46,490 --> 00:29:49,890
Yes. Because you got to do a mayors and council members thing, you know, in

495
00:29:49,890 --> 00:29:53,740
Sebastopol, or you got to go to Sacramento for a thing. And I

496
00:29:53,740 --> 00:29:57,220
like being able to have a little bit more father schedule. It's probably different. But

497
00:29:57,220 --> 00:29:59,300
you did, you did the right thing. I get it when the kids are out

498
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:02,700
of the house. And that's why there's a lot of, you know, 50 something, 60

499
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:06,100
somethings who do that because they got the time right. You know, they're not shuttling

500
00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:09,860
to and from practice as I find myself doing quite a bit.

501
00:30:09,860 --> 00:30:12,060
In fact, literally before you got here, I was on the phone with my wife

502
00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:15,700
figuring out who's bringing my son to water polo practice in Napa. So that's,

503
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:19,360
that's more about my Friday afternoons. I get it again because I have

504
00:30:19,910 --> 00:30:23,750
millennials daughters. They're 30, the oldest is 32 and the youngest is

505
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:27,430
29. So we're well advanced in that and I literally

506
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:30,910
ignore that. But my daughter did not lose her house in the

507
00:30:30,910 --> 00:30:34,510
altitude of fire. She was displaced. She's living with us. So I have three grandkids

508
00:30:34,510 --> 00:30:38,230
with us now. Seven, five and three. I was the little league coach

509
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:41,950
again. Good for you. And I loved it. That's fantastic. Except the beauty was

510
00:30:41,950 --> 00:30:45,640
I didn't have to be there every time. Sure. I could go. Well, we went

511
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,480
to Bordeaux. I don't have to do that. Right. But when I was on the

512
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,240
field, I really loved it. Right. I really love it. So I get

513
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,760
it. So three badge now. Yeah. What, what is it

514
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,240
exactly? Now it's spirits. Wine. Spirits and wine.

515
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,000
Spirits and wine. We've talked about maybe getting back into beer. And we were,

516
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,680
you know, at the beginning of the craft. Not the beginning, but when craft beer

517
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,480
was really swelling. That's about 10, 15 years ago. We, we

518
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,020
had kind of messed around in that space. But I think that

519
00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:18,820
moment kind of came and went. I think White Claw came in and, you know,

520
00:31:18,820 --> 00:31:22,580
sucked up all that business with an eye roll. I get it. But it's got

521
00:31:22,580 --> 00:31:26,220
a place. Obviously it's made some considerable headway. And if you look at

522
00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:29,980
you know, kind of what ails the wine and spirits industry, that, that might not

523
00:31:29,980 --> 00:31:32,580
be a small part of it. No, it's one of them. And it's, it's the

524
00:31:32,580 --> 00:31:36,340
approachability and the ease of just cracking a can and you know,

525
00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:39,300
whether it's that or ready to drink cocktail, we see some

526
00:31:39,620 --> 00:31:43,420
traction there. And I don't want

527
00:31:43,420 --> 00:31:46,700
to be silly. My 19 year old daughter is not yet of age, but she

528
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:50,340
is a college student and she has friends who are of age and the stories

529
00:31:50,340 --> 00:31:53,980
that they bring back from school about what kids of that generation are

530
00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:57,660
doing with their spare time as responsibly as I insist

531
00:31:57,660 --> 00:32:01,460
that they do it. We're learning a

532
00:32:01,460 --> 00:32:05,220
little bit about what kids are doing about raising kids. Yeah, right. Also that.

533
00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:09,020
But as it pertains to our, you

534
00:32:09,020 --> 00:32:12,620
know, innovative, you know, tendencies here at Three Badge, the lessons

535
00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:16,220
we're learning there is that we have spent such

536
00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:19,940
a, we've had such a great run the last, you know, five or six years

537
00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:23,700
of pushing towards premium, pushing towards premium. And now

538
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:26,940
you go out to, go out to a bar, it's not uncommon to spend 25

539
00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:30,620
on a cocktail. If you're a starving student, you can't spend 25

540
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,790
on a margarita. That just doesn't work. I think that's a big part of the

541
00:32:33,790 --> 00:32:37,430
issue. That's a really good point. You know, actually I even thought that because it

542
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:40,870
is $25 for a freaking. Cocktail, especially in Malibu. Yeah,

543
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:44,830
yeah, exactly. Gotta drive all the way up to Pepperdine.

