Robert Foye Has Worked All Across This Globe. Amazing Trek And Landed With The Love Of Wine

1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,800
Your ability to kind of master some of these more

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,480
sophisticated skills, but keep the magic of

3
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,640
what makes your brand special and how you present it.

4
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,040
That's the magic of the wine business and that's what interests me so much more

5
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,800
about it than other businesses where it's just

6
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,240
about the business skill and everything else and less about the storytelling.

7
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,160
Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine

8
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,980
Talks with Paul. Kate. Hey,

9
00:00:29,980 --> 00:00:33,300
welcome to White Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio today in beautiful

10
00:00:33,300 --> 00:00:37,060
Southern California with a little dreary today, but to have a conversation with Robert Foy.

11
00:00:37,060 --> 00:00:40,860
Introductions in just a moment. Hey, have a listen to a show coming out.

12
00:00:40,860 --> 00:00:44,499
It's on under the name Song of America. It's about the

13
00:00:44,499 --> 00:00:47,980
Agonian family who have won INDY, the Indianapolis

14
00:00:47,980 --> 00:00:51,740
500 five times, four times. And it's an incredible story

15
00:00:51,740 --> 00:00:55,580
of immigration to America. And that's what the Song of America is about. But not

16
00:00:55,580 --> 00:00:59,060
why we're here. Here to talk to Robert Foy. Had a great conversation with him

17
00:00:59,060 --> 00:01:02,860
already. Welcome to the show. Great,

18
00:01:03,340 --> 00:01:05,980
Paul, thanks. Kind of a weird thing. Welcome to the show.

19
00:01:07,340 --> 00:01:10,620
And I'm not in studio with you, but I feel like I'm in your studio.

20
00:01:10,620 --> 00:01:14,300
Are you. You go by Bob. Robert.

21
00:01:14,300 --> 00:01:17,100
Yeah. More. Yeah, Robert. Okay. So Robert was the

22
00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:20,300
CEO of Accolade Wines, one of the great

23
00:01:21,420 --> 00:01:25,220
distributors of wine from Australia and to America, other parts of the

24
00:01:25,220 --> 00:01:28,890
world, as well as CEO of Treasury Wine Estates, which you all know

25
00:01:28,890 --> 00:01:32,170
about because they've made some huge news recently with some

26
00:01:32,170 --> 00:01:35,890
acquisitions. But. And I want to talk about some of this

27
00:01:36,130 --> 00:01:39,810
corporate America, part of or corporate part of the wine trade. But we're going to

28
00:01:39,810 --> 00:01:43,450
talk about some of the, some of the states of the industry today and how

29
00:01:43,450 --> 00:01:46,530
you got here. But let's talk about Accolade for a second.

30
00:01:47,010 --> 00:01:50,730
I did some business with Accolade and this was an Australian

31
00:01:50,730 --> 00:01:54,260
based distributor or did they

32
00:01:54,260 --> 00:01:56,140
manufacture too? Of course,

33
00:01:57,820 --> 00:02:01,260
we're the brand owner. Yes, absolutely. So we have about 70

34
00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:04,460
brands and we do everything from

35
00:02:04,940 --> 00:02:07,900
viticulture to winemaking to

36
00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:11,940
filling the bottles to marketing and distributing all over the world. So

37
00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:15,540
complete a full company. When did you

38
00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:19,220
retire? Well, technically

39
00:02:19,220 --> 00:02:22,700
I'm not retired yet. Oh, well, then we'll put you on payroll.

40
00:02:23,260 --> 00:02:26,840
Much interested in work, pa but, but

41
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,520
technically from Accolade Wines as

42
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,120
CEO. I left end of February this year. You know,

43
00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,960
I, I supposedly retired and I had to get out and I want to say

44
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,480
I had to get out to because as you know, the DTC wine market

45
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,080
is suffering greatly here in the States as well as Other parts of the world

46
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,920
in the first quarter of 2023 was looking so great.

47
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,010
But after 35 years, you know, did I want to

48
00:02:53,010 --> 00:02:56,490
regen the company? Did I want to? And I. We were prolific

49
00:02:56,490 --> 00:03:00,010
marketeers, prolific digital marketers. Just

50
00:03:00,010 --> 00:03:03,290
decided not to. But I can't. I don't know how I had time to work.

51
00:03:03,770 --> 00:03:07,530
I'm so busy today, it's like. I

52
00:03:07,530 --> 00:03:11,250
don't know. I don't know where the time went. I know exactly how you

53
00:03:11,250 --> 00:03:14,930
feel. And. And definitely I could flex my total

54
00:03:14,930 --> 00:03:18,690
schedule as needed, depending on how much work I get. But I. But

55
00:03:18,690 --> 00:03:22,530
I'm totally open to a new CEO role. We'll see how that goes. Or

56
00:03:22,530 --> 00:03:26,270
board or. I've got a book I want to write on some of

57
00:03:26,270 --> 00:03:29,110
my experiences in wine and private equity.

58
00:03:30,470 --> 00:03:33,830
And also probably I'll teach an MBA class

59
00:03:34,790 --> 00:03:38,390
on private equity and consumer products and things like that. But

60
00:03:38,790 --> 00:03:42,310
I'm still pretty young, 58, so I've got

61
00:03:42,870 --> 00:03:46,150
at least one more gig inside me if it comes to full time. But I

62
00:03:46,150 --> 00:03:49,880
know exactly what you're talking about. There's certainly enough things to

63
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,520
fill up the time, whether you're working full time or not. You're a kid.

64
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,160
Let's talk about that for a second. And I brought it up, you know, during

65
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,920
COVID Well, first of all, I saw some writing on

66
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,400
the wall pre Covid. So 2000, you know, I started seeing some.

67
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,800
Some saturation, some congestion,

68
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,440
quality issues in the Marketplace somewhere around 2015.

69
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,550
But 2019 wasn't looking all that great, though it

70
00:04:15,550 --> 00:04:19,270
would have been profitable for us. But 2020, of course,

71
00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:23,070
incredible for most wine businesses, particularly people that had a robust E

72
00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:26,150
commerce platform. You know, we were like 30%.

73
00:04:27,190 --> 00:04:30,949
Robert. I could tell you that I could do no wrong during

74
00:04:30,949 --> 00:04:34,670
COVID Whatever I told them to buy, they would buy. They could have been

75
00:04:34,670 --> 00:04:37,750
Burgundy to Napa Cabs to, you know, white

76
00:04:38,150 --> 00:04:41,710
Yellowtail. But it didn't take long, maybe

77
00:04:41,710 --> 00:04:45,430
days, really. Since when Covid ended that the writing

78
00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:48,950
on the wall for the wine trade was starting to be written. What do you

79
00:04:48,950 --> 00:04:52,390
think? What do you think attributed to this, this current

80
00:04:52,390 --> 00:04:55,590
situation that we're in, which is the industry is suffering, Everybody's trying to clamor. If

81
00:04:55,590 --> 00:04:59,350
you listen to LinkedIn gossip, there's a billion reasons why,

82
00:04:59,350 --> 00:05:03,110
but there's a billion solutions that nobody knows how to implement. Where do you

83
00:05:03,110 --> 00:05:06,830
think that came from? Well, it's a really interesting

84
00:05:06,830 --> 00:05:10,550
question. I think the first thing that you got to kind of go back to

85
00:05:11,530 --> 00:05:15,330
as humans, we're very short term, so we kind of look at short term

86
00:05:15,330 --> 00:05:18,890
trends, you know, and is this time different, you know,

87
00:05:19,370 --> 00:05:23,130
than past times? But in reality, if you, if you look at

88
00:05:23,130 --> 00:05:26,929
the long term, I. E. 30 to 50 years, I mean, the wine

89
00:05:26,929 --> 00:05:30,010
trade goes through these cycles. That's the first thing.

90
00:05:30,570 --> 00:05:34,370
And you know, we've had the discussion before, Paul, Wine is here

91
00:05:34,370 --> 00:05:37,450
to stay. It's probably the most

92
00:05:37,450 --> 00:05:40,950
culturally integrated beverage into

93
00:05:40,950 --> 00:05:43,790
humans other than water. Yeah.

94
00:05:44,830 --> 00:05:48,590
And for thousands of years. And it'll be here for the next couple thousands

95
00:05:48,590 --> 00:05:52,390
of years. And it's a fascinating business. But I think these cycles, as,

96
00:05:52,390 --> 00:05:55,909
you know, you know, growth comes in, people get really

97
00:05:55,909 --> 00:05:59,550
excited. Maybe they over invest, you know, the industry over

98
00:05:59,550 --> 00:06:03,270
invests in, in vines and capital and then, you know, something

99
00:06:03,270 --> 00:06:06,870
changes and then it goes the other way and people start taking vines

100
00:06:06,870 --> 00:06:10,530
out and kind of hunkering down. But

101
00:06:10,530 --> 00:06:13,770
with COVID definitely there was that period. I

102
00:06:14,010 --> 00:06:17,610
honestly, I think it was only about 12 to 14 months

103
00:06:18,250 --> 00:06:22,090
where people stocked up at home, especially on red

104
00:06:22,090 --> 00:06:25,890
wine, and kind of got their inventories ready. And

105
00:06:25,890 --> 00:06:29,370
this is the brave new world of, you know, not working in the office.

106
00:06:29,530 --> 00:06:32,370
And every day I might have a glass of wine at five or six o'

107
00:06:32,370 --> 00:06:36,020
clock and that's fine because I've worked all day. And

108
00:06:36,020 --> 00:06:39,780
then Covid ended and I think honestly, it's probably

109
00:06:39,780 --> 00:06:43,380
taken, you know, 12 to 24 months to

110
00:06:43,380 --> 00:06:47,180
get through that. I think we're starting to get through

111
00:06:47,180 --> 00:06:50,660
it now. We do have, as you know, some other

112
00:06:50,660 --> 00:06:54,460
trends of innovation and spirits

113
00:06:54,460 --> 00:06:58,260
and beer and seltzers and all these kinds of

114
00:06:58,260 --> 00:07:02,030
things. We got shifting channels with restaurants

115
00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:05,830
and supermarkets and everything else. And I think all

116
00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:08,790
that has kind of muddied the water a bit. So

117
00:07:09,190 --> 00:07:12,990
definitely we're still in the slowdown. You know, these things

118
00:07:12,990 --> 00:07:16,390
tend to take longer to get through. It might be another

119
00:07:16,629 --> 00:07:20,270
12 or 24 or 36 months. But I think

120
00:07:20,270 --> 00:07:23,750
wine will come back, you know, will it come roaring back

121
00:07:23,750 --> 00:07:27,350
to premium wine growing 8 to 10% a year?

122
00:07:27,690 --> 00:07:31,290
Maybe not, but I don't think it'll be negative growth or

123
00:07:31,290 --> 00:07:35,130
even necessarily flat growth over the next 10 years.

124
00:07:35,930 --> 00:07:39,690
You know, I think you said a mouthful there when it comes

125
00:07:39,690 --> 00:07:43,330
to, you know, the reason why, because wine is historically, and I always

126
00:07:43,330 --> 00:07:46,290
say when I talk to people, I said it yesterday in a podcast as well,

127
00:07:46,290 --> 00:07:49,970
which is there's probably no product in the, on, on the

128
00:07:49,970 --> 00:07:53,370
planet that's as historical or culturally relevant than wine.

129
00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,160
Like, if you were to pick the five elements of a culture, you would take

130
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,560
a language, if the has one land, if they still have it, the

131
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,800
cuisine and that's not always the case.

132
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,400
And then wine is probably one of the top five

133
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,080
representatives of a culture again, if they have, if they have a

134
00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,240
wine trade. So I think you're right. I don't think it's going anywhere.

135
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,160
But it seems deep rooted, like when the, when, when Covet hit.

136
00:08:19,350 --> 00:08:22,110
Let's talk about the Silver Oaks and the Cuses of the world. They would never

137
00:08:22,110 --> 00:08:24,590
speak to a guy like me. They would have in the early days when I

138
00:08:24,590 --> 00:08:28,310
first started working in this business. But as they got more popular, they

139
00:08:28,310 --> 00:08:31,830
didn't need direct to consumer clubs and they didn't need this, the press.

140
00:08:32,630 --> 00:08:36,150
But then they came back and I thought this was fascinating. I told him, I

141
00:08:36,150 --> 00:08:39,350
said, look, you want me to help sell some of your wines during this period

142
00:08:39,350 --> 00:08:42,790
because you were a house poor or you, or at least a buy the glass

143
00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:46,230
program at some restaurant and now there's none, you know, you're not getting any

144
00:08:46,230 --> 00:08:49,870
sales, then don't forget me when you're gone. Okay, so here's the

145
00:08:49,870 --> 00:08:53,430
phenomenon. I sold a ton of Caymus 1 liters, tons of them.

146
00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:57,470
Stopped selling them the day Covid was over. I still have like nine cases here,

147
00:08:57,470 --> 00:09:01,270
the warehouse and, and, and I

148
00:09:01,270 --> 00:09:05,030
was, I was getting, you know, much more than the current retail price was

149
00:09:05,510 --> 00:09:09,110
because of COVID And. But I don't think the restaurants

150
00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:12,550
have recovered completely from what the traffic was

151
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,320
prior to, prior to Covid. I

152
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,160
think that's absolutely right. And again, I think

153
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,640
the restaurant business is in recovery.

154
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,080
It's pretty slow, but it's coming back. I think it will

155
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,840
come back. I think those habits that we kind of built over

156
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,640
those 12 to 18 months of COVID or 24 months, depending on where

157
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,480
you were in the world were real. And some of those are still

158
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,920
kind of there. I, you know, I'm going to be at home more. I'm

159
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,480
going to, you know, cook more, maybe watch Netflix a little

160
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,000
more than I normally would. But I think

161
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,680
again, these trends over time are going to

162
00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:59,320
go back more toward normal, but sometimes it

163
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,960
takes longer than we think. And I was just reading the other day also about

164
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,320
the housing market. Not the housing market, sorry, the office market

165
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,520
in New York and some of these other cities is just now

166
00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,320
starting to get more exciting. And again,

167
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,160
those kind of trends of people back in the office and having the

168
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,520
business dinners and do, you know, and being more

169
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,360
in the city and outside the home, I think that's going to continue

170
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,760
and it will get back to normal, but it's going to take a couple more

171
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,440
years for sure. I have a building here in Monrovia,

172
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,960
had 7,500 square feet of office space. I built them

173
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,400
years ago for a tenant and they moved out. And I

174
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,920
said, you know, I'm going to turn these into executive suites because people are coming

175
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,240
out of this work at home mentality, which

176
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,520
I don't know if you ever tried. I, I can't do it for a

177
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,120
variety of reasons, not the least of which is I'm constantly being called away from

178
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,800
my desk to get something off the top shelf.

179
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,540
But it start, it's filled, it filled up very quickly. A very

180
00:11:01,540 --> 00:11:05,100
reasonable 500 to $1,000 a month for a, you know,

181
00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,780
shared conference room. Two of them, you know, obviously bathrooms, the kitchen, all that

182
00:11:08,780 --> 00:11:12,420
stuff, but nicely done offices. And I, and I

183
00:11:12,420 --> 00:11:15,900
didn't have any prognostication to do this except that the space was

184
00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:19,500
empty. But I think people are coming out now saying

185
00:11:19,660 --> 00:11:23,380
this old, this new methodologies really aren't working for

186
00:11:23,380 --> 00:11:26,380
us. And it's time to do, you know, what we need to do.

187
00:11:27,270 --> 00:11:31,070
Because you've been, how long you been doing this? You talking

188
00:11:31,070 --> 00:11:33,590
about working in general or. 35 years,

189
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:38,310
10 years in wine, 25 in beverages.

190
00:11:39,510 --> 00:11:43,190
So in non, non alcoholic beverages. Prior

191
00:11:43,270 --> 00:11:47,070
Coca Cola company All over the world. Yeah,

192
00:11:47,070 --> 00:11:50,750
we talked about that briefly and I thought that was fascinating. Was there

193
00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:54,460
a, was there a bridge between, you know, consumer goods

194
00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:58,180
like Coca Cola or anything else to, to wine or you just had a fascination

195
00:11:58,180 --> 00:12:01,980
with wine and liquor to. Yeah, yeah. The bridge was called

196
00:12:01,980 --> 00:12:05,620
going to sleep one night and having been a Coke executive for 25 years,

197
00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:09,420
waking up the next morning as a new wine executive and trying to

198
00:12:09,420 --> 00:12:13,220
learn everything about wine. But that's like the Taylor Sellers, is it?