544
00:32:44,830 --> 00:32:47,670
Right, but that's the Colony right there. Yep.

545
00:32:49,030 --> 00:32:52,790
That's an interesting thought though because it is certainly the, the problems of the industry

546
00:32:52,790 --> 00:32:56,630
and I don't want to harp on the problems but sales are

547
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:59,920
not great and the premium market. But then you talk to the

548
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:03,760
Bordelaise and you know, they're, they're dropping their

549
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,560
prices. Classified growth. I just got an email yesterday from a European importer. She's

550
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,360
like, yeah, all the second labels of Margaux, Lafitte,

551
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,760
Latour, they're all being, the prices are coming down. I think that's a problem.

552
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,520
Sure. The world's drowning in wine. That's it. That's too much wine.

553
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,440
So what, what wine brands then does three Badge carry now? So our,

554
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,120
our flagship brand is called Garricky and we have two

555
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,840
tiers of a Guerrike brand. We've got a wholesale tier that's a,

556
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,680
you know, dusty rose label that you'll find at, you know, your local retailer

557
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,240
that we, we sell on our website, but that goes through wholesalers to

558
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,000
retail through 50 states and beyond. And then we have

559
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,400
a tasting room only single vineyard offering

560
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,040
with a, you know, a handful of wines there that include actually a pet

561
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,120
nat, which is a lot of fun. A very popular offering for us. It's kind

562
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,780
of my go to. Sorry, tapping the microphone. It's.

563
00:33:55,780 --> 00:33:58,820
It's kind of my go to a cocktail wine for. You're looking for a glass.

564
00:33:58,820 --> 00:34:02,340
People get really excited when they see something new. Is that still, like, happening Pet

565
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:06,180
nats and natural? It's not a huge volume driver for us,

566
00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:10,020
but it definitely raises eyebrows and gets people excited when they come to the

567
00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:13,860
tasting room on a Friday afternoon. So is that. Is that where you

568
00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:17,340
place innovation for three badges? In other words, the idea of

569
00:34:17,340 --> 00:34:21,159
innovation in the wine trade would be to roll with the marketplace and

570
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,759
come up with things it has or change the experience of your

571
00:34:24,759 --> 00:34:28,439
wine or change the packaging. Like today, I saw it in the little

572
00:34:28,439 --> 00:34:31,919
market in Yonville. It's really kind of cool. It was a little.

573
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:35,919
Almost looked like a prescription bottle, you know, like the liquid bottle.

574
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,679
It was a crown cap, but it was a sparkler. And it was a different.

575
00:34:39,759 --> 00:34:43,439
Different package altogether that I've seen. I don't think crown caps are great, but it

576
00:34:43,439 --> 00:34:47,250
was probably 250ml kind of thing. Right. You know, it was. It was.

577
00:34:47,490 --> 00:34:50,490
I thought it was professional. But is that what innovation feels like to you, or.

578
00:34:50,490 --> 00:34:53,570
A little bit. A little bit. I mean, you know, in terms of sparklers specifically,

579
00:34:53,570 --> 00:34:57,010
we had another. We have another brand called Guinigi, which is

580
00:34:57,010 --> 00:35:00,770
named for a landmark in northern Italy that

581
00:35:01,010 --> 00:35:04,730
is in the city of Luca. And so we actually

582
00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:08,330
have a Prosecco, actually two Prosecco under the Guinigi

583
00:35:08,330 --> 00:35:12,050
label. And so we found that some success there. And the conversation of, you

584
00:35:12,050 --> 00:35:15,890
don't have to wait for a celebration to have bubbles, you

585
00:35:15,890 --> 00:35:19,530
know, maybe Friday. Getting home from work on a Friday afternoon spent

586
00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:23,130
$65. Right, exactly. Right. And so.