199
00:12:13,780 --> 00:12:17,460
Exactly. There was a natural bridge, I would say

200
00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:21,310
two things. One is when I was at Coke and I was at Coca Cola

201
00:12:21,310 --> 00:12:25,070
for, you know, roughly 24 years all over the world, you know, I

202
00:12:25,070 --> 00:12:28,390
learned how to build a beverage business. I learned everything

203
00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:32,470
from, you know, making a beverage to distributing it,

204
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:36,230
marketing, selling it, you know, building a team, getting,

205
00:12:36,390 --> 00:12:39,830
you know, showing up in a new country and a new job. And how do

206
00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:43,630
you build the business? So that's the first thing. And the second

207
00:12:43,630 --> 00:12:47,210
thing is just all that fmcg, fast

208
00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:50,730
moving consumer goods, consumer CPG knowledge.

209
00:12:51,850 --> 00:12:55,450
And then the opportunity came to move over to Treasury Wine

210
00:12:55,450 --> 00:12:59,250
Estates and move into wine. And

211
00:12:59,250 --> 00:13:02,569
I had looked at all kinds of industries. I had looked at beer, other

212
00:13:02,569 --> 00:13:06,170
beverages, hotels, et cetera, et cetera. And what

213
00:13:06,170 --> 00:13:09,610
I saw at treasury at that time was a

214
00:13:09,610 --> 00:13:12,490
dynamic business. It is a beverage.

215
00:13:13,290 --> 00:13:16,770
The Beverage is quite different. And we could talk about the

216
00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:20,550
magic in the history of winemaking and

217
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:24,350
storytelling, of all the winemaking. And I embrace that. And I thought that was a

218
00:13:24,350 --> 00:13:28,110
really unique part of it. But the other part of it is that the

219
00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:31,430
business still has customers and

220
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:35,230
consumers who, if they can't find your product and can't

221
00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:39,030
buy your product, then you don't sell it. And when they do find your

222
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:42,870
product and it's in this long, huge

223
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:47,330
wine aisle, you know, amongst a thousand other

224
00:13:47,330 --> 00:13:50,810
products, how do they actually notice it? Because of the

225
00:13:50,810 --> 00:13:54,370
packaging and the. And the way you've presented it in

226
00:13:54,370 --> 00:13:58,170
store? And then how does it taste? And does it. Is it

227
00:13:58,170 --> 00:14:01,890
good and does it fit their needs? Can you tell that story?

228
00:14:02,130 --> 00:14:05,930
Is the price right and do they come back and buy it? And that whole

229
00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:09,250
journey is. Is a little bit the same

230
00:14:09,730 --> 00:14:13,210
and a little bit different for wine and Coca Cola and

231
00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:17,020
beverages, but where I looked for where the similarities

232
00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:20,780
were that could actually use in, you know, use in the wine industry

233
00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:24,500
and the wine business. And I also appreciated the

234
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:27,820
differences. You know, it's a lot different to.

235
00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:31,700
To plant a vineyard, grow a wine, put your heart

236
00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:35,420
and soul into it, put it in a barrel for two years,

237
00:14:35,980 --> 00:14:39,700
and then go out and explain to someone what it is and why they

238
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:43,500
should pay so much for it. That's a lot different than, you know,

239
00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:47,100
mixing some ingredients and putting it down a Coca Cola beverage

240
00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:50,860
line, although some of the marketing and sales is similar. So

241
00:14:50,860 --> 00:14:54,220
I think just the appreciation for the industry, the history,

242
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:58,220
and also the curiosity of wanting to learn. And I

243
00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:01,820
always tell the story. When I started with. With. With in wine 10 years

244
00:15:01,820 --> 00:15:05,660
ago, I was kind of an 80% beer, you know,

245
00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:09,380
20% wine guy. And now I'm a, you know,

246
00:15:09,380 --> 00:15:12,940
80%, 90% wine guy. 10, 20% beer

247
00:15:12,940 --> 00:15:16,420
guy. And that's what the wine industry does because it's such a fascinating and

248
00:15:16,420 --> 00:15:20,220
amazing business. That was very articulate because that's really important part

249
00:15:20,220 --> 00:15:24,060
of what we do and how we land here as well. Were you. Were you

250
00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:27,820
at Coke, let's say, 88, 89? I guess so, Yes,

251
00:15:27,820 --> 00:15:30,420
I was. Do you know where you were at that time?

252
00:15:32,020 --> 00:15:34,740
Sorry, I was not. I started in

253
00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:38,590
1992. I'm sorry. Yeah, so it might have been around

254
00:15:38,590 --> 00:15:41,390
that time. A quick story then. I want to ask you a question about some

255
00:15:41,390 --> 00:15:45,230
of this. But they were into wine trade for. Didn't they own Sterling Vineyards and

256
00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:48,910
they owned Taylor Sellers and a few other. That's absolutely right. Yeah. And

257
00:15:48,990 --> 00:15:52,670
the wor. I think the worst place for A wine business is probably

258
00:15:52,670 --> 00:15:55,070
a corporate conglomerate. Yeah.

259
00:15:57,870 --> 00:16:01,270
The reason I brought it up is my. My wife's uncle has passed away since,

260
00:16:01,270 --> 00:16:04,860
was the inventor of the spoon straw and the flexi straw mit,

261
00:16:04,940 --> 00:16:08,540
you know, type guy. But he had sold his

262
00:16:08,540 --> 00:16:12,340
company to Coca Cola. It was called Wink. Then they merged them

263
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:16,100
with a company called Winkler Products. And they were making plastic plates and stuff and

264
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:19,740
Coca Cola. But one of his tasks was to create the synthetic

265
00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:23,380
cork for the Taylor Sellers. Three, I think they're three

266
00:16:23,380 --> 00:16:27,140
liters or one and a half liter. You know, the Gallo rivalry back

267
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:30,900
then for the Rhine wine and the Hardy Burgundy and stuff like that. And we,

268
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:34,500
I made a deal with Coca Cola and I gotta go find the contract and

269
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:38,340
that was to take over. And we found the molds for these, for the

270
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:42,100
synthetic corks for the bar caps in here in El Monte, Southern

271
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:45,620
California. And we went and looked at them and they were still had virgin plastic

272
00:16:45,620 --> 00:16:49,220
in the hoppers ready to make corks. And I made a deal with

273
00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:52,980
Coca Cola to get. They were going to skim off the top, give me the

274
00:16:52,980 --> 00:16:55,780
product, give me everything that they had. And I was going to set it up

275
00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:57,980
and then start making synthetic corks. This is before

276
00:16:59,970 --> 00:17:03,730
they were popular. And we won't get into the details of the engineering

277
00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:06,850
problems that the other ones had, but Coke had figured it out

278
00:17:07,490 --> 00:17:11,250
and my uncle had figured it out, and so they had a superior cork product

279
00:17:11,330 --> 00:17:14,929
long before synthetic corks were even used. And

280
00:17:14,930 --> 00:17:18,450
I suppose that's part of the, part of your comment,

281
00:17:18,530 --> 00:17:22,330
sometimes corporate America, the conglomerate gets in. This gets in

282
00:17:22,330 --> 00:17:25,620
the way of its own feet, you know, just stumbles on its own feet. But

283
00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:29,460
let me ask this question. Coca Cola, all

284
00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:33,220
those beverages that they made, is for everybody. Every person in the world is

285
00:17:33,220 --> 00:17:37,020
a potential customer of a can of Coke or a bottle

286
00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:40,540
of Coke. But wine, you know, if you, if you ask the, the

287
00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:44,340
Institute here in America, you know, 25% of the people would

288
00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:47,940
raise their hand if you ask them, do you drink wine? It's a considerably

289
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:50,060
different marketplace to, to address.

290
00:17:51,910 --> 00:17:55,470
It is. But the first question I would ask too

291
00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:59,190
is, you know, 25% of the

292
00:17:59,190 --> 00:18:03,030
people would raise their hand. But what about during their whole life? And

293
00:18:03,030 --> 00:18:06,829
people kind of, you know, move through different beverages during their whole

294
00:18:06,829 --> 00:18:10,630
life. And one of the things you and I talked about was the young consumer,

295
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:14,350
for instance, and the fact that, you know, they're more

296
00:18:14,350 --> 00:18:17,430
open to having cocktails and spirits and,

297
00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:21,980
you know, low alcohol beer, et cetera, et cetera. And

298
00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:25,740
I think that's great. And that's part of innovation in beverages and alcohol.

299
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:30,020
But as those younger consumers age and get more

300
00:18:30,020 --> 00:18:33,500
money and also get more into food

301
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:38,620
and cuisine, as you mentioned, and

302
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:42,460
you know, they're going to get more into wine and wine will slowly creep

303
00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:46,140
into more of their offerings. So I think,

304
00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:49,820
I think, you know, there's always the snapshot of who the consumer is today,

305
00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:54,180
but there's always that journey. And, and that's what

306
00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:57,740
also makes wine very interesting, is that, you know, with

307
00:18:57,740 --> 00:19:01,260
Coca Cola you kind of learn how to drink it earlier in your life

308
00:19:01,340 --> 00:19:04,980
and then you kind of practice not drink or drinking it

309
00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:08,780
less as you get older and, and substituting things for it.

310
00:19:08,860 --> 00:19:12,700
And wine's the exact opposite. You kind of, you kind of take your first drink,

311
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:16,630
you know, and then you either fall in love with it or, oh, you know,

312
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:20,150
I, I like other things right now. But as you age and get older and

313
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:23,990
get a bit more sophisticated with your palate and cuisine and, and

314
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:27,670
experiences also I think you're much more open to wine. And that's the,

315
00:19:27,670 --> 00:19:31,470
that's the journey you got to figure out as a, you know, selling your

316
00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:34,830
products and marketing your products is how do you get some of those consumers as

317
00:19:34,830 --> 00:19:38,430
well. That's really interesting. I had a conversation with an

318
00:19:38,430 --> 00:19:42,020
MW who's been studying the palate and the, and

319
00:19:42,020 --> 00:19:45,580
gastronomy and its relationship, and he was saying that there's some

320
00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:49,900
studies now that show that, that at least in

321
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:53,700
the wine sector, that if you start out drinking the entry level stuff, the

322
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,300
slightly sweet stuff, the Josh's and the apothic reds, that eventually you get

323
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:01,100
your pallet gets bored of that and you learn that the

324
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,820
complexity and you know, what makes a fine wines a

325
00:20:04,820 --> 00:20:08,540
fine basically. And I, and I reflect on what you're saying.

326
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:12,860
Do you agree with me that most generations eventually,

327
00:20:13,180 --> 00:20:17,020
maybe at different times in their lifespan, come to that glass

328
00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:20,860
of wine that they go, this is kind of interesting in,

329
00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:24,300
in bulk, obviously not 100 of a generation, but there's a

330
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:27,980
movement like the baby boomers a little earlier than I think that the millennials were

331
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:31,980
and certainly with the Gen Z's are when they realize that this,

332
00:20:32,430 --> 00:20:36,190
this is a very special beverage. I would 100%

333
00:20:36,190 --> 00:20:39,950
agree with you. And I think, you know, again, as you,

334
00:20:40,830 --> 00:20:43,550
you have to look at how people kind of operate

335
00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:47,590
as they age and how they get more interested in

336
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:51,310
experiences, cuisine, all that kind of stuff. And

337
00:20:51,310 --> 00:20:54,350
I think wine just fits totally into that. And I think

338
00:20:54,910 --> 00:20:58,510
definitely the amount of wine consumed goes up

339
00:20:58,510 --> 00:21:02,060
as you age, especially, you know, when you start getting, I would

340
00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:05,860
Say, into your late 40s, early 50s and

341
00:21:05,860 --> 00:21:09,580
beyond. It does. You know, tonight, I think I. I'm sorry

342
00:21:09,580 --> 00:21:13,220
I had to postpone this call from yesterday. Had lunch

343
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:16,700
with Pio Cesareo Cesare, and had an incredible

344
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:20,260
Barolos, but only

345
00:21:20,260 --> 00:21:24,100
because tonight I'm having a dinner with some friends, and we had visited Cesare

346
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:27,840
Pio Cesare together in Piemonte, just not just a few months ago. And

347
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,680
I wanted to express that, but I was thinking about what I was going to

348
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,480
tell them. This is 12 people in total. And I think the

349
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,320
concept was that my little speech was going to be about,

350
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,360
you know, wine creates this conduit

351
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,800
to the human soul that. That we want to share.

352
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,360
Like, you don't want to share a glass of Sprite and talk about Sprite

353
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,620
or even Jack Daniels or, you know, or a, you know,

354
00:21:53,620 --> 00:21:56,700
Heineken. But you do want to share the cultural

355
00:21:58,060 --> 00:22:01,700
differences, the expression, the. The

356
00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,940
thought process you have when you taste a glass of wine.

357
00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:08,860
And I got a chance to taste some pretty special Barolos yesterday and bring them

358
00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:12,580
tonight to the party so we can have that discussion again. Is anything

359
00:22:12,580 --> 00:22:16,300
that you think of evoke such memory

360
00:22:17,340 --> 00:22:21,090
about culture, about, you know, where you're at when you

361
00:22:21,090 --> 00:22:24,650
were at and what you felt when it happened? Yeah, absolutely not.

362
00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:28,490
And I think it's just.

363
00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:32,490
It's hard to explain to people, but they start to get it when they experience

364
00:22:32,490 --> 00:22:35,970
it themselves. You know, I can ask

365
00:22:35,970 --> 00:22:39,610
anybody at any time, hey, would you like to have a dinner? I've got this

366
00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:43,370
interesting wine and, you know, unless they're. Unless they don't

367
00:22:43,370 --> 00:22:46,980
drink alcohol or they're just, you know, not

368
00:22:46,980 --> 00:22:50,500
interested in wine. 100%, you know, the

369
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:54,300
response rate's like 97. Absolutely. We can reschedule

370
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,980
it. That's pretty good. And it is. And if you notice. If you notice

371
00:22:57,980 --> 00:23:01,740
a wine dinner, too, it's quite interesting. You know, the first

372
00:23:01,740 --> 00:23:05,460
kind of 30 minutes are, you know, can be fun and

373
00:23:05,460 --> 00:23:09,300
interesting and stuff, but it's not nearly as fun as

374
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,940
the last 30 minutes after everybody had two or three glasses.

375
00:23:13,820 --> 00:23:17,620
And. And they always say that, you know, wine, obviously, in moderation,

376
00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:20,780
but wine, you know, in those discussions

377
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:24,780
become richer and more interesting. And I think it has

378
00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:28,460
to do with, you know, it actually does help, you

379
00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:31,020
know, the thinking process or at least

380
00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:35,420
unleashing a bit more creativity and talkativity

381
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:39,740
in the conversation. And. And, you know, rarely do I have a

382
00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:43,580
dinner now if both parties or all the

383
00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:47,300
people there, a couple glasses of wine that I find not very

384
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:51,140
interesting. Well, there's always something that comes out and I think

385
00:23:51,140 --> 00:23:54,900
that's part of it. And you had mentioned those, those parts of culture, you

386
00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:58,380
know, land, cuisine, wine, you know,

387
00:23:58,380 --> 00:24:01,900
family, a few other things. But if you think about it, wine actually

388
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:05,660
then intersects with land and cuisine and

389
00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:09,740
probably some of the other things as well. So it really does

390
00:24:09,740 --> 00:24:13,340
become part of your life. And, and also if you look at

391
00:24:13,340 --> 00:24:17,170
people who move into the wine business and really

392
00:24:17,170 --> 00:24:20,850
start to understand it, and this might be true for spirits and, and beer as

393
00:24:20,850 --> 00:24:24,530
well, but I think it's especially true for wine. They never want to

394
00:24:24,530 --> 00:24:28,010
leave the industry because it's so interesting and, and the

395
00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:31,690
thoughts of having those dinners and not, not being able

396
00:24:31,690 --> 00:24:34,090
to share those experiences over wine,

397
00:24:35,290 --> 00:24:39,050
you know, become something they're not, not as interested in. It sounds like,

398
00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:42,820
you know, it sounds like you, you different career path than

399
00:24:42,980 --> 00:24:46,700
mine was. I did work for corporate America in a different product, a very

400
00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:50,500
large corporation. But when I started in, in

401
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:53,980
wine, you were Talking about being 70 beer and 30 wine when you started in

402
00:24:53,980 --> 00:24:57,380
the trade. And I, my father came to me and said,

403
00:24:57,620 --> 00:25:00,540
I'm going to sell wine of the Month club. Do you, you want to take

404
00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:03,860
a look at it now? At that time I was in software and I said,

405
00:25:03,860 --> 00:25:07,510
sure. So I start packing and charging credit cards and, and

406
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:11,190
for me it was business. We were direct to consumer mail order company

407
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:14,510
back then. There was no Internet. We, we mailed stuff, you know, we had,

408
00:25:14,670 --> 00:25:17,230
I was doing a million pieces of mail a year,

409
00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:21,950
but it took about 10 years, maybe more for me

410
00:25:22,110 --> 00:25:25,870
to realize that this community is so special and

411
00:25:25,870 --> 00:25:29,270
the product is so special. And now I wave the flag of the

412
00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:32,910
romantic side of our wine, even though it's still business.