587
00:35:24,010 --> 00:35:27,770
So some of it is the messaging. And, you know, sparkling is.

588
00:35:27,770 --> 00:35:31,410
Is part of a little bit of, you know, off. Off of the beaten path.

589
00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:35,050
It's a little bit of a different approach in terms of innovation. We look to,

590
00:35:35,850 --> 00:35:39,450
you know, varietal expressions, we look to Appalachians, we look to

591
00:35:39,980 --> 00:35:43,500
price points, we look to packaging opportunities

592
00:35:43,980 --> 00:35:47,340
that. That look and feel a little bit different or

593
00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:51,020
frankly that. That don't look and feel any different, but are

594
00:35:51,180 --> 00:35:55,020
right where the consumer. Right where the fish are. We like to fish where the

595
00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:58,740
fish are. Yeah. So one of our new innovative brands ain't

596
00:35:58,740 --> 00:36:02,460
all that innovative, but as I've mentioned, Sometimes the push to premium

597
00:36:02,620 --> 00:36:06,340
hurts. When you're looking at, you know, gen whomever, you're looking at

598
00:36:06,340 --> 00:36:10,060
20 somethings who aren't as avid consumers

599
00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:13,620
as we were at that age, and you say, let's find something that's approachable

600
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,660
and easy to pronounce and easy to drink and easy to find

601
00:36:17,380 --> 00:36:21,020
that's not, you know, some style of wine

602
00:36:21,020 --> 00:36:24,580
making that's, you know, bizarre or, you know, that's really

603
00:36:24,660 --> 00:36:28,180
varietally correct. California, Ava.

604
00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:32,580
And so that, that brand for us is called Subterra.

605
00:36:33,220 --> 00:36:37,010
And we're, we've, we've actually launched some other offerings in the Subterra brand.

606
00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:40,410
We're kind of repositioning it to celebrate as, as an everyday

607
00:36:40,410 --> 00:36:44,210
California offering that might retail for 12 to 15 bucks. Yeah,

608
00:36:44,210 --> 00:36:48,050
that's a tough market spot. It certainly is. You are congested.

609
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:51,810
And I took a picture of the day at Ralph's Market in South Cal. There

610
00:36:51,810 --> 00:36:55,610
was a shelf talker on every single bottle in the damn shelf. And you're like,

611
00:36:55,610 --> 00:36:59,130
how do you choose? Right? And, you know, we like to think that it's that

612
00:36:59,290 --> 00:37:03,060
packaging, that really. Packaging, you know, that's the first impression. And obviously

613
00:37:03,060 --> 00:37:06,860
the fruit and the juice has to deliver, but it's the packaging that

614
00:37:06,860 --> 00:37:10,060
sells the first bottle and then what's in the bottle will sell the second and

615
00:37:10,060 --> 00:37:13,500
the third and beyond. Right. You know, the founder of Barefoot, Mike

616
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:16,780
Houlihan, had come into my office in 1989

617
00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:20,500
with this idea. And you probably don't know the whole story, I won't tell you,

618
00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:23,660
but I called my dad. I go, dad, this guy thinks he's going to sell

619
00:37:23,660 --> 00:37:27,020
wine. He's calling it the Lafitte F E T of California.

620
00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:31,300
And I go, what a hyper. He's very hyper guy. He's really nice guy. And

621
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,100
I thought, what a stupid idea. And of course, one of the biggest brands in

622
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:37,900
America. That's how smart I am. But he

623
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,540
did say something. You remember Thrifty? The Thrifty drugstore line?

624
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:44,980
He was trying to sell them the wine and he took them the package and

625
00:37:44,980 --> 00:37:48,060
the guy goes, look, I want to be able to see that label from

626
00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:52,220
like 20ft away. If somebody's walking down the aisle

627
00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:55,820
pushing the stroller, I want her to be able to see your label stand

628
00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:59,590
out that far away. And that was sort of a Gallo, you

629
00:37:59,590 --> 00:38:03,430
know, guerrilla marketing kind of concept, right? Sure. So you're, you're in

630
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:06,870
the trenches with this. Well, I tell you, that was a lesson that we learned

631
00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:10,670
in some of it is again, timing and the timing now is very different than

632
00:38:10,670 --> 00:38:13,470
the timing was then. But when I was first getting into the business, Don and

633
00:38:13,470 --> 00:38:16,790
Son's big brand was Smoking Loon. And that was another brand

634
00:38:17,350 --> 00:38:20,830
that you would, you know, you walked into Safeway on the right day and you

635
00:38:20,830 --> 00:38:24,070
trip over 150, 200 case display. Yeah.

636
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:27,830
And obviously the magnitude of the display is going to get your attention. But

637
00:38:28,140 --> 00:38:31,940
if you got even one facing that package, the contrast of

638
00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:35,700
the red and the yellow. I remember hitting you in the head, you know, you

639
00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:39,540
couldn't miss it. Was that Chef Pop, as we call it. Right. But

640
00:38:39,540 --> 00:38:43,340
Don Sebastiani was more than that. Those things. Right. It was Smoking Loon was the

641
00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:46,780
real driver. Well, because of the fighting varietal price range, but. Right.

642
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:50,940
But the. There are other brands that were. Oh, yeah. Pepperwood Grove was another.

643
00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:55,380
I bought a ton of that. So good. Right? Yeah. I think it was your

644
00:38:55,380 --> 00:38:58,900
first bottle. It was so good. The Pinot Noir. Pepperwood Grove. Actually, funny story. You

645
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:01,960
know, we talked about my mom' family a little bit. My mom's brother, my uncle

646
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,440
Roy Chetti and my dad partnered at Chetti

647
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,880
Sebastiani seller. Yes. Early

648
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,560
90s. There you go. And Pepperwood Grove was kind of their. Their anchor brand. They

649
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,960
also had a Chetti Sebastiani seller brand called CSC Ceccetti

650
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,320
Sebastiani Seller that was a lot more upmarket, kind of Napa

651
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,600
offering all negotian style

652
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,420
and led. By pimple with grill from Richard Zeller.

653
00:39:27,130 --> 00:39:30,010
At some point you certainly. Depending on what year I was

654
00:39:30,810 --> 00:39:34,250
Richard, I tell you to. To his credit, he's one of the few guys who

655
00:39:34,570 --> 00:39:38,410
worked for Sebastiani Vineyards. He worked for Cecchetti Sebastiani Seller. He worked for Don

656
00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:42,170
Sebastian. Wow. And the other guys. And now three badges. You're gonna have to

657
00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:45,570
say item for me. That's even. I absolutely will. And that's. That's even more than

658
00:39:45,570 --> 00:39:48,970
I can say. I was never an employee at Cecchetti Sebastiani Sellers. So he's. He's

659
00:39:48,970 --> 00:39:52,770
checked more than his boxes than have I. I still have a 3. Liter sparkler

660
00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:56,070
that I use for display. This is pretty great. So is there. Is there a

661
00:39:56,070 --> 00:39:58,910
low out and we're running out of time now, so wrap this up. But is

662
00:39:58,910 --> 00:40:02,230
there a low out non alk in your portfolio? There is not. But that is

663
00:40:02,310 --> 00:40:06,030
innovative. That's a category that we are targeting right now. Actually. We're looking

664
00:40:06,030 --> 00:40:09,630
at our gin brand, Uncle Val's Botanical

665
00:40:09,630 --> 00:40:12,070
and. And others. I love the Cal.

666
00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:17,310
Uncle Val is actually Zio Valerio is my

667
00:40:17,310 --> 00:40:21,030
mom's dad's baby. Brother. Wow. And

668
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:24,790
he, he lived in a suburb of Luca. He passed away a few years back.

669
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:29,270
And we thought we would pay an homage to Zio polarity when we

670
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:33,110
came out with Uncle Val's Gin. Yeah. And we've got three different offerings of gin

671
00:40:33,110 --> 00:40:36,710
and we're, we're dabbling in maybe an Uncle Val's non Alk.