413
00:25:33,770 --> 00:25:37,490
And speaking of that, so we're into this, you know, Constellation. I don't know if

414
00:25:37,490 --> 00:25:41,130
they did sell their wine portfolio, but they were talking about

415
00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:44,850
selling their wine portfolio and you were talking about corporate, you

416
00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:48,650
know, corporate conglomerates are probably not a place for a winer

417
00:25:48,650 --> 00:25:52,090
to be. But why do you think it became an important

418
00:25:52,570 --> 00:25:56,010
piece of places like Constellation, Diageo and those things? What,

419
00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:59,610
what was the allure for them? Because the margins aren't that great.

420
00:26:00,270 --> 00:26:02,830
Yeah, I don't know so much about Diageo,

421
00:26:04,110 --> 00:26:07,950
but I do know about Constellation and, and I, you know this story

422
00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:11,670
as well, that basically they started with wine. It

423
00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:15,510
was a country that was started, you know, in New

424
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:19,270
York selling New York wine and then, and

425
00:26:19,270 --> 00:26:22,830
then kind of expanded from there and that, you know, I won't go through the

426
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:26,270
whole story, which I'm sure you and your listeners are kind of familiar with, but

427
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:31,070
because of how well they did on expanding that wine

428
00:26:31,070 --> 00:26:34,070
portfolio and doing distribution the right way.

429
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:37,590
And I've never worked at Constellation, but

430
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:42,629
they got the ability to distribute some beer brands, which we all

431
00:26:42,629 --> 00:26:46,390
know Corona was the first one

432
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:51,030
in Modelo and Pacifico and some other ones. And then that business

433
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:54,990
became much bigger and more profitable than the wine

434
00:26:54,990 --> 00:26:58,670
business. They still expanded the wine business a lot and they tried to

435
00:26:58,670 --> 00:27:02,510
premiumize. But you're right, they've. They've basically sold

436
00:27:02,510 --> 00:27:06,110
off twice. They, they sold off their really

437
00:27:06,110 --> 00:27:09,790
cheapest brands about eight, nine years

438
00:27:09,790 --> 00:27:13,310
ago, sorry, about five or six years ago.

439
00:27:13,630 --> 00:27:16,910
And then they just sold another tranche of brands

440
00:27:18,550 --> 00:27:22,270
literally announced last month. And now they're left

441
00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:25,590
with just some very, I think, premium brands.

442
00:27:25,910 --> 00:27:29,710
But I think for their business. Now we, we were talking about the

443
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:33,390
conglomerate just the way that it's developed. And it's probably been

444
00:27:33,390 --> 00:27:36,870
hard for them to sell those wine brands because, you know, that's how they started.

445
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:41,070
But in reality, the margins aren't as good as their beer business. They

446
00:27:41,070 --> 00:27:43,990
don't have as much scale, they don't have as much market share.

447
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:48,820
And it just becomes a business decision, I think, and you just

448
00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:52,460
gotta go with it. But those wine brands, I think going to

449
00:27:52,460 --> 00:27:56,140
other players, if they, if they give

450
00:27:56,140 --> 00:27:59,900
them the attention and focus that maybe

451
00:27:59,900 --> 00:28:03,660
a conglomerate can't give, it could, could do quite well. So we'll see.

452
00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:07,300
There's always the positives and negatives of those things. Well, I

453
00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:11,040
think that's accurate. I think that, you know, with

454
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,680
the consolidation of distributors worldwide, at least in America, there's a huge

455
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,480
consolidation. I haven't decided whether

456
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,120
that's good or bad for the consumer. And I think in general it's good for

457
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,560
the consumer, the regular consumer. And for the fine wine

458
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,680
collector and those guys, I don't think it's as good. But, but for the general

459
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,480
consumer, who's who. And I read something this morning about how

460
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,570
a brand, if you're going to brand something, you need

461
00:28:38,970 --> 00:28:42,650
forgot how many touch points on four different platforms. Let's face it,

462
00:28:42,730 --> 00:28:46,370
you know, space ads, you know, running ads in

463
00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:50,130
newspapers, magazines and TV ads for liquor and wine. Just, you know, they're,

464
00:28:50,130 --> 00:28:53,770
they're passe and they don't work. There's no more Bewitched, you know, Larry

465
00:28:53,770 --> 00:28:57,490
Tates of the world. Right, right. And so you have to be

466
00:28:57,490 --> 00:29:01,140
on social and damned if you. And damned if you don't, because if you, you're

467
00:29:01,140 --> 00:29:03,500
not going to see the ROI there. But if you don't do it, you're not

468
00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:06,820
going to be anybody. So it's sort of a tough situation. But just to brand

469
00:29:06,820 --> 00:29:10,420
something, you have to be, you know, you have. There's so many touch points

470
00:29:10,420 --> 00:29:14,020
with a consumer on so many different platforms before they believe your brand.

471
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:18,260
And I think the horsepower behind the conglomerate gets you that.

472
00:29:18,260 --> 00:29:21,980
Right. That's why these brands grow so quickly in a, in a

473
00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:25,820
store. But at the same time, these boutique wineries in

474
00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:29,200
Napa and Bordeaux and wherever, you know, they're, they're

475
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,840
slugging it out right now. They're having a. Yeah, they're having a pretty tough time.

476
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,960
Yeah. But I think, I think the advantage of the smaller players

477
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,680
is potentially just more that, you

478
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,280
know, premium and more that kind of

479
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,280
blocking and tackling on, on, on

480
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,120
building a premium brand versus, you know,

481
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,920
kind of the more, like you said, the more common ways of doing it.

482
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,680
So I think that that can be quite interesting. Do you think, do

483
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,800
you think the world of. And I asked this question of an Armenian winemaker the

484
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,440
other day because, you know, I mean, it's like this very

485
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,680
young industry, even though it's been around for 6,000 years, as far as

486
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,120
contemporary products and contemporary manufacturing.

487
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,520
But do you think the, do you think the days of I'm

488
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,040
a good surgeon and I'm retiring and I have a billion dollars or

489
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,400
I'm, you know, government contract, I used to build freeways and

490
00:30:26,180 --> 00:30:29,420
love the wine. I really love my wine. I want to go to Napa and

491
00:30:29,420 --> 00:30:33,100
I want to start a chateau and buy the best winemaker and, and,

492
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:35,700
and then, you know, have my own brand. Do you think those days are over

493
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:39,340
as far as, like, even an expectation of a

494
00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:42,180
profit? Definitely not.

495
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:46,020
Well, I think we're not what I expected.

496
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:50,340
Absolutely. I think we're in a cycle again. You know, it's

497
00:30:50,340 --> 00:30:53,220
a bit of a tough time, so everybody kind of retrenches

498
00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:57,610
again. You go back to that experience if you're a billionaire and

499
00:30:57,930 --> 00:31:01,210
you want to start, you know, kind of the next phase of your life or

500
00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:05,530
kind of expand a bit and want to share experiences. You know,

501
00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:09,330
getting a winery and trying to work on it is one of the most

502
00:31:09,330 --> 00:31:12,650
interesting things that you can do. It's funny you mentioned Armenian

503
00:31:12,650 --> 00:31:16,410
winemaker, because I just had a bottle, I forgot the brand name last,

504
00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:20,210
last week of a, of a red, Armenian red. It was quite good,

505
00:31:20,210 --> 00:31:23,700
actually, and for the price, it was amazing. And I, I,

506
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:27,540
I've never tried an Armenian wine before. I would like

507
00:31:27,540 --> 00:31:30,900
to share one with you. I have a, I have a few of my favorites.

508
00:31:31,460 --> 00:31:34,860
Yeah, we can share that and some of your other wines that you

509
00:31:34,860 --> 00:31:36,660
mentioned earlier in the podcast.