672
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:41,110
Because distilled or not non alk distilled,

673
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:44,910
it would be something that might compete with seed lip or, you know, you make

674
00:40:44,910 --> 00:40:48,350
a cocktail with it or a mocktail with it. So you think it's got staying

675
00:40:48,350 --> 00:40:51,430
power. I mean, it sounds like you're looking at maybe. I tell you, I don't

676
00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:54,980
know if it's got staying power, but it's. It's more than a blip on the

677
00:40:54,980 --> 00:40:58,260
radar. It's. It's a thing for sure. We were at the fancy food show in

678
00:40:58,260 --> 00:41:02,020
Vegas and it was the. The primary theme of any beverage there was

679
00:41:02,020 --> 00:41:05,860
not out. Sure. Prosecco, distilled spirits, brown liquor. Right.

680
00:41:05,860 --> 00:41:09,220
And we think, and whether this is maybe another factor of the 20

681
00:41:09,220 --> 00:41:12,900
somethings lack of interest, there might be this

682
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:16,740
California sober craze that has been really, of course, taken

683
00:41:16,740 --> 00:41:20,290
off. Whether it's cannabis or whether it's, you know, some other, you know,

684
00:41:20,290 --> 00:41:23,850
lion's mane or whatever it is. People go out, they want to have something to

685
00:41:23,850 --> 00:41:27,650
drink, right. So they, they'll have a. They'll have a mocktail that, you know,

686
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:31,410
it's a. Which is also running 25. Yeah. Right. Which I don't understand

687
00:41:31,490 --> 00:41:35,130
at all point. But it's something that I think it's too big to

688
00:41:35,130 --> 00:41:38,010
ignore. Yeah, I think you're right. I've got a. I've got a friend who was

689
00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:41,050
a big beer. This is actually the buddy who introduced me to craft beer. As

690
00:41:41,050 --> 00:41:44,850
we dabbled in craft beer, he had a. For. I forget what

691
00:41:44,850 --> 00:41:47,930
year it was. Maybe his 40th birthday. He decided, I'm gonna not drink for a

692
00:41:47,930 --> 00:41:51,460
year just to do it. And he started drinking non

693
00:41:51,460 --> 00:41:54,780
alk IPAs. And he's like, I gotta tell you, they're pretty damn good.

694
00:41:55,020 --> 00:41:57,860
They're getting. And that might be part of the issue too, is that the non

695
00:41:57,860 --> 00:42:01,620
elk stuff, pardon my language, it doesn't suck anymore. Well, the, the

696
00:42:01,620 --> 00:42:05,260
beers don't. And I had one the other day. This cracked me up though. It

697
00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:09,060
was. There was Whole Foods and they were pouring Corona. Not out, but it

698
00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:12,860
still had the stanchions. And it still said, you must be 21. Right.

699
00:42:12,940 --> 00:42:15,730
I didn't understand and I thought was very good

700
00:42:16,690 --> 00:42:20,130
and I don't know why my stomach was tweaked about an hour later. I don't

701
00:42:20,130 --> 00:42:23,810
know if it's from that or not, but it was something. Well, so what,

702
00:42:24,210 --> 00:42:27,690
what is next? We got a down out thing. Right. I mentioned

703
00:42:27,690 --> 00:42:31,170
subterranean repositioning the Subterra brand. That's, that's, that's coming.

704
00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:35,450
We've been looking at ready to drinks as well. The other thing too,

705
00:42:35,450 --> 00:42:38,850
and this is a little bit of a Hail Mary pass and this is a,

706
00:42:39,010 --> 00:42:42,840
you know, it's a fledgling conversation that we're

707
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,680
having internally. Yeah, I love sake.

708
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,960
And so we were thinking that it might be kind of fun to get a

709
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,120
sake and to market it to non

710
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,880
conventional outlets and sit down with an Italian

711
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,600
restaurant and say, listen, this conjozo sake, it's

712
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,280
a, it's a dry junmai, but it's got

713
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,970
stuffing and it pairs beautifully with your, you

714
00:43:07,970 --> 00:43:11,530
know, chicken parmesan or whatever it happens to be. Because that is,

715
00:43:11,610 --> 00:43:14,770
was an eye opening experience. My wife and I, about a decade ago, we went

716
00:43:14,770 --> 00:43:17,810
to a dinner in Napa and there's a gentleman who used to be. His name

717
00:43:17,810 --> 00:43:21,370
is Eddie. Eduardo Dingler's his name. He used to be the Saki

718
00:43:21,370 --> 00:43:24,730
Samoye Morimoto. He went around last thing. I'm Arnold Dingler.

719
00:43:25,050 --> 00:43:28,570
Right. But now he's, he's a great

720
00:43:28,570 --> 00:43:32,170
dude. And he is a traveling sake ambassador and he hosts these

721
00:43:32,170 --> 00:43:35,860
dinners where he pairs unconventional

722
00:43:36,020 --> 00:43:39,620
foods, not very conventional foods, but foods that are

723
00:43:39,940 --> 00:43:43,460
not commonly paired with sake. With sake, including

724
00:43:43,540 --> 00:43:47,300
tri tip, including pizza, including all sorts

725
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:51,140
of things. And has a very accurate

726
00:43:51,140 --> 00:43:54,660
description of why this flavor profile works with this particular

727
00:43:54,660 --> 00:43:57,860
food and doesn't compete with it, but pairs with it.

728
00:43:58,580 --> 00:44:02,030
And it was just an eye opener for me. So when I'm at home, my

729
00:44:02,270 --> 00:44:05,150
poison of choice is dry

730
00:44:05,550 --> 00:44:09,190
filtered sake. That's my. And cold. I'm going to send you

731
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:12,750
two things when we're done with this when I get back. One is there's an

732
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:16,510
article in the Les Amid event magazine from 1978 about sake.

733
00:44:16,670 --> 00:44:20,030
Okay. It's really interesting. I'll bet it's like. And the title is

734
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:24,990
99% of Americans won't know what you're talking about. And it talks about

735
00:44:24,990 --> 00:44:28,580
it. And then I just did a podcast with a guy who's a. What do

736
00:44:28,580 --> 00:44:31,620
they call a master brewer in Arkansas,

737
00:44:32,180 --> 00:44:35,460
In Arkansas being the number one rice producing state in the country.

738
00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:40,140
Right. So he went to Japan, got trained, which is a great story, and

739
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:43,780
came back and makes domestic chocolate. Wouldn't have thought about Arkansas. I know,

740
00:44:43,780 --> 00:44:47,380
good for him. Like, figure that out. Figure that one out. There's a. So we

741
00:44:47,380 --> 00:44:51,180
dabbled also in Mezcal and we actually had a Mezcal

742
00:44:51,180 --> 00:44:54,660
brand that was pretty successful when we sold it back in November, in fact.

743
00:44:54,970 --> 00:44:58,480
And, and so we spent some time down in Oaxaca. And one of my favorite

744
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,280
restaurants on the planet is a sushi place in Oaxaca. Now this is

745
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,040
a little bit more traditional. Obviously it's sushi, but in Oaxaca it's called

746
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,040
crudo. Right. Which is raw in Spanish. And it's

747
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,600
six seats at a bar and the chef is right there

748
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,520
making one bite of nigori. Every course

749
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,280
is one bite. You sit there for a couple hours, you have a 25 course

750
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,820
dinner. And they pair it with locally sourced

751
00:45:24,820 --> 00:45:28,380
sake. Wow. From Oaxaca of all places. It's

752
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,100
pretty wild. So it's, it's a fun odyssey. And, and the sky's the limit. And

753
00:45:32,100 --> 00:45:35,940
I tell you, in terms of back to innovation and three Badge, it's the

754
00:45:35,940 --> 00:45:39,620
spirits piece that really excites me because you can kind of get outside the

755
00:45:39,620 --> 00:45:43,340
40 yard lines, whereas wine's a lot more traditional. Remember how

756
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:47,100
outrageous screw caps were 15 years ago? Yes. Right.

757
00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:50,930
With spirits, the sky's the limit in terms of, you know, flavor

758
00:45:50,930 --> 00:45:54,770
profile and packaging and bottle shape and

759
00:45:54,770 --> 00:45:58,570
everything. So that's really where we exercise our, our creative

760
00:45:58,570 --> 00:46:00,490
muscles. Think about that for a second. You're right.