510
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:41,900
Well, I was just an Armenian. I shot. I had three days of shooting with

511
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:45,700
some winemakers together. I'll send you the reel. It's. We are

512
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:49,450
raising money for the local. A TV station, but the content

513
00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:52,690
came out really good. And the people I spoke with are really interesting.

514
00:31:53,410 --> 00:31:57,250
And I think of the. The five best wine brands in

515
00:31:57,250 --> 00:32:00,890
America, in Armenia. But that's a tough racket. I mean, we're talking about unknown

516
00:32:00,890 --> 00:32:04,450
region. In fact, one of the. One of the gentlemen says

517
00:32:05,730 --> 00:32:09,330
the. The tough thing is we're unknown grapes from an unknown place.

518
00:32:09,650 --> 00:32:13,410
Totally. It is. And the cool thing is it's an unknown

519
00:32:13,410 --> 00:32:17,010
grape from an unknown region. Exactly. If you get people to try

520
00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:20,310
it. Yeah. You know, back to question about the. The

521
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:24,110
billionaires buying. There's another thing that's going on which I know you're familiar

522
00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:27,550
with, is private equity has bought quite a bit of wine. True.

523
00:32:27,630 --> 00:32:31,470
Recently, as you know. Interesting point. Sycamore

524
00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:35,150
bought Shadow St. Michelle for, you know,

525
00:32:35,710 --> 00:32:39,470
a fairly large amount of money. That was about three, four,

526
00:32:39,630 --> 00:32:43,030
three years ago. Yeah. Butterfly just bought

527
00:32:43,030 --> 00:32:46,100
Duckhorn for 1.9 billion. Yeah.

528
00:32:47,140 --> 00:32:50,660
Silver Oak has a major investment from private equity.

529
00:32:51,460 --> 00:32:55,220
So actually, those kinds of

530
00:32:55,220 --> 00:32:58,780
investments tends to tell me we might be at the

531
00:32:58,780 --> 00:33:02,500
cycle low because, of

532
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:06,220
course, those private equity investors want to return on their money,

533
00:33:06,220 --> 00:33:10,060
and they're not going to be buying into an industry that doesn't

534
00:33:10,060 --> 00:33:13,380
have much prospects. So I think. I think we might sit here,

535
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:17,060
I'll make a date with you to do another podcast in three years,

536
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:21,300
and we might be talking about totally different things and trends in the

537
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:24,860
wine business being much more positive. But I think that that private

538
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:28,660
equity investment's interesting as well. That's a huge point

539
00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:32,500
about people putting money into it now when they see what's going. I mean,

540
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:35,860
there's no mystery about it. I was talking to a restaurateur yesterday. He says I'm

541
00:33:35,860 --> 00:33:39,510
down my wine bottle sales are down 40% and he's actually

542
00:33:39,510 --> 00:33:42,070
revamping the whole thing. I want to talk about that for a second to see

543
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:45,630
what you think of this. But one of my litmus tests, as I was

544
00:33:45,630 --> 00:33:49,390
here, you know, you know, sending 33 million emails out,

545
00:33:49,390 --> 00:33:53,150
you know, in 2022. One of the litmus tests I

546
00:33:53,150 --> 00:33:55,990
had here about what was going on in the industry wasn't only just my consumers

547
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:58,870
and people I was talking to and how they responded to what we were doing.

548
00:33:58,870 --> 00:34:01,710
One of them was how many calls I got for.

549
00:34:02,590 --> 00:34:05,900
I think I got 750 an hour to talk to.

550
00:34:06,380 --> 00:34:10,060
Not private equity, because I never knew where they're coming from, but these services

551
00:34:10,140 --> 00:34:13,940
that. That will go do research for somebody interested in getting into

552
00:34:13,940 --> 00:34:17,020
any industry. And I had my name in the hat. And so

553
00:34:17,420 --> 00:34:19,900
I. That was a very interesting

554
00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:24,500
test of what was going on. And it usually was the first quarter of the

555
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,620
year, and I would get seven or eight of these calls, and each one had

556
00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:31,469
a different thing. I haven't had a call like that. I

557
00:34:31,469 --> 00:34:35,229
don't know, it's been three or four years. But there was a while there

558
00:34:35,229 --> 00:34:38,469
where I was getting them every first quarter for four or five years, you know,

559
00:34:38,469 --> 00:34:42,069
and it was kind of. Kind of fun, you know, I'll do it. 700 bucks

560
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:45,909
an hour. Why not? You know? Anyway, so here's. Here's a thought I

561
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:49,429
was thinking about. When it comes to this gentleman that was telling me his

562
00:34:49,429 --> 00:34:53,229
restaurant was down 40. And I floated this idea to him, and

563
00:34:53,229 --> 00:34:57,069
he's kind of cringed at it. I still think it's valid because

564
00:34:57,069 --> 00:35:00,389
there's a whole thing about the language of wine. It's intimidating.

565
00:35:01,540 --> 00:35:05,380
And as a side note, I'm going to go back to the

566
00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:09,100
wines. The Les Ami Devant. This patch here had a

567
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:12,580
magazine in the 70s, and I'm going to start reading old articles. I have a

568
00:35:12,580 --> 00:35:16,340
whole bunch of them about what people were talking about then,

569
00:35:16,660 --> 00:35:20,300
not only about the industry, but how they were talking about wine. Like, Michael

570
00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:23,940
Broadbent used a different set of terms than my father did to their friends

571
00:35:24,260 --> 00:35:27,950
or whatever. And now they're now the pundits

572
00:35:27,950 --> 00:35:30,710
on the social order say, well, we got to change the language of wine, which

573
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:33,310
makes no sense to me because I'm not going to understand the language either way.

574
00:35:34,110 --> 00:35:37,870
But one of the things is, like the presentation, some of the innovation, you used

575
00:35:37,870 --> 00:35:41,590
the word earlier of wine would be how we present to the

576
00:35:41,590 --> 00:35:45,350
consumer. Maybe that's innovation, maybe it isn't. And my wife and I

577
00:35:45,350 --> 00:35:49,030
were walking in Hermosa beach the other day. We saw a restaurant sign, and the

578
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:52,280
menu for wine or the Katuva, said

579
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,240
bold and aggressive, light and fluffy, Easy drinking. And

580
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:01,040
had had the wines instead of saying Cabernet Merlot. Yeah, yeah. And

581
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,400
I asked my. My wife, even though she'd been around it and was the controller

582
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,000
here for 25 years, she doesn't really, you know, she's not academically

583
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,040
attuned to wine. I said, does it make any sense to you? Does it change

584
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,120
your opinion of what this list is about? She says, I don't even know what

585
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,520
it means. And I thought, okay, that's kind of

586
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,210
interesting. Somebody changed the language. Yeah. And it still

587
00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:24,930
doesn't resonate with somebody. Yeah, I think, I think what you're

588
00:36:24,930 --> 00:36:28,170
describing, I've seen those wine menus as well is, is again

589
00:36:29,210 --> 00:36:32,850
probably an attempt to get that 25 to 35 year

590
00:36:32,850 --> 00:36:36,250
old interested in buying a glass of wine rather than a

591
00:36:36,250 --> 00:36:39,370
Manhattan or an Old Fashioned or, or

592
00:36:40,090 --> 00:36:43,450
espresso martini. So,

593
00:36:43,940 --> 00:36:47,340
you know, it's a little bit of that. You know, when I think about, when

594
00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:51,140
I, when I look at, you know, a wine menu with the

595
00:36:51,140 --> 00:36:54,780
food, I think it can be kind of interesting if

596
00:36:54,780 --> 00:36:58,260
you, if you can find a simple way to explain the

597
00:36:58,420 --> 00:37:02,220
matchings with the food, especially for someone who doesn't know. But

598
00:37:02,220 --> 00:37:05,900
I think, but I think it's more interesting to let people know, you

599
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:09,420
know, that you've got variety on the

600
00:37:09,420 --> 00:37:13,260
menu and there's, and it's not overly complex, but there's

601
00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:16,920
places they can go and they can just get a great glass of wine and

602
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,400
if, if they want, you know, sparkling versus a white

603
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,440
versus a ros or even a red with food that you

604
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,160
normally wouldn't have it with, that, that they're going to get their,

605
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,960
you know, they're going to get a great taste and great wine for the, for

606
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,680
the value. And I think that's really important. And I think

607
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,520
on those menus also what I've noticed is when you are,

608
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,720
when you can offer the, the premium and super premium

609
00:37:43,420 --> 00:37:46,540
and then your entry levels are still high quality,

610
00:37:46,940 --> 00:37:50,700
you're gonna get people who trade up and, and spend more. And

611
00:37:50,940 --> 00:37:54,700
I think there's a way to do that. But, but you gotta do it in

612
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:58,420
a way that's not confusing and, and you gotta be a bit careful

613
00:37:58,420 --> 00:38:02,180
on the land. That's the part. So that just let, that just, that gave me

614
00:38:02,180 --> 00:38:06,020
a thought because everybody, you know, I, I think the aristocracy of

615
00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:09,710
wine is, is overplayed and most

616
00:38:09,710 --> 00:38:13,390
people are intimidated by the subject. But like you

617
00:38:13,390 --> 00:38:17,070
said, the, no matter whether novices or collectors,

618
00:38:17,550 --> 00:38:20,750
when you had that first glass or two at dinner time, the conversation

619
00:38:21,310 --> 00:38:25,149
always turns to the glass of wine. And it is generally not

620
00:38:25,149 --> 00:38:28,950
intimidating as I expect tonight to be, even though I can sense

621
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:32,350
much more in the wine than my friends will there. It's, we're gonna have a

622
00:38:32,350 --> 00:38:35,950
great conversation about it. It sort of breaks the barrier down of that.

623
00:38:36,210 --> 00:38:40,050
I'm thinking about flying out to join you tonight, but. Yeah, you should because

624
00:38:41,010 --> 00:38:44,690
some single vineyard, Barolos. Okay. But

625
00:38:45,250 --> 00:38:49,090
I was in Palermo only, God, it seems like

626
00:38:49,090 --> 00:38:52,850
10 days ago and the bet. And this is

627
00:38:52,850 --> 00:38:56,450
the part. Let me see if I can articulate this. It was the best

628
00:38:56,450 --> 00:39:00,130
wine service I'd ever been exposed

629
00:39:00,130 --> 00:39:03,700
to. And I was thinking, man,

630
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,260
but even though wine's intimidating to a lot of people, when you see this

631
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:10,540
guy work and you see the passion he put into serving you this glass of

632
00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:14,380
wine, whether it was, you know, a 50, a €50 bottle off

633
00:39:14,380 --> 00:39:17,340
the menu or it was a €200 bottle, didn't matter to him.

634
00:39:18,140 --> 00:39:21,740
He was so passionate about it. It's an Albanian guy in Palermo. So figured that

635
00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:25,500
one out. But then I started thinking, well, maybe that's. But that

636
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:29,310
is the important part of, of the culture of wine and that it might be

637
00:39:29,310 --> 00:39:32,910
intimidating to some people, but when you, when you watch it and you see the

638
00:39:32,910 --> 00:39:35,590
passion, you realize there's something very special about this.

639
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:39,910
And then I'm going to flip it over. This. I was ask your opinion of,

640
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:43,670
I think grocery outlet here in America just came out with the second

641
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:47,030
cheapest bottle. You heard of this? No, I haven't.

642
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:51,110
Well, so, you know, so the commercial goes like this. There's a guy sitting at

643
00:39:51,110 --> 00:39:53,750
the thing and he's looking at the menu and he tells his wife, I'm going

644
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:56,740
to get the second cheapest. Like, that's like, I'm not going to get the cheapest

645
00:39:56,740 --> 00:40:00,260
because of how intimidating, how stupid I look to buy the cheapest bottle. But I

646
00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:02,460
don't want to get the most expensive because that's too expensive. But if I get

647
00:40:02,460 --> 00:40:05,900
the second cheapest, I look like I know what I'm talking about. So they came

648
00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:07,860
out with a brand called second cheapest bottle.

649
00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:14,860
Well, I used to employ that strategy when I was younger, the second cheapest. But

650
00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:18,340
I didn't want anybody to know I was employing it. Yeah, that's right. I don't

651
00:40:18,340 --> 00:40:21,610
know if I would buy the label that says it, but I definitely did it.

652
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,200
You know, there was a brand that we used to be called and it didn't

653
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,560
last very long, but it was first bottle, second bottle, third bottle. And the

654
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,360
quality would decrease as you went on, because as the, as you went

655
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,200
to the up the rung or down the rung because you didn't care

656
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,040
as much if you're on the third bottle. It's funny you say

657
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,880
that. I actually like to go the other way around. I start. Yeah, I want

658
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,000
to finish with the best stuff. Because if you've had the best stuff and then

659
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,730
you drank something well after that. Oh, my goodness. I don't like

660
00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:54,530
that. I totally agree with that. Yeah, let's

661
00:40:54,530 --> 00:40:57,770
shift to the business side for a second. We're almost out of time actually. Yeah,

662
00:40:57,850 --> 00:41:01,130
that's fine. But you know, you, you, I was listening to the podcast you had

663
00:41:01,130 --> 00:41:04,810
with Emily Steckenborn on Bottled in China and we were talking about leadership

664
00:41:04,810 --> 00:41:07,930
skills and in this brand. Have you seen a shift in

665
00:41:08,410 --> 00:41:12,210
what it takes to. And you, you've done

666
00:41:12,210 --> 00:41:16,000
this all over the world. Have you seen a shift or are

667
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,720
the principles the same as they've always been when it comes to corporate management and

668
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,320
working with people in this trade? I think

669
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,240
it, I have seen a shift. It's probably hasn't

670
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,440
changed the basics, but the speed

671
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,440
and the breadth of what you need to get

672
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,960
involved in to make a successful wine business, I think has changed.

673
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,620
And I think that's because now you've got, you know, direct to consumer.

674
00:41:43,260 --> 00:41:46,780
Now you've got much more sophisticated retailers and

675
00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:50,580
distributors. You know, the, the basics

676
00:41:50,580 --> 00:41:54,380
of, of getting the right team in place, driving

677
00:41:55,020 --> 00:41:58,860
your brands into the places you want to

678
00:41:58,860 --> 00:42:02,540
be and presenting them the right way. That's a very high level way of saying

679
00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:06,380
it. But, you know, whether that's a grocery store or a high end

680
00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:10,180
restaurant, you know, white tablecloth restaurant or, or on a

681
00:42:10,180 --> 00:42:13,990
site, you know, the ability to do that I

682
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:17,710
think takes a little bit of new set of skills and

683
00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:20,270
a little bit of new set of sophistication

684
00:42:21,630 --> 00:42:25,070
without losing the magic of the story

685
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:28,950
and the history of the product and that. And it's balancing

686
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:32,470
those two things, I think that really can

687
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:36,270
drive your wine business to grow above the

688
00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:40,110
category wherever you're selling it. And that's really what you're trying to do, right? You

689
00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:43,630
can't necessarily control, you know, has the whole

690
00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:46,950
category for premium wine, you know, drop from,

691
00:42:47,350 --> 00:42:50,990
you know, 8% growth in the US to 2%

692
00:42:50,990 --> 00:42:54,830
or 1%. If it's growing at 1 or 2, you want to be growing your

693
00:42:54,830 --> 00:42:58,670
business 5 or 6%. Right? If it's growing at 8, you want to be growing

694
00:42:58,670 --> 00:43:01,750
at 12 or 15. Your ability to,

695
00:43:02,310 --> 00:43:05,750
to kind of master some of these more sophisticated

696
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:09,380
skills, but keep the magic of what makes your

697
00:43:09,380 --> 00:43:11,740
brand special and how you present it,

698
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:17,260
that's the magic of the wine business. And that's what interests me so much

699
00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:21,020
more about it than other businesses where it's

700
00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:24,700
just about the business skill and everything else and less about the storytelling.

701
00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:27,020
You did that all over the world.

702
00:43:29,020 --> 00:43:32,460
Did you find cultural differences

703
00:43:32,620 --> 00:43:35,340
when you tried to do that? Because, I mean, I can't imagine landing in a

704
00:43:35,340 --> 00:43:37,940
country for the first time. You sent over there, you have a budget Whatever it

705
00:43:37,940 --> 00:43:41,630
is. And you said, I got to build the team right now. I mean,

706
00:43:41,710 --> 00:43:45,550
that. That's a task. And then. Then balance after you get this team

707
00:43:45,550 --> 00:43:49,390
going. Yeah, I. I mean, I. There's differences,

708
00:43:49,630 --> 00:43:53,390
but there. I always like to say there's more similarities than

709
00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:57,150
differences. You know, a customer in China,

710
00:43:58,030 --> 00:44:01,830
a consumer in China actually has the same

711
00:44:01,830 --> 00:44:05,160
basic needs. You know what I mean? Yeah.