761
00:46:01,850 --> 00:46:05,530
Mezcal, when I was growing up in my dad's shop was the worm, you know,

762
00:46:05,930 --> 00:46:09,370
rojo, whatever it was called. Right. And then it became this premium,

763
00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:13,650
very much drink. And a great parallel from wine where you talk about varietal

764
00:46:13,650 --> 00:46:17,000
agave. Yeah. Just like you talk about varietal wine grapes.

765
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,640
And it was a, it was a fun experience. And I don't want to spend

766
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,960
all of our time talking about that, but seems like an example there of the

767
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,680
creativity you're allowed that the, that the market will allow

768
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,000
in spirits that they will not allow in wine. That's right. Our bottle was a

769
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,720
ceramic bottle. You couldn't put wine in a ceramic bottle without

770
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,720
people flipping the tables over, you know, so it was, it's fun that you're,

771
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:40,920
like I said, allowed to kind of spread your wings creatively on the spirit side.

772
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,630
And so we really enjoy it for. That reason on the RTD side. And this

773
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:48,350
is going to be it. I did have somebody on the show. The

774
00:46:48,350 --> 00:46:51,630
product's called Knox and Dobson. I put their

775
00:46:51,630 --> 00:46:55,470
Manhattan and their gin martini up against my homemade ones with my brother,

776
00:46:55,470 --> 00:46:59,230
my son in law's. And I consider Myself an expert at both of these cocktails,

777
00:46:59,710 --> 00:47:03,390
and I barely won. How about that? And because they're going

778
00:47:03,390 --> 00:47:07,110
after that premium. Not the High Noon stuff, but the

779
00:47:07,110 --> 00:47:10,880
premium market, and they're out there pouring it off. You know, what

780
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,000
do you get, a quarter ounce? So we just pour off distilled spirits. Right. You

781
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,320
know, at Whole Foods and Ghosts, wherever they're going. And you know, that

782
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,160
it's really hard work for them because that's all they. That's just them. Sure.

783
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,480
But I can see that it gets. Back to the point I made

784
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,120
earlier. Sometimes you just need something that's easy. Yeah. You know, I could go make

785
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,560
a thing. I don't want to spend 20 minutes making a drink for my buddy.

786
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,360
Let me open it up and. And maybe add some produce. I'll add a,

787
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,800
you know, a piece of fruit or, you know, a zest or something that. That

788
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,540
makes it a little bit more. But it's a lot easier just to pull the

789
00:47:42,540 --> 00:47:45,220
bottle open and give it a pour, and you're off and running, as opposed to

790
00:47:45,220 --> 00:47:48,980
getting the shaker and muddling and going through whatever. You know, I

791
00:47:48,980 --> 00:47:51,940
love it. I don't get me wrong, if I'm up for a cocktail, I want

792
00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:54,060
to sit down. I want it done right. But if I'm at home with some

793
00:47:54,060 --> 00:47:57,060
buddies, sometimes it's easier to just kind of throw it out there. Oh, for sure.

794
00:47:57,380 --> 00:48:01,180
If you. I'm telling you, if you had poured these behind the

795
00:48:01,180 --> 00:48:04,100
bar, turned your back and poured it in the martini glass. You might

796
00:48:04,820 --> 00:48:08,430
know the difference. Yeah. You would not. We're out of time, which was

797
00:48:08,430 --> 00:48:11,550
unbelievable. It was really a lot. That was a lot of fun as well. I

798
00:48:11,550 --> 00:48:14,630
hope we can do it again. I'd love to see what happens next here at

799
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:18,030
3 badge so I can come up and we can talk about that success. I

800
00:48:18,030 --> 00:48:21,870
can get Richard up here next time. In fact, he probably will be. But

801
00:48:22,029 --> 00:48:25,110
this has been great. Thank you very much for having me. Really appreciate it. Cheers.

802
00:48:25,110 --> 00:48:25,630
Cheers.