712
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,280
You know, the consumer in China is having food or

713
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,920
a banquet with their friends, and they want a wine that, you know,

714
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,720
that look that looks good for them and tastes good and goes well with

715
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:20,200
the food. Right. A customer in China wants to grow his wine

716
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,760
category faster than. Than the market.

717
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,760
They want to understand their customers and their shoppers and figure out

718
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,320
how to do that. So the basic principles don't change.

719
00:44:32,940 --> 00:44:36,660
I think your flexibility and cultural and

720
00:44:36,660 --> 00:44:40,380
speed in how you simplify things and get

721
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:44,180
people to get the team to work on the same thing and drive the heck

722
00:44:44,180 --> 00:44:47,740
out of it really fast. I think that's a little

723
00:44:47,740 --> 00:44:51,340
bit of management magic. That can be

724
00:44:51,340 --> 00:44:55,060
special, but the basics don't change. Do you ever

725
00:44:55,060 --> 00:44:58,780
read something? One of the things I've been doing

726
00:44:58,780 --> 00:45:01,580
since I've sold the company is just reading as much as I can to see

727
00:45:01,580 --> 00:45:05,200
what people are thinking or doing. And sometimes I just go, that is it.

728
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,760
You are wrong. I mean, that is. That is not it, my friend.

729
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,480
So either you've never sold anything in your life, or you haven't been in the

730
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,280
streets, or you're just reading books and trying to come up with a reason, but

731
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,040
you sometimes just go, no, that isn't what it happens. No, it

732
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,840
happens all the time. And sometimes I see a wine brand make

733
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,360
a change on a label or a product, and I'm also saying,

734
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,160
no, that's not. That's. That. That's not true to your

735
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,410
brand. That's not really where you want to go. Do you remember Thrifty

736
00:45:33,810 --> 00:45:37,610
Drugs? Yes. They were here, and they were

737
00:45:37,610 --> 00:45:41,250
all over the country, but they were prolific in California. And my dad actually

738
00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:44,050
sort of competed against them a little bit with his pharmacy chain. But

739
00:45:45,010 --> 00:45:48,730
one of the greatest pieces of advice that I've ever heard anybody give to

740
00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:51,330
anybody was the thrifty buyer.

741
00:45:52,370 --> 00:45:55,730
Told Mike Houlihan, who founded Barefoot Sellers,

742
00:45:56,770 --> 00:46:00,590
I want to see your label. If there's somebody walking

743
00:46:00,590 --> 00:46:03,510
down the aisle, I need to see it. I forgot how many paces away.

744
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:08,070
I need to be able to pick that bottle out and know of it where

745
00:46:08,070 --> 00:46:11,710
I'm. I need to know what I'm looking at when I'm this far away. From

746
00:46:11,710 --> 00:46:15,110
it when I walk down the aisle. And he said,

747
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:18,830
that's what I did. I went home and I invented barefoot

748
00:46:18,830 --> 00:46:22,550
sellers with this barefoot on the label and the toes and the in the

749
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:26,340
inks thing. He goes, the thing is Thrifty never

750
00:46:26,340 --> 00:46:29,860
bought. Now, but

751
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:34,340
building on what you're saying is 100% right. And

752
00:46:34,340 --> 00:46:38,180
we actually did research at Coke and we did the same research

753
00:46:39,540 --> 00:46:42,660
when I went to treasury that more than

754
00:46:42,660 --> 00:46:46,420
85% of the time, the purchase

755
00:46:46,660 --> 00:46:50,490
decision of a wine buyer happens right there at the

756
00:46:50,490 --> 00:46:53,650
shelf or at the menu

757
00:46:54,130 --> 00:46:57,890
or on a device. Right. So is your product

758
00:46:58,050 --> 00:47:01,730
there? Is it represented the right way? You know, how

759
00:47:01,730 --> 00:47:05,530
is your execution at the point of purchase on the, you know,

760
00:47:05,530 --> 00:47:08,970
on the device, in the restaurant, at the grocery

761
00:47:08,970 --> 00:47:12,370
store? And once you realize that and you gear up

762
00:47:12,770 --> 00:47:16,570
your company and business for that and

763
00:47:16,570 --> 00:47:19,730
that becomes the most important, you know, one of the most important things you do

764
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:23,570
in addition to the product and the storytelling, again, that's where

765
00:47:23,570 --> 00:47:27,210
the magic happens. So that fits right in. Packaging is

766
00:47:27,210 --> 00:47:30,570
so key to not only, you know,

767
00:47:31,210 --> 00:47:34,730
communicate what's important to your brand, but to get noticed.

768
00:47:34,890 --> 00:47:38,530
And, and not only the packaging, but when you get that bottle up

769
00:47:38,530 --> 00:47:42,210
there, do you have two or three facings? You know, is it eye level? You

770
00:47:42,210 --> 00:47:45,530
know, I mean, all those things play in. But when you have that

771
00:47:45,690 --> 00:47:49,530
knowledge that, you know, the consumer and shopper

772
00:47:49,850 --> 00:47:53,450
make the decision right there, if they can see it and

773
00:47:53,530 --> 00:47:56,450
they understand it and they want to buy it, then they'll do it. And if

774
00:47:56,450 --> 00:47:59,610
they don't and it's not there or it can't be seen, forget it.

775
00:48:00,730 --> 00:48:04,370
Fascinating. We're out of time and I

776
00:48:04,370 --> 00:48:06,490
have. We need to get the second page.

777
00:48:09,210 --> 00:48:11,810
Now. That's fine. Well, let me check the flights and see if I can get

778
00:48:11,810 --> 00:48:15,180
out to see you tonight. Yeah, I'd love to have you. We. I'll give you

779
00:48:15,180 --> 00:48:18,940
the end of the table there and you can have your own, your own audience.

780
00:48:18,940 --> 00:48:22,220
But I'm looking forward to, yeah, I'm looking forward to sharing

781
00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:26,140
tonight with these, with this gang. And

782
00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:30,140
I see what I thought about was that episode of

783
00:48:30,940 --> 00:48:34,700
Twilight Zone where Burgess Meredith is, you know, the bookworm and, and

784
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:38,420
he's, he thinks he's. That's all he wants. And he would be like to be

785
00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:41,660
left alone. And then, you know, the end of the world comes and he's left

786
00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:45,420
alone and he with in front of a library, but his

787
00:48:45,420 --> 00:48:49,140
glasses broke so he couldn't read and so he had

788
00:48:49,140 --> 00:48:52,180
nothing to share. You know, he didn't share with anybody, anybody. But now he can't

789
00:48:52,180 --> 00:48:55,500
read. So I thought to myself, you know, what greater

790
00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:59,780
gift it would be, is to be able to share your

791
00:48:59,780 --> 00:49:02,220
experiences of wine and culture.

792
00:49:03,420 --> 00:49:06,900
Because that's all you really get when it comes down to it is like you

793
00:49:06,900 --> 00:49:10,700
get your friends, you get your family a glass of wine, and you know,

794
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:14,260
that's kind of all you need, you know, because eventually the. The

795
00:49:14,260 --> 00:49:18,100
experiences are what form you and who you make. Make you who you

796
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:21,460
are. It's all about the experience and the sharing. Yeah,

797
00:49:21,460 --> 00:49:25,300
absolutely. Look forward to sharing with you again on

798
00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:28,780
the show as well as if we're ever cross paths.

799
00:49:30,060 --> 00:49:33,180
Where are you at right now? I'm in Houston, Texas, right now.

800
00:49:34,550 --> 00:49:37,350
Hey, you know what? Before you get off, there's a woman out there.

801
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:42,550
It's called Shankville. Shankoville. Oh, yeah, I saw your show. Yeah, I

802
00:49:42,550 --> 00:49:46,390
saw that show. I gotta. I gotta get out and see her. Yeah, come on.

803
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:50,349
I think it's a Houston landing point. Yeah, yeah, come on

804
00:49:50,349 --> 00:49:53,590
out and we'll do dinner and then you can go see her and.

805
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:57,990
No, you have to join me because you gotta hear the story firsthand. This is.

806
00:49:58,150 --> 00:50:01,830
You already heard it. It's fascinating. No, definitely,

807
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:03,830
definitely. We'll do that. That's a date